How to make it in Sephora with Ilia Beauty founder Sasha Plavsic

0:07Hello, welcome back to the Glossy Beauty Podcast, a show about the business of beauty and wellness. I'm your host, Glossy's West Coast correspondent, Lexi Lebsack. As everyone who listens to this podcast knows, Sephora is more than just a beauty retailer. Yes, Yes, it's one of the biggest with 2 ,700 global locations, which is more than Ulta Beauty, Mecca, Target, and Olive Young individually. But Sephora is also a brand builder, an innovator, and for many brands, a barometer of success, which is probably why it's notoriously tough to survive in the competitive world of Sephora. For today's episode, I sat down with a founder who has navigated the halls of Sephora with outstanding success.

0:56And today she's telling us all about launching, growing, thriving, overcoming obstacles, and scaling with Sephora, all without exclusivity. My guest today is Sasha Plavsik, the founder of Ilia Beauty, a 15-year-old makeup and skincare brand that has the number one mascara in Sephora, plus booming complexion, lip, skincare, and eye makeup businesses. Sasha is also one of the original architects of the Clean at Sephora program, or as she says, Sephora's clean beauty guinea pig. Ilya makes clean, prestige products and has diversified its footprint over the years to now include Amazon, Credo, Mecca, Revolve, Nordstrom, and as of last year, Ulta Beauty, which Sasha actually sees as a separate customer.

1:51There are so many great pieces of advice and a truly dynamic story in today's episode. So let's get right into it. Here is our episode with Sasha Plavsik, the founder of Ilya Beauty.

2:08Sasha, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Truly, truly my pleasure. Ilya is turning 15 years old this year. That's so exciting. Congrats. Thank you. Yeah, I can't believe it. And it's actually been 17 years since its inception, which is, that's a big piece of my life. You got a brand ready to go to college. Oh, I think that she's in college. She's advanced. Yeah, she's graduating college. I love that. Well, Sasha, if I could challenge you sort of right off the bat. And this longevity of the company is so impressive. And outside of products, because we know Ilya's products.

2:50You and I both know Elia's products are great. But outside of the products, you know, is there maybe one lesson or strategy or tactic or, you know, anything that you sort of can speak to about the longevity of the company? Oh, I think, you know, it's interesting when I look back on it. I have all these moments where I look back and there's different milestones and there's different challenges and different celebrations, different pitfalls. There's so many things, I think, that make it what it is. It's really a part of my life, you know, and it's a huge thread of my life. I would say that I think over the years, you know, what's kind of kept it going is a belief in me loving what I do.

3:34I think initially when I started this company, the idea came about in 2008, 2009, and there wasn't really anything on the market. And I hear people say that, you know, it started even several years ago, but really like 20 years ago. like 17 years ago, there was nothing in this category and nothing that really presented itself in the space. It was such a huge wide open opportunity. And I think to be able to really have years to play with that, like we didn't really get going until 2018. So I had pretty much almost a decade of time to screw up, make mistakes, run things really in a tight manner where operationally, the budgets were small because there was no fundraising.

4:18And it was still an error when you didn't necessarily need to do that. I think allowing myself to mold into the brand really helped create clarity as we grew into what it is that we do, who we are, and how we do it. And a passion for it and a curiosity still remain today. And I think those two things are very important in order to have longevity within a brand. I'd love to sort of set the table for this discussion and maybe get a quick snapshot on, you know, the scope and the size of the business today. Maybe we can start with sort of what are your best sellers and how many SKUs do you have roughly?

4:56Oh, the second question, I feel like I'm not confident answering anymore. Hundreds would be probably for the SKUs, but for best sellers, we have a three-bay at Sephora. So it's pretty much, it's actually not heavily loaded, but there's a couple hundred SKUs for sure. For bestsellers, we launched, they've launched, some of them are hero items that are core items that have been around for several years. So we have our Limitless Lash Mascara, which is the best-selling mascara at Sephora. I think we launched it in 2017 or 18. It took us three, four years to get the number one spot. And we've held that for three or four years now.

5:32So that's a real celebration. It's a mascara that was unknown, and we were able to break into the ranks of the greats. Not only is it number one at Sephora, I think it's number four in the country as a mascara overall, which is wild. You know, we're sitting amongst somebody. It is. And we're sitting amongst these giants and these huge names and little Ilya, you know, made it up there. And it's different. I think it is a point of difference to the other mascaras and something that the customer was looking for that was not being offered at the time. And we've really created a lot of loyalty with that product for a few reasons.

6:07And a lot of our brand values and core DNA are in that product. Super serum skin tint, say it five times fast. Skin tint, we call it. And it's a makeup skincare SPF. It's an SPF 40 in the US. And that was really concocted during 2015. I started trying to figure out how I could put on my moisturizer and my tint and my SPF all in one when I had this little baby and just wanting to put it all in one bottle. And we're really, a lot of our mission for what we do is makeup that makes your skin better. So all of the products are very much skin forward, whether it's hydration, soothing, redness reduction, definitely all safe for sensitive skin.

6:50We were able to claim that on every product now and safe for sensitive eyes. So there really is an ethos there to be able to take care of the skin in some ways and make sure that the products are really benefiting, not only how it looks, how it wears throughout the day, what happens to your skin when you wash it off. It's really a 360 approach to product design and product integration into your daily life. Is the majority of the revenue come from your Heroes or is it pretty well distributed once you get out of the tint and the mascara? It was coming from the Heroes. I would say we've had some really strong launches in the last couple of years, which has helped to diversify.

7:28We're actually really beautifully diversified and split from a business standpoint our eye stylus is the number one eyeshadow and that has exploded for us we have 20 shades really fun ones too that are like we're fun but wearable um we try and like take a lot of classics in color and put a twist on them so uh it's waterproof crease resistant it looks nice on mature lids sometimes when you put a shimmer on a mature lid, it can make the lid look more mature. So, you know, definitely a lot of the products are meant to stretch from a multi-generational aspect. So somebody who's 20 can wear it and look amazing.

8:06Somebody who's 60 or 70 can wear it and still like it can make them look youthful and fresh and like they're not really like it's just melting in with the skin. So yeah, I would say that one has really, you know, picked up. And then our face milk is another one, which is our skincare it does not get as much attention but it is outstanding and the face milk immediate redness reduction very cushiony structure it gives very lightweight moisture so if you're oily you can use it and just it's enough of a moisturizer if you're normally dry you may want to use our barrier build cream on top but the skincare i put so much effort into it because i had really bad skin and that was one of the reasons this brand was started i had a lot of acne so much fragrance and things, you know, and for our skincare, we really make sure we're doing a pH balance for wherever it's going, whether it's the eye or the face.

8:56And those are different pHs that are required, no fragrance, and that there's the clinicals to back it up. Our barrier build, you know, my little kid, she's got eczema, contact dermatitis, she's just been flaring all over her legs. And I had a steroid cream from the doctor. And it's so funny, I don't know why I didn't think about it as much. But I started using our barrier build cream, which has been tested in 18 months and up, and it's eczema, it has eczema seal, FDA, it's considered a drug really, approval. And within two days, the redness was gone. And it actually is completely, her skin and barrier are completely recovered and healed.

9:33And I stopped using the steroid cream. And it was just a moment for me that was so gratifying because it's like, yeah, we worked really hard on this to make sure that it could repair your barrier and look what it's doing to my baby's skin. She's seven, but she's my baby. And I feel really proud to know that the products are making a difference for the skin, you know, and to see her so happy because she was so embarrassed in the summer about her legs, to see her so happy towards the end of the summer with all that clearing up is like, it's just as gratifying to hear if a customer also experienced something beautiful with their skin after using our products.

10:04It really is like one of my reasons for why I do this. Sure. I love that story. You're obviously in Sephora. You entered Ulta as well, I believe two years ago. Where else can we see Ilya? Yeah, so Sephora for us, we've been with them. We were in a lot of boutiques to start out. So the brand was very boutique focused and we didn't go to Sephora for the first several years. So going to Sephora was really a game changer. And when we went there, that's when the business really took off. We also got funding at the same time. So like the timing of everything was great. We did help them launch the clean category.

10:36So when I was in that initial meeting, I think it was 2015 or 2016, they're like, we're gonna create this category called clean. You fit the DNA profile for that. and we want you to help us build out the makeup category. You're the guinea pig. Guinea pig, you're going to go first. So we actually worked together on the list and we were considered to be in the category that was launched. I think it was 2016, 17, whenever they launched it, we had a couple of SKUs out with them and we were that guinea pig in the makeup category. So that was a really fun thing to build alongside with them because if we think about many of the brands that have become successful in this space, many of them have started with Sephora and it is a partnership that has been beautiful and wild and fun and voracious you know over the years where we just we were able to grow together and the category was growing it was such an exciting time you know and now it's definitely stabilized and it's different today but um that whole rush with them it was we've been you know we've had such a long partnership with them after several years you know we decided to expand and we did go to Alta.

11:42Some brands go within a few years. We waited a very long time and both retailers are very important to us and we believe they do carry a different customer. So that really covers, I would say, from more of like many more doors, prestige, beauty, that covers that slot. Boutique retailers such as Credo, they've been supporting us since the very beginning. We're available there internationally in Australia and New Zealand. Mecca has over a hundred doors. So we are with Mecca Beauty. We've been there also for almost a decade. In the UK, we're with Space and K. I'm just trying to think. I'm sure there's many other retailers that, you know, Amazon.

12:21Sure. No, that's a really great snapshot there. You know, when I think about Ilya, I really do think of Sephora. I think that's the first thing that pops in and it's meant to be as, you know, very flattering, meant to be complimentary here. But it's not always easy to survive in Sephora, you know, if you had to sort of, yeah, if you had to summarize it, what's been the secret sauce behind not only surviving in Sephora, but thriving in Sephora? Yeah. I mean, like it can be a snake pit. You know, I think if you're not careful from a standpoint for yourself too, like what are you able to commit to as a brand?

12:57If they really want you to run, you have to be ready to run. You know, they're giving you an opportunity and you have to be ready for the opportunity. So luckily for us, they didn't want to run because the category was so new. It was like testing here, testing there to a point where our CEO at the time was like, okay. And she'd come from Two-Faced, Bobby Brown, bigger brands, you know, that she built up, but that were really running. And she's like, are we going to stay in the go-kart lane? Or am I like, are we going to get in the sports cart lane? Like, where are we going? And it really was a moment, I would say, 2019, 2020, where we started to see that momentum in the category.

13:35And how we built that partnership, you look at other greats out there who have built certain partnerships, you know, and it's, it is a partnership, you know, you have to be able to figure out how you do it together. You know, if any retailer were to ask for millions of dollars in marketing, you don't have that in revenue. I would say it's a no, like how can you be smart about growing your business and prepared for the growth. So that was another thing, you know, you have to be able to be prepared. You really have to have good operations. If you're going to do any brand changes, you do it before you scale.

14:05So if you want to change your logo, change your packaging, we went through a huge rebrand in 2019, right before we launched Sephora. And that was probably one of the best decisions we'd ever made. We'd already been around for several years and that brand design was done a decade prior. So it was time. And I think it gave us much more visibility and much more clout in doing that rebrand right before we had our big growth. So it's kind of, I would say like, you know, a perfect storm of what you need in order to succeed. To any founder out there listening, if you do not have a strong relationship with Sephora, that's okay.

14:38Hire somebody who does, you know, and hire somebody who's had the experience of working with them and who has a relationship and understand what it takes to scale a brand there. because if they know how to be a partner with them, generally Sephora will know how to be a partner with you in return. And it's that beautiful partnership that brings growth and opportunity to both sides of the coin. For Ilya, was that the CEO that you mentioned? Did she have the relationship with Sephora? She absolutely did. I was vulnerable enough in 2015 or 16 when I initially sat down with Alison Hahn, who was head of color over there for a long time.

15:15and I remember I said to her, I don't know how to do this. I'm not familiar with Sephora. This is a different, not only a different planet for me, it's a different galaxy in understanding how to do this. And I would like to do this. I really want to give it a fair shot, you know, and I'm, I'm brave enough to say that I don't have the experience there. Do you know somebody that does? And she said, you know what? I do. I know somebody for you. And that's how I met Linda Berkowitz, who she's retired now, but she was with me for eight years and became really a partner for me. She probably knows me better than my family.

15:52We just had a really great kismet connection. She's a strong operator. She has an understanding of creative and she's very good in sales. And I was more creative product. So we've kind of split the company down the middle, but still always aligned on decisions together. And we're really committed, you know, to making it work. And because of that relationship that we had that was well balanced between us and her strong relationship with Sephora and understanding how to grow a brand, it definitely attributed to the success of the brand in Sephora. Absolutely. You know, it was, I mean, you can't be successful without good product.

16:33If you don't have good product, it doesn't really matter how good your marketing is. You're not going to get a repeat buy. So, you know, product is first and we are product first company. We say product is king. A lot of people who know our product, they won't know the brand and they won't know me. And I'm okay with that. They come back and buy the product and they don't really know who I am or who the brand is. I'm okay with that. Although I think today people now know more about the brand and who the brand is. They still don't know about me as much though. I kind of like it that way. I mean, sometimes a lot of people say that the best thing you can be is anonymous.

17:05Being successful, but also being slight. You're not anonymous, but slightly anonymous. Like not. Yeah. I think it's cool to be quiet sometimes. I can be loud, I think, in certain moments. But I have two kids, you know. I've been doing this a long time. And I am out there. You know, like I'm out there almost every week. Next week, I'm in board meetings. We were just opening. I just saw our new office space. And only we have three little offices. And I got sent a video. our head of sales sent it to me last night and I was like you know what it's been 17 years like yes we've had an office in Laguna but there was only 30 people in 2020 and then we went more hybrid after COVID kind of lifted up and it's beautiful we worked with Studio DB for the interiors with who I worked with on my home as well they're out of New York and it's so fun like it's it's just it was so the team was really happy it feels really good there's lots of color you know we didn't do one big office, we have three smaller spaces because we're stretched between both coasts and also a little bit in Orange County, so in LA.

18:08So it was just such a delight, I think, to see it because I didn't want to spend the money on it before either. You know, all of the money really went towards the business and the culture and the space. Now we're able to, you know, put money into the space and make sure that we have a beautiful space for people to come into a couple days a week. that's so nice building that culture is so challenging but so important um i want to go back for one second you mentioned that um you know going into sephora thriving a sephora can feel a little bit like a snake pit what do you what do you mean by that yeah i don't mean it in a negative connotation i would say like you i think people can get really scared um about about the opportunity if it's in front of them.

18:54And at the end of the day, if you don't, you kind of have like one shot, you know, you have one shot more or less in order to prove that you can do what they would need you to do. Because if they're investing in you and giving up space for you to use, you do have to perform and you do have to find a way to make it work and hopefully listen to what they know and best practices and have somebody on your team that works with them to achieve like, what is the plan to get to where we need to go? And I think there's, you know, a lot of people, not a lot, but some founders have come to me and said like, oh, they asked for this, they asked for too much.

19:32And did they, or did it, did you not really have the conversation with them on how to do it? You know, and I don't think it's, it's, it's in relation just to them as a retailer. I think in general, in relations in life, you know, how do you have a conversation to get to where you want to go? And again, if they want to move quickly and that's how they're used to moving and you don't have the experience of doing that with them in the past, it can be, yeah, I feel like you can kind of be taken down, you know, and perhaps drained of resources because you didn't plan accordingly. You didn't have enough inventory.

20:03I mean, growth can be painful. And I think with them, it can be the most painful because they can probably grow you faster than anybody out there. And I want to be honest. And that is an opportunity that you cannot pass up. And again, you might, you only have, if you only have that one shot, What does it take to do it right? And they're great partners in being able to tell you what you need, but you have to be able to ask for what you need. That's really great advice. So on the outside here, so many brands want this opportunity. So many brands want that shot to get into Sephora. And some of the things that we hear on our end about the challenges there are constant NPD, so new products, and then eventing as well.

20:45But what, and I don't know if you would agree with that or not, but I'm curious, what are the other challenges in going into Sephora and surviving in Sephora so well, like you have? Well, I think it's a different time. You know, when we started with them, it was almost a decade. It was a decade ago. So today I cannot say, you know, because I'm not in the other, I'm not in those shoes of some of the other brands that do have to have more capital and more money. And it is, I think, a much more competitive space and there's different tiers. You know, we're not a celebrity brand. If you're a celebrity brand, And generally, you can have quite a tidal wave when you come in there.

21:19And then it can recede quite quickly later as well, a few years later. So I think it just depends. It's unique to each brand. To me, nobody will build a brand better than Sephora. I think that they still have the capability to do that. With social media and everything today, there's a lot more influence now, you know, from influencers and other people, ambassadors of the brand. than there was, say, in the past. But I don't know. I think it's a partnership, right? So my advice is if you need to raise money because you have the potential to go grow, raise some money. If you're very small, maybe you don't raise a lot because if you're going to really grow, you can raise more again a year or two later, even if it's a year later.

22:10And if you've already experienced growth, let's say you've doubled over that last year, you don't have to give away as much equity at once. So from a standpoint of raising capital, be smart and you can run things tightly, lean on lines of credit, bridge loans, things like that, in order to get to where you need to go. As a Canadian who is living in the US, I did not have the ability to get big loans. So we were very thoughtful about how, like to a point where I'm saying we didn't have a beautifully designed office, you know, because it's where does the money go? Where does the money go? It's one thing to have an image of what you're doing.

22:41It's another thing to really be doing it. And I think, yeah, I think for Sephora, they can't ask for a lot. And that's okay. That's their job. And they're doing right by their job, I think, as a brand. What can you give? And what does that opportunity look like? How much can you afford to put towards marketing? Can you split them? Is it a shared partnership where they're putting 50 % and you're putting 50 %? Somebody on your team needs to know how to ask those questions to really strengthen in the partnership because it is the brand's job to come and do and ask those things and find kind of the sweet spot in between that makes sense for your business.

23:21And that will help, you know, grow, grow theirs and yours at the same time. Yeah. When your ex-CEO left, Linda, the one who was really like the glue in this original Sephora relationship, who took over that relationship? And, you know, are you bringing in new staffers to navigate each retailer? Like, what does that look like internally for you? My head of retail marketing, my VP, she's been with me for seven years. Okay. So she's still there. And I think the relationship looks great. I, you know, I have a longstanding relationship with them. I was in the kitchen meeting a week ago and market meeting.

24:03And it was really exciting. I mean, it was exciting because we have a really strong ear. Not every year is as strong as next year is going to be, but we worked really hard on it. They were excited. We're excited. So I think it's, yeah, the relationship matters. It's a relationship. How do you want to treat a relationship? You kind of want to treat it with a bit of love. You know, some people, they go in there and they're nervous and they think, oh, how do I do this? And it's ask questions, align on things. Like, do we think this is going to be a top five foundation or a top five mascara? Or like, what can we, what are, what are best practices that we can do to get to be top five in this?

24:46You know, there's those, all those questions should be asked. Hey, we're, you know, we're in the process of formulating this. Like, can you guys tell us like what you've learned from other people that have kind of gone down this pathway? Did they see success when they talked about that? You know, were there issues with this? that is a relationship because they know, you know, you will know your brand and what is right for your customer. They will know what has worked in their environment. And that is the beauty of the two coming together. And you have to have an emotional EQ around that. And I do believe that our team to answer your question really does.

25:19And we care about them greatly. And I believe that there's great care in return. Even if we did go, you know, to another retailer, we're looking to see how we can ensure both retailers such Ulta and Sephora have their own lane, you know, that makes sense for them and their customer and that we can foster growth in both of them. What do in the kitchen meetings at Sephora look and feel like nowadays? They probably look the same to me as they did 10 years ago because I like to run them a certain way. But in the kitchen really means that you show them new developments that are coming a couple years ahead.

25:56When we started, we were not even a year ahead because when you're younger as a brand, you generally have to move faster and you can move faster because you only, you're not dealing with very much. You know, it's kind of like the bigger the ship, the longer it takes to turn. So now when we want to make a turn, you know, we're three years ahead in what we're kind of talking about and what we want to do. So we present formulas, we discuss, you know, what they like what's working you can't really ask like are all the other brands doing this you can't say like are you seeing is this is this something unique that you're seeing or is it something similar is there a way that we could make it more unique that you feel would give us a nice like point of difference or positioning that works for our brand and our story in your store um so there's a lot of those types of questions and uh shades um you know and we won't necessarily take every suggestion.

26:49It is a partnership and a collaboration, but it's really nice to get their point of view and they know what's coming because they're seeing everything else. So it's, yeah, it's a great way to get ahead and see what they're excited about as well. You know, and then as we move on in development, some of the developments are so new, it's, you know, like how far do we go? So, but it's, it's just really bringing them in early so that there is again, that like built, let's build this together attitude. You mentioned earlier that the Ulta and the Sephora customer are different, which really is interesting to me.

27:23Who are the customers and how are they different? I would say, I mean, people could argue against that, but to me, Ulta has doubled the amount of doors. And I would say their volume is less though. That's pretty much across the board for most brands. Sephora is more metropolitan in some ways and cosmopolitan. It's very like, it's definitely more in the cities to me, you know, and trend focused. I do think that there is probably a younger customer there. That being said, there is a lot of focus around millennials and Gen X for both Alta and Sephora. There is a lot of later, like older millennials or Gen Xers that are shopping at Alta.

28:18And they have so many more locations and areas that we were not able to reach before. So to be able to go in and touch and see the product in some of these areas in the middle of the United States is really important because I do think the physicality and that interaction with the product to shade match even. Yes, you can be shade matched online. Is it right all the time? No. Doesn't matter how good I think it's going to get. There's nothing that really beats going in store and seeing something. Yeah. You know, like it's like, people want to be tactile. Stop trying to shade match me with the computer program.

28:50It doesn't work. People want to touch. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's like when you're at a, you know, my friend just got a puppy and it's like, you want to touch the puppy. You don't just want to look at the puppy, you know? So you, it's this, you want to play with the product. You want to feel the texture. You want to see if the color shifts slightly on the skin. You want to know the weight of it on your skin. Like all those little things matter and can only be experienced in real life. So the, you know, the opportunity with Alta is yes, to expand the business and also to ensure that we have access points that are different than where, you know, it's sure.

29:25Is there some overlap with some places? Yes. But in general, I would still argue that there's, it isn't an identical customer. There's some overlap, but it's definitely not apples for apples. Is your assortment the same or is it very different and how is it different? I would need to get more data on that, but a lot of the best sellers are consistent. So our heroes resonate around the world. It doesn't really matter for the most part what country it is. Our heroes are heroes, which means the product is the product. And the markets I would say and are generally like, you know, would those heroes work over in Asia?

30:02Maybe not, you know, just, I think the demographic for the markets that we're in makes sense. But I would say, I'm just trying to think specifically, yeah, for the product mix, we do see some products that would be skewed towards a more mature customer performing better at Ulta. So that, I mean, that just goes to show that then there probably is a more mature customer shopping at Ulta for us. Sasha, looking ahead at 2027 and maybe even beyond, I almost asked you the next 15 years. And then I was like, I feel like that's an awful question. But what's the future look like for Ilya? What's your vision?

30:41We are going to keep making makeup that makes your skin better. It's very common. Like when people ask me, it's an elevator pitch. What do you do? I make makeup that makes your skin better, you know, and skincare too. But predominantly it's makeup. I think that that always stays at the core of who we are. We definitely have different pillars of art and architecture. So the branding that we do, the collabs, all of that, the storytelling that we're looking to do. I'm really excited about some of the storytelling from our recent launch with ThruLine or Eyeliner. It was very human, I think, you know, and the products.

31:20You know, I'm so proud of the product development team for how much work they've put in in order to ensure that we have, you know, what we launch, it has to be one of the best in the category. Because otherwise it's too competitive, you know, and you don't get that repeat. So I think for us, we're going to stick to what we know how to do, not change who we are, but make sure that we can also continually inspire, you know, every generation that comes along. This is really, I think we were one of the first to really be a multi-generational brand in that clean space where it was really the millennial and her mom.

31:55You know, and now we're kind of looking at like even my daughter, like a gen alpha and the millennial coming in and shopping and how, you know, I think of Clinique when I was growing up and how my mom brought me. And can we be a brand that kind of embodies that ethos of multi-generational and word of mouth from like the grandma to the aunt to the cousin to the friend? And I think for us, that would just be a beautiful yellow brick road to follow for the next 15 years. Sasha, this has been great. Thank you so much for sharing all these pearls of wisdom and congrats on all the success 15 years. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

32:35and thank you for listening to this episode of the glossy beauty podcast if you enjoyed it please leave us a rating and a review on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you're listening and for even more coverage on the beauty industry and more please visit glossy.co slash beauty You