From Childhood Best Friends to Top of their Fields with Greg Genske

23:44You know, understanding how you might get in fight or flight, the amygdala takes over, you know, and, you know, I get to my woo-woo practices, right? You know, focus on your breathing, you know, focus on visualization before you get in. Really try to find a way to make yourself comfortable in an uncomfortable situation and surrender to the process. that I'm going to be engaged in this negotiation. You know, there may be tough moments. There may be hard words. But I'm committed to this process because I understand negotiating is a part of life, as you said, in all aspects of our life. So I think the psychology is really important.

24:18And there's really no substitute for immaculate preparation for a negotiation. And what I mean by that is just not, not just understanding what, you know, what you want, what I want, what I want to accomplish, what I think, what are my reasons. But you really put yourself in the shoes of the person on the other side of the table to really understand what's motivating them. Who are their bosses? What expectations are their bosses putting on them? What are their business needs? What does their balance sheet look like? What does their income statement look like? If you're negotiating a playing contract, what does their roster look like, their farm system?

24:54Really being the expert, which is critically important so that you have good judgment in there, but it's also critically important so you can establish with the other side. I'm an expert. I came in here as an expert and I'm sensitive to your position and point of view. I understand where you're coming from. Immaculate preparation because I want to ask you a couple things about this because I, I, my, now that you're saying it, right? Like my most successful friends, I think now that I'm just listening to you, I think they're, I'm talking about regardless of industry, like entrepreneur, real estate developers, like they're like the best negotiators.

25:33And they actually, or even the best politicians that I've worked with, you know, probably you and I were talking last night about a few, right? Which is pretty, pretty cool stuff. They're actually unbelievable. They, they spend actually almost as much of their time on your position in your situation than they do their own. Like I think of someone that I think is like a master politician, whether you like him or not, it doesn't matter. This is not about his political beliefs. But I think most people would say Barack Obama was an exemplary communicator. If you go watch his style, he already knew what points you were going to make.

26:07So he could actually frame your point in a way that served him. He wasn't caught off guard by what you were going to say or what you were going to think or what your point of view was or what your position was. He knew it better than you did, which made him unbelievable. So is that what you mean by the preparation on the other side. Like if I'm negotiating a real estate deal with you, I should, I should know more about you, the house, your background, other properties, your own debt, you have, et cetera, et cetera. That gives me strength knowing your position, your vulnerabilities and your strengths.

26:35A hundred percent. Okay. And, and again, it's, it's about, as you say, with, with president Obama being able to articulate his positions in the most meaningful way because he anticipates and understands the other side's arguments, where they're coming from. It's also critically important. You're creating a rapport with the person you're negotiating with. They need to understand that you're an expert and that they understand your point of view and that we're deal makers together. We're trying to do this together. You can count on me. I've demonstrated to you that I'm an expert in this space. And I've demonstrated to you that I'm also sensitive to your point of view and your position.

27:12Interesting. And I want to make a deal. You want to make a deal. I'm thinking of, I'll give meat to everybody politically. the best communicator ever seen as a president was Reagan. And Reagan's strength was he was actually a Democrat before he was a Republican. And what did that give him? It gave him the strength of understanding the belief system and the positions of the other side. Better than most of them did. He could articulate why being a progressive and why being a liberal could work because he was one at one time. And I think a lot of time people get so ingrained in their own position, like even in their marriage, that they don't spend enough time in the other person's position or trying to get your kids to do the things you want.

27:48Actually put yourself in their shoes. Why are they behaving this way? Why do they think this way? I never thought about that before, but my most successful friends are actually the best at negotiating and understanding the other person's position. Speaking of someone who I think is good at that, by the way, had an agency, sold it for a bunch of money, got out of that business, and then decides to go partner and do it again with VaynerSports. AJ's a stud. I've heard so many things about AJ. but why Gary V and why AJ? Like what, what do they bring? Cause we kind of turn the corner into like modern business, the modern athlete.

28:22What did they bring that you thought could benefit you as opposed to just going out on your own? Yeah. Yeah. So you referenced that. I had another agency that had a lot of success and I admitted to you last night. I think I sold too early, too early. Yeah. I sold too early and ended up in business with partners. I wouldn't have chosen under normal circumstances. So when I was on my own and being approached with lots of different opportunities, wasn't interested in joining like a big agency, I'm more entrepreneurial. I was interested in creating something and I had a really clear vision, right?

28:56I felt like I did a really good job at my last agency at educating athletes, which I think is not that common, unfortunately, in the sports agent world. I did an excellent job at negotiating amazing contracts. How many athletes total do you think you've repped? just to give him an idea because because it's every sport it's ufc it's nfl it's mlb i think he leaned mlb but just in just give him some context of how many athletes roughly yeah over 22 years it's got to be uh two three thousand okay bro so when i say he's the expert at negotiating in communication i'm not being nice to my childhood best friend okay so keep going why them you you'd done it you want to be entrepreneurial so my my focus was i wanted to have i want to create the best agency in the world.

29:38And in order for it to be that for me, it needed to offer everything an agent needs. Not necessarily limited to what I do as a sports lawyer, veteran sports agent, but everything that I viewed as being necessary. It had to be authentic, meaning it can't be like a lot of agencies where they sell a lot of glitz and glamour and they don't really deliver, right? It's smoke and mirrors. I know that. Yeah. So authenticity, best in class, these things were really important. And then really important to me too, was I wanted to be in business with really good people who I respect and who are not just extremely talented, but people who I respect and people I want to be around.

30:16You know, I'm fortunate. Like I get to make decisions professionally where I just follow my passions. And for me, that was important. And, you know, so I started first with Tom Hicks as my partner, the late, great Tom Hicks, rest his soul. And - Owner of the Rangers and many other things. Dallas Stars, Liverpool, et cetera. Just a wonderful man. A great mentor as well. And I started just creating a foundation of what I wanted the agency to look like, what I thought it could be, and what it needed to be really to be the best. And then I had the good fortune of being introduced to A.J. Vaynerchuk, Gary Vaynerchuk at the Super Bowl in Miami in 2020.

30:58Okay. and you know i didn't know really much about gary v the whole thing you know it's not my area wasn't my area specialty i know a lot more about it now because of because of my great partners and i was blown away so i looked at a lot of stuff on social media all that and i had an expectation going in to meet with them and it was not at all what i expected what i what i was met with were truly wonderful caring people, extremely passionate about sports, extremely savvy in business, and just this tremendous drive and energy. Okay. I thought you were going to say their digital presence. The digital presence was huge.

31:35That's why I took the meeting, but what I got was so much more. Got it. Okay. Right. I got just really sophisticated business people who had a real strong passion and just really good people. So we vibed. You vibed. We vibed hard at this, hit it off, you know, to steal Gary's expression. with us, it was one plus one equals 11. You have my background doing billions of dollars in contracts, sports law professor, all of that. And then you have this amazing empire that Gary and AJ had built that offered so much to athletes in terms of social media presence, branding, marketing advice, partnership, entrepreneurship, all of these things.

32:17And what they had that I shared as well was a desire really to teach first and foremost with our client base. Meaning the athletes actually learn something that they can carry with them the rest of their life and not just do deals. When I, when I meet, you know, in recruiting meeting with an athlete, I said, you know, I'm not for everyone, right? I'm not going to let you just sit in the back seat. Like I'm here to teach you, right? In my opinion, when you look back on your career, you're only going to be satisfied if you feel like you made the best decisions and you can only do that if you're informed.

32:45There's a lesson there. I want to stay on that. I don't think enough business people position themselves as a teacher. I mean that like I'm talking about regardless of industry. Like it's something that maybe was in the water when we grew up. But like I've used that. First off, I consider myself a learner, number one. I'm still learning and I'm curious. But like for me in business, over the years, I was always trying to transfer information and skill to people. And like enough people, why can't I scale my business? It's because you're not a teacher. You're a motivator. You inspire people. You could even get stuff done, but you don't teach.

33:19And so because of the fact that you don't think of yourself as a teacher, you're never transferring enough information or skills or belief to scale anything. So it's a huge lesson, bro, what you just said. It's amazing we both landed in the same spot on that because I do it to scale and bring value. But you're doing it really that this athlete, because so many athletes end up broke when their career's over, right? You're doing it. So this dude leaves you, as Jay-Z would say, a businessman, right? They're just not athletes who have done deals. Let me ask you this, because I just personally want to know this.

33:52What have you learned from the, you said Tom Hicks earlier, right? You've been this guy, I know where you grew up, so neither one of us was prepared to walk in a room and talk to billionaires about parting with hundreds of millions of dollars, right? So someone right now is going, man, I'd love to be able to close this sale while I'm working on a house, and that's a big deal. So you're going in to a billionaire or a group of people and saying, you are going to part with, let's just take MLB for a minute. Manny Ramirez is one of your clients, right? We could name a bunch of them, but let's just take, you're going to part with hundreds of millions of dollars.

34:24And you're going back to these same owners collectively over time, getting to part with billions of dollars at some point. What do you know about those people that we should know? Like, how do they think? How do they operate differently than us? Or are they all just very different people? So when I started the podcast, it seemed like I had to figure everything out on my own. Scripts, setup, filming, schedules, logos, online store, marketing. It was totally overwhelming. Every day seemed to have a new decision that I needed to make, and I didn't have the answers for it. So finding the right online tool not only helps you, but it simplifies everything, and it can be a game changer.

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36:20Rowe wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have the lowest-cost options out there. I use this, and you should too. You can join over 1.5 million other people who trusted Rowe. Here's how you do it. Go to Rowe.co.com to see if you qualify. That's R-O dot C-O slash my let to get started on Rho. Go to Rho.co forward slash safety for box warning and full safety information about GLP-1 medications. I do think they're all very different people, but I think there are certain traits that you see in common. Okay. I think that they've gotten to that position for a couple of things, or a couple of reasons rather.

36:52One reason is they're not afraid to take a chance, right? They got into that position in life because they're able to recognize opportunities and not being afraid to take the risk necessary to see it to fruition. So that's an important thing. Sounds familiar with you with going into the sports business, but go ahead. A hundred percent. Yeah. And so, and they are deal makers. Okay. And then the other thing to keep in mind is they didn't end up in that position because they weren't hugely passionate about sports. And in particular, the sport of the team they're leading. And so it's critically important to understand those things.

37:26And as we talked about earlier, critically important to approach it from a position of expertise and as a dealmaker. I'm trying to create a win-win. How does somebody who, by the way, I did that too. I got young. You know that my first business, I was in the financial business. Yes. And I was young. And I remember thinking, if I don't address the fact that I'm young, why would people give me their money to invest or buy insurance? And so it's so crazy that we landed in the same conclusions even though we parted ways. and I remember thinking, I have to just frankly be better at this than everybody else.

38:00I have to almost be like a prodigy. I've got to position myself when I walk in this room as an expert. And I would actually flip the fact that I was young to my advantage. I would tell them, look, I know I'm probably younger than the last guy that was in here. And so because I know that coming in, I've done my homework 100 times more than them. I've dug deeper. So just give someone advice in general. How important is it to position yourself and actually truly become an expert at what you do, to separate yourself from all of the marketplace, all of the noise out there? That you are right on the money.

38:33And similarly, whether it was a trial lawyer at 29 years old, in court, you don't see many of those. Right, right, right. And I had a great mentor who taught me how to really lean into the judge, lean into people, be overly humble, but at the same time demonstrate a higher level of preparation and expertise than everybody else, but deferential at the same time. Remember, his advice was let the judge feel like he's mentoring you. Otherwise, he'll be kind of put off by the fact that this young kid is in here thinking he's the smartest guy in the courtroom. And I think that was true early in my career as an agent as well.

39:11So as you said, it's I need to be the expert. I need to – I'm going to have to prove myself above and beyond. I can't just rely on – I've been doing this for 20 years, 30 years. Like you hear that all the time, that refrain, which by the way, don't ever do that. I don't care much experience you have. If you've got to sell yourself based on how long you've been doing it, come up with better arguments. Very good. I agree. But yeah, you've got to be the expert. And that only comes through actually putting in the work. right and you know go back to you and i and you know the discipline you instilled in me and that maybe we helped each other with i think that was critical yeah i do too do you think um these these athletes when they come in and they see you what makes a ufc fighter choose you because the reason i say this is everyone out you're probably listening this is selling something right right and so the the separator with the athlete i get the separator with the owner but now the athlete because i know what it's like even in my business i get i've had we were talking last night i've been with the two big agencies out there and i get pitched by agents often to do different things and so i'm you're not the only rodeo how does someone separate themselves with like like one of the athletes or a client is it your expertise level or are you working on building rapport with them and connecting, knowing their mom's name, knowing is it a whole package of stuff?

40:35How do you do it? It is all of the above, right? And whether it's a UFC athlete, a baseball athlete, a football athlete, a pro surfer, we're trying to do those things, right? This relationship you have with an agent athlete, this is incredibly personal. You know, you're creating a real deep relationship and a bond that's probably going to last decades. And it's probably going to be very expansive over many facets and aspects of their life. I think as an initial matter, you want to cover the nuts and bolts, which is I'm going to educate you on how to be a professional athlete, how to be a business person, how to manage your brand, how deals work, how they're negotiated.

41:16What are the rules of your sports, the CBA? I'm going to make you an expert on this, not because I need you to do anything. I'm going to execute. I'm going to have strong opinions. You and I are going to be partners together and make decisions together. Yes. And I want to make it very clear at the first meeting that you are going to be in the best hands when it comes to negotiating your contracts, setting a business plan for the course of your career. And then with all of the resources we have at Vayner with Gary and AJ at amazing entrepreneurial advice, helping you with your brand, finding the right business partners.

41:52And our goal here is to be real partners with our athletes. And I mean that not just in terms of our partnership and the player-agent relationship and negotiating deals, but also we want to be business partners together. We want to find – I want every one of our athletes to be able to take advantage of this magical short period of their life where they have access to incredible opportunities. I want to help you identify those. I want to use our team to put your brand in a position where you're going to be attractive to the things that you're attracted to. And then find ways to be owners of companies together.

42:26See, I think the fact that you position yourself as a teacher is an unspoken way of saying I'm an expert. And I don't think enough salespeople, negotiators, marketing people assume the position of teacher. Because when you do that, you've essentially, without having to tell me, told me you're an expert, I'm going to teach you some things. We're partners in this. This vernacular, this language has nothing to do with baseball. It has nothing to do with just negotiating baseball contracts. It has everything to do with connecting with people and separating yourself in the market in what you do, whether you're a realtor or you own a dry cleaners or you're selling protein supplements.

43:02When you teach people, like my business partner, Andy Frisella, has, I believe, the best supplement brand in the world. It's called First Form. They're a behemoth. they spend most of their time bro teaching you different things about what to put in your body and how to they already assume they're the best they assume they're the expert not enough of you are what happens when you listen to podcasts you guys someone's in a particular industry your job is to pull out the things that apply to you then there's another thing that applies with you Greg that I really want you to talk about because I've bragged on you so much right but I want you to talk about But life has not been that easy along the way for you either.

43:42And you've been public about this a little bit. And I want to address it because I want to give people hope. Because people delete themselves easy in life. They eliminate themselves. They think they're disqualified. Man, I just went through a divorce. So I'm toast. Or you know what? I got this thing I'm doing on the side that I know I shouldn't be doing. I'm never going to be successful. Whatever it is. In your case, you said earlier, we kind of started to part ways as you saw it. and I'll take your word for it. Maybe you started like the party life a little bit. Yes. And I was afraid of that life because of what it did to my dad.

44:14Right. You came from a normal, well-adjusted house. Your dad's the best. And Carol, who just passed away, rest her soul, was such a wonderful woman and so important in my life, by the way. Thank you. So important in my life. And very important for some years there. Woo. And we parted ways. Yes. And then, but that process for you over the time, this is what I want you to be hearing if you're listening. Okay, guys. You begin to have tremendous success in your life in spite of this thing that's kind of growing on the side, which is your dealings with alcohol. Yes. And so this is what most people don't understand.

44:54You can have an issue with something and still be succeeding in spite of it. I used to think, my dad's not an alcoholic. He's not on the streets. Right. He got up every day and went to work. he produced every single day addiction in life you can still be winning in spite of it so you would you were becoming what i would call like a highly functional i think safe to say alcoholic at some point in your life you had to make a very difficult decision you've been public about and i the reason i want you to share it is a lot of times in life the next level of life is not some key you don't have it's not an addition it's actually subtraction it's taking away something from your game that's holding you back.

45:34It's thoughts, it's scrolling Instagram, it's gambling, it's porn, it's drinking, it's whatever it is. And in your case, you were winning to a certain point, having a certain level of happiness, but on the side, this alcohol thing was starting to get the better of you. What made you make the decision to stop and then what did it do for you? Yeah, I had a long relationship with alcohol, began in high school, had a wonderful time. You know, for the most of this journey, it was wonderful. It was fun for all the reasons people like to drink, enjoy themselves, have a good time. But for me, it didn't stop in high school.

46:07You know, it didn't stop in college. It didn't stop in law school. It didn't stop as a trial attorney. So it was part of my life that just continued, right? And, you know, I continued to have success at what I wanted to do, whether it was trying cases, winning cases, you know, graduating from law school, doing triathlons. I was able to kind of do it all. at the same time and, you know, have a drinking life as well. And it's something that kind of worked until it didn't, you know, as I got a little bit older, I realized that it was competing for my attention with the things that really mattered.

46:39Wow. You know, and, and I knew, I knew that life was bigger and better than that. And I also was really focused on continuing to get better as a person. And I didn't know that I could do that with the bondage of, you know, a habit of drinking or, you know, whatever it was. And it became clear to me for health reasons, all kinds of reasons, to be a better father, to really just to be better in life, you know, engage and to continue to progress. I wanted to be somebody who got better as I got older. And I didn't think that was going to be possible if I continued drinking and I realized I needed to put it into it.

47:16How long has it been? Nine? Nine years. Congratulations. Thank you. That's super cool, man. I'm really proud of you. And the reason I wanted you to touch on it, because I know it's not something you want to talk about all the time, is there's someone listening right now. There's more than someone. And the next level of their life is not adding some new tactic or strategy. It's like, hey, you know what it is, whatever it is. I think if you're listening or watching right now, you know what it is. That's the thing you're doing that no longer serves you. It doesn't serve you anymore. It doesn't belong in your life anymore.

47:45And the next level of your life is getting rid of that thing. Maybe it's a relationship. Maybe it's a person. Maybe it's a pattern of behavior. maybe it's an addiction but that next level is it's elimination not addition and that's why i wanted you to to talk about it so i appreciate that you did no uh very happy to and yeah i would i would say that to anybody out there dealing with any sort of addiction it's absolutely something you can address it's absolutely something you can change it's not easy you know it's not easy for a lot of people and i'm not going to say it was super easy for me it wasn't um but there is such a better life around the corner if you're able to deal with it i'm a big believer of hitting things head on.

48:21Yeah, you are. The other thing about you that's different than when we were kids, and I want you to talk about this part of your life, because I think success leaves clues. I think there are just things people do, and maybe even some of them, a lot of athletes do them unconsciously. They're not even aware of why they're great. They're just great. But in your case, what you weren't when we were kids, we were both, I think we both had this, we were both a little insecure. We weren't the most popular, confident, stud dudes, yet we were in the middle somewhere. right yeah i would say but you're intense now bro like there's an intensity to you i told you at dinner last time i'm like bro you're wound up you're intense right and so i think a lot of times you have to know your tendency in life my tendency is not to i'm not going to be the guy you got to worry about who's not showing up to work right who's going to relax who's going to flinch that's not my thing now some people they have to be keep prodded and pushed that ain't me that ain't you my challenge is turning it off my challenge is recuperation rest etc we're talking last night we both reached the same place also in our meditation life yeah right and so tell them about why that's been so important the part of your life where you empty your mind because your mind's racing all the time you're brilliant you got cases you got deals you're negotiating so part of your the clues your success is left is your meditation practice talk about that a little bit yeah and And it goes hand in hand with when I quit drinking.

49:50Really? It goes hand in hand. I wanted to evolve as a person. So I leaned into the things that didn't seem comfortable to me, yoga, meditation, spirituality, relationship with God. These things that I kind of avoided in the other life, I realized that that was my answer, right? That that was my evolution. Wow. So I really leaned into it. And it took a while, but I think I mentioned this to you last night. After a few months, I was surfing on Kauai in Hanalei Bay. And I had not had a drink in, I don't know, three months. And I just realized that I was elated. I was with my son in the water, realized we'd been in the water for five hours.

50:29Wow. And I was like, when was the last time in my life that I was so engaged in a passion that I just lost track of time and in pure enjoyment? And I was like, I remember us playing wiffle ball in the backyard for eight hours straight, things like that. I realized I hadn't really had true enjoyment like that since I was a kid. And that was kind of my spiritual awakening, you know, right there in beautiful Hanalei Bay. And I realized I was on the right path. So I've really stayed committed to my path in meditation and yoga. And I know you and I share the meditation thing. You know, I meditate at least twice a day.

51:03You can go four hours. That was during one period of time. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, usually it's two meditations a day, you know, more 30 to 40 minutes. And also your practice, you have stuff outside of business like surfing. Yes. Tell them what that does for you and then how many surf trips you do a year. Yeah. No, I'm really passionate about surfing. I love it. And I love the fact it's something I get to do with my kids who both love it too. And we're getting ready to go to another surf trip to Fiji. I'm really excited about in a couple of weeks. But for me, surfing is meditation, right? It's one of those really pure practices.

51:38I mean, not only are you in nature, you're in the ocean. You're in, what I would say is our natural element. We're there in it and a part of it, which is, I think, so key. But in addition, I mean, the essence of the sport is trying to get in touch with that energy that's flowing through the water. Right? It's energy flowing through the water, creating the wave. And the whole point of it is to get in sync with that energy and be able to ride the wave. Really good. And that's what I love about it is you can only do about it, you only do it when you're in flow state. Right? You can only get in sync with that energy when your mind is clear.

52:10Yeah. And I can tell you, every time I can tell you what I'm thinking about when I'm trying to catch a wave, I wiped out. Which happens to me a lot, by the way. And then every time I have a great ride, I can't tell you anything that was in my head. I can only tell you what I saw. That's awesome. What a great lesson. That's why I love the sport so much. The reason I pointed out is to, guys, you've got to have something that you love outside of your passion, of your business. You've got to have something that empties your mind, that fills your cup as you're pouring into people all the time. for him it's meditation and surfing and his family and for me i don't have the surfing thing my surfing's golf you know he's better at surfing than i am golf but it's my and when i'm playing great golf i ain't thinking about swing thoughts exactly what you said i'm actually in flow i'm just executing to talk a little bit about we we i would be in big trouble if i have the best sports agent in the world and i don't talk about the current state of sports right so i'm uh you know that i'm on the board of the national football foundation so i'm involved in college sports quite a bit now that whole world bro is completely changed so I just want your old like what do you think of this whole first off are these guys now all is branding super important for every young person to be paying attention to whether an athlete or not and how do you feel about this like name image and likeness stuff all of the wild west that's happening is it net net good I'm sure as an agent you like it and where's it going to go and what needs to happen I think it's great I think it's wonderful.

53:39And I've been teaching sports law for 10 years and watching the progression of getting towards freedom, opening up for NIL, pay-per-play, all the things that are happening for amateur athletes. And from a legal standpoint, it was clear it was going to happen. The policy the NCAA had in place was just illegal. And they suffered loss after loss in the courts. And it was heading towards this conclusion, which I think is the right conclusion from a legal standpoint. I also think it's the right conclusion just kind of from a business capitalist standpoint. I think it's absolutely absurd to think that athletes who contribute such tremendous value to these billion-dollar industries can't participate in the financial windfall of those industries is absurd.

54:24I don't know how as a society we ever got to a point in thinking that was okay because it's not okay. Right. It's just not okay. But I think perhaps, and I mentioned this to you last night, I think perhaps one of the greatest benefits that comes out of opening this up for NIL is it also got rid of the NCAA restrictions that legislated out the truly ethical sports lawyers and agents from servicing these young athletes who really need competent representation. And we saw with all the restrictions that the NCAA had in the past, it created a void. That void got filled, right? It got filled by people who weren't qualified, who weren't scrupulous, who were self-serving, and who hurt players.

55:05Like you see the Reggie Bush example, and there's several of them. Terrible. And I'm hoping we don't see those ever again now. And the reason why is because now a young athlete who has real business on their plate is able to get in touch with VaynerSports, AJ Vaynerchuk, Mike McCartney, myself, or other competent agents at other agencies and really get educated, get great advice, help develop a business plan, help evaluate different opportunities available in college, what it's going to look like professionally. And I think that is invaluable. It's that, that's, you know, it's kind of, it's why it's in the constitution, a right to representation.

55:43Okay. What about, so now that we're, let me, let me ask you the hard question. They are those supposed to be student athletes. Correct. Okay. So my rub, my rub is not that guys get paid and ladies get paid. I want them to be paid. I think it's great. I think if I built a brand and I was a 19 year old and I decided I was going to be a professional surfer or a realtor and I can make money with that brand, I should make money with that brand. 1000%. but they are student athletes. And so my rub on it is it's gone like crazy Wild West, meaning as I understand it, and I'm sure I misunderstand some of it, but as I understand it, they can freely move whenever and wherever they want.

56:23Even an NBA player or an MLB player, you're negotiating them a contract. They've got to be where they are for two or three or four or five years, right? Whereas the college guys, it seems like they can just leave, right? And then I'm thinking, well, is that fair the other way to the institution who pours in resources into them and they can just bail? And is it fair that this kid, I know how credits transfer. Is anybody going to graduate if they're at four schools in four years playing football? And so what about that part of it? I understand why you like the part you like, and I do too. And I'd like it even more if I were in your business so I could participate in it.

56:57But what about that part of them also? Or should we just say, hey, look, some of these guys aren't students. They're just not. But they are going to college, right? They are at a university. So should they, and I know you're not going to answer this, but I'm going to make you try. Should we at least eventually land in the middle where you have to stay and honor your time at the school for some period? Or there's a consequence if you don't? What do you think of that, Mr. Sports Agent? Well, I think you raise a lot of great points. Oh, here we go. Right? The first point that you raise and I'll bring up is like, are they athletes or are they not athletes?

57:32I think we broached that question long before NIL opened up, frankly. Okay. Right? With practices at a lot of the top athletic universities would cause you to ask that question, frankly, before NIL popped up. I agree. Right? I don't know that this has worsened the problem that players get paid now and are able to do NIL marketing or pay for play. So that's my first contention with it. I don't know that it really changed. That aspect of it has always been this struggle, like what's more important, the athletics or the academic? I agree with you. I want to live in a world where they're both equally important, where both things are available.

58:08That's the first point. The other point, the free mobility of players, which as an agent, I always love free mobility. I love free markets. I love open markets. I love leverage. I'm not going to lie, right? Of course. But I think that observation should be focused on the fact that this is still pretty new. I would also say that I don't think we've seen players getting their share of the revenue that we're going to see them get. I think you're going to see amateur players making more money. I still think that it's a system that's in progress and trying to be figured out. And a lot of the conferences are trying to formalize it, figure it out.

58:40And I think as that happens, we'll start seeing things like a collective bargaining agreement that we see in the NFL. You do. I think we'll see that. Yeah, I think you need an operating agreement to kind of keep the institutions honest among one another and have a fair system between them and the players. I think we end up with that. And it probably ends up with a system where there are contracts for periods of years, like you see in pro sports as well. So I think we get there. We're just not there yet. We're still kind of in the Wild West, I would say. Okay. I hope we get there sooner than later because, again, I'm great with them making money.

59:13I want them to make money. I think it's crazy that they wouldn't make money. I just also think if you're a student – my debate isn't whether or not they're athletes. My debate is whether these guys are students anymore. And when I say guys, I'm also talking about female sports too. I mean people when I say that. All right. We don't have that much more time left. By the way, this has been good. We haven't gone all over the place today, which is really, really good, like I knew we would. If you could go back and there's these two kids in a backyard playing wiffle ball, and there's a little Eddie Milet there, a little Greg Ginsky there, and you could give advice to those kids that are now today doing it.

59:52So there's an Ed Milet in someone's backyard with his best friend right now, doing something, playing catch or whatever. And they're a little 10, 11-year-old little kid, boy or girl. And they said, well, you're sitting next to your childhood, buddy, and it turned out good for the two of you. What advice would you speak into the lives of those two young people right now? Just overall advice or counsel or a message to them. What would you say to them? I think there's a couple of things that you and I are great examples of, and our friendship at that young age is a great example of, which is follow your passion.

1:00:24We both followed our passions. We really, really did. Yeah, we did. Know what you're good at, right? Know what you're good at, know what your strengths are, know what you can contribute to other people. Something you and I also do. We draw the intrinsic value in our work based on how we impact other people's lives. Critically important. And then the other thing you and I had, you taught me more and I had with you. And then later in my life is stay disciplined. Nothing comes without the work. That's like the perfect answer, by the way. I think I would give the identical answer. I think the second one's the one people miss.

1:01:05I think people go, yeah, that's what you're passionate about. I don't think enough people find something they're good at. Right. You know what I mean? I don't think most people do enough self-analysis and are aware enough of like, I'm so fortunate. Because I don't know that I intentionally did it. You did. I think I more stumbled. I failed out of baseball is really what happened, right? And then I'm like, why? You're a hell of a baseball player, Ed. Yeah, but I'm not like the guys you represent. But thank you for that. But then I was like, I then stumbled into like, okay, what am I good at? I am good at communicating.

1:01:38God gave me a nice, deep voice to use. I'm intense. I need something that has an element of competition in it. And I think you nailed it there with all of them. I would say that's what the two of us have in common is that you've also, we've taken advantage of what we're pretty good at doing. Would you agree? A hundred percent. Yeah. I said this when I started, man. This is a very surreal, last night dinner was surreal for me. You know what I mean? Even when I got back, I was like, wow, it was like a dream almost. Like, it's very rare. I want you to imagine this, you guys. You're so close when you're little and you kind of go a different direction.

1:02:15And then independent, he becomes what he's become. And then, you know, I've done okay too. It's just, it's such a great life story of what you've become. And I'm really proud of you. I mean that, bro. Thank you. Thank you. I'm really proud of you. You know what I'm most proud of? Thank you. After getting reconnected with you, you're who I'd hoped you were going to be when we were little boys as a man you're you're a good son to your parents man and and you're a wonderful dad and uh i see you getting a little like that's who i hoped you would be when we were little boys and you've grown into that and i'm that that means more to me than you'll know and i'm really proud of who you are thank you bro thank you well you watched us a little have a reunion here today i hope you all enjoyed it i told you it'd be a podcast like you've never heard before Where should they find you?

1:03:00Where do you want to find you? Online? Yeah, online, Instagram, VaynerSports. And Greg Ginsky on social, right? Yeah, at Greg Ginsky. Okay. He's growing his little social, you guys. I put a post out about him last night. I'm sure he picked up like three followers, so I'm excited for you. Thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, you guys, today was one of the most special podcasts I'd ever had a chance to do, and I appreciate you spending the time. I hope you got inspired. I hope you pulled lessons from it. I hope you follow Greg. And reconnect with your childhood, friends, if you've lost touch as well, because it's even better than you could imagine.

1:03:36Reach out to somebody you love today. God bless you. Max out.

1:03:42This is the Ed Marlin Show.

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