713: Is “Balance” A Myth? This Startup Founder Thinks So

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

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1:13Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. I'm in a process now five years into my journey of trying to just get back in touch and re-sync with people. But I think it's just having to be okay with not being able to prioritize everything and do everything perfectly, but giving your all to the things that really are going to add the most value to your life in that moment. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business.

1:52I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger podcast. I've got news for you. If you're digging an ambitious goal of building a hugely successful business and brand, it's not always going to be possible to achieve the perfect balance between work and life and hustle and rest.

2:27Most founders would agree that running a business is like a series of sprints and cool downs. You might be constantly exhausted, running at peak intensity, putting out fires. And then there may be these rare quiet periods or pockets or lulls where you can finally catch your breath before the sprint begins again. In fact, some may even say that balance can't possibly exist during the first few years of entrepreneurship. My guest today is the founder of Claire. It's a next generation paint brand that is completely re-imagining the paint experience and how you shop for it. When it comes to ups and downs in her business, Nicole Gibbons has experienced them all from peak productivity to burnout, from constantly having to make difficult trade-offs to leaning into what that means for her and her life.

3:13In our conversation today, Nicole is sharing her perspective on why she believes that balance is a myth and why that's okay. Plus her tactic of rebalancing or recalibrating on a regular basis in order to thrive during those more intense times, and the reality of what it's really like to be funded by venture capital. It is such a treat to get to chat with her about the ebbs and the flows of business, the different seasons and stages of life, the different styles of entrepreneurship, and how it all affects our lives and our businesses. What if you could find, track, and close deals all in one place?

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4:27Visit HubSpot.com slash sales to learn more. That's HubSpot.com slash sales. Big thanks to This Is Small Business for sponsoring this show. This Is Small Business is an original podcast from Amazon all about how to start and grow your small business. Listen now on your favorite podcast app. Okay, Nicole, I was blessed to be exposed to your work a few years ago, and you have been someone that has been on my radar, someone that I've been excited to have a conversation with. So welcome to the Gold Digger podcast. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here and the feeling is mutual. I've been following you for forever and listen to your podcast.

5:09So I could not be more excited for this combo. Oh my gosh. Okay. So there's so many pieces of your story that I want to dive into. You were in PR, you grinded in a full-time job while you were starting your side hustles. You transitioned from blogger to personality to fundraising for this amazing company. Your story has so many different chapters in it. And so can you share a little bit first about where we find you today? What are you doing today? And then we'll kind of go back a little ways because we can't start this conversation without starting with where you began. Yeah, absolutely. So I am the founder and CEO of a company called Claire.

5:50We're a modern paint brand that just simply makes the process of buying paint for your home really easy, really inspiring, curated colors, none of the hassle of kind of shopping with traditional paint brands. And we're five years into our journey. So it's been quite a ride. That's incredible. So walk me through a little bit about your past. I loved hearing your story and I would love for our listeners to hear a little bit about kind of your journey, because I feel like you have done so many different things. You've lived a million lifetimes in your young years. So where did you begin and where did it kind of unfold for you?

6:25Oh my gosh. So I started my career in PR working for Victoria's Secret, which is a crazy job to have out of college. I was doing the fashion shows, all the TV specials was nuts. Then I was always passionate about design though. So I was basically hawking bras and panties for a living, but all I thought about was interior design and home. And, you know, I loved Martha Stewart. Like the greatest day of my life is when Martha Stewart came to our fashion show and I got to take her on a tour of the backstage. You know, I didn't care about like whatever musical artist was performing, I was like, I got to meet Martha Stewart.

7:01It was amazing. So that was kind of the, you know, what I was inspired by. And I felt very odd compared to my peers because everyone was so into fashion and beauty. And I was like, I'm going to be the next Martha Stewart. So while in that day job, I started side hustling in 2008. So it was the great recession or the last great recession. We're kind of in a weird space now, but it was like pretty bad in 2008, 2009, the literal banking system collapsed. It was a lot of fear and anxiety. People were losing their jobs. It was crazy. So I knew that I wasn't going to quit my day job, but I started a side hustle design business.

7:35I also started my decorating blog at the same time and loved it. I had immediately felt like I found my calling. I knew that was the path that I wanted to pursue. And the only roadblock, there were really two roadblocks. One was, wasn't a great time in the economy to be trying to start a business, But also I wasn't confident enough. I felt like I had a lot more to learn before I could confidently go out on my own and feel like I would be successful. I tend to be a planner. I'm not kind of like a fly by the seat of your pants. I'll figure it out later type of person. So I wanted to feel ready and have kind of like a plan of what I would do for a second third.

8:10So fast forward 2013, I pivoted to focusing on building my design firm and myself as a personality full time. I felt that the TV stuff and the media stuff was a little bit of a harder nut to crack. So I focused on that first. I booked a role on a DIY decorating show on the Oprah Winfrey Network. So I did that where I was one of three designers on the show, but we each hosted our own episodes. Yes. And made over the homes of deserving families. I did the morning show circuit, you know, giving everyday viewers decor tips and started working with private clients in and around New York City. And in the background, I just kept thinking about, you know, this idea that I really wanted to build a brand.

8:46and circling back to Martha Stewart, I was always inspired by how she built her brand. She took her love and passion for food and lifestyle and home and turned it into literally every product category you can think of from like office supplies at Staples to pet accessories and like pet code to like home stuff at Macy's and beyond. And like, I really felt like there wasn't anyone young doing that. There wasn't anyone young and exciting and inspiring really building a brand in home in the same kind of way that she did. I think Nate Berkus is definitely the closest example, but there's still a little bit of a generational gap in terms of, you know, even where Martha is and where he is.

9:25And then I think we're kind of, you know, folks that, you know, might follow me are. And so I thought that I could be that. I could be that voice of authority on home for people who were younger and passionate about their homes and wanted to mix high and low and all that kind of stuff. And after about five years of grinding at doing my design business, being a personality, kind of sort of dipping a toe at being an influencer, I was like, I want to build a brand. What is it? What is that thing? The first wave of direct consumer brands like Warby Parker and Casper were really inspiring to me. And this idea that I could build a brand from the ground up and have a lot of upside, you know, ideally build a brand that could someday become a billion dollar brand and be able to walk away with this massive legacy.

10:07So I decided to go big or go home. And instead of starting a smaller business or a lifestyle business. I was like, I'm going to go after a venture scale business and paint felt like the right category. I love color. I felt I could add a lot of value to building a better brand. And at the time, everybody thought I was nuts for saying that I'm going to start a paint brand. My own mom was like a paint company. That doesn't make sense. How are you going to make paint? You know, but like, yeah, literally I did it here. We are. So that's kind of the story in a nutshell. Look, I've become kind of a systems nerd and anything that gives me more space in my day, I'm all in.

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12:48Go to shopify.com slash gold digger. Shopify.com slash gold digger. it's so I mean there's so many things inside of that Nicole and I just love that you saw a different path because I think that a lot of people focus so much on building the personal brand and the personal business and I feel like to have that foresight of like I want to build something that isn't around me that could someday maybe be purchased or acquired or go public that's a whole different vision. Like how was that even on your radar? Because I feel like for a lot of women, that isn't something that we see enough or hear about enough to even consider it, especially in those early days.

13:30Yeah. Well, so I'm a nerd. I have always followed technology and startups. So like in the world of Silicon Valley, which is this sort of mythical place out there in the universe, but really it's a really ecosystem of startups and venture capitalists and all of that. There were early founders who built companies that were really groundbreaking, and they made a lot of money in those ventures. I think the most widely known examples are, think of like Mark Zuckerberg starting Facebook in his dorm room and the multi-billion dollar behemoth that Meta is today, right? So just this idea that anyone young could build something that's really pioneering.

14:05I looked at the kid who started Napster, who was also one of the early investors in Facebook. We're practically the same age. And I felt like before Napster, MP3s didn't exist. People didn't listen to music digitally. We had Walkmans and Discmans and put CDs and contraptions to listen to music. Girl, I still have a cassette player in my car. So you're speaking to me. I get it. I get it. But yeah. So I was like, this kid who's my age just changed the way we consume music today. That to me was like incredible. And so I kept, I always started following these sort of innovation stories, even in industries and where I wasn't personally passionate about, but their stories inspired me.

14:43Another app that now maybe isn't as widely exciting anymore, but like when Evernote came out, it was like a groundbreaking note-taking app. And they were like acquiring millions of users so fast and that company valuation was so crazy. And, you know, so I kind of followed their journey and a lot of those startups. And I was like, I want to do that. And I remember in 2010, I was still working at Victoria's Secret and I still have this in an Evernote. That's why I was able to go back and look at it. And I was like, okay, one day I'm going to build a company like this, let me start taking notes on who all of the VCs are.

15:13One of the venture funds on that list was first round capital and they were the biggest investors in our seed round. Wow. You know, many years later. So it was nuts, but it was so full circle. Crazy. So walk me through Claire and how you got to where you are. So you had to raise money. What was that process like? And when was that hitting? Well, first I want to talk about the sacrifice that I made to even be able to raise money. I had a successful design firm. I was doing media and I was actually making a decent amount of money. I was making more as a, whatever you want to call it, multi-hyphenate personality than I was in my day job at Victoria's Secret.

15:55And I decided to stop all of that for a short period of time to explore this idea of building a paint company. So initially I said, I'm going to take a quarter off. I'm not going to take on any new business or do anything other than this. And that meant no income for a quarter. But after about a month, I was all in. So I made a commitment to not make any money for that whole entire year. I did a couple little small things, but I basically had no income in 2017. And spending the time, because the amount of time it actually required to be able to build the foundation of this business enough to be able to raise capital, it took every ounce of my time and energy that year.

16:32Wow. So that whole year of 2017, I learned how venture capital even works. Yeah. And just started working on it. It is. I mean, it was a total mystery to me. I don't come from a, like a, you know, a family or kind of socioeconomic background where like, I know venture capitalists in my real life. Like I don't even know how it works. I didn't even know how it worked. So, you know, I just spent the whole year both learning the paint business, but also learning the VC game and who the venture capitalists are. How do you go about raising money? How do you sell your idea? How do you build enough of a proof of concept or create enough conviction for somebody to drop millions of dollars on an idea?

17:13Like that took a lot of time and energy. People are like, oh, overnight, you just raised 2 million bucks, but it actually took nine months, almost a whole entire calendar year to close the whole round. But I didn't start even fundraising until nine months after making the decision to commit. All I can think about as a mom is that's the length of a pregnancy. So your baby was born and all of a sudden now you can present it to these investors. You know, what's so interesting to me, and I heard this in another interview you did is that you were kind of looking at all of the design space, right? And everything was so archaic.

17:46Like we just went through the process of building a home and there are certain aspects of home design that just have never been updated. And so when it came to paint, what was the process? Like, how did you determine like paint is the thing you love color? Great. But like, that is a still very archaic old school system. And so how did you figure out that? Like there could be a different way for doing that? Because I think that what's so interesting about entrepreneurship is a lot of times we see this problem, but we're not quick to qualify ourselves as the solution. And you did that when it came to paint.

18:22Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was kind of audacious because I'm, I don't, looking back on it, I'm like, who did I think I was to be able to actually do this, you know? And I think you, you have to have that blind faith and optimism as a founder. Otherwise you'll never do it because there's going to be a million people and a million reasons why it won't work, but you've got to have conviction. But I think what it was is I thought about everything. I thought about so many different categories. And my first step was always doing a little bit of diligence on the market. What are the brands in this space?

18:48Where are they sold? How much are they, you know, what is the size of like, you know, how much paint is sold in the U.S.? What's the market opportunity in terms of like billions of dollars, right? Right. And so when I started studying the paint industry, and I also studied a lot of the startups too that like were seemingly successful at their start. So like the Warby Parkers and Caspers and just kind of how they tackled their industry. So I kind of just took a lot of that thinking and I applied it to how I diligent to paint market. And so the first thing was like, how big is the market opportunity?

19:18Okay. It's$155 billion global industry in the U.S. It's like, you know, a lot, I think at the time and it's grown, the market's grown, but, you know, you know, at least 50, 60 billion here in the U.S. And so I'm like, even if we took a sliver of that, we could have a massive business. So that's kind of where I started. And then it's like, OK, who are the brands? And then when I looked at it, it was like, OK, Sherwin-Williams. OK, they're 150 year old company, like literally started in the 1800s. Benjamin Moore. Okay. Yep. Another hundred plus year old company. I realized these companies were all a hundred plus years old, started in the 1800s, no innovation, very old school.

19:55You talked about the process of, of designing your new home. The home improvement industry in general is so behind the times. So to anyone out there who wants to try to think of a big business idea, figure out something else in home improvement to solve because it's all archaic. And I think when I realized that the brands who are in the space are so out of touch and maybe beholden to one way of doing things that it would be very difficult for them to step outside that box and innovate. I felt that I could build something that could be a value to one of those companies someday. And that's how I thought about it.

20:29Do you like fast paced and packed with value stories of successful entrepreneurs from failures to aha moments to what's working for them today? If so, you will love Entrepreneurs on Fire, hosted by my friend, John Lee Dumas. Entrepreneurs on Fire stokes inspiration and shares strategies to fire up your entrepreneurial journey and create the life you've always dreamed of. The recent episodes about starting an RV rental business, the future of real estate, and how to cultivate a mindset of resilience have all got my wheels turning on how to generate more revenue and fulfillment. Listen to Entrepreneurs on Fire wherever you get your podcasts.

21:07One of the toughest parts about starting and growing your own business is figuring out how much you should charge. Like what is your product actually worth? And what do you need to charge in order to make a profit? There's a recent episode of this great podcast called This Is Small Business that talks all about this. You'll learn how to figure out what customers are willing to pay and when you should start thinking about raising your prices. It's called How to Find Your Ideal Price Point and you can go listen to it right now. This Is Small Business answers so many of these kinds of questions, questions that all entrepreneurs have, whether you're dreaming of starting your business, looking to take a part-time side hustle full-time, or maybe you're a few years in and you are ready to grow.

21:48This show covers it all, like how to find your ideal customer, how to know when you're ready to launch your product, how to hire your first employee, why you should protect your intellectual property, and tons more. Learn more about how to start and grow your small business. Check out This is Small Business, an original podcast from Amazon on your favorite podcast app. I love that you looked at it and you didn't say, well, this is just the way it is, but you're like, there's a different way it could be, which I think is so powerful. Yeah. And I really thought about the outcome. It's like, okay, because I'm an entrepreneur at heart.

22:22I didn't build a business to run it forever. I built a business to hopefully sell it and create a legacy and have it hopefully live forever. And so I thought a lot about like, who would be the type of company that would buy a company like this. And when I realized there probably was a market for it, for the company, to buy the company someday, I'm like, you know, billion dollar companies with billions of dollars of cash, you know, sitting in their balance sheet, like sell this company someday. I love that. One thing I'm curious about, because I have watched people in that startup world and we referenced Silicon Valley and that world is that there is one really prevalent theme for people working in that world.

23:03And that theme is burnout, right? It is a common challenge for all entrepreneurs. Pretty much anyone listening to this that has tried to start something has likely experienced some semblance of burnout, whether in their business or their life. Can you tell me about what that's been like? Because what you're sharing and the success you've had and the ability to raise funds and the ability to persevere and really pave an entirely new path in an industry that has been around for over a hundred years like this probably didn't come without a sliver of burnout on the side. Can you talk to me a little bit about that?

23:40Yeah. And I have experience running a different type of business too. And I thought I was busy then. And I thought I was kind of, I look back and I'm like, that was the most luxurious life I, yeah, I could ever want. That's probably how I feel with having kids now. Like what did I do with all my time. What did I do? But I get it. I had so much more freedom and flexibility. And I think the difference was I wasn't accountable to anyone else but myself. And what people don't realize, because you're right, you see people on Instagram and this girl boss raised jillions of dollars. What you don't realize is all the strings that come attached with that.

24:11So what people don't know is when you raise capital, venture funds are set up with a structure that they're expecting a certain retirement at a certain time horizon. And in order to continue raising capital, you have to hit a milestone within a really finite amount of time. And usually it's about two years. So you have, if you want to continue raising venture to get to the size where you believe you can sell your company someday, you have to bust your ass to hit every single milestone or else you won't be able to raise any more capital and your company's at risk. There's been tons of businesses that have had to shut down completely and cease to exist because they weren't able to execute.