701: Real Talk: Is It Time to Quit Or Should You Push Through?

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

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1:13Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. And I think we as entrepreneurs and we as parents, we as step parents, we as church planters, we as sons and daughters, like we need to understand that the decisions that we make today impact our tomorrow and not just our tomorrow, but the generations tomorrow. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business.

1:52I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger podcast. What is the difference between those who are defeated by struggle and those who are sharpened by it? Between those who are broken by pain and those who are made wiser by it? The answer is resilience.

2:25For us to blossom out of a seed of pain and flourish in wisdom, it requires resilience. It is possible to make meaning out of a mess. And my guest today is going to tell us exactly how to do that. Whether by choice or circumstances out of our control, we all have moments where we feel like we've been pushed out, dragged down, or knocked out. Bianca Olthoff is convinced that true power is getting back up and that success isn't only for the smart, talented, or well-connected. She wants to support you when you're in the midst of your messy middle. And that's exactly what she'll share with you today.

3:00Bianca is the co-lead pastor of The Father's House, Orange County, and was named one of Christian's top 30 leaders under 30 by Relevant Magazine. She averages 35 speaking events a year outside of her church and her podcast, We're Going There, has over 2 million downloads. And spoiler alert, I'm going to be a guest on that show. Her brand new book, Grit Don't Quit, is out now. And today she's going to share some of the leading principles in the book, including how to cultivate perseverance in all that we do, how to train the brain to become more resilient, as well as how to increase emotional, mental, and spiritual strength.

3:35Listen close for the five questions that Bianca will share that you need to answer if you are contemplating quitting, because let's be honest, sometimes quitting is the right thing. This isn't an episode filled with toxic positivity. It's an honest look at what grit, resilience, and discernment can bring into your life as you navigate when to push and when to throw in the towel. Without further ado, let's dive on in with Bianca. Recently, my team went down to a four-day work week so we can spend more time in the sun and less time in front of screens. In order for us to be able to do that, we have to work smarter and not harder.

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4:49Okay. If this voice sounds familiar to you on the podcast today, it's not because I'm having the same guest on in the same month. It is because she is the incredible twin sister to a previous guest, Jasmine star Bianca. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I know it is confusing because Jasmine and I have literally the exact same voice actually broke up. I don't know if I told you this, but I broke up with her now husband, then boyfriend in high school because he couldn't tell her voices apart on the phone. Yeah. So something interesting about Bianca and I told her this a few weeks ago when I was being interviewed for her podcast is that years ago when we were on Island in Maui, I attended this conference for women at the church that we were at and Bianca was speaking and I was just thrown for such a loop because I had known Jasmine for over a decade.

5:41And so watching her sister, I was like, okay, one teaches business and one preaches about the Lord. This is so interesting, but there were so many nuances that were so similar. It was like I was doing a double take. I love it. I like to say Jasmine's business and I'm all Bible. So together it's a good mix. Okay. So we're going to talk about something that I'm really excited about. So you have a book that's out, Grit Don't Quit. And one topic that I don't think we talk about enough in this marketing world, in this entrepreneur world, and for people that are starting side hustles, is like, how do you know when it's time to quit something?

6:16I feel like so much messaging is like push through and this is gonna be hard and you gotta just stay on the path and you gotta trust the journey. So let's kind of start off with, why did you write a book called Grit, Don't Quit? And then let's talk about how to discern when we should actually quit something and when we should push through. I love it, I love it. Okay, so let's start at the 30 ,000 foot level. I'm seeing so much within culture, within not just our generation, but the generation after us and that's upcoming is that it is so easy to toss in the towel. There's no consequence. I mean, let's think about this in a postmodern culture society with a tap, a touch, a swipe, we can get a meal delivered to our door.

6:56We can get groceries to our door. We can get, we can get sex delivered to our door. I mean, it's just so easy. So we've been accustomed with instant access and Instacart and Instagram that when something takes longer than we want, then we are prone to walk away or think it's not for us or think it's not worth it. Where I really want to come in and kind of take it like a cultural temperature of the last three years is really speak to the souls of people because your soul knows when you're cutting the corner, your soul knows when you're not released to leave, your soul knows that there's more inside of you and that you would rather just stay down on the mat of life rather than getting back up.

7:35And so I want to speak to that shred of belief inside a person that is speaking truth over their life. You may be down, but you're not out. So how do we encourage people to get back up? Now, this isn't like a rah, rah, sis, boom, bah type of book. I wanted practical handles. Like I wanted a playbook because people can write off easily and say, oh, I'm not resilient. I don't have great. It's a learned discipline. So the background for that is it's actually for me, it was really the story of my life. And in this current season of my life, I'm living out these practical principles because I have a lot of excuses, legitimate excuses to walk away right now.

8:14And I'm choosing to remain because I know the person that is being developed is going to be the person that will cause transformation, not just in my life, but the life of those that are around me as well. Walk me through a little bit of your background because you touch on it. I mean, I think a lot of times authors write the books that they need the most. And in the writing process, we have God, the universe, whatever you believe in is revealing all of the truths that we are writing out, typing out and saying, are you sure? Are you sure? So talk to me a little bit about how you got to this place and what your life path has been that has led you here.

8:52Okay. So whether in ignorance or arrogance, I feel like, and I've had multiple conversations with people that have said, Oh, wow, you're such a resilient person. I would never look at my life and say, Oh, I'm resilient. But you know, in hindsight and looking back retrospectively, yeah, there's actually been a lot that I've had to overcome. So I am a first generation American, but I was illiterate up until the age of 12, morbidly obese, wrestled with weight my entire life, really coming from like a disadvantage from statisticians would have put me in a category highest prone to failure. Okay. Sister.

9:22So like there wasn't a whole lot working for me. So I think again, ignorance or arrogance, I felt like, wow, I have, you know, overcome a lot. And I could speak about this authority, but it has not been until the last five years of my life where I am literally daily making a decision because resilience is a choice. I am daily making a decision to say, I am choosing to put one foot in front of the other, come what may, come global pandemic, come a loss of a building or business profit loss, or I have a nonprofit organization that goes in to help the incarcerated. And we were actually in three local prisons.

9:59And when COVID happened. We lost all the campuses. I mean, we invested$75 ,000 into these campuses. So it's a decision. It is an absolute decision that I'm making. And some of the things that I've had to overcome previously, a lot of people can look at their childhood and say that there was a lot. What we're not talking about is the now, like culturally, politically, financially, relationally, spiritually, girl, there is something over the globe. And I just want to put, I want to lick my finger and stick it into the air and say, where's the wind blowing? And how do we speak to that? And that's, that's how we landed here with this book and really wanting to resource people.

10:38One thing that you said that I love is that resilience isn't just something that's innate. It's a skill that you have to hone. And when I worked in the corporate world, there was actually a checkbox when you would do a leadership survey of resilient and adaptable. That was a theme that you could call out in different people, but it was also something that could be developed. Walk me through what you think of when you think about resilience, because I do think a lot of people just think I am either resilient or I am not. You could have very easily said, the statistician says, I'm not going to be a success, therefore I will not.

11:14So if someone is listening and they're like, I am not resilient, what would you say to them? One, let me just say, I validate what you're saying and you're not alone, but I also want to be the voice that says, but that's not the full story. And the impetus of this book was I was sitting across a coffee table from somebody who was going through a divorce. She's very successful, very financially established. And she, you would have looked at her life here in Orange County, California and said, wow, she's the quintessential Orange County bougie woman. And she has it all, but she's going through a divorce.

11:48And she candidly told me, she's like, I don't, I'm not going to take my life. I just don't want to live anymore. And that's the impetus of the conversation. And then she said, I'm just not like you, Bianca. I haven't had a life like yours. And you were made to be resilient. Almost putting poverty synonymous with resilience. But I wanted to kind of like raise a flag and say, whether it's privilege or poverty, resilience is a decision that we get to make and we can actually grow and adapt and learn. Now, science will completely back this up because no one is born with a resilient gene. Now, people might be a little bit more optimistic that I will concede to, but whether people are optimistic or pessimistic, resilience and grit is a learned attribute.

12:31And so one of the things that was so crazy, so I totally geeked out. I mean, you know this, but for the listeners, Jasmine and I were homeschooled. And so we are very dorky and we like data and stats and numbers. So I went on this rabbit hole after that conversation with that woman. And I literally just wanted to pick her up lovingly by the collar and say, my dad is a Marine and we leave no man behind. So you will not take your life. I don't have to drag you on my shoulder, but like we are getting out of here. So get up off your ASS. And I did say the word, but we have sensitive ears in the podcast.

13:01I don't want this to be an explicit show. But I literally kind of got like a little oppressive. I was like, you're giving up. And I look at a generation. I look at our culture right now. I'm like, why is everyone giving up? Get up off your ASS and start moving forward. You're not, if you're not dead, you ain't done. That's what my dad said, you know? So anyway, in all the research I started doing from MIT to Harvard to Stanford to Berkeley to Yale, there are resilient studies and they had amazing research and case studies and a lot of medicine, a lot of neuroscience that was involved in this. But I curated and called all that information and it really boiled down to these three attributes.

13:40Now, your listeners might not know this, but I'm a preacher also. So like just to have some charge in here today, they're all going to begin with the letter P because I think that helps us remember things. So for anyone, whether they get the book or not get the book, I just want to give this away because there are people out there that are saying, I'm just not gritty. I'm just not resilient. And I just want to say you are you're just not giving yourself the credit that you need. So let's put some language. So here are three hallmarks for resilient people. This is how you build resilience. The first one, you have to have a right perspective.

14:11You've got to have a right perspective of the situation. So what is perspective? It is an honest, realistic view of your current reality with hope. So we can say this sucks. My business is failing, but I have a plan. My marriage is struggling, but we're going to counseling. My child is strong on drugs, but I'm looking into rehab facilities. So it is an honest assessment of reality, buttressed with hope. That perspective, if you have the but, I feel like Sir Mix a lot. I like big butts that I cannot lie. 15 by 35. Listen, I love Jesus, but give me a good hip hop song from the 90s and I'm done. Forgive me.

14:51Okay, I'm back on track. So perspective, we have to include the butts in our perspective. So no matter what feels toxic, traumatic, you know, at a loss, we have to have the perspective that like, it's not done yet. The second thing that is wildly important and a huge hallmark for gritty and resilient people, and it's a learned attribute, is the ability to pivot. Like this is critical. So people always say, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. I want us to be some gritty hustlers out here that are saying, when life gives me lemons, I want to make lemonade and then plant the seeds for future generations.

15:25I don't just want to get what is given to me and feed the now. I want to think about future generations. So if there is a hurdle in front of me, if there's a wall in front of me, if there's an obstacle in front of me, I'm not just going to think, okay, this is where I stop. I have to pivot. If this isn't working, I have to figure out a new way to make it work. So I love this line from a show called Project Runway. It was like a reality show. Yes. Okay. Do you remember Tim Gunn? I have unlocked a new level of parenting because now Coco will watch it with me. So we get like 20 minutes a day that we'll sit down and watch it together.

15:58And she's like, oh no, is he going home? Oh, he's saved. Like it is next level unlock. Okay. So what line are you about to say? Do you remember Tim Gunn? Yes, of course. What was his famous line when he's working with designers and they're running out of time or they're looking, isn't looking and they're struggling and something happens. What does he tell them? To pivot. Make it work. Yep. That was his right. Make it work. Yep. Make it work. Figure it out. This is our road to pivot. And then lastly, and this is the hard one for a lot of people, it's purpose. So you have to have the right perspective.

16:31You have to have the ability to pivot. And then lastly, you have to see the purpose in the midst of the pain. So where people most likely give up is when there is trial, trauma, or tribulation, a crisis, the poop hits the fan. And then everyone's like, you know what, this is a sign I'm not supposed to do it. Maybe it's a sign you are supposed to do it. And everything is pushing against because when you accomplish it, you will be confirmed in your heart and your mind and your soul that you were destined to do what you knew that you were called to do. This study of finding purpose in the pain has come out of some research that actually came out of the Holocaust and survivors of the Holocaust, those that went on to not just survive, but thrive were the ones that were able to discover a purpose in the midst of their pain.

17:13And so my fear in saying this is that there's someone out there that's listening and saying like, well, are you saying that my business loss was a good thing or the loss of my spouse is a good thing? No, I'm not. And I'm sorry for the pain, but as someone who is walking through pain, as someone who is in this, it may not make sense now, but I'm choosing to believe that it will make sense later. I'm going to look for the diamond in the darkness of a coal mine. I'm going to look for the glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel. But those three attributes, anybody, whether they feel like they're resilient or not, can employ into their life and really be a game changer.

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22:09Like you understand that this is like a roller coaster of like highs and lows. And so what would you say for someone who is listening right now and they're at a low and they're like, okay, so should I not quit? Should I quit? How do I know when it's right to walk away from something? How do I keep pushing on? Like, how do we get that level of discernment in our life of like quitting doesn't always mean failure, but sometimes quitting is the right move to guide you to success. How do we differentiate those two things? You know what? I think that you're brilliant because the book is out this week and I have done a number of PR and press related things, podcasts, and you are not just good at what you do, but you're good at listening to the meta narrative.

22:52It's like, what are the things that are said, but you also listen to the things that are unsaid. And so I think this is critical for entrepreneurs. I mean, this is critical for us in any season because there's people right now listening that they're like, my business is wildly successful, but my friendship with this individual, it just, it's horrible. It's tore up from the floor up, or, you know, maybe I need to leave my church, or maybe I need to leave my job. Maybe I need to leave this cubicle, whatever it is. And so the big message of this book is, yeah, don't quit. And here's how to not quit.

23:18However, there's a caveat in the beginning and a caveat at the end. Beginning is a famous line by Kenny Rogers. You got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. So like, I don't want anyone to stay in a toxic environment or an abusive relationship, or if there's infidelity, this is not a bandaid for a bullet wound. So that's the caveat of the beginning. But at the end, after I've given people practical handles on what to do to be resilient and not quit is at the end in the appendix, I wanted to have a conversation because I brought it up with my editor. I'm like, here I am telling people not to quit, but I do think that there are times that we should quit.

23:50But what I want people to know is like how you end one season is how you'll begin the next season. So let's make sure that the time is right. Maybe the feeling is right, but the timing is wrong. So here I crafted five questions and I want to just, yes, it's in the book. My publisher is going to hate me for like giving this content away, but I don't care. Cause I really just want to help people. There are five questions in general. We can role play this and we can think through this because I really want your perspective on this as well. You hear so much. You talk to so many people, you coach and help so many other people.