Master of Me: Keke Palmer Reveals How She Took Control of Her Life & Story

25:22I'm a black person. I'm a woman. I'm, you know, whatever that you could say that would be like, oh, that could be tough. But instead of looking at those things as things that make my life harder, I look at what make those things unique that make my life better, that make me sharper, that make me think differently, that give me a different perspective, that makes me more ahead than the next person because they don't have my life experience. And I think that's important that we all do that. And it seems really difficult, but that is how you master yourself because what mastering yourself truly is, is mastering your mind.

25:56It's mastering your mind and deciding how you choose to think about things. Look, I don't know when the lights cut out, if God is going to be standing there saying Kiki, welcome baby girl. I don't know. We, none of us know because ain't none of us died and came back. But if I've got to think about and believe something, I don't believe the that makes me think something good. believe something that's going to make me get up and keep going every day in this matrix that we got to live in oh my gosh in my book i'm not comparing books but i have the second chapter of my book is about that matrix i call it the matrix i use the same term and i talk about your mind even a part of your brain called the ras which we're not going to get into today but like i completely agree with you on that and so you use the word narrative part of my work is I really believe that we as humans will do everything on our power to live in congruency or consistently with the story we tell ourselves.

26:49Yeah. And that's, so that thing you said a minute ago, I don't want it to slide by everybody. It would be easy to say, well, I'm a black woman. I was young. I had this, I had a sexual issue when I was young. And so because of that, I'm, I'm out of the game. It's not going to win. Or in my case, not to this, not the same extent, but I'd welfare when I was a little boy, dad was a drug addict and alcoholic, not the same thing, but I could make my own story up as to why I'm okay. Justifying being average and ordinary or screwed up myself. So that part of the work in the book is about this narrative.

27:23What's one thing you wish every human being knew that all the heroes have trauma, all of them. that's why narrative and storytelling is so important to me you know that's why we want that's if people want to know why marvel movies are so popular and even more popular now is because people can people feel like yeah my my aunt passed away i didn't have my parents you know i'm an orphan like harry i'm a you know so-and-so like whoever like we you know i'm an outcast like deadpool i don't fit the system whatever it is like that's the point of it like it's hard to to believe sometimes when you're living in that, you know what I mean?

28:03Because your mind is telling you, everything is telling you that you're not the one, you're not going to make it. But Oprah Winfrey isn't Oprah Winfrey because of who she is today. She's who she is because of who she was in that small town before she could believe that she was going to be Oprah Winfrey. She was the girl that went through all that trauma, all that hardship. And, you know, that's what makes us, that's what made us love Oprah because she was somebody that was imperfect. And anybody that you love, anybody that has become inspiration. Tyler Perry, he lived in his car for years in New Orleans.

28:33Okay. Grew up in a hard home, didn't have a lot. And now he's one of the richest people in America. So it's like, that's the truth. The truth is, and I remember being a kid and, and looking at entertainers and saying, when I thought about what I had gone through, so-and-so went through that. That means, that means I'm amazing. That means I'm going to be great. I would actually believe, tell myself that because of any of the hardships that I'd gone through, what I'd been through, you know, that that's why I was going to get where I was going. Because that's the truth about heroes and people that do something greater than themselves.

29:12It's because of the, it's because of the trauma that it's that alchemizing of that, of that hardship that brings them to the, to where they are. Oh my gosh. So good. I told you, this isn't like you're just talking to some actors that wrote a little book you know i mean like this is this is the real stuff i wonder i know it's in the book but i'm gonna phrase it a certain way you kind of as an actress and i have enough friends that have done this young that have become you know been in the industry a long time you it's easy to become like a perfectionist in your industry right okay and the pressure to be perfect and if i there's one thing i see cost most people their dreams forget acting forget singing forget producing i'm talking about life it's this notion that they're gonna wait around to get started until they're perfect or they're afraid of making mistakes because of perfection and you're pointing at me like you agree if you're on the audio so will you talk about that for a minute yeah that is the most crippling thing in the world that is super duper crippling and it's like you know it's what we call when we say like perfectionism really is the is the is the fake face of procrastination and i try to tell you all the time that that's actually how you get where you're gonna go is through trial and error you have to do the thing like i remember thinking back when i first started doing like my dance videos or even when i started doing lady miss jacklyn it's this character that i do on my social media and people will be in the comments like what the is this because it was like looking little videos at first then eventually it went from like a little sketch to like a full length story to then a book with Amazon to then a one, they have gone so far, but I'd use that as an example here to say, like, if I would have just said to myself, oh, it ain't perfect.

30:58You know, I can't do it. Waiting for the money, waiting for the crew, waiting for the, I don't even know that I would have never had a moment of growth. You know what I'm saying? Like people got to be ready for growth. You have to have the opportunity to do something. So then you can look at it. You can read, okay, let me figure out how to do this, how to be a better producer, how to be a better writer, whatever the framework of what it is you're doing. If it's a product, you know, if it's a book, you got to write one for you can tell yourself it wasn't good enough. So I think it's like people have to know that, you know, it's like one of those things where it's a part of the process, you know, you cannot beat the process.

31:37You have to actually go through, you know, and learn and watch and see, you know, that's to me like a big part of it. So So in my mind, I think I've always had a really good support with my mother. Always reminded me of this where it's like, just do it, just do it. If it doesn't work out, you don't have to put it out. And if it does, then that's good. You know, and also I speak a lot about investments. I think, you know, in the book, I talk a lot about being an entrepreneur and that that doesn't always mean you're sitting on a bunch of cash. I think the conversation around entrepreneurialism has to change because you do need to be an entrepreneur in this day and age.

32:12And it doesn't mean you're sitting in the office of a building that you made. It's not this big, gigantic thing. It really means a diversified portfolio. And the reason why you need this is because you need to have personal autonomy and not feel completely crushed by the capitalistic overlord that we're all existing in. But if you have multiple avenues for work, it makes it easier to say no to things you don't want to say no to. And those multiple avenues don't have to be desk jobs or they can be. You can have a nine to five, but then do Uber on the weekends. Or you can work in a hair salon part time and then go work as a teacher's aide.

32:45You know, it's about I'm working right now on a movie and my prop guy also is a substitute teacher. He's an entrepreneur. That may not be the places that you're thinking when you're thinking entrepreneur, but that's an entrepreneur. And the reason why you have those jobs is so that when you do want to do something that you're not 100 percent sure in, you can weigh the cash balance for the investment. And you can say, well, if I'm going to put$5 ,000 into this idea, I have that to lose. And I can have a backup job or this backup thing. And I know this plan is going to happen. And when I get my money's worth, if it's a picture, a painting, a movie, a short film, whatever it is you're doing with that$5 ,000, you can look and you can see and you can weigh the options of how you maybe are going to get your money back.

33:30Or if this is going to be a proof of concept where you can go get some money from somebody else. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at GoodToKnowFacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit GoodToKnowFacts.org. See, one of my favorite parts of the book is this part, actually. And I want to ask you about that.

34:13Like for me, being an entrepreneur, I can't sing and I can't act. Well, I've done a little acting, but I definitely can't sing. And so part of my entrepreneurial journey, I've had lots of different businesses, but it's sort of like my art form, a way to express myself too. So like driving Uber, if that was my second, that's not, that's a way to hustle to generate cash. But like, I also encourage people like create a future for yourself. Have some, if you have a job you don't like, do something on the side that like gets you interested, gives you passion, gives you juice, gives you a possibility of a brighter future, right?

34:49Maybe it's a form of expression. Maybe it's a problem you solve. Maybe it's just something to keep you interested and get off of Netflix, right? But go do something. The other thing you're real about though, and I think a lot of people look at you or someone like you that's been successful in your industry and think, man, they're loaded. But there's stops along the way where most people probably wouldn't know you, you can have financial struggles and still be crushing in your career at the same time too. Right. So talk a little bit about that. This will surprise people when they hear this. You definitely can, because this is, it's a business deal.

35:22So what I mean by that is in order for my brand to be the Kiki Palmer brand, I employ a lot of folks, you know, as much money is coming in is as much money is coming out. And so, yeah, when I was about 18, 19, my cash flow and my cash out ratio were wildly different because I had finished a show. I was no longer having a consistent check from that TV show. But all the expenses I had for my house and my team was all still the same because, you know, as an actor, you're used to not having a job. But after a while, you're kind of like, OK, a job should have come by now. And that's not what was happening for me.

36:00And it was really, really difficult. I had to downsize with my family. I had to rethink things. But I learned a very valuable lesson, which is, again, at that time, I wasn't really living above my means, but I learned to live really under my means. Because when you do have an independent contractor job, when you do have a freelance job like I do as an entertainer, you only have a job if somebody hires you. you know it's important to live under your mean what I mean by that is like if you got a hundred thousand dollars in the bank then your house should be like fifteen hundred dollars a month yes you know what I mean that's how under I mean because if something happens that you don't expect right it could be a health thing it could be a I'm just not getting booked it could be COVID remember COVID everybody was out of work you need to be prepared for that and I learned that lesson And that was the biggest thing for me was learning to live in extremely under my means so that I could prepare for any weird thing happening and still have enough cash saved that if my cash flow was impacted, I would not suffer.

37:04Because, yeah, I mean, you know, I think that when it comes to any industry, when you are your own boss to a certain degree, you know, I have different companies that I work with, but essentially I'm my own boss. Yep. You, you. Well, you have to live way below your means. I just want to jump in on this. That's a book by the way. Yeah. Cause you're so successful already and you think so clearly. I don't think, by the way, this is different. If you're living at the poverty line, I get all that. Even then you need to do it. But so I'm not talking about someone who's, you know, they're just trying to pay their apartment rent right now.

37:37No matter what they do, they can't scale it down any lower. I know there are people listening to the show, watching it that are in that place. I have also been in that place as a bus boy and a bagger at a grocery store. I get all that. Even then stop with Starbucks. You don't need to have Netflix, like learn to save 20 bucks a month. But the thing she just said, you guys about extremely below your means is so counterculture. Most people live above their means or barely below it. And the margin for error in your life financially is so thin. It's just a matter of time before you flame out. You lose your job.

38:14Something happens. Go ahead. I'm saying that's way too dangerous. is what you're saying 100 % true. And it's way too dangerous. And it leaves no room for you to really be in charge. You really then become a slave to the companies because you need the money. You have no freedom of choice because you don't have the financial support. And so, yeah, I do think people assume, because again, if you're not thinking from that point of view, you would not understand how somebody with, let's say a million dollars, how that could not really be enough money if they have their own business. You know why? Because if they have a place where people can come into the office, they're playing the bill on that.

38:52They're playing the bill on their home. If they have a kid, they're paying for their kids to have everything that they need. Then at that point, that million goes probably down to, I would say,$700 ,000. Then they have the taxes that they're going to be doing. That$700 ,000 immediately goes down to like$300 ,000,$400 ,000. And then from there, they've got to pay all the people that they're working with. So it's like that money goes faster than people assume. You know what I mean? I think when we hear these big numbers, we immediately assume that means that that person is profiting all of that.

39:22Or, you know, people go online and they look at all that net worth and they assume that that's what that person has sitting in that bank. That's not the case, at least not for me. You know what I'm saying? No, it's also true when people say, I exited my company for$80 million. Okay, how much debt did they have on it? How many other investors were there? And you hear these stories online, they exited for$100 million. I'm like, they got$4 million, okay? And that's the difference between reality and branding and publicity. You know, this is our thing. I didn't speak on it too much in this book, but like publicists, honey, they one of the best authors when it comes to narrative storytelling.

39:56They'll tell you your absolute tale and you'll believe so. I remember when they did the Essence cover for Raven and she always talks about how they said she's worth 400 million dollars. And she was like, the part they forgot to say was Disney was worth$400 billion with my brand, not me. And it's like, that's the thing where we see all these, you know, tabloids or headlines. And we assume that that's exactly what it is. This is one of the realest things ever talked about on my show is what we're talking about. I've never heard this covered on a podcast ever. Like the amount of people that you think have a lot of money because of what they make or what they exited for is so grossly incorrect.

40:35By the way, I'm about to do a podcast when we're done here. I'm shooting a solo episode. Check this stat out. There's very few people in the country that actually make a million dollars a year. You're talking about like half of 1 % ever make a million dollars a year, right? Guess what else is common with that group of people? Seven times or 10 times the amount of bankruptcies as the people that don't make a million dollars a year. So they end up going bankrupt more often than people that don't make a million bucks a year. So the reason all this matters, you guys, why are we both telling you this?

41:02You may not be as far behind as you think. there's some real realities with being an entrepreneur and if you will live extremely below your means go ahead i want you to finish that thought extremely below you're setting yourself up to succeed you're setting yourself up to succeed because even some of these companies that you think are rich they're trillions of dollars in debt so it's like don't let that be a marker for where you stop or you know what i mean like these again this is a part of the process It's falling, but it's getting back up again. It's always the recovery that makes everything the difference.

41:34It's not what happened. It's how you recovered from it. So good. You guys got to get the book, by the way. You got to get the book. And by the way, I'm going to give you the title of it again. And then I got like a couple more things I want to ask you about. This has been so good. So grateful we made this happen today. What sign are you? I'm a Taurus. Oh, okay. One of my perfect matches. Earth sign. I'm Virgo. There you go. I actually Taurus and Virgo are good matches. I actually been told that before. Master of me, you guys. the secret of controlling your narrative and the narrative controls everything.

42:01Okay. Part of the narrative though, I don't think people don't, you know, you get a little hate when you're not doing anything. You use the word backlash in the book. So once you try to kind of break out from where you are in your life, by the way, your industry is like, Oh my gosh, probably worse than anywhere with backlash. So like, what would you tell somebody who's like, all right, you know what? I'm going to start mastering my life. I'm going to step out and do something. What would you tell them about what's coming if they do from other people? Just people putting limitations on you. And the most time, I think we, the best part that you can do is not take it, take it personal.

42:33And I know that that is like a cliche thing. Don't take it personal because it feels personal, but you really do have to resist the urge because when you resist the urge and you're able to inform yourself on the real reason as to why they're responding that way. And then now that weight is pushed off of you that it's no longer being projected onto you because what they're actually projecting onto you are their limitations. What do I mean by that? Well, if I've told myself all my life that because I'm this and because I'm that, I'll never be anything and you become it. Well, now I have to be accountable to me.

43:04So now I have to tell you something that's going to stop you. That's going to thwart your success. That's going to make you question or second guess for the simple fact that I need to know that I didn't waste my life believing the lies that people told me. And so then at that point, it's kind of sad. And then you have compassion for them. You can wish them well and you can move on because that's usually what happens. I've realized that and I've gone through it many times in my life where my jumping into a new thing and me being a multi-hyphenate or me deciding to host and also be a, you know, an actor that is currently, that is a steady working, that apparently not being possible or not being okay.

43:43You know, all those different things I've experienced people telling me that for whatever reason, and they weren't going to work or they weren't going to be possible or this wasn't thing, that wasn't thing. But the other thing you have to remember too, is that nobody knows what your journey is and what you're headed to do. People don't have the idea for you that you have for yourself. And that's why your relationship with the companies and the people that you work with has to be very clear on what you're coming there to get. Are you coming there to get a check? Are you coming there to build a relationship?

44:10Are you coming there to build a relationship and get a check? Are you coming there to get in good with the company that they're working for? What is your angle? And so for me, my angle has always been to build a brand that I can establish enough to get access points that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise unless I went to some Ivy League college so that I could really be, you know, the boss of something. So I could really be able to extend my brand to help my community, to build greater narrative stories that could help uplift my community. It was always to be from an observer standpoint. I never wanted to just be Mickey Mouse.

44:46I always wanted to be Walt Disney. So when people would be talking to me about what I needed to do and what they were thinking that I was trying to be talent. So you're wrong. My dreams are so much bigger than what your dreams are for me. So that's the other thing is, you know, a people are projecting onto you their ideas and their limitations. B or two is people don't know what you see for yourself. So our trajectory, your timeline, your path is built by you. That's your personal blueprint based off of where you're trying to go, not where they think you should go. I mean, a lot of people there, their highest goal for me was to win an Oscar.

45:29I don't need to win an Oscar. It's great if I win an Oscar, but that's not that's not my that's the goal for somebody that maybe just wanted to be an actor and even just a really profound, profound, dramatic actor, I guess, because it doesn't mean what it means to you that it means to me. I would much more rather be somewhere in a position where I can give opportunities, the opportunity that I needed. You know what I mean? Being a real position, not be the player on a game, but be the coach, be the actual owner of the team. That was my thought process. Well, that's what you're doing. What do you think makes people happy?

46:05I'm just curious. You and I are both blessed that we know a lot of people that a lot of people think they would want to know. Right. and you know one of the things that kind of struck me a little bit as i you know started doing the show and getting to know people you know i don't know that people with a lot of money are any happier than people without what do you think one do you agree with that was it did it surprise you even as a little girl when you would meet some of these actors or whatever producers that kind of their attitudes their real happiness level a and then what makes them happy what makes people happy?

46:39I 100 % agree with you. You know what I mean? You would, I mean, money takes away some problems that maybe affect your happiness, but money does not make you happy. And I remember people always would say that too, about like dating and stuff like that. Get you a man that, trust me, the man that make a lot of money is a asshole just as much as the one that don't, you know, people are people. It's an individual thing. It's not about the money they have in their pocket or not. So I think a lot of things make people happy. One thing that I think makes people happy that we're missing a lot, especially in these times where, yeah, people want to make it and it's pushing a real, you know, when I say a capitalistic mind, I'm meaning like a super like independent mindset, you know, saying where you're just thinking about yourself.

47:20And again, this society, the level of poverty that people are living in, I understand and I get it. But what really makes people happy to me, one of the things is community, a real sense of community, having people that you sacrifice for, that sacrifice for you, people that you are, you know, that you have a, that you, that you love, that you care about, that y 'all are going through things together that have your back and you have their back. You know, it's like the Ubuntu philosophy. I am cause you are, and you are cause I am, you know, this sense of communal love. I think we, we need more of that.

47:55And it's, it's lost in this fight to the top. you end up on that mountain alone. And that's why your ass is unhappy. I think another thing is people's sense of value. People are happy when they feel value, but because we live in such a consumerist, you know, again, Western culture and everything is told that happiness is outside of us and value and attachment to that is outside of us. But that's not true. You don't necessarily want that outfit or want that new body or want this new thing because you really want it. You want it because you want to feel a value. And no one can really tell you, this is when it gets difficult, right?

48:34On what makes me happy is only you can figure out what makes you feel a value on a real, real level. You know what I'm saying? Like you want to feel a value in your beauty. Well, that might be dependent upon you and how you're loving yourself and giving to yourself. Not not just like what superficially, but truly, are you doing the things that you wanted you to do? You know, those are really big questions that I think a lot of people don't want to ask that end up making them just make the easy way the easy cut. OK, well, really, it's not because I got to do this inner work and I got to be accountable to me.

49:06It's really because I need that new hairdo. It's really because I need that new makeup. It's really they're just easily going towards something that's going to be a quick pacifier to the real deeper issue. So the sense of value, which comes from building self-worth and esteem and choosing yourself in every scenario, I think that's also what makes people happy. And I think, yeah, and accountability, which is, again, a lot of these are in connection to itself. But being accountable to oneself, that's always going to make your ass happy. Always. When do you let me ask you this last. By the way, I've enjoyed this so much.

49:40We went a little bit deeper than even I knew we were going to. You're outstanding. You're just. So are you. So are you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are you happy? And when have you been the happiest in your life? Like, truly, like right now, are you happy? And or is there another time you're like, I was most happy then? I do honestly believe that I'm the most happiest in my life right now. And the reason why I would say I'm the most happiest in my life right now is because so much terrible shit have happened. And what I mean by that is when hard shit happens in your life, it's almost like a situational accelerator.

50:20Like it pushes you, it puts you, you know, forward. You know, shout outs to Boots Riley. He gave me that. He gave me that word because that's I think it forces you to be real. Either you cannot be real or you can accept the task and be real and see and look at what you needed to look at and learn. I think for me, I went through a lot with after having my son and just, you know, being having so much things out in the public. Like now, if you would have told me any of that would have been happening or I would be sharing or talking and experiencing any of the things I was experiencing in the last few years.

50:55If you had told me that at 16, I would have been like, oh, my gosh, I kill myself. Like I would be mortified, horrified. But because I embrace the reality, you know, and I did not pull back. I said, what is what is God showing me? What is the universe trying to show me? What do I have to learn? How do I lean into this? How do I move through this? How do I accelerate through this situation and come out on the other side? You know, once I did that, I was happy. I think that brings me to another thing. It's like not lying to yourself. You cannot lie to yourself. I don't care if you lie to other people.

51:32You ain't got to tell them all your business, but don't lie to yourself. Do not lie to yourself. And I think this is a situation that, you know, again, turning 30, being 31, One, experiencing all these things, I think it would have been real easy to just lie to myself. Yeah. But I didn't lie to myself. And that was me being accountable to me. And that made me feel of value. You know what I'm saying? Then I had my community and they showed up for me. So I had my community. I had value based off of the way that I was showing up for myself. I was accountable to me. I wasn't lying to me. And I'm happy.

52:08Now, does that mean that I'm always smiling and that every day is a perfect day and I'm always in a good mood? That's not what happiness means. You know, it's still emotion at the end of the day. Really, what I feel is contentment and I feel security in my life and I feel gratitude in my life because of the thing I've gone through. I'm able to sit back and be thankful and be grateful and know that life is going to be filled with up and downs. but because I know who I am and I have my family, I'm always going to be okay on the outside of it all. Wow. You're exceptional. Like I could listen to you all day.

52:43There's a way that you speak that I really like listening to, but I really like what you say and, um, your level of wisdom. I mean, you're an old soul with like a young spirit. I mean, I just be a level of wisdom at your age. Like if you're not all watching this, you know who she is, but like you're talking about a young woman here to have this much wisdom you just lived a lot in 30 something years you've lived a lot and it's obvious i also just want to tell you just because i do this part of this for a living you need to be on stages speaking to oh my god it's such an honor thank you for saying thank you for all the words that you're saying because man i gotta take it this is the type of stuff i love to do you know i'm saying like when i'm acting or whatever i'm doing it's a version of me being Being able to bring us to these kinds of conversations.

53:28Like, this is what I live for. What else are we doing if we're not talking about this? You know, we got to talk about man. Yeah. Well, you're capable of it. What this today was, was a situational accelerator for a whole bunch of people who listen to it. I'm stealing that for sure, too. So Kiki Palmer is exceptional. I already knew that as an actress and and as a person who can sing and produce. But like this is totally different level stuff here. So thank you for today so much. No, thank you. I'm coming back in person, man. You got to make sure my seat is ready. We got to get it. I told you. I told you.

54:00Next time it's mandatory in person. All right, y 'all. Go follow her on social. Master of me. Go get it. The secret of controlling your narrative. It's so good. You can tell. By the way, we barely touched on the book. So there's a bunch to go read as well that we didn't cover here on the show. God bless you, everybody. Max out. This is the Ed Myron Show.