Why Allure Best of Beauty is 'the only seal that matters' and how to get your product on it

0:08Lexy Lebsack: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Glossy Beauty Podcast, a show about the business of beauty and wellness. I'm your host, Glossy's West Coast correspondent, Lexi Lebsack. Today's episode is for all the beauty and wellness brands out there that would love to get a fantastic placement in what's arguably the most influential consumer beauty publication on the market today, Allure. The first print issue of Allure published back in 1991, and despite a good chunk of its competition disappearing since then, Allure has weathered the media storm, evolving and growing to maintain its relevance through the years.

0:46Lexy Lebsack: One thing is for sure, beauty media would not be what it is today without Allure. And for the past five years, it has been led by editor-in-chief Jessica Kruhl. Jess and I actually worked together in a past life at Refinery29, and I've also written for Allure a bit since she came aboard before my time at Glossy. So I thought this would be a great way to have a candid conversation for our business listeners. Today, September 17th, is a very big day for Jess and the entire Allure team. That's because Allure is announcing the winners of its Best of Beauty Awards, its Hallmark Awards franchise that anoints the best products with its coveted Best of Beauty seal.

1:26Lexy Lebsack: You already know that licensing Allure's Best of Beauty seal to use in marketing or packaging can be a powerful differentiator in the market. Jess and I chatted about the awards, plus what brands need to know to better work with Allure's editors, the things Jessica wishes brands understood about their process at Allure, how brands and publicists can stand out from the crowd, and so much more, all in hopes to better prepare you for next year's awards. We're going to get into all of this and so much more. Here is our episode with Jessica Kruhl, Editor-in-Chief of Allure.

2:07Jessica Cruel: Hi, Jess. Welcome to the program. Thank you for having me, Lexi. It's so good to be here with an old friend, old coworker.

2:14Lexy Lebsack: I know. I was going to say, we've known each other for many, many years now. We were at Refinery29 together. You were Deputy Beauty Director back in 2018, and I was a Senior Editor. And then you joined Allure in 2019 as Features Director, then Content Director. And in 2021, you became Editor-in-Chief. And now you're celebrating five years as Editor-in-Chief this month.

2:36Jessica Cruel: I know five years, it flew by so quickly, but it's been an exciting five years and I'm really excited about all of the things that we've been able to accomplish. And I'm shocked that I lasted five years. I thought I was going to break it before now, but I haven't broken it yet.

2:57Lexy Lebsack: No, and you've been doing so much and evolving the brand so much. And we're going to get into all of that about all of the amazing work that you've been doing. But this episode is timed to Allure's Best of Beauty Awards. And so I thought it was really a perfect time to give our business listeners sort of an insider's guide to Allure. And yeah, let's start with the awards. So I know that I know everyone is very familiar who's listening, but what's sort of your elevator pitch for the Best of Beauty Awards?

3:28Jessica Cruel: When I think of Best of Beauty, I think so much of the way that the beauty industry has ballooned. If you walk into a drugstore or if you walk into an Ulta or Sephora, it can be so overwhelming to know what to get, right? There's just so much product, so many options, so much marketing copy, right? You can never really know what's going to be right for you and what's going to be worth your money. And so that is why Best of Beauty exists. It is a marker to help you guide you through that experience and help you understand what we feel as the editors of Allure who have so much experience are the best products out there.

4:13Jessica Cruel: And so you can be sure that when you pick up a product with our red seal or one that's on our list, that that's a product that's been vetted and tested and is going to give you results.

4:23Lexy Lebsack: Yeah, there are so many beauty awards programs in the industry, just everywhere you turn. And Allure has managed to still be that sort of holy grail seal. Why do you think that it's endured for so long?

4:39Jessica Cruel: Yeah, well, someone once told me we're the only seal that matters. And I promise that was a quote from someone else, not from me. But, you know, I like to use it. One, this year we're celebrating 30 years, okay? So this award started in 1996 before. That's why we still had dial up. It's before, you know, these big retailers were taking over. It's before Amazon. It's before all of these things. And so there's a longevity to the trust, right, that I think is really important. I also think because we are, that red seal is so noticeable, I think it's one thing that really sets us apart at shelf. You know, the people being able to see it on packaging, it has a lot of brand recognition.

5:31Jessica Cruel: And I also like to believe we test the same way they did in year one. You know, so the trust is still there. There are some awards that are out there that you have to be on a certain retailer to receive them. Or, you know, there's a lot of lists that are pay for play, that you have to sign up to be an advertiser in order to even get one. None of that is true of the Best of Beauty list. And one of my favorite things is when I'm out in the wild and someone is using a product and they're like, oh, my gosh, I love this product. This is the best product. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's a winner. And I think what really keeps it having that reader trust is the fact that we have results.

6:14Jessica Cruel: You buy something with a seal. You love that something that keeps you going back to things with a seal. You know, so I'm really proud that I think people are experiencing good, having good experiences with products that have the seal.

6:28Lexy Lebsack: How have the awards sort of evolved or grown specifically since you took over? Yeah.

6:34Jessica Cruel: I mean, in the five years that I have been here, I think one of the biggest changes is that we now have people paid to submit products. And I think that was, I thought it was gonna be more controversial than it was. But, you know, we did that because there is so much product. This year, we tested 5 ,568 products, right? That's how many things we had submitted. And so I'll be honest, having people pay is part of me like, please submit less.

7:09Lexy Lebsack: Like only submit the actual best.

7:13Jessica Cruel: Yeah.

7:13Lexy Lebsack: Don't just throw something at the wall. We don't have time for that.

7:16Jessica Cruel: Right. And partly it's so that we can make sure that we are testing the best, what the companies think are really the best. So that we can get that down to the best. But, you know, I think that's one of the big changes. But also, you know, every year the awards morphs based on what is needed in the market. You know, I think that's something that people don't really understand is, you know, when I first started in 2021, we had like seven highlighters winning. This year we've got like one.

7:52Lexy Lebsack: Yeah, yeah.

8:22Jessica Cruel: first launched the awards in 1996 to now, the amount of winners has really changed. You know, in that first year, there were 234 winners.

8:31Lexy Lebsack: Okay.

8:32Jessica Cruel: And it took them three months to test, right? Now this year, we're going to have 319 winners and it took us nine months to test.

8:40Lexy Lebsack: Wow. So it feels like it's even more thorough or is that just because there's so many more applicants?

8:45Jessica Cruel: Well, I do think there's a lot more product, but it's also because, you know, one of our most popular categories is skin. And we know to test a skincare product, you got to give it time. And so we take that time to test. And there's a lot of logistics that goes in and we're very cognizant. You know, we have two submission times, both in the winter, in November, you can submit and then in January, you can submit because we are trying to make sure that we are testing as much as necessary. Right. And also the categories like clean and breakthrough, just take a little bit more work. Like we're looking at clinical data and research.

9:23Jessica Cruel: We're looking, we're sending those to cosmetic chemists for ingredient downloads and research. We're also sending it to pros to use in their real life. So we just are taking that much more time with the products to make sure that we are getting the best.

9:42Lexy Lebsack: I remember when we were at Refinery and we had awards and we would have one editor test a category and then they would kind of stay within that if I remember correctly. How does it sort of get dispersed now amongst your team?

9:55Jessica Cruel: Yeah. So obviously we test a lot of product all year round, but for Best of Beauty, when you sign up to be a Best of Beauty tester, the first thing you do is take a little profile quiz, right? And this is something I -

10:10Lexy Lebsack: And these are your editors or these are consumers?

10:11Jessica Cruel: These are my editors. So these are my editors. And in addition to my editors, you know, friends of the brand within the building and, you know, those type things. So when you fill out this profile, it asks you things like hair type, skin type, but also some of the products that you love to use. Like I always say, I'm a big Essence user. I use Essence every day. I'm a big red lipstick wearer, liquid lipstick wearer. Those are kind of my categories that I always use. Then our team tabulates who should go with what and assigns categories. Obviously, we do our best to get people categories that they use most often, right?

10:52Jessica Cruel: And then at least three people test each category. So there's not just one person making the decision. Three people have to align on what they feel is the best. And because our list is, it's not like the best of all time, but it's the best right now for this year. One of the first questions we ask is, is what's winning this year better than what won last year? Because you do have products that win again and again and again. And in part, that's because they're just so darn good. They stay in our vanities all year round. And when a new batch of submissions come, we're like, nope, still that same old thing that we love, right?

11:33Jessica Cruel: So I think that is something that I love about the awards is that we test, but every year we always say, is it better than what won last year?

11:43Lexy Lebsack: I love that. For brands that want to submit maybe for next year's awards, how can a brand stand out?

11:51Jessica Cruel: You know, I think it's not so much about standing out. It's about not getting eliminated early. right because if you think about you know you could have 50 serums to test and really the first line of getting into an editor's hand even is like is your website together like I know a lot of indie brands submit and we love it when an indie brand wins randomly but if you have like a janky website or your instagram's kind of like icky or you know these are things that we look at as that first line. And then the second line is the packaging, right? You know, I'll never forget an assistant on the team.

12:33Jessica Cruel: It was her first year testing Vested Beauty, which is so hilarious because every first timer signs up for way too many categories. And I'm always like,

12:42Lexy Lebsack: the newbies are taking it again. It's a lot of work. It is a lot of work to test products for awards. It's so much work. And I remember someone was like, I signed up for like 20 categories.

12:53Jessica Cruel: I I was like, oh, you idiot.

12:57Lexy Lebsack: You're done. You're toast, okay? But I think packaging is another big barrier.

13:07Jessica Cruel: So she was testing, I think it was eyelashes, false eyelashes. And she's a big false eyelash wearer. And I watched her for two minutes try to open the packaging for the false eyelashes.

13:19Lexy Lebsack: And I said, you know what?

13:21Jessica Cruel: You might as well put that in the trash because it's not going to win. Right. Yeah. And so I think things like this are things that you can button up before you submit so that you make it into the bags to make it home. Right. Because we have so many products to test. Right. These are things that I'm like easy eliminations because we test like consumers. And if consumers can't figure out how to open the packaging, then baby, this is not the best of beauty.

13:53Lexy Lebsack: Yeah, it's so true. It's like brands have to see the forest through the trees here. It's like, what are the obstacles that are preventing someone from – it's like, sometimes I'll think I'll see a package or I'll see a product. And I'm like, it's not even telling me what it's doing. Like, it's just – it's so high level that it's like, what is this? What are we doing?

14:12Jessica Cruel: Yes, exactly that. Okay, that makes sense. But, you know, everything that comes in that, you know, has good packaging, has good websites, we divvy up and we test. And I think that's one of the reasons why you get indie brands winning kind of out of the blue sometimes. And the other thing that I really like about our process is, of course, we have those three core testers. But when we go to decide what the winner is, the whole team is in the room. So it's not just those three people. it's a group of people to be like, oh, well, you know, this thing I also love, or, you know, these are some products we should also consider, or is it better this, like, you know, if five people in the room are like, actually, this is my favorite, then we might say, okay, let's figure that out as well.

14:57Jessica Cruel: You know, in addition to the other ones that we love. We often go back and retest, recall in near the end of testing in order to make sure that we really have the best products.

15:10Lexy Lebsack: And has what you're looking for changed at all? Or do you sort of like sit with the same general criteria year over year? I think that our criteria are pretty much the same.

15:25Jessica Cruel: I think one thing that's really important is, you know, ease of use. I think so many things now are way too complicated. They try to make it too complicated. We've had many a bathroom shower ruined by things that were not well thought out. Right. I think also ever more important is how it works for many different people. Right. When we test foundations, you know, if a foundation only has 10 shades, that can't win Best of Beauty. And that's something that might have been OK when we first launched the list 30 years ago. But now that's something that we really consider. Shade range is a really important part of what we award.

16:11Jessica Cruel: You know, there is a really important responsibility we have to the reader to make sure that if I'm giving you tips or a blush or a foundation that you feel that you can go find one that's right for you. So it's a little bit different with hair. I think also the hair category is one that has ballooned, but mostly because we make sure to do it by hair type, right? Coily hair is different than fine hair and straight hair. So we make sure that those categories are covered. So those are some things that I think are really important as we like go through these testing elements.

16:50Lexy Lebsack: Okay. So at the end of the process, you pick your winners. What do most winners do with the seal? and it's a licensing thing, right? They're allowed to use it in some capacities. Yeah. And how do most brands use it? Yeah.

17:04Jessica Cruel: So look, I think this is the part that gets more in the sales side that I don't really have as much to do with, right? But the seal can be licensed. So you can put it on your packaging. You can put it on your social media. You can put it in ads. And that's because we know from research that we've done that that seal helps that product move, right? We know that when people see that seal, it's more likely to be purchased than the thing that's sitting right next to it. So that seal has power. And so what we do is the winner's list comes out and then the brands that win have the opportunity to license the seal.

17:43Jessica Cruel: They license the seal for about three years. And then the license is up. You can't renew. You can only renew it for three years. And then you have to win again in order to get it again.

17:55Lexy Lebsack: Oh, that's smart. So if you see a seal somewhere, they've won in the last three years.

18:00Jessica Cruel: They've won in the last three years. Right. So like it's 2026. You won't see something with a 2019 seal out there. Because that doesn't help the reader. You know, something from seven years ago, you're going to be like, is this still the best? No, it's not. We've tested again. Right. So that's one of the things that's really important is you can only use that seal for three years, but you could also use it for fun things. Like we've had Best of Beauty cakes. Haley Bieber did a Best of Beauty cake one year. We've had Best of Beauty blankets. So there's many ways that brands that win can use a seal, but you have to win to unlock the opportunity.

18:35All right.

18:36Lexy Lebsack: Well, moving on beyond Best of Beauty for a moment here, you know, when brands want to get into Allure, when they want to connect with you, when they want to connect with your team, is there anything that you wish more beauty brands, wellness brands knew about Allure or understood about your process and your team's process?

18:54Jessica Cruel: You know, I think the world has changed drastically, you know, when it comes to digital and social and influencer, right?

19:03Lexy Lebsack: Everyone is like, this launches tomorrow. Can you write about it? Yeah, we get that.

19:08Jessica Cruel: No, I can't. And I think it's really important to let people know that the soonest you can get me the product, the better. And even though I might not have a print magazine with print lead times, the reason why I still need product in my hands as soon as possible is because what I provide to the reader is actual proof of testing. Right. So if you are launching a skincare product, then you want to get it to me at least two months in advance so that I can try it as a part of my routine for at least 28 days and I can see the effects of that product. And then when I write about it, then I can give the reader that real life feedback.

19:47Jessica Cruel: Right. And I think that's something that people really confuse about what we do here. You know, and honestly, I think some people think that my job is PR. My job is not PR. And I want everyone to know that. What I do is I help the reader determine what brands, what products are the most important to them right now, what is going to be interesting to them. And when we do cover product, we want to test it before we give any information to the reader. And I think that's so important. It's our point of difference as Allure. If you want to do something that's more business forward, more launch forward, there are a lot of B2B publications that do that.

20:28Jessica Cruel: I don't serve the consumer in that way. We had a launch recently, a brand launch, and, you know, we did a story on the launch, but then we're going to do another story about trying the product, right? And the story on the launch was more just about the science that we had access to. Right. And so I just think it's it's really important that people know the best stories come from when we get to try the product.

20:55Lexy Lebsack: Yeah.

20:55Jessica Cruel: And trying the product takes time because what I do is I have multiple editors trying product. Like we have a review coming. I have four editors trying a product that takes time. Yeah. And so I can't give you a review unless you give me the product and let me do what I need to do for my reader. Yeah.

21:15Lexy Lebsack: What kind of content, what mediums, what topics, what's doing best for Allure right now?

21:22Jessica Cruel: Right now, we're thinking so much about aesthetics. Like, if you think about it, if you started reading Allure in 1991 when it launched and you were 20, You're 55 now. Okay. So as we grow up with our reader, aesthetics has become a natural conversation. It was always a part of the Allure DNA, but it's become a bigger part of what we cover now because, you know, everybody's thinking about a little injectable and also the proliferation of med spas. We've done great investigative reporting on med spas and how they have just ballooned across the United States. It's really important that we are serving the reader on that realm and making sure that they know things to ask, treatments that are new, treatments that are safe, and things that they should keep in mind if they're deciding to take that step as a part of their beauty routine.

22:25Jessica Cruel: So I would say aesthetics is a huge part of what we have taken on. And in line with that, we talk a lot about mature beauty. You know, it's not sexy per se. Well, I like to think it's still sexy, but really helping women as they are aging powerfully and beautifully to find the products that are right for them. So these are two areas that we're seeing a lot of growth in. And recently we've actually gotten more into what we like to call news plus. So it's like what I call it like to call next day news. You know, we used to do something like that refinery to like beauty news. Sure. There's, you know, occasionally some beauty news, but we like to take another day to do some unique reporting and get that out there.

23:17Jessica Cruel: Right. So it could also be an op ed. We have a lot of more opinion content than we used to have. Val Monroe, who's a very longtime beauty journalist, she's one of our opinion columnists. And she's always got things to say about what she sees on the red carpet or new technologies. So these are ways that we are bringing a lure into this new generation that's very run by personal voices, personalities, and things like that. I think that's really important and also growing with our audience. Yeah.

23:53Lexy Lebsack: It's so refreshing to hear you talk about appealing to mature women because it feels like, oh, in the beauty industry every day, we're just coming back. Who's the youngest? How can we get these 14-year-olds to like something? It's like staying with the women, especially the women and the men who have the real spending power right now, truly.

24:11Jessica Cruel: And it's also something that I think is really important because, you know, we do surveys with our readers once a year at the very least. And one thing that they always tell us is that they want to see more real people, right? And real people that are their age. And that was direct feedback from my reader. And so I said, okay, how can we do that? How can we help them? Because unfortunately, a lot of marketing in the beauty industry is pointed towards that younger person or towards that older person who looks perfect. Right?

24:46Lexy Lebsack: It's so true. It's like, yeah, everybody started putting 60-year-olds in their campaign, but this is the most sleek, wrinkle-free 60-year-old person I've ever seen in my life, you know?

24:57Jessica Cruel: So true. And it's so funny because me and my creative director have this little battle sometimes. I'm always like, okay, we need to have, I want to make sure that we have representation of every age group in this shoot. And she's like, yes. And she will bring me that pristine 70-year-old who looks 20. And I'd be like, mm.

25:15Lexy Lebsack: I don't know any 70-year-olds that look like that.

25:17Jessica Cruel: This isn't quite what I was thinking, okay? And so I just think it's really important that we give the reader what she's asking for, which is to see herself in the content, right? And I think that's one of the things that I think is most important to me. When I became editor-in-chief of Allure, I wanted people to feel seen in the content, whether that's Black women with melanin edit. But also in our commerce content, our editors are creating UGC that goes in the commerce content. So it can feel like you know who from our team has tested the product and given it this allure approval. That's important.

25:53Jessica Cruel: So now we really want to make sure that people can see themselves in our content.

25:58Lexy Lebsack: Jess, you've been in the beauty industry for a really long time. Yeah, 15 plus years. What is most exciting? What are you excited about right now in the beauty industry? And this can be categories, ingredients, topics. It can be anything. Like what's sort of exciting to you right now?

26:16Jessica Cruel: I think the thing that is exciting to me right now is the fact that everyone is very educated. We always say this about the beauty reader, but when I scroll through my social media feeds, I see more about facelifts and trips to Korea to get work done. and, you know, exosomes and, you know, peptides and all of this. And that excites me because I see a huge opportunity. There is so much misinformation out there, right? And I think as our industry leans more and more into wellness, full body, holistic beauty, there is such a need for a brand like Allure because there's a lot of bullshit. out there.

27:13And I think, you know, as someone who runs this brand, it excites me to see the

27:21Jessica Cruel: opportunity that we have to really serve the reader in a new way. Because obviously people know us for pointing them to the right products via our seal and things like that. But really, we can help people cut through all the marketing nonsense, all the pseudoscience, when it comes to these new, exciting treatments on the market and longevity protocols and supplement stacks. Like I think we have a great opportunity to cut through all of that with great journalism and just truth, which is what we do here at Allure. Yeah, so true.

28:00Lexy Lebsack: Okay. I've got two more questions for you. One more is I forgot one at the Best of Beauty Awards. So let's talk about next year. What is the deadline for the next one? How much does it cost and how can they submit?

28:12Jessica Cruel: Oh, so this is information I do not have because we have not decided yet. So, you know, we are just trying to get to September 17th right now.

28:22Lexy Lebsack: Okay, fair, fair, fair enough. Like, please let us get to September 17th.

28:26Jessica Cruel: But there is somewhere a spreadsheet that I'm supposed to be looking at in the next couple of weeks about next year's submission. So I can't tell you that. I don't know that quite yet, but I will know soon.

28:37Lexy Lebsack: Okay. That's kind of the equivalency of when you're interviewing a brand leader and they just came out with this huge thing and you're like, so what's next? And they're like, this, this is what we're doing now. It's like, can I get to September 17th first?

28:50Jessica Cruel: Yeah, no, it's so true. But you know, I think one thing that is also very interesting about how Best of Beauty has changed over the last, you know, 30 years is it's now a full year project for the team. You know, so the list will drop September 17th. The event, we now have a consumer facing event on October 17th, which is where the reader can come and interact with the brands and the products that have won Best of Beauty, but also with the founders and the makeup artists from those brands and get treatments. And, you know, I'm really excited about this event that we started. It's year four. So this is one of my things that we've done around Best of Beauty.

29:37Jessica Cruel: And Best of Beauty has had an event for decades. So I think the first event that they had was in like 2001. And it was like a marketing party. You know, it was a breakfast for all the executives that are taking home Best of Beauty awards because it was a big accomplishment for them and their teams, right? But we have changed that in the last four years to be a reader-centric experience that allows the readers to take home big gift bags of products, of Best of Beauty award-winning products, but also to have one-on-one interactions with dermatologists, estheticians, makeup artists, to hopefully, what I hope, learn about themselves, right?

30:20Jessica Cruel: And it's not one of those events where you just line up, you play the game, and you get the product. Sure. It's more of an event where you line up, still got to line up. You sit down and you talk with someone and you say, okay, I'm sitting at, you know, Elta MD is one of the brands that have supported us since year one and they're coming back again. You sit at the Elta MD booth, you talk to a dermatologist and you figure out what sunscreen is right for you. And I think that's such a unique experience because all we want is to personalize this list for people. You know, we recognize that there are 319 products.

30:57Jessica Cruel: That even in itself can feel overwhelming.

31:00Lexy Lebsack: Very overwhelming.

31:01Jessica Cruel: So we're thinking of new ways to how we can even personalize the list even more for readers. And I think this event is one way that we do that. And we give people those hands-on opportunities to learn about their skin, their hair, their makeup needs. And I'm really proud of what we've built. And also this year at the event, we have, you know, Allergan there who's going to be doing Neurotoxin and Filler for our VIP Plus attendees. So it's really a very grown up event. And I'm really excited about the community that we get to see in person whenever we have it. So one of the things that I'm most proud of is that, you know, we have made Best of Beauty consumer centric, reader centric.

31:44Jessica Cruel: It's all about what they need. It's all about the experience that we can give them. Mm-hmm.

31:48Lexy Lebsack: I mean, Jess, that's a prime example of how you are bringing Allure into the next generation, into the next era. And a perfect segue for my last question, which is, you know, you and I, you mentioned at the top that media has changed so much through the years. and legacy publishers, they can either, you know, get left in the dust or they can evolve. And what you're doing right now is evolving. We watch you experimenting, changing. It's so exciting. I'm curious, you know, how has your vision for Allure evolved over the years? And, you know, how do you sort of see what's on the horizon for you?

32:21Jessica Cruel: You know, media is a wild ride, honey. Wild.

32:27Lexy Lebsack: You and I have both been on it, though.

32:29Jessica Cruel: Wow. You never know what is coming year to year. You really don't. But, you know, I think one thing that has really excited me about media is, you know, it used to be that the primary way that you spoke to readers was through the print publication. and you know it was my dream to be a print magazine editor right and that is still very valid for a lot of brands for us we became digital first in 2022 okay so we sunset our print publication and now what we're seeing is a more egalitarian platform strategy you know when I sit down, I'm talking to my head of video about YouTube and Instagram and TikTok.

33:17Jessica Cruel: I'm talking to my social team about what's going to be social first, what's going to be the original content just for social. And I'm talking about to my executive editor about what's going to go on the website. Right. So it's and we talk about this, obviously, all across all those platforms. We're still allure. We still are the beauty expert across all those platforms. But it's almost like running three different kind of audiences, three different perspectives on a lure and serving that each day. And it's a challenge, right? Because you never know what's going to happen to the Google

33:54Lexy Lebsack: algorithm or, you know, the Instagram algorithm.

33:58Jessica Cruel: Facebook can fall off a cliff one day and no one gives you a warning. But I think it's really fun to say, you know, now we're in a place, it used to be that it would run in print and then we run on digital and then the social would be like the promo of it. And now we're really starting to say, okay, here's the story. What platform is it best for? If it's just for social, then let it be just for social. If we know that this targets a younger audience, more diverse audience, then social is probably the best place for it. You know, if we know that it's a long read that those women who come to us for aesthetics content is going to really, you know, sink their teeth into, then let's make it a newsletter play.

34:45Jessica Cruel: Let's make sure that it has good online graphics and things like that. And so it really feels like there is an opportunity to really grow strategies kind of similarly in parallel paths, but on three different roads. And it's really fun to do that. I also think that the way we have made Allure more personal in the last, I would say, two years mostly has been something I'm really proud of. You can go on the site and see real before and afters from people who are doing treatments when they are writing our stories. You can see our editors testing, as I talked about in our shopping content. You can read these voicey pieces from writers that have strong opinions.

35:38Jessica Cruel: And I think that is just something that really didn't fly back in the day. You know, it was like the royal we, you know, in legacy print. It was like, we all speak in one voice. That's the Allure voice. We're speaking to her, the one Allure reader. And now we get to be more true to ourselves. And I love to see how my team can bring in their own interests. Like we did a cosplay story for Comic-Con in San Diego. And that was one of my editors being like, I love Comic-Con. I think it's the best thing smoking. We should do this story. And I was like, sure. Sounds great. And it did so well on social with that community, right?

36:19Jessica Cruel: And so I think we just have this great opportunity to diversify these brands in a different way and make these brands feel really personal to someone instead of this kind of highfalutin aspirational thing. It's more down to earth and relatable.

36:38Lexy Lebsack: Yeah. Well, Jess, they are very lucky to have you there. Congrats on five years. Congrats on Best of Beauty.

36:45Jessica Cruel: Thanks so much for coming on the show. Oh, thank you so much, Lexi. It was such a good time.

36:54Lexy Lebsack: And thank you for listening to this episode of the Glossy Beauty Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. And for even more coverage on the beauty industry and more, please visit glossy.co slash beauty.