What Leila Hormozi And I Accomplished In Q1 And HOW We Did It | Ep 860

0:00What's going everyone? Welcome back to a new episode joint style between the game and build with Layla. so this is a collab because we're influencers we're collabing did you hesitate when you said the name of my podcast I feel like you were really you didn't even know did you I wasn't sure if it was scale oh my god no I know it's Bill I said the right word I said the right word this is so fucked so we thought we'd give you guys a 2025 25, one sixth of the way through the year update, which is kind of insane when you think about it. Like we're almost done the first quarter. How fast that moved.

0:48I mean, yeah. Layla, would you like to kick us off? Yeah, Alex. If you had one word to describe the first sixth of the year, what word would you use? Is dick punch one word? I was trying to think of mine, so I was giving myself time by asking you. Yeah, I think that's my word. Yeah, I would say eating glass. Yeah. Eating glass. I don't think we have the staring into the abyss part. You know, for those of you who don't know, that's an Elon Musk quote that Laila and I both like. He said entrepreneurship is a lot like staring into the abyss and eating glass. Staring into the abyss because you don't know if your company is going to make it and you're always, you know, facing existential threats.

1:31and then eating glass because the way entrepreneurship works is that you are a funnel for all the problems that people either could not solve on their own or did not want to solve on their own. And usually it's both of those things, the ones that they don't know how and don't want to solve. And so basically your every single day is just only solving the worst things on an unending basis. And the number of problems that go wrong is just astounding. As an entrepreneur, like how can we even function with the amount of things that are going wrong at any given point but for some reason uh we keep doing it and so here we are but anyways that's uh that's what lela was referencing so it's definitely been an eating glass period yeah it's interesting because i think i was thinking about it because i think a lot of people obviously go through this phase and it happens no matter how big your business is and i would actually argue that the bigger business the more glass you eat because the problems are bigger.

2:28More surface area of glass to break. Yeah, there's more glass to break and sharper. But I was thinking about why, like what keeps you going throughout it. And I actually think, I mean, I don't know if you would agree with this, but I was thinking for myself is that I am good at it. I'm good at eating glass. Like you gain the skill, you know how to make the decisions. It's just that, I think what it is, is that you get better at making the decisions and making them quickly and knowing what to do. It's just that the execution is just as painful every time. And I was just thinking about that earlier today when I was thinking, you know, okay, my media has suffered this quarter because I have not been putting my attention there at all.

3:12And I honestly don't put that much attention in general, but it's just that when I do, I like it to be high quality media. And I felt like I've been so distracted that it's just been just shit. and you know as i was looking at okay making more media versus solving the problems of this week then i was like well why is it that i actually like solving the problems more and i think it's because i'm like well i'm good at it and i know what to do i know how to solve them you're better at solving problems than you are making content well yeah for sure but i think it's just the the difference is just it doesn't get any easier any time it's like people think when i fire somebody oh it probably hurts less it probably feels not as hard uh when we have a lawsuit oh it probably hurts less.

3:52It probably feels not as hard, but it's like, I just have found that the decisions get easier and it goes faster because you make decisions faster. So you get out of pain faster, but it's not any less painful. Well, I'll tell you what I've been thinking about. Pulling up your Twitter. Yeah. That's where I draw my thoughts. All right. So this, this was a, a letter, um, from Bezos to everyone is where the shareholder letter, shareholder letter. And this is just an excerpt. And I like, I keep coming back to this, because it's since I've read it, because it was so good. So I'll just read it. And then I'll kind of give you my two cents on it.

4:33So he says, differentiation is survival, and the universe wants you to be typical. This is my last inner shareholder as letter of CEO, as the CEO of Amazon. And I have one last thing of utmost importance I feel compelled to teach. I hope all Amazonians take it to heart. Here is a passage from Richard Dawkins' extraordinary book, The Blind Watchmaker. It's about basic fact of biology. Starving, staving off death is a thing that you have to work at. Left to itself, and that is what it is when it dies. The body tends to revert to a state of equilibrium with its environment. If you measure some quantity, such as the temperature, the acidity, the water content, or the electrical potential in a living body, you will typically find that it is markedly different from the corresponding measure in the surroundings.

5:19Our bodies, for instance, are usually hotter than our surroundings, and in cold climates, they have to work hard to maintain that differential. When we die, the work stops, the temperature differential starts to disappear, and we end up the same temperature as our surroundings. Not all animals work so hard to avoid coming into equilibrium with their surrounding temperatures, but all animals do some comparable work. For instance, in a dry county, animals and plants work to maintain the fluid content of their cells, work against the natural tendency for water to flow from them into the dry outside world.

5:51If they fail, they die. More generally, if living things didn't work actively to prevent it, they would eventually merge into their surroundings and cease to exist as autonomous beings. That is what happens when they die. Now it's Bezos.

6:33and says to her, can't you just be normal? They both smile and laugh. And of course, the deep truth is that her distinctiveness is something he loves about her. But at the same time, it's also true that things would often be easier, aka take less energy, if we were a little more normal. This phenomenon happens at all scale levels. Democracies are not normal. Tyranny is the historical norm. If we stop doing all the continuous hard work that it is to maintain our distinctiveness in that regard, we will quickly come into equilibrium with tyranny. We all know that distinctiveness, aka originality, is valuable.

7:04We are all taught to, quote, be yourself. What I'm really asking you to do is to embrace and be realistic about how much energy it takes to maintain that distinctiveness. The world wants you to be typical, and a thousand ways it pulls at you. Don't let it happen. You have to pay a price for your distinctiveness, and it's worth it. The fairytale version of be yourself is that all the pain stops as soon as you allow your distinctiveness to shine. That version is misleading. Being yourself is worth it, but don't expect it to be easy or free. You'll have to put energy into it continuously. The world will always try to make Amazon more typical, to bring us into equilibrium with our environment.

7:38It will take continuous effort, but we can and we must be better than that. I just like love that. I just thought it was so good. And Laila and I had this little exchange, I don't know, a while back, not that long ago. But I've been, I mean, I guess I get the same amount of hate anybody does. but I don't know maybe I read it that day or whatever it was and I was just like why do I even bother you know what I mean like why do I even we're we've already cursed on this podcast so whatever so I was like why do I even give a shit like I don't need to do this um and I was like maybe I'll just do what some of these other people do and just like just be vanilla you know just like not state things that are controversial and there's a difference between like what I would consider faux controversy and like true controversy, right?

8:24Like, to me, faux controversy is like, you know, you're complaining about results you didn't get from the work you didn't do, right? Like, that's like faux controversial. Like, no one really disagrees with that, right? It's like, it sounds a bit spicy, but like, it's fundamentally, no one's really going to be like, yeah, you should, you know, get things for doing nothing, right? But there's other things that I believe that are actually controversial, that there's a huge amount of people that disagree with it and go get up in arms when I talk about it. And so I was telling this to Layla and she just kind of like paused and she was like, never dilute yourself.

9:05And it's kind of exactly what I think I needed to hear in the moment. And then, you know, reading this, this letter from Bezos was very reaffirming along the same lines. and so I wrote this as my uh quick response which Layla's like of course she's gonna say something else because Alex loves talking uh so I wrote this um you are either a thermometer or a thermostat most people are thermometers what right quote that was from Jim Collins book that I talked I said all the time I've never even heard I literally had it pulled up. I don't listen. Ridiculous. You say I don't listen. Ridiculous. So this is obviously me not listening.

9:46Well, let me just read the part that I wrote. I said, most people are thermometers. They change based on temperature outside of the room. They use almost no energy to operate. They're completely passive. Thermostats, on the other hand, lead to systems that expend huge energy to change the temperature of the room. They're entirely active. But not only does it require huge effort and energy to reach the ideal temperature, it takes even more energy to maintain that temperature. Every hour of every day must persist. hold the line literally to create a different environment from the outside world. And when I feel beat down, I ask myself, am I a thermometer or a thermostat?

10:15Will I hold the line or simply melt into the background? Then I try to do what the thermostat would do. I do what I was afraid to do. I say what I think when I know it might hurt. I play when I know I might lose, make the bet when I know it might not pay off, trust when I know I might get stabbed in the back. So much energy, so much effort, but the only alternative is to melt into nothing. So we hold the line. So the quote actually originates from Martin Luther King Jr. which actually originates from soccer. Actually, I would like to just respond with, yes, I completely agree. That has been top of mind for both of us.

10:47I actually wrote something that I gave a speech to the team last week. Did you? It did, but you're not on those meetings, so you don't know. Oh. Which I'll read here. So you know his original thought. There you go. So you can hear it as well. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. Sincere candor is one of our core values for a reason. It's not some fluffy leadership buzzword that we thought sounded cool. It's a non-negotiable standard that keeps us sharp, honest, and growing at the speed that we need to win. Here's what it means. We tell the truth. We tell it fast. We do it with the intent to make things better.

11:13We don't sugarcoat shit. We don't dance around the issue. No, let's circle back. I'll let them know next week. Bullshit nonsense when we know something needs to be said. If something's awk, we address it. If something's great, we acknowledge it. If something could be better, we push for it. This applies across the board. Leaders, if you're holding back feedback from your team because it's, quote, uncomfortable, you're failing. Say what needs to be said clearly and constructively. Teammates, if you're whispering about problems instead of addressing them directly, you're part of the problem. Speak up.

11:41This is a company of adults, not high schoolers. Everyone, if you can't take feedback without getting defensive, you're capping your own potential. Growth comes from friction. You have to embrace it. What sincere candor isn't? Being a fucking asshole, tearing people down, just speaking to hear yourself talk. It's not passive aggressive comments, vague feedback, or waiting until it's too late to address an issue. It's about being honest and having an impact. It's about being clear rather than comfortable. And it's about driving results rather than putting your ego in front. Our clients and those who look up to us to lead the way come before politics, egos, and your appearance to the team.

12:17If you want to move fast, improve constantly, and be surrounded by people who make you better, then sincere candor is the standard. And if that makes you uncomfortable, you're in the wrong room. Stamps. But you weren't there to hear that. I was not there to hear that, but I was there in spirit. So I will respond in the same way, which is that I agree. And I think it's funny that Layla and I both independently wrote those things. Because I mean, I'll just, you know, speak candidly. I think one of the, you know, Layla and I have plenty of our own flaws, but like, I think we've usually been pretty in sync with each other in terms of like what we're thinking what we're feeling what's going on in the business and i think that's the season that we kind of feel like we're in right now so we feel like a lot of people are trying to lower the bar right lower the standard um within the company lower the standard uh obviously they're trying to lower the standard right but like for me with media like people like just comments that that i get on a continuous basis for like just believing what i believe um Um, and so we've both been like feeling that, that pressure.

13:21I think what it is, I was thinking about it is that with increased success becomes an increased frequency of opposition. So it's not that it ever wasn't there before, but it's that the frequency increases. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I was talking to the team about it and I was super upfront. I had the new hire orientation. I said, listen, we will not accommodate you. You will mold into the culture that we already have because this culture works and this is why we're winning. And so if you don't like the culture that I'm about to explain, then this is not the company for you because it's very potent and it's not what a lot of people want.

13:55And I was really like heated that day. I don't know why. I think it's because, you know, with all the new people coming in and then what I see is that the teammates who do emulate the culture, they question. They're like, am I to this? Am I to that? And we should always take good ideas from new people, but to try and assimilate into like corporate jargon, bullshit, you know, passive aggressive comment, just some of the stuff that like, you know, people have old habits. The way I explain culture is always, it exists on a spectrum. So nobody comes in a 10 out of 10 culture fit. And any day given, it's not like I'm all ever a 10 out of 10 culture fit, or you're a 10 out of 10 culture fit.

14:34It's like, to what degree do we exemplify the culture that day? and I just said, I was like, we can't accommodate people. Like you cannot be nice. You have to be kind. And you know, it's funny as I was interviewing someone, he was in his final round and he said, he's like, what's the thing that like, what pisses you off the most about the company? And I was like, when people are nice, not kind. And they think that, and then other people think that they're a great leader, they're a great person because they're acting fucking nice. And it's actually just really mean because you're gonna end up fucking up your team.

15:08you're gonna end up fucking up the project or whatever it is because you're trying to save face i was like that pisses me off and he was like every single person said the same thing he's like the one thing that i heard on the last three interviews was kind not nice i was like that's really cool our whole team saying it very congruent we're the opposite of suicidal empathy what's that it's where you have so much empathy that you love the person that's hurting you oh understood and you don't try to stop them because you don't want to disrupt them we are not that way no and i think you know it translates into you know the media side as well because i think in general especially for you um i just think back to the jordan peterson podcast where he translates the story of um was it god kate and abel kate and abel yeah and it's basically like the representation of i just thought this was like a good interpretation of it of somebody who represents the ideal and then somebody who rather than trying to be like the ideal and being inspired by it tries to tear down the ideal and i just think that's what most people do like anytime you face opposition when you represent an ideal, you just trigger all these people who feel like it's not possible for them.

16:32And you piss them off because then they think of all the reasons why they can't become that ideal. And then they have to say false things about you or make up stories about you, which then goes back to people thinking they're special. You know, I think one of the things that Robert Greene talks about that I loved in that book, The Laws of Human Nature, was, I don't remember what the law was called. It's about specialness. Like we all think we're unique. We all think our problems are unique. And we all think that when we don't like somebody because they represent an ideal, we think that they are uniquely bad most of the time.

17:06And that because of all these bad things, that must be why they accomplished something. Or it must be why. Like there's no way they could be these good things. And I think that was really interesting because I just think it's really, I just think it's true. I see it everywhere. A lot of people have that worldview. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this has been, I would say this has just been like what's been kind of the theme for us right now. It's been what's top of mind. It's like staying true to us despite increased pressure to kind of bend the knee to conform. And we do have a very potent culture. Yeah, I think for me it's been within the company.

17:44For you it's been externally. You know, I was thinking about, I was like, I think I faced the most opposition externally when I first started making content. which is interesting but that was tough well it's funny because i had um i had two different founders over the last week who visited the headquarters um and it was during the weekend and you know one of them was like i think you know we were hanging out talking about whatever and then um i was like i'm gonna do this hop into this uh compliance training i was like you want to join? And he was like, yeah, sure. And it was like three o 'clock on a Saturday and the whole sales team was there.

18:24And, and I was just like walking them through like, you know, things to say things you can't say, things like that. And then just, you know, drilling it with them. And after, you know, we left, you know, got, got out of the training, he was like, how, like, how did you get your culture so that people work weekends? And I thought about it and I had the same thing. I had the same question asked for me from a different founder the next week as well. And I was like, I think we work weekends and the team sees us work weekends. And so they work weekends. Yeah. Like I've never asked anybody to work weekend.

19:03Have you? Well, well, okay. I've reached out to, I reach out to people on weekends, especially if there's problems and things going on. And there's obviously departments that work weekends because that is the nature of the, that piece of the business. but I've never been like, I need you to work a Saturday and a Sunday just because I want you here. So hear me out. So I'll say something a bit controversial in the spirit of being sincerely candorous. If we hear I need work-life balance on a job interview, we're probably not going to hire the person. And it's not because, you know, we think there's anything inherently wrong with that.

19:39If you want work-life balance, I completely respect that. It's because we're looking for people who in their spare time like doing the thing that they work on. And so for them, they're not looking for a vacation or a break away from it because they're currently love doing that thing. And whatever role they're in doesn't give them the opportunity to fully flex all the skills they have. So I'll give you an example. So there's a guy on our marketing team who like, we're actually right now, literally right now, he's at a summit internationally that he paid for with his own money, uh, and bought his own tickets and all of that stuff to go see some new kind of cutting edge thing or whatever.

20:16Right. And you don't like, so for him, if I reach out on a Saturday, it's, he doesn't, it's not, doesn't feel like work. He's like, this is what he wants to do anyways. And, um, whenever I'm like, Hey, have you seen so-and-so's thing? He's like, Oh yeah, here's all the cool stuff that they're doing, whatever it is. And it's, it's, it's, that is what we're looking for, where someone's inherent interest happens to be the work that they do. Because then that team, and just think about it purely from a competitive standpoint, if you have two companies, one company built of people who desire work-life balance, right?

20:53And in their quote off time are not thinking about work at all, fine. And then you have another team that's thinking about quote work all the time because it's what they're interested in. the other team's going to win. And so I saw Darmesh, who's the founder of HubSpot, post this really cool little visual. And it was just a Venn diagram. So two circles with a tiny, tiny little bit of slice of overlap. And one side said work-life balance. And the other side said breakthrough startup. And he said, both of these are fine. And then he pointed the arrow to the middle of the overlap. He said, this is not.

21:28He said, because you're just not going to do it. He said, no matter how much talent you have, greatness requires toil. Yeah. No, I mean, the thing is, is like we're very upfront on the interviews, for example. Like we are scaling very quickly. We're growing very fast. It requires people who want to put discretionary effort towards work. And whenever people hate on me for that, I'm like, I only need a couple hundred. Like you think that there's not a couple hundred people on this earth who don't need to have like an extraordinary amount of work-life balance right now like there's a lot of people who love this shit and so i don't know i just one thing i've never understood is that i agree that people should have whatever they want especially like you know you have people who they're they'd have three kids and they're all young and they're raising them or they're taking care of their parents so they've got like good good go work somewhere where you have a work-life balance i just don't understand why you have to hate on a place that says hey up front we're looking for people who don't need all of that and understand this requires working in quote off hours and like we all love work here we are competitively great and i've just never understood why that's an issue you know reminds me of um i don't know if you remember he was uh one of our software teammates from gym launch and he didn't show up to work for three days in a row and so uh and then we said like what the hell it was the whole thing he did it again we let him go and then he wrote us a glass door view and was like, I felt like I was a prisoner, right?

22:57I felt like I couldn't leave. And I was like, what in the world is going on here? And it's just, you know what I really think it is? I really think that anyone who hates on a place that is upfront about their expectations, treats people well, invests in their team, you know, takes care of their team while they're working their asses off. And you still treat that company like they're doing something wrong. i think you're a victim and i think that's all it is and i think victims blame and victims look at everybody as the enemy and i don't fuck with that i've i recently read elon's um biography by isaac walterson and there's a lot of really good little anecdotes in there that you kind of see the level of determination that it takes to build something really great um you know among them you know elon showing up at sunday at two o 'clock in the morning and being like why aren't there more people working as like one level of extreme.

23:53But the other part was talking about like many Tesla engineers, you know, would leave Tesla and be like, you know, burned out and they'd go to some other company and then they would come back to Tesla like nine months later, under the conclusion that they would rather be burned out than bored. And I think it's just like, we are trying to build a company for doers, for people who want to take ownership, take action, make an impact, actually see their work get put out. And it, it just, it's not, it's, you know, I love this quote, but it's like, it's a dangerous place to work. You know, that's what we're trying to create that for.

24:32It's, it's dangerous place to work, but you're also going to be among like other fucking predators, people who are good at what they do. Yeah. And I think there's a misconception, which I will say, which is like, people hear us talk like that. And then they think, oh, I bet you everybody's not friendly. They're not kind. We have the kindest people in this company. I think that it's like, I always have this, like, be a kind killer. It's like kind killer. That's good. Yeah. Like be a kind killer. Like, I mean, that's what I tell myself. It's like, I want to be super kind, but also be a fucking killer and I can get after it and I can go hunt.

25:07And it's like, that's the culture that we have. And I just think that, you know, it's the same thing as people who we bring onto the team. And then when they come in, they're like, I didn't believe it was actually going to be like this yeah we get that feedback a ton i and i think that that's you know someone asked me he's like what's the most common feedback you get after someone's been in for a few weeks and i was like literally that it's like they didn't believe this was actually going to be what the culture was and that it's actually not bullshit and i just think that in a world of everyone posing and faking there's just so few that are real they all say like oh my culture this and that they don't have a fucking culture they have like an accidental chicken noodle soup.

25:45And so... I don't know what that means. I don't know. I'm thinking of like a broth with like a bunch of random shit in it. Like it's just like it's not real. Just a diluted broth. Diluted broth. You have diluted broth. You have water with a little bit of brown in it. I have chili. Yeah, we got chunky chili, baby. Pineapple chicken chili. That's right. Pineapple and some jalapeno. Yeah, that's what we got. I do think that's a misconception. people just think like it's kind of like us you know they see us and they're probably like ah they're like robots and they like don't have fun and don't have a life and there's don't tell them otherwise oh my god it's just like i actually think that it's hard for people to understand that companies and people can contradict it's like you can be hard but soft you can be fast and slow you can be outgoing but also very thoughtful that's just top of mind i think it's holding line i think that the other thing would be just in general

26:49well i've got a cool story about this so i had uh i had uh an interview uh the other day with uh an executive assistant candidate the one interview and yeah my one interview my one interview of the month and so anyways i i got i got on and i was like tell me a controversial belief that you have oh and uh obviously struggled to give me a controversial belief because she was afraid of whatever her answer would be but the reality is um i said well don't worry about it i'll go first and then i just said a bunch of controversial beliefs that i have and you did that to me on like our third date you were like what's the worst thing you've ever done and i was like i don't even think i've ever done anything i was like well i'll give you 10 you were like i'll give you my top three yeah i was like oh well i was but my i'll explain the thing about it where I was like, especially an executive assistant, somebody who's working super close all the time.

27:44I was like, she's going to find out what my beliefs about the world are. And if she doesn't like them, she might as well know now and we can both avoid the pain. And so it's kind of weird because you have to go against like social niceties and politeness and political correctness to be like, this is what I think. And if you think that's a problem, then you probably shouldn't be here. Or just like go work somewhere where that's that you do have that. Because the flip side is, if someone else is like, fuck yeah, that's exactly what I believe, and I just have never been around people who've been willing to say it, then I think they're going to be more bought in.