If You Hate Selling, Watch This | Ep 998

0:00My name is Alex Hormozi and this is Scale or Fail.

0:11Hi, how's it going? Good, amazing. Excited? Yeah. Ready to rock? Yes. All right, tell me about the business. My name is Tina, Tina Su. In the last 12 months I did$770 ,000 and$555 ,000 is profit. Amazing. 72 % profit margin. And you helped a bunch of families. Yep. Okay. So what do you sell? How do you make the dollars work? Yeah. So my core product is called HiMama. Okay. And it's a group program that helps children who have speech delay. So for example, nonverbal kids to speak their first words. Okay. While also at the same time, healing, reducing of autism symptoms as well. Okay. Got it. And the offer you sell is$2 ,500 a year?

0:52The offer. So the HiMama program is$2 ,500. Uh-huh. And it's for the year with a three-month intensive in the beginning. nine months of aftercare. Okay. So once a person is in the program, then I sell them on to the all access pass, which gets them every cohort of high mama, the three months intensive. Cool. So they can stay in the energy and they can continue to move on to the next level of their children's healing. What do you think stopping you right now? Me? Okay. So I am doing everything. I just like, I can't let go of, so I have like every single Instagram conversation this is how I currently I don't do sales calls and I'm in every piece of marketing I'm in the delivery my team handles customer service but I'm often in that as well so just I have my hands in everything and at the end of the day I just don't have time for anything so low-hanging fruits just doesn't get done yeah yeah understood okay why does solving this matter why is growing this business important versus just staying where you're you're making 500 grand a year.

1:56Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, it's, it's, it's not about the money. Um, before starting this business, I had another business and I still have that business. And I had developed that other business, you know, from nothing. Like when my son was a baby between the hours of 8 PM and 2 AM. Savage. I grew that all the way to$20 million. Amazing. And I had that business when this happened with my son. And so, um, so my son used to have autism, ADHD and epilepsy and we had done everything conventional medicine told us to do all the conventional therapies and medication and my son got worse and he was when he was nine yeah the last of his ADHD okay I'm gonna cry okay when he was nine the last of his ADHD medication stopped working he had been on seven at that time and they were ready to move him on to antipsychotics and he stopped sleeping and it was just hell yeah yeah um so you wanted to fix it and then somebody like just recommended it's like hey look into holistic change what you're eating and the environment and uh so i went on this like holistic journey to helping him and uh and in two years it's okay um in two years all of his symptoms of autism adhd and epilepsy went into remission.

3:21Awesome. That's amazing. Yeah. And then when he got better, I was like, I have to do this. Well, congratulations. You did it. Now you're helping people out. You're making money doing it. Yeah. So I had to like, I just paused for my other business and like, just went all in and just, I just go in with the attitude that I'm on year four. I just go in with like, I didn't even look at the numbers. I'm like, I don't even care. I'm willing to work for free. Yeah. Because that's how I started my first business is literally, you know. So we're going to, big exhale. You're good. There you go. You're good.

3:55This is not what I planned on saying. You're fine. Don't worry about it. You're good. I'll probably challenge you on a couple of things around the numbers and making money because I'm sensing that that will limit the amount of people that you can help because on some level, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like you may have equated maybe charging more or having upsells or even having a more standardized sales process with bad. And I don't think that that's going to be the case. And I think the more we can structure some of these things and know all of the numbers of the business, the more families are ultimately going to help.

4:29Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'll ask this question, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer. Okay. Do you think the business model as it currently stands will scale? How it is today, probably not to the scale I would want. Okay. But it can scale to my goal. Okay. So you're open to changing some things? I'm open. Yes. All right. Cool. Let's do it. Let's rock.

4:55So we're going to fix this in standard fashion. And by standard fashion, I like doing things back to front. So we'll fix offer. And then we'll fix the conversion process. And you're like, how's this back to front? Well, this is the thing you deliver, right? And then we'll go to traffic. Okay. This is kind of our three-step approach. Okay, so right now, you currently don't have like a formal pitch or webinar that you go through. You do like a three to four hour like Mondo thing. Yeah. And it's only just because I have resistance to creating webinars. Yeah, why? I just, I don't want this to be, sorry for saying this, but like bro marketing.

5:34Like I don't want people to feel sold to. People only feel sold to if it's bad. Oh. Good selling. Yeah. Feels good. I tried working on a webinar for like a few weeks and I just like couldn't. Well, think about how many things you've bought over the last month. How many did you feel sold to? That's true. Probably not many. Yeah. And every one of those purchases, somebody for sure thought about how to get you to buy. Yeah. It's just they did a good job. Yeah. All right. So just from a belief breaking perspective, I agree with you. You should not sell poorly. Yeah. So you should sell well. Yeah. Yeah.

6:03Okay. So fundamentally what's happening is you're probably doing over three to four hours covering the points that could be covered in 45 minutes. and you just don't want to be as structured about it. And if you're just structured about it, your value per second will go up for the parent. Yeah. And if your stated goal is that you want to help more parents, having the expectation that they're going to wait two, three hours before hearing about how you can help them is doing a disservice because you're losing half of them anyways. So like, I think that does them a disservice because of whatever belief that you have about selling poorly.

6:33Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I think from a, this is me actually getting into conversion, but I'll put this here, which is structured. webinar. And I think one of the things that holds a lot of people back with webinars is they think that like webinars have this very specific language pattern. It's no, it's just, it's really clear communication. It's let me tell my quick story so that I have some reason why you should listen to me. There's gonna be a big promise right before that. That's what you start with, which is like, why the hell are you here? What it like, why is it worth staying on? Right? Who am I?

7:05And then you say, this is the main thing that we're going to talk about, which is But then call it your core, you showing what you shared here was your kind of core transformation that you went through. This is the old way, new way. It's a very classic pitch. I used to do this. This didn't work. And then I discovered a friend of mine. Guru comes in, shares the secret knowledge, which was that holistic was the way. I implemented the stuff. And then I got this great outcome, both internally and externally. It was amazing. But it didn't just work for me. It worked for X, Y, and Z as well because then we're going to hit the different avatars that come up.

7:35And so the big three biggest concerns that people have about this is problem number one, problem number two, problem number three. And then you just systematically break down each of the three problems. And with each one of them, you're going to follow a what they think. They think this, right? And then you're going to say, why wrong? Why that's not true? Like I used to believe this. It's not true. What's right? And then proof. And proof can be anything. Proof can be stats. It can be stories. Anything that just proves the point. and ideally as many forms of proof as you can. Okay. Okay. So if we can just take our four hour marathon and turn it into a 45 minute more structured presentation with slides that has visuals to support because some of them are listening within the background, all these other things.

8:20If you can have it more visually stimulating, you'll get a higher conversion rate. Because right now I think you actually have an avatar that's in a ton of pain and wants to buy because you're converting like 9 % right now, which I think you could probably convert double that because you're also selling to a warm audience. and if you want to scale it, which you're saying you do, you have to sell to a cold audience. And so the ads that you're running right now are pretty much just targeting your existing people since most people are coming in already know who you are. So we can't sell to people who already know who you are.

8:46You have to sell like they don't know. And then you will sell people who don't know you. But if you sell only like you're selling to people who do know you, then no one who doesn't know you will buy. Does that make sense? You got to sell like it's cold to warm and it converts everything. You sell like it's warm to everyone. You only convert warm. Got it. Got it. From an offer perspective, do you know what your upsell percentage is from the back end of the front end? 10. So 10 % of people are taking the second offer? Yeah. Any reason you don't just do six months and have it recurring? That's a good, I've thought about not doing.

9:18Like three and three, like three months of intensive, three months of the aftercare or whatever. And so we want to make the actual conversion to aftercare before aftercare comes up. So this is also a conversion thing, but sell upsell during intensive three months. Right. And ideally, ideally you want to sell it at the halfway point and then at like the two thirds, and then you do a last chance at the end. So right now you're only selling here. You want to sell here and here as well. The more times you ask, the more likely they're going to take the purchase offer. If you sell only at the end, typically, and you're not even selling, you're like kind of mentioning it.

9:55I just mentioned it. If you actually, if you were actually just only sell, you usually get about a third. So you're getting less than that, which is if you just wait to the end, if you wait, if you go to the halfway point and the, uh, the two thirds point, you'll be able to get like half or more. Got it. Got it. I actually sell most to the people in the aftercare. So when they're done closer to the 12 months, you want to sell them when they're hot. Yeah. Cause everyone cools off over time. So you want to sell when the pain is pain is still elevated and they're, and ideally from a buying perspective, you want to sell when they're mid decision, not making a new decision.

10:24So they're still in flight and you're like, Hey, let's just keep the party going. Not okay. We've finished that thing. Now do you want to start? It's a, it's a different, it's a heavier sale. And about a third of people will take that offer, but you can get two thirds or more if you sell during the process. Got it. People are always scared of that. Cause I'm not done yet. It's like, it's okay. They've already gotten paid. I don't want to, it's not like that. It doesn't work that way. If you go run a marathon and you buy shoes and the guy's like, Hey, do you want, you know, uh, one of those tank tops to come with an iPhone band, you're probably like, well, well, I just bought, I'm not buying anything.

10:52And so, no, you're still in the, you're still in flight. Right. Now, if you finish the marathon race and they say, do you want an iPhone thing for your wrist? You're like, no, I'm, I'm actually pretty good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Okay. Um, okay. So from the offer itself, I think, I think we go$2 ,500, uh, basically biannually, hopefully you're selling this right. I think it's biannually. If it's not, I'm sure someone in the comments will correct me. Okay. So during the lunch does everyone buy through checkout they can buy through checkout but a lot of them do they uh about 30 okay yeah so a third of them do so what i want to do and this may sound like a little wild yeah is i want you to have$2 ,500 checkout price and i want to have a$3 ,000 uh one-on-one price so if i have to talk to you one-on-one it's it's$500 extra and it's just because if i were to charge hourly for me consulting with you, it would be$500 an hour.

11:46And so I'll only charge you for one hour to do that. But this is, if you're like on the fence, let me just already cover all these issues. Now, I think part of the reason that you're getting all these questions is you don't have a structured webinar. So you're not having a structured FAQ part, right? Which then this is going to go to conversion. What I want you to do is if you look at all, you already have all the DMs categorized, right? Or you have like a big data set of all the DM conversations you've had, right? I want you to take, call it every single bucket of, of FAQ. And I want you to review it at the end of the webinar.

12:19And I want you to do it is just pull the question behind you or pull it up on the screen and then answer it. Answer a live. Yeah. Okay. Because, because they have the same questions. Yeah. There's, there's no new questions. There's no new questions. Yeah. So the only reason that like you have to do this one-on-one is, and it's wasting a ton of your time is we're just not handling it. Just handle it up front. So when we have our think what they think we have our point you know intro but promise your intro which is your story origin and we have point one two and three of the webinar then you have your offer and then you have your FAQ and then how many questions as many as there are okay just think about buckets like I mean there's there's probably six flavors or eight flavors or nine whatever however many questions there are like you answer all yeah as long as they're on keep answering Okay.

13:10Okay? Because you're used to doing three or four hours. So like you just keep answering questions. I'm dead serious. Just keep answering questions. If they're still on, keep answering questions. Yeah. But answer the ones that you already know that represent the big, like answer it in, in order of greatest percentage of questions. Okay. So it's like the majority, if I only pick one question answer, it'd be this one. And that's going to be 40 % of people. And my number two most asked questions to me, this was 25 % of people. And then my number three, and then it goes in the long tail. Got it. Got it.

13:33Okay. The problem with like having the live parents come here versus my three, four hour thing is because they take a long time and it could be like, I'll invite up to eight parents. Uh-huh. That might be my own problem, but because that could drag this on like. Oh, that's because you're doing like Zoom calls, not like, and you're getting 10 % of those people to buy? 10 % that come live by, but every time. That's insane. Even outside the replay for the three, four hour thing, if someone watches it and they can truly afford it yeah they'll reach out to my in my dms and be like can i buy can i get it now yeah this is how i'm converting them yeah we just need to basically your delivery needs to become your content and your pitches need to be your pitches you're kind of like muddling the town right yeah just sell when you need to sell deliver when you need to deliver and all that delivery stuff that becomes content which i'll get to in a second we get to traffic okay okay how does this feel um there's 3 ,000 i want to have a reason for them to check out rather than having to DM you.

14:30Oh. If you want to have a call with me, it'll be$3 ,000. I just add 500 bucks because it costs my time. So, okay. So when they're checking out, they have these two options. They can either do... So you can just check out now. And if you want to talk to me, then it's$3 ,000. It's an extra 500 bucks. And that's just because it's going to take my time. Oh, extra$500. Yeah. Now, I know this because everyone's... And I would just state the fact and tell the truth. Like, I can't physically talk to everyone. And this is why you need more people on those calls. That's why it's like you're doing eight people at a time.

14:55is just a waste. Like, let's get 50 people or a hundred people on the call, have a structured webinar, answer all the questions, make this offer. More people will be willing to buy. And then it's like, if you were not sure, you're not sure and you want to talk to me then go ahead. Okay. But what if it's like too many people or is that offer there? Cause less people, people, the goal is that more people don't want to pay the extra$500. Now, if everyone is, wants to pay this, then great. We raise our prices. Cause I'm like, I don't want to do what I want. Great. Yeah. Well, but like that they're doing it now for, you're doing it for free right know.

15:24Yeah. Right. So like, let's at least get paid for it if you're going to do it. But the goal is to incentivize people to do this. Got it. And again, we're selling biannually. So automatically this whole thing is going to switch because they're going to have to opt out rather than opting in. Got it. Track? Yes. Okay. Yes. So on the conversion process, I think one of the big, uh, one of the big ones is husband slash it's mostly female buyers. Husband's not there. So I would just say, give a three day, no sweat, uh, guarantee. Okay. Which you're legally have to anyways uh so people get back out of a purchase which is that if someone changes their mind they change their mind right and so just say hey no worries buy it and if for some reason over the next three days you talk to your husband and he's like i don't want our kid to get better i want him to stay the same and get worse and like this be a problem forever if he says that no worries just let me know i'll refund you okay right so that way it's like get in and then that way um what we want to do to counteract like potential refunds which is not gonna be high anyways is you want to do your onboarding ASAP.

16:19So as soon as someone buys, do the onboarding like the next day, because then the likelihood that they get cold feet goes down. Got it. Just give them value as fast as you can. Okay. Give value as fast. Because if they buy and they get on board, the likelihood they refunds really low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, let's just pull it forward. Got it. Got it. Like they have three days to do it, but you can deliver ASAP. Yeah. Yeah. So on my live events currently, I'll have something like if you buy while you're on this call, there's a bonus. So should I take that out or? No, I mean, you can do have a price goes up and there's a bonus.

16:48So this is cheaper and you get more. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Now, uh, you have this $150 a month thing for like one-on-one with your, it's not with me. Yeah. It's my membership. Your team. Yeah. With my coaching team. So if you're going to do that, you need to make it like five times as expensive or get rid of it. Oh, it's not priced right. Okay. Yeah. Cause you have one to many and then it's like for twice the price you get one-on-one basically. Right. So it should be like five times the price. So I think like$8 ,000,$8 ,000,$10 ,000 is what it would be if I wanted to have people have the money. I promise.

17:21They do. And that money will allow you to scale it. It just, like, the math doesn't math. Yeah. But it's not with me. No, I know. It's with my team. I know. It's not about that. But it's like support. It's buying behavior. It's buying behavior. So either include your base level support, which is what you have with that one-on-one. Yeah. And then if they want one-on-one, they have to pay for the one-on-one price. Many people, everybody needs one-on-one, everything. But it just doesn't mean that everyone can afford it. It's not worth it. You have a responsibility to the business. And the business has a responsibility to the customers.

17:55But your responsibility is to make sure the business survives and grows. And in order for the business to survive and grow, it has to take care of the customer. So it's a circle. Does that make sense? Yeah. On the delivery part, so this is on delivery a little bit. You have this telegram, right? that you use cohorts in telegram you can are you familiar with ai okay so what i would do is i'd vibe code um an agent that searches the whole telegram and looks for past responses that are similar to the question and then suggests it to you or your team and then you can check or exit and then it sends it and that way you're going to dramatically increase the leverage that you have for each year delivery people.

18:37So have the agent send it automatically? No, so basically you'll vibe code a dashboard. Yeah. They don't even have to be in Telegram. Yeah. Like your team. Yeah. They have a dashboard. And then people ask their questions because it's convenient for them. But you make it convenient for your team to have them all in one place where it already has suggested answers and they just reply or edit. So you can go way faster. Oh, got it. Okay. I can do that. Yeah. Okay. How frequently are you running webinars? Once every, every time there's a launch. Okay. So that is. So this is what I would consider doing.

19:06Once a week, hold a webinar for all the people who DM you and say, hey, I'm doing a live thing with other parents that way you won't feel alone. Come attend. And then you can just do the structured webinar once a week and then mop up everyone that's been in your DMs and just send reminders to them to show up. That way you don't have to go into all these long conversations because you're having the same conversation a hundred times in a row. Okay? Yeah. And then you still do your launches. That's going to be to pay. But your weekly webinar can be organic. Okay. That feel okay? Only for the people that are DMing me or should I message the wait list too?

19:37I would just do, for me, I'd rather just have all the people who are DMing you. I'd use my wait list for the launches. Okay. Because it'd be like more razzle-dazzle. We're trying to account for like what happens in between. So big picture, we're changing from our three to four hour marathon to a structured webinar. Okay. We're going to follow this structure. We can bring up the people live to do the proof for each of the points if you want to. And that's only for your launches. We'll still use the same webinar. You don't have to have the live people. The upsell timing, we're going to shift. right?

20:03Because we won't even need to, cause we're going to, we're going to be biannually here anyways. So this might not even be an issue. You don't think it matters whether it's six months or 12 months. Conversely safe. That I know. Okay. Because I thought it was like, oh, you get a year. It might be. Let me say differently. Do you want to have your tooth pulled out in five minutes or five hours? If you can fix your, fix my kid in half the time, fix my kid in half the time. Yeah. The biannual is still happening on a six month basis anyway. so that's automatic i still want to have a conversion like push and reminder because i don't want to be with people without them knowing that's not the goal yeah but we want to have like it's like we want to get the legal right to do it here but we want to have the psychological right from here got it is that track got it okay uh we're doing this pricing so that we get more people to not dm you and buy immediately so it'll be a cheaper price and a bonus if they buy on and if they buy from you one-on-one and you're like you don't get the bonus and it costs more now if you're on the call you can be like hey i'm not supposed to do this but i'll give you the the bonus if they ask for it.

20:57Okay. We're going to vibe code delivery so you get way more leverage from your team. That's all good. Okay. And we're going to include this little no sweat onto the pitch and we're going to add our FAQs in. That's all conversion stuff. Okay. Once we have all this, now we have an offer that's already renewing. We're renewing at the right point. We have a structured conversion process. Delivery got more leverage. We have our FAQs covered and we have guarantees so we can deal with the spouse issue. Now we just need more traffic. Okay. So this is what I want to do. So how many, so you have like 200 plus testimonials that you've already captured, which is great.

21:30There's like 200. I haven't even posted. Yeah. Yeah. So you have post those, um, how much, uh, Q and a is there in your delivery? A lot. Okay. And they're the same questions every cohort. That's great. So, um, you're familiar with Dave Ramsey. Yes. Yes. He, people get on and they say, I should probably spend less than I'm, than I'm spending and I I should save more money. And he says, that's a great idea. You have to do it for 45 years. And so even though it's the same question for you, the audience will not perceive it as the same question. And so I want you to take those Q &As and you can probably have an AI editor just cut it down.

22:07Worst case, you can have an offshore editor do it because it's a very repeatable cutting process. And I'd love you. How many Q &As would you say you do per week? And when I say, I don't mean sessions, I mean actual questions that you're answering. Actual questions like on the live calls. Yeah. Probably between 30 to 50. Okay. Yeah. So to me, that means you get 30 to 50 posts a week just by capturing and editing. So it doesn't matter. Like what we do in the program is like being shown out. Doesn't matter. No, because it's going to be so it's going to be bite sized. You also have questions that are coming in from Telegram, right?

22:44And all those questions. Yes. So the ones that get like upvoted or have a lot of like engagement around it, I would do green screen answers. What does that mean? So you pull the question behind you. Okay. And you just talk about the question. Okay. You've probably seen reaction videos. Okay. You just react to the question. Okay. This is a question, you know, like, so, and you can have an AI voice, read it, and then you respond, or you can read it and respond. Either way, it's fun. Okay. That's right. Yeah. Just don't start with a lot of people have been asking me this question. That's a terrible book.

23:11Okay. Don't start with it. Okay. Just read the question. Okay. Okay. When you go on these other platforms, if Instagram is where you're used to converting everyone, push people from those platforms to Instagram. So if you do YouTube shorts, your description says DM me on Instagram. Okay. If people are on TikTok, have your bio say DM me on Instagram. That way we can just funnel everything to one conversion point. Got it. Got it. And then that pushes people to the webinar. Got it. Okay. Now, we should probably post the 200 testimonials. But I really want to edit all of them. Well, for all of this, you need to get editing.

23:46Yeah. You have the profit. Yeah. You have the profit to do it, and that's not going to cost a lot of money. Now, on the ad side, these content become ads. Because if you're capturing 30 to 40 posts plus your green screens, we're talking three, four, five posts a day. That's per platform. So all of a sudden, you're at like 20, 30 posts a day per platform. You're going to be all over the place. Then take the winners from there and run them as ads to your thing. To the webinar. To your launch. Yeah. To the wait list or the webinar? Well, you're used to the launches I think we do with the ads because you're used to doing that.