The New Rules of Branding in the Modern Era with Rory Vaden

26:52So that's on an impact, right? You go, well, only 30 people liked my social media, so it's a waste of time. I'm going to stop doing it. If there were 30 people in a room next door and you had a chance to stand up and speak in front of 30 people, your heart would start pumping. That's right. Because it's 30 people, but we forget that somehow behind the screen. So now let's talk about money. Okay. So since we've been talking money, I want to introduce a framework that we call fractal math. Okay. Okay. I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd on you for a little bit. Okay. But for the, for the analytics, you'll, you'll love this and I'll try to break it down.

27:28So fractal math is a concept that has kind of floated around like conceptually, but we, we formalized it and codified it when we noticed some consistent patterns in the monetization streams of the wealthiest personal brands. So here's the rule. Okay, here's what fractal math is. 10 % of your customers will invest at a level 10 times what they have already invested at. 10 % of your customers would invest at a level 10x what they've already invested at. So I'll walk you through it with a little bit of math, all right? So hang with me, math people. So let's say that you have 1 ,000 people who have bought a$30 product.

28:13okay that's thirty thousand dollars in revenue a thousand people each gave you thirty bucks so you go how do you double your revenue yeah there's two ways to double your revenue one way is to go get a thousand new customers but anyone who knows anything about business strategy will tell you the most expensive customer is a new customer so the most expensive way to double your revenue is to go get a thousand new customers. That's width. The other monetization strategy is depth, which is fractal math to go 10 % of your customers. So we had a thousand customers. A hundred of them. So 10 % would be a hundred.

28:56We'll invest at a level 10 times what they just invested at. So instead of giving you 30 bucks, they'll give you$300. Very good. So now we had 100 people give you$300, that's 30 ,000. You doubled your revenue with zero additional customer acquisition cost. It keeps going though. If 100 people give you 300, that means 10 people, which is 10 % of 100, would give you 3 ,000. That's another 30 ,000 in revenue. You tripled your revenue. And then that means if 10 people gave you 3 ,000, that there's one person who's already in your cell phone, who's already in your CRM, already in your database that would give you 30 ,000 in revenue.

29:42So you go, whoa, I could quadruple my business without adding a new, single new social media follower, a single new download, a single new customer, running a single new ad, hiring a single new salesperson. I'm not saying that's the only way to do it. I'm saying that's the overlooked way. That's the way that nobody does it except for people who are super rich. You're right, brother. You're right. By the way, you just, everybody, you were just given an MBA in business and marketing in the modern era and you didn't need to go to Harvard to get it. That is a hundred percent correct. And I could give everybody 10 different examples from 10 different businesses I've owned and been involved with where that is precisely the case.

30:21And you, I don't know how comfortable you are sharing this story, but we were talking before we hit record. Right. You had one person offer you an insane amount of money. That's a great point. For one-on-one coaching. That's right. I mean, I'm willing to say that. I won't say who it is, but so I do one-on-one coaching. By the way, you can go to edmylett.com. Actually, you can go to erica.edmylett.com, but it's very expensive, and it's six figures to be coached by me. But anyway, I just did have somebody in my audience who wants much more coaching with me, and it's at$10 million a year. And so that's that one of the one of the one of the one that you're referring to, the 10 % of the 10 % of the 10%.

31:01And in that case, it's somebody that can absolutely afford that, no problem, and I'm going to help them double their net worth so it'll be a drop in the bucket. But the point is that exactly what you just described has happened to me and all of my different businesses as long as I focused on depth. And you're completely right about it.

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32:12So, wanna drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. you know one thing i was just thinking when you were talking i want everyone to hang on and listen to me that has kids or that is young or if you're listening to this and you know somebody young that you should be sending this podcast to when i started to do well on social media i wanted to protect my children from attention they didn't want to get when they were young i also have started to strongly build up opinions about what age i even think someone should even be on social media. And I think that's a difference in every family, but I certainly don't think it's preteen for sure.

32:51However, I wish now sooner, believe it or not, so much I believe in personal branding in this day and age, I wish sooner I would have encouraged my children to begin to focus a little bit on that as they were in call. This is something that's probably never been discussed on any podcast, literally anywhere ever. So I want to talk about this with you. And I want you to listen to it if you have children or you've got a niece or a nephew or a friend or an older cousin or something like that. I don't know what the age is. Maybe it would have been 16, 17. I'm not sure. Maybe it was younger for a mature kid who could handle it.

33:26But like my son, Max, now is playing professional golf, but he's built a little bit of a brand and he's now generating, you know, thousands of dollars a month in brand deals as he's playing golf. It's sort of helping fund his golf career. Max Milet, everybody. But had he focused on building that brand two and three years sooner, I'm convinced that revenue could have been triple or quadruple what it is now. So what are your thoughts on that? I bet you've never been asked this before. At certain age, someone's starting to build the brand equity because it's going to take years to build a brand more than likely.

33:59Could they start being educational or entertaining as you described? What's the third one again? Encouraging. Or encouraging. And is there an age where like, why are we all waiting around until we've got a full-blown career to start building the brand? Why aren't more people that are of college or maybe even high school age that are younger beginning to build at least the foundation of a brand, beginning to create content? I think probably that's a huge miss. Like you have kids that are, I'm just thinking this out loud. We spend six figures on a kid to go to college, whether they do or don't go to school, right?

34:31And most of them come out of here with a degree and some information and no brand. Yet when you get on, once you're into business, we all go, I need a brand. Right. So I wonder if we're almost putting one of the most important things completely last or on the back burner for young people as well. Like sooner the better, probably when they're mature enough to handle it, right? Yeah. Well, so here's what, here's, no one has ever asked me this question. Here's where I would delineate when anyone should start posting specifically on social and creating a brand this way. and it's when they have the ability and the desire to serve.

35:10Sure. Where people get in trouble on social is when they go on there to extract self-worth and to when they're just, I think one of the dangers of social media is when it's just inherently social. So do I. Now you've got like social pressure and social comparison and that's where it's like you have to be super mature to handle that. from a business strategy, you should start doing it when you have something to say that adds value to the lives of others. And this is the whole secret of personal branding in general. Everyone thinks personal branding is about vanity, but it's about service. It's not about vanity.

35:49Building your personal brand is not self-centered. It's service centered. It's not what can I get from this? It's what, what can I give? How can I add value to it, to, to the community and, And the tools of the day give us more ability than ever before to deposit value into other people's lives. And so I'd say as soon as someone is mature enough and has the desire to add value to other people's lives, so they have to have the desire to do that, and they have to have the ability to do that. Max clearly has the ability to add value to people's lives. He has a depth of expertise even at his age. and this is what's powerful about expertise is like anyone can develop expertise if they go deep this is another place where people go wide we talk more about this on the first our first episode together is they try to talk about a million different things and they're just they're saying a little about a lot instead of saying a lot about a little but but max can go deep he can like he knows that space he's an expert right i'm thinking about let me tell you what i'm thinking about.

36:55I'm thinking about like a lot of you that have children or that, or again, you just know a young person. My son's passion from a pretty young age became golf. He became someone who knew a lot about that topic and had a passion for it young. I think sooner he should have started posting about the correct thing on a golf swing or the club he just discovered or this. What if you have a niece or a nephew or a child who loves horses and you almost know inevitably they're going to get into the horse business someday, training and riding horses, or they want to be a veterinarian. You know, they love caring for animals.

37:27They're going to school right now to be a veterinarian. And almost everybody's always known they were going to do that. Or you've got a daughter who's now passionate about business and marketing. And so why is she waiting to get her degree when we know she's going to go build a brand anyway? Maybe she should be sharing a little bit of what she's learning for all the kids that aren't in college online or a particular project she's doing or being encouraging for people. Maybe you come from a particular group of people who not everybody sees in that space. So many young people now discover passions early in their life, and yet they're doing what everybody else is doing.

38:02They're posting the drink from the fraternity party. And I'm thinking, yeah, that's great, but you already know when you get out you want to do this or you're studying for it. Start building that encouragement, education, or entertaining stuff sooner. Now, I think the reason they don't do it, and I'm being serious here, is they don't know how to do it. And that's where someone like you truly, by the way, I'm trying to stuff something in there. You said the website earlier quickly. Freebrandcall.com forward slash Ed Mylet. Okay. Okay. Ed Mylet, not Ed. Ed Mylet. Ed Mylet. Okay. So the reason I'm only want that in there is because you did say it quickly earlier.

38:37If it's not for everybody, don't go do it. But if it is for you, go get the free call. Who cares? But I just, I didn't know we were going to go there today, but the more I'm thinking about it, there's so many kids leaving college with college debt right now. There's so many kids right now that have college degrees that are working at Starbucks that are just trying to make a living, that are moving back home with mom and dad. There's a part of me that's like, you know what? If they had a brand, who knows what they could have done with it? Who knows what could have happened? Maybe they'd have found a job with that brand.

39:07In a lot of businesses, if I'm interviewing two people and their brand is a good brand, but they haven't posted a bunch of stupid things that disqualify them, which is what a lot of people do when I interview them. I'm like, I've seen your social media. I can't hire you. But having said that, two clearly equivalent candidates, similar backgrounds, similar capabilities. One has an online brand and presence that may bring our firm revenue or credibility, and one doesn't. Who am I hiring? Of course. I'm hiring the one with the brand. So I don't know. I mean, you could just go spend$50 ,000 on getting your kid a college education sure you could spend a few bucks on getting to learn how to build a brand.

39:41Yeah. And when you, when you talk about building a brand, to me, a brand is, um, you know, like if you look at it on a, on a, on a balance sheet in a business, right, it's usually intangible. It's, it's goodwill. It's, it's hard to put an economic value on what a brand is like, what is your reputation worth? But it's definitely worth something for all of these reasons you talk about, but an audience is an asset. Like an audience is an actual asset. Many businesses buy and sell just for the customer list. Like a group of people with contact information who are all organized around some interest or buying a thing is an asset.

40:21When you build an audience online, you're building an actual asset, an asset that can produce income and revenue for you and your family and for, you know charitable causes for a lifetime yes for generations right so well what i think rory is since we're going back and forth in this is i don't know what it's worth to have one but i know there's a huge cost for not having anything heck yeah in most careers if you have nothing you've done no work on that you're almost working in an old economy you are almost working in an economy that doesn't exist anymore there are some careers where you don't need a following at all or any type of a brand.

41:00There are probably some, but they're pretty few and far between. Well, and we have the data on this. So coming back to that research study, do it. So first of all, 74 % of Americans say they are more likely to trust someone who has an established personal brand. When we broke it down and we said like, which of the following, is it important to you that this person has a personal brand? It's, we asked like coaches, you know, consultants, speakers, authors, you would expect those people to have personal brands. The number one profession on the list. 61 % of Americans say they want their doctor to have an established personal brand.

41:36They want lawyer is very high on the list. Financial advisor is very high on the list. And at first that was surprising because we're like, why do we, why would we care about their personal brand? And then you go, Oh, it's simple. The higher the requirement for trust, the more important having an established personal brand becomes. The data in that study says people are more likely to buy from you. They're more likely to recommend you. They're more likely to work for you. And they're more likely to spend more money with you if you have an established personal brand. So it's not just your opinion, Ed.

42:09It's not just your intuition, which clearly you've been spot on with building your own brand over the years. The data is point blank, black and white on this. We want to buy from people that we trust and we have to know something about you. Yeah, and don't you think, by the way, unbelievable statistics right there and validation of that. But when we say brand, it doesn't mean that when they go see you, you've got 350 ,000 followers. It means that you've actually produced social proof that you're good at what you do, whether or not there's a big following for it or not. If you're my doctor, I'm going to go look.

42:42And when I look, if you've got content that educated, entertained, or encouraged me, no matter how many people liked or followed it, it's social proof. It's business proof that you exist and that you're good at what you do, correct? It doesn't even have to, the following itself is an ancillary benefit, but not a necessity for credibility. Absolutely. It is totally ancillary. We actually, the data in the study is on there. By the way, we've been talking about the study. Yeah. If you want me just to give it out for free. Okay. So we invested over$100 ,000 on this study. Thank you. So if you go to freebrandstudy.com forward slash Ed Milet.

43:16So freebrandstudy.com forward slash Ed Milet. You can download the research study. I mean, literally we spent a hundred grand on this. And that there's data on this specifically that says it's not the quantity of followers that makes people trust you. It's the quality of the content. And so it's like, I don't care how many followers my dentist has. Like, I don't care. I'm not hiring my dentist because he's a celebrity. I care when I go like, do people say he's awesome? Does the work look good? Like, does the office look clean and nice? Like, is he sharp? Is he, you know, it's just that. You're 100 % right.

43:51It's like I bought many houses that I found online. Probably some of you have bought your home you're in, you found it online. I didn't check to see how many followers the realtor had, but I actually was familiar with the home before I even looked at it. And if I had not seen the home, I probably wouldn't have gone to look at it. Well, if they can't see your office, if they can't see your dental chair, if they can't see that you have an assistant, if they can't see that you actually operate a business, how is it they're going to come close to you and do business with you? So you're totally right about that.

44:18This episode is brought to you by Indeed. When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again. You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed's sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast. And even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Now, let's get off of digital for a second. By the way, everyone, hope you really appreciate it. I know Rory very well. Rory's calling in life is just to serve people.

44:58He's a servant leader. In fact, I get frustrated with him because I think the way he prices most of his business things is so far below what they're worth. But him and AJ are servant leaders. His face is even changing when I say that. This man works so hard to help other people in his life. It's just something that I really admire about you. And, you know, I have, you know, I put out thousands of hours of content that most people charge a lot of money for because, I mean, I do charge for other things, but for the most part, I don't because I just want to serve and I have a business second. I really do.

45:30And in your case, you truly want to serve and then you have a business second and it's very rare. And I just want to acknowledge that about you. I love that about you and your wife. You're both that way. Well, thank you for that, Ed. and we've talked a lot about money in this interview and I think it's a lot of people want to make more money. That's the world I came from. But a concept that I've been wrestling with a lot in the last couple of years, which has really blown my mind and I've wrestled with whether or not this is true and I've really come to deeply believe this, that peace is the new profit.

46:12Peace is the new prophet. See, when I was young, I thought that success and the approval of others would give me what I wanted. Then I thought having more money would give me what I wanted. Then I thought it was like having a lot of followers would give me what I wanted. The only thing that actually gives me any sort of deep satisfaction is service. So it is a selfless thing, but it is also a self-centered thing to go, money, there's only a certain amount of money that you need before it doesn't really motivate you that more. but service is where it's at. And you used an analogy one time on a different episode, wasn't it with me?

47:12But you were talking about eating a steak and you said you can be enjoying every bite of a steak. Do you remember when you said this? You said you can be savoring each bite of a steak and yet still want more. That's right. And that's what I really believe service is. Service is the only thing that deeply satisfies me immediately, even if I'm only serving one person. And yet I also have an insatiable desire to serve more people. And that's available to all of us immediately. Like you don't have to have lots of followers. You don't have to have lots of money in your bank account. You can serve a person.

47:52And I think so many people are trying to find happiness. And the reason they're not finding happiness is because they're looking for happiness. Happiness is a self-centered pursuit. If you look for opportunities to be of service, happiness shows up as a byproduct, right? And that's where I go. And this is one of the reasons that I love you and admire you is I go, you, there's only a couple friends that I have where I'm like, you don't need anything else. Like you've got all the money. You have all the influence. You have all the relationships. You've got the followers, the, the, the, the fame you've got every, every, uh, possible possession and plenty of money to buy more if you need it.

48:44And yet you work, you work hard, you work long and And you work like you don't have any of it. And it's not because you don't have it. It's because I know that deep down in your heart, you have an insatiable desire to serve. And that's why you're still on fire. And this is my issue with you, is that you work too hard to your own detriment, just like we should probably raise our prices. I think you should work a little less. I appreciate you saying that. I have to tell you, some of this was Rob Dyrdek, who's, by the way, another person's been on more than one time because he's so incredible. But Robbie and I were talking about this and we were talking about the six human needs and significance being one of them.

49:27And at one time we were both like, I don't need any more recognition and significance. I've grown through that. And we were at a football game together and he goes, bro, I just thought about something. And he leans over and he goes, I actually do love feeling significant, but I get my significance through contributing to other people. I feel good about myself. So in some ways, service, working hard, to some extent is still a selfish pursuit in the sense that I feel the best about me. And when I'm pursuing happiness, it's about me. I'm self-centered, which is sort of an ego thing. And when we're all about our own happiness, it's very difficult to acquire it because real happiness comes from serving other people.

50:04And so I've never heard it said as beautifully as you just said it. The truth of the matter is I love work and serving and doing what we're like right now. You and I could be anywhere in the world. We're in this studio today on a beautiful day inside the doors are closed two men just talking to one another hoping to contribute to other people's lives yet i feel far better about myself doing this than i would if i was just sitting out there on the beach today like i would rather be doing this and i know you would be right i feel the most alive and for most of you if you're just not quite you feel a little bit helpless you know get more helpful and when you get helpful in your life you'll feel a whole lot helpless this conversation by the way is already an hour and it doesn't feel like it to me whatsoever i feel like we've been talking for about 30 minutes.

50:46So I want to ask you an entrepreneur question, I guess, last. You're in the throes of raising a family. You've got a tremendous wife in AJ. You work very hard at your business. And I asked another person this today, actually, it was Jasmine. And I'm going to begin to ask this question more. And I really want the real answer. Okay. I think if people knew how hard it is to build a business, they may never start it. There's a great clip of the guy that founded a very big tech company. And someone asked him, He's a billionaire now, but they asked him, what advice would you give yourself if you knew what you knew now, everything you know about building the business?

51:18And he says, I would have never gotten started. If I knew how hard it was, I would have never gotten started. And so I think social media makes entrepreneurship look very glamorous, very easy. Anybody can do it. You just need a phone and a thought, and you're going to be an entrepreneur. And most of those are fakes. There's fakes. That's the hard thing for consumption is who's real, who's not real. It's a grind. It's difficult. It does cost things. It's hard. It costs time. It costs energy. It costs, you know, emotional burden of carrying a business in a company is not easy. You and I were talking today about different personnel changes required in your business, et cetera.

51:53Is all of that what you thought it would be? Is it different than you thought? And if it is different, is it still worth it? Building a business? Yeah. I mean, the real. Or was it easier being like a number one or a number two somewhere else, do you think? Well, I'll say this because, you know, we built an eight figure business and should have never had to work again and then started over. It wasn't any easier the second time we knew what to do. Like we were more confident about what to do, but it wasn't any easier. Like building brand builders group from zero to eight figures, which, you know, I don't think we left, we left that part out of the story, but we went from zero to eight figures in five years, like went from zero all the way back.

52:35and it wasn't easier. I think it's important to ask this question about what makes entrepreneurship worth it. And it's right on the pulse of what we were just talking about. I don't think money makes it worth it. I've been around enough people who are dying, who suddenly found out they were going to die, who then looked back and said, I would give the money back. I wish I had more time with whoever or more time doing whatever. I think what makes it worth it is the deep desire to serve. What makes it worth it is to go, I mean, I became a New York Times bestselling author when I was 29 years old.

53:27I don't even look at my book sales every week. I look at all of our clients' book sales. And it's like, man, when this book sold 117 ,000 copies, like we'd never pre-sold before it even came out. Thank you for doing that for me. It had little to do with me. But it was like to be a part of that was so invigorating. There's a speaking event called the Global Leadership Summit. We've been trying to get you to speak there. They should have you. It's one of the biggest leadership events in the world. We had four brand builders group clients speak on that stage. Like arguably one of the most illustrious stages in the world.

54:06Four of our clients were on that stage. That's incredible. I mean, I was giddy. I was just like, this is amazing. We've had 10 clients hit New York times this year. We've had 13 clients grow their annual revenue more than a million dollars a year. Now to some people, that's not a lot. That's not a lot to you. But, but some of these people, I go, this is life changing. There's this guy named Ian Konyak, who we actually met in our sales training days. And he knew us from there. And then he became a client and we were, he was like, man, I think I want to like post some videos on sales. And I just said, dude, make a video every day.

54:42Just make a video every day. Just make one tip. He did it for two years on LinkedIn. Cause he was like, I can't figure out the other stuff. I don't know how to do a blog and YouTube just did a video. He made a multi-million dollars, like his fourth year, multi-million, life-changing. And I go, nothing fills me up more than seeing that. But that's part of what gives me peace. But I also can't sacrifice my family. I mean, when I say that peace is the new profit, it means money is part of peace. A family that you're proud of is part of peace. Looking yourself in the mirror and being proud of yourself is a part of peace.

55:21And also your purpose in the world is part of peace. And, you know, we talked about this last time we were together. We believe that you're most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. It's the story of your dad and now the story of you and the story of so many. And that's a part of peace. And so I go, if being an entrepreneur only takes away your peace, if it gives you everything else, but it doesn't give you some deep sense of peace, I don't think it's worth it. but if being an entrepreneur gives you enough money to do what you want to do and need to do for your family it it creates the kind of environment that your family grows up in that you're proud of it shapes you into becoming a person that you look in the mirror and you're proud of and it adds it creates a context for you to create contribution in the world that gives you peace, then it's all worth it at any size.

56:26What a great answer. I totally agree with you on all fronts there. You know, I have a perspective on it, and then we'll put a bow on this. First off, I think entrepreneurs change the world. Amen. I think they change the world. I think they change them in big ways, like you look at a Musk or a Steve Jobs, but I also think that realtor in Houston, Texas is changing her part of the world. Heck yeah. One family at a time, one safe home at a time. And so in big ways and small ways, entrepreneurs make a difference in the world. I don't think political figures change the world. I think that's a false thing that people sort of buy into.

56:58Whatever party you're in, that's great. That's awesome. I think political figures can hurt the world. For sure. If they can just get out of our way, let the entrepreneurs take over, and entrepreneurs can really make change. They innovate. They create. They save lives. They change lives. They push the universe and humanity forward. Amen. But I also think for those of you that are considering entrepreneurship or are an entrepreneur, at least in my case, it's become my form of expression. It's how I express my being. It's one of the ways. It's one of the primary ways. My speaking on stage is certainly my art form and my form of expression.

57:34But that's tied to the businesses we build. It's tied to this podcast. This is a form of expression for you today. The businesses that you do every day, if it's a form of expression for you. See, I can't play the guitar. I don't play the piano. I can't sing. I don't paint well. My art is entrepreneurship. And for a lot of times, and a lot of you that are listening to this, in your own way, it may not feel like it every day, but this is the music of your life. This is your art. This is your form of expression. And although the world may not have seen all of it yet and may not, some of the greatest artists in the world only have two paintings.

58:06Some of the great singers in the world only had one great hit. And so the scope of it and magnitude of it is overblown in the world. But if you've helped, like Rory said, one family, one person, and you've gone deep in that, it may be worth it for you. And if you hadn't looked at it that way, maybe that's how your business could begin to give you peace. Because when he asked you if you got peace from it, maybe it's just chaos all the time because being an entrepreneur is chaos. But if you step back on a Sunday sometimes and just think about the work you do and the form of expression it is and the lives you're changing and making a difference, maybe that'll give you some sense of peace that you don't have.

58:41Give them the website again, Rory, because you're going to do a free call, which blows my mind. If you're going to give something away for free, I'll promote the heck out of it on the show. Thank you. Yeah. So go to freebrandcall.com forward slash Ed Milet. If any of this resonates with you in a way that you go, I should bring more attention to what I'm doing. I feel a little bit like the world's best kept secret, or I just have a calling on my life to play bigger, to serve more people, to impact more people. And building a personal brand doesn't mean you have to become a speaker or write a book or, you know, do dances on TikTok.

59:11It means that you're going to digitize your reputation and we're going to scale what you have. You're going to help encourage people. You're going to entertain them. You're going to educate them. And what that's going to do is it's going to drive warm leads to your doorstep for the thing you're already doing. The fastest path to cash is to monetize the thing you're already doing. Just use your personal brand as a lead generation tool to drive to the thing you're already doing. But even if it doesn't make you a dollar, it's still a way you can make a difference. So do it and let's talk. Let's be a part of your journey.

59:49What a great convo today, dude. Thank you for being here. This was awesome. All right, everybody. All I ask is you just share the work we're doing here. Share the episode. God bless you, everybody. Max out.

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