How to Master the Art of Persuasion & Scale Your Vision | Ed Mylett

25:42And once you're in that top 5%, you're in good shape. You're going to do very well. And I tell them, it doesn't matter what your profession is, you've got to get in the top 5%, and you can only get in the top 5 % if you're in your position, if you're in your sweet spot, if you're in your gift. Is there any technique, strategy, thought you have in order to identify what those sweet spots are for you? Oh, yeah, trial and error. I mean, you know, when I started, okay, let's go to my, I started off as a pastor. And so, and I had a counseling degree. So now I'm counseling people. Well, it takes me about six months to realize I'm not a good at that.

26:14I'm You know I'm not it's not my gift. I mean they're coming in and I'm listening to them and then I say okay It's obvious. Here's your issue. Here's three things I write on a piece of paper and you know hand to them say now go be healed You know what I mean? Go be healed and the next month they come back in that said no, okay, what are we in here for? Well, we well I've got this problem. What's the problem? I heard the last month You know what I'm saying? Well, did you do the three things? No, I didn't do the three things. Well, it wore me out. I wore them out. I wasn't any good. But that's what I was trained in.

26:45But it wasn't giving me the results. And one day, I mean, it took me, really, it really took me three years. One day I realized that when you counsel people, you work on their weaknesses. And when you equip people, you work on their strengths. Oh, good. And the moment I went from working on weaknesses to working on strengths, I was a rock star with strengths. Because you show me your strength and I'm going to give you a game plan and let's get going. Because I'm a natural equipper, not a natural counselor. Nothing wrong with counseling. It's just not my gift. You with me? And what did they teach me in college?

27:20They taught me how to administrate. So I've got my little country church. I'm doing administration. Well, there's no return there. I mean, my gosh. And one day I'm waking up and I'm saying, wait a minute, this isn't working. I've got to go get me some volunteers to do this administration so I can get back. And so it's trial and error. And sometimes I think we go to people like, I mean, Ed, if I'm trying to find out my strengths and you and I know each other really well, I may come to you and say, okay, talk to me. You know, what do I do well? Yes. You know, sometimes we don't understand our own strengths.

27:47And it takes somebody that really is a good friend that knows us well that can say, well, I think you're really good in this area. But you've got to find them. Yes. And the good news is everybody has gifts. That's right. Everybody. So there's not such thing as a person, well, you know, I just have no gifts and so I'm left out. Everybody has them. You've just got to go find them. But once you find him, that's where, and by the way, that's where you put all of your time in personal growth and development. Because the goal isn't just to learn a lot of things. I know a whole bunch of people, they're very knowledgeable, but they're not very successful.

28:18That's right. So what you've got to do is you've got to say, I'm going to stay in the area of my strengths. Yes. And so at 27, when I decided I was going to speak and maybe write some books, I asked myself a very simple question. What are the areas that that people need to excel in to be successful? And I came up with four areas. Okay. Relationships. I mean, if you can't get along with people, hello. Right. Equipping. If you if you can't develop a team, you may have personal success, but you're not going to have multiple. You're not going to compound success because you don't have people helping you.

28:54An attitude of overcoming adversity and difficulty, the getting back up, not quitting that whole process. and leadership, the ability to influence people. And at 27, I said, those are the four things I will spend my life. And if you'll look at my books, almost all of them are in relationships, equipment, attitude, leadership. It's true. And I found what I call, I found the sweet spot for people to success. Man. And so I wrote all my books in those areas. I've read, I'm going to tell you something. I've read of the majority of your books. and there was a window of time where I read every single one as they were coming out and now I'm back in that cycle again with you and for me the last couple minutes were really valuable because I've I'm always I'm obviously acknowledged like you are as a good leader and sure and uh but in my own mind I've wondered whether I am sometimes because I'm not a great counselor either and I mean that like when people are looking for counsel from me and but what I am I do feel like I'm really good at identifying giftedness in people.

29:56I see giftedness. I think I'm good at equipping people. And so leaders come in different shapes, sizes, and forms. That was just really a good validation just for me. And I think it would be for certain people listening to this because I think also sometimes people that are really good at executing themselves potentially maybe struggle with counseling people on to do things, but they're great at, they could be great at equipping. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And what I found is successful people are really good at finding their gifts, getting in their gift zone, and then just really staying there and becoming successful.

30:24I think they're happier too. Oh yes, but successful leaders, there's the difference. Successful leaders have the ability of what you just described, of finding the sweet spot for other people and getting them in that sweet spot. And that's where the return is. I spent my life, after I discovered what my strengths were, now I'm just helping other people find their strengths because there's nothing more empowering to a person than to find out that they are good at something and then being equipped and taught how to do it well. That's honestly what you just described is what I enjoy doing most of my life.

30:55That's why you're a leader. Well, I hope I've worked on it. Thank you. I just want you to know something. The whole interview, everything we're doing today, that was valuable for me because I've struggled even myself. That's an element of my ability with people that's just limited. I'm not great at counseling people, but I am good at equipping them. So it's just a distinction that I really appreciate. One of the things about teams, and then I want to talk about the new book. But one thing I want to talk about on building teams and having teams is I have probably talked about the law of the catalyst in my life in business that you've talked about in various different books.

31:29Both identifying them in an organization so that they can grow and also wanting to be identified as one, as someone coming through an organization. Could you just talk about most people listening that are familiar with your work, but obviously there are people that aren't as well. So what is that law? What is a catalyst in an organization? Why is it important? Why do you want to be one? Well, that's out of my book, The 17 Laws of Teamwork. And basically, that chapter is about the fact that good leaders have the ability to make things happen. And so when people look at me and they say, okay, John, I'm looking for maybe a potential leader.

32:03What's the first thing I look for? The first thing I say for them to look for is look for somebody that makes things happen. Yes. Because there's a whole bunch of people that are wondering what happened. Do you know what I'm saying? And they're not the one you want to recruit. So I say go find, go find. Because here's what I discovered. If you can make things happen for yourself, you now have the credibility to make things happen for other people. If I'm not successful, there is no appeal for you to follow me. I tell people all the time success is the credibility of a leader to lead hmm because you think about it no one ever got you know nobody ever said oh my gosh you know okay I got it I'm financially in deep weeds oh my gosh I'm gonna I think I'll go call my buddy Joe he's been bankrupt three times you right right you don't follow Joe Joe's been bankrupt three times you got to go find somebody that's successful with money you don't get a divorce oh my gosh my I'm gonna call Jack even divorced four times you know Jack help me with my marriage you see people when they need help the first thing they think about is who is better than me that I can follow and so the credibility of a leader as far as to lead is that they're successful I mean if I'm successful I say hey I'd want to join my team well of course I mean if LeBron James was in the room right now LeBron says we're gonna play a little basketball right and and LeBron says you know I'll pick and then John will pick well when LeBron's there you're you're got your hand up saying LeBron pick me Because you're gonna win if you get LeBron and every time I'm getting ready to pick you're diving behind the chair You don't want to be on my team you're gonna lose on my team So what I tell people all the time is that the first thing you've got to do is you got to be you got to get good yourself If you're it why would I ever think that I should lead somebody if I'm not any good at it So true Okay, but once I'm good and I found my success Now I began to say, okay, how do I compound this?

33:56Well, I compound this by looking at Ed and saying, okay, Ed, let me help you find your sweet spot and let's get you on this same road because now all of a sudden this is how I really build a team. And so the law of the catalyst is all about making things happen. And that's what I look for. I mean, Jack Welch, his phrase was, you know, who's going to get out of the pile? You know, he'd say in General Electric, there's a big pile of people in this company. Well, who's going to get out of the pile? Well, somebody's going to climb out. Mark Coleman's the CEO of six companies, and Mark Coleman's the CEO of them.

34:32And the reason that he is is because he got out of the pile. He got out of the pile. He started in the stock room. Did he really? Mark did? Yeah, absolutely. And I just took him out last week.

34:49Mark's here, by the way. He's cracking up over this. Mark's here with us. But he got out of the pile. In other words, everywhere he was, he succeeded. And everywhere he went, he won. And after a while, you just sit there and say, okay, okay, I think I'll let him run this thing. Because he knows how to do it. And so for all of us, I say, before you go lead somebody else, just kind of get good yourself. So right. You're a mutual hero of mine, friend of yours that we're talking about off camera, Art Williams. Oh, my. How important is leadership, right? And Art would used to say and still probably does say, you want to show me any church, Boy Scout troop, football team company?

35:26I'm going to show you something being run by a leader. That's right. And in every great company, the leaders are great at identifying catalysts. I mean, when you find them, pay them well, keep them because they're priceless when you have them. Somebody, I'm sure Mark's over there nodding his head that you should pay him even better. But I wanted to say something to you about your books that I think are just, they're so, everybody, they're such great reads. They're easy to read. They're memorable. He makes points and then backs them up with incredible stories and anecdotes and quotes. And so it's the other thing about your books.

35:58They're incredibly, I would say, the information is profound, unique, and deep, yet very easy. You equip people so well with the way you write it that it's transferable. That's right. The information is so transferable. You do that better than anybody, of anybody's work that I read. I enjoy reading every single book. The problem with your books oftentimes is when you highlight them, you would almost be better off in John's books highlighting the parts that you don't want to go back and remember because he's literally just covered in highlighter when you highlight his books. I'm serious. Thank you, buddy.

36:27It's an absolute fact. I always get tired of highlighting. It's like every single part of every single page it would seem to be. Well, I'm a communicator. So let's start here. You know an educator takes something simple and makes it complicated. I mean think of all you know I don't think of all my college also I mean in an educational world if you're not confused they're not happy. I mean they they're pair hey their sentences are a paragraph long I mean by the time I get down the paragraph I forgot what the first part of the sentence I got to go back and read the paragraph instead of short sentences you know I'm dealing with the paragraph so but a communicator is exact opposite they take something and complicated and make it simple.

37:04And so here's when I write a book or when I speak, doesn't matter, my first objective is to keep it so simple that when I say it, it immediately resonates with people. In fact, any time you have to explain what you said, you didn't say it right the first time. So my joke is I put the cookies on the lower shelf so everybody can have some. And so, simple as far as understanding, but deep, because there's a difference. But deep when it comes to profound results that it will make in your life. It's an absolute fact. So, I mean, one of the principles I teach is very simple. I just hold my arm up in the air and I say, everything worthwhile is uphill.

37:47Everything. There's nothing in your life worthwhile that's not uphill. It's all uphill. Well, everybody gets it. I mean, it's all uphill. You know, and here's the problem. We get uphill hopes, but we have downhill habits. Okay, we're in trouble. You know, got a downhill habit, you're not going uphill. Got to change that habit. So everything that I teach, I teach with a real passion to keep it simple, but keep it very practical and make sure that the principle is life-changing. Yes. If you could do those three things, then you really got to go. And when I wrote the book, Leader Shifts, I've been sitting on that book probably for a good 12 years.

38:31Have you really? In fact, a lady on our team named Erin, who does a lot of content for me, she shared with me. She said, John, you really need to get that book out. And I kind of put it on the shelf and really wasn't too excited about getting it out. Because I thought, I don't know, this may be a little too simple. But when I started writing, I thought, this is going to be life changing. And now that I'm looking at the book coming out, I'm so excited because here's what happens. We start leading in a way that gives us some success. And immediately we get into this pattern. And what we don't understand is that leadership, if leadership is about anything, it's about adjusting and being flexible.

39:14And if you want to be a manager, then nail it, get it straight, do it the same way every time. That's management. But when it comes to leadership, in fact, if you go back into the 1980s, there were no leadership books in bookstores. They were all management books. Right. Because you were trying to manage your company, your business. And then things began to change so fast, people were saying, this management stuff doesn't work because this baby isn't staying the same. I turned around and it moved on me. Man. And so I've got to get in front of it. And so leadership is all about being in front. Well, if you're in front, one of the first things you know is if you're in front, you don't know everything.

39:52Yes. So the issue is not knowing everything. The issue is when you know something, adjusting as quickly as you possibly can. Because if we don't adjust quickly, we miss it. Yes. Because it's a timing thing. Especially today. Oh, well, I was getting ready to speak for a company recently, and their theme was fast forward. And we were doing a pre-call, and they asked me, they said, what's fast forward mean to you? I said, well, fast means faster. As you look in the future, if anybody thinks that the future is going to be a little bit slower, I love these people say, well, I'm just, honest to God, I'm just waiting for things to slow down.

40:29You know what? I would suggest dying. That's probably about the only way it's going to slow down for you. So fast is faster, but let me tell you something. Forward is shorter. When I started off as a leader, we had 10-year long-range plans, and five-year was a mid-range. A short-range plan when I started off, now I'm talking about the Dark Ages now, was a two-year plan. Well, a two-year plan now, that's a ridiculous long run. I mean, that kind of makes you suck air. You say, I think that's a little bit long. So what I know is fast is faster and forward is shorter. So let me tell you something.

41:07The only people that are going to win are people that can make leader shifts and adjust quickly. And so I wrote the book. I talk about 11 leaderships that I've made in my lifetime. And people ask me all the time. They'll say, John, how have you stayed? I'm 71. How have you stayed on top of your game? And I say, it's very simple. It's not the same game. Gosh. Okay. Baseball is called baseball. But it's not the same game. So true. I mean, you don't go to the baseball game the second day and say, oh, my gosh. Now, wait a minute. That leadoff hitter got a single yesterday. Oh, he struck out. Oh, my Lord.

41:41You see, it maybe had the same title. Yeah. But it isn't the same game. Yes. And you don't lead today's game on yesterday's results. No kidding. Babe Ruth said one day, he said, yesterday's home run won't win today's game. And I'll tell you what, yesterday's thinking won't win today's game either. So I talked about leader shifts that you need to make in your life to keep you on the edge and to keep you adjustable and flexible so that you can really lead your people well. Because here's what I know. Here's what I know. People don't like change. You're right. So when the leader is resistant to change, he's going to get into this leadership gravity pool, or she is, that's going to go down every time.

42:27Because you're not going to have the people behind you saying, come on, let's make some more changes. Let's make some more adjustments. No, no. Remember, they're wanting to hold on to what they have. And your job as a leader is to say there's something better. If you just let this go, there's something better for you here tomorrow. And that's what the good leaders do. Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. So you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing like on repeat all the time?

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43:28Quality basics designed to work with your wardrobe and hold up to everyday wear. I love their cotton tees. I'm wearing one now, and I get a ton of compliments when I wear them on the podcast and when I speak. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash ed for free shipping, on your order, and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's quince.com slash ed. So you know I've been trying to take my health and my morning routine to the next level. And I used to do a whole bunch of different stuff, tons of different supplements.

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44:45Code ed10 at im8health.com slash ed10. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So are you like me? Did you ever want to go to Yale? Did you ever want to go to an Ivy League school and wonder what it was like? You know, for me, there was a few obstacles. One was IQ. Two was grades. Three was college scores and money. So it kind of eliminated me. So you were almost there. I was almost there. I was this close. But today I'm going to bring you into what I think is, you know, one of the most popular courses at Yale School of Management.

45:21And the lady who teaches that class. We're going to go in there together today. So if you're interested in that, listen. And if that never interested you, would you like to be more influential, which I think is the most important skill set a human being can possess is to be able to influence themselves and other human beings. And I have the best person on the planet, I think, to talk about it today. So Zoe Chance, welcome to the show. And thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. And I'm so happy to meet you. I want to ask you a basic, really flat out question. I am going to go get your book, but I have a contract with you before I get it.

45:54I want you to give me on this show, I already have your book, but I'm talking about as a listener. I want you to give me one or two practical things I could do right now to be a more influential person. You give me those. I'm gonna go get your book. A fair request. And what I will also say is the flavor, variety, philosophy of influence I'm espousing is not transactional. And so you don't have to promise me that you'll go and get your book. It's so good. It's so true in the book too. But I'm, I'm happy to give you my favorite concrete takeaway right now that you can put into action. And this is a tool called the magic question.

46:32Yes. The magic question is simply, what would it take? And if it's okay, I'll share a story to help this sink in. I love this part. It's probably my favorite part of the book. Oh, awesome. So, so this story really struck me when Gloria Steinem told it, when she was visiting my hometown of New Haven a little while ago. And this is when she was focusing on the topic of sex trafficking. She'd been to a conference. She was an expert. She knew as much about sex trafficking as anybody. And then she goes to this village in a rural part of Zambia near a game preserve. And three young women in that village had been lost to sex traffickers and never heard from again the previous year.

47:13So she sits down on a tarp in the middle of a field, circle of women. And instead of telling them what they should do or giving them her expert advice, she asked the magic question. She said, what would it take to make sure that that never happens again, that no women from this village will be sex trafficked? And they told her an electric fence, an electric fence. They said, when the corn reaches a certain height, the elephants come and eat it and they trample it. And we have nothing to eat. We have nothing to sell at the market. We have no money to send our kids to school. And these young women and their families were starving.

47:55So Gloria Steinem goes back home. She raises a few thousand dollars, sends it to the people of the village. And the way that she tells it, she comes back a few years later, there's a bumper crop of corn. And since they built the fence, no one from that village has been sex trafficked. so magic question it's it's powerful for me um so one of the first things that comes up when you hear that story is when you ask what would it take you so often get an answer that you wouldn't have expected so often it's so much less than you might have been willing to do so much simpler so true so the electric fence none of us are going to think of that because we wouldn't have known that it's not just a sex trafficking problem and not even just a poverty problem, but it's a human wildlife conflict problem.

48:47Also, the magic question is respectful. So it feels good on the other side and people aren't going to have this innate immediate resistance that can happen to you trying to persuade them to do something. And because it's respectful, you can use this again and again all the time. Like you're talking about your children and we struggle a lot of us to influence our children. This is something we can teach them and help them succeed in the world. They're going to use it on us like my daughter does. We can use it on them and we just laugh, right? Oh, the magic question again. Anytime you have rapport, you can use the magic question.

49:25And then when, this is the most subtle part of how the magic question works, but when they give you a roadmap, they are implicitly committing to helping you with that outcome if you follow the roadmap. So in this particular situation, when they said what it will take is an electric fence, my interpretation isn't that the electric fence was the answer and then sex trafficking is done. It's that the women who said what it will take is an electric fence are going to make sure that their friends, their neighbors, and each other's children are not going to be sex traffic no matter what. So magic question, what would it take?

50:07Go put it into action. The reason that I said this is my favorite part of the book, and I'm not going to get emotional on the show because I want to keep going, but I think there's even power. I think sometimes when you're doing something in your genius, which is what you're doing, writing this book and this content, because you've been doing this work for a while, but sometimes it's even more powerful than even you know, and the ripples are even bigger because I've sort of been in the influence space most of my life. At least I think we all are. I've just been aware of it more than most people.

50:33Right. And so this what would it take question does a lot of things. I just want to elaborate on my perspective for you. I want to give this back as a gift to you and the audience. One, when you say to somebody, what would it take? It opens up the possibilities of multiple different yeses and different pathways instead of perhaps the narrow one you came predisposed with. The second thing it does is it almost makes you in the unconscious part of their mind, almost like a Santa Claus figure in the sense that you're in the gift giving business now. What would it take? I'm open to giving to you instead of taking from you.

51:04It changes the entire paradigm in somebody's mind when you say, what would it take? Because now it's incumbent upon them to tell you, and you're almost in the gift giving. It's almost like, what's your wish list? It changes the dynamic in someone's mind of the entire conversation, providing you have that emotional connection and rapport that Zoe has Now a personal anecdote. I read this and I had a, I want to influence myself this year. It sounds like very premeditated, but I want more peace this year. It's a big thing for me. People ask me, what could I get someone who's had everything? I want more peace.

51:36I want what every human being truly wants. And so I've been writing these strategies down and I stopped and I use the magic question with myself. What would it take in order for me to feel more peace? A couple of things happen. I just want to illustrate that you just said. One, it was much more simple than I thought it was. And two, it was so enjoyable to start to find out what it would take that I found myself six hours later, six days later, driving in the car, another answer, another thought. My spirit enjoyed this question rather than making demands all the time to influence myself or to influence other people.

52:13So the ripple effects of your work and just this one thing is so profound. If people just start asking themselves and other people, once you have rapport, what would it take? You'd be blown away. So I just wanted to show it with you. Thank you for that gift. And I'm inspired now to ask myself the same question as well. What would it take for me to feel more happiness? What would it take for me to start a business? What would it take for me? And you've just started, you've opened a space when you do this that didn't exist before you said it with you and other people. Maybe you're in the middle of this trying to get someone to do something thing you're doing, which is not the way to influence as you read the book.

52:49But the minute you say, what would it take? You've opened a new space you can both go into now, or you on your own can go into, or you and your deity, you and your God can go into and start to fill that space up with the answers. And it seems simple, but it's huge for your company. What would it take to get to this next level? What would it take for us to serve more people? What would it take for us to cure this or that? And it's a powerful question that should be utilized so much more in people's lives than it is. But you, the quality of our life is the quality of the questions we ask ourselves and the quality of the questions we ask other people.

53:22And our emotions come from the questions we ask ourselves. We're constantly asking ourselves, what's wrong with this situation? We're going to get answers that feed us those emotions. What's right? What's beautiful? What am I grateful for? What are the solutions? So anyway, I'm going on, but I just think it's so powerful. There's another part of the book that's powerful. Again, you guys can tell I'm very passionate. I'm having Zoe on you guys, because let's be honest, I have super famous people on all the time. And then you guys can tell, then I have people on all the time who should be super famous because of the work they do that can change people's lives.

53:53Zoe is in the midst of becoming that I can promise you. And it's not the reason she's doing it. Okay. Nose. I want to talk about nose. Yeah. Wait one sec, Ed. Can I just, can I just draw attention to this key principle of influence that you just illustrated with the way that you described the magic question, becoming more influential takes becoming influenceable. And when you ask the magic question, it's not just that you're showing you're willing to do something in exchange, but you're showing that you're open to the other person's influence. All right. That's really important, by the way. Thank you for adding that.

54:29the other thing you're going to have to deal with is no and so my kids both you know my son's in college my daughter will be there next year and they're at that stage what am I going to do you know what do I want to do and one of them is do I want to go into business do I want to do this and I've told both of them I said you know one of my hesitations for you is I think that in culture Now, the ability to deal with no is at an all time low and how it makes people feel and how afraid of it they are and their avoidance of it or what it does to their identity, their confidence, their self-worth when they get one.

55:09And so then they do all of these things to insulate themselves from never getting them. And those very things they do to insulate themselves from not getting no's is the very things they should be doing to get to the things they want to have and feel. And so in the book, you have the power of no and the no challenge issue in there. Can you just talk about that a little bit? Yes. So, of course, we hate to be rejected. We hate to have people say no. And it may be that we feel it more now than ever, especially in this world where we've been suffering a lot for the past couple of years and just everything is more difficult.

55:46But even before that, what happens in our brain when we experience rejection is that our brain processes it just like physical pain. And the same regions of our brain that hurt or get activated when somebody slaps us get activated when they leave us out or they say no or they reject us. We can learn to handle physical pain through exercise, practice, when you work out on a regular basis. You're actually pushing yourself through some physical pain, right? And that's how you grow. And that's how you get stronger. You don't try to push yourself to the point where you're suffering immeasurably, but you take repeated small amounts of physical pain to keep growing and build resilience.

56:35And this is what I advocate doing to get rejected repeatedly on small things so that you can handle getting rejected on the big things. And if you're not getting rejected, you are absolutely playing small. There's no question. So you can also by practicing getting rejected, train your brain to hear that and feel that as a success, even if it's still painful. Can you give me an example of that where you could get small nose before the big no? Can you just a practical, I'm trying to think of a visual example of what that might look like. Thank you. Yeah. So listeners who might want to put this into practice, I have a great source of inspiration for you, which is my friend Jia Zhang, who has a video blog called 100 Days of Rejection.

57:26And a student was a big fan of his and put us in touch. Now we're buds and we do some rejection research. He has a hundred of these challenges. You can replicate any of them like my students do. and lots of them are funny things like um you know you're at starbucks and you're ordering a drink and you just ask them hey can i make that drink for myself right and you do it in a charming and friendly way usually they say no sometimes they say yes um ja went to a fire station and asked if he could slide down the fire pole and now i'm so sorry for the firefighters of new haven and the local area because so many students have asked them can i go and slide down the fire but Just tiny things like this, like go ask your neighbor, is it okay if I plant a plant in your front yard?

58:11Yes. Any, there are all kinds of creative little things you could do. One of my favorites, favorite things a student did was his neighbor was seven years old and he had never met her or her family. And she was having a birthday party and they had a bouncy house in the backyard. And he's like, you know, I'm just going to go get rejected standing in line for the bouncy house. And this guy is big like you, Ed, he's an MMA fighter. and he so it's like a grizzly bear walking over to stand in line behind the seven-year-old girls and the thing is what surprises people so much first of all about the rejection challenge is that it's when you get rejected it's not as bad as you think usually but you so rarely get rejected compared to how often you think that you will so true they did let him go in the bouncy house it didn't break.

59:01But this family liked him so much by, because he put himself out there in this charming and funny way. And he's very charismatic that they invited Jason back to Sophie's birthday party the next year and the next year. And he's coming back to new Haven, even after he graduated to go to her eighth birthday party and her ninth birthday party. That is so awesome. And it's like, you guys, the way you and I have a real flow because not only is the no challenge so profound, I just look back, like I'm, I read your work and I'm like, you know, I've been so fortunate in my life to have actually done some of these things without ever being directed to do them that you write about in the book.

59:41So I'm almost, I guess I'm saying I can validate with a lot of my own experience, your work and, and this, I'm, I got a lot of nose and I kind of got in this weird addicted space where I almost got off the wrong word about like, yeah, I got another one. And it just started to hurt less and less. And in it, just in your overall life, if you're not getting rejected in small ways, man, these breakups, these sales, you don't close the business that fails that are massive to you. Cause you haven't had any little ones to sort of just dull your senses to it a little bit. And the other thing that you still feel it, you still feel it.

1:00:20It just doesn't last as long. So it's not even that the magnitude of the pain gets that much less. It just gets much, much faster. And because you've had practice, you know you can handle it and you can see your way to the other side. So with something like a breakup, this is especially important, right? Yeah. And I think what changes is it still hurts, but what it means is slightly different. In other words, it's not the events of our lives that define us. It's the meaning we take from it. So there was a point in my life where I would get a no. Let's say in business, I go, I suck. I'm not called for this.

1:00:54This is what I'm supposed to be doing. This is God's way of telling me I shouldn't do this. That's what the no meant. Or people don't like me. Or it's because I'm, you know, whatever. I would catch these massive, unrealistic, silly, nonsensical meanings to events that were so rare. But the more familiar they become, you begin to change the meaning. It doesn't mean you go, this is great. I love, I've never believed you would go, I love when I get a know. Nah, not all the time, but it means different things to me. It could mean I'm growing. It could mean I'm closer to a yes. It could mean I'm getting tougher.

1:01:27So it changes the meaning. The other muscle, so to speak, that I kind of built, which I think after reading your work, maybe I've let atrophy a little bit as I've become maybe a little bit more well-known, I've been less willing to do, but I did a lot throughout my life. As you say, just ask, you want to be a person of influence? Just ask. I cannot tell you Zoe, how many people, you know, People are always trying to get me to invest in their companies and pitch me. And some of the most successful people in the world, look at this whole presentation of me and then never ask me to invest. They never ask me to do it.

1:01:59Or I can tell they need something. They're a friend of mine and they never ask me what they need. And this is most humans. And the longer you go without asking people, the more difficult and mountainous you think it is to do so. So major part of the book is just ask. So talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of embarrassing to be teaching a class at this Ivy League school where the biggest takeaway that people tell me afterward that they had, I'm getting emails from alums and they're like, I just asked now in my life. I just asked. Thank you. Go. But they find love. They get companies funded. They change policies, change the course of history.

1:02:40It's so, so, so simple. by the way you mentioned that a lot of these things that you read felt um they resonated like things you're doing already and i believe that a lot of already successful leaders will feel that same way about this book and what i've tried to do in this book is make it simple enough that you can not just see yourself in that but you can teach other people and you can say to your people like here's a half chapter take this one like oh charisma here go but about just asking Thank you. Scary for all of us. Most of us have some domain in which we're less comfortable than others.

1:03:19Like maybe you're killing it in business, but you're scared to ask for a date. Maybe you are comfortable asking people you know to do favors for you, but the idea of asking a stranger for money would be, you would just rather die. Love and money are the two biggest ones. I don't know if can I just ask you because you said you haven't been doing much of it like is there some area of your life ed that's harder to ask than I'm so glad you asked that because I was thinking about so glad you asked that right yes and it's not major things it's minor things I would blow you away with the things I'm afraid to ask I'll tell you it this will shock you and probably most people I'll ask a favor of a friend on a big business deal or it but if I'm in a restaurant and this is going to sound nuts but if I'm in a restaurant and my food is cooked incorrectly for me to ask the server to go take it back and do it I would never do that because I feel like I'm bothering them for me there's almost a reciprocity connection sometimes that I feel like needs to be there where I can help you back even when I if I've been waiting in a restaurant or my wife will tell you like we walk into a restaurant she's the person who goes up and says hi we're the my let's we're here for table I don't want to ask or bother them it seems so odd but one of the things you should guard against is I always think I should only ask somebody a favor or something I needed them if I can pay them back.

1:04:41And this is the more sort of maybe influential I've become, the more it's reinforced that false belief. So I'll ask people all the time that I've already helped or that I know I could help. But if I don't think I can help you, somehow I'm hesitant to ask. And my sense is, even as I say that out loud, maybe that's true for a lot of people who walk through their everyday life that way. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, at least for a lot of nice people. And, and it's funny, like, I'm surprised hearing you say this, but then I'm also thinking like, you know, I, there are so many other people like you who are very successful and have these same hesitancies, like wall street banker, who's telling me that he's uncomfortable trying to get a bartender's attention.

1:05:23And it's this, it is exactly that we're afraid to bother people. And in the book, I write about this challenge that we, so whole classes based on challenges, a challenge that's called the bigger and better game. That's specifically to put you out of your comfort zone where you have to be asking for things that you can't reciprocate because you're going to trade somebody for something they have that's bigger and better than what you have. And you start with a paperclip or something tiny like that. And you trade up as many times as you want. And you're anybody listening. You know, it's fun if you feel like it to do this with your team or your family.

1:05:56in class we start with a paper clip and then everyone comes back one week later with the biggest best thing that they've gotten and in class it's a competition to see who can win and you get to have a free homework and dinner with zoe the craziest one is the two students who traded up in 10 trades over four days from a paper clip to a volkswagen jetta come on from a car dealership in new haven oh my god and they traded up for a car that they didn't even need and they donated it to an afghan refugee family who had settled here and this is a perfect example of how people are so much more willing to help than we expect and when we can frame the situation in an appealing way and especially with a vision a visionary outcome that's something bigger than ourselves and or just something fun.

1:06:54They just went around saying, Hey, we're playing this game and it's totally crazy. And we probably can't do it, but we're going to try to trade up from a paperclip to a car. This is our dream. And we're going to give it away. Do you want to be part of this game and play with us? It's fun. And also these guys, it was happening over Halloween. And so they're wearing fuzzy animal onesies and, you know, they look hilarious. People are so much more open to our influence when we approach them in an open-hearted and human kind of way than saying, here's what I have for you. What will you trade with me as a transaction?

1:07:32What would be they like other teams of people will do transactional trades where they're trying to find people. Okay. I have a paper clip who has paper that they need to clip. Okay. You have paper. I have a paper clip. What will you trade with me? Okay. You've got a stamp. I'll trade you for a marker. And what happens to those people, by the way, is they end up with giant pieces of trash from somebody's basement and they'll get like a collection of ugly mugs or like a 14 foot or from a rowboat that got lost. So I, the, my favorite part about what you do, that's different than everyone else's way they teach influence is this right here, which is that it's not transactional.

1:08:09I think a lot of times, you know, I've had the blessing of some success as an entrepreneur. And I think people think that that must mean I was a very transactional person. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just want to elaborate on what you said. Like, it's just so good to have someone finally saying the right stuff, the true stuff. And by the way, I've learned a ton in this book. I don't want to think, oh, it confirmed everything I do. No, I learned a ton in this book that I did not know. There are some things in the book I went, yep, I've done that. Yes, that's true. But there's a bunch I learned.

1:08:37But one of them is I'm not transactional. When you approach somebody in a transactional basis, here's what I've always felt like. They immediately don't even see you as human. They see you as almost an object because you've objectified them. And now you've lost all of whatever that influence could have been because you're no longer a human being. You're no longer vulnerable. You're no longer somebody I want to help or root for. And now they almost want to win. They almost want to win it by rejecting you, by getting by and giving you the or instead of the Jetta, right? And so the most important thing I think you can be to be influential is to be vulnerable, is to ask for help, is to be yourself, is to be human with people, is to be as far away from transactional as that you possibly can get in order to be influential.

1:09:20And almost all other influential courses are, well, if you could have A or B, what would you have? And it becomes very transactional. That has not worked for 30 years in life or business, yet it's still taught all the time by people who I don't think are very influential that really make a very big difference. So now having said that there are techniques and one of them is the frame. And I promised us in the beginning, we don't have a ton of time that I want to ask you this and one more question. But talk a little bit about framing things for people, because it's just, you have to help someone who wants to help themselves or help you and the frame in which the lens, whatever you want to call it matters.

1:09:59So let's talk about that. Yeah. A frame is the words that you use to influence someone's perspective, including your own. And a frame influences how somebody expects things to play out. It influences their experience and it influences their evaluation. That's a lot of jargon. So here's a concrete example that this is a cool study in by a neuroscientist who was looking at the framing effects of price on wine. And she says, OK, wine drinkers come to my experiment. And this has to be the worst way to drink wine that anyone could imagine. You're in an fMRI machine with a tiny little tube going into your mouth and giving you little sips of wine.

1:10:43And before each sip of wine, the researchers tell you how much that bottle costs and either it's cheaper, it's expensive, and then you sip it. So they're not asking you to evaluate it. They're scanning your brain. They're scanning the gustatory pleasure centers of your brain. And it's probably not surprising to wine drinkers that they found a lot more activation from the expensive wines than the cheap wines. However, it's a framing experiment. So all the wines were the same. but the frame created the expectation that this is going to be a good wine and then literally people were physiologically experiencing this differently depending on that expectation you can see powerful frames all over in the world and you can think of a frame as a soundbite but one example would be global warming versus climate change versus the climate crisis These have very different impacts on what we think is happening, how true we think they are, and what we want to do about it or don't do about it.

1:11:48I love this. I think most humans are predisposed to behave the way they think is appropriate. So if you're telling me something, you're going to love this. I'm more inclined to think I'm going to love this and that I'm going to like it. And so people do behave based on the frame they're in. You take the same human being, everybody, and at six o 'clock in the afternoon, in the evening, they're at a funeral. And there's a certain context and frame to that environment of how you should or shouldn't behave emotionally. They leave there and at 830, they're at an NFL football game jumping up and down, screaming.

1:12:20Same exact human being, different frame because the environment is different. And you create that frame with your words, with your lead in. It's a really important part of the book because you do have an obligation as somebody who wants to be influential to not be transactional. but to be vulnerable, transparent, and honest with people. But at the same time, be good at it. Same time, be good at it. That's the whole point is that you can't be a sloppy person. It's some of the skills that are requisite. It's why certain parents are better at communicating with their children than other ones. There's a skill to it.

1:12:50There's a presence to it. And that's why you're going to want the book. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. I'm excited because a really good friend of mine is here today, and he's the sexiest man in the world and the most charismatic man that I've ever met in my life. He's also, though, probably the number one real estate brand on the planet right now. And so you would probably know him from his company, The Agency.

1:13:21You may also know him from The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. He and his wife, Kyle Richards, are sort of the OGs of that show right now. He's also got a new show out on Netflix right now. What's the name of that show? called Buying Beverly Hills. Buying Beverly Hills. And so if you have ever watched that show, you recognize that beautiful voice of my friend Mauricio Yamansky. Welcome, Mo. Ed, how are you? It's so good to be here with you. We've been talking about this for a long, long time. I think the timing's better now because the book's out, right? And that's sort of the intro. He has a new book out called The Dealmaker, How to Succeed in Business and Life Through Dedication, Determination, and Disruption.

1:13:58He's highly qualified to write this book. So let's talk a little bit about all the stuff in there. Okay. Cause it's like, it's a very detailed book, brother. There's a lot of details. There's a lot of stories, you know, and one of the things I wanted to do is I wanted to kind of teach what I've learned, but through storytelling, right? Because I feel like a lot of the books that you read, it's like, it's very, um, you know, like do this, do that. Like I didn't want to tell people what to do. I wanted them to think about my stories, what I did, and then how does that relate to that person and then how can they learn, right?

1:14:28I mean, I've learned so much from you, Ed, but it's like, you know. Well, I've learned a lot from you too. And one of the things, here's why I like that you finally wrote a book, because I've been telling them to do this for a while. It's like, write the book, man, write the book. It's because a lot of people that write books, and I don't mean this disrespect to anybody, they haven't actually done what they say they do in their books. Like, you actually have produced evidence and success through the stuff that's actually in the book. And some of it's like, you're right, there's all stories in it.

1:14:51A couple I can't wait to talk about today. but like there's even like some basic principles but like even for me i've read every dang book on personal development or business probably on the planet but like even in the very beginning of the book i think it's your grandfather told you about like it was your grandfather your dad where you're like hey there's eight there's 24 hours in a day yeah yeah there's like eight hour i'll let you say it but there's eight eight and eight what are the eights 24 hours in a day yeah eight hours for work eight hours for family free time whatever that means and eight hours for sleeping.

1:15:22Yeah. But you do that really well. Well, and I've learned it young from my grandfather, right? It's all about balance, you know? And I said, I talk about it in my book, you know, one of the things that, you know, you take from one, like you got to sleep, right? Like the body just needs to sleep, right? And maybe it's seven or eight or nine or whatever, but the body needs to sleep, right? You can't take that away from yourself in order to have sustainability, long life, longevity, and to be able to be, you know, on it. Right. Right. But, and then you got to, And fortunately or unfortunately, for some of us, unfortunately, we have to work.

1:15:53Right? I mean, like, that's just part of our lives, right? So then it's those eight hours of play that you got to figure out how to balance the most. Right? And if you're borrowing from those hours to work, you know, then something's got to give in those eight hours for play. Right? And then you got to decide what's the most important thing for you. Right? Is it your family? Is it playtime? Is it friends? Right? Because you can't do it all if those hours become shorter, right? And one of the things that I've talked to some of my best friends and one of the sacrifices I've had in my life, you know, in growing the business and having to work because I didn't have money, you know, any money at one point in my life, was that I sacrificed friends, right?

1:16:36Like I had the family. I did not sacrifice family. I did not sacrifice my wife, my kids, my girls. I did not sacrifice that. I sacrificed friends. And, you know, you look back in time and it's like, I feel bad about it. But, you know, I wouldn't change it. It was the right decision. Right. Even though I feel bad about it. I don't think most people realize that probably something does give. By the way, same for me. The exact same thing. I just said this today to somebody earlier in the day. Like, that's probably the thing the last decade. I've maintained friendships, but they haven't gone as deep as they probably otherwise could have.

1:17:09I've actually, though, watched you in different seasons, too. I feel like right now maybe you're on the work part a little heavier than even before when I knew you. Is there some validity? You've got the two TV shows. You've got the book coming out. Your company's exploded the last decade. You've built this explosive brand and company. You're pretty heavy on the work part right now. I am very heavy on the work part right now. Why? Do you have to consciously choose that or is it like the season of your life? Like I'm going to get it when it's good because I'm at a certain age? It's the season of my life, right?

1:17:37The business right now is in that moment of explosion. I always say, when it rains, catch as much water as you can because there's going to be a drought. And so right now, the business is just an opportunity where there's an opportunity to explode. The brand recognition is crazy. Kyle is doing, she's at her peak in her career. So that's allowed us also to give the family more. Right. Like because of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and because of Alex Baskin and all of those people, like we have a show, you know, called Buying Beverly Hills. Right. Like if we didn't have the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I mean, I probably wouldn't have Buying Beverly Hills.

1:18:19You know, I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe not. Right. But it's all of those things that lead to circumstance. And when that door opens and you talk about this all the time, right, like when that door opens, do you walk into that door and take advantage of that door or do you stay looking, you know, at the room and try to figure out, you know, if you should go walk in that room? I think a lot of people don't walk in the room because they think they have to know everything before they walk in there. Don't you? I think that's one of the biggest mistakes people make is that procrastination. What's inside that room?

1:18:47What does it look like? By the time you figure it out, it's closed. Man, that's really true. The window or the door closes if you flinch, right? Like you've got to be able to step into the unknown a little bit. I said this about you when I intro'd you. I wasn't being funny. You are the most charismatic friend that I have. And you and I have a lot of really well-known, very influential friends, famous friends. but of all of them, if you said to the word to me, charisma, persuasion, whatever that thing is, I'm serious, Mo, you are the most charismatic friend. We've both got a lot of them. I love you for that, man.

1:19:18And coming from you, that means the world. Thank you. It's really true though. And I wonder in the book, you actually, you don't use the word charisma, but you kind of break it down by influence. I think a lot of this you kind of have, right? But you talk about in the book, you're like, everyone's a VIP, right? Listen, there's these things that I don't care if we're at a social function or we've been at a golf tournament together. We're down in Mexico together. We've been at a business meeting, one of your business events. You have this amazing ability. I don't know if it's that the person in front of you is like the most important person in the world at that time, but what is this charisma thing you do so well?

1:19:54It's innate. And I talk about it in my book. I think that the fact that I was born with the terminal blood disease that I survived, the fact that I was the oldest, like the circumstances that make us as people, right? Like you get things that, good and bad, right? And then we have the power of the mind to change that or to accept it and make ourselves better, right? But because I was born with all those things and because I was the first child and the first grandchild, I had a lot of love. And one of the things that my parents did really well is they made me feel so good and so confident and just about everything I did, that I was born with an innate confidence in myself.

1:20:36Interesting. And then it was taking that confidence, and when you have confidence, you have charisma. I mean, not always, but if you have confidence, you have charisma, right? Are you ever intimidated when you're in a room? I mean, just so you guys know, this guy sold the first$100 million house ever. Michael Jackson's house, Michael Jordan's house. If you know somebody probably pretty famous, this Moe's probably had something to do with a real estate deal. Do you ever? Because I think a lot of people are like, I've got to walk into this board meeting. I'm intimidated. I've got a sales call with this client.

1:21:06I'm intimidated. Even your agents that work for you, I'm sure there's, have you ever had that or is it that confidence that, is it I know who I am, I'm loved, I believe in myself? No, I've definitely been intimidated, and I've been intimidated walking into meetings, and I've had fear making a call when I have to deliver bad news, and everything that everybody feels I've had, and I'm not resilient to that. There's no innateness in that. But you've taught me a lot about that, and it's all about the power of the mind. You can change that. And so I can tell you that my morning routine, when I'm getting ready to do something, whatever it is that I'm going to do, like today, I'm going to be on your show.

1:21:46That's such an exciting and amazing thing for me. I could not be more excited. So I woke up this morning. I had a lot to do this morning. I woke up a little extra this morning. I skipped my workout, and I did my meditation, right? Because I didn't have enough time, right? But I'm like, okay, what am I going to do? What am I going to accomplish today with you on the show, right? And so you can work through your mind, right, to make sure that when you're in a situation, you deliver, right? And so, I mean, I had a story one time when I was showing a property of the Amir of Qatar, right? And the Amir of Qatar arrived, and I had no idea.

1:22:23I really didn't know who was arriving. I mean, I kind of knew it was a big deal, but, Ed, eight police motorcycles, you know, six police cars, seven black SUVs. Really? And boom, you know, like the Amir of Qatar is there looking at the house, right? And I was like, okay. And the security service would not let me near him, right? These guys were all, you know, 6 '6 giants. I mean, that wasn't one small guy. So I'm sitting there in the room and I'm trying to show the emir the house. But the guys wouldn't let me be near him. So I felt like I was talking through walls, right? Like jumping up and down, trying to get - It's hard to make a connection that way.

1:23:09To the connection, right? So finally, after two rooms that I'm showing the house, I say to the emir, I go, Sir, are you enjoying the house? Would you like me to show you the house or not? He goes, yeah, so far I like it a lot. I go, okay, would you mind asking your Secret Service to give me some space so that I can actually show you and sell you the house? And he loved that, right? He did. And so it's that confidence that allows you to break that barrier. Interesting. Right? Interesting. I am picturing you doing that. Just so you know, he's perfectly suited to do this, you guys. Absolutely perfectly suited.

1:23:47We're going to go into all kinds of stuff in the book. I want to talk about a couple of stories, too. but is there something that you do better than anyone at terms of like that process of closing and persuading? When you're showing a home, for example, are you trying to project them? You say something in the book about creating an emotional moment. This is like brilliant, by the way. Are you conscious of that? Like is that, because you put it in the book, right? Yeah. What do you mean when you say that? Yeah, I'm definitely conscious of that. And I think, you know, in terms of like, what do I do better than most?

1:24:16You know, I don't know if I do anything better than everyone. I think people are geniuses and there's amazing people that do extraordinary things. But one of the things that I do best is what I call reading the room. You have it in the book, yeah. Explain that. And what that means is really just understanding your audience. And when you're understanding your audience and you can understand their emotions and you can look at them and you can actually read what's going through their brain, then that gives you the opportunity to create an emotional moment. Got it. Right? And so when you create an emotional moment, that's when you can make a sale.

1:24:51That's when you can get somebody. But again, that doesn't happen by accident. It has to happen by, you have to make it happen. So one of the things that I do before I show a property or I'm going to have a meeting is I go on somebody's LinkedIn. I go on their bio. I understand who my audience is. Are they philanthropists? Are they male chauvinists? What is this human being that's in front of me? right? Like, um, do they have kids? Do they have dogs? Do they have horses? Do they like golf? Like what's going on with these people before I have that meeting? Now I've got background, right? Now I'm in the room.

1:25:26I am not automatically showing off that I have background on them. I'm not giving them the fact to them to know that I have background on them. I'm just, you know, now talking to you, right? I'm showing you the house. I'm talking to you. I'm getting to know you, right? But the leading questions that I'm asking you are so prepared because I already know a little bit about you, right? If I know you like horses, right? I'm not asking you, you know, if you like giraffes, right? My questions start becoming around equestrian to get you to open up about, you know, something I already know you love, right?

1:25:59Now I break the barrier, right? I start eventually breaking down that barrier and creating a moment between you and I, right? And that's what I call those emotional moments. They can be physical, right? Which is just setting up, the senses, the house, the smell, the beautiful flowers, whatever the physicality is, those senses. Or it could be the emotional moment and get to somebody in that way. And that's when it can become really powerful. Mo, that's so good. I'm sitting there thinking, man, that's really, really good in every single industry. Because we said about confidence earlier. Confidence comes from preparation.

1:26:37And so maybe if someone's listening to go, I don't have that natural confidence that I wasn't raised like Mo was raised. that preparation really can give you confidence for whatever the meeting is you're about to go into. I want to unpack that. The other thing too, is that most people don't do the preparation, so they don't have that. And then they reverse. I just thought about something because I've watched people do this, even that have sold me things. They've done the preparation and then they feel this need to let me know they've done it. And then it loses the connection. I've done my background on you, sir.

1:27:04And I'm like, they think that impresses you, but then it's, it robs us of the emotional moment because you can't ask these questions. because now I think you're kind of reading off cue cards almost. Really good. Yeah. You do not need to let your client or the person you're trying to. It is one of the beautiful things that I wrote. I'm in real estate. Right. And so I talk about houses and real estate stories and residential and some of the most expensive real estate in the world, right? But that's given me the opportunity to meet some of the most influential people in the world. But it's not about real estate.

1:27:36It's about life. And it's about professions. and it's about, and you know, it doesn't matter if you're in the service industry. You know, I say that all the time. I mean, you know, for somebody like you and I, how easy would it be for a hotel to just, you know, find out what your favorite tequila is, right? Or if you like tequila or if you like vodka, like that'd be pretty easy, right? It's not that hard to figure that out today, right? Even if they send a questionnaire, right? Even if it's not, they're not using extra stuff. But how much better would your experience be if you arrived at a hotel and they handed you your favorite drink, right?

1:28:10They handed you, you know, they had the right smell, you know, whatever it is in your room that you were paying a fortune for at that hotel or even, you know, not a fortune, you know, a moderate hotel. It's not that hard to give you a little bit of an extra experience, but nobody does it. It doesn't exist. And it really wouldn't be very difficult. See, now you're getting in the minds and the strategies of the elite of the elite at what they do because you're a billion percent right. You just made me flash to the three or four experiences recently I've had where they did do that and I'm going back there.

1:28:47I'm patronizing that business again. I'm going to be a repeat customer. And I've told people about it so I've shared the business. I've done their marketing for them when you do these little things. This is the nuanced stuff. The other thing though is you got to have some guts. I knew this story about when you worked for the Hiltons, which is in Kyle's family and your family. But you tell this amazing story in the book. I think there's a lot of people sitting there right now, brother, that are like, I have this dream. I want to pursue it. But I'm afraid to leave where I am. There's a lot of risk.

1:29:18There's fear. I also don't want to let down someone who's been pretty good to me or whatever. They have all these things they do. And so I knew the nature of your story of how the agency got started. but most people don't. And so, and it really, it's a lesson on what to do and what not to do on a lesson to do on your side. And maybe when you're leading somebody, what not to do. And I've told you before we got, I said, I'm kind of surprised you put this in the book because it's a, this is a book of stuff, man, this book is legit. And so take them through your, we're going to start in real estate, even though there was business before this, tell them who you worked for, why it matters who it was, and then what ended up happening that finally helped you give birth to this dream that now everybody knows you from.

1:30:04Yeah. Well, you know, one of the important things that I always talk about and kind of where the original concept of my book comes from is that when doors close, you have the ability to create another open one, right? Like, and so it's like, boom, something closes on you. You know, I got fired from a job, like, boom, I got into real estate, right? Like instead of going into a hole and not coming out, it's like I used that getting fired from one industry from the fashion and going into real estate. So cut to I'm in real estate now. I got my real estate license. I'm working for – I get a job working for my brother-in-law, for Rick Hilton at Hilton and Highland, one of the best firms in the world.

1:30:45And I still think from a luxury perspective, it was one of the best firms in the world. it's broken up recently and so unfortunately it's just not there but I can tell you that during the history hard to beat that okay and you know they gave me an opportunity they opened a door they gave me an opportunity to work I nailed it I kicked some ass I ultimately became their number one salesperson I ultimately became I was responsible at one point for 20 % of their business They had 100 agents. They did a billion dollars that year, and I personally did 200 million, 193 of it, like 19.3 % of their business.

1:31:34And I went to Rick, who was my brother-in-law. And I basically – and again, I want to make sure that everybody's super clear. This is a story of just life, and I am not ragging on him. They gave me amazing opportunities, and they gave me stuff to do. And the reason I chose to tell the story is just because it's just real and it's true. And if it didn't happen like this, I just wouldn't have opened the agency. I wouldn't be where I am today. And in a way, I'm thankful it happened like this. So this is not a negative thing. I'm not dissing, okay? I want to be super clear. It's just the way life works that allows you to make certain decisions that I probably wouldn't have made had it not gone down this way, right?

1:32:14Right. So I'm 20 % of their business, and I say to Rick, I say, Rick, I really want to help you grow, right? And at that time, Paris was the hottest star on the planet. Paris Hilton. Paris Hilton. Right. Hottest star on the planet, right? Who's your niece? Who's my niece? Right. And so I said to Rick, I said, Rick, you've got to take advantage right now of your name. I go, let's dump the Highland name. Jeff Highland will still be your partner. I'm not saying don't dump Jeff. He's your partner. Like, dump the Highland name. make it Hilton real estate. Let me help you grow it. And let's go franchise Hilton real estate all around the world.

1:32:51Right? And let me help you grow it. Which is in essence the playbook for the agency. I know. Right? And I go, let's go do that. Right? He goes, well, you know, I don't really want to do that. You know, we're a boutique firm. We're a luxury firm. I never want to be bigger than that. Which, by the way, kudos. Amazing for him. Love that. And that's why I think it's one of the best, was one of the best brands because they stuck to who they were. sure. Okay. So amazing brand. They stick to who they are. He go, I said, okay, I get that, but I really want to help you grow. And I want to like, I want, you know, like you're in New York, you're not working that hard.

1:33:25Like, let me be your partner. Right. And let me be your boots on the ground. I'm 20 % of your business. And so he said, yes, no problem. I'll let you do that. But I don't want you to get, you know, into our books and I don't want you to like, you know, get into that whole world. So, you know, rather than making you an equity partner, I'm just going to give you a percentage of gross sales. Yeah, gross. Right? And so he offers me a percentage of gross sales, and I accept, and probably less than I would have wanted to, but I accept it because I just wanted, at that point, the recognition. Right? Like, it was more about, like, I'm busting my ass.

1:34:02I really just want the recognition. I'm 20 % of your company, you know, and you're not that present. Right? I mean, like, it's the reality, right? So he says, fine. No problem. I say, fine. No problem. I accept the deal. Put a little term sheet together. We do a deal term sheet. We go forward. You know, families, we don't go into heavy, you know, legal, just a term sheet, right? Boom. We go forward. Well, the next year, you know, 18 months later, the next year, recession. 2008, crash, recession. In the meantime, I had the best year of my life. I kept growing because I took advantage of the recession and I took advantage of, you know, double downing and, you know, being a contrarian.

1:34:45I kept growing. I had an extraordinary year. And I get a phone call from Rick and he says, hey, you know, it's a recession. We're not making any money. We actually lost money. It's really unfair if I'm paying you money and, you know, and I'm not earning any money. Right. And I great time for me. I said, you know, I said to him, well, Rick, you know, no problem. I totally get it. I go, take what you owe me and make me a partner in the ups and the downs. Make me an equity partner. I'm in. When we lose, we lose together. When we win, we win together. That's what I want. And so the answer was no. And rather than fighting it and rather than going after him, because the family is more important than business.

1:35:33and my wife's family, her sister, her nieces mean everything to her and I did not want to get in the way of that so I just let it be. I lost, you know, one of the lessons that we learn when we're really young in life is that life's not always fair. You go into your parents, you know you were right, your parents didn't see the whole thing and they just tell you, dude, you're in trouble, go to your f***ing room and you know what, life's not fair. You're in your room, right? So you got sent to your room. So I got sent to my room. Life's not fair. I accept it. It's not fair. But I'm not going to fight it.

1:36:09I'm not going to fight for fair. I'm going to just accept it. Right? But what did that do? That got me thinking. Right? And I was an entrepreneur, and I wanted to do my own thing, and I wanted to put this business plan that I put in front of Rick, and I wanted to do it myself. And thus, you know, the beginning and the birth of the agency. Right? And that's, in essence, what the agency is. Are you all hearing this? I want to keep going. But so a couple of things. One, he got sent to his room. And what he did is he looked out the window and said, hey, maybe I could go build my own mansion, my own business.

1:36:40That's lesson number one. Lesson number two for me is, you know, that when you do have a rainmaker in your organization, when you do have somebody really making it go for you, make sure you take care of them, even in the good and the bad times, because ultimately, if you don't, they can leave you. The third thing that's most important for all of you is the agency, which is, to me, the biggest real estate brand on the planet right now, the fastest growing agency in the world, was born in a recession. And so a lot of you that are out there going, this is the worst time to start a business or it's a difficult time.

1:37:08Everyone always says, well, so many great businesses were built during a recession. I'm sitting in front of a man who's built an iconic brand, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate sold that started during a recession, correct? That is 100 % correct. Yeah, that's pretty powerful. Anything on that you would add to the story or want to bring full circle? Yeah, no, I think you've nailed it. And again, the idea of building a business, and it's not only about building a business, it's about building yourself. So for example, if you're in real estate and you're a salesperson, you're running your own business.

1:37:45You don't need to own a brokerage firm to build and create your own amazing business. and there's an opportunity to go get more listings and an opportunity to go get all this. All of that can happen during a recession because when everything is amazing, people don't want to change. Everything's amazing. When things are bad, you're open to change. You're right. Why can't I sell this? Why can't I buy this? Why can't I... I'm open to change. I'm willing to try new stuff. So the time to build is actually... That's not necessarily the time you're going to make money. Right? You're not going to necessarily make money in the recession.

1:38:22You're going to build and gain market share in a recession. Wow. When you come out of the recession is when you're going to bring in all the money. Wow. That's one of my favorite things ever said on the show right there. No one has ever said that to me before. And that's a billion, trillion percent exactly what happens. You're gaining market share, and then you collect the checks when the recession ends. Man, that's really good.

1:39:18We'll see you next time. with saunas, steam rooms, cold plunges, and more. Everything you need to lock in and unlock your potential at Equinox. Start today at equinox.com.

1:39:32This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, Give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.