Cosimo Gherardini, Director of Operations at Sant Ambroeus

0:00Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Gentleman's Journal podcast. I'm Joe Bulmore, the editor of Gentleman's Journal, and I'm here with Cosimo Gerardini, the director of operations and a Sant 'Ambrose family member, to talk about the wonderful restaurant chain Sant 'Ambrose, their plans for the future, and why kindness is always the answer. Enjoy!

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1:07So go to Gentleman'sJournal.com and use POD20, that's P-O-D-20, for 20 % off the usual price of a Clubhouse membership. cosimo cosimo that's right trying to say it as authentically italian as possible perfectly cosimo named after cosimo medici that's exactly right what do we know pressure on my shoulders it does yeah what do we know about him he was florentine prince florentine comes you know one of the i think the first banker families in the world if you know the most influential at the time and a family that sustained art, a family that sustained the arts and a very influential family globally.

1:49I'm trying to now make a nice segue into your work. I have nothing. I don't relate to that family whatsoever. I have no connection to them except for the fact that I'm from Florence originally. Oh, really? Yeah, my father. Okay, okay. But you're both stalwarts, we'll try this, of Italian culture, I suppose, around the world. That we can say. That we can say. That we can say. So you are part of SA Group, Sant 'Ambrose, as most of us on the street would know it. An incredible chain of restaurants, which I've been to many times in New York in particular, but founded actually 90 years ago, something I didn't really compute, in Milan.

2:24That's right. In 1936 in Milan. Yeah. By the Cataneo family. Actually, by two pastry chefs in 1936. Then the Cataneo family took over. and for the longest time in Milan it was it was it was a meeting point for the most influential people of the city for you know celebrities and and industrials alike and so 90 years ago is when you know San Ambrose was born in the city of Milan yeah yeah is there some sort of Milanese DNA that stays in all the the different sites even now do you think well Milan as a city I think we have to start by explaining what Milan represents globally. And I think Milan represents quality without questions being asked.

3:15It represents a sense of refineness and precision and not so much showmanship. Okay. And I think that in the brand today and in the restaurants today, you see that through the through the you know pursuit of excellence through the pursuit of excellence through products through hospitality and consistency milan i think for me personally represents consistency yeah yeah my my image of milan when i think of milan in my head i see a man on a bike with a navy blazer a well-cut white shirt gray flannel trousers and the bike's quite old it's not too flashy that's right and he's sort of skidding over the cobbles of milan that's right and i think that's the man i want you have a pretty good picture in your mind yeah yeah that's right it is understated and chic um and you live there now i live there now i've been there for two years yeah i've been there for two years prior to that i was in switzerland studying and uh i grew up in new york so milan for me has been an incredible experience it's been two years of of living in a in a city that is so enriched in culture and tradition and very happy to have done it yeah absolutely yeah and i want to get to new york in a bit but for anyone who has never been inside of san ambrose how would you describe what it what it's about what it's what it means to you really san ambrose i think is more than just a restaurant it's it's a way of living it represents a way of living and you know having said that that comes with a lot of different responsibilities you know it comes with the fact that people come frequently and that is because of the consistency that it offers through the coffee through the greeting um you know it's it's the sense of community that people feel the sense of belonging that people feel when they when they come to san ambrose uh so you know it is truly more than a restaurant and it has been ingrained into people's quotidian way of living yeah you know yeah um whether it's for dining, whether it's for a coffee or a brioche, whatever it may be.

5:26What are the kind of iconic dishes, I suppose, or things that have lasted throughout the years? There's plenty, but I think the first ones that come to people's mind are the vitello tonnato, the cotoletta, the bolognese that is on our menu that is incredible. But there's plenty. I mean, there's plenty of iconic dishes, the carciofi with parmigiano. as an appetizer. There's plenty of dishes that make you think of San Ambrose. Right, okay, amazing. Have you been? I've been in New York. Which ones have I been to? I've been to the one, I guess it's kind of Nolita, Soho-ish? Yeah, in Soho, in La Fajette.

6:05That one. And then where's the other one? In the village? In the West Village, yeah. That's right. I've been to those. And then we have another one on the Upper East Side as well. And the Upper East Side, that was the first New York one, was it? Or nearby there? That's right. That's right. The Pauli family brought San Ambrose to New York in 82 and you know with the intention of expanding the brand in the states yeah and that was the first location opened on the Upper East Side and it's interesting because San Ambrose in New York being that it's so divided into neighborhoods San Ambrose has a different feeling and vibe that it gives off whether it's on the Upper East Side or Soho and West Village each one has its own identity.

6:47Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting. Absolutely. And so what about you? What's your journey into the company? So I grew up in hospitality. I grew up, you know, from the age of 15. Anytime I had a moment off in the summer, I'd be working. I would either be in the kitchens. I would be, you know, we have a location in Southampton. I would be there all summer working as a busser, as a waiter. I remember one of the first jobs I did in Southampton was serving the gelato. Okay. We have a gelato counter in Southampton. Right. That's a difficult thing to get a good scoop of ice cream. Very difficult, actually.

7:22What's the technique? Well, you have to warm the scooper first with some warm water. Warm water. And then you can scoop it. It's actually quite an important technique to master. Right. But you can't contaminate that scoop then. No. You've got to have multiple scoops. Absolutely. Contamination is a very important topic in this business. It's very important. But, you know, I grew up in the business. I grew up working, you know, throughout the restaurants. We also have another restaurant in the group called Casa Lever. Oh, yeah. Amazing space, that. It's beautiful. I've never been, but I've seen photos kind of mid-century, but also kind of spacey sometimes.

7:57That's right. Yeah, that's right. Really cool. And, you know, working in the kitchens there, it was incredible and it continues to be incredible to work around such talented people, passionate people. And I think even before, you know, entering the group at 15 16 years old whatever it was i grew up in a family that has a deep deep appreciation for food okay and you know raw material and ingredients so i think that is really where my passion and interest originates from do you have any really strong formative kind of food memories any dishes that you can remember from when you were five or six or i think more than dishes i have this memory that comes to mind now in uh so i grew up in new york but every summer i would go to tuscany yeah uh where my grandfather my grandparents uh have a place and i remember they had this marble table in the kitchen and my grandfather would invite the fishermen to come oh wow yeah i think i don't remember you know in the mornings and this fisherman would bring in this huge tuna that he caught that morning and my grandfather would inspect it and and speak to him about it and and you know just observing that appreciation for a tuna that was just dropped onto the table yeah and him inspecting that tuna was uh i think that was definitely formative okay and if you liked it he'd buy it and then you'd like to yeah we would eat it for you know for lunch or dinner for the next whatever it was yeah a week or a couple days and and so you know just that the fact that he had that curiosity to yeah to see to observe that tuna to ask the fisherman about it to have a conversation with him it was um it was special yeah yeah that's one of the best things about italy many great things obviously but if you go to the markets and just sort of watch people the time they inspected an apple it's like it's 30 seconds per app yeah absolutely it's amazing it's beautiful yeah it's beautiful i mean there's no rush right there's no rush and there's uh there's a deep sense of you know detail also in that right i mean is this apple perfect is this the one i want does it look right yeah you know and uh it's an art that is fading of course so are you a good cook yourself do you cook food i wouldn't say so i wouldn't say i think i can i'm a good you know observer but i'm definitely not a good cook unfortunately i haven't picked up that skill.

10:27But we'll see. Maybe things can change. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you can pick some stuff up. I'm sure I can. Okay. Do you have a go-to something which you can do in a binge? If a girl's coming around your house, you've got to cook for her. So what I would always do before a date or something was ask the chef to maybe help me come up with an idea. Okay, wow. You're outsourcing that. That's pretty good. Of course, I had to. I had to speak to professionals. I couldn't just go in it without any preparation. So I would tend to just ask and see. And they'd come up with something. Well, they would help me understand what I could blend up.

11:09It was nothing that I would have liked to propose, but it's all right. It was intention that mattered. Yeah, definitely. That's always the way. Whenever I'm speaking to people in hospitality or even around it, I mean it's such a fascinating industry because you probably can't think of a more complex or difficult industry and it's getting harder and harder especially in a city like London and yet I think all of us are so drawn to it when you think about what you would like to do in your retirement I mean the dream for an Englishman is maybe to own a pub in the country or something like that and yet yeah as I said it's almost impossible what do you how do you sort of bridge that gap between the difficulty of it and the romance of it well first of all the hospitality industry is a people business yeah so let's start with the preface that if you're not a people person yeah it's going to be quite difficult to you know to enjoy it i'm not even gonna say have success but enjoy it yeah um it's a people business both on the client side but also on the on the on the corporate side on the staffing side you know you're dealing with emotions on both sides.

12:18So you have to be a spiritual leader. And I think that comes first. And secondly, you really have to be passionate and believe in the product that you're offering to the market. Because if you're going to be gimmicky about it, if you're going to be half-assed about it, you know, it's, I think the market will perceive that. So I think what I'm trying to say is you have to really believe in, in what you're proposing to the market and and that society needs what you have to give. You can't go in with kind of, I guess, cynicism or thinking, right, this is going to make me a quick buck. No. You'll get found out soon enough.

12:55Pretty quickly. Yeah. Pretty quickly. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting when you look at a restaurant that's been around in various forms for 90 years, and then you see today the way things are, and some restaurants open with great fanfare in London, and three months, six months later, are completely gone. Yeah. And it's astonishing. And often I think it's that cynicism. They might open with like a gimmicky menu item that gets queues out the doors, but once you've had it and taken a photo, you're not coming back. Unfortunately, it's the case for a lot of people. And I say unfortunately because, you know, that restaurant still required a certain amount of, you know, emotional investment, time, capital investment.

13:33So it is always unfortunate when a restaurant goes out of business. But, and, you know, sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid it. You know, fundamentally, I think what matters is exactly what you know we're talking about now is is truly believing that the market needs and wants what you have to give yeah you know and having a deep belief in what you're proposing definitely so and to be in it for the long game maybe big time yeah big time yeah are there any things on the menu now that was on the menu 90 years ago you know i'm not sure i'm not sure unfortunately i wasn't around 90 years ago but what i can tell you is that in milan there's this you know beneath the restaurant we have this bakery yeah this that that goes the length of the restaurant and you know that's been around for 90 years so i can't tell you if the recipes were the same but i can tell you the space was the same and there's definitely an energy in that bakery that you can feel uh from 90 years ago yeah yeah that energy i'm so interested in that idea of energy and atmosphere because it's so intangible really yeah and the the rooms that conjure it can be i think about something like martino's on sloane square have you been there yeah amazing yeah it's one of my favorite restaurants actually i was walking by it last night and i stopped to look inside it's beautiful it's beautiful it's beautiful but it's more than just being beautiful you can have a beautiful room that's chilly and cold it's warm the acoustics are just right everything is being considered and yet on top of that there's still another element of magic which they didn't know about and it's caught fire and it's amazing and they deserve everything but what what is going on there how how can you conjure atmosphere in a room you know people people people it's uh there's a lot of different facets to making a room feel and have the right energy i think it comes down to the following i think lighting yeah the lighting needs to be warm it needs to feel you know inviting i think it comes down to the staff yeah and how they move it needs to feel natural it needs to feel like they you know they know what they're doing and they want to you know they flow around the ride i think it also comes down to the greeting that those first 10 seconds when you walk into a restaurant define your experience okay the hello if the tone is enthusiastic or not if if if it's genuine if it's a genuine welcome or if it's not that greeting that moment is so important and that will dictate in most cases your experience for the rest of the for the rest of the time you're in the restaurant so and are you guys actively do you actually sort of encourage a certain mood in those 10 seconds do you just kind of rehearse it with your staff almost you know rehearsing seems unnatural yeah You know, it seems unauthentic.

16:22I think what we try to aim for is authenticity and genuinely having people that are happy to greet. Yeah. To greet clients when they walk in. And again, as I said before, it's a human business. So everyone has their off days and nobody expects you to be perfect and happy all the time. But, you know, when you walk into a San Ambrose, the expectation should be, I feel at home. I feel welcome. I feel like I belong. and fundamentally that's what we what we train for every day yeah yeah i'm interested how you said it's about how how the team moves almost yeah body language and the pace they're moving at in the room so important really body language is is you perceive it right away you know it's it's you know how a waiter walks around the room if he feels if you if he's rushing or if it feels natural um you know your experience should be should be soothing it should be you know it should be an experience where you don't feel rushed and that comes with there's so many small things that as as consumers and as clients we don't we don't actively see but we feel and that comes from body language that comes from lighting that comes from the volume of the of the music how it's being diluted throughout the room there's so many different factors to consider and it works a lot with our subconscious yeah so yeah you know and what are you like then as a diner if you are sort of conscious of these things because you you are professionally how are you when you're walking into a place like martino's are you aware that you're kind of constantly scanning is your radar more more alert well i mean yeah when i walk into any restaurant my radar is always alert yeah but you know obviously it's not to be critical but i'm always i'm always aware yeah i'm always aware of what's you know the details and and all the things that we we you know we've been mentioning for sure um but i think more out of curiosity and and sometimes even admiration you know and appreciation for for things that people do in their own restaurants and um you know again there's always something to learn yeah there's always something to learn and it's so it's pretty much your job to be eating out yeah absolutely yeah as well as eating you know at san ambrose yeah of course almost quotidian almost on a quotidian basis so you'll never you yeah i can see why you don't cook much yeah that's exactly right yeah that's exactly a good excuse there yeah that's right um how you've been in london for how many days i've been here for two days okay two days love love this city so where have you eaten so far so i went to a restaurant yesterday for lunch called Dorian.

19:06Yeah. In Notting Hill. And it was great. Yeah, it's very good. The T-bone was fantastic. Yeah. What was the atmosphere like there? The staff can be very good sometimes. Yeah, I mean, it was great. Yeah. It was great. And for dinner, I went to my favorite sushi spot in London called Aikida. Yeah. Fantastic. It was great sushi. So it was the dining atmosphere and the restaurants, the choices you have in London are incredible. Yeah. Incredible. It is in a really good moment, I think. And there's a sense of it, which would be interesting to get your take on, of things going back to something a little bit more old school.

19:43There was a time, I think, when so much felt kind of algorithmic, by which I mean that all the recommendations you were getting were the same. And then everything was booked digitally. You didn't speak to anyone. You'd go on Resi or Seven Rooms, which are great platforms, but sort of killed it a bit. And now I'm noticing a lot of restauranteurs, especially in owner-led places, you know they encourage you to call up or whatsapp someone um they'll remember you if you've been last week the week before it feels kind of 20th century in a way it feels pre-internet in a really nice way hello and just a quick reminder about the gentleman's journal clubhouse it's our membership package which unlocks a whole host of benefits across the world of gentleman's journal including two magazine issues per year full access to all our payable content membership invites to exclusive events and a weekly newsletter direct to your inbox.

20:33Enter pod20 at thegentlemansjournal.com to get 20 % off the usual price for a Clubhouse membership. I think that's a conscious approach. Yeah. I think that's a conscious decision, given that, you know, we are so addicted to these. Yeah. And, you know, the consumer is becoming, especially the luxury consumer, is becoming more and more intelligent and demanding of that human connection. So I think that's where luxury is headed. You know, that human connection that you can have in hotels, in restaurants, but in general in hospitality. Yeah, yeah. And it often only works in places that are still run at a size that isn't out of control.

21:20Like chains have to, at some point, sort of go to something which loses a bit of character. because they've got to keep things consistent. So you've got to stay at a real sweet spot. And how many sites has San Ambrose gone? We have... We're at 14 at the moment. That seems still within that sweet spot. But, you know, the intention is, even if it's at 70, that you have the same energy and consistency throughout and same soul. You know, that is really the intention. So we actually just opened in Paris last month. and sorry in uh early december yeah and that was a great opening it was uh you know long time coming yeah paris is a wonderful city and uh you know even there there's there's challenges every time you open a new restaurant but of course what matters is that you have a team that you know carries soul that carries passion and that's exactly what that restaurant has yeah And how important are the other buildings which you open in?

22:26How much do you sort of take your cues from the, I guess, the architecture, but also, yeah, which corner you're on, which way you're facing the light and in the morning in certain places? Location is very important. Location, location, location. But, you know, if we start from the interior, the architect that we work with is also very important because as we were saying, the interior of a restaurant is, you know, should feel welcoming. Every restaurant concept should aim to respect their own identity. But for us, we work with, for example, in Milan and Paris, we worked with an architect called Fabrizio Casidaghi.

23:01And he did an incredible job in making the atmosphere feel welcoming, refined, understated, and welcoming. And elegance at the same time. Yeah, definitely. Do you have different architects for most of the sites then? We vary. It varies on the project. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. And then what about the sort of the softer side to it? Going back to what I was saying before, there's ways to launch a restaurant with big PR splashes and flashes, which has its place, of course. And then there are ways to do it much more subtly where you involve the local neighborhood or you set up a WhatsApp group where you have a sort of a committee almost of friendly people who you know live nearby who might want to be involved where do you fall on that we fall more in the community building yeah side you know every as we were saying before every restaurant every san ambrose is located in uh in a distinct neighborhood and the goal is to really cater to everyone of course but to create a home away from home whether it's in the west village whether it's in soho whether it's in milan And, you know, the goal is to create a community wherever we are and a sense of belonging for people that walk in the door.

24:20Yeah. Yeah. That's our main focus. Definitely. I mean, there's definitely a sense of camaraderie when you walk into the New York spots. And I'm sure it's true everywhere else. People seem to know each other. People might wave across the table. That's right. It's a really special chemistry. It's a great observation. That's the byproduct of, you know, what I just mentioned. And it's people get to know each other, whether it's in San Ambrose, whether it's in the restaurant or the dining room they meet for the first time, or, you know, whether it's, you know, they have a previous relationship. But, you know, you tend to see friends, you tend to see acquaintances.

24:52And that's another, you know, beautiful side to this business. Yeah. Uniting people. Definitely. And then for your own sort of journey into this, journey is always quite a funny word to use. But how have you sort of, I guess, educated yourself over the years? have you had mentors you've looked up to have you yeah what's been your sort of your path i've been well from a from a from an educational side i studied in ecolo telia in uh in switzerland which is a hospitality university uh so that was educational side but from the practical side i've been very lucky to have many mentors that have guided me and taught me so much about the industry and about myself as well from my uncle to my mother uh ali reza who's the creative director of san ambrose um yakubo falai who's the chief culinary officer of the company you know there's so much passion within all these people that i just mentioned and it's it would be actually quite difficult not to not to you know take something from them so all the conversations I've I've had with these people and more over the years have been extremely formative and and I'm extremely grateful for them yeah of course are there any bits of advice or kind of little turning point moments when you something clicked for you uh I think it's been you know while being on the field you know seeing you know as I mentioned working with with with these people you know working with Ali Reza and seeing, you know, how he moves across the room and how he makes people feel welcome, you know, being beside Jacopo and the passion he has when he's in, you know, in the kitchen and with guests.

26:43It's special. It's extremely special and not something to discount whatsoever. Yeah. To be surrounded by people with so much passion. but I think what I was actually on the phone with Ali the other night and we were talking about it and he he pulls that he pulled out the phrase that kindness is always the answer okay I don't remember what you know how that originated or why we're talking about it but it's truth and it doesn't just only apply to hospitality I think it applies to every different every every facet of life so yeah kindness is always the answer yeah it's pretty good yeah it stuck with me we spoke on sunday night today's what today's uh wednesday okay and it stuck with me so yeah yeah of course yeah are you uh an extrovert do you think you someone who's pretty confident or i think so i think i i think i like being with people i say i think because i have you know i have swings right yeah as we all do um i love being around people yeah uh my business requires me to be around people and i'm extremely grateful for it there's also times where i prefer to be more introverted definitely um but the the the satisfaction that one feels from seeing someone smile from seeing someone feel good feel like they belong i think that is what you know i'm happy to be an extrovert if that's what that means yeah so but i i do enjoy both definitely you know having a nice division yeah yeah i think we're all sort of combinations of all of them absolutely someone told me that an extrovert this is probably quite a crude definition is someone who gets energy from other people an introvert can be someone who other people they may like but they find them tiring in some ways or that that interaction tiring it's interesting i i tend to adapt to the room wherever i may be i tend to adapt to the situation if if if i need to be an extrovert i'll and extroverted if i need to be more introverted i'll be more introverted yeah um i think it's about adapting and being malleable in in every in every situation i think that's you know truly emotional intelligence is being malleable yeah so it's not one or the other no definitely definitely um so you've what are the sort of the biggest changes you've seen in the last few years since you've been really hands-on in the business what's changed in the industry but also in that number as a company?

29:04Well, in the industry, in the luxury industry specifically, the consumer is becoming much more aware, much more intelligent, I think, overall. Not that they weren't prior, but, you know, the demands have been changing. And I think that is especially related to what is my dollar going to get me? And there's, you know, justifying how each dollar is being spent is is is definitely an approach that luxury consumers are starting to have more and more whether it's in fashion hospitality and another you know trend that we've all noticed is the fact that especially my generation we're much more health conscious you know so the drinking has uh you know has declined we're much more aware of what we put media and what we see and that we should be more strict with ourselves so that's also a very important trend that i've noticed and that we have to cater to yeah you know i don't think it's going to change anytime soon yeah definitely and a movement towards comfort's not the right word but something like that whereas i think maybe 15 years ago people wanted at the higher end of things quite avant-garde experiences they wanted michelin stars they wanted things that were slightly out of the box or small that's right yeah i think it's yeah i was speaking about this the other day i think luxury really has become uh the freedom of choice yeah comfort and the freedom of choice these two things rather than you know these splendor experiences of you know of extravagance it's become comfort again luxury can be subdivided between many different divisions but in our space it's truly become about comfort and consistency.

30:57Definitely. And luxury, that's an interesting analogy because you, as San Ambrose, there's been quite a long history of sort of collaborations and working with style brands and luxury houses, I guess. That's right. How's that come about and why is that kind of important? I mean, San Ambrose, you know, it started, these collaborations, they started with Ali Reza, who's our creative director. And they originated from those relationships, those friendly relationships between the brands, between the people behind the brands, and what felt organic. So, you know, whether it was doing the shoes with, I remember with Puma or Superga, or the recent collaboration we did with the Attico, which was actually a collaboration we did when we opened in Milan a couple years ago.

31:50What is the Attico? That naming's about... It's a brand. it's a run by two women yes i listened to a podcast they're very cool very cool they they did a playlist and talked through it on some podcast there you go yeah it was brilliant they're doing a great job yeah um so the collaborations are you know they're partnerships that feel organic for the brand and whether it's an apparel or or whatever it may be um porcelain we have a we did a line with ginori amazing so yeah it's it varies based on uh on industry but overall it's what feels organic yeah of course and new york has been such an important part of the story and such an important thing for you as well clearly i mean yeah you you were born and lived there yeah um what what is it you think about new york that that is so unique especially for dining and where do you feel new york is right now on its dining scene new york is a special place i still consider it the best city in the world just because of the the fact of how dynamic it is you know you you you see a little bit of everything and growing up there is a privilege especially because you're exposed to so much and you know on the dining scene it's you have every different culture representing what they grew up with every different nationality bringing to market what they grew up with so you know not to say that other cities don't have that but new york you you really it's embedded within the city it's embedded within the culture of the city to to have access to all those different cuisines and nationalities and and stories so truly you know i i do believe that it's one of the great cities of the world exactly for that it's a melting pot yeah it really is really and it's it's kind of geographical because i think about london and it's sort of everything bleeds into each other but it's sort of a collection of of villages which have a distinct personality and so if you're in notting hill for an evening and your friend is in chelsea it feels like a barrier to get there or your friend's central you're like oh let's just stay here and what you which is fine but what you lose is serendipity and the thing about new york is is is the serendipitousness and the fact that because of that people always seem way more than londoners up for doing stuff on a tuesday night or randomly or you'll be in a karaoke bar at 3am and you'll have probably the best someone will bring out some noodles they'll probably be the best that day that doesn't happen in London if that happens in London it's premeditated so I think yeah there's that sense of chance yeah New York yeah exactly you have that sense of chance in New York and that's what it offers that's why people are so attracted to the city you know even if you haven't grown up there you always hear I need to go to New York I need to go to New York I need to have an experience in New York in my 20s you know just because it's so unpredictable predictable and uh and you and you learn about yourself a lot by living there so it's tough tough tough place to grow up tough place to live whereabouts were you going out i was not in the tough yeah that's right on the free side but not a tough place to grow up but regardless yeah you know the pace of the city is is is notable i left when i was 15 i went to study in canada for two years and uh yeah i you know at the time i was i was young but i definitely already felt the pressure of the city the pace of the city and uh you know i think only now i feel ready to go back and confront it okay so it took uh yeah it took a while yeah you needed some time away yeah that's right okay yeah that's right yeah it's i think it's similar with london kids friends i now have who grew up in new york or london they definitely got a tiny little bit more street smarts they got a little bit of a twinkle in their eye yeah i mean that's that's what that's what these cities do to you yeah yeah and again i i'm i'm extremely grateful i've grown up in new york yeah for that whatever it is if that street's smarter uh that exposure to to different cultures to different ways of thinking i wouldn't have wanted to grow up in any other place so yeah i had a um last time i was there a few months ago i had a i was on my own and i had a stumbled into this place had a Sichuan pepper thing i didn't know what it was yeah which i don't think i would have had in london to the same extent and it was yeah it was genuinely like an experience because it's yeah yeah i felt like i was in i thought it was like i was gonna pass out yeah it was like my brain was fizzing it's a special place it's a special place i i miss it and i'm looking forward to going back i'm um i'm moving back to the states in a few months yeah moving over to miami as i said before yeah of course which is a totally different city from new york's you know i think pace wise similar uh demographic quite different yeah climate climate very different um but still you know i'm happy to be back in the states and and and you know going back to a place of uh of hustle yeah not to say the man is not but it's uh you know you feel a good sense of energy yeah being over there so well let's talk about miami and the plans there for a minute because miami is a place that has changed more than probably any major city maybe in the western world i think in the last five years partially that's pandemic reasons partially yeah it's been a huge amount of investment it's it it is a remarkable place i've only ever been once in about 2022 i think um we're doing an interview with dave gruttman dave gruttman i know it who is the king of miami sure pretty much sure so that was an education in itself um and he took me around lots of very very interesting places um why miami for you guys and whereabouts are you opening up we're opening south of fifth okay i have no idea what that is south beach okay the south point of south beach right and i think it's it's been a it's been a while coming yeah you know we're on the east coast we're in new york we're in the hamptons and and miami is uh it's a very interesting city you know and we have a location in palm beach yeah and you know miami makes sense it makes sense to have a location it makes sense to create another sense of community and a home for people that come through the city and you know it's just a city that makes sense for for San Ambrose yeah yeah you know what about London then this is the question is it's tricky London's tricky you know it's it's a conversation that makes sense it's just it's just a matter of finding the right location it's a matter of you know London's one side street one street changes everything you know and uh it's about being you know feeling like it's inevitable rather than opportunistic okay and uh and finding that right space that right that can host us are you actively looking we are yeah interesting yeah we are we're we're on the search what would be a dream location you probably can't say but what roughneck of the woods we're talking not far from here uh you know london is it's a big city you know there's there's neighborhoods that as we said they represent different things you know notting hill has its own soul as does chelsea as does marlebone you know there's yeah so those three then no no i mean there's there's a potential for you know and many others yeah of course mayfair as well as its own charm to it right and so you know we're we're trying to understand what the best move is okay so well i'll keep an eye out for you i'll be great yeah that'd be great there's um yeah there's some amazing character buildings as well in london which have just come available i have a think london's beautiful i was walking through it last night and uh i was just observing even where these big name restaurants are the buildings i was looking at them they're they're gorgeous yeah incredible and it's such an eclectic mix of architectural styles that sort of yeah paris for all its beauty and it is way more consistently beautiful yeah is is sort of fairly one note in lots of ways london house is it's special yeah special i was uh last night i was really got home i was i was uh taking it back yeah it's beautiful that's good to hear yeah it can be very easy as a londoner to be down on london you need to step out of your you need to step out of your routine to appreciate things otherwise you know you're going to be blinded to to what you see uh every day so sometimes you need to step out to step back in and appreciate it so what other cities around the world then do you think maybe down the line you could see a san ambrose popping up and well we're opening in la uh later this year great which is very exciting where's that in beverly hills okay and we're opening in dallas next year really yeah which is also a very exciting project wow um and you know those are the and Miami.

40:39So these three projects are the main focus for us now. Again, when you're opening a restaurant, it's a huge emotional investment also, right? You need to make sure that the soul is carried out in each of these locations. So if you're doing too much at once, you're risking not being able to ensure that that opening phase is done correctly. So it's crucial that you know the plate isn't too full and that things are done as they should be and when you're opening a new place in a somewhere like dallas which is so different to new york do you are there people you bring over with you to kind of make sure that's the vionairs absolutely there's a there's a strong team of people that come um and that is exactly what i was referring to yeah because there's only you know a certain amount of people and you know you can't spread out you can't spread these people out you know everywhere they can't be in two places at once so that's exactly what i was referring to it's the people uh that you know teach the the the new entries and the new staff uh what we represent and what we'd like to represent so that is the key component here it's the people that come and and execute but also teach the brand values and the operations and and how we do things overall yeah so yeah yeah and so what's next for you then both i want to know both about we've heard about san ambrose but i guess for you in the in the whole setup yeah i mean i uh i'm still young i'm 24 yeah and uh i've been in milan for two years it's been an incredible experience and you know i've learned so much miami's you know next up for me and i'm really looking forward to it it's it's it's a whole new dynamic it's a whole new you know place for me and i'm going to have to adapt and learn and i'm extremely curious but you know i'm for now this is this is my journey you know and it's it's it's representing the brand it's it's being a custodian to to its values to to its operational standards and and and making sure that we execute and we can we continue to you know make people feel at home so that's that's that's that for me for now yeah and it's it's not too bad i can't complain good what was the phrase about kindness again kindness is always the answer that's uh he told me that on the phone on sunday night and for some reason i've been it's just i'm gonna try and drop that into three conversations today but kindness still with the answer always always always i'm having a dispute exactly but i wonder if there are any that's a great motto for you and for everyone really are there any kind of internal sant ambrose mantras or mottas you will have which we tend to focus also a lot on the as i said before the welcoming moment yeah you know that greeting it's so important and we have that conversation quite often you know that that that will dictate your experience for for the most part nine out of ten times if you have a smile if you have that that genuine how are you uh or welcome home welcome back you get called by name you know yeah it's a huge huge detail and we that that's a conversation we have a lot making sure that you know as soon as you step in you know what you're stepping into and and you feel welcomed yeah crucial crucial absolutely cosmo thank you so much.

44:12Thank you. Yeah, we'll see you in Miami or somewhere else. Absolutely. In London, hopefully. Hopefully, hopefully soon. Okay, I'm on the hunt. All right. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Before you go, just a final reminder about the Clubhouse membership, our way to unlock a whole host of benefits across the world of Gentleman's Journal, including two magazine issues delivered to your door each year, full access to all our paywall content, members only invites to exclusive events, and a weekly newsletter delivered into your inbox every weekend. Go to thegentlemansjournal.com and enter code POD20 for 20 % off the usual price of a Clubhouse membership.

44:47That's POD20, P-O-D-20 at thegentlemansjournal.com.