692: Behind the Scenes of Our 4-Day Work Week Experiment

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

0:35Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. it's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop by favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger offer available for a limited time.

1:15So happy shopping. We wanted to figure out ways that we could simplify processes, automate tasks and delegate other responsibilities so that in working for days, we weren't just making them longer days, we were actually staying true to this eight hour a day model. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things, business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore.

1:55Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger Podcast. Working from home feels more popular than ever. And as we do that, we're all trying to find a rhythm that's good for both our businesses and our souls. Now, I've been super curious about the four-day workweek philosophy for years. It all started when I picked up a book called Shorter.

2:29The subtitle here is Work Better, Smarter, and Less. Here's How. This book was written by Alex Soo Jung Kim Peng, and we've linked it in the show notes for you. I actually got the Audible version and started listening to it over a year ago. Now, this book highlights the fatigue of being constantly on, offering up the idea that working fewer hours actually gives our productivity a serious boost, as well as making us more creative and profitable. I mean, that's pretty amazing. This book was actually a recommendation from my business best friend, Amy Porterfield. She started testing out this workweek rhythm of her own with her team over a year ago.

3:07And since her and I talk every day, I felt like I was in the know on how they were doing it and how it was going, which spoiler alert, it was going great. I feel like when she made that shift, it planted this seed that admittedly took a while to produce a harvest in my own life, which is normal in business. But what did all of this seed planting do? Well, it led to a big decision, a decision that we as a team are now testing out a four-day work week. We're doing it for 90 days. So let me share a little bit of the research behind four-day work weeks, how I finally made the decision to implement it and implement it quickly, and how it's going for us.

3:47Let's dive on in. Recently, my team went down to a four-day work week so we can spend more time in the sun and less time in front of screens. In order for us to be able to do that, we have to work smarter and not harder. That's why we're so excited about HubSpot's integrated AI tech. It's helping teams like ours automate the more tedious parts of running a business like doing research, summarizing information, writing copy, and more. Recent research shows that marketers are already slicing time spent on admin tasks in a half thanks to AI from five hours to two and a half hours per day. Just imagine with all that extra time, you could be joining us with a four-day work week too.

4:28Start saving time in your business with the help of the AI power tools built right into HubSpot CRM. Learn more and get started today at HubSpot.com. This episode is sponsored by BiOptimizers. They have so many incredible products to optimize your digestion, brain, and gut health. But my favorite is Magnesium Breakthrough, which contains all seven forms of magnesium designed to help calm your mind and stay asleep. Get yours today for 10 % off at magbreakthrough.com slash gold digger. One of my favorite things to do on this show is let you in behind the scenes of my business and not just the business, but why and how we make decisions, especially as a CEO.

5:12Now, a lot of times when I find myself pondering a shift for a while, I usually will guide myself to do some research or investigate to really understand why am I questioning something or why am I contemplating this? Why am I thinking about it? A lot of times when I can connect the why to the way, it helps me to make a more confident decision. Now, what's interesting is, is that I've been contemplating moving our team down to a four-day workweek for a very long time, but I had never actually made that call. When I started to dig a little bit deeper into the philosophy behind four-day workweeks and understand some of the research that had been done around it, it really started to feel more insightful and exciting to actually informally make that change.

5:56Now, as it turns out, the five-day workweek is a fairly outdated concept. It's a remnant from the industrial revolution when factory owners realized that more time equaled more production. And of course, more production equals more money. Now, back then, domestic work and household logistics were also hugely undervalued. These days, we all deserve time to devote to our own passions and priorities, maybe even having a day that belongs to us and not our employers, which let's be honest, for many of us, that feels like a foreign concept. We'll all eventually resent working efficiently if our only reward is more work.

6:33Have you ever felt that way where you're like, I'm working smarter and working harder so that I can work more? That doesn't feel good, right? The four-day workweek offers us a time raise instead of a salary raise. And if you've listened to the show long enough, you know that I believe time is my currency. And so if we were to give the ultimate raise to our team members, it wouldn't necessarily come in the form of money. It would come in the form of time. And so switching to a four-day workweek is kind of considered a time raise, which I love. Now, when you think about a time raise for you and your team, time could very well be your most valuable asset.

7:09So if you are able to get systems in place and communicate well, solidify a plan around shifting from a five-day to a four-day workweek, it could be a really awesome way for you to experiment. You might just find out that it's how your business was always destined to run, which is what I am hopeful our own experiment will yield. So we recently decided to make this formal shift. We decided to start taking Fridays off. I love thinking of the term summer Fridays, and I love that this is happening in the summer. But a four-day workweek doesn't necessarily mean you take Fridays off. It could look different for you, for everyone, for your team.

7:49What I love about our method is that we're really treating it as an experiment. So you want to start thinking about what this could look like for you if you're a solopreneur or you if you're a CEO and guiding a team. When I was doing my research about what this could look like and why I felt like this was something strong enough to pursue, I found this fascinating study that was published in a Washington Post article. We actually linked this article in the show notes and the show description for you if you want to take a peek. So in this study, nearly 3 ,000 employees took part in the world's largest trial of the four-day workweek, which was organized by the advocacy group Four-Day Week Global in collaboration with the research group Autonomy and researchers at Boston College and the University of Cambridge.

8:38So as you can tell, this trial was stacked. So companies that participated could adopt different methods to meaningfully shorten their employees' work weeks from giving them one day a week off or reducing their working days in a year to average out so that their working average was 32 hours per week. They had to ensure that while their employees would be working less, that employees still received 100 % of their pay. This is something that was really important to me as well and a theme in the book shorter where it talked about when you implement a four-day work week or if you reduce your employees' hours, you do not want to reduce pay.

9:19You want to keep them at 100 % of their pay, which for a lot of business owners, you're probably like, wait, what? How is this going to pan out? So listen to this. At the end of the experiment, employees reported a variety of benefits related to their sleep, stress levels, personal lives, and mental health. According to results published, companies' revenues stayed broadly the same during the six-month trial, but rose 35 % on average when compared with a similar period from previous years. During this time period, resignations also decreased. I think this data alone is super telling. Now, of the 61 companies that took part in the trial, 56 of them said they would continue to implement four-day work weeks after the pilot ended, 18 of which said the shift would be permanent.

10:09Two companies are extending the trial and only three companies out of 61 did not plan to carry on with any element of the four-day work week. So as you can tell, companies that have experimented with this generally end up loving it and keeping it long-term. The four-day week global group is coordinating these pilot programs as part of its global campaign to encourage more firms to switch from the standard 40-hour work weeks to a 32-hour model for the same pay and benefits. Those who took part were less likely to report that they felt like they didn't have enough time in the week to take care of their children, grandchildren, or older people in their lives.

10:49I also found this was fascinating, but the time men spent looking after children increased by more than double that of women, pointing to positive effects of a shorter workweek in regards to gender equality. Now, a majority of employees who experienced a four-day workweek didn't want to go back. In fact, at the end of the pilot, they were asked how much money they would have to receive from their next employer to go back to a five-day week. Nearly one-third of participants said that they would require a 26 % to 50 % increase and 8 % said they would want 50 % higher pay. So as you can tell, not only is this beneficial across the spectrum in terms of just work-life balance, this thing that we're all trying to achieve, but it significantly shows positive benefits, whether it's an increase in revenue, a decrease in resignations, an overall satisfaction improvement across the board, better mental health, better balance when it comes to being a caretaker.

11:47To me, these are all huge wins and really compelling reasons why we should explore this four-day work week as entrepreneurs and as CEOs. So between reading the book shorter, hearing about my friend Amy's experience, and this article, I felt more convicted that we actually had to give it a shot. I didn't want it to just be a pipe dream or a someday thing. I was like, we should just give it a try. Now, I am someone I absolutely love to work, but I have also found, especially since becoming a mom, that when I spend less time but more concentrated and focused time, I often can achieve the same amount of work.

12:25I don't know about you, but for me, when I had children, I felt like my time evaporated. And I suddenly wondered, what did I do with all of that time before I had children? I could suddenly take a three-hour nap window and knock out what used to take me eight to 10 hours in a day. And so when we can distill down our work, create better systems, and do more concentrated and focused work, I think it's totally achievable that we can get done what we used to get done in 40 hours and get it done in 32 hours. Now, what's really interesting about this is my vision for the next few years, especially as a mom of little ones is really recognizing and honoring this one quote that keeps popping up in my head, which is let it be easy.

13:10I have to share another conversation for another day. I'll record it soon about how this line got into my life, but it is one that I find myself repeating over and over again. And when I started hearing that line, let it be easy. One thing became crystal clear. I had to make that shift and I wanted to go to a four day work week. In fact, when that line came into my life, it was very clear. It felt like a light bulb moment of we need to go down to a four day work week and not just for myself, but also for my team. Something that's really important for me is that the things that I want for my own life, when I find myself feeling like I want more time with my kids or I want more focused time with Drew or I want more time to myself, what a concept.

13:54When I find myself thinking those things, I don't want them to just be reserved for me as the CEO. I want them for my entire team. And so it was really clear in that moment that I wanted to try it out, not just for myself, but for all of us. It was actually perfect timing when this whole thought came into my brain, because for us, June was really busy. We had a really big launch in our business, but it opened up July, August, and September, which ended up being pretty light months for us. I'm kind of laughing now because they're already flying on by, like where is time going. But we also had more of an opportunity to kind of soak in the lighter months and get back into our content rhythm.

14:34And so it was perfect timing because it's summer. We want to be with our families. We want to be with our friends. And we also had this kind of window of time within the business where it felt like it was actually doable, that putting a four-day workweek into motion wouldn't tax us. It would actually give us back the time, which was the entire purpose of the experiment. I live in this very weird thing. And I'm curious if anyone can relate to this, but during the work week, when I'm in my rhythm, when I'm in my groove, I have a hard time like imagining a weekend or being away from my work. And then the weekend hits and I get in my groove and my rhythm and my routine with my family.

15:12And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't imagine going back to work. And it often feels like this push and pull in my life of two different identities, the identity during the week when I'm getting stuff done, I'm more in my masculine energy. And then this energy during the weekend where I'm more in my feminine maternal energy. And a lot of times when I'm in one, I have a hard time remembering like what it feels like to be in flow in the other. And so what's awesome about the four day work week is I feel like it gives me more time to be in that feminine energy to rest, to nourish, to be present. And that will hopefully fuel that more masculine side of me, that get stuff done, that achiever side of me.

15:52And so I think that this is going to work out really well in terms of my own personal rhythm, but I also can feel that working out really well for my team. You can't dig your biggest goals without a little hard work, which is why I bet you'll love listening to the Hustle Daily Show brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, hosted by Zachary Crockett, Jacob Cohen, Rob Litterst, and Juliet Bennett, The Hustle Daily Show brings you a healthy dose of irreverent, offbeat, and informative takes on business and tech news. With short 10 to 15 minute episodes released every day, you're bound to learn something new this week.

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18:56okay I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing like if I haven't reached for it in months it's gotta go I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use revolve just gets it though I'm literally wearing my brown autri sneakers from there right now. And my new suede purse, it fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

19:30Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger.

20:08Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. How it all started. So first things first, I love to look at everything in my business as an experiment. I love doing quote experiments versus deciding absolute decisions because a lot of times as entrepreneurs and human beings, we evolve and we change our minds. And so when I approach a new idea or a new culture point for our team, I always want to do it from a place of an experiment, which means guess what? If we don't love how it's going, we can change our mind. We're not stuck. So what I decided is that I wanted to test out this four-day work week for 90 days.

20:46Then as a team, we'll collectively come together and have a meeting on what's working, what's not working. Are there any adjustments we need to make? And do we want to move forward with it? Spoiler alert, I pulled my team on our team meeting today. So far, everyone is loving it and there were zero complaints or hesitations. So I like to decide on things and usually I'll do like 30, 60, 90 days when it comes to an experiment. We decided on 90 days. I love the 90 day rule, which suggests that you should wait three months of trying something new before making any changes because it generally takes that long for you to know how you really feel about it.

21:22I feel like it's a good sample time to really assess like, is this working and what do we like about it? And what do we need to change about it? So before we started, I talked to a few different team members based on their schedule and their work style. So I have a few team members who like to work odd hours. Some have ADHD, one has autism. So we are all working kind of through different rhythms, different workflows. And one thing as a boss is I love to encourage my team to really find what works best for them and their flow state and to do my best as a leader to honor that. And so as we were making that transition, I was already thinking about some team members where I'm like, this is going to be very easy for this person, but it might be more challenging for this person.

22:04How do we facilitate this and encourage this in a way that allows for openness and communication, but also honors different people's work styles. And so I had to have a few candid conversations with some of my team members who do work different hours of the day to say, okay, what is this going to look like for you? How are you feeling about this? How can I support this for you? We also wanted to make sure that we had structure in place in order to make this work because the four-day workweek is supposed to free us up, not cause our systems to fall apart. One thing I'm really proud about in my business is that we are very good at following systems.

22:38We follow through, we are super consistent. Like our ability to implement is bar none. And so I wanted to make sure that the systems we've set up and the things that we've put into place supported the four-day workweek framework and also allowed us to keep those systems running without the wheels falling off if we're taking that extra day off. And so we really wanted to look at things like our content strategies, our project management systems, the timing that we usually publish things, like what will that look like if we're all logged off? And so we wanted to really kind of look at like our system and then see if we needed to tweak, plan, or prep around that.

23:15Now, personally, what we use in my business is Monday.com. We use Monday.com for pretty much everything for project management. So my to-do list lives in there. My team will task me with different things. We have our content calendars. We are tracking different projects and deadlines. If you're curious about monday.com, go to jennalovesmonday.com. That's jennalovesmonday.com. Also linked in the show notes and description for you. But we wanted to make sure that we had everything in there. And then also that we weren't assigning tasks that would be due on the day off. Now, we also use Slack for our team communication.

23:49Slack is something that we basically live in during the workday. And so we are facilitating this four-day workweek using these two main tools, Monday.com and Slack. That way we can stay up to date on the systems that we already have in place and make that shift so that four days of work can feel easier and also doable. Like I know for one of my team members, Marissa, she's one of my right-hand gals. She has a very full workload. And so before swapping to four days, we had to restructure things to make sure that it wasn't turning into four 10-hour days. we wanted it to become, okay, how do we get this to 32 hours?

24:25And she actually was a huge person that inspired this for me. When she became a mom, she also hit this place where she's like, I just don't want to work full-time anymore. I love work. I love what I do, but I want more time with my kid. And so that was something that her and I had talked about. We wanted to figure out ways that we could simplify processes, automate tasks, and delegate other responsibilities so that in working four days, we weren't just making them longer days. We were actually staying true to this eight hour a day model. And let me be honest, we don't always nail it. We don't always hit it, but it's something that we're cognizant of.

25:02The goal of the four day work week isn't to cram 40 hours into four days. It's to really get to a place where you can get all of your work done in 32 hours, just a more focused and condensed plan. So if you're thinking about doing this, one thing to consider is plan your weekly schedule with your team. So regardless of if your team is contractors, a VA, if they're on payroll, you might want to think through, okay, what is going to be the best flow for us as a team? So maybe Mondays and Thursdays are going to be meeting heavy so that you can bookend the week. And then you leave Tuesdays and Wednesdays and you dedicate those for everyone to get into their creative flow and stay productive.