The Untold Story of Auntie Anne

31:44Is remarkable. And certainly something happened to you through these times where a strength was forged into you that I certainly don't have that nobody else I know has. And so one of the centerpieces of Anne's work, I just, you know, everybody just wants you to imagine this. You've lost your child in this incredibly difficult way. And then you transition into this abusive relationship with the person that in all of our lives, clergy and especially in Anne's life, that's a big deal. The abuse, the trauma, the shame that comes with it, the hiding it. This isn't for seven days or seven weeks. This is years and years of this, that she's carrying this burden.

32:22And one big part of man's work is the concept of confession, which we'll get into maybe as we after you tell this part of the story. So what do you know what happened that that day you went, OK, I'm going to confess this to my husband now? Like, do you was there something that day or was just like that was supposed to be the day? No, I do know. So in about by the end of that period of time in my life, the church began to fall apart. Now we're, we moved from Pennsylvania to Texas and the church began to fall apart because now there are rumors of the pastor and he, he, some, some other women were coming out and I'm like, wow.

33:04So I had no idea at that time that he was also involved with my very dear sisters and they have told their story in my book so I can tell the story. but found out that the abuse was widespread in the church. And many years later, we found out our oldest daughter was also abused by him when she was just a little girl. Oh, my gosh. During the same time. I know. So the next question is people always ask me, so is this man still alive? And did you charge him? Well, we tried, but we never were successful. And yes, he's still alive. But so the part about all of this, the confession part, I just have to, you know, I want to say that if you find yourself in this place, I don't feel like my story is the worst story in the world.

33:48Because I know, you know, our stories are not meant to be compared. Our stories are meant to be shared. We read the Bible because we love the stories in the Bible. We love the story about Adam and Eve. And wow, they disobeyed God. And God came looking for them. and he redeemed them. We love the story of Jacob and we love the story of Joseph and David. The Bible is full of stories like mine and like yours. And so it shouldn't be weird or strange or unusual for us to be willing to share our stories when God has miraculously and redeemed us and taken us from darkness to light. And so during the dark years, I weighed 90 pounds.

34:36I was falling apart on the inside. You know, the tragedy is not in dying, but it's what ties inside of you while you live. And that is true. It's so hard to live when you're in darkness and you're trying to hide. It's very difficult. You get up every morning. And I prayed every day and asked God to deliver me. I truly believe what the psalmist David said, that he would deliver us. And I was looking for some kind of deliverance. But what I know today is as long as we blame, it's always somebody else's fault. You never look inside. I never understood that. Now, I became responsible for the choice I made that day.

35:22And for the many choices I made thereafter, yes, I was stuck, but I understand that differently now. And so praying was what kept me in tune with God, even though I'm mad at Him. I don't know why I'm still here. Why do you not deliver me? That was a part of it. But the falling apart, the loneliness and the shame just kept me locked in that space because I knew if my husband ever found out, I knew he would divorce me. There was no doubt in my mind because I'm so bad. Why would he want to live with me? Why would he not do it? So I believed a lie. I believed many lies during that time. And so that's why I never told Jonas, because I knew.

36:16So all those tears on my knees. And so the church is falling apart now. And I knew that somehow Jonas was going to find out about the women in the church. And Holy Spirit compelled me to get up off my knees and go tell Jonas. And Ed, I can tell you that was not in my plan. I thought God would deliver me. I don't know. He did, but that day, now I know, I took responsibility. I began to take responsibility for my choices, for my secret. And I got up off my knees and I went and told Jonas. And Jonas has and is always, he's been a good man, but I never knew how good he was.

37:12until that day. And so when I told him, I'm ashamed, I'm full of, I'm a shell. I'm a shell. I have nothing to give except one little confession. It was very short and maybe two sentences long. I remember exactly what I said. But when I said it, I was looking at him. and the look in his eyes which i had never seen i it made me turn around and walk away i never touched him i never hugged him i never gave him a chance to respond because i knew what he was going to say so i walked away i go home and i flop on my bed and that was the first time i realized not only did I hurt myself, I know strange as this may sound, but I didn't realize the impact.

38:04But that day I realized, oh my gosh, I hurt my husband who has been more than faithful, more than kind, more than loving to me. And I just wept like a baby on my bed. And in that moment, God spoke to me and he said, And he who is forgiven much loves much. Like, wow, I didn't understand. I knew what that meant, but I didn't understand the implication or what the hell that was going to play out in my life. So I'm waiting all day long for Jonas to come home. And he comes home and we were in Troop, Texas at that time. and we're in a very small house and he comes in the kitchen and he said, hon, we need to talk.

38:52And I said, about what? I mean, everything there was to say, you know what I'm saying? That's all I had to say. That's all I could say. But that's all Holy Spirit needed for me to say. I, that day, I broke the shackle, the shackles with one, one very short confession. It simply meant that I was going from the darkness. I'm breaking the darkness and I'm beginning to open the door of light because that's where God lives. He is truth. He is light. And when you walk toward light, he will meet you there. He will always be there to do what he can do. So in that day, so Jonas said to me, we need to talk.

39:40And he said, well, you know, about what you said today. And I said, well, I really don't want to talk about it. I mean, are you going to put it on this six o 'clock news tonight and tell everybody what I did? I mean, this is shame speaking, right? Sure. He said, no, I don't want to do that. And I don't want you to leave me. I know that you're not happy, but I thought it was because of Angie's death. all these years but can you make me one promise and i said i i don't know by now i'm crying i'm like i don't know i don't think i can keep any promises and he said well just promise me that you won't leave in the middle of the night and leave a note on the dresser said promise me that you'll if you want to go because i want you to be happy and if you want to go then please tell me and then we'll work on this together.

40:34He said, I'll help you pack your bags if you want to go. I'll help you find a house. And again, he said, I don't want you to go, but if you decide, please tell me and I will help you. We'll do this together. But if you decide to go, then you have to take the girls with you because they need their mother. Well, okay. That was the moment when there was a spark inside of me, just flicker of hope. And that was the moment when I will tell you that's when redemption for me began. What a good man. One step further back, and that is when I decided to make a confession. The principle is found in James 5, 16.

41:20It's throughout the Bible, but this one short verse. if you will confess your faults, your sins, your struggles, one to another, like I'm doing right now, and pray for each other, then you'll be healed. And my healing began the day I made my one very faulty, broken confession to my husband. That was the beginning. Man, unbelievable. Just un-un-un-believable. Well, so far, everybody, I told you that this would be a story you would never forget. I'm pretty sure we've checked that box. And first off, just all these thoughts race through my mind, but I'm going to let everybody in. I don't normally do it.

42:02I just want everybody in the audience to be alone with theirs, just alone with theirs, prayerful about it, and just be alone with your own thoughts. But my thought towards the end there is what a good man he is and how God's redemption is pretty darn incredible because of where we're going to go now, where we're going now. So, you know, the marriage has stayed together and is a loving, beautiful relationship. The family is strong. At some point, and I don't understand how it happens, but it blows my mind. There's like, this is unreal as we kind of shift to some business stuff because it's all correlated at all this.

42:41There's like, as I understand it, and there's like a local pretzel place for sale. Is this right? Correct. Yes. There's a local pretzel place. Here's what's incredible about Anne. There's 2000 locations now of Auntie Anne's pretzels. It's one of the most impressive, successful franchises in the world. And it's the least compelling part of her story yet on its own because of even the age she is when she starts. So start the context for us. How old are you when this starts? You have no business background whatsoever, no entrepreneurial background whatsoever. And you've grown up in a culture that is the good girl culture, raise your family, be a good wife, be a good mother.

43:21This is overall, most people would not say, OK, we're looking at a global business tycoon with locations on all over the world in a business someday. Right. At this point in your life, God knew something great was going to happen, but I don't even think you did. So how old are you when this starts and how does it start? Well, I was 40 years old when we started Auntie Anne's. 48 or 40? 40. 40 years old when we started. 40 years old. Okay, 40 years old. Okay. Yes. And, you know, I have to go back just one little minute on this story. When I was able to make my confession to him, he got on his knees, of course, wept before the Lord, called a counselor.

44:02And the counselor told him, if you will, if you're able to love your wife as Jesus loves you, then maybe there's hope for your marriage. And Jonas began his journey. And he will tell you if he was on your podcast, he would tell you that story. Just ask, you know, Holy Spirit, how or as counselor, how do I do this? And his Holy Spirit will teach you how to love your wife as Jesus loves you. and he will tell you today that he's still on that journey. How is it that Jesus loves me? How can he love us in this way? And he said, I began my feeble attempts at loving my wife and my daughters in that way.

44:46And, you know, Ed, he never told me that story for a couple of years. But for a few months, it was maybe a year later, my sister called me one day and said, how are you doing? And I said, we're doing pretty good. I mean, you know, even that confession, even though I told you the grandness of it, but the truth of the matter is that there's a lot of hard work from that point to the time we opened up our store. But that day when my sister called me, I said, I don't know what it is about Jonas, but there's something about his spirit that's attracting me to him and I want to be with him. And that in itself was miraculous.

45:23Well, he began the journey then of trying to understand what happened to us. How could this happen and what happened? And he began to study psychology. And again, he's a little Amish boy. We have no formal education, but we both took the pain and we decided that we really want to help other people. And Jonas at one point said, you know, I had this vision. I see us. We don't have a business or anything. But he said, I see a building. It's really big. And I want it to be a counseling center of some sort for the Amish, the Mennonite people to come to. And I remember telling him at that time, well, how in the world do you think that's going to happen?

45:57We don't have anything. We had no money. He said, well, I don't know how we're going to do that. But I know if God wants us to, then he'll make a way. And I said, well, if he wants to do that for us, then he will have to do something very big. A few months later, we started our little store in Downingtown, Pennsylvania, our little market store, because he was doing marriage counseling as a free service to everyone that came to him full time and making no money. And that's when I became the breadwinner. And I said, okay, I wanted to honor him. I wanted to, I mean, he saved my life. There was nothing too big.

46:36And with joy, I said, well, I'll just go to work. And we found this little market stand that had soft pretzels. And that's why we started Auntie Anne's. And the three things we did not have, which you heard me say this was we didn't have a formal education. We had no capital. We had no money. When I say no money, literally, and we had no business plan. And so that's why I will declare to anyone that will listen that Auntie Anne's is a modern day business miracle. It should never have happened. That's what a miracle is. That is a miracle. And, but something happened. So you got this local pretzel stand.

47:12I think you like, Did you not look at it and was like, you thought it was worth 20 or 30 grand, you paid like six grand for it or something like that? Is that right? That's correct. Back in the day, farmers markets, if you're familiar with Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, there's lots of markets. And very often they buy a stall or rent a stall, whatever. But in this case, there was a stall that was for sale. And very often they were sold anywhere from$10 ,000 to even$125 ,000,$50 ,000. dollars and so it wasn't even in our we weren't impossible but somebody told us about this story and we called and uh they said they wanted six thousand dollars for it even though we had no money uh while we were on the phone with this couple they were an amish couple and uh we just i just looked at my husband we were i was talking to them on the phone and and he was kind of like sure you know six thousand dollars and i knew that his dad had plenty of money and uh so i told the couple, yes, we want the store.

48:10We had no money, but we knew we could go see his dad. So we went to see his dad that evening and he gave us a check of$6 ,000. And then we went and gave the people, the sellers, we went and gave them our$6 ,000. And then we went to see what we bought. Now that tells you the real estate. You had not even seen it? No. No, we had not. Auntie Anne started with a$6 ,000 loan from your father-in-law on a location you had never seen before at 40 years old with no business experience because your husband was doing free marriage counseling because he had gone through a rough time in his own marriage and wanted to help other couples with their marriages and this is crazy when and how long this is crazy so you walk in there I'm just curious like did you know how to do anything in the business and like did you did you understand could you did you understand how the pretzels were made how other products were made like all that stuff or so yes and no but uh seven months before we bought this store i was actually working for a man at another farmer's market as a way to make some money for jonas to do counseling and i was picking 200 a week and let me tell you i thought i had arrived we were actually making jonas which paid the bills you know groceries gas our home whatever so it was enough for us to have just to get by and so i did that for seven months and this was a stand as well in a market that was selling soft pretzels.

49:34And that's where I learned about soft pretzels. I never made a pretzel in my life until that particular experience. From that, I went immediately to buying this other store and they had soft pretzels there. And that's Auntie Anne's. That's why we did soft pretzels. It wasn't even a choice that I made. It was just - It's unreal. Everybody, I just want you to step back for your own life. Obviously, there's been unbelievable tragedy, shame, all the things I told you in the very beginning, all the way up to this point where there's some lessons here, either in entrepreneurs or those of you that someday may dream of being one.

50:06The first one is it's okay to go to work for somebody and just work hard and learn about something that you could then apply into a business at some point as like a training ground. And Ann's nodding and she's a more successful entrepreneur than I am. So I don't want to, I want her to comment on that. But do you agree with that? Like sometimes, you know, God will place you somewhere and this is, you can be working for someone thinking even, I know you weren't, But you could be thinking, what's a business I could start from what I'm learning here? Could I do this better than them? Could I could I create something that's an offshoot of it?

50:34Right. I mean, that's something people could be thinking about. I think we put ourselves in a very, very small box, you know, but my life on the farm, Ed, made my box actually pretty big. When it comes to business principles, you know, I learned perseverance. I learned how to mom and dad always said, you know, they gave us a task. This is ingrained in me and all of us in our family. they give you a task to do. You do the task and you complete the task. And you do all of that without grumbling and complaining. You do the work that is set before you, right, that you were asked to do. So when I went to work at a farmer's market, I was there one day.

51:16And the manager, I'm a little farm girl. I mean, really, I'm still that hard. And you just, I'm a doer. You do what's in front of you instead of waiting for, I don't know, for your moment, for your breakthrough or for something big that you wish and you're dreaming for. No, you do the menial tasks that are right in front of you. And as you do that, you learn. So at this farmer's market, the manager or the boss of that market, I worked for him one day and he came to my house two days later and he said, I want you to manage. Would you be interested in managing my store? and I'm like no because I'm not a manager I don't know anything about business he said oh he said you you're amazing only a first man in my whole life that ever complimented me like made me believe he said I've seen I see this in you you can manage you you have what it takes I know that you can manage my store and I'm like by the end time he was done talking to me I'm in tears like how can you i'm still dealing with some of my past like i am not confident i'm not self my self-esteem is still pretty low i'm like well anyway but he spoke into my life and he said no i know you can do this i accepted the the invitation or the the what he wanted me to manage and i accepted that and and wow in a week or two or three or four i'm like man this is amazing.

52:44I love managing this store. So I did have seven months of experience in his store. And so when I went and bought his store and I saw they had pretzels, I'm like, well, I guess we'll do pretzels again. So, you know, what I know is there wasn't a headhunter in the world that would have come looking for me to be the CEO of an international franchise organization because I was not qualified. But what I know, God saw me, He knew me, He called me, and He qualified me. And I feel like sometimes we miss the most important part of being in business. And the most important part, in my opinion, is having God at the forefront front of everything you do, wanting to honor him and wanting to finding his plan for your life.

53:41And guaranteed, he has a plan. But very often we go our way and we do what we want to do. And that's okay, too. But we're missing the greatest source, the resource that we have. We never stop and get quiet and ask about it and pray about it. I think that's right. I'm doing that and I'm doing that right now. It's so amazing. You just said that for me. Just so you know, I'm I'm wondering if some of my former dreams just no longer are. And I think sometimes you got to get with God and just have an audit and say, is this where I'm supposed to be now? You know, and what's what's the next thing look like?

54:19And I'm really doing a lot of that. And that was confirmation. How long did it take until you were successful with Auntie Anne's? The first, I would say the first day we walked into that store, we cleaned it, we remodeled it. My brothers and family came to my aid and they helped us clean up the store and remodeled and kind of the model that I had at the store where I worked for seven months. And we sort of followed that pattern as far as how to make pretzels and all that. And so the very first week in business, we did$857. dollars i'm like well i didn't know about profit and loss but i knew that we had eight hundred and fifty seven dollars in cash and i was surprised because they had never done that much um again it was just me and jonas and one of my sisters working the store but there was something about it that just like wow and so the pretzels were terrible and they really were and because we took their recipe but that's a whole long story but um in a in about two months we came up with a recipe of our own.

55:20I was going to take the recipe off of the menu because I hated our pretzels. They were terrible because I knew what a good pretzel was. And then Jonas here comes to the rescue and he goes to the store and buys some ingredients. We put it into our mix and voila, Auntie Anne's was born. And that day, so I would say the first day, the first week we had great sales, but about six to eight weeks later, we began selling pretzels, Ed, to where within a week or two, like immediately, we could not make the pretzels fast enough. And with a few weeks, we were making 90, we called them batches, mixes of pretzels.

55:57And each mix made 46 or more pretzels. So 80 times 40 is 3 ,600 pretzels a day. Oh my gosh. So fast that we, I mean, now I have another challenge. Like, how can I do this? So hire people and immediately we were making more money than we'd ever made in our lives. and it's a cash business. And I knew that in order to manage the cash, I couldn't grab money out of the till because I wanted to honor God. I wanted to be honest. I wanted to do it right. And so to do it well and to do it right as unto the Lord, this is my history, my background. And just, I don't know. I told Jonas, we're gonna, I counted the cash at the end of every week, which was only a two day market, two days, Friday and Saturday.

56:41Oh my gosh. Saturday nights I would get around midnight. I would count all the money by my bedside. I called it the three stack system. This is how simple I was. I'm a little smarter today. So I'm just saying, there's still a lot. I don't know, but let me tell you, Auntie has grew me up financially, you know, emotionally, professionally in every way. But back then I actually, Saturday night, I had three stacks of money. The first 10 % off the top is what i took to church the next day and then 30 i put into the bank for tax money and the rest of it was the expenses uh you know personal and and business expenses we put into an account that's the way i managed my money until until maybe a year and a half later maybe two years we got a vp of financing and he said auntie and i think we're going to have to get rid to the three stack system.

57:41And we're going to have to become a little more up to date. I said, go for it. Do whatever it takes. So yeah. However, though, that principle applies and it's or anything in life, which is they don't tithe and they don't save their money for taxes. The number one business thing that gets entrepreneurs usually is tax issues. They say they forget they're used to getting a paycheck where the taxes are taken out and they don't save their money for taxes. So you said, okay, we're successful. So how long before you had a second location? You're like, we need to scale this thing. So January, February, I'm sorry, we opened our first location in 1988.

58:17We did the second location July 4th. And by the end of that year, we were the combined store that we were making about$200 ,000 by the end of that year. Oh my gosh. We had, what in the world do you do with$200 ,000? We kept pouring it back. And we were very, very frugal, of course. But understanding now that we can actually, we have money in the bank, but putting it back into the company. And by 1990, we started, we had 35 locations more. So by 1992, we had 100 locations. 1995, we went halfway around the world doing an international store. But as far as the finances, it just became the more money we made, the more responsible and the more almost like, wow, I knew we couldn't spend this money.

59:16We needed to keep just pouring it into the business because we were growing so fast. What an explosive business. I mean, you don't. Very. I mean, that's usually what you hear is 15 years, one location. Then we had our second. Then it took off. that's it's almost like god was sitting there going you you're going to get through this time i'm gonna there is a huge blessing coming your way huge and it's going to happen pretty quickly too i mean reasons for success you know but i think the one number one reason for us was tithing and the work ethic that we had and and just our faith in god i don't know there's just a number there's lots of things beyond that well i want to ask you that that was my next question and We're going to go a little longer because this is too good.

59:56So why was it successful? So I'm talking about the non-spiritual piece of it. So clearly there's no way you can look at your story and not say this was God's work. There's just no way. And in anybody's story, in my story, just like there's no way this goofball, me, could have had any of the remote success, whatever I've had. Same here. There's no way. However, there are actual things I did that physically day to day separated me as an entrepreneur. So with all your humility there, why did it work? The physical, is there some business things you did that you're going this? I'll be honest with you.

1:00:32This was a secret or this is just something, a principle we applied over and over again that worked. Well, I think for anyone in business, whether whether it's whether you're faith based or not, I think it's really important, number one, to have a purpose. Why do you want to be in business? I mean, you have to ask yourself that question. I knew, we knew why we wanted to be in business, and that was our purpose. And it was simply so that we could be charitable. And that was the number one charity, of course, was to support Jonas, who then very quickly was able to get into an office. He was doing marriage counseling in our home or in the basement of the church or wherever.

1:01:12But very quickly then he became so busy and we were making a lot of money. So he was able to rent a building, an office to where then his counseling services grew from just him to me. Then two, three, four, five, six, eight, ten people counseling. They were we were paying them well. And also we there was that insurance plan. We've really wanted our employees to feel really good about their jobs, and we wanted to provide well for them because we knew Auntie Anne's was created to give, not just for us, but it was for our employees. It was for charitable organizations. And so our purpose was crystal clear as the company grew, bringing all the voices from around the country into our corporate office in Little Gap, Pennsylvania, Amish country.

1:02:08All kinds of ideas, all kinds of ethnic backgrounds, all kinds of cultures. Now we're all melting together in this office space corporate, which we had a large, we eventually moved to a very big office space. and um you know the bigger you get and the more employees you have the more voices you have uh opinions voices some good some bad but it's it's just part of growing a company and this little amish girl this my culture and my theology and all these things the business uh savvy that i was not uh began to like wow um i i don't know what to do with all these people but what i know today is you have to bring people into your company that know more than you do.

1:02:56And you have to be willing to ask questions. And even if you might know it, it's still really good to ask questions so that you become a part of the team instead of being the boss, which was never something. So I think, number one, have a purpose. And if you're in business for 10 years and you're not sure what your purpose is, it's never too late to figure it out. Find out what you love. and then learn to support or in whatever way, give of your time or whatever, but give, make it a purpose, something that you can give to. And then in our case, we were able to give financially, just crazy ways that I never even dreamed.

1:03:32I mean, from the 1987 in June, when we moved home to February in 1988, six months later, and about nine months after, by the end of that year, we were able to give a$50 ,000. I mean, I don't often talk about how much we gave, but you cannot even imagine. We were able to give someone that was doing great work a$50 ,000 check. Like, come on. We didn't have anything one year before that. We had nothing. And in less than two years, we were able to go from a no, we had no house. We had to rent a small place. And we were able to buy our own home less than two years after we started that company. And it's all because, all because God's blessing, the hard work, and my wonderful husband, who just refused to let go of me.

1:04:22And in that way, Ed, my husband honored God in his life by keeping his family together. What an unbelievable story. That was huge. And we know, I know that. He would never say that. Yeah. And you would never brag about you either. That's the other thing. I really want to meet him. I hope I get the blessing of meeting him. He'll come do one of our events. And then, so number two, let me go to number two, and there's a purpose. And then number two is obviously you have to have a product that is better than the best. I mean, you have to have a product that is better than what's out there. Maybe not better, but as good or competitive to what's out there.

1:05:02But in my case, we had a food product, and so we knew it was better than the best. But the point is you have to believe in your product. Yes. Leave in your product, number two. And then number three, people. I learned from my mom and dad the importance of loving people. I mean, if you don't love people, then find you a computer and stay at home and work on your computer. Well, I mean, many people do that and they're still having a business or whatever. But seriously, many of us have to. We've got to work out there among the living, you know. Yes. And I love people. And I had people tell me early on at Auntie Anne's Lake.

1:05:37And I would say, I just love my people. And they would say, you know, experts maybe in the industry, you know, it's really not a good idea to love your people because I'm like, oh, really? I almost believe them. Like meaning don't get too chummy with your employees, too friendly. But I got to know my people and I loved my people. And when you do that, they will be loyal to your purpose. No doubt about it. So that combination, in my opinion, is what drove us to success. I cannot agree with you more. And I got the same advice as I was coming up in business. Don't do close to people because if you have to let them go or they'll get comfortable, they won't work really hard for you.

1:06:13I think usually people live up to the way that you treat them and that if you believe in them. And if you think about how the power of belief in people, what if that man after the first day that you went to work at a store didn't come to your house and just pour belief into you? Probably Auntie Anne's doesn't exist, right? So the power of belief is evidence just with that man who own that store with you. We underestimate our words to every employee that comes into your company. You know, build him up. You don't have to say things that are not true because everybody has a gift. Everybody has a personality.

1:06:42Everybody has something that you can compliment on. You may not even, I mean, you may be having problems with that employee, but you can always find something to say to them that will build them up. It's true. And that's - You're tremendous at that. You're tremendous at it. You also, can I tell you what I think you do beautifully well? And it's just probably just who you are. Because I always teach what you just said. Make sure you're finding someone's giftedness and the things you love about them and tell them. And I think I do a really, really good job of that. You do it at an even different level that you almost do it.

1:07:15You do it spoken. But I think people feel it around really tremendous, influential people, unspoken. There's just a feeling when I'm around you. And by the way, other people have said this about you as well. You feel loved. You feel cared for. Even in an unspoken way. You pay such close attention when someone's talking to the man. It's something that you take for granted, but they're the only person in the room when they're speaking to you. And that's an unspoken thing. And I think there's all these little things that you just do beautifully. The truth is you just truly value people because you see them as a brother and sister in Christ.

1:07:55And I think that that's, there's the spoken word, which I'm pretty good at. And then there's people that are another level, which is where I think you are, whereas they just feel this from you. And that's, by the way, if you're listening to this and going, I don't have any entrepreneurial skills. If you have that skill where you love and believe in people, you probably have the most important entrepreneurial skill. Yeah, I agree with that. What was the hardest part? What was the hardest part, Anne? Oh, it was all hard. All of it was hard. You know, the enjoyment of actually finding a product and starting our store was, you know, it was fun.

1:08:27It was exciting, scary as well. in many times and many obstacles, but the challenge and what I began to feel, the challenge of that, and the excitement and the understanding that I can do something that I had no clue, and beginning to feel the responsibility may have been my greatest challenge.

1:09:02Feeling responsibility. Now, all of this is what is happening on the outside. God gave us this gift, this pretzel to take around the world. So I began to feel the responsibility of being a really good leader. And the hardest part, well, my mind is going in a thousand different directions right now, but I feel like the hardest part for me was growing up. It was, I knew I couldn't stay the same. I knew I could not stay who I was. Although I know God loved me in that place. He didn't make demands on me, but he was guiding me. He was teaching me. He was helping me. and I began to feel the responsibility that if I'm going to do this and I want to keep the anti-ann's purpose and vision and culture alive, then I have to, I really need to focus on the internal part of who I am.

1:10:02And that became my greatest challenge. And you know why? Because there was tough inside of me. And this takes me to the next season of my life, which is authenticity. And I wrote about that in my book, Overcome and Lead. Man, if your history keeps following you and you keep, you know, you're dragging it along like a ball and chain, you feel weighed down and you feel more frustration than you do joy and excitement, then it just means there's something weighing you down. I mean, it could mean something is weighing you down. And so I didn't realize I was carrying a lot of my inner struggles with me into the company.

1:10:41And it was all right for a while. But at some point, again, something happened in 1995. And we were now in the business about seven years. And we were in the middle of just, I mean, we were in Indonesia now. And I'm starting to feel like the company is so big that I'm starting to feel like I'm almost, I couldn't understand why I felt controlled. but it was a part of the my history that i had never dealt with and that's when my world began to crumble and it was in the middle of that that i had our oldest daughter came home and said that she was also abused by this man and i crashed and i burned and during that time i was going to leave i knew i in order to be happy i it was overwhelming to me that he would do this to her I can't even explain that to you, but I crashed and burned.

1:11:35But it's because I hadn't dealt with my history. So now it's a culmination. And so that's why I talk a lot about open up and be authentic. And that's when I had to start, began to work on the internal life of who I really was. And that's a whole other podcast. But that was the hardest part of my journey, becoming more. because i really thought you know at some point i mean i knew i had to grow and i had to learn professionally and now you can do that when you're around people that know more than you do and you grow in your work but wow all of that was going well but inside i was falling apart the internal work that i did at that point i went to a counselor with the advice of jonas he said i went on a trip one day and he said don't come home today gotta go see doc oh i didn't want to i didn't want i mean that was and i spent about the next six years um seeing doc dobbins and that's when the internal work that i did had has paid off tremendously i'm still at antian's and we sold the company in 05 but i began to soar during that time uh during my counseling and the internal work that i did i was still i was getting better all the time so i mean And I felt the benefits of internal work that I was doing because now I'm starting to feel freedom like I had never experienced in my entire life from darkness to light.

1:13:05And now I'm taking the light into the business world. I'm more. I have freedom. I'm able to really be authentic with everybody that I meet. And, you know, you talked about me loving people and the promise that God gave to me on my bed many years ago. he who is forgiven much loves much. And so his words to me became true. I don't understand that kind of love, and I can't tell you how I do that or even that I do that. But when you've been loved in that way by God and then by a husband who loves you in that way, the impact is, at the end of the day, is humbling. And you want other people to experience that.

1:13:47When you say internal work, are you saying that you would recommend to somebody if they've got unresolved trauma or issues that they go to therapy? Is that what you're suggesting? Absolutely. Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. Because a lot of people in the faith community, I don't know, I shouldn't say that. But I think I get that sense, too, is that you just pray about it. And I think God delivers brilliant people into your life or carrying people into your life for a reason. and they're a blessing that he sent you and that maybe they're an answer to prayer. If you'll engage with them. Yes, yes, absolutely.

1:14:26I think that you're well spoken. And I feel like, you know, people say, why be authentic? Why care? Why in the world of business? Yes. In the world of business, we can learn how to be that. And, you know, it's like at the ATNs, we took the word light. and I always knew that Antians was created to be light in the world of business. And light is, it doesn't say a word, but it makes things visible. And so that was very impressive to me because God really was clear with me, I want you to be light in the world of business. I didn't know exactly what that meant, but I began to research and try to understand what does that mean.

1:15:10At the end of the day, what it really meant was to be an influence. And, you know, Jesus, when he walked about doing good, there was something about him. It wasn't always what he said. It's who he was. I mean, I know that sounds like something way up here that we can hardly attain. But I began to think about light and the power of it. And as light makes things visible, it attracts people. Anytime you see a little light in the middle of darkness, you see that light. And the light's not saying anything. It's just there. And, you know, that has really been my prayer. And I believe today in the world in which we live, people are looking for light.

1:15:56They're looking for someone. They're looking for a man or a woman or a young man or a young girl to notice them. People want to be noticed. and I think that as people of light that that's our job is to notice people oh my gosh notice them and and and go to them and be light I don't know what that means maybe given someone in the airport when you're running through it like a wild woman you stop and give them 20 they're cleaning the restrooms notice people I mean there's all kinds of ways and every time you notice someone it's powerful and imagine yourself being a crazy wild business matter woman you have people around you and if you will stop and notice them that to me is that to me is a part of light you're light filled and you just want people to experience being free being authentic i love you right where you are.

1:16:57I don't know what's going on in your life. You may want to tell me what's going on in your life. And as I began to share my life and as I began to open up my life and people began to hear my story after my, after my therapy and during my therapy, I began to become more free. You know, it just attracts people to you because we want to be known. we just want to be known and so many people don't feel seen heard appreciated they don't even feel like they exist and it's by the way i've never heard it said the way you just said it and it's a thousand percent correct and it's what you do ann i gotta tell you people will also follow the light and if you're a light leader they will follow you and it's last night i had dinner in town and you know that I live out on an island here in the summertime.

1:17:52And so we got on the boat last night and it was completely dark. And I probably should have turned around, truthfully, but I didn't. And but what I did the entire ride out to the island is I kept saying to myself, follow the light, follow the light, follow the light. There was a light in this very dark place. And I think in life it was such a I didn't realize it until you just said it, but it's such a metaphor and a truth about life that most people are in a pretty dark place in some way. And it may not be so dark that they've lost a child in their presence or that they're being abused for seven years.

1:18:27Their darkness may just be shame from their childhood, or they just don't feel good about themselves, or someone's left them in a relationship where they're in a job that they just knows not their calling and their purpose. And if you could just be a light, you know, like you are anyway, we ask you a last question. First off, I, before I step back, make sure you get her book she doesn't have a whole lot of places for you to go fall where would we send them to find you and a website to my website auntie and by glory is simple just go there and that will tell you what i'm doing the books we have and also instagram we're on there um has some online courses that they they will find um if they go to my website which will take you to everything that we're doing and the overcome and lead i love that book and i right there just happened to have the one and then there's another one i have it's called the secret lies within i would recommend either one of those but if you're actually both of them are are my story and you know what i did and um hopefully it encourages people to uh just be open and real and honest it's so which is what you which you are i i introduced the show today i love when i introduced the show and then like it even exceeds what I said but this is I don't know why everyone does not know your story and now I'm hoping after today most of them will because I don't know everybody have you ever heard anything like this in your entire life I mean seriously from a woman who can tell it in such an incredible way with such humility with the gifts that she has it's just I'm so honored that we got to do this today and I truly am but I want to I want to finish because you just helped so many people today.

1:20:04So I just want to give you a general question, kind of like serve back to you for the last one. And that is that if someone's listening or watching and they've stayed to the end, so I want to give them a big reward. And they're doing that today. And they're like, you know, I feel like I'm called for more and I'm in a dark place, or it's just at least maybe I'm not in a totally dark place, but it's not filled with light. I I want to change my life. What general advice, tip, tactics, strategy, thought would you give to that person if they had a chance to ask you that in person? You're called for more because you are called for more, not just a feeling, but you are.

1:20:44If you feel it and you hear it and you sense it, you're called for more. My simple advice is just open up your life to someone. that's the power of confession it's the power of authenticity because when you open up your life you get unstuck you know and talk about your frustrations and your feelings as a as a business person or a wife or someone that's a husband or someone that you're so inundated with the even just the pressure of life and you feel like you're stuck in this this place where i can't move call your best friend or someone that you can trust, obviously, someone that won't take your story and use it against you, but someone that can listen well.

1:21:31And as you're talking, pay attention to them. Are they listening? And if you can find a good listener, it will open you up to the more, which means that the reason we're stuck is because we're full up. the fear. We're drowning in our own selves. And when you begin to talk to somebody, you begin to unload all of these things that you're struggling with alone, and you were not meant to carry all of it alone. And I would recommend you don't do it sitting at the bar. Like, okay, that's one place you can do it. But no, I'm talking about, you know, invite your friend to your house or go have copy or, but just determine.

1:22:17And I've had women tell me already, there's nobody that I can talk to. And I've done one. Number one, that's not true. That's a lie. And so I would say, ask God to show you, direct you to somebody that would listen to you and your struggles. That's the beginning of more. That's what it was for me. I love that. I got to tell you, everybody, you know who it is for me now in my life? My mom. At this late stage of my life, it's my mom. So there's somebody. Yes. There's somebody. And it's changed for me who those people are over my lifetime. But it's my mom. My mom in her 70s. And I never had that until she was probably two years ago.

1:22:56I started to open up to my mom a little bit and then a little bit more. And you know what? It's my mom. That's who it is for me now. And sometimes it's not what they say back. It's you listening to yourself. That's the whole point. What an honor for your mother, for you as a son to bring her into your life that way. Greatest honor for any mother. Oh, I love this. Today was unbelievable, Anne. And I'm glad that I got through it with limited tears so that I could be present with you. And I just want to thank you. And I can't wait to see you in a few weeks. And I'm going to do everything I can to share your story with as many people as I can.

1:23:35So I love you and thank you. And God bless you. Thanks so much. Thank you, Ed. And bless you, too. All right. All right, everybody. Max out. Share this episode. I think you're gonna. This is the Ed Myron Show.