Habits of Highly Resilient People w/ Dr. Taryn Marie

26:51So if you want to become a Navy SEAL, if you want to win the National Spelling Bee, if you want to graduate from the Naval Academy, right, it's really great to be gritty because you're going to follow sort of a formulaic series of tests and then come to your outcome at the end. But we also know a lot of companies that were super gritty and still failed. Sure. Right? I mean, even the examples that I think come to mind for everyone, Blockbuster and BlackBerry, like, right, like they were super gritty. They were in it for the long haul. It's just that like the environment moved and changed around them.

27:30And so, you know, the opposite side of this is looking at how our environment is shifting and changing around us. Right. What are the disruptors? What's the volatility? Right. That's occurring. and to be able to kind of balance our goals and our determination and our grittiness with what's happening externally and to continue to check in and be in this constant moment of balance. By the way, that's brilliant because there is this, I think we're in a culture that really emphasizes grit all the time. It's really the thing, hustle culture, grind culture, grit culture, which by the way, without, you're probably not going to become very successful.

28:08So it's super critical. But I think often, like I've got a chance to play a lot of golf or previously with Wayne Gretzky over the years. It's definitely different sports. You can debate who the GOAT is. In hockey, there's really no debate. There's really not. It's really Wayne. He's the only person we quote. Right. Skate to where the puck is going. That's exactly right. And that's the exact point you're making, is that you can get so gritty. There's a lot of gritty players, but only one was great at skating to where the puck was going, and that's because he was doing it in an intelligent way. He wasn't just grinding, just gritty.

28:42and you're a million percent right is who I was thinking of initially and that exact quote. It's amazing that you read my mind on that. So what are some practices, habits, rituals, practices that people who tap into the resilient, I think I need to stop saying resilient people because you're saying people are resilient. It's people that tap into it, that express that part of themselves better. What are some of their normal habits or routines or rituals do you think? Yeah, overall. Yeah. So if we go back to the practice of vulnerability for a moment and just kind of unpack that and the vulnerability bias associated with that.

29:17So when I realized when I was interviewing hundreds of people about how they had effectively faced challenge, change and complexity and created a more productive outcome, I was incredibly convicted by the fact that one of those practices emerged as vulnerability. because I had thought going through something traumatic and difficult, like I'm just going to be invulnerable, right? I've got this like full like layer of shellac and I'm just going to like engage. And I know we don't like this word. I'm going to engage in perfection and nobody's going to see any flaws. And like, that's how I was living my life.

29:56And then when I realized that vulnerability was really the foundation to resilience, I thought, oh, my gosh, I get to change the way that I'm living. And so after sort of the word resilience, which you and I have delved into, I think vulnerability is the next most misunderstood kind of concept here. Because so often we think that vulnerability is like putting it all out there. Yeah. You know, showing everybody everything, being completely transparent, maybe even being self-deprecating or putting ourselves down like, you know, I'm in middle school again and I'm going to point out all the things that I'm uncomfortable with before anybody else does.

30:38Yeah. Right? And that's not vulnerability. Okay. Vulnerability is about allowing our inside self, our thoughts, our feelings, our experience to as closely as possible match the outside self that we share with the world. Hmm. Right? That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So you know what we call that in psychology, right? We call that congruence. Yeah? Because when our inside self, our thoughts, feelings, and experiences is dramatically dissimilar from the outside self that we're sharing with the world, there's two things that are happening in that moment of challenge that are really detrimental.

31:18The first one is we're really running two different operating systems at the same time. Right. Inside our human body. I've got what's really going on for me vulnerably, honestly. And then I've got the facade that I'm trying to keep up and share with the world. You know, so now in a moment of challenge where we need our resilience, we're actually burning energy, energetic capital twice as fast because we've got one self running in parallel to another self that we're sharing with the world. So bringing those two selves together as closely as we can into a sense of congruence, that's not only going to save energy.

31:57The second part of that is when we're able to be vulnerable, and we don't have to be vulnerable with everyone, right? But with the people and in the circumstances that we believe will be safe to express at that next level, when people really know what's going on with us, then we get the support, the information, the resources that we most need in those moments of adversity. you know what's a really interesting point when I'm doing the show I always reflect on myself and one of the things I always get a lot of credit for and I don't know that I should is vulnerability like wow you're really vulnerable like I'm surprised that you share the things you share because you don't have to or whatever but there's another part of me that thinks as I've gotten older I'd like to have more authentic vulnerability which is what you just described.

32:47And I don't know that I exhibit that enough. Meaning I think a lot of times as people, we just sort of play a character a little bit. Like there's the one that we want everybody to think we are. And then there's the one that we are. And as I get closer to whatever part of my life I'm in, whether I'm in the middle or the third or fourth quarter, I don't know. I could just tell you all, like, I don't want to get off this planet having nobody really known who I was. And the more that you're willing to express who you really are, I believe the more you get to know who you really are. This game we play of hiding from people our real emotions or experience or thoughts or desires or just our real personality, the further we move away from knowing ourself.

33:29And one of the real gifts of vulnerability with other people is I think you become more understanding of you internally. I think that's one of the secret, quiet, invisible gifts of a vulnerability is much more knowledge of oneself. And that's really, now we're getting deep, but that's really the journey here. That's why faith matters. That's why vulnerability matters. That's why having adversity and tapping into your resilience matters. Like this life is about self-expression, but it's also becoming about self-awareness and self-under. Who am I? Why do I matter? What does this mean? What do I mean?

34:04What's my purpose? and the more you, if you, if you have the symptoms of I'm struggling with what my purpose is, I'm struggling with the emotions I want. I'm struggling with, you know, knowing what I want to do with my life or finding my dream or being happy. Those are symptoms probably of the disease of not truly living who you are. You can't love yourself if you're not being yourself and you can't expect other people to love you if you don't love you. And so the first step is to begin to truly be yourself and get to know you a little bit better. And I know that may be off the topic of resilience, but it's not off the topic of life.

34:38And I think you're not off topic at all. Thank you. Okay. I'm really glad to hear that because you make me think when you speak and when I read your writing and I want people, when they listen to the show, ask yourself, are you really being yourself? Like day to day, are you really being yourself? And if you're not, that's the disease. What are the symptoms? The symptoms are, I don't love myself enough. I don't have close enough relationships. I'm not sure about my purpose or my passions or I've got, you know, procrastination in my life or whatever it might be, a lack of joy. That's because you're not being yourself.

35:13Get to know you better. Start to be you. Stop hiding you.

35:19The shame, this idea, this shame bias that you talk about, this lack of vulnerability is a real thing. Now I'm going to pronounce it probably wrong, but what is gratiosity? Gratiosity. Did I say it right? You did. You said it great. You said it great. This is the only I only get to ask two more things in the book because I don't want to ask you all. You'd let me ask everything. But gratiosity is a concept. That's the second thing that I shared with my daughter this morning. Those are my two my two takeaways. So I want you to share it. Awesome. OK, I want to share the concept of gratiosity. And I wonder if it would be OK if I also responded to what you just said about getting to know yourself.

35:54A billion percent. Yes. Awesome. You both. Yay. So you talked about this idea of like getting to know ourselves, to love, you know, love ourselves. I want to say a couple of things about that. So in the book, I talk about the integration of self, right? And how we can reject or parse out parts of ourselves that we don't accept, right? Kind of wall off these parts of ourselves. And so I think part of self-love and self-acceptance is about loving and integrating all parts of ourselves. Right. And you met my boyfriend right before this interview. Mike. Yes. Boston Mike. Boston Mike. Yeah. And I asked him permission if I could share the story.

36:42And we were talking about, should I say it's a client? But I'm going to say this. He's been on this tremendous fitness journey. And as anyone knows who's been on a transformative fitness journey, the gains and the changes that we see on the outside are really nothing compared to the gains and the changes that happen on the inside. And what it means to really change and transform our lives. And so he was showing me the side-by-side comparison. Right. And he told me that he didn't like that guy from the past. Right. And he said some things that were unkind about himself. And I said, you you can't do that.

37:25You can't say those things about that guy. Because four months ago, that was the guy that made the changes that got you here. That was the guy who believed in what was possible for your life. You know, to borrow your language, who believed in trying something one more time, who believed in going to the gym, who believed in creating a life that was dramatically different than what existed. There was no evidence that the life that he dreamed of and wanted to create four months ago existed. That's beautifully said. But yet here it is today. And I said, so you can't shame that guy. You got to love that guy.

38:09You get to love that guy because that guy started you on the journey, had the courage to say, I'm going to do this. That brought you here. What a huge lesson for everybody to listen to. Yeah. Not shaming your former self. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't we love that guy? Yeah, we should love that guy. That guy made that decision. That woman made that decision. That's a beautiful point. Really, really good. I'm really glad you added that. Thank you. Really glad. Yeah. Now let's put a cap around this with gratiosity. Let's do it. Okay. So what is it? So gratiosity. So when I was interviewing people, right, there's qualitative research.

38:44And so qualitative research for people that aren't familiar with it, it's not about me sort of listening to what people are saying and then making sense of it. Right. It's trying to make sense of what I think people are trying to tell me about how they've effectively faced challenges. Right. So when I asked people to tell me about how they'd effectively face challenges, which is in essence resilience, I was hearing from people two things. I was hearing from people that after some time, not typically right away, they would look on that experience and they would be able to see the good in it. They would be able to be grateful for what happened, even if they wouldn't have chosen that circumstance.

39:26So they would say, you know, look, I didn't want to get diagnosed with this disease, with this illness. And yet looking back now, I'm so grateful for how it's changed me. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then I was hearing this idea of generosity. Right. This is the second part, theosity part, which is about building on that platform, on that foundation of vulnerability to then share our stories of resilience generously with others. And two things happen when we share resilient stories. First of all, if people aren't sure if they have a resilient story, I'm glad to tell you that as humans, we all have a resilient story, at least one, many.

40:12And oftentimes our resilient stories, and you probably heard this in my TED talk, it's often the story that we most don't want to tell. Amen. And yet most needs to be told. Amen. Right? Yeah. And so generously sharing our resilient stories does two things. The first thing is it solidifies for us, right? Instead of the story, the events of what happened, it's the narrative, right? The story we're telling about the story. It solidifies that experience for us and how we showed up and grew and demonstrated resilience. And the second part is it reaches other people in our lives, whether we know it or not.

40:53Our stories then become part of someone else's survival guide. They're a light that we shine for other people that are farther back on the path that encourages them on their journey. And so this fourth practice of highly resilient people is the practice of gradiosity. curiosity, the ability to find gratitude in our experience, even if we wouldn't have chosen it, and then to build on our vulnerability to share our resilient stories generously with the world. A million percent. Of all the work I've done, I've been trying to help people in life and business and every spirituality, whatever area of their life for 30 years.

41:32And I think I did pretty good work, but it wasn't until I shared about my dad and that I came out of an alcoholic home. And I didn't want to share that because I didn't want to shame my dad. I didn't want to shame me. There's shame from coming from that. And at the time I didn't really realize the significance of sharing that, but my ability to reach people, connect with people, them believe I'm not any better or different than them, take their excuses away, whatever you might want to call it, infinitely expanded when I finally told the real vulnerable story of my life. And I think what a lot of people do is they discount.

42:06There's like, well, I haven't become worth hundreds of millions of dollars. So there's no redemptive part of my story. There's no redemption yet in my story. You in and of yourself are a redemption. The fact that you're willing to share the story is redemptive. It shows something amazing about you. And so there doesn't have to be this. And the pot at the end of the rainbow is Mike now won a bodybuilding contest. That's not necessarily have to be the case. The point is that people are inspired by watching people overcome difficulties in their lives because, to your point, that's the process of life.

42:40And so anything that you've had to overcome or shown resiliency in somehow helps some other human being when you're vulnerable and willing to share it. I'm curious. This is a hard one. And I hesitated to ask this, but, like, is there anything different you would tell a young you or a child? So if someone has a child and they're listening to this or they're a young person listening to this, or if you could go back to you at 14, anything you would share with them about life or resiliency that maybe is more appropriate or better to be known young than to figure out later in life would have saved us all a lot of time or pain or angst in life?

43:19And I know it's a difficult question because it's not really out of the book, but is there something that right when I said that came to your mind? Yeah. For me, there's kind of two questions in that question, right? There's the question about how does this work and form parenting? And there's also the question of like, what would I go back and tell my younger self, right? So you just received the book today. And there's actually in the third section, there's a series of chapters on kind of specific experiences. There's a chapter on women in leadership and there's a chapter on resilient parenting.

43:49Yes. Right. And so the one thing that I'd say about parenting, and then I'll also share what I'd go back and tell like my 14-year-old self, I think one of the most powerful things, and it's simple that we can do as parents, is we can be the big person that we wanted to have when we were a little person. And, you know, we don't all grow up with great role models. We don't all have great experiences. You know, but we remember, we all remember what it was like to be a kid. Yeah. And in that moment, when we fell down, when we were crying, when we were getting into trouble, when we weren't making a good decision, when we needed to be heard.

44:34Right. Even if we didn't have a good role model for how our big people responded to us, we know what we would have wanted. It's so true. And so that means in any moment as a parent, to be a resilient parent and to raise resilient children, all we have to do is tap into what would I would have wanted as a little person and what can I offer now as a big person? And what that also does is it breaks the cycle. It breaks the cycle of negative behavior. It breaks the cycle of reactivity. It breaks the cycle of simply repeating what we saw because that's all we know. You know, many, many, many people can perpetuate a cycle.

45:17It only takes one to break it. That's right. I call that person the one. In every family, there's the one. And when you find a really happy family or a very rich family, somewhere back in their lineage, they weren't. And then the one shows up. And I think a lot of times people think when I say the one, they're like, oh, that's the warrior. That's the strong one. Well, yeah, you're probably going to go through things that other people didn't necessarily go through, but maybe you didn't. And maybe you just had the courage to share it. And maybe it was your vulnerability. It's not a worry or a grit thing.

45:51It's a deciding in your family that you're going to be the one. It's a deciding in your life that I'm going to change my family generationally forever. And those curses or behaviors or patterns, better said, in a family can be changed by one person. And you're 100 % right about that. 100 % right about that. So the last, chapter 12, by the way, you have resilient living rituals for a resilient life. And I'm into that stuff. I like rituals. I think under pressure, human beings operate back to their habits and rituals when they're put under pressure. It's just a reflexive thing to do. We operate reflexively when pressure happens.

46:29And so sometimes adversity can create pressure. And so what are some rituals for a resilient life that someone can have that we haven't covered because we've covered a lot of them. We have covered a lot of things, haven't we? Yeah. And I'll just say before I transition to rituals, what I'd go back and tell my 14-year-old self, if that's okay, in case anyone was waiting for us to touch on that. No, in addition, by the way, when she said that I got the book, I got the hard copy of the book today. But the reason I know so much about the book is because I had a digital copy. But go ahead. Yes. Yeah.

46:57So I'm a big believer in things happening for a reason. And not in the like we tell someone in a hard time, like everything happens for a reason Because I think that invites people to look outside of themselves for a reason rather than to look inside of ourselves for the meaning that we want to make and how we want to answer those hard why questions. Wow. Yeah? Yeah. And so just as we talked about, you know, around loving, you know, our journey, loving ourselves and really integrating, you know, that sense of self-love for all parts, for all experiences. I wouldn't change anything. Right? Because that brought me to the person that I am today.

47:45That brought us to sitting right here across from each other. And I love my life and I love the person that I'm, that I've become and that I am becoming. And that 14 year old girl could have used some encouragement because she was scared and she didn't know how to make sense of what was happening to her. So I would simply go back and I would say to her, it gets better. It gets better. Hang in there. That's beautiful. And you know what? If I could go back and grab the young me, I would have loved someone to have said that to me too. I actually, it leads to that question too about rituals because one of the rituals I've tried to establish in my own life is to encourage people, is to believe in people.

48:31And I feel like anybody listening to this, like if there's, when you're feeling helpless, get helpful. And one of the ways you can be helpful in people's lives is to truly believe in them and to encourage them. And it's amazing that of all the things you could have answered that you could go back to, you basically said that you wish you could go back and encourage her. And most people, if I asked you if you could go back at any point when you were a young person, you wish someone could come back and tell you it's going to get better. Everything's going to be okay. I believe in you. You're amazing.

49:01To encourage people. So if that's the one thing you all wish you could have had more of when you were young or you would go back and wish for yourself now, how powerful would it be to be that be the way you are with human beings right now? If it's the one. And I think if I asked 100 people that question, 100 would give a very similar answer. I'd go back and say, everything's going to be OK. It's going to get better. You're amazing. I don't think there's a human that wouldn't answer that way, which is incredible because human beings are so diverse and so different. And so why not behave as that type of a person in people's lives day to day?

49:37Because I know that's what I needed when I was young, when I was so insecure and so shy and so ashamed of what was going on in my house. And just like insecure and not that big of a guy and not that smart of a guy. And man, I wish I could go back and hug that little dude and go, man, you're awesome. Everything's going to be OK. It's going to get better. Right. So I just sort of decided with sincerity and truth to be that person in people's lives as often as I can be. And so I just feel like our whole world would be a whole lot better. Agree. If that were the case. So that is a ritual of mine. Yeah.

50:09What are some of those rituals that you talk about in the book? I love that. I love that. Well, you know, I think one of the issues that I've had with other work on resilience in general, right, is that sometimes the other work that I've seen is, glosses over the real gritty parts of challenge, change, and complexity. You know, it's almost like, you know, you start watching a movie at the beginning, kind of fast forward to the last five minutes, and then everything's good again. Right. Right? But it's like, well, what happened in that expanse? Yes. You know, and so some of this work on resilience, I think, can feel like, well, we're all baking cupcakes, right?

50:47And like, look, do you want sprinkles? You know? And folks are like, yeah, this whole resilience thing, like, doesn't really resonate with me. Because it's not real. It's not real. And it's really about like getting into the belly of it. And so, you know, when we are going to change something about the way that we're living our lives, I think it's helpful to ritualize that or to create a new routine or a new habit. Right. And one of the things I really tried to do with this book was to not only give the practices and to not only do the inspirational storytelling and to not only tell some stories about my own life, but to really have people walk away with a lot of practical information around, if I'm going to do one thing different, what can I do?

51:36Right. So I think the first ritual is people actually asking themselves, right, just me asking myself, you asking yourself, what is the highest value, one thing different I can do in my life? Biggest needle mover. Biggest needle mover. And that can be different for each person. Right. For one person, it might be I am going to drink a full glass of water before I have breakfast or drink my coffee in the morning. Right. It's really small. And as you know, when we continue to do the things that we say we're going to do, like you talk in your book about not giving up on yourself. Right. And there's also a sense of self-abandonment there that happens.

52:23when we don't keep promises to ourselves, right? So learning not to abandon ourselves and to make a promise to ourselves that I'm going to do one high value, one biggest needle mover thing different. And again, the word biggest is in quotation marks. That's going to be different for different people. And then decide and stick to that and don't give up on yourself and don't abandon yourself. And just stick with that thing. Right. And so some of those practices right in the book, like if we look at vulnerability, right, vulnerability can be about saying, where am I going to go deeper in my relationships?

53:07The vulnerability bias tells me if I share who I am to a greater degree, if I allow people to know me and to see me, the three L's will occur. people won't like me, they won't love me, and they might leave. And that is an incredible fear that blocks our vulnerability. So when we look at the vulnerability bias square in the eyes and say, you know what? That one thing that I'm going to do, I'm going to share one thing each day that feels vulnerable to me that's going to allow people to see and know me to a greater degree. And every interview, if it's a great one, something stands out to me that I didn't think would when I was reading the work to get in.

53:57And I just got it from you, which is not to abandon yourself. I've never heard that said before. Don't abandon yourself. Breaking those promises you make to yourself is abandoning yourself. Not being vulnerable with people is abandoning yourself. Not tapping into your resiliency is abandoning yourself. Not creating new habits and rituals that serve you is abandoning yourself. That is, that's a wow right there. Do you think of the three C's, anyone is more difficult? Is change the most difficult one? Complexity, change, you know, I'm just thinking through them, like, change is a biggie for people.

54:31I just like all three C's are major, right? That's why you call them the big three C's. But is any one of them more difficult, do you think, than others? Are they all just, depending on the human being, difficult? Yeah, I love that question. I really believe, based on my experience, that it's contextually driven. And that it's driven by the human. Yeah. So sometimes in our lives, we might say, you know what? This would be, I would be fine with this if it just wasn't so darn complex. Right? Like I think about like a health diagnosis. Right? Yeah. It's like, okay, I got it. I've integrated. This is my diagnosis.

55:07But darn it if it's not difficult to navigate the healthcare system and to know what to do next and how I wait. Like that's just the complexity is the hardest part. Right. Then we think about losing someone that we love and that change of that person being here. That's a good point. Versus moving on to another place, depending on what people believe about that. You know, that change is tremendously difficult. So I think it depends on the human and I think it also depends on the context. Tell them about Nelson really quick in the book. I want them to finish with a really example of resiliency that they can remember that maybe they're all kind of.

55:46you know, you may know this, but you may not know this. So do you mind covering that really quick? Yeah, I'd love to. And I think this really goes back to what you were also saying about your own vulnerability and continuing to be on that journey. Because I think so often, you know, we look at people that have achieved great things and we think, well, they never had to go through what I went through. You know, their path was paved. Their spoon was silver. Right. And then that can become a reason for why we don't persist. That can become a reason for why we don't try one more time. And I think something that's really powerful, and this is going to pertain to the story, is that success is an answer.

56:32Failure is an answer. Not trying is a lifetime of not knowing. and so when we think about the story of nelson right he was the one in his family he grew up in a rural area um his family was largely illiterate uh he had sort of a a standoffish relationship with his father very close with his mother then she passed away um unexpectedly which left a huge hole in his heart. He showed a flair for education where no one else in his family had. So he continued to advance and ultimately went to university. But then he sort of fell in with this crowd, right, that wasn't much approved of. And they were about social action and they were about social change.

57:25And so he was expelled from school. And on his way back to his family's home, he got whinge or he got word that his father wanted to straighten the boy out. Right. And so his father came up with, you know, I don't know how you feel about this, Ed, but I think this is really what we should be doing with children that are having difficulties as he was going to get the boy married. Right. Because that solves everything, doesn't it? Right. Not where I would go. Right. So he finds out that he's to be married. Yeah. And he's like, ah, heck no. Right. So he doesn't go home. He goes to a neighboring town where he has no resources, no community, and he starts living on the streets.

58:08And he becomes an on-again, off-again night watchman. He's got no health insurance. He doesn't have any contacts. He doesn't have any money to his name. So if we just sort of pause that story right there and I were to say, like, Ed, how hopeful are you feeling about Nelson's prospects? Probably nobody's going to know who Nelson is. Right? Right. But we said he was the one. Yeah. We said he was the one. And what this is, is the lesser well-known story of Nelson Mandela. It's awesome. Right? And this is so powerful, right? Because, and I talk about this on my podcast, right? Like Flourish or Fold, and it's about the well-known story, or the lesser well-known stories of well-known people, right?

58:53And I think it's, I love that you asked this question, because I think it's so important for us to share the behind the scenes, right? Because otherwise we look at Nelson Mandela and we're like, he persevered through prison. He became a global leader. He dismantled apartheid, right? But look at what was happening in the backdrop. And in interviews, he literally points to his difficult childhood and the adversity that he faced as the things that actually formed him to be able to take on greater and greater challenge over time. And so, you know, if we think about wrapping up with this story, I think it's important.

59:33It's been important for me to remember if I speak from my experience, right, that nobody has a paved path and that behind the scenes, we never really know what's going on. Right. Most importantly was that you've created your right narrative. And Nelson took that story of his life and turned it into a narrative that served him. And that's why your work is so profound. Really glad we finished on that. It ties everything together. this has been a great conversation really great conversation and you're great and and even in your case they see this woman who's she's got a great relationship with mike over there beautiful woman she's a doctor she's achieved all these things she's worked in all these environments she's got this book out now she's helped all these different companies and people and to know where you come from and we started out with your story and that it's turned into this beautiful narrative of your life i'm really honored to be a little page in one of the chapters of the narrative of this story because it's going to be really, really a big podcast when this is out.

1:00:35People are going to share this everywhere. So thank you for today very much. Thank you so much. I'm so deeply honored to now have you be part of the story and part of the journey. And thank you for having me here today. It was wonderful. This flew by, by the way. Okay. Remember this, guys, the five practices of highly resilient people. Go get the book and share this podcast with people. We're the number one podcast in the world. You want to know why? Because we change and improve people's lives every single week here. and I'm honored when I get to sit here when I know we're doing it and I know we did that together today.

1:01:04Actually, I know you did and I got to sit and participate with you. So thank you so much. God bless you, everybody. Have a great week. This is the Ed Milad Show.