Thom Whiddett and Luke Sweeney, founders of Thom Sweeney

14:58Thom Whiddett:growing up and Frank Sinatra features prominently here yeah old school with Chalabat you know those guys just don't make him like that anymore do they no so he's he's with Luke's father-in-law yeah who we named

15:11Luke Sweeney:the hospitality side of the business after yeah

15:13Thom Whiddett:that's Sol on the right and Frank on the left they're doing a sound check at a resort my father-in-law built called Sun City in South Africa and yeah he had a 10 ,000 seater 1 ,000 10 ,000 seater sorry stadium that he brought like Frank there Queen Gleiser Minnelli yeah this goes on but yeah they become great mates after that and I'm sure they had a good time I'm sure there's some good stories yeah so I want to talk about the hospitality stuff but I'm also interested in how you grow from that really organic, small group of interesting people to something like this. How does that happen over time?

15:53Thom Whiddett:And what were the kind of the steps you needed to take? I mean, opening this townhouse was surely a big moment. It was. Yeah, it was organic, wasn't it? It wasn't a, again, it was very, the focus was very simple and it was just to make beautiful clothes for really good guys. And it was as simple as that. and I think it just sort of grew over time, you know, and, you know, you get a bit of luck along the way as well and timing's right, you know, but there was a few big moments. I think opening New York was a huge moment for us. We did that with no investors or, you know, we were the first British tailors to open a store in New York.

16:29Thom Whiddett:So that was like probably a big moment. It seemed crazy at the time, wasn't it? Yeah, it was nuts.

16:32Luke Sweeney:10, 11 years ago? Yeah. But it's been over 19 years, so it's quite a lot of building blocks. Small things adding up. Yeah, it's not like one click of the thing and you suddenly hear.

16:44Thom Whiddett:In any business, it's not easy. Whatever you're doing, I think if you're disciplined and you're passionate about what you do, you're going to have ups and downs for sure, but ultimately it comes good. And you'll have a business if you are willing to make the sacrifice and be passionate about what you do. I think it's simple stuff. People overcomplicate it. Really? Yeah, great service

17:08Luke Sweeney:and great products. I mean, if you have those, you should get there. Ultimately, there's not many brands that have done well with a bad product. No, no. You kind of have to have that behind you.

17:18Thom Whiddett:But there is something distinct about Tom Sweeney. The product's obviously amazing. The service is great. There's a sort of, there is an essence to it, which, like all the great brands, it's quite hard to sum up, but it does feel different and distinct. I wonder if you guys ever had to sit down and actively say, right, Tom Sweeney is this, these three things, these three words, I don't know what they would be. Have you ever sort of tried to distill it down into like a headline? We have, haven't we? We've always found it very difficult, if I'm honest. Because it's kind of, it's a natural feeling.

17:47Thom Whiddett:I think anyone in business would say that, you know. We've never really sat out and said, this is us, or, you know, I think it's a bit weird. But there's a few, again, in a very simple term, like we preach it to all the guys that were with us. You know, we've got a fabulous team here in all our stores. and we always just say to them PPS and it's product, people and service. They're like the three key components to form any business, any successful business. And I think the elements of music and smell, that's maybe where Tom and I's tastes will come into the stores or aesthetic and DNA. But the PPS thing for me is like the real, that's it.

18:29Thom Whiddett:And you could have a coffee house down the road, but if you're offering product people and service, you're going to have a great business. Yeah. I think that's ways to do it.

18:39Luke Sweeney:Yeah, and I think with the product, we have slowly evolved, starting as bespoke tailors, how the cut is. We didn't want to be too stiff or too military, too savoureux. So we were quite open-minded and loved certain aspects of Italian tailoring. We'd bring that into the cut so it felt more natural to wear, more comfortable. It moves with you so it's not the garment that you feel stiff in. you know you feel elegant and relaxed but we still want it to have a great sort of british silhouette with the high arm hole and the shape yeah um so that kind of aesthetic built and i guess it's something that for us we think is flattering on on kind of anyone it makes you look the best best version of yourself quite masculine um and with service it's that hospitality element isn't it it's like when you walk into the store you need to feel at home you offer the drink and in hospitality there's you know the members clubs do it great but a lot of retail you kind of go in it you don't get that it's just yeah so you're lucky to buy the product kind of thing

19:39Thom Whiddett:you know you're not really getting looked after there is there is something intimidating about fashion but about tailoring i think in particular yeah and i didn't know where to start and i went into charles tier it which was actually a really great you know welcoming place yeah but the idea of walking into a Savile Row Taylor. Just to take that step in. Yeah, I don't know. If I'd gone to Geeves and Orcs at 23 or something, I think I would have been trembling. Yeah. How do you guys make sure that it's not off-putting, it's not scary, it is welcoming? Yeah, just being warm and kind. I think simple stuff again.

20:12Thom Whiddett:It's old school shopkeeping, I think, just taking care of guys, making sure they're looked after, they're getting attention. And we've always installed that in our company and our team members. Yeah, yeah.

20:25Luke Sweeney:And then when you do come back, it's remembering them, it's what they liked. You know, they're kind of making it an effortless journey for them. Not like it's brand new again. You're trying to explain what you like or what your size is. Everyone develops that relationship with the customer.

20:40Thom Whiddett:I remember once when I was young, I saved up to get a pair of Gucci loafers. I went into Gucci here, yeah. Remember the gold buckle over the top? And I went in there. They were 200 quid. Wow, seems cheap now. Yeah. It was expensive then. I mean, I was like 17 years old, you know, a long time ago. And I remember going in and they were just so mean to me, you know. I was like, I just never want our custody. It stuck me even to today. I talk about it a lot. What do they say? Just mean, you know. Just cold. They can see I was a bit rough around the edges maybe and I shouldn't be there. But, and I always say to the guys here, you know, like I don't care if someone's buying a tie or a hundred bespoke suits, you treat them well, you know.

21:20Thom Whiddett:Of course. You're kind to them and you make them feel special. So we're not the only guys making beautiful clothes, you know, but how we make our customers feel is just so important. Did you buy the loafers? I did, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

21:32Luke Sweeney:That's the thing. You're so drawn to that product at the time. It's an iconic product.

21:36Thom Whiddett:But I think that's where people slip, you know, because ultimately I bought them anyway, so who cares? But I think, again, making people feel good is very important, you know. and that kind of I think that's what sets us apart from other other houses or companies

21:51Luke Sweeney:yeah we want people to keep the pieces for years so every time you pull it out you might remember that experience or you're more inclined to tell someone about it and bring them in after so it just means it means more and I said loafers

22:04Thom Whiddett:they're cool would you still wear Gucci loafers now? I reckon they've come back a bit haven't they even the other shoemakers are now doing that form that take on that yeah it's iconic sadly but it's a shame they're rude yeah I don't think they care that much yeah they've done alright I'm interested in your own your own taste and how those have evolved when I think of you I can imagine that scene in what is it American Gigolo or actually American Psycho when Richard Gere or Christian Bale opens up I'll clarify which one we'll go with Richard Gere we'll go with Richard Gere in that film. Is it American Jigler?

22:45Thom Whiddett:It is. Yeah. Amani did the whole wardrobe. It's very cool. And he's laying out his pieces on the bed. Beautiful immaculate wardrobes. Have you guys got suits in every... How many suits do you guys have? This is such a basic question. it's a good question. Actually, in the old days, I'd go nuts. Yeah. Personally, I'd make Utah on, but now I've edited it down to just stuff I love wearing, you know, so I've still got a lot of coats, blazers, trousers. I mean, we're talking 100 suits each maybe

23:15Luke Sweeney:certainly made 100 suits over the years a few of yourselves yeah and more and you know with us we do try it out before we sell a fabric yeah you've got to we do try it out there's a few that you lob out quite quickly you know that you don't make sure who do they go to

23:31Thom Whiddett:friends family friends yeah I've got two brothers yeah same here

23:35Luke Sweeney:so they've got a lot of suits good hand-me-downs the thing is you kind of keep over time you're keeping more of it so you've got like that backdrop of the wardrobe but then even with the dinner suit I mean you might have one but then there's a different event you want to do a velvet or double breasted or midnight blue

23:52Thom Whiddett:or you want to do black this time I can imagine it's very addictive and where do you keep them do you have do you have massive wardrobes yeah I've got that's the only thing when we were building our house the only thing I really got involved with really is my side of the wardrobe yeah I've got a nice wardrobe yeah and what about moths do you ever have problems with moths no If I've got to touch wood, yeah, that'd be a disaster. God, that is, yeah, that's the biggest fear. It'd be expensive.

24:14Luke Sweeney:Yeah, it'd be very expensive. Sort of keep them bagged up in your winter stuff. Yeah. Separate now and then you change it over. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:21Thom Whiddett:Hello, and just a quick reminder about the Gentleman's Journal Clubhouse. It's our membership package which unlocks a whole host of benefits across the world of Gentleman's Journal, including two magazine issues per year, full access to all our pay-a-walled content, membership invites to exclusive events and a weekly newsletter direct to your inbox. Enter pod20 at thegentlemansjournal.com to get 20 % off the usual price for a Clubhouse membership. Are there any outrageous things you've made which you've instantly thought that's a mistake? For myself? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. A few bad check jackets.

24:56Thom Whiddett:I was trying to be dandy or whatever. It wasn't really me. Yeah, I made a few. But, you know, we're pretty good at selecting cloth, thank God. It's better that we make the mistake rather than selling it to someone else. And we still, even to this day, I pride myself. I try and do two or three appointments a day and talk to the customers. And I love it. And I've talked people out of cloth based on the fact that I've made it for myself. And the minute you say that genuinely, they're like, okay, leave it. So it's an important exercise to go through. Expensive, but it's important. But tailoring is such an interesting thing because it's way more than just buying a suit or a jacket or anything.

25:36Thom Whiddett:Definitely, yeah. You guys are sort of therapists and psychologists, and you've also got to be tastemakers and curators and, as you say, advise them, nudge them here and there, but also keep it true to them somehow. Because the temptation when you go in and you're getting anything bespoke is you think, right, I'm going to go in and get Navy. And then you think, oh, maybe that hot pink, actually, this will be the thing that really is my thing. And then obviously, then you hopefully get talked back around to the Navy that looks good with you. But it's such an interesting process. I'm wondering how you guys are when you're dealing with customers, how you sort of manage those different parts.

26:10Luke Sweeney:Certainly got to get into their mentality and get to know them first before you can really advise what works for them. Because certain people are more bolder fabric or checkers, it could look really cool and some people it might not work. So first thing is really, especially for new guys, and it's getting to know them where they're wearing these pieces too that they're going to make. What they do for a living. all the environments they're going to be in and then you can start sort of imagining what fabrics, what kinds are going to work for them.

26:39Thom Whiddett:Has anyone ever come with a very specific or strange request or a use case or some incredibly niche event that they really need something for? Yeah. Lots of times. Yeah, it's too many to...

26:52Luke Sweeney:I don't think there was a specific event but a guy probably 15 years ago who was based out in Asia wanted like a jumpsuit oh the pinstripe and a very heavy yeah chalk stripe flannel

27:06Thom Whiddett:a jumpsuit

27:07Luke Sweeney:yes all in one wow tip up very specific you know this is the reference what was that for

27:14Thom Whiddett:I guess just yeah everyday you feel like that everyday just thought

27:17Luke Sweeney:just be quite a cool piece to make fair enough so you went for it yeah yeah and he was a real character you know in terms of character you know got this idea let's do it let's fully commit yeah the moral of the story

27:30Thom Whiddett:is with a customer who's like you've got to be comfortable and that can be a jumpsuit or yeah um comfortable in your own skin i mean yeah not just as a garment but you've got to be you can't if you're an extrovert and you want to wear something very outlandish your character's got to fit that yeah garment you know um if you're not it just doesn't work you know okay so and you've got to help them know themselves a little bit yeah yeah yeah you know through experience and storytelling, we can really help them and advise them, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think like the minute you start talking about value and wearing it in 10, 15 years time and not regretting it, you start getting into that conversation.

28:09They normally start classic

28:12Thom Whiddett:and you can always build into that, you know, and you've got like a mad event that you need to get something made for, you can do it. But yeah, I think building a wardrobe is really important. There's a few key pieces as you go through the wardrobe that you need to get nailed before you go into the jumpsuit.

28:25Luke Sweeney:Yeah. Yeah. Like weirdly, that's his first piece.

28:29Thom Whiddett:Okay, good. Start strong. Living with the classic after. Yeah. And what about your own tastes? Where do you guys go outside of these walls when you need to discover new things? Is there anything recently you've seen that's been really, really cool? Any other brands or places or, I don't know, artists you love? Yeah. I mean, movies for me, I get inspired a lot. And a lot of the time it's going back in time. Yeah, definitely. Like the American Gigolo. Yeah. Yeah. Untouchables, I was watching the other day. The old Kevin Costas thing. I was a mate. What were they? Big, big 20s? Yeah, quite high waist trouser, good sort of leather jackets, you know.

29:05Thom Whiddett:I think O'Malley did that as well, to be honest. But yeah, movies I get inspired by. It's amazing how often movies get tailoring wrong, get tailoring really badly. Yeah. I was actually watching, I don't know why we were watching this last night, The Dark Knight Rises. I think we were on a Nolan thing. Is that the Tom Hardy one? No, that's the one with the Heath Ledger as the show. Oh, yeah. Is that the one? Yeah.

29:27Luke Sweeney:The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight. No, it's just The Dark Knight.

29:29Thom Whiddett:Anyway, the tailoring was the people who were meant to... It was a great film. The people who were meant to be like the rich people, Bruce Wayne's friends. It was sometimes really terrible, like massive gaps between... And you think, is that kind of deliberate or is that just an oversight in the costume department? I don't have a question. I don't know, yeah. Usually it's very thought through. Yeah, I did notice that. I said that to my wife and she was a bit like, oh, just watch. Yeah, just stop having a test.

29:54Luke Sweeney:pausing it that's why that's wrong um often when you travel as well you sort of pick up see our trips to italy or when we go through to all the workshops can even be like a an older guy that runs the knitwear manufacturer and suddenly he's got a really cool way of doing like a polo with a different trouser and you think yeah that's that's interesting you know

30:15Thom Whiddett:wouldn't have thought of that but i always make my shirts with pockets with my mologram and that That was a guy in a factory, actually, in Italy. It was. He had a very cool guy. Couldn't speak a word of English, but he had a Bengal striped Oxford shirt buttoned down in a pocket with his monograph. That's cool. I've done it ever since. Really? Can I see it? Has that got rounded bottom? Yeah, nice. Very cool. Maybe it's the Essex coming out of me with a monogram. Nice. I think, yeah. It's quite old school. Yeah. I was in Tuscan and I saw a guy. And I love it when they put the monograms just there.

30:47Thom Whiddett:Yeah, yeah. But he had it on everything. and polo shirts yeah amazing yeah he was in his like 60s so just everything looked good on him if you look around you know you're not on your phone you can get inspired by so much you know yeah and people get bogged down on their you know phones now you know but i i don't anything inspires me is kind of yeah i'm seeing you know right there's the thing about phones right now and there's a sort of an instagram aesthetic that seems to be coming through in menswear a lot i can't really describe it it's basically everyone wants to dress like jacob alordi which is like a short cropped top of some sort, quite wide cut, high-waisted jeans, and like a baseball trucker cap.

31:25Thom Whiddett:Yeah, a bit off. A bit off and a bit like, I don't know, slightly grungy, but it looks great on him. Yeah. And you see a lot of walking around here, you see, or maybe a bit north of here, you see lots of sort of youngish men trying to rock that look. And it seems like Instagram should open our taste, but it seems sometimes to be flattering them. Yeah. And everyone's after the same thing. Yeah. How do you guys keep it fresh? Not looking on Instagram. No, we do. It's probably good advice.

31:53Luke Sweeney:It's just the algorithms direct you into seeing the certain look.

31:56Thom Whiddett:Maybe that's just my algorithm. I don't know. Jacob E. Lorde. I think it's been like, there's been so many positives to come from that world and some negatives as well. Like it's opened a lot of people's eyes and inspires them to dress like Jacob or whoever. But I think finding your own style, again, going back to it, being comfortable in your own skin is key. you know some people would do like copy and paste you know you've got to do yourself you've got to do your own take you know again be inspired but yeah

32:24Luke Sweeney:it comes as you get older doesn't it I think you sort of really tune in to what what works for you but I've discovered loads of niche tailoring brands I'd never have seen or heard of and then you see a way they might do a lapel run or a shoulder seam and it's like it's good let's look at that so you know

32:43Thom Whiddett:it's a great shop window yeah integration yeah yeah just be yourself on it be exactly and and what about um different nations around the world different cities obviously london has got a very distinctive style but yeah we mentioned italy there i'm always yeah in italy i'm always you always see one or two things you're like wow that's yeah they're cool france i mean even spain sometimes there's a very distinctive kind of like spanish preppy look which i see sometimes which is really cool what are you guys where do you have you seen any unexpected things in cities around the world I think Japan is a huge one I think they're so stylish and almost a little bit underrated in terms of their style but on the tailoring side I get I see a lot of inspiration in Japan and Tokyo yeah Seoul as well yeah Seoul South Korea the sort of wearing tailoring now

33:31Luke Sweeney:is really really good relaxed cuts but still very elegant very sharp classic

33:37Thom Whiddett:not too fashionable you know So very, again, maybe it's our age as we're mature and we're looking for that, you know.

33:43Luke Sweeney:Yeah. But yeah. Obviously in Milan you see a guy in a beautiful navy suit with usually an English shoe to go with it, but on a moped it just looks elegant. Yeah, there is nothing better. No, it really is. On a bicycle. It's quite annoying actually. It is annoying.

33:57Thom Whiddett:Very simple, but they're so cool.

34:00Luke Sweeney:But also here, I mean, for tailoring, you know, we've really benefited and seen when we travel and you're going as a British tailor, it holds so much weight because we do the classic stuff so well still so elegant and still make that effort to do it properly follow the rules

34:17Thom Whiddett:yeah and we've still got that reputation definitely yeah underrated again I think we're quite quiet as a nation aren't we really yeah but you know we go opening in America now where people really look to British tailoring as a thing you know it's important and it's important for our city you know it is Yeah. We need to talk about it more. We do. And there's sometimes a narrative, a bit of a downbeat narrative around London, but around Savile Row as well. It's obviously not an easy time for any business. What's your take on Savile Row and its health right now and British tailoring as an institution?

34:52Thom Whiddett:I mean, being an optimist, I see so much potential there. You know, I think it should be. It still is the mecca of tailoring. But, you know, listen, some places need livening up a little bit. you know but I see a ton of potential I mean like I say the more we travel the respect it holds worldwide is incredible you know so but you know it's going through its moments it always has really even as long as I've been in the business it's everyone's said it's kind of like a bit old a bit stuffy you know but it still carries a lot of weight yeah

35:26Luke Sweeney:still like a bit of a mecca for tailoring isn't it so people will come and wander down down Savile Row and see all those old houses which some really really great ones fantastic ones it's just keeping that and then the new wave or new people coming through keeping that level doing their take as long as it's well made, well crafted and the people that are knowledgeable about it and it should do well

35:55Thom Whiddett:one of the other things that people are often sort of downbeat on or as lifestyle journalists we have to find things to write about so the amount of times I've been commissioned to write an article the suit is dead or the tie is over yeah these silly things which you realize that there's no way they're true but you have to sustain thank god yeah ties are definitely back what's your sense on on the state of the suit right now we were talking before about you know work from home changes it yeah but even stuff like london for the last few weeks feeling like madrid you know it's hot yeah the last thing you want to do is put a wool suit on yeah well maybe it's the best thing to do i don't know a nice fresco suit yeah it can be yeah funnily enough

36:35Luke Sweeney:being so hot forces you a bit to look at it again it does yeah we'd be making you know a lot of suits now at the moment but actually picking it up there was one what why is it still so heavy like the fabric's really light so you looked into it got a lighter canvas less de met there's a lot you can do in construction to lighten it and i think having six weeks of of heat a heat wave you're living in it you think well you can actually make it lighter so it forces you to to do something different and remake it. It's quite cool.

37:07Thom Whiddett:I wonder if it'll change as the climate changes, hopefully not too much, but it'll change the way London is dressed and maybe we'll start to be more Neapolitan. It pushes everyone though. It pushes fabric mills to investing technology to make things more breathable and even more heat resistant. They just keep evolving.

37:27Luke Sweeney:And we have to do collections for the stores in Miami and LA, which Miami especially is really hot. so it forces again humid as well yeah it's working with fabrics that still make really well but just that much lighter and more comfortable but I think like the suit as a garment I don't know it feels more special than ever doesn't it to me because at one stage it was a bit of a uniform many years ago people some people felt like they just had to wear one day yeah kind of a commuter grim yeah I think as things relax people took a different take on it yeah it feels more special every time you put one on it's like wow this makes me feel and look amazing so it's yeah it really really does it's more special i think

38:08Thom Whiddett:what about ties where is the tie can we plot a graph of tie usage are we going up again yeah i think so i mean we're seeing it here and i think the trade generally like people are definitely wearing ties more now uh we we we push it here in store actually all of our stores on fridays we do dress up friday now so nice everyone has to wear a shirt and tie and saturdays as well it's really important and it has impact you know like i personally if i wear a shirt i've got to wear

38:35Luke Sweeney:a tie personally a little different aren't you yeah i do wear ties on it now but either way but

38:41Thom Whiddett:yeah i agree uh yeah so it's it's definitely back you know yeah i think it just completes the

38:47Luke Sweeney:outfit yeah personally it's getting the fabric right so there's certain ties you wouldn't wear now but we're doing a lot of these sort of more matte silk yeah slight patterns quite vintage almost yeah yeah they look great with like certain color palettes and especially in summer they look beautiful like a linen or like we do a lot of these um these raw silks or more matte silk suits that with a with a tie it looks looks really special yeah it's lovely and again if you look

39:17Thom Whiddett:back at the old the old school or the guys we consider style icons you know the shirt and tie was a big thing you know how he looks cool but it's pretty much yeah and i think i think the hermes ties has dropped off modern hermes ties are not as good they're now thinner i think they're seven right centimeters seven i want seven something and also the patterns now are all like quite muted and h based right now they're all just like hermes h's yeah which is fine from a branding point of view but the fun of them used to be the weirdness of this yeah like an apple centric on some dog's head or really weird things which were kind of fun and beautiful and not for every day but quite quite beautiful in fact this isn't a rant against hermes but i went in there the other day to try and find a new tie and i have to make an appointment really i had to walk in give my name someone on an ipad said someone in the tie department could talk you through it and i was like well i'll know in 30 seconds whether i want a tower can i just go up and look there or no, you have to book it.

40:17Thom Whiddett:So Hermes, yeah, you've got work to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:21Luke Sweeney:Well, that just goes back to the hospitality, you know, idea that we have of just being looked after. Yeah. And I'm sure they had their reasons.

40:29Thom Whiddett:They thought that would look after more, but the barrier. They probably want to double down

40:32Luke Sweeney:on everyone who's in and give a good service.

40:34Thom Whiddett:You guys don't use an iPad when someone comes in? I don't even know how to work it, to be honest. Yeah, I have no idea. No. Just when they put their address

40:43Luke Sweeney:in at the end, that's it.

40:45Thom Whiddett:And Tom Sweeney is obviously now an international brand. As you say, you've got outposts everywhere. How do you find the men that come to you shop differently or how do they have different attitudes based on where they are in the world? LA, as we know, classically is a much less suit-driven culture. They're pretty relaxed. Their T-shirt is quite formal for them sometimes as long as they're not in flip-flops.

41:09Luke Sweeney:Two extremes there. So we've seen our more classic business suit. It doesn't move really out there because there's not a need for it, but there's red carpet, event-driven. Right, okay. Tailoring does really well. Or just great pieces of outerwear, like, you know, suede jackets. Yeah, fun. A bit of colour or pop do really well there. Whereas New York's quite similar to London, isn't it?

41:32Thom Whiddett:Yeah, it's more in line with London. They're very connected sort of climate-wise, you know, economy-wise. There's a big financial hub, obviously, in New York. So yeah, London and New York are very connected. I'd say Miami is its own thing. Yeah, what's Miami like? Crazy city, great fun. Yeah, great fun. It's more dressed up than LA. You go to a nice restaurant, people are wearing unstructured light jackets and a polo and a nice trouser with a shirt. So I'd say people dress up more than there, but colour is a little brighter. Of course, it has to be very lightweight. You don't really have winter there, really.

42:08Thom Whiddett:Do some light pieces of outerwear there. but Miami's more, like you say, more of a fun place, and the people there are different to New York and LA. But great to work with. Some characters there, for sure. Yeah, I can imagine. We spoke before about Seoul's this amazing place, and it's got, as you say, it's got a lovely family connection. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And also, I want to talk about how it seems that style and hospitality are kind of coming pretty close together. A lot of style brands and fashion houses are now opening restaurants and LVMH are buying ancient restaurants in Paris.

42:48Thom Whiddett:Maybe why you guys think that now style and eating out are becoming so sort of close as businesses? It's a good question. I think the shopkeeping side of it's hand in hand. You know, like all my favourite restaurants, it's probably like when customers come here, they're taking care of, usual table, you know, they know what I like. you know it's the same synergy is coming into uh one of our stores so i think the hospitality side of it happened quite naturally like i think back to uh wayhouse street which was kind of like our first physical space there was a doorbell was locked but but there was a excuse me there was a it was by appointment it was just bespoke then but we had a trolley there with some whiskey and some wine you know and we found in those days after their appointment guys liked hanging out and we'd chat about life and sport or whatever was going on in their world or our world.

43:38Thom Whiddett:And then route and place, we had a little bar, didn't we? Yeah, which was the till point. We wanted to make it a bar instead. It was a little bar there. And again, we saw our customer hanging out more and, you know, and again, it was great for us to sort of form even deeper relationships past the clothing, you know. So when we had the opportunity to open this and had the space and budget, we didn't know quite what to do with this room, did we? It was like a broom cupboard.

44:04Luke Sweeney:Yeah, sort of like three walls within here,

44:07Thom Whiddett:some tiny little crevices. And we didn't want it to be too up and down in terms of clients coming up, you know, in more retail up here. So it was Tom's idea, actually, when my father-in-law, Sol, who sadly passed about three or four months before we opened this, he said, why don't we open something in his honour? You know, he was so good to us and was a big part of our journey. So we decided to call it Sol's. Yeah. And it kind of, yeah, it's a nice story and there's a lot of meaning to it. And I think he would have enjoyed it up here. Definitely. It keeps the spirit so alive, isn't it? And it is an amazing name.

44:41Thom Whiddett:Yeah, it's a great name. Regardless of that lovely story, Souls is just, yeah, it sounds strong. Strong, isn't it? Very strong and also slightly old-fashioned. You don't really meet any Souls anymore, but Souls are good characters. Yeah, exactly. Every store we open now, we implement this Souls part of it, which is, again, very important. I think one day, like Ralph did with a polo bath, we will definitely venture into that world right that was going to be my next question yeah everyone's got a they say everyone's got a book inside them but I think everyone really has a restaurant or a bar inside them what can we sketch out the vision for a Tom Sweeney restaurant here without giving up too much yeah I mean just from a spirit perspective I think it would just be a great place for to take care of our friends and you know family and customers whoever it is I think like

45:27Luke Sweeney:the crowd is so important isn't it in a bar or restaurant what we're blessed with is the most amazing mix of clients who shot with us already. For more walks of life. Just getting them in a room is already going to create an energy that's special.

45:42Thom Whiddett:We see it in here. We invite 20 or whatever, 30 people here to have some fun, different eclectic mix of people where everyone's got the same spirit. It's nice to see. So imagine that on a restaurant scale. It'd be very cool. I'm kind of picturing the scene in Goodfellas where they... Exactly. Or through the back of the kitchen. Yeah. What would we cook? Is it going to be very classical steak and pasta? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Great steak, good fish, great burger, good pastrami sandwich.

46:15Luke Sweeney:Nice. Yeah, just good pasta. I think it's a place that you'd go back to, right? So it's got to be a menu that you could keep eating from. Okay.

46:23Thom Whiddett:And it's going to be called Souls maybe? We don't know. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Are you actively looking for sites? No, no, not yet. It'll be something we've got a lot to do. you know actual business before we want to crack the clay yeah hospitality is easy though by the way there will be a time yeah when it would just naturally yeah okay happen i think i mean the

46:42Luke Sweeney:space in new york at the back that we've built with the bar and like this whole sort of lounge area is it's quite cool because it's within the space itself well it's separated it's at the back but it's more natural isn't it people to go and hang out and have a drink yeah so that's quite interesting just to see how that starts shaping out and what guys are drinking out there. Martinis, I think on Thursdays the guys are going to do martini Thursdays. Okay, nice. But yeah, I think we're still putting it in the spaces and seeing how it's done. That's a really nice way to slide into it. I think that the fun part of any establishment is really important.

47:19Thom Whiddett:And again, it's not just clothing, but I remember when now and again, I'd sit in planning meetings with Sol and you know he was amazing like his attention to detail and it's just incredible but he would like literally say where's the fun gonna happen right like rooms are beautiful great you know architecture's great whatever but where are we gonna have fun you know and if you go to any of these hotels there was always that fun part of it that drew drew people back you know whether it's families or friends what a great thing what an amazing thing which is so obvious to say but it's overlooked yeah we've got the best chef the best interiors the best ingredients yeah there's nowhere to have fun you know it kind of like becomes a bit sterile and i think our spaces lend themselves to fun you know like there's so many different layers to to our spaces and i i get the impression or i know that customers love coming back and they have a good time you know it's not just about picking a navy fabric it's about having fun as well yeah so final question january 2027 will be 20 years since you guys started out in this game first part of that is how does it make you feel looking back on 20 years of growth and tom sweeney and everything that's happened along the way and secondly what are you going to do to celebrate what's what's going to be the birthday party yeah i mean listen it's going to your first question it's flown by you know it's uh it feels like yesterday it was 10 years and but um it's still you know we've got a lot to do it still feels like we're a very young company and i think we are you know i know we're getting a bit old and gray now but i was gonna say you're looking young yeah what's the skincare regime not much just water for me yeah a bit of moisturizer but i think that's the secret by the way you get involved in the products no no it's a slippery

49:06Luke Sweeney:slope anyway that's all yeah give it another five ten years yeah okay um but yeah it's been

49:13Thom Whiddett:it's been been amazing we've had you know ups and downs in the world like everyone and you know it's been a journey and we're still learning there's so much to do you know uh we're back we're babies but it's flown by it's been very enjoyable if i think back to you know again where i grew up and trying to find my way in this world you know um getting laughed out the gucci store Yeah, getting turned down by colleges, crappy jobs. It's been a ride, a fun ride. But yeah, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way, to be honest. It's been really cool. I feel very privileged.

49:47Luke Sweeney:What's quite nice is a lot of the people that are with us have stayed with us. Like Rich, who was with us from day one, and as the team's gone on, it's kind of given people the opportunity to grow with us, which is nice because it still feels quite young really doesn't it in the way we do stuff we're certainly not that corporate or you know matured in that way which I think is quite nice to have that approach and that energy still yeah

50:14Thom Whiddett:in our world if you think back like some of the great houses on Savile Row and around London you know they're over 100 years old some of these companies you know and the founders are not involved the company's fortunate I think that we've still got founders involved that are still very passionate and hardworking. So we're very lucky. But 20 years has flown by. It's great. It always does. It's been crazy, yeah.

50:37Luke Sweeney:It's quite early in the journey, isn't it, really, when you look at even a brand like Cuccinelli and sort of how he started and how long it takes to get to a point where it really kicks on. When you do something, your customers are loyal, they're coming back. It's about a great product that they keep for years. it's a slow builder but it's a good foundation to keep it going. Absolutely.

51:01Thom Whiddett:Yeah, we've got a lot to do. A lot to do. Yeah. So 20 years is a great milestone but yeah, we've got a lot to do. Okay. Yeah. And the celebration next year, birthday party? Yeah, we'll do something fun going back to the fun part. Yeah, you'll be there. But yeah, we'll do something really cool. Good. I haven't really sort of nailed it but we're talking about it now. Okay. Yeah, it's going to come around very quickly. So next year we'll do something really cool to celebrate. Yeah. You're not jumping out of a giant cake. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah making a new suit for that yeah a jumpsuit exactly sequence yeah yeah wonderful well I look forward to that moment yeah no we're not doing that we'll have a lot of fun okay good good thanks very much for doing this it's been fun yeah yeah great pleasure thanks for having us before you go just a final reminder about the Clubhouse membership our way to unlock a whole host of benefits across the world of Gentleman's Journal including two magazine issues delivered to your door each year, full access to all our paywall content, members-only invites to exclusive events, and a weekly newsletter delivered into your inbox every weekend.

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