739: Surprising Signs You Might Have ADHD

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1:15So happy shopping. You've got this voice that's constantly saying, you know, what's wrong with me? Why can't I do what everybody else is doing? Why am I always late? Why can't I turn my homework on in time? You're beating yourself up. And over time that can cause anxiety and depression. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business.

1:51I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger podcast. As an adult, it's not often that we learn new things about ourselves. For me, by the time I hit 30, I thought I pretty much had myself and everything else figured out, right? Well, it turns out I was wrong, like very wrong.

2:27And my guest today changed my life back in 2021 when she came onto my podcast and uncovered a massive missing piece of my identity, something I will forever be grateful for. Tracy Otsuka is a certified ADHD coach and author and the host of the wildly popular podcast, ADHD for smart-ass women. Today, we're diving into the misunderstood world of ADHD in women, challenging stereotypes, and reshaping perceptions. Now she's back on my show in May of 2021, and I can't even tell you how much Gold Diggers loved her conversation. Her work is seriously a breath of fresh air for ADHD women, and it provides this roadmap for us to turn our struggles into our strengths.

3:09Today's conversation, we're going to talk about Tracy's strength-based approach and how it can empower women to harness creativity, empathy, and our entrepreneurial spirit. We're also going to dive into some of the scientific aspects of ADHD and debunk some of the myths around it. Prepare to be inspired and challenged as Tracy shares her expertise, her stories, and her transformative message of her book. Whether you're directly impacted by ADHD or simply curious about the neurodiverse brain, this interview promises to be an eye-opener, offering this new lens to view ADHD and its place in the tapestry of human diversity.

3:46Tracy Otsuka, welcome back to the Gold Digger podcast. Your sales software shouldn't be a bummer. When you step inside your CRM, you should feel equipped to do your best work. Like you're sitting in the pilot seat with easy to use, powerful controls. And that's the magic of HubSpot Sales Hub. The new sales hub is designed to help you win quarter over quarter and year over year. With an intuitive prospecting workspace and AI powered tools that reduce your workload, managing leads is a lot less like manual labor and closing deals. It's no big deal at all. Wrangle your day-to-day tasks on a seamless platform that makes navigating contacts, calls, and analytics easy.

4:25Get AI powered tools like ChatSpot that are tailor-made to be personal assistance for your CRM. Simply prompted to pull up a contact, sum up last week's sales, or research your competitors. By automating steps across the sales pipeline, you can take back your time and spend it on more impactful tasks. Close more deals and get on track for your best Q1 yet. Learn about HubSpot Sales Hub at hubspot.com slash sales. That's hubspot.com slash sales. There are very few guests that I get to say these next words to, and this woman is absolutely one of them. Tracy Otsuka, you absolutely, without a doubt, changed my life by coming on my podcast.

5:10And what I'm excited about today is that there are so many people listening right now, right now, who are listening to this episode out of curiosity for other people, right? They're listening to this episode because they think this is an interesting thing I keep hearing about. But there are going to be people in this audience that after today's episode, their lives will also be changed. And I will never forget after we stopped recording the first interview you did on the Gold Digger podcast, you said to me this, you said, Jenna, do you want to know why I came on your podcast? And I said, why? And I had just done the entire interview through one lens.

5:49And you said, I came on your podcast because I, without a doubt, think that you have ADHD and my world cracked open. So Tracy, welcome back to the Gold Digger podcast. I am delighted to be here. And Jenna, let's get people to really lean in and let's change some lives because we're going to do it today, right? I want to say, Jenna, are you sure I said I'm absolutely certain? Wasn't it more, Jenna, I don't know. There's a lot of ADHD qualities that I think you might have. Maybe you should do a little research. I thought you came into the conversation thinking, I think I have this. I had no idea.

6:32You were like, no, this is for other people. No, I had no idea. And you know, what's so funny is that after that conversation, literally that day, I downloaded the raw audio and listened to it back through the second lens. I then sent the raw audio to my mother, my sister, my brother, and I opened up something for my entire family. And what's so interesting, Tracy, is that when we started this conversation on ADHD as a family, it was very quickly revealed that my dad had always thought he had it and no one had ever told us. And so it was one of those things that really opened things up, not just for me, but also for my entire family and also for me as a mom noticing different things in my own children.

7:19So before we get into all this, give us a quick reminder of who you are and what you do, and then we're going to crack some lives open in the best way possible. I'd love to. So obviously my name is Tracy Otsuka and I have everything ADHD for smart-ass women, including a podcast, a huge Facebook group, and now a book with HarperCollins called ADHD for smart ass women. I basically help ADHD women fall in love with their brains. There is so much about the pathology, but the truth of the matter is 43 % of people with ADHD are in excellent mental health, not okay mental health, excellent mental health.

8:04And you know, this was a big study out of Canada, came out in 2022 and nobody is talking about it. I don't understand. Instead of focusing on everything we can't do or we shouldn't be able to do, why aren't we talking about all the things we do really well? And what are those people, those 43 % of all people with ADHD that are in excellent mental health, what are they doing? Why don't we talk about that? Yes. Oh my gosh. Amazing. First off, congratulations on your book for someone with ADHD writing and getting a book to the finish line is a massive accomplishment. So huge congrats on that. It was the hardest thing I ever did.

8:46Yes, truly, truly. Okay. So let's break down because something that I think is so fascinating and the more that my eyes were open to it, the more that I have this awareness around it, is that a lot of female entrepreneurs have ADHD, whether diagnosed or undiagnosed. Why is this? What is it about us as entrepreneurs that may have that common trait? Well, a couple of things. If you think about it, if someone did poorly in school, and a lot of people with ADHD struggle in school, because number one, we have brains of interest. That means if we're really interested in something, we do really well in it.

9:30If we're not interested, we could not be bothered. So school goes wide instead of deep, right? You have to learn a little bit about a lot of stuff that you don't care about. And so what I've seen with, and I'm going to answer your question, and what I've seen with ADHD people is once they get up to like the master's level and PhDs, they tend to be top of their class because they're doing something that they're passionate about, something that they're interested in. So if you struggle in school, you may not have a lot of other options, right? And so you start out, I don't know, being a barista at Starbucks and you're like, I hate this and I suck at it because it's like Groundhog Day.

10:11It never ends. I do all the stuff I'm supposed to do. And then I come back the next day and I have to do the same thing. We tend to be lifelong learners. And so when things are new and exciting, we're all in. And then the minute it gets a little bit boring, we want to look for the next thing. So that might be number one. Number two is we tend to be the kind of people that really like freedom. We don't like people telling us what to do. We want to challenge the status quo. We don't like things that have always been the way they are. We were just talking about that, right? We like things that are new and that are novel.

10:46And so the beauty of entrepreneurialism is every single day it's something different, right? And if you're running the show, you can be the one that chooses, I'm going to do this and I'm going to have them do that. Yeah. Beyond that, if you think about the qualities of ADHD, we can't sit still. We sometimes struggle to think before acting, which is actually brilliant if you're an entrepreneur, right? Because we don't have that fear that a lot of people have. And there have been studies on this, by the way. And if we struggle to focus, we need to be doing something we can hyper focus on. And that would be our businesses.

11:23So and then we've got hyperactivity, which means tons of energy. And we're problem solvers. We learn really quickly. We make connections. We see patterns where most people don't make any connect. They don't even think about it. Does that make sense? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. One thing that I very much appreciated in our last interview is you broke down the difference between like ADD, ADHD, are they the same? Can you interchange those? Can you break that down? Because I think that might be a really common question. And I think a lot of the ways that we think about ADD or ADHD are not necessarily how they show up specifically with women.

12:02Yeah, exactly. So honestly, I personally think there should just be ADHD. I know that, you know, So when they talk about, okay, so the three types are hyperactive ADHD. They usually combine that with hyperactive. Inattentive is another form. And then the third form is where you have some hyperactivity and some inattention. And that's what most people are, is the combined type of ADHD. Women have inattentive ADHD. They're two times more likely to have inattentive ADHD than men do. And so when you think about a man or a boy and you think about ADHD, you think about that annoying kid, right, who's climbing the walls, who won't sit still, who won't stop talking, who's oppositional, who's sometimes angry and aggressive.

12:53Women don't typically look like that. Some of us do, but most of us don't. Again, we have more of the inattention. And the inattention means or looks like that young girl who's sitting in the back of the classroom and she's daydreaming and she's in her own fantasy world. And then all of a sudden the teacher calls on her and she's like, what, what? You know, I'm in class, has no clue where they are in the book, what they're talking about. But because they're not annoying, you know, they don't get the services. You know, They're fine with their parents. They're kind. They're gentle. They have lots of empathy.

13:28And so they're well-liked. So nobody thinks there's really a problem. It's just like, oh, well, that's just Susan. But it's a real problem. So what I'm trying to say is girls internalize their symptoms more. So they're in their heads versus boys and men tend to externalize their symptoms. So they're being annoying to the outside world. Like you can physically see it. Yes. And the reason this matters is when you are in your head all the time and you're basically picking on yourself, right? You've got this voice that's constantly saying, you know, what's wrong with me? Why can't I do what everybody else is doing?

14:05Why am I always late? Why can't I turn my homework on in time? You're beating yourself up. And over time, that can cause anxiety and depression. So most girls and women, not most, but many get diagnosed with anxiety and depression instead of ADHD, which is fine if they have anxiety and depression and they can have the two comorbid, but often it's the ADHD that's causing the anxiety and the depression. You know, I can think of as you're speaking, I can think of so many instances, even I was laughing because I'm like, if Tracy or I are late to this, this interview, we're both just going to laugh about it because we get it.

14:47And Drew just got home and he was like, can you kiss Quinn real quick? And I was like, I'm doing three minute makeup because I was running late and and you know, and it's like those conversations of like, why can I not get this right? Or like, why is it so easy for other people to go through their mail and send bills in? Or why do I struggle to just fold and put away my clothes. And it's all of these little simple things, but then you could toss me on stage in front of thousands of people and I could show up. You could bring me into a crisis with an ambulance and I would know somehow what to do.

15:22And it's so crazy because one thing that I love about you is I feel like you bring to light the beautiful things about this and also give us the grace and the attention around the areas where you might struggle. So first, let's talk about some of the places that women with ADHD, especially high achieving, smart ass women, where they struggle and what that might look like. Well, it's exactly what you just said. We can do big, important things, but it's the Monday, everyday stuff that happens over and over and doesn't stop, we just suck at. And so where I've seen this really affect, especially women entrepreneurs with ADHD is they are powerhouses in their career and in their businesses.

16:14But then they struggle to do the basic stuff, like get dinner on the table. Like we're responsible for that, right? And that's part of the problem. But society kind of thinks, yeah, you're supposed to do your career and you're supposed to get dinner on the table. You're supposed to be the, basically the CEO of the entire family, including your partner. You're supposed to manage the social calendar. And you see all these women who are able to do both. And you wonder what is wrong with me? Why can't I do this basic stuff? And so you start telling yourself, I'm a bad mother when you are as far from a bad mother as you can possibly be.

16:50I mean, what our kids need is they need our energy, our light, our joy, our positive emotion. And most of us have boatloads of that. That's what makes happy kids. Not, you know, that you have a gourmet meal on the table every night, right? After you've worked an eight hour day. So I think what I would love to make sure that your audience knows is, if you're sitting there and you're thinking, you know, there's something that isn't quite right, and I don't know what it is. And you've heard the definition of ADHD and you're like, ah, maybe. I'd like to talk about the three telltale signs, if it's okay with you, of what it might look like behind the scenes if you have ADHD.

17:36And the first one is unexplained underachievement. Okay. So that could be the kid who, or the adult who is like, when you talk to them, you can tell how bright they are and how passionate they are about certain things. But if you look at their life, you're just like, they should have done more than they've done. Or if you're looking at, let's say a woman or a man who is a powerhouse career wise, but inside they're thinking, again, what we were just saying, why can I do these big giant things that nobody else can do, but it's these little day-to-day things that I struggle so much with. And so you are, the unexplained underachievement may not be outward, but it's inward.

18:26So people may look at you and think, oh, she's got it all together. And you probably do, but wait until you get to perimenopause, right? I mean, because estrogen modulates dopamine and so everything than can go to hell, which is my story. So that's number one. Number two is this consistent inconsistency. And I used to laugh about it with my son. You will get A's and F's. I knew she was a D or a C, but sometimes F's in the same subject, in the same week. Like, what is that all about? And that's what gets teachers and parents and coaches to think, he's just not trying enough, or she's just not trying enough because look, he can do this or she can do that.

19:12But this stuff, you know, it must be a character flaw or a moral failing. And in the truth of the matter, it's not, it's low dopamine, which is ultimately what's going on in our ADHD brains. The third thing is typical productivity hacks or tips and tricks do not work for us. And everything that I'm saying, I want to qualify it by saying you've met a person with ADHD. That means you've met one person with ADHD because all of our symptoms look so different. And that is why it's so hard to diagnose. Most of us, though, when we're told, go eat the frog, like, really? First thing in the morning, you're going to make me do the hardest thing?

19:55I know. Or what's the other one? Oh, time blocking. You may be able to do time blocking. I cannot do. In fact, I think I've heard you talk on a podcast about it. I have tried, cannot do it. Part of it with us is, you know, if you think about time, you can do it though, right? I can. I can do 20 minutes is my limit. 20 minutes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So basically what you're doing. So this is my favorite hack. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Have you ever used this thing? No. Okay. It's a Datix cube. And what is it, Jenna, where I'm exactly like you? Yeah. Can't start. Can't start. Can't start. I sit at my desk and I see this cube and I'm like, you know what, Tracy, all you have to do is 25 minutes.

20:39Yes. If you finish 25 minutes and you want to stop, you may stop. So this is what I do. This is literally a timer and it counts down. But do you notice that I don't have to turn anything on? I don't have to open my phone. I literally, it's on my desk and I kind of like it because it's pretty and it's bamboo. And I do this, right? Love that. And what is it about our brains? Do you know how many times I've done this? Like literally probably six years worth. I still haven't figured out. So I start and 17 hours later, I'm looking up going, oh, I did. I have never quit once. Yeah. And that is what gets me to do hours of work.

21:16That simple little hack. Yeah. Why haven't I figured out that I'm basically faking myself out? Right? Yeah. That yesterday I didn't want to work out. And I was like, okay, you can go walk on the treadmill and watch a Real Housewives episode. as soon as you finish doing this email review. So I'm reviewing emails and all of a sudden I've been walking for an hour. I never turned on real housewives. I got through a ton of work and it was, and it was just like so funny to me. And I think that one of those tips is so huge is like, if you are someone who struggles to simply start things, tell yourself like you can quit after five minutes or 10 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever that threshold is.

21:57Because like Tracy he said, like, I've never quit. Like when I work out, I tell myself that every time, if you don't want to do this in five minutes, you can quit. I end up doing it. And then some, because it's just like that, that first hurdle feels so huge. Yeah. Yeah. Even though we've done it a million times, it's transition. So we struggle to start, but then once we lock in and hyper-focus, we struggle to stop, right? It's the same things. So, so anyway, let me just wrap up on that productivity tips and tricks. You know, if we could just do it, if we had those kinds of brains, we would have already done it.

22:35Right. So I really think the key in all of this is positive emotion. And unfortunately, what happens to us in school, if we struggled in school, and I'll be honest, I never thought I struggled in school. I just had this idea that, oh my God, I was so smart and I did everything I was supposed to do. And I always got A's. But when I really went back and thought about it, that wasn't true at all. I worked so much harder than everyone else. You too? Same. I was, you know, when you were going over some of the signs, like it was expected of me to get straight A's. And I remember my brother never studied.

23:14He never had to study for tests. And I had such anxiety around exams because I didn't trust myself to remember things. Like I would cram, I would remember things in very weird ways. And then the minute the test was over, my brain would release all the information and I would never be able to call it back in, but I would get by like that. It's so crazy. I'm so surprised because I really thought that you would have amazing working memory. No, terrible. Oh, that makes me feel so much better. Because, you know, I was talking, I think I had, it was Denise Duffield Thomas that I had on my podcast. And she said her working memory is just clutch.

23:54and so is my sons. So again, it really depends on the person, but it is. So even if you did well in school, if you think about this, that is so anxiety producing, right? You never know when you can rely on your brain. And so if that's how you go through life, it's no wonder we develop imposter complex and perfectionism and all of that stuff. And with women, the other thing that I wanted to mention that I think is really important. So for boys, they typically develop the symptoms of ADHD around the age of seven. Women, girls, it's puberty. Of course, the DSM-5, which is what clinicians use to diagnose ADHD, it doesn't say anything about that.

24:35So a lot of us noticed during puberty, and I don't know if this was your experience, I could do all the German school plays. I was the lead in German because my mom was German. I could do the English speaking stuff, the lead, no problem. I hit 13. I couldn't even remember one line of my favorite song. And I'm still like that. Was that you or are you better than that? Definitely not better than that, but I would have to like go back and remember what it was. You know, it's so, it's just so interesting because something like an ADHD diagnosis is so life-changing and it almost makes you kind of go back in time and look at things through a new lens.

25:14And I also think, And Tracy, you tell this story in the initial interview, and I remember that. And so people can go back and listen to it about how you were bringing your son in to get diagnosed. And that's when your diagnosis was revealed. But I also do think that mothering young children reminds you so much of different things that you were passionate about, or you lit up about, or you were frustrated by, or you hated and like all of these different things. And so I think sometimes motherhood can be the mirror that so many of us need to remember like us as a child and to kind of go back and get those memories that we might have forgotten.

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