Jordan Belfort: Sales, Redemption, and Building an Extraordinary Life

22:51Jordan Belfort:it's funny you say that because it's like it's like literally like dead on balls accurate so like when i teach people like you know the art of prospect and gathering intelligence right you know one of the rules is you want to you know go from big picture questions to smaller picture questions less invasive questions to more like the first question you ask someone if you're trying to get someone to invest in the stock market. I mean, how much money do you have in the bank? It's like, so, you know, how long have you been in the market? How long have you been in the market for? What are you typically like?

23:20Jordan Belfort:You like tech? You like questions to anybody with answer. Ask four or five of those. And by the way, what do you typically put into an idea? You know, ballpark. And how much do you have in the market? They'll tell you, right? So, all these rules, but one of the key rules, and there's two sides to this, is I'm going to take it even a layer deeper. Absolutely. It's about keeping a logical progression and asking these follow ups, like unpacking, not ping ponging. Someone asks you a question, they give you get an answer. If that answer dictates a follow up, you need to follow up on that question and dig a bit deeper to get to the next layer.

23:56Jordan Belfort:And in addition to that, if you want to really impress people is almost when someone says something and you should be an expert in what you're selling in the field, whatever problem you're trying to solve, you want to clarify what they said in a way that makes it even more powerful. So you mirror back to them. So let me understand this. And then if you really have some insights of industry insight, even explain it more to them. Like exactly. Boom. Then they're like, holy this guy gets it. He knows. Wow. And you can really impress people. So you're not only following up with more questions, you're also clarifying what they said and even maybe giving insight, not insight.

24:34Jordan Belfort:It's something, even the ability to show tidbits of industry knowledge, it keeps building you up in their mind as an expert, he's a real expert versus being a novice or just like someone in the middle. So yeah, keeping this logical flow, making sure that you ask follow-ups. Don't ask them if they're nothing to follow up on, but when they're obviously there, you want to ask them. And you also want to make sure that you are communicating back to them, that you understand them, and that maybe you even are adding value right from there by clarifying their statements and adding on even other problems.

25:05Jordan Belfort:And so you might also be then running into this, correct? Yeah, exactly. So last sales question. This is so good. I wasn't going to ask you this one, but since you said it, you said expert, right? What about just the mindset of your approach? Do you think if I'm in sales or anything, I sell cars, I own a dry cleaners and you walk in, it doesn't matter. That's still a form of sales, right? Do you believe that the mindset I should have, if I'm a realtor, let's just say, I assume the mindset of an authority in that industry? I think this escapes most people. I'm like, I don't know if this person really is any good.

25:44If I'm going to have knee surgery, I don't want it to be your third one. I want a great knee surgeon, right? So do you think as a salesperson, one of the key things is to assume the role, the mindset, the posture of an authority, like just being an authority in your industry, or do you not buy into that?

26:03Jordan Belfort:No, it's an absolute must. And I'll tell you why. It's one of the things that holds a lot of people back, especially in the beginning, because the key is, is that human beings intuitively, we learn, we know what experts are supposed to look like and sound like. And we also know what they don't look like and sound like. We know that. And we've been exposed to this since we're very small. When we were very young, if we were sick, our parents took us to a doctor. And we noticed how the doctor dressed a certain way, acted a certain way. Even our own parents deferred to the doctor. He had diplomas on the wall, and everyone treated him with respect because he had gone to school for many years and learned everything there was to know about making sick people better.

26:45Jordan Belfort:And when you went in to see the doctor, what did he do? He started asking you questions and examining you. and when he asked you a question, you didn't say, well, why do you want to know that, doc? How about this? No, you answer his questions honestly and forthrightly. Why? Because he's an expert. And then he asked you a series of questions. And then when he was done, he didn't say, okay, have a nice day. You're like, what? He said, okay, well, based on what you said, let me tell you here's what's going on. He tells you what's happening, then gives you a prescription, if necessary, a procedure, whatever it might be, and gives you the solution.

27:16Jordan Belfort:So we look at him. That's how we've been trained all life. when we were growing up, if we wanted to learn a sport, our parents would hire us a coach who was an expert, a tutor. When we got older into business, if you had problems, you would hire a lawyer, an accountant. We seek out experts to help us solve our problems and eliminate pain points. And when we're in the presence of someone, and here's the important thing, that we believe to be an expert, we defer. We allow the expert to control the flow of the encounter. That's what we do. When we are in the presence of someone we believe is a novice, we will try to control the encounter and cut them off, take them out into Pluto, and all bad things start to happen.

27:59Jordan Belfort:Now, the problem is, is that when people start in an industry and start in sales, they feel like, well, I'm not an expert selling cars yet, so I really can't sound like one until I am a b****. Okay? Put me on a call, and I'll sound like a f****** expert like in 10 minutes. Now, believe me, the night before I'd be up for 12 hours learning everything about cars. And I'm not saying to lie. I'm saying you want to actually act as if you better become an expert and close that gap really quick. But there is absolutely nothing that you need. So you don't have to, like, pretend to be a novice. You could act like one before you're one and then quickly close that knowledge gap.

28:44Jordan Belfort:And conversely, I know a lot of people who are stone cold experts and sound like novices and they can't sell their way out of a paper bed. So it's not so much being one, it's sounding like one. But then, of course, you want to become one and not. You don't want this to be like just a facade. You need to be an expert. You guys, this is so good. I got to tell you, like, why did you not? I just want to remind the audience of this. I'll tell you this, too. My dad was an alcoholic drug addict until I was 15. And then my dad got sober. And like anybody who gets sober, typically there's someone who helps you or becomes your sponsor or whatever it is.

29:18The guy who helped my dad get sober was sober himself 31 days. That's it. So he was not an expert. But what he was is he cared. What he did is he sounded like an expert. But he wasn't one. So a lot of you think that you've got to have, you know, you've got to be the best in the world at what you do. Yeah, you do eventually. But in the interim, you can still make a lot of sales. You can still help a lot of people. One of those sales on getting sober was my dad from a dude who was only sober 31 days. And I'm sitting here with all of you guys today, I think in large part because that did happen with my dad.

29:51So just remember the ripple effect of helping one person even in the beginning of your career. Now here's what is the best part about everything Jordan teaches. Then we're going to shift gears to AI in a second, which is ethical selling. And I think just because of the wolf of Wall Street, like if they didn't encounter you the last trillion years since the movie, right? and seen your work, which there are people here today that haven't, we're not talking about manipulation here. We're not talking about trying to get somebody to do something that's not good for them. I just want you to speak to that because any time in the world now where you start teaching people how to persuade or communicate, even like how I was raised, ah, I got it.

30:31It's all like sleight of hand and trickeration over here. But that's not what we're talking about. There's a few parts to that, so clearly that's not that.

30:38Jordan Belfort:And I always say, you're not using the straight line system. You're not using it because you want to get people to do things they shouldn't do or buy things they shouldn't buy. It's the opposite, right? It's about getting people to overcome these internal and mostly irrational barriers they have to taking action to get things they actually should get and solve problems they need to solve. There are some people, for example, that have what I call a very high action threshold. Their belief systems, their experiences as such, the way they're just wired, makes it very difficult for them to make a decision.

31:14Jordan Belfort:They will torture themselves. They're painfully slow when it comes to decisions. And they hate salespeople. They don't want to be persuaded. And very often, those people go through life lacking a lot of things they need and don't have their problems solved. My dad was one of them. I love me. He's a wonderful dad. But he hated salespeople, which is pretty funny, right? And ironic, at least. Ironically, though, it was just that people like that, you go, well, how do they buy sh**? Like if they're that top? Well, they buy things when they're f**king desperate. And when the pain gets so bad, then suddenly that action threshold drops.

31:49Jordan Belfort:Right? So like, but once they buy from someone, that's their guy. Like my dad, he had his car guy. Like Vinny was a, it was car guy. Vinny at the f**king Sunoco station. The local, like no one's touching my dad's Dodge Dart, but Vinny. Like if Enzo Ferrari said, Max, I'm going to fix your car for free. I'm going to make it. Enzo, don't touch my car. Okay. Only Vinny can. That was my dad with everything. Now, I'll tell you a great story, though. You know, when I was about 12, and he was like that with everything. He had a car guy. He had a shirt guy. He had one barber. Every one guy for everything.

32:23Jordan Belfort:And they could be ripping his eyeballs out, overcharged. Vinny's my guy. And that's that. Right. Because they don't want. That's how it happens. Right. New York to Florida, New York to Williamsburg, whatever it was. We were like three hours outside of New York, on the way down south, and we're like not great part of the country, like hillbilly, and my father's car overheats. It's myself, my mother, my brother, my dad's driving the Dodge Dart, right? And smoke starts coming out of the radiator, and it's like 5.30 p.m., and the sun's like start to set. And you know what my dad did? He went to the first gas station he could find and said, fix my car.

33:06Jordan Belfort:I don't care how much it costs. It could have said the name of the gas station could have been Dewey, Cheatham and Howe. And he still would have done it because at that point, I worry he was feeling causing action threshold to drop to zero. Just fix it. I don't care. Right now in persuasion, we can use that to help people like my father make great decisions that they should be making by, you know, by uncovering what are their pain points? What are they really worried about? What is that deep worry that rests at the base of their skull and keeps them up all night long? And the way you get that, uncover that is through intelligence gathering, by asking questions and digging deeper as we were speaking about.

33:47Jordan Belfort:And once you have that information, you don't want to say, oh, I saw a problem or something. No, I'm not just saying. You want to amplify that. Let them really understand what is costing them, what the problem is, what's holding them back. And then you want to reserve that. And later on in the conversation, when they're really in that point, they won't make a good decision. You say, listen, let me ask you this. And you reintroduce that pain. Let them understand what's truly at stake. It's very powerful. Masterclass, everybody. You're welcome. You're welcome. This is so good. I mean, I'm actually processing this thinking.

34:18I love when I'm in the middle of doing a podcast. I'm like, this is going to download like crazy because the content is so good.

34:23Jordan Belfort:Ed, you do all this automatically. You are a great communicator, right? So what happens is all the things I'm saying are part of the straight line system. So it's a system. But what happens is great communicators, great closers, they do all this. They do it unconsciously. Yeah, and some of it, by the way, some of it is actually consciously. And so also when you're a professional communicator and you hear someone speak truthfully about how to do it correctly, it's a validation. You're like, I do that. That's true for me. I see all this online guru stuff from these sales trainers, and I'm like, that's just crap.

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35:52Experience more on your travels with Amex Business Gold. Terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash business dash gold. Amex Business Gold Card. Built for business by American Express. You're talking about, you know, I resonate with so much. So a little bit of a name dropper thing. I want to shift a little bit because we only have too much time. But you're doing stuff in AI right now, you were telling me off camera, where you got some huge success in that lane already as well. So it's an ironic Leo thing. I was sitting at an event about five months ago, and Leo was sitting next to me who played you in the movie, right?

36:25And by the way, he's not a talkative dude until you get the ball rolling a little bit. Great guy, by the way. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. I got to know him that night. He's a terrific guy. Did you tell him that you know me?

36:36Jordan Belfort:Because we're friends. Of course I did. How do you think I bridged the gap? I dropped your name. Of course I did. And there's another actor there that's actually a really good friend of mine, which also helped. But anyway, I asked them both. I said, what's different in the movie business than, say, five, ten years ago? And like they both their heads almost dropped like, oh, bro, like streaming's changed everything. Number one, the way we shoot the movies. But he said, I said, what's the biggest one? And he goes, it's just starting, but it's AI. And he goes, the way movies are going to be shot, what budgets we're going to be allowed to do, how scenes are set up, how writing is going to be done.

37:14It's a real tsunami coming to our industry, and I don't know where it's all going to land. And then I started to think about what we do, meaning anything sales-related, anything anyone's doing. You know, like, I certainly wouldn't mind being a plumber right now because I think those dudes are safe. But, like, what are your overall thoughts or advice to people listening about this thing coming our way called AI when it comes to sales, but also just, you know, entrepreneurship in general? You've obviously decided to get out in front of this, cram course. When I met you, if I said you'd be coding the morning that we're doing my podcast someday, you'd be like, what the heck is coding?

37:53Like, there's no way. So take them through kind of what you've done to get in front of it and your thoughts on it.

37:59Jordan Belfort:I got into artificial intelligence maybe it was about two years ago, a little bit more maybe, right? We run people's sales operations and advise them, right? And they were trying to – some company – I forgot the name of it. Maybe it was Air AI or something. Oh, we have a sales agent that's an AI, and it can go out there and close sales and do lead generation. And I didn't even hear about it directly. Someone else got pitched at the company and then sent it to me. I said, well, let me hear it. And it sucked. Terrible, right? Then I went and looked at the pricing. The pricing was ridiculous back then, right?

38:36Jordan Belfort:But it was not good. The latency was terrible, and you could fool it in two seconds. It would say stupid shit, right? But that was the first shot across the bow. Maybe it was almost two and a half years ago, maybe even three. Wow. So it was early, right? It was before it was when chat GBT, it was like 3.0. Maybe it was like a real life, but I'm always very nice to AI. So when they rule us, it's not going to kill me. You know, Oh, I love my life. Right. Right. A friend of mine, good friend of mine, a top VC Shervin Pishivar and I, he's a good friend. We were out for dinner. I told him this and I said, you know, if we could build an AI, imagine me, imagine if I could have a digital twin Jordan that knew everything and we could teach this thing to sell like me, that would be fricking amazing.

39:15Jordan Belfort:And so began this venture. Okay. We first funded it ourselves. And I spent about a year just wasting money because I had to learn about technology. All right. And engineers and good ones and bad ones. But I went on a massive crash course. I'm really tech. I am so technical. You wouldn't even believe it. How technical I am about artificial intelligence, coding and architecture. I had to because I'm a believer in any business you're in. If you don't know that business, you don't know the interest. You are going to get slammed. Your people will lie to you. Not that they need to, but you can't tell fact from fiction, blah, blah, blah.

39:54Jordan Belfort:And then I got lucky in the sense that the tailwinds. And I knew this wasn't really luck. I knew that the AI would improve. The models would improve. That was obvious to me. So I always built it from the sense that I'm not worried. I'm not building this application for what AI can do today. I'm trying to catch this when it's ready in a year and a half from now. So I didn't go into this trying to build a sales agent that can get on a telephone call and qualify a lead. I didn't do that. I have that, and we do that. We have a company that does that. That's a child's play. It's nothing, right? Okay, do it in two seconds, right?

40:27Jordan Belfort:I said, I want to build an AI that can freaking close a complex sale, carry on a conversation over two months if it has to do with callbacks, texting, email, persistent memory, an omni-channel agent that can actually handle a conversation, complex insurance, financial services, mortgages, and literally close like me. When it's still, people don't think it's still, we do it, okay? And it's still not quite ready, just to be clear. It's like another two months away from full enterprise ready. So we're still in stealth mode, right? Because it's very difficult to do that, like what I'm saying. It's not like it is not whatever you think about AI.

41:09Jordan Belfort:These things are Einstein and Forrest Gump at the same time. That's what they are. OK, and you can't where people most mostly fall down with this stuff is the model is only one part of it. OK, you need a very complex architecture around the model with persistent memory, state management, routers that keep the model honest. It's all these different is a very complex application. and once you have that architecture, then you can start handling conversation that can run 30 minutes, an hour. You can have a conversation that goes eight minutes and you know, can you call me back at three o 'clock this afternoon?

41:44Jordan Belfort:I got it. Sure, no problem. And it remembers where you are, picks up where it left off and sends you a text in the middle, calls you back in a week, collects dot. So that's what I've been building with my team. But the plan is, well, you know, we're already post revenue, but we're really launching now over the next 30 days, big scaling. And then we're going to do a Series A at the end of probably, hopefully, May or June. My partner is a massive player in the VC space. He may be an Airbnb, Uber, Airbnb, you know, a Robin. He's a big player. So we'll partner. I have a great team. A great team. I've got 15 engineers full time.

42:19Jordan Belfort:By the way, remember whose son helped you with your golf clubs. Just what I'm saying. I want to know, that sounds good for you and sounds good for the world. Doesn't sound so good if I were in real estate or insurance, though, right? What's your overall 30 ,000-foot view? Because, look, let's be honest. We also make money from people that are in the sales industry as well. But what would you say to somebody who's sitting there going, uh-oh, uh-oh, what do I do now? I'm in my car right now driving to my sales appointment, and am I going to be replaced by a robot? Yeah, yeah. So here's what I would say.

43:00Jordan Belfort:I give Google so much credit and so much respect because that's the classic, you know, the innovators dilemma. Right. In other words, they owns the search market. And if you're going to have a suddenly making general search with ads obsolete or semi obsolete or not, you know, the first thing you want to do, which is true. Right. Google would say, well, I'm not going to put a eye into my search. they did and they put you notice they did a very smart thing that's brilliant that's a that's what companies up with they say i'm holding on i have to protect what i have i'm not going to innovate and move forward i can't make myself obsolete and then someone else makes them obsolete okay now i will say this that right there not interrupt you that right there all you entrepreneurs that's a huge lesson what he just said right there don't protect territory trying to remain you know protect yourself from being obsolete because that's how you become it ask blockbuster video when they had a chance to just scoop up netflix for nine bucks so just just stay in there okay frame it differently if you don't disrupt yourself someone else will disrupt you wow say it like that right and so So yet, yet, their search revenue is still booming.

44:21Yeah, I know.

44:23Jordan Belfort:Like, okay, this is always going to be a need for salespeople. Always, always. Now, do I think things like lead gen is going to get commoditized? Yes. But there certainly are going to be AIs out there selling. It's very, very difficult to do. I am telling you, it is to get an AI to really have a sales conversation. They're not designed for that. And I'll tell you why. Because to be a great salesperson, you need to be in control of the conversation. And the way you get into control is by being perceived as an expert. By being perceived as an expert on the ball, sharp, enthusiastic, people will defer, allow you to control the flow of a conversation, which allows you then to ask questions in a certain way, present in a certain way, and allows you to take what would otherwise be a chaotic conversation that could go in a million directions and move it down the straight line.

45:20Jordan Belfort:That's the straight line system, right? The guy is designed the opposite. You ask it a question, it gives you an answer. It's reactive. Yeah, good point. And to be a great salesperson, you're going to be proactive. So it's very, very difficult to get artificial intelligence to sell well. really requires a massive amount of architecture, prompting, prompt engineering, context engineering, right? But the point is, we are at something called the singularity, where you can't look past the horizon, the meta horizon and say, I don't know what the f*** is going to happen in five years from now. But what I do know is this, nothing is certain, but with great certainty is that a lot of the jobs that we have right now, yeah, they're going to be replaced, but there'll be more jobs created.

46:12Jordan Belfort:And I think that there's going to be a shift. I think it's so much easier right now to be an entrepreneur. It is so much easier now to start businesses, to do whatever you want to do cheaply, effectively, efficiently. And AI can be a great mentor, but the problem is they won't tell you everything is good, which is really problematic. In other words, if you don't, collaborating with an AI is an art. I collaborate with, I have like multiple AIs and I'm on these high, very high level plans. I'm on all these pro level plans and I have APIs into them for unlimited usage, right? With the highest level of intelligence.

46:49Jordan Belfort:But if you don't, if you're not an expert yourself, it's gonna tell you everything is good. Every idea is perfect, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't work out that way. But what I can do is if you know what you're doing or at least have, if you're careful and you work with it, And you learn the art of essentially how do you prompt an AI? How do you actually keep it going in the direction, right? How do you let it play devil's advocate or even have two? One is one you say, listen, someone gave me this idea. It's the stupidest idea. Just tell me why this is not good. Why is this the stupidest, dumbest idea I've ever heard?

47:19Jordan Belfort:And what idea is creating the idea for helping you? They're one saying how bad it is. And then you've got to start to see the truth because you only have them tell you how good it is. They'll just tell you, they'll find statistics. And if they don't exist, they'll make them up. Okay. But the point I'm making is this, to get back to your question, is that will some salespeople be replaced? Yeah, for sure. And there'll be new sales jobs created that are probably even higher paying and other things like that. But you can't live your life worrying about what's going to happen. You have to sit there and be on the edge of what's happening and disruptions are going to happen.

47:53All right. Speaking of living your life, this has been really tremendous. And this will be my last question for you. But to speak just on living life in general. This is more like a broad question, but I want to step back because I want people just to hear from you. There's two ways to live your life to me. There's the decision to be just average and ordinary and exist, which is what a lot of people settle into doing in their life. And then there's this other decision and a set of actions that go with it for life, which is what you've done. I mean, those of you that are on audio, you can't see this, but the view behind this man is like beautiful.

48:27He's chosen, even having been knocked down, even got incarcerated, he's chosen. I want to live an extraordinary life. I want to live greatly. I want to touch my potential. I want to have a great life rich of memories and friendships and all that. I'm just curious if you'd speak to that. Why should everybody choose to go as corny as it sounds, man? We're two dudes now halfway through our life probably. right, that have chosen to pursue our dreams and our life. And what's come with that is a lot of ups and downs, a lot of critics, a lot of crap, a lot of stress, the amount of which most people will never understand, the amount of work, the amount of huge lows and tremendous highs.

49:16Sell me on why I should pursue that life if I'm listening to it today. Here's what I would say.

49:24Jordan Belfort:Everyone has to have their own vision for their future, what they want. You know, go one extreme, Mother Teresa. Well, what was her, you know, what was her currency of value was helping people. She didn't care about money. It didn't matter to her. Money did not truly, that was not her value. Her value is how many people could I touch and help and soothe and heal, right? She's rich as Elon Musk in her own world, right? Now, you have other people, you know, like you and I, I mean, like, listen, I'll tell you this very simple. I've been a rich man and been extremely happy. I've been a rich man and been very unhappy, very miserable.

50:07I've been poor and very miserable as well.

50:11Jordan Belfort:But never once in my life since I'm an adult have I been poor and happy. It is a real issue. Now, I'm not saying you have to be the richest person in the world, but there's a certain amount of money you need to make. If you want to live a great life, if you want to really enjoy the finer things and really be able to go after your interests and have free time and have good medical care, a nice place to live, take care of your family, your children, donate to the places and the causes that you believe in and just have fun, then there's going to be a certain amount of money you need to make. That number is up to you.

50:47Jordan Belfort:It's different for everybody. What I would say is this, you got to get first very clear on what your vision for the future is. Where do you want to be? Where do you see yourself in five years? What life do you want? And then you better make sure that your desire, you have that vision, your standard, your work ethic is congruent with that. If you know you have champagne vision and a beer work ethic, a beer standard, it ain't going to work out so well. All right. Bottom line. So good. This has been such, I'm really glad we did it. This has been like a really great conversation. Thank you, by the way, for doing this today on a Saturday.

51:25You guys, yeah, I want to see you in person again. Take your money on the golf course. You guys, go get Straight Line Sales Course, which is his course. He's also got a book called The Wolf of Investing, which could help you with the latter part that he just talked about. And share this episode, you guys. I bet you this is a side of Jordan not all of you have heard or seen before, and that's what I wanted to accomplish today. It's the side that I've seen and the one that I like. So, Jordan, thanks, brother. It was great. God bless you. Max out. This is the Ed Myland Show.

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52:35Jordan Belfort:Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. when you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store your items arrive on time or your money back guaranteed at no extra cost exclusively at the UPS Store U.S. retail locations visit the upsstore.com slash air shipping for full details terms and conditions apply send your mother's day gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get your gratitude there on time