635: $76M in 3 Years: The Meta Ads System Working in 2026 | Nick Shackelford

18:51Nathan Chan:But the big number on the ROAS side makes me feel really good. It makes me feel like it's working. And it is, but if you don't know your numbers, which early on we talked about this, like can I make money, the calculator we used to play with in the first one. Know your numbers, which provides the confidence in which you were able to accelerate the spend to generate more customers. But if you don't know your numbers, you're not going to feel confident doing this. So first off, we would talk about, can we expand just on the specific creative that you have in that to see if that 5 ,000 go to 6 ,000?

19:20Nathan Chan:If they're only buying one of them, is there an easy way, does the product lends itself to buying more? Buy one, get one. Buy two, get three. Buy two, get one. The different types of plays, because what I'm trying to do, I want to manipulate the AOV. I want to manipulate it, but maybe play with a free shipping threshold. What is the mean across of them rather than the average? So I would look towards the AOV because give the founder of the team a little bit more confidence that they could spend a little bit more money without having to do major changes. Major changes meaning build a new website, go find new creators or go find new assets.

19:54Nathan Chan:Like that takes time. It's not a today thing. And so a today thing is I can make a new bundle. I can add the secondary product. Second is I would probably just ask the customers that have been buying, especially at the beginning. You don't really know why they're buying it. You're hoping for a specific reason. So I would probably shoot off a couple just from the founder emails because at that size, it's not that super. It's not that big. Customer base is probably growing a little bit, but you can get a couple that's bought multiple times from you. Can you either call them or ask them to give you a little bit of a testimony immediately?

20:25Nathan Chan:A screenshot testimonial of a review from an email from a founder does very well as just a plain asset. Probably would stick there immediately. And my question would actually go to the back. Are these people coming back and buying on their own? That repeat purchase rate is important to me because they might be buying it. It fit the right price point. They didn't have to ask their partner to spend this dollar amount. They didn't have to think twice. They were maybe in the market already for this specific product. But if they're not coming back on their own free will to buy it, or maybe they've seen an open email came back, I probably think about if they're not coming back, how good really is it?

21:02Nathan Chan:We were able to fool them once. We use that term loosely, fool them to buy it. but if they're not coming back on their own, that might actually, it might not be there. Product market fit might actually not be there.

21:12Nick Shackelford:It's really interesting as well. You know, there was this boom time COVID and then there was iOS 14 stuff. And then, you know, now I'm seeing like a season where, you know, we've got AI, we're in a real creative mix with, you know, this ecosystem play, which I love what you're going with and how you're making all these other brands that you work with, just not only just like kind of scale, but really scale. But you talk about signals. I'd love to hear, right? Like, because I'm seeing, I speak to a lot of people. We talked about this. Like I get a lot of stuff where people write to me and all sorts of things going on.

21:52And a trend I am noticing is Facebook is back, right?

21:57Nick Shackelford:Like Facebook, it's not like it was three, four years ago, like where it was like, you know, I hear a lot of friends be like, oh my God, it's like, it's really tough. So it is back, but the signals piece has changed. And you said to me, you know, meta hasn't stopped working. Founders just stopped listening to the right signals. What do you mean by that? I think this is actually what we're speaking about towards more Andromeda.

22:23Nathan Chan:Like the Andromeda papers that came out a while ago. It's not new now. It might be new to someone listening to this for the first time or not aware. Like they knew something changed, but what really did change? I think that they will refer to Andromeda, one of the Andromeda updates. There's a couple. I implore you guys to go look into it. Gem Lattice, and there's one other one, Sequence, and I believe.

22:46If I see between 20 to 40, if I'm really aggressive,

22:53Nathan Chan:20 to 40 new ad accounts on a weekly basis, 20 to 40. low spend, high spend, different countries. And you look at it, you go inside and you go, they're probably have one or two or three creatives that are all the same. And they're really working. Like they're like, these are, you go like, what are your best at? They send it to you and they'll look the same to dude or to check talking about the product. Here's what it is. It's the same thing. Like the difference might've been like, she's in her kitchen versus her bathroom. It's all the same signal. The signal is a white girl, a white guy in a bathroom, in a kitchen, whatever it is, same shit.

23:32Nathan Chan:The more the diverse it is, and this is where you heard me talking about the AOV, the intro, like the customer that we're able to speak to, meta knows what they're willing to spend on and how likely they are to spend at different levels of threshold of spend. The person that's going to buy a$30, a$45, a$200, that signal, you're not listening to that you're not listening to what they're the frequency in which they're buying but because we're only presenting them the same thing one product on a product page home page maybe there's a collection page with a couple things into a product page they don't have the ability to create multiple scenarios of aov output probably probably it's probably the same thing on a day-to-day basis the more diverse you are able to position different aovs different landing page experiences and the different ads that they see to get there is going to produce a different outcome that you need to continue to reward and tell Meta, I want more of these people.

24:29Nathan Chan:I want more 112 AOVs. I don't want the$55. Or I want the$55, but it needs to be much cheaper than what you can afford to. And before that, you just put it in one ad set. Like it'd be one campaign, one ad set. You'd have 30 to 40 ads into it. They're all buying different things. They're all going through the same experience potentially. And that's not, that's confusion. It's just more confusion to it. Because before, what did we used to do beforehand? Five or six ads. You do interest-based targeting. You'd stack it. You do some lookalike audiences. You'd stack it. Then you go broad, right? So you have like, that's like the normal way that people would kind of launch the accounts.

25:07Nathan Chan:There's nothing technically wrong with this. But what is the hypothesis of what this is going to produce for you? And how are you making better decisions off of the signals that Meta is giving you? I think that's the confusion part that most people have now.

25:23Nick Shackelford:When it comes to creative, I've got friends, one particular comes to mind. He told me he took a portion of his budget, and this is something that some people don't think about. He took a portion of his budget. Let's just say he was spending a couple hundred grand a month. Instead of spending a couple hundred grand, he started spending$180 ,000. and he put like$20 ,000 into just like a full day shoot, creating the craziest creative and he doubled his business. What would you say to founders when it comes to creative and looking at 2026 paid advertising, performance, creative? How much should you be diversifying into testing and looking at creative right now?

26:07Nick Shackelford:Especially with AI, like you see so many things around like, oh i created this with ai like you know what i mean yeah i have a is uh the ai so do you want

26:17Nathan Chan:me to start with the ai thing or do you want me to go like the overall view put a creative because i think yeah let's go the last letter yeah okay the first off congratulate for him to be able to invest that much out into an asset into a campaign into just like a test that's scary for me like i think the lowering the beauty of ai i'll tie it together the beauty of the ai means like speed to ideation to initial output is way quicker and way more cost effective. Because I still believe, I talked about this, I believe in the smoke test. I've always believed in the smoke test. I think it's the easiest way to make logical investments into where you're going.

26:52Nathan Chan:And I'm assuming your partner or one of your founder friends got to this place. So I'll explain to you how I care about this. We call it the smoke test and it starts with the ideation. It's usually product. it's the concept that we care about. For this case, I'll use ours. So the product is a beverage replacing alcohol. It is what we ID. So it's a beverage outside or it's beverage in a setting of a social scenario. It's just a plain image that AI can either create for us, or we already have it from a basic photo shoot. The concept, we will have the bold call out of what we would want on it in bold text, whether that's in the copy or it's actually on the image itself because i do believe meadow makes the reads of the image for those words and then based upon the performance and maybe i have three of those the core concept okay at a bar at a campfire in your house but the same as like replace alcohol try something better that initial depending on like the cost per cpm depending on the cost per carts depending on the cost per click i'm trying to get like a little bit of like is there smoke here is it worth investing more time and effort the image works and performs.

27:57Nathan Chan:Then I'm going to move into, do I make a motion graphic similar to what I just shot? Maybe the can spins, maybe the girl picks it up and puts it down. That's a second level of investment. More time, a little bit, maybe a little bit more money. Third goes into maybe it's full fledged UGC or what we call EGC, employee generated content because it's quicker and faster and cheaper. And then after that point, I'm only, then it's been able to graduate, like performance looked good at the smoke, performance looked a little bit better at the motion graphic because it's now hitting up a different ad placement now I'm gonna go full video investment and then now it's like we've seen the quality of this over a period of week three weeks a month I I feel the confidence in investing in this overall concept I'm gonna make as much as I humanly possibly can that's that's a logical investment from a creative knowing that the engine that we need is more creative diverse creative and quality of that creative and you know the angle and you know the angle you've validated multiple times, you didn't just get an incredible weekend where it popped off, right?

28:56Nathan Chan:I think that's the, but what's the, what's the challenge there? How many of those do we get? What's the engine of us? We continually start this up. So when you go into this, some of these brands are spending a hundred, 200,$300 ,000 a month, the engine is often very difficult to do because you have two agencies over here. You have a creator manager over there. So the, the, the organization of the person that's driving that engine is very, very important to feed the machine of meta. And that, so then you come into AI. I live in two different places because first off, our brand is very AI focused.

29:31Nathan Chan:Like you would think about it, but it's all motion graphic. We use zero AI. I'm in the camp of going, dude, don't be unethical. Don't do fake men losing hair and like dripping. And it's like, oh my God, I got full head and hair. Like people are going to take it very, very far. And people are doing it right now. I have this one brand that I love them to death and they are a little bit more aggressive than I personally like to tend to be. It's better for like gut health and cleansing. What happens when it happens in your gut? Sometimes you get viruses.

30:06Nathan Chan:It's like pretty graphic creative of it's like these viruses are in your stomach. Like that's like it just hits you. But then what it's selling you is like a spoonful of a medicine. And then you're going to buy 12 bottles. That's a lot. That is a different approach to it. But that creative works because what it is, it's agitate into problem solution. So I get it.

30:30Nick Shackelford:They're fee-based.

30:31Nathan Chan:Super fee-based. But these guys have been doing, they've been ripping. Do you know how many times they would rip or how many I've come across? The fake Joe Rogan CGI pitching thing. Dude, I've actually seen you a couple of times way back when. You'd be on a podcast or something. I was like, that's not me. No way. You've never sent me that, man. I've got to dig this shit up. I don't know why I didn't send it to you. But it was like you doing a full podcast interview with a guy that definitely did not interview. No way. Seriously? Yeah. I'm actually really – just remember, I'm so bummed. I have this.

30:59Nathan Chan:I have this. I've got to find this. But it's always existed. It's just like the ethics in which people are going to leverage it to the point. I think if you're a new founder now, you AI incorporation of holding the product. Don't you? I think when it gets weird, when you start doing a lot of faces or like UGC speaking to thing, now you're now you're now it's not real. What I think and I brought this up to you because you and the founder crew was like, hey, if Nathan, you said it, but if they want to scale the type of creative of you and it's you and you've approved it, this is your shit. wouldn't you just say, hey, like make me 30 videos of me saying these things I said a couple weeks ago?

31:40Nathan Chan:Why not? That's not unethical. You did it. It's you.

31:45Nick Shackelford:So what's the common thing that you see? You said you see 20 to 40 ad accounts on the high level a week. What's the common mistake that you see? And I guess really from understanding, like from a brand, they've got traction, somewhat traction. Like it's just not a brand new account. there's just like it's not a brand new brand there's just come in and it's like oh hey my ads aren't working um what was the common mistake that you see founders are making there they usually fall in a couple of buckets the biggest bucket would be they have too many ads too many ads

32:19Nathan Chan:in too little of ad sets and too little of campaigns yeah um when you go into each of these campaigns it's uh small iterations of things that have worked in the past and it's like 10 or 15 of these. And so on a daily basis, that ad might get a couple of dollars of spend or the spend gets concentrated to like maybe two or three, but those aren't the ones that are driving the revenue. So it's like too much. Meta can't sort through what they should actually allocate spend towards. And you go and you're like, dude, this has been running for 20 days, maybe a month, and it's only gotten$40 in spend, but you have 20 ads that got$40 in spend.

32:57Nathan Chan:So it's just eating away at the budget and it's like kind of like what I call like a slow chew. It's like chewing through budget, it's not really getting you any learnings. And then you have the other side where they're too few of assets and they're not getting new things introduced into enough. I live in two different buckets around the people like, how do I scale? They ask this question, like, how are you scaling? And depending on the scenario in the ad account, I do believe in a graduation period or what we call scale it where it lies. Graduation period is I prove this out at a certain level in my testing campaign.

33:29Nathan Chan:And I'm going to duplicate it into another campaign, isolate it, and maybe make variations, and then launch it. Specifically, it's one ad works. It's maybe a video of a girl selling the product. And then I'm going to pull a clip out. I'm going to make an image of it. I'm going to make a motion graphic of it. And I'm going to keep that original video. So we know something about this is working. Let's give it its chance to kind of flourish by itself. That's one. That's like the graduation style. And the other style would be scale it where it lies. So if it's performing in the ad account, rule one, don't fix it if it's not broken.

34:03Nathan Chan:Increase the budget. So then that way you're just trying to scale it and increase the budget where it is. You start to look at the ones that are starting to work. They're really only running to one or two pages. Again, it's shocking. It will work. It will work. But when it doesn't work, and I was talking to a brand this morning. He runs his products exclusively in Italy. He notices that after the 15th of the month, the amount of purchases that are happening are much less because they're running out of money towards the back half of the month. So supplements. And he goes, yeah, I really only have two things working.

34:39Nathan Chan:I have my BOGO campaign working and I can't crack this new test we're going from Page, but the new test is 80 % of his budget. It's scary for me. If that one campaign is not working as 80 % of the overall budget, but yet it's not performing like it was, what do you do? You don't have options. So you have to have multiple things in the ad account producing at different levels at all the time. It's that ecosystem of how you have to run it. So I usually try to push them. I was like, okay, what is the secondary product we can do? Can we bundle around this? Can we reposition how people are selling this?

35:11Nathan Chan:I push them as hard as I can into those two different directions just because, A, they don't have the muscle. or B, they're kind of half-assing it.

35:22Nick Shackelford:One thing I also see as well, and it's a common thing, I don't know if you see it, is there's a psychological piece around scaling. My favorite.

35:37Nick Shackelford:The numbers are there, but you just can't, like the person just can't bring themselves to truly kind of just, like you said, add zeros. what is that and how do you help founders work through that because that's tough right and if it's your own money then it's easy for you because you've spent at the highest of all high levels you've maxed out the accounts but yeah there's this kind of psychological fear and mindset piece of just like i'll just add like you know maybe an extra hundred dollars like they scale too slow

36:09Nathan Chan:like like all that pays yeah dude and i'm saying this as i owe amex like four hundred thousand dollars on my credit cards like i'm saying this from like someone that like knows i have credit card interest building right now uh and so it's very real like my money that credit card that's linked to google so i feel this i i i think i i have a little bit of a disassociation to to the zeros or the dollars on the account now because of how long i've been doing it that's I'll start there. So I'm aware of where I'm, I'm aware of the privilege of what I have before I say this. Your, the confidence in the numbers is going to allow you to feel more confident in increasing the budget.

36:50Nathan Chan:And so first off, they probably aren't super confident in where they are. So we have to, we have to start there to fix that. Say, say we get to a point where like, yeah, I understand this is working. It makes sense. That's the baseline. The difference between a really good media bar, and this is a little tongue in cheek, the difference between a really good media buyer and a bad media buyer is that a really good media buyer knows how to spend money. Very loaded paragraph. The reason is that they've seen the scenarios in which they should increase the budget and they've seen the scenarios in which they should reduce the budget.

37:19Nathan Chan:And a lot of this is reassurance of what we do. We call like the accordion view. The accordion view is the day of you're making decisions today. Today isn't actually those aren't the decisions. The decisions you're making today are actually based upon what has been happening for the past week. So you're deciding we have three decisions on each day. If it's working, I either increase the budget. If it's not working, I decrease the budget. Or if it's too soon to tell, I leave it be. Then I accordion out. I go to the past three days of trend. Spend has been, budget's being exhausted.

37:56Nathan Chan:The metrics around cart, the cost of cart, the metrics around cost per click, the metrics around CPM are trending in a stable or decline to the positive direction. It's getting more cost effective. Then I accordion out again to seven days. And we still see that trend. Maybe at the beginning it was too expensive and it wasn't hitting or it stopped spending for a couple of days. So the further you accordion out and then you come back into the day-to-day and make a decision. Because now I go, today this looks good. Why does it look good? Because based upon the last three days, the trend of conversion has increased.

38:30Nathan Chan:The amount of budget being spent on this ad has increased or stayed the same um and the performance of the carts have been steadily at a place where this will be profitable on the next conversion next purchase so this like constant view of today but three today but three plus seven but today plus three plus seven plus 14 it's it is a it's a muscle and it's a routine of habit of checking uh you were shocked that we do day-to-day, we do hourly updates, right? Crazy. We do hourly updates. When you're dropping a mil a month, which this is a peak in July and August, the last year before we went into a retail expansion, that's important.

39:12Nathan Chan:I don't think people will spend, if you're spending$100 ,000 a month, I don't know if you need hourly, it'd be cool. But what are you really making decisions on at that point? The more channels you have, the more updates you need because the different type of opportunities you can potentially scale, I think that that's where it gets the more intense. when when you are getting an hourly update on performance you start to realize that uh a change that i make at 7 a.m will dramatically the change i made at increasing budget at 7 a.m if not reviewed by noon and if not reviewed by 3 p.m in your time zone will result in you ruining a profitable day that's crazy I think that's what I think and and it's manual this is also a very very important thing to me AI comes it makes it a lot more easier for you to ask a couple questions I love sidekick from Shopify I think I use this on a daily basis I'm like hey can you give me like retraining customers versus new customers I love I love second I think it's great we use claw we use a couple other tools I don't have anything custom but I want these people pulling it every single day I want them to see the numbers I want them I want the scenario to come to me after like I want it to be a dashboard interactive sure it could be pretty sure but i want them to be like inputting we spent this on meta yesterday we've acquired this many aob subscribers etc and i want them to see it because you got to be in it if not you're not really you're not really in it you're not really operating you're just uh you're playing so i think you really broke down like a really

40:45Nick Shackelford:good framework for founders if they want to scale but one thing i want to talk to you about is agencies fail when founders don't understand their own numbers. Oh, God, okay. And what do founders need to know before handing over their ad spend? And you have many different agencies, founder operators. This is going to be an incredible membership that we're launching. We're going to help founders know their numbers, scale up. What do they need to know?

41:13Nathan Chan:Yeah, I hear you on this one. So as an agency owner, we will lose more than we will win if the founder comes in and says like, a ROAS needs to be a 3X. We're like, okay, like how did you get there? Is 3X at 100 ,000 to spend? 3X at 400 ,000 to spend? Like the conversation, the narrative around like your ROAS is this, your ROAS is like, this is important. ROAS doesn't mean shit. ROAS is what the dashboards are telling you. You look at Triple Whale, you look at Northbeam, you look at Meta, you look at Google, you look at Snapchat, you look at Shopify. They're all giving you weird stuff. They're all on different attributions.

41:51Nick Shackelford:You can't trust them. And they're all gunning to show you that they've got your return.

41:55Nathan Chan:Yeah. So you stay in the dashboard. Yeah. You keep hitting the refresh there. So on the agency side, and this is kind of like where this is rooted in, is contribution dollars, cash available to deploy, money in the bank account. What is your Shopify payouts looking like? Like what is the net revenue that you're able to, that you're, you predict that you're going to be able to use for, for the day-to-day working capital. I was never needing to do that. When I'm, when I'm just agency, I go like, cool, what are the numbers I need to make sure I hit? Ross is this cool. Then I can spend, they always do this, spend unlimited budget on, on as long as you're getting a two X or three X such bullshit because that, that all that means to me is either a two things.

42:38Nathan Chan:Actually, I'll take that back to two things. It means that they know the numbers so well, so well that they go, just look at this one number right here, ROAS. Okay. Or they don't know at all and they believe that it makes them feel good because others have told them that you should be at a 3X. And so as an agency, you're like, all right, well, I got to understand how you do this. So you take the product costs and the shipping costs, their average order value, their dollars. You can put in the team that is being – dollars being spent on the agency, the fee. It has to go into the overall net profit you have to make.

43:16Nathan Chan:You go into the cost of advertising dollars. Are they covering shipping? Are you covering shipping? So there's so many scenarios that you have to kind of plan through that. and the fluctuation of like how much of this is new customers versus returning. So literally all of that, like we walked through all these dashboards yesterday and there's no just like one place to like plug it all in. You can get close, like you can be dangerous, but you're not going to get specific. But if you're not specific, you're not going to be able to spend into a confidence that is going to make you feel like I can't increase this not by$20, but by$2 ,000 today.

43:49Nathan Chan:And it does take some handholding. It does take some everyday updating and dashboarding and checking. but as soon as you start getting the trends over long periods of time, you feel confident. For instance, if Al, who's my head of performance, he's going to come to me and he's like, Shaq, yesterday, first time customer AOV was$107. Our blended new customer, our new customer CAC was$65 and our CAC to LTV is$230. He can give me these three numbers. I go, okay, you could have spent$120 minimum, including product cost. and you could have allowed that CAC. So that CAC could have been 120, not 60, because I know that payback was already going to hit month zero, the month I acquired them.

44:33Nathan Chan:And so what we were doing in the call was like, what if we spent two times what we spent last month and acquired two times the amount of customers? What would that result in? And then you scenario it all out. Are they coming back or not? And I think that an agency is not going to do that. They just won't. They don't have the time. You're renting the human cow that you're getting that is going to allocate a little bit of moo to you, and that's it. And it's shocking. We have three agencies. I'm very proud of these agencies. I love them to death. I think the leadership team is incredible there. But we, by design, and you're paying for this, you're paying for collective knowledge and acceleration of learning and a level of professionalism and confidence in decision-making.

45:15Nathan Chan:That's an agency. That's counsel, right? Yep. let's say someone's running paid media. I'll use USD. I won't do the AUD 30 % off on this one. USD, say someone's running paid media, they're$100 ,000 spent client. They're doing their email themselves. You're going to spend on an agency between$5 ,000 and$7 ,500. Maybe that includes creative. Maybe they get edits, whatever. or the$5 ,000 to$7 ,500 you put towards ad spend or new creative or a portion of that's paid towards someone that can look over your shoulder and allow you to get the confidence to make these decisions. You pay a fraction of that,$15 ,000 to$2 ,000,$2 ,500, and now you are in control of everything.

46:04Nathan Chan:But that's literally a net save of, what's an average contract, six months? Yeah. Do the math. Three, six months, yeah. Thousands of dollars you just blew. Yeah. so dude

46:13Nick Shackelford:that's what I'm really pumped to talk about I could talk to you about this all day it gets me really fun dude we could talk about all day you have just absolutely just thrown straight fire on Facebook ads the technical setup how to scale in 2026 I want to quickly just touch on founder operators because this is a community we're launching right and we are so excited to build this incredible special community where we're going to help you really kind of go through, learn the numbers, build that marketing strength in-house if you want to learn it. And so what does it mean to you to be an operator and why should people seriously think about joining this community?

46:54Nathan Chan:So I think I've been wanting to talk about this for a very long time. I'm not a visionary. I'm a partner in everything. Everything I've done, I've always been a partner in it, right? There's a reason why this isn't like a big Nick Shackelford shenanigan thing, dude. I believe I'm incredible. I'm an incredible support system. I'm an incredible manager. I'm an incredible executor, which by definition, all those three things roll into an operator. I like the day-to-day. I like the management of the team. I like the incredibly conversation. I like the incredible deep, hard conversations of the shit you have to do.

47:31Nathan Chan:And I also, what I would say, I'm always on a pursuit of my locker room. Growing up and playing sports, growing up and playing in groups, I want to be like around common beliefs and interests of people doing. That's why I love in-person events. That's why I love community around areas of interest for myself. And if it wasn't for e-commerce, if it wasn't for online marketing, if it wasn't for agency, if it wasn't for digital, I would be a high school soccer coach at Mater Dei High School in Orange County, California. I'd be doing, and nothing's wrong with that. That'd be awesome. But instead, I've been able to, I'm here, been able to influence and help a lot, a lot of founders in this world.

48:14Nathan Chan:And you start to realize the more that you do this thing, everybody in your life has no idea what it is that you do. They see you open a computer. I love my wife to death, 17 years. She still is like, I don't know what you do. I hear you talking and yapping in the phone all the time, but I don't know what you do. When you have a community that you only have to say a couple words and they fully understand what it is that you're going through and then have actual critical feedback or an opinion on it, it just means a lot more. Yeah.

48:42Nick Shackelford:So look, dude, we are synthesizing the framework, the source, the system, the blueprint. It's going to be a really special community, Founder Operators. We have to work towards wrapping up. But if you guys enjoyed this, I just want to say thank you, Nick. You've given us just an absolute masterclass on Facebook ads. I hope you guys enjoyed this. And if you guys want to find out more, we go to founder.com forward slash operators. Nick is our operator in residence. There's so much more coming soon, but thank you so much, Nick. This was great to have you. It's been awesome this past week, just hanging out, learning from you and building this amazing friendship.

49:19Nick Shackelford:Thank you, brother. Hey, Founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100 % free. we work so hard to go out and find the most successful founders and entrepreneurs all around the globe. So your feedback helps us grow, improve, and even bring on more incredible guests and insights. So if you have a second, please take a moment and leave us a review. It really means a lot to me and the founder team. It makes so much of a difference. Thank you again for listening, and I'll catch you on the next episode.