718: How to ACTUALLY Make Money As A Podcaster

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

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1:15So happy shopping. We have used the podcast to grow my email list, using your show as an invitation for your listeners to opt in to get an additional resource or a freebie or access to something is an amazing way to grow the bottom line of your business. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore.

1:54Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger Podcast. Have you ever dreamt of having your own podcast? There's something amazing about podcasting. Not only can they help you build your business, but they can become your business. Over the last seven years, I've sat behind a mic and shared my story. I've been able to personalize my brand, build my credibility and interview some of my heroes.

2:33Plus I've been able to make millions just through sharing my journey and teaching what I've learned and holding space for others to share their stories on my show. Now I know that the thought of starting a podcast might feel overwhelming. You've got the equipment and the tech and you're worried, should I really invest in all of this? Is this actually a viable option for generating revenue. But don't worry, because between affiliate marketing, sponsorships, providing premium content, and so much more, there are a lot of different ways that you can monetize your show. Inside of this episode, I'm going to give you tactical ways that you can start monetizing your show with intentional strategy right from the jump and help you understand what the potential looks like as you grow.

3:17Now, real quick before we dive in, if you want to learn more about the world of podcasting and how starting your own podcast is actually way easier than you're thinking, head to freepodcastclass.com. That's freepodcastclass.com. Save your seat for my free training. It's called Podcasting 101, Three Easy Steps to Launch Your Show. I'll walk you through how you can quickly and easily get your show off the ground. Again, that's freepodcastclass.com. Now, are you ready to dive on in? Whatever your niche is, these monetization ways will work for you. So let's get into the nitty gritty of how much you can make and how to do it with your very own podcast.

3:57You know what time it is, sweater weather, football season, Q4. It's the homestretch gold diggers, and it's time to close out another year of growth and prep for the next year of revenue. To bring in more businesses, Q4 and beyond, you need sales software that helps you score. And the top tools are all inside the new HubSpot sales hub. With a customizable prospecting workspace, smart deal management suite, and AI-powered apps, you can take total control of your sales operation and manage your people and pipeline with ease. The AI-powered chat spot speeds up your day-to-day tasks with simple chat solutions, while AI Assistant cranks out copy, outlines, and out-of-the-box ideas.

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5:19Podcasting has absolutely changed and transformed my life. And before we dive into actually driving results, I want to hit on one thing that I don't think we talk about enough when it comes to the world of podcasting. And that is that a podcast allows you to build trust and credibility, which to me is worth its weight in gold. And it will likely help you connect the dots to getting the results that you want from your show. If you do not build up the know, like, and trust factor with your show, you're likely not going to get results. Even if you use every monetization strategy that I share in this episode, building up your credibility through your show, through showing up consistently with quality information, with incredible statistics and facts that you've fact checked with brilliant guests that you love and want to support with engaging community.

6:05There are so many ways that you can do this. And so I don't want to just scooch on to the ways that you can monetize without hitting on the fact that having a podcast can help build your credibility through so many different means. And we don't want to miss that part of the step. You have to have engaging content that people want to tune into so that you can actually drive the results. So I want to lead with the content and credibility first, because without those things, it's going to be very hard to monetize. The next thing that I want to talk about is the fact that you get to choose what your show does.

6:39Your show can spark joy. It can educate people. It can teach systems. It can tell stories. There are so many different ways that your podcast can serve people. It doesn't all have to be strategy. Like I like to teach. It can be so many different things. And as you start to think about how can I build that trust and credibility? the number one way that you do that is through consistently showing up with quality content. And so I want to blanket all of these monetization strategies with this emphasis on focusing on the quality, consistent, and credible content that is going to help your show soar above the rest.

7:17So as we start to talk about monetizing podcasts, I have monetized my show in a million different ways, or at least what feels like it. So I started my podcast back in 2016. And today I'm going to highlight the different methods that I've used to monetize my show. The one thing I wish I would have known back when I started, and I would do it differently if I were to start over again. And some of the strategies that I haven't yet tried, but I might consider trying in the future. So first, let me give you a little history of how I've monetized my show. So I started my show back in 2016, it was literally thought of as an experiment.

7:55I was in the off season of my wedding photography career. I had some months off and I was like, I'm just going to try this for like 90 days and see what happens. Now, as you can tell years and years and years and hundreds of episodes and a hundred million downloads later, it worked. But when I was first starting out, there are a few things that I knew. Now I had already been an entrepreneur for some time. I had already built a six figure business. And I had already learned the power of outsourcing. When I first started my show, I did not want to take on and wear all the hats that were required to produce and edit and record a podcast.

8:30I wanted to do the one thing that I loved and get rid of the rest. And so right off the bat, I was very dead set on not incurring any debt to create my podcast. Now there are a million ways you can do this. I'm just sharing how I did it. So at the time I had already established a partnership with a brand called HoneyBook. It was the software that I use and love. I still use and love it to this day. Any guest that comes on this podcast has signed a contract that we've sent via HoneyBook. And I asked them, I said, here's the vision for this. Would you consider just covering my expenses if I mentioned you in every single episode?

9:04And they said, yes. And so at the very beginning of my podcast, they were paying me, I believe it was either 200 or$250 per show, which is basically covering all of the expenses of getting my show up and running, having me have an editor that could edit the episodes and so on and so forth. And so that was the very beginning of the show. So if you go back to episode number one, you'll probably hear me talk about HoneyBook. Again, it's something I still use and love all of these years later. And I'm really grateful that they took a chance on me because we had no idea what the show would become. We had no idea what it would look like.

9:36We didn't know if it was going to work or flop. And they took a chance on me. And I know that it's not likely that you would be able to start off the bat with a paid sponsor, but I wanted to share that piece of it because I was at a place where I was like, I really want to do this thing. I don't want to go in debt for this thing. And I also don't want to wear all the hats. I had already done all of that in my other business. And so I started it in a really unique way. After we transitioned out of that model, I actually went to a no ad model. So I started using my podcast in another means to grow my email list, which I'll talk about in just a little bit.

10:09But I decided for over a year, I believe almost two years, I had zero paid ads on the show. I wanted to use it to promote my own business and to grow my own business. After that, I switched to an ad agency, which was basically someone that was filtering through all of these different ad requests, giving me different propositions and different potential sponsors. I would say yes or no. And we did that for a few years. After that, I ended up joining a network, the HubSpot Podcast Network, which I've been a part of for over two years. And I love them. And that was the monetization strategy. And now today, I am doing a hybrid of about four of those things.

10:45So the hybrid right now is being a part of the HubSpot podcast network, working with a new agency, promoting my own stuff and having affiliate partnerships. We're going to break down all of these, but I wanted to share that I am very well versed in this world after running a podcast for six years and using and leveraging all of these different strategies at different times in my podcast. And the best thing is, is that each one served a purpose for the time and season that we were doing it. And so I have zero regrets about how we've done this. So first things first, you're probably wondering, okay, how much can a podcaster actually make?

11:20So something that I did not understand and still struggle to understand as a podcaster is that podcasters charge for ads based on the number of people who have listened to the episode. So that makes sense to me. It's like, how many people are going to be exposed to this app. This is known as a cost per thousand impressions or CPM. Now this is where it gets a little dicey. People are like, what is CPM? So CPM is cost per mil, M-I-L-L-E, which is cost per 1000 impressions. Your CPM typically can range anywhere from$20 CPM to$100 CPM, usually calculated at a dollar per 1000 listens. So for example, if your podcast had a hundred thousand downloads per episode and you're paid$25 CPM for an advertising campaign, your total income for that episode would be 25 times 100 equals$2 ,500 per episode.

12:17So that is an interesting world in podcasting. And it's so fascinating to me because there are some different ways that brands do this. So sometimes they'll look at like, okay, how many downloads did your show get for that episode in 30 days? Sometimes they're looking at 60 days. There's all these different windows. It can feel really complicated. And to be honest, it still feels complicated to me. But the number one thing that brands are looking for is how many downloads, how many people are going to actually hear this ad in the next 30, 60, 90 days. Now, as in any other industry, some key metrics are used in podcasting to measure your success.

12:55The main metric that people are looking for when considering sponsoring a podcast is the number of downloads. Your potential funders and sponsors are going to start taking a look at the number of downloads you have either per episode or for your show for the month so that they can understand how many listeners you have. This is going to help them obviously know how many people their ad can reach. So if you want to start monetizing your show through advertising, the goal should be to have at least 5 ,000 downloads per month. And that is generally on the low end of the spectrum in terms of what sponsors require to consider collaboration.

13:33Again, 5 ,000 downloads per month, that's on the low end, but that doesn't mean that people aren't willing to do that. I think micro influencers, micro podcasters are on the rise. Now for a lot of the bigger brands, they're looking at least 10 ,000 downloads. According to IWillTeachYouToBeRich.com, A podcaster who has around 10 ,000 downloads can expect to make anywhere between$500 and$900 per month. So that's pretty sizable, right? I was also curious as I was pulling all this together to kind of hear what some of those astronomical numbers are in the world of podcasting. So the Joe Rogan experience, his show has over 190 million downloads per month, bringing in$60 million in revenue per year and making it the highest earning podcast on the list.

14:17the Ramsey show that show earns around$10 million per year crime junkie. We've had Ashley flowers on this podcast. It's a famous true crime podcast. The estimated net worth of this show is around$6 million per year. So you can see like there's money to be made, but like those are the outliers. So how do we talk about you and what's possible? So just recently, one of my dear friends messaged me. She has an audience on other platforms. She's well-known and she's deciding to start a podcast. And she launched her podcast. I reached out to her and just like, congratulations on your show. I'm so excited for you.

14:52How are you feeling? And she messaged me back and she's like, okay, this is amazing. This is also a little bit harder than I thought it was going to be. And I want to get paid for my work. And I said, okay, fair points on all ends of the spectrum. And she goes, how do I get an agency? And I said, okay, let's hold on a minute. There are other methods that you can use to monetize while you get your footing. And while you make sure that running a podcast is something that you actually want to do consistently. One thing that I think is so powerful for podcasters is to gain your footing on your own terms and to really be sure this is something that I want to do consistently and ongoing.

15:30And so what happens is a lot of times people will start it. They realize, okay, there is a little bit more work than I was anticipating here. I need to build out the systems, but I also want to figure out how do I get paid for this? It's natural, right? When we're working hard at something. So I told her, I said, pump the brakes on this idea of having an agency. Cause the minute you get an agency, you now have created a job for yourself. There are different ways that you can do this. So one of the first ways that I recommend early podcasters monetizing their show, which will reap dividends for hopefully months and years to come is through affiliate marketing.

16:03So affiliate marketing in a general sense is promoting products and services related to your podcast content so that you can earn a commission for each sale made through your link or your code. So what do I mean by this? This is an amazing way to start monetizing. Now, here's what I would do differently if I were starting my show all over again. Now, I'm so grateful that HoneyBook supported me from the very first episode. But if I would have been thinking more strategically, I would have told them, don't pay me a flat rate. Let me use my affiliate link in all of these episodes. if just one person signed up from that link from each episode, I would have earned the same amount.

16:43If two people signed up, I would have earned double. And you can see that that revenue could build very easily over time. So basically they were banking that they were going to pay me a certain amount of money, flat rate for the episode. And if just one person who listened to that episode signed up, they made their money back. Now the smart play on my end would have been to use an affiliate code for all of those early episodes so that as people go back to episode number one, because guess what? There are still people going back to episode number one every single day of my show. I would have had more opportunities to grow the affiliate revenue or that partner revenue than I would if I would have just collected the flat rate, which is what I did.

17:23So I told my friend, I said, Hey, think about like five brands that you use and love and you love talking about anyways, check out and see if they have an affiliate program. This is a place where you can get one of those ugly links that is like refer a friend or share your code and your friend can get a free 30 % off or a free lip balm or whatever that is. I said, then inside of your podcast, talk about those brands and have those links linked up in your show description. If you have show notes there, your link in your bio, all of the different places. I said, this is an amazing way to monetize.

17:59You're not building yourself a job. You're able to track your results and see what is actually resonating with your audience. And then you have more leverage to go to these brands later on and say, Hey, do you want to pay me to do this? Or can you give me a more significant offer? Or can you give me a better commission? So this is an amazing route. If you are just starting out and you want to leverage partner links in order to get data points, to see what offers are working and to build deeper brand connections. This will also help you drive strategic income from the very beginning of your show without it feeling like it is written with ads.

18:33So here's kind of a funny story. So when I was starting my show, Drew and I were newly married. We had just moved into this beautiful craftsman home on the river. I was very deep in the trenches of entrepreneurship. I was in those like hustle days and I will never forget. There was this point of contention. Drew would get home from work. I would be working all day. And all of of a sudden, every night we would say, what are we going to eat for dinner? And we would argue about dinner. It was like this one thing in our lives that just drove us crazy. And so finally, I decided, okay, I'm going to sign us up for HelloFresh.

19:05Let's just try it out. Let's see if it works. Let's see if we like it. So I signed us up for HelloFresh. We started getting boxes of food and I recognized that they had this great affiliate program where someone could sign up, they could save like a hundred dollars on their first box of food. And then we would get a free box for every person who signed up. So I started leaving links in my podcast. If you want to see what I created when I did this, go to Jenna Kutcher.com slash HelloFresh. I created the simplest landing page with a button that connects to my refer a friend link. And so many people clicked it that we ended up getting free groceries for an entire year.

19:43HelloFresh was not paying me. They didn't even know I existed. They just knew that I was bringing people in and telling people about them because they had been a massive solution in my life. So did my podcast actually make a lot of money? No, but did it save us money on groceries? Yes. And that was totally worth it to me. So I was telling my friend this story and she's like, that's genius. And I was like, think about things that you already talked about that you naturally want to talk about. There are other benefits to this method as well, because once you start getting paid by brands, you get these like full blown scripts.

20:13Like if you've ever listened to a podcast and they have a brand and they're talking about the brand and they're saying all these things that they wouldn't normally as the hosts say, they're reading a script. It's not a bad thing. It's not good or bad. It's very neutral. It's part of the job of reading scripts. But when you do affiliate stuff, you get to talk about it however you want to talk about it. So you don't have to hit certain bullet points and read and sound like a robot. You get to say whatever you want to say. Like we still use and love HelloFresh. And so go to JennaKutcher.com slash HelloFresh.

20:41We love them. And the funniest thing is, is that they recently wanted to come back and sponsor our show. And so you might've heard ads for them recently. And it was funny because I told them, I was like, you guys, like six years ago, I started talking about them for free on my show so that we could get our groceries paid for. So this would be the method that I would do if I were going to start over again is look for brands that I use and love that I love to talk about that already have partner programs, either create a very simple landing page that links to the button that tracks my link or just send people to that link itself.

21:14And voila, you now can track your actual results, see what your podcast is generating, see what kind of rewards and results you're getting from these brands and have more leverage for future partnerships. I love that method. If you love the Gold Digger podcast, you've probably heard me talk about my best friend, Amy Porterfield. Did you know that she has her own marketing podcast too? It's actually the first podcast I ever listened to. Online Marketing Made Easy is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Every episode focuses on giving you the best strategies for online business owners, including starting a digital course, growing your email list, social media content creation, and hosting webinars.

21:57Amy is the best at breaking down big ideas and strategies into actionable step-by-step processes. And her show is designed to get you more results with a whole lot less stress. Tune in to Online Marketing Made Easy wherever you get your podcasts. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales. And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business. You need a website, payment systems, a logo, and a way to reach customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but thankfully, that's where today's sponsor, Shopify, comes in. Shopify powers millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all U.S.

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