In conversation with Daisy Knatchbull, Editor of Kultura

0:00Hello and welcome to another episode of the Gentleman's Journal podcast. I'm Joe Bulmore, the editor of Gentleman's Journal, and my question today is who on earth would launch a print magazine in the year 2025? Well, I'll tell you who. Harry Jarman, the founder of Gentleman's Journal, and Daisy Knatchbull, the founder of Knatchbull, that's who. At the end of last year, they welcomed Cultura, a magazine which I now hope you've heard of and which is now on its third issue, Into the World. It's a new publication all about pioneering women, redefining success on their own terms. And so in this episode, recorded in March of this year, I think, I sat down in a lovely suite at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel, thanks for that, with Daisy and Harry to discuss this new venture, including the struggle of coming up with a name, why Lauren Hutton at the age of 81 was the perfect first cover star, and why it's always worth paying more for shoes.

0:55Enjoy!

1:07daisy harry welcome to the gentleman's journal podcast daisy natural editor-in-chief of cultura harry jarman editor-in-chief of gentleman's journal joe ballmore humble editor oh don't Don't do yourself so damn. Well, it's hard not to because I've just looked through this issue, which I've done many times. Daisy Natchable's editor's photo is an entire page. Did you ever have an entire page? Are you saying you don't have an entire page? No, I've got a thumbnail. You do have a thumbnail. I've got a postage stamp. And they've done a lot of work on that postage stamp. And mine. Really? I would love to say there was a reason for it.

1:45I think she's just prettier than you, mate, to be honest with you. That's the crux of it. Okay. And I've got beautiful jewellery on, thanks to Chopin. We're here because this is the first issue of Cultura. It's been out since November last year, but we haven't really had a chance to talk about it yet. I know. We haven't done the backstory of Cultura and how it came to be. It's hard enough doing one luxury magazine. Yeah. Why did we think it was a good idea to do a second, is basically the question. It's a very good... I think I'm still trying to work that one out at the moment. But no, honestly, I think, like you say, we launched this at the end of last year.

2:20We haven't really had time to digest it and sit down and talk about it. And what better format is to do that than a podcast? Yeah. Why? I think that's a really good question. I mean, it did actually start off way further ago than you think. Daisy and I obviously have been friends for a long, long time. And it did start off with a 2 a.m. sofa session probably 10 years ago. Yeah, I think 15. Yeah, when I was launched. Yeah, I just launched Gentleman's Journal. Daisy had launched her business at the time as well. The Deck, or Nashville, as it's now called. And Daisy turned around to me, and she was like, oh my God, this is so amazing, you run a magazine.

2:57I've always wanted to run a magazine. My teen dream. But with Gentleman's Journal, it is obviously a really, really tough business. And the last thing I thought I would end up doing is launching... I'm working with me. I'm working with one of my best mates on it. Ultimately, I think the time was right, and that's when it sort of came around. It's got a USP, which we'll come on to. But I think also the Gentleman's Journal is so established and so brilliant and so, everything about it is great, but it also has a great female following. I think all of which were looking for that same kind of spirit within a publication.

3:32I think there's something really exciting around all the news at the moment of publishing dying and, you know, print is dead and all that to actually get excited about a new publication. And I think there's something quite special in owning that. And people have really got behind that buzz, which has been exciting. General's Journal has always been like the men's entrepreneurial men's magazine. And I've always thought that was the edge over our competitors, that business, startup. up and that's the same thing with Cultura as well so obviously Daisy is one of the top sort of London female entrepreneurs and that what runs through the whole magazine so and they're the people that we've collected together are all super successful in their own right and it's to celebrate that so like the first issue you'll notice that we've got little interviews with all these amazing female entrepreneurs and that's exactly the same with General's Journal so I think that's the the reason they are very much linked in that sort of way.

4:25and also I think the magazines of today I don't think anyone speaks to that modern entrepreneurial woman um I think it's pushing the boundaries a little bit it's diving deeper and getting more gritty into the stories of success and the stories of hardship and you know the challenges that we face on a daily basis and I think that catering a magazine to that more feisty woman is going is is what's created you know the first issue being such a success and us being able to bring together such a a star team and and with everything that we've got going forward which we can't wait to show everyone and for that very reason i think it's it's going down that different direction absolutely so it did start off with a 2am sofa session the best things do don't they exactly exactly i want to talk about the team the amazing team because that seems like a really clever way to launch a magazine is to get incredible cast of contributors because then they're sort of these incredible evangelist for it.

5:22We should have started like that. We don't even know anyone. Well, that's how we wanted to start with a bang. I think, you know, putting Lauren Hutton, putting an 80-year-old woman on the cover, putting, you know, one of the world's most iconic models who's 80 years old and building a team of people, you know, that we've got some of them. But you've assembled this amazing group of women. Yeah, and for me, I think that's such a great representation of incredible force of women who all have had amazing experiences in their own field and also some people, you know, that really have worked for some of the best publications in the world.

5:49So that was a huge honour. And you're right, I think that was a great way to bring Cultura into this world. That's what I love is when people are open and they're like, whoa, how have you got all these amazing women? But they're all like forces of nature for sure. Absolutely. We'll talk about some of them in a bit. But firstly, the name Cultura. Oh, God. The name. About two and a half years ago, we were in Colbo on Sloane Square. And everyone was coming up with names, 900 % of which we were pretty bad. this has been like the most painful this is the hardest part of any business I don't know I just changed my name General's Journal which is weird people say they think it's been established for way longer than it actually has yeah I agree with that I think we just came up with that name I mean no we did we went through a ton of iterations but this one I mean we went for a ton of iterations we did it was going to be called Hera which is the goddess of women which we thought was incredibly appropriate that ended up being having a trademark issue with Juno which was the Roman or Greek equivalent.

6:51Yeah, also the name of your dog. Which is the name of my dog. That's great. But I love that idea, goddess of women, all that kind of thing. And Kultura happened, yeah, Kultura happened. But why would Juno? It's the same issue. I think, yeah, it's the same issue. How do you trademark a Roman god? Well, I think a lot of people have trademarked a lot of things. It wasn't actually so much that. It was actually protecting it, you know, from other people. So, Koltura came around over at lunch at Gordon Ramsay's. I mean, honestly, we had sent, Harry and I, at one in the morning, I just sent ten names that just, I mean, we got, it was hard.

7:29I love this name, Al, though. It was hard. I mean, this name, I really, like, it's growing on me. But I think also when you first name it, it feels strange anyway. And then, I mean, like I said, I've just gone through a rebrand of my own business of a name. According to your business, my last name felt weird. It always felt like my last name. It now doesn't feel like my last name at all. But now it seems like you should have done that. It's so odd, I know. it's like a bad ex-boyfriend and everyone's like thank god we hated the last one um but no it's cult cult and culture joined together who you must say okay so like the whole idea is it's like we want to build a community we want it to really talk about what's going on now in the world but as well as that you know in the years to come we want this community to be powerful strong yeah and mean something and that's what the gentleman's journal does really well and i really wanted that to be echoed in culture is this idea of community building like the gentleman's journal reader is also going to be getting involved however he or she can and in the events that you do and the lifestyle and everything that surrounds that and I think you capture that lifestyle essence very well and I think that's exactly what we want to be doing in Kultura is creating this community of kind of fearless amazing women who who want more from life yeah and um I believe that does that nice you're nodding I like I'm not sending you the dream here yeah is that that's quite professional isn't it nodding yeah active listening Daisy obviously you're your other job your other life you make you make clothes I make clothes making magazines is one of those things that people think and I still trick myself into thinking this how hard can it be and then every issue is like having 40 different projects I have so much respect for you guys thank you no but I never doubted it I mean I always knew this was journalism is the route that I originally wanted to go down to all my experience later and I knew how hard it was why do you find it so hard but you just feel like you have to start again yeah it's a blank slate and then you you have all these great ideas and then every idea is essentially a small project that requires yeah a lot of dirty moving parts within it usually it's also dealing with the external things that you have no control exactly every time publicist agent publicist but you know what i mean it's like it's you know or something something happens or or you know you're doing a story and then you know i don't know but it's it's no immune feat and and i have the utmost respect and you know this has taken just to get the first issue like you said it was two and a half years ago and we had a ton of variables that we couldn't control yeah um but that's life and that's building building things good things don't come easy no they don't what were the similarities between the things you do at natural and things you've done at cultura it's building two businesses effectively i mean starting i was tasked with starting this building the team naming thinking you know shaping the whole image of what it will come to be that's building a business it follows exactly the same path you know finding the right people for it looking at the branding looking at how this stands not just you know my business isn't just a tailoring house again it's a movement it's a community it stands for a certain thing that's the same with cultura and then in my third life I have a I run a network of over a thousand female founders and that's a project that I'm embarking on to try and build that into a business a thousand thousand wow what's it called It's called The Female Collective.

10:38Okay. It started on a WhatsApp group with 30 women, built to over a thousand, which is amazing, just in the UK. But anyway, again, this magazine is for people like that, you know? And also, I think the most important thing about this magazine is you don't have to be an entrepreneur. It's an entrepreneurial-minded woman. And there's a big difference there, because I think a lot of people feel isolated. We're not just saying it's entrepreneurs. It's like it's... The entrepreneurial women. Yeah. It's a mindset, basically. Yeah, definitely. But I think that's important because I think a lot of people can feel isolated by, you know, it feels like everyone's starting a business today and all that.

11:10But actually, you know, that same woman that's sitting there working at Citibank till in the morning has got exactly the same mindset, you know, of wanting to strive for more. You come across quite a lot of these women with Nashville as well. I'm very lucky. I mean, like, so a lot of Daisy's clients are like, you know, these type of super successful women. ultimately we're working the age of luxury and you know we have a lot of amazing luxury brands that they want to target these women you know and I think beforehand it was you know they used to target the men buying the jewelry that doesn't really exist anymore you know now it's they have so many clients where these women are coming in and going right I want to buy my own necklace and they buy themselves or my own car I mean that's what I love in some of the stories that we've done you know the really going hard on kind of watches and cars and because it's like this odd thing that magazines for women, targeted women, just feel like women don't buy their own cars.

12:02Well, I mean, one of our contributors did like, you know, collective of women buying their own supercars. Love that. You know, which, you know, in its own thing, it's a very masculine thing, but actually why is that a masculine thing? There's no reason to it. So I think, you know, like there's this whole world, which is kind of quite cool. Yeah. And, you know, doing Ferrari tours and stuff like that, it's kind of crazy. Very cool. And so, Harry, what was your role in all of this? My role was to sit back and nod my head in agreement to everything Daisy said. No, I think, look, ultimately, it was trying to take what I've learnt from Gentleman's Journal and putting that into Cultura.

12:42You know, we have our own, like, way of working with Gentleman's Journal. We have the magazine, the print magazine, has a method behind it to the madness. Wow. Can't wait to see the method. It has a flow and, like, you know, you go style shoot, you know again it was just i i'm just there with daisy saying should we put this in the front should we put that weirdly like this is a bit different because we've tried to keep the same format of gentleman's journal and design's been a massive thing shout out to ryan and joe who put the whole thing together but you know we really wanted to go and put loads of effort into making this feel feel like gentleman's journal so like the paper quality the print quality um you know the photo shoots, allowing things to breathe on the page.

13:25A lot of women's magazines at the moment, as like the men's, because publishing has had to cut costs, you know, they become quite filmsy things that you throw away after you read it. We didn't want that to be the case with Cultura, as we did with Gentleman's Journal. So again, I think my thing was taking that to Daisy, really. But you know, you'll see a bit of similarity to the stuff that you developed all that time ago, mr ball now looks better you know like that was a huge takeaway from people and you know the launch was my god it's so nice to feel everyone smells it magazine yeah one that feels like no one's scrimping you know they actually care and definitely and um very much the ethos of what we were saying is the idea of i love this idea that when a magazine's such good quality you keep it you know great on the coffee table all that but i love the idea of packing it for a holiday and turning down the pages and opening it and getting it back out again and rereading and taking your time i mean with most of these flimsy things i just throw them in my bag read a couple of pages and then bin it um this is something we want people to treasure that kind of booker zine feeling where you feel proud to put it and it's been on so many great coffee tables it's great and we've had such a great response i think the other side of it is just working out also like where like we are all the time with gentleman's journals like where is where's the world going where's the reader going hence why we're doing like more podcasts now more video and podcasts It's going to be big, I think.

14:45Yeah, obviously the website's recently launched, and the next stage is obviously we've got amazing print issues coming out this year, following on from the launch issue, and now it's working out how we can grow that brand digitally. Okay, nice. So the issue's going to be themed? They are going to be themed. Okay. Are you going to test me on the themes? No, I mean, we've put in... They're quite broad themes. We've put in, like, loose themes. The spring issue's going to be very much travel, beauty, wellness, entrepreneurs. And summer, again, is a big, big, like, escapism issue. Quite fun. Summer, entertaining.

15:18Interior is home. And then we're going to do, like, icons, activism, art and design for the winter. So, I mean, they're loose themes, but every issue is going to be jam-packed full of amazing women doing cool things. I think that's also been the cool thing. It's like we were just going through, like, a whole list of, you know, Daisy's like, why have you put this name on here? And then she, like, takes it, Googles it, and goes, whoa, or she'll say a name to me, and I'll be like, who is it to be honest i'm not obviously the target market of this i'll cover the amazing lauren hutton i'm going to admit you like that was our first fight i i didn't i didn't know i didn't know who lauren hatter was but she also is this amazing force of nature and the first sort of what first female supermodel to get a million she negotiated a million dollar deal with maybelline was the first contractual but now it's come now it's come out i've been at meetings and and these people have been like, how did you get her on the front cover?

16:11You know, because apparently she's, you know, notoriously very hard to get any time with. And also, I think everyone was expecting us to put a young, cool actress on the cover. And that's the one thing I don't want to do, is, like, we're not going to follow that. We don't want to follow that, the route of doing the normal colours, as, like, we try and do with Gentleman's Journal. We've got some cool covers lined up. Yeah, we can't talk about that. But the video content with Lauren was amazing. You know, the idea of this 80-year-old woman saying, you know, women are government, and whatever she was saying.

16:39I mean, she said some quite, definitely go and watch it if you haven't because she says some quite outrageous things. But it's also quite, I mean, it's kind of great to just pit on social media. Oh, she said the word. We can beep stuff out, can't we? Yeah. Go on. Fuck. She says men are for fucking, I think she says. So you're like, and actually like, you know, as Billy Connolly says, fuck is a very good word. But like, you know, I think she just doesn't care. and I think getting that out in a video format. It was one thing getting that out in a print format, but following up with that. So essentially these magazines are going to be the pillars for all the content that we're going to be talking about.

17:17Yeah, quite right. And I think the other side is the event side, which is going to come to town later on in the year where we're going to be bringing these female founders together, doing amazing events, which General's Journal has sort of built a reputation for doing. They're like the hot tickets in town, your parties. Yeah, and out of town as well. And out of town. Not too far, I mean Oxfordshire. Oxfordshire. We did Cannes occasionally. Oh, of course. Yeah, we can do Cannes again, actually. We should do Cannes again. Do you ever go overseas? We might be doing something overseas. Maybe later on, more on that on another podcast.

17:50But no, I think, again, that same feeling that you guys have within the Gentleman's Journal, the extension of that for women that they've been so wanting, I think is lovely. The style, again, with Gentleman's Journal, we're not a fashion magazine. We don't follow trends. But every brand that we have in there is like, you know, stuff that you go to and you buy a really cool bit of clothing and you keep it. And sometimes you can, you know, match that with a pair of jeans and then a really nice blazer with Gentleman's Journal. Again, with the same thing with the fashion in Cultura, it's to do that timeless, which Daisy does very well in her own business, is to do this timeless fashion.

18:28And that's also looking back at sort of cool, I mean, amazing images of the Kennedys back in the old day or Princess Diana or like, you know, all of that's still cool. You know, it never really went out of fashion. And actually, it's to celebrate the cool old with the new and do it in a way that has a real editorial tone. Daisy's got that in abundance in terms of knows the style. I mean, you do a very good job of it as well, Jay, with Channel's Channel. Thank you. but I also love that Instagram that you guys you know your Instagram is famous um and shout out to Harvey right yeah but it's an amazing and I mean from from very early days you guys amassed a huge amount of followers and it's that display of kind of incredible chic dandyism kind of epic men through history and I love the job that Harvey's done on the culture Instagram of issuing that same kind of vibe with Princess Diana and Jackie O and Lauren and reviving very much kind of reviving you said you wanted to be like a maggot ripping out a page yeah yeah and it's that same thing of kind of reviving these great female icons do you do that do you rip pages out when you were younger daisy did this um did i do that were you a magazine person i was i absolutely was were you actually kind of vino man i used to read vino vino was a great magazine were you actually a magazine person yeah so what did you like what did you read when you listen When I was 10 years old, I was reading Graydon Carter's Spider-Man.

19:52Were you actually? No. I was reading... No, I used to read, actually, and I didn't understand any of it, a private eye. My dad had a subscription to private eye. That's very cheap reading that. Because it had little cartoons in it. How old? I reckon eight. God, you were all right. Eight or a half. This is too much. Yeah, I've got a very good understanding of late 90s politics. I don't remember reading any of the articles, but I remember the flow of it all. But you do remember having like a... Turn a voice out. See, I remember, I used to love magazines when I was like teenage years, I think. It surprises me you guys are surprised by that.

20:24No, I know. I mean, I literally grew up, like we said, maybe that's more of a female thing, but kind of ripping things out and turning down pages and scrapbooking and like... Was this pre-internet? Yes. No, no, I'm just trying to work out. I mean, we're not that old, are we? Well, it's around, I wouldn't say pre-internet, but I'd say around the dial-up time. It's dial-up stuff. We were not dial-up. Well, yeah, we were dial-up. of course you're my age yeah yeah we were i think we were the internet before it became a format to have a fashion magazine on it basically yeah definitely i don't know as much online i think that's been the problem that no one realized quick enough that yeah i think should be online should have should have would have could have well like natalie massonate going trying to get people to buy fashion online everyone said no one would ever do it yeah look at it now look at it yeah that's weird as well because you've sort of gone from that there and now print's having a i wouldn't say resurgence is the right word but it's definitely having a moment where people are appreciating it again yeah i think so i mean the the lazy thing is to say it's like vinyl and people want it for nostalgic regions but actually i don't think it is just i think people are just tactile in general but it's the same with covid and the same me as having bricks and mortar people said oh everyone will only shop online people don't they crave that human interaction they crave the tactile nature of shopping of reading of all of those things i think it's a fundamental human need.

21:42Yeah it is. And I think the digital is great for the quick and the instant gratification but there's nothing like sitting down and reading cover to cover a magazine. I think it's also like creating value as well like I mean the Kultura website is you know it's a majority, a large majority of it is going to be payable. It's slightly different to Channel's Journal. Yeah. And I think that's again goes back to the community aspect of it. I think every single magazine should be 100 % payable. Really? I really don't. I think it's absolutely insane this isn't just my point of view that it was ever allowed for free and then everyone got used to that because it's online it must have cost nothing to make it could cost the same amount to make wasn't that the whole kind of thing behind Substack isn't that what it is yeah Substack you have to subscribe but it wasn't and a lot of people got very angry when content creators were going behind Substack but actually exactly I agree with you I think that it's a profession and it's not something that they hand out for free but then again if you look at I mean now we're going on to a whole conversation about media But you know, you look at like, you know, the three guys when they launched Vice, Buzzfeed, you know, they're not doing well.

22:46I mean, they're not doing well. I mean, like, it's kind of funny. It's gone back that way. You know, I think General's Journal, I mean, we've got our Clubhouse paywall content. I think this year there will be a bit more of a move to make more of it paywalled. Like all the stuff now going in print that comes out of General's Journal's paywall, because it's just, it costs money. It's taking time. But I don't think you need to justify that. No, I know. I think the main thing is you've got to make sure that you're having a good website where you've got to bring the reader along with it. But it's an experience in the same way that you put your time and energy into the print and the paper quality and everything.

23:19It's creating, and that's what I'm trying to do even in my own business is how do we recreate that luxury experience online? That's what the retailers and the publications should be focusing on. But it's just that the reader... Where places like Airmail, et cetera, do a really great job. I think the right type of people appreciate it. and that's actually the customers. Like you say, airmail has been a big success. There's things like the knowledge as well. Yeah. So, you know, like I think people are happy becoming more and more happy to pay for it. The newspapers seem to have worked their stuff out, you know, when it comes to the Times, New York Times.

23:50Yeah. Tortoise Media has done very, very well. Yeah. The problem is that everyone else has done it, but actually magazines at a certain level really haven't done it. And I don't understand why that is. There's that fear as well around, you know. Yeah. It's not. I think we're really, we're really, um. Yeah. Well, maybe we start guys, maybe we're the first. Yeah. Obviously like, I want that website to be a community. The next stage we'll be doing an app. An app? An app. Wow, that is modern. That's actually, that's like. That's like 2012 stuff. That is, that's a long time ago. We should make an app.

24:22What's the whole idea? Let's just do an app. No, but the whole idea is to have that direct relationship with the reader. You're not beholden to Google, you're not beholden to any of these third parties and see where we go. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. OK, so let's now talk about the big picture, grand visions of the future. If we can imagine a perfect Cultura cover star, who's the dream? Oh, my God. Can't say, because it's our next issue. Is it? We've nailed an issue, too. Next, too. No, well, Harry and I have to have this conversation. People sometimes say, people at the pub who don't really know what a magazine is, like oh who's your cover star they also always think we pay for cover stars yeah i know how much did you pay to have happy about them that is common that was pretty cool it was very good my point being that who's the perfect cultural who would be the face of culture if we had i mean i think i think it's a whole host of people yeah i also think it's it's different we actually can't say some names no ironically for me one of them would have been lauren I think she's a woman that epitomizes, and that's what's so exciting is having our first cover stuff for various reasons.

25:32I think one, she was incredibly successful in her own right. She broke glass ceilings for women. She changed the way that things were done. She's incredibly always spoken out about issues and certain topics. There's been a pioneer of being different, wearing trousers, doing all kinds of things when other women work. She's a great, and she's an 80 year old woman that is still actively working today and is celebrated. That, for me, as a woman, it's just ticking a lot of boxes there of someone that I see as iconic. Good answer. I think it's also finding people with proper stories to others. They're not just an actress, they're not just a musician, they're not just a businesswoman.

26:07Actually, how do they start out, where have they come from? There's so many amazing people that you actually get deep and start asking them questions, and then there's a whole different story behind it. I think there's obviously, I think we called it boss women right at the beginning, like women who knew where they were going. also I don't want all the you know we don't want all the cover stars to be actresses we also want to put some amazing female entrepreneurs on the cover which doesn't happen probably enough as Harry said you're going to see a lot of names that don't necessarily ring instant bells but you learn about their story and you're I mean we put a few of those in the first issue and I love that you know really learning it's about expanding one's circle you know we all know the same red carpet you know people that absolutely deserve to be there but who are the other stars who are the other unknowns I'm going to talk I'm going to do an exclusive there's an article that's been worked on at the moment for the next issue which is about F1 women in F1 F1's having a massive a massive rise at the moment there's so much viewership but there's also an amazing group of women behind some of these F1 teams whether that's be sponsors principals commentators commentators so suddenly we're doing a whole article celebrating that's a real good example yeah that's also where staff this is very interesting what Drive to Survive has done to female viewers of F1.

27:25And I mean, the third season has just been released and the amount of women in my life who binge watch it, who had zero interest in F1 and now actively follow F1 because of it. It's done wonders for the sport. It's incredible because it was the most male-dominated, I mean, that's the thing. Dweeby male sport and now it's a dweeby. Dweeby, God, I wouldn't have gone there. Dweeby. Do you know what I mean? As editor of The Gentleman's Journal, I mean you've had some of the great iconic men No, no, no Not through history as drivers Yeah, I don't know how I'm going to Yeah, you can't get We're keeping that Do not cut that I'm all meant like James Hunt Formula One fans are particularly geeky Ayrton Senna, James Hunt I mean literally I wouldn't call them dweebs, mate No, James Hunt is not a dweeb For Billy and Joe But Lewis Hamilton is And I want that on the record No, Lewis Hamilton is cool Lewis Hamilton is very, very cool And he's a Gentleman's General cover star I mean, no, no He is He's been the Gentleman's General I love how to see Harry's everything's crashing and landing in front of his own.

28:23Formula One. Historically, the fan base has been geeky male. Yeah, you're right about the fan base, you're right. Yeah. And now it's, it never needed to be that way. Obviously, it's an amazing dynamic. You've got out of that. You've got out of that. You've saved yourself. You've saved yourself. It's just. Absolutely. Not sure about the F1 fans listening to this. We've been a fan of the sport pre-drives to survive. Yeah. But no, I mean, that is, but you are right. That is a good example of how something's changed. How one part of culture can influence the huge other part of it. The same with, in lockdown, basketball, with the documentary on Michael Jordan, what was that called?

29:01The Last Dance, which again, having never watched basketball, it totally got me in. And as a woman, the chances of me watching basketball are often less than my male counterpart. So I think we can do that same thing in the stories that we tell. You know, whether it's about amazing skiers, snowboarders, jewelers, you know, you name it, people that aren't necessarily on the forefront of everyone's lips. It would be cool to change that somehow and shift the kind of commentary around it. That is a great goal. So who have we got doing things? So we're very lucky, actually, to have had quite a lot of amazing contributors for the first issue, whether that's Katie Grand, Bassie Chamberlain, Susan Bender, Candice Lake.

29:43I mean Ming Lu, I could keep going on, another 20 brilliant names. These are all names that we feel hugely and immensely proud of to be working with and names that have a huge impact in the world of journalism. Harry, I think that's the thing we feel most proud of, right, is the team that we've built. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, as you know, Jay, like Gentleman's Journal wasn't so easy right at the beginning. Nope. So, I mean, it's, you know, we were very much building that from absolute scratch this time around. Thanks, Joe, for all the hard work. Thanks, Joe, for all the hard work. The great thing about launching Cultura is it's been like you've learned from all your mistakes and we've launched this amazing, amazing group.

30:20And that's why I think all the content in the first issue, which I hope you agree, has come out how it has come out. It does feel very mature. When I opened it up, it doesn't feel like a first issue, which is a compliment. Does it not? It feels mature and established. I really like the party pages as well, by the way. The party pages? The cutouts much. Didn't you try and get rid of those from Gentleman's Journal? No, not at all. That's pretty much the only thing I care about. The only reason I work in this industry is because I want to one day be featured in the Gentleman's Journal. Have you not been featured?

30:53I'm sure. Every time I'm featured, whoever's picking the pictures, is it you? I do. I hate the pictures you put in me. Yeah, you do get angry about that. It's such a male perspective on things, like how I look. I hate it. No, I think party pages is good. I mean that's again like something we did with Journal's Journal that sadly magazines got read of. Do you remember how good Tatler Bystander was? Yeah, Hugo Bernan. It wasn't just celebrities, it was people you might know. And that was exciting. It felt like massive but also like really personal. You'd run into the newsagent, open up and see if you knew anyone.

31:27I think the Evening Standard used to do like great party pages. Yeah, London's Diary was the best spread in the Evening Standard by a long way. And that's why you sort of picked up the Evening Standard sometimes. No, you don't pick up the Evening Standard and you can't. Well, you can. If you do. Get it on Fridays. Yeah. Fridays, yeah. There's a massive hole. No, we're not. Joe's already plotting his next, isn't it? Let's just get on with Kultura first. Yeah. There's a massive hole for a grown-up London-centric magazine. I do have an idea. I've got an idea for a newsletter that I think might be quite good on that.