Nick Jones, Hospitality Entrepreneur

0:00Joe Bullmore:Hello and welcome to another episode of the Gentleman's Journal podcast. I'm Joe, I'm the editor of Gentleman's Journal and we're sitting here today in St Clement Hotel just behind the Strand on the River Thames in London with Nick Jones who's the founder of the hotel and formerly of Soho House to discuss his life and career in hospitality, how to conjure atmosphere in a room and why a prostate cancer diagnosis changed his outlook on life and his career.

0:36Joe Bullmore:okay here we go that feels like a good way to start that's good start with the applause i think is a good way to do it one clap nick thanks very much for joining us here on the gentleman's journal podcast well thank you for inviting me well i say we're you're joining us but we're very much joining you this is We're sitting right now in St. Clement in the lofts, these beautiful rooms. Is that the right phrase, the lofts? River lofts. The river lofts, excuse me. Only because they are right on the river. Yeah, yeah. We're not fibbing about that. They're properly on the river. Yeah. And you get the full swing of London.

1:19Joe Bullmore:Yeah, it's remarkable. No one can see this, but to my left, there's the most incredible sweep, a view you never really see across London. You don't see it because we're on the bend. Yeah. So you can get left and right and it's pretty impressive. Yeah, on a day like today, it's wonderful. Yeah. So what do you feel sitting in this beautiful room on these pristine, gorgeous white sofas looking around you? There's still a tiny scent of fresh paint in the air. It all feels very new. It feels back to school. How do you feel? Well, I mean, obviously nervous. Yeah. Even though, you know, I've been opening places for quite a long time.

1:56I think you need to be nervous because it keeps you on your toes. So far, I've been really happy with everyone's reaction. We're not open yet, but people have been trying rooms out. And we've got Café Clement open downstairs and Bobby's Bar open downstairs. So it's feeling good, Joe, but you never know.

2:21Joe Bullmore:Has there ever been an opening where you've been 100 % sure? Or is it always like this every time? Never. Not once, not once. Really? Not once. Have they ever gone spectacularly wrong? Any openings? We're getting right into the... Lots of things go spectacularly wrong at the opening. A roof might not be on, or there might be no electricity because they haven't finished, or whatever, there might be no water. So lots of things go wrong at openings because you're not always finished. but yeah I mean there are all sorts of disasters happening at openings but you you you you get through it yeah always so we're sitting on a part in behind the strand I would say on the river in a part of London which to be honest I never spent much time in at all well it is the oldest part of London yeah I mean actually we are sitting behind 180 the strand we are 180 the Thames which looks directly onto the Thames with the views you've just been explaining.

3:29So it is a new part of London to lots of people, but it's where London started.

3:37Joe Bullmore:Really? And actually, just four blocks from here, there is the Savoy Hotel, which was the first grand hotel of London built in 1871. Okay. and they built their second hotel in the suburbs and they called it Claridge's. Right. That was a suburb back then, a sleepy part of Mayfair. Yeah, how funny. Yeah. It's an amazing, I mean, it is, you couldn't get more central than this and yet it's often kind of, it's a beautiful road but often seen as a kind of thoroughfare between the West End and the start of the city. Yeah, I mean, not this, not this end but it is a good part of London and there's beautiful walks and there's lovely, you go around temple gardens and you walk along a river, you go to Tate Modern.

4:30There's so many things you can do from this spot.

4:32Joe Bullmore:Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. So how did this idea first come apart? What was the first spark for doing this? Why did you want to dive back into hospitality after this? It's a very good question, Joe. A question I ask myself often. I stepped down from Sower House because I had prostate cancer. And even though I was very lucky, I caught my prostate cancer early and I'm cancer free now. I sort of reflected that if that horrible phone call, when they tell you it hasn't spread or has spread, it was that sort of 50-50 moment. and if it had spread, I would have only had three, four years left to live and if it hadn't spread like it hasn't for me, I had the whole of my life but I wanted to live my life differently.

5:25I didn't want to be on an aeroplane all the time opening sewer houses globally because I've been doing it for 30 years and I didn't really have a plan what to do after stepping down from sewer house. so the this came available because Mark Wadwer who is my partner and has actually we've collaborated and partnered since Soho House Berlin which is his property right so that was like 16 17 years ago so we've worked together a lot we work together on 180 the Strand we work together on Brighton we work together on Soho Works so there's been a lot of work that we've done together and when I was running Sewer House which is on 180 for Strand I didn't even know he was sort of building a hotel here because he didn't want to sew a house in it so it wasn't on my radar and then when I stepped back he said well how about it and I thought yeah well it would be quite nice because it's just one project it's not like I don't have to get on an aeroplane I can come to I can get back into the weeds.

6:34I can get back selecting all the team. I can be very involved in every single detail.

6:40Joe Bullmore:Right. And that appealed to me. OK. And I think that's why I'm really enjoying it. Because I'm back doing... Why did I go into hospitality? It's because I love a room full of people having a good time. And I'm back doing that. So it take you back to those early days, first very first days of Cafe Boheme and So House back in the early 90s. Indeed indeed yeah weirdly it never gets easier. No, encouraging. You would have thought. Yeah that's strangely encouraging to know. What was this building before was it was there anything here or was it completely? There was a hotel here called the Howard yeah which was knocked down and replaced by this building because this This building, St.

7:27Clement's Hotel, it's got 90 bedrooms, 15 river lofts, which we're sitting in at the moment. It's got a health club, 25 ,000 square feet health club. It's got Florence Knights opening a restaurant album on the roof called Lunettes. We've got Bobby's Bar, we've got Cafe Clement. Alex Eagle is opening a studio store. So there's a screening room coming. So there's a lot of things happening here. And that makes it very exciting.

7:55Joe Bullmore:Yeah, I'm sure it does. And looking back on those earliest days of Sower House, that was the early 90s. How has hospitality in London changed, do you think, in that period? Well, I mean, fundamentally, it hasn't changed. Right. It still involves a plate of food and a drink. Yeah, yeah. And people do it differently now. People might not drink so much. People might not eat so much. People might not want to go to bed so late. So it might be more expensive to run a restaurant. Yeah. It might be more expensive, the rent, the rates, the staff rates. So it's always slightly changing. Never quite in the right direction.

8:46Joe Bullmore:Okay. As in things get always more expensive. Everything gets more expensive. And you don't want to pass it on to the customer always. Because the customer is the brightest person. Okay. They spot everything. And I have huge respect for the customer. so yeah you you it's it's it's it's london you as you asked me is is is is the greatest city in the world let's face it um that's the definitive answer i like that certainty definitely and i've been to a few um through through running so a house and even though it might feel like yeah it's not in its heyday. If it's not in its heyday now, it will be in a few years.

9:34It never stays down for long.

9:36Joe Bullmore:No, I can imagine. And it seems to me that people still want, really, what you were providing to them all those years ago. Café Bohème was a place you could have steak fruit and a decent glass of red wine and maybe stay up late. And now I look around and all the most popular restaurants, the ones I love the most, offer things like steak fruit and a good glass of wine. Nothing too experimental. I think people have a sense now of maybe comfort, food, reliability, gregariousness, hopefully some sort of sense of that conviviality that you were conjuring back then. I believe so. I think less is more.

10:10Yeah. I mean, don't overcomplicate the offer. Keep it simple. Keep it great quality. And people love that.

10:19Joe Bullmore:Yeah. it's amazing to think i didn't realize this before doing the research on this that your first ever restaurant was called over the top it was indeed and it was thank you for reminding me it was it was anything but simple let's say can you explain to us the concept it's a it's a brilliantly punny it was back in 1988 i'm sure most people watching this weren't even thought of uh it was on full and Broadway, an area in London I can't drive past still now because of the failure I had with Over the Top. Yeah, the idea was you chose a bit of steak, a bit of burger, a bit of chicken, a bit of lamb, and over the top of it you put sauce.

11:02Joe Bullmore:Okay, and you had a variety of different sauces to pick? We had a variety of different sauces. What were some of the sauces? Which were all disgusting. Were they? They were named after mountains because you were going over the top. Okay. I mean, it gets worse and worse. Can we talk about something else? We should move on. But I think it's so encouraging to think of someone who's at the pinnacle, to talk to you as a mountaineering analogy. I know. I just think that you had... So there was, you know... A tough time in the foothills yourself. Noopsy and... Was there? Okay. Maybe we'll bring it back.

11:33And a porno. And a porno. Okay. Yeah, there were... It just wasn't very good, but I learned so much.

11:40Joe Bullmore:Yeah. That's where I learned the customer is so sensible. They don't want complication. They want simplicity and they want it consistent. Yeah, that's a very, very good lesson. Yeah, it's a good lesson. I'm sure you did. And you didn't quit either. That could have been a flop that you went back to the tail. Well, it's the same. Well, Sour House is still the same company as it was. Right. It was over the top. Right. It was the same company. So really over the top is the most successful members club in history. Yeah, well, that's it. That's what it is. What was your very, very first job in hospitality?

12:12you were all the way back how did you well i i i i used to um play rugby as a kid what position were you this is a good psychological test of a um i was number seven were you wing forward wily and strong bit uncoordinated bit uncoordinated but fast not that fast okay but you put your face where you shouldn't not that good oh really but i enjoyed it okay but our local rugby side at home I used to work behind the bar from the age of 13

12:44Joe Bullmore:and I really enjoyed it. Pulling pints? Were you allowed to pull pints? I think then no one cared. I mean, they do now, obviously, rightly so, but then they didn't, especially in a rugby club. Yeah, I can imagine, sure. And I would also prepare the players' teas. Oh, good. I thought I quite liked this. Okay, good. And you've worked at almost every sort of rung of the hospitality ladder. You were in marketing at one point, you were a barman, I think, Mayfair you know your Google research Google's a wonderful thing and even housekeeping at the Westbury Hotel even housekeeping even has keep which is yeah I suppose it's an amazing thing to have done everything because now you I think you can't run a place unless you know every job yeah I worked in the kitchens I worked in housekeeping I worked in all the departments but when I was training, when I was getting my apprenticeship.

13:41Joe Bullmore:Yeah. So, yeah, it was good. Yeah, it's amazing. And so her house came up incredibly organically. You'd never really spent time in the members' club milieu. I suppose it wasn't really, apart from the sort of stuffy old rooms of St. James'. Well, in all fairness, there were the gentlemen's clubs of St. James'. But Groucho had been going for 10 years. So in fairness, Groucho needs the praise. They broke the mold into the new way of members clubs now, which was more creative way of thinking. And we came 10 years later. Yeah. Yeah, we opened because it was above Cafe Bo-Hem. And it was offered to us, offered to me, and said, will you take this space?

14:27The landlord phoned me up. And I thought, well, what can I do there? It's got a small door, so it's got to be a private members club. So that's how it started.

14:36Joe Bullmore:Yeah. There was never any plan. No. That must be very freeing that you didn't have some sort of grand business plan that you were stuck to. Never had a grand business plan. No. Because half the problem is I'm very dyslexic and find it difficult to write. Yeah. So I kept away from that. But I've heard you say before that's kind of a useful trait in a way because you simplify things. You're not overly verbose or complex. I mean, whatever you might have, it's an advantage. Being dyslexic is an advantage because you look at things differently. And I'm always trying to simplify things. And why can't we just put that on one sheet of paper and bullet point it and just make it a bit simple?

15:20Why does it have to be longhand, five pages long, which no one's ever going to read?

15:26Joe Bullmore:Yeah, I'm smiling because as a writer, that sounds like what I would do. Where I could write three lines, I would probably try and write 3 ,000 words. Well, as a writer, the problem is that you get paid per word. You're not incentivized to be short. And there's no real incentive to keep your stuff short. So they need to work out a new way of... They do. They need to pay you on how good the article is. Exactly. It doesn't matter how, if it's 25 words or 3 ,000 words. It's just got to be good and engaging. And then you get paid. That should be the system. That should be the system. What type of person do you like to work with then?

16:03Joe Bullmore:Who were your, when you were opening this place, who was the first person you thought, right, I've got to get them on board for the team? Well, it was Danny, the head chef from River Cafe. Yes. So that was quite important. Okay. How did you lure him over from the... Well, he'd been at River Cafe only 20 years. Only. So I said, Danny, maybe another place, give it a go. Yeah. But then they'd become institutionised and settled. Of course. and so anyway we got him to come okay brilliant and what's his what's what's danny brought to what's his signature he was he was he actually his first job was in the savoy um uh savoy which i applied for their apprentice course and and didn't get in really so i ended up going on the trust house 41 okay so danny worked for savoy then his restaurant was roly lee at kensington palace place, Kensington Place, and then 20 years of Rufy and Rose at the River Cafe.

17:02Joe Bullmore:Yeah, okay. So his mentoring and teaching couldn't have been from a higher standard. No, of course. And do you give someone like that completely free reign? Do you have an idea of how that restaurant was going to fit in with the rest of the hotel? We work together on it a lot. And Danny and I are incredibly close. and we don't have a disagreement about the menu. No. He's very, you know, he has the final say what goes on the menu. Of course. And so far, him and I have agreed on everything. I'm always so fascinated by how a menu is constructed and how many iterations it must go to. Have you tried hundreds and hundreds of dishes to whittle it down to the 20 or 30 or so that you do?

17:48Joe Bullmore:Not really. I mean, Daddy is so good. You just give them a saucepan or a pan and a piece of fish and they'll make it taste great. Yeah, yeah. OK, well, I'm looking forward to trying it. I want to talk about sort of London as a place for creative people, but also for entrepreneurs. Your house was set up on the premise that it was a gathering spot for really creative people. Yeah. So you must have met a lot of them. The narrative we have now is that 30 years hence, it's really tough time to be a young creative person because it's so expensive to live here and I guess industries are in flux and everything's changing.

18:24Joe Bullmore:What do you think about that? How do you feel looking at all of that? I think it is tough. The world is in a tough place at the moment. And England, Britain is in a tough place at the moment. Yeah, it's difficult for young people to get work. things are changing all the time with AI, with this, with that. I think it is very, very, very challenging for young people. And I think the risk of tightening up on employment laws sometimes works against what you're trying to do. Because as someone who employs lots of people, you're always going to look after your staff. That's given. You're not going to mess around with their rotors or whatever.

19:26But we are in a tricky time and margins on restaurants are much more difficult than they were. Finding good quality people who want to work in hospitality is difficult. And then on top of that the general audience who come to your restaurants are not as not more careful with their money yeah so it's a it's a it's a but it will change you're you're you're you seem an optimist in general i am an optimist maybe you know that's not the best thing i am but i i do come back to us being the greatest city in the world and there have been politicians who have messed it up a bit and brought in policies which aren't right and don't help London.

20:13Those policies will be changed. Might not be changed now, but in 10 years' time, they'll be changed.

20:19Joe Bullmore:Yeah. Do politicians consult you? Not really. I mean, it'll be the usual thing. Cut the bat. Bring duty-free shopping back. Yeah. I mean, that just seems... That's just lost us hundreds of thousands of tourists. Yeah. who stay in hotels, who then eat in restaurants, who then participate in being London. So that's not a very sensible thing. No. And when young people come to your advice, what kind of questions are they asking? What do most people want to know about either getting to this industry or setting up a business? Well, when people come and ask me, I'm always encouraging because I'm always encouraging in entrepreneurship.

21:02Joe Bullmore:Yeah. so I always want people to go and do something on their own if they can so I'm very very encouraging on people trying to get something else get their idea off the ground but it's difficult because it's just difficult at the moment it's more difficult than it has been in a long time is there a single piece of advice you hear yourself giving more than any others? Is there a line that you like when someone comes to you and says, I've got an idea, got a business? Well, I look at lots of people's ideas, and some of them I invest in or help advise.

21:47And if you're good, you're still fine. It's not like it's a disaster happening out there. There's still 9 million people who live in this city. they still want to eat out they still want to have fun so I think we just need to get ourselves out of this rut

22:10Joe Bullmore:right, yeah someone said to me the other day that audacity is sort of audacity is the thing we need right now people to be incredibly bold and that goes a lot further than both talent and hard work what do you think about audacity as a concept? Well, I think it's in the mix. I don't think it's the main thing. I think hard work and talent also come in. Yeah. You were famously, well, you were, I should say, you had a very hard work ethic. As you say, you'd spend most of your life on planes. And actually, we had Martin Krasmarski on our podcast before, who said a similar thing, that his abiding memory of his time in the latter stage of Soar House was just planes and hotels and airport lounges and relentless travel.

22:57I had dinner with Martin last night. Okay. And, yeah, he was on a plane ridiculous amount of time.