677: This ONE Email Marketing Strategy Got Me 100,000 Subscribers

0:01Today's episode is sponsored in part by Revolve and Spectrum. Revolve is my all time favorite place to shop for my dream wardrobe. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Spectrum business keeps your business connected with reliable service you can count on. Visit spectrum.com forward slash free for life to learn how you can get business internet free forever. As always, you can find all of our amazing deals in the show notes. Now let's get into it. okay I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing like if I haven't reached for it in months it's gotta go I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use revolve just gets it though I'm literally wearing my brown autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse it fits my laptop in it so it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything.

1:02I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life. Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns.

1:37It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. That's where the magic happens. That's where it's like people see that invitation to learn more about themselves. And they can't not take two minutes to find out what the answer is. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life.

2:16I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger Podcast. Do you want to take what you want to be known for to the masses and build your email list in the process?

2:53Well, using a quiz might be the answer. My guest today is a quiz funnel strategist, a growth consultant, and a coach that is obsessed with psychology, interactive marketing, and getting brag-worthy results for her students and clients. She helps online business owners create quiz funnels for their offers and beyond. Now, personally, she has helped me effortlessly grow my email list by more than 100 ,000 people since we created my first quiz. and if what the gurus say is true and every lead should add one dollar to your bottom line every month well dang it we just hit the jackpot in today's episode shanty zach simplifies the entire process of creating a quiz that is freakishly accurate i love sharing the quizzes she's helped me to create because it allows me to serve and show up for my people in bigger and better ways while connecting them with the next best steps that they simply can't deny and now i want for you to do the same.

3:50We are going to dive deep into the world of quizzes in a way that you can take what Shanty does and apply it to your own business so that you can grow your email list. I am so excited to dive into all things quizzes. So Shanty Zach, welcome to the show. If you're ready to dig your biggest goals with each other in person, mark your calendars for September 5th through the 8th, 2023 for HubSpot's annual Inbound Conference in Boston. There will be multiple stages featuring over a dozen industry experts, including Reese Witherspoon, Derek Jeter, Neil Patel, and more. You'll learn everything from sales strategy to AI and innovation, connect with the leaders, and the best part is you'll walk away with practical tips that you can put into action as soon as you get home.

4:39Tickets are selling out fast. So head over to inbound.com to get yours today. Today's episode feels super special to me. I am speaking with someone who has played a very pivotal role in one of my favorite things in the entire world, one of our nerdy obsessions, email list building. Shanti, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Okay. So before we kind of put our nerd glasses on with excitement, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and how you became interested in helping online business owners with things like quiz funnels? Yeah. Honestly, I think it started when I was like 12 and my mom would give me$10 to go to the grocery store and buy a 17 magazine and a bottle of Sprite and some corn chips.

5:31and I would come home and like the very first thing I would do is go straight to the quiz section. Like it was always my obsession. Yes. Wait. So this began very early. I remember that section of 17 magazine. I was a huge fan. So what about it? Like drew you in? Like what was your favorite part about it? I mean, I think that there's a lot of subconscious stuff going on when we feel the draw to take a quiz. Like consciously, I had no idea why I loved them so much. But you know, fast forward today, I know that it's because it was about my favorite topic, which was me and which NSYNC guy I would be best with.

6:19So that like that like psychology behind why quizzes work so well is applicable to even a 12 year old girl. Okay. So I can't imagine that you're 12 and you get 17 Magazine and you say, someday I will create quizzes for people. I'm guessing it might have been not as straight of a road as that. Talk to me a little bit about your story and how you kind of got to the place that you're in today. Yeah, absolutely. So my first professional grown-up foray into the world of quizzes was actually when I was working in-house at this spiritual development company that was putting out tons of courses and books and thought leadership and yet struggled with lead generation, which I think so many online businesses do.

7:12How many free guides and in their case, free meditations or back in the day, it was seminars. It wasn't so much webinars or masterclasses. So like that was the struggle. And I was in charge of solving that problem. So I was constantly trying new things. And when I tried a quiz for the first time, the topic was, which of your chakras is blocked? It was terrible. It was such a bad quiz. Stop it. I want to take that quiz. I think it's maybe you can find it in like the way back machine. But this was like, I think seven years ago now, six, seven years ago. So it was a while ago, but it popped off. Like it just worked better than anything they had ever tried.

8:04And a little light bulb went off in the back of my mind. Like, wow, this was so much fun to create. It was so easy. Like I could barely fathom how it had gotten, I think it got 10 ,000 new subscribers in a month with like$500 thrown towards Facebook ads. Like it was wild. How did that lead you to becoming like the quiz queen from that experience? What did that look like for you? Okay. So a few months after that happened, And I actually got let go and kind of laid off from that company, which was so terrifying at the time because I had thought like, I made it. I got this cushy gig. We're set. I retired my hubby from the wretched job that he was working.

9:02He was taking care of our kiddo. And I was the sole breadwinner. So suddenly, I'm like, totally jobless. I had no eggs in any other baskets. I'm like, what do I do? And I had freelanced before I had been a freelance copywriter before that, and really struggled. Like it was roller coaster revenue, you never knew if it would be feast or famine. So I didn't want to make the same mistakes I did in that previous iteration. And I ended up investing in mentorship at a time when I couldn't really afford it. Like I just had my credit card that had some space on it. And I was like, I need help. So I joined a mastermind.

9:49And my coaches at the time were like, okay, what have you done that was really successful that you could niche down into and focus on. And I told them about this quiz story and they were like, okay, that's it. You got to run with it. And at the time I was like, are you sure? Like this? I mean, yeah, it was a one-time thing. Is that really enough to go off? And they were like, yes, go for it. So that's what I did. I just took their advice, even though I didn't really have any level of confidence in this idea. And I started pitching podcasts and cold pitching and getting clients in different industries.

10:34And with the question of, is this going to work again? And I mean, fast forward to today, I've worked with thousands of students and probably hundreds of clients at this point where like, yes, it works again and again. Okay. So for somebody listening to this, let's kind of walk through like, how does the quiz work? And how is it different from other marketing strategies? And why do you think business owners should use them? Because I am sure that there are a lot of people whose ears perked up when you said they were trying all these lead gen strategies. They weren't growing their email list. They knew the power of an email list.

11:15They couldn't figure it out. And all of a sudden this popped off. Talk to me about how you would describe what a quiz or a quiz funnel is in terms of a marketing strategy. Yeah, absolutely. So there are a few different reasons why they work so well. And I like to say it's a strategy that feeds three birds with one scone. Like there's many, many uses from this one asset that you create. So the first one is this irresistible psychology behind learning more about ourselves. Your potential clients and customers, when they land on your website or your Instagram, they have questions. How is this going to help me?

12:01But my scenario is unique. Is this really going to work for me? What about this topic in relation to my unique one-of-a-kind personality? So there's all of these I'm special moments that come up, often in the form of objections to investing in whatever it is that you sell. And so if you can speak to someone in a way that honors their uniqueness, that makes them feel like kind of special and focuses on what's different about them. And this is specifically if you can intertwine like some personality insights into your quiz, that's really like the special sauce. And that's where the magic happens.

12:50That's where it's like people see that invitation to learn more about themselves. And they can't not take two minutes to find out what the answer is. Like it creates a literal dopamine release in the brain when they do the little bit of work in answering the questions, which is fun in and of itself because it's all about them and their life and their circumstances. and then they get that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, which is their results. Like if you're doing your job right, their little like neurotransmitters are popping off. Yes. Yes. I love that aspect of it because I think it's so cool.

13:36Like you said, I mean, the number one thing that we get asked whenever we launch a course is like, but what about me? How does this work for me? Will it work for me? And it's so interesting because that oneness is such a beautiful factor that we don't want people to lose. But if you're not speaking in a way that makes it so obvious to them that this could be a fit for them, then a quiz can be a great way to help do that. Totally. So that's the first aspect is that like psychology behind it. The second one is the interactive nature of a quiz. Like you are capturing people's attention and keeping it statistically, I think it's four times longer than a static page or asset.

14:21So because they have to sort of think about, well, how would I answer this question? And click and hit next. And there's a lot of movement happening that doesn't happen when you just download a free guide or when you're just sitting there passively consuming a video series. So it's like that interactivity also helps. And I think that's the future of marketing. The more interactive elements we can have available to the people who are coming into our worlds, the easier it will be for them to stick around and remain interested. So that's the second one. And then the third one is like research and segmentation.

15:09And this is where we can get really nerdy, quite honestly. To put it simply, you get to ask whatever burning questions you have for your potential clients and customers. You have a permission slip to ask those in your quiz and get responses at scale. So if you're wondering, what do they really want to learn about? How do they most want to be supported? What solutions are they looking for? What is standing in their way of achieving whatever it is I can help them with? You get carte blanche to ask them whatever you want. And then you get to look at your analytics and see like, oh, 80 % of people want one-on-one support when it comes to their health.

16:02This is so good for you to know, as a business owner and a marketer, now you can maybe bake that into your offers a little bit more or address it in your sales copy. There's so many ways you can use that information. And then... So that's the research piece. The segmentation piece is a little bit different because from a tech perspective... Now, this depends on the email marketing system that you use. They're all so different. Not all of them have the capacity to create a tag. or a segment, but many of them do. And so super easy example. Let's say you are a yoga teacher. You have an online course for total beginner yogis, and you have an online course for advanced yogis who want to be like flying up into handstand, chaturanga flow, like that's their jam.

16:55These are two very different audiences. If you attempt to speak to these audiences as if they are the same and sell to them as if they are the same, you are going to have mad unsubscribes. Like people are going to feel like this isn't relevant to me. And they'll drop off and you'll have so many missed opportunities. Whereas if you can identify someone who's a beginner and someone who's advanced and send them down completely different pathways, the pathways that are going going to be the fit for them that lead to your offers that are the fit for where they're at right now in their yoga journey, your conversions are so much higher.

17:41Your retention is so much higher. Trust is so much higher. Segmentation sounds like this kind of scary thing, but all it is, is getting specific in how you speak to your audience. And what's so beautiful about quizzes, is that they're self-segmenting. They're doing the work for you. They are literally saying, here's where I'm at. This just brought me back in time of when you and I created my first quiz, which was probably five years ago or more. And I remember a lot of people forget that I was still shooting weddings five years ago. I was still a wedding photographer who was way too afraid to dive all the way into the online space.

18:28And so I remember when we were creating my first quiz, what is your secret sauce? We had a section because I was like, I need to know. I was so afraid. I was like, I need to know what percentage of my audience are photographers. And if I end up ending that portion of my business, am I going to even have a business anymore? I just remember here, but then like the information spoke and it was a really small segment, which gave me that clarity of like, it is okay to let this piece go and to move on. And so that data point I think is so powerful and you can use it to the nerdiest of degrees, or you can just use it as like a thermometer of like, okay, go a little bit more in this direction.

19:15And I think that is so powerful with quizzes. Yeah, I love that. I didn't even know that, that you were experiencing that at the time, which when you have, when your brain has the data and the proof, suddenly you can make decisions from a place of confidence. Whereas like without that, it feels like we're just guessing. And that's so challenging. So in a recent Instagram post, you wrote, you said quizzes and assessments as a tool to grow your business aren't about labels or putting your audience in tiny little boxes. They're about giving them answers at scale. So let's talk about what kind of answers can we give our audience through quizzes.

19:55I'm sure that there are a lot of people that are listening to this and they're like, okay, what would I make a quiz about? And how would I give them a results page that would make them feel seen and understood? So talk to me about that because I love that. We just hit on the segmentation piece and that data piece, but But quizzes are so much bigger than that, right? Especially for the user experience. So talk to me about that. Yeah, this is such a good question. And there's so much to explore here. First of all, my understanding of marketing and communication online is based around curiosity as the main driver of people taking action.

20:38Like when someone comes to your Instagram page or your website or whatever, however they're finding you, they have so many questions just percolating in the back of their brains. Like maybe you sell eyelash extensions. They're hitting your website and they're like, oh, like which ones would work with my eye shape? Are these gonna come off easily at night? Like, should I really get eyelash extensions? Is this going to be like bad for my natural eyelashes? Like, right, random example, but there's so many questions going on. And so one of the easiest ways to come up with a quiz topic that, you know, does get results.

21:22It might not be like the most clever, fun, witty idea in the world, but looking at what are the top questions I get? The questions that you get over and over and over again. The thing that you know your potential client or customer is thinking when they come into your world, that is your starting point. So an example of this, I worked with a client and they sell life coaching certification, which is a huge endeavor. It's six to nine months of training and practice. It's a big upfront investment. and often the people who are coming into that are transitioning from like other careers or doing it on the side of a different career.

22:14And so the big question in their minds is, should I really become a life coach? Like, should I really do this? Does this actually make sense for me? Does this make sense for my personality and my goals? And like, there's a lot of stuff that comes up there. So the quiz we built for them was literally, should you become a life coach? Take the quiz and find out what it is about you, your situation, your personality that does or doesn't lend itself to life coaching. And there's an option that's like, you shouldn't become a life coach because certainly not everyone should. But the other options, it's like all the different reasons why this might be a powerful path for them.

23:04And they launched this quiz and they had people like joining their certification program without even getting on a sales call. Like it was that compelling and they got their questions answered. And suddenly there's no friction. There's no more resistance to them moving forward. Looking for a new podcast to add to your weekly lineup? Yep. Check out Entrepreneurs on Fire, hosted by John Lee Dumas. Every week, JLD and his guests share practical strategies to fire up your business journey and create the life you've always dreamed of. No matter what goals you're digging this year, Entrepreneurs on Fire will inspire you to take action and give you the tools to get there.

23:44JLD has interviewed over 3 ,000 incredible entrepreneurs, including Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk, Barbara Corcoran, Tim Ferriss, and so many more, including yours truly. You are bound to find the topic or the guest you're looking for. I loved his recent interview with Tyler Wagner on how to become a successful author. I honestly wish I had heard that episode before I promoted my book. Listen to Entrepreneurs on Fire wherever you get your podcasts. I think you'll love it just as much as I do. Can you believe that we're already wrapping up 2025? This year was packed with travel, and so many new memories.

24:24One of my favorite moments was our team retreat in Arizona with the incredible women who helped me keep this business running. I also recently took the kids to Nashville during fall break, and somewhere in between, I squeezed in a trip to Puerto Rico with friends. We booked some of our most memorable stays this year on Airbnb. There's something special about finding a place that doesn't just look great in the photos, but actually feels welcoming the moment you walk in. That this feels right kind of feeling. If you've got trips coming up, whether it's a family vacation, a retreat, or a work trip, your house will probably be sitting empty while you're gone.

24:58Have you considered hosting your home on Airbnb and letting it work for you? It's a simple way to earn some extra income that can be put towards a future trip or home improvement projects. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com forward slash host. Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's gotta go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use.

25:34Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in so it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that, things that look good but also work hard for my actual life. Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff, sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar and it's all in one place which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away.

26:12Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. So would you say that for like an initial quiz, just starting with either like the leading objection or the number one thing that everyone asks you when you say, here's what I do, or here's who I serve is a great place to start because it's so obvious, right?

26:49Like not only does it help collect a lead and help if somebody lands on your page, it gives them something to do like we talked about, but it also allows, and I think this is what is so powerful about quizzes is it allows someone to be introspective enough to answer questions that allows them to overcome their objections without you having to convince them. It does the work for you in so many ways. So would you say that's a good place to start for your first quiz? Yeah, absolutely. That's the easiest place to start 100%. And even if you're new to business, you probably do have a sense of what are the questions people are asking me all the time.

27:32And it's so nice when you get those DMs or emails or comments with this recurring question. And you can say like, actually, I just created this epic tool for you to find out the answer. Go take it. Then come back to me and tell me what result you got. And let's talk about it. Like you have more of a jumping off point. The foundation is set. So we talk about the entry point, right? We just kind of help people discover or uncover what their entry point is. Now let's talk about like the end result, because I think that can also be intimidating. Like who am I to say, yes, you should become a life coach or no, you shouldn't.

28:14Obviously that other person is far more qualified to do that. But who am I to give a result to someone who is so complex, right? Like as humans, we are so multifaceted. We're very complex beings who are constantly evolving. How do you come up with what these possible end results could be, whether it's an A or a B or an A, B, C or D? What does that look like? And how could somebody take that and apply it? Yeah. So the first thing you have to remember is like, don't need to take this that seriously. No one is taking a quiz online looking for like a medical diagnosis or something Or they shouldn't be if they are.

28:58There's something that is like so serious. Usually people are in the mindset of like, okay, this is for fun. It's interesting. I'll take it with a grain of salt. In the same way that we read our horoscopes and we're not betting our life on what Monday's horoscope said. So keeping that in mind, I think is important because it's like, bring some levity to it. No one's expecting you to be a scientist here. So with that said, how do you move forward? The easiest way is to look at, put your blinders on, look at your audience. You do not need to have representation of all 18 Myers-Briggs types. You don't need to be an Enneagram expert.

29:51Look at your audience and start to look at what differentiates them. And so just making a list of, okay, what are the different personality type characteristics of the people I tend to work with and breaking those into categories? And then looking at maybe experience level, what are the differences you see? obstacles and challenges. What are the big differences you see? What are the solution, the different solutions people are coming to you for and starting to just break all those things out is the first step to coming up with what your end results will actually be. And so this is your audience.