765: Should You Work With Someone You Love? Click Play to Find Out!

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

0:35Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. it's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger offer available for a limited time.

1:15So happy shopping. It can be whatever we want it to be. So we don't need to know what either of us want to do in five or 10 years. Yeah, this container will allow us to do anything we want to do. But what we know is we'll be doing it together, which is incredible. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore.

1:53Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger podcast. Should you work with your spouse? I think this is a great question. Now, for the longest time, I've gone on the record saying I could never work with Drew. We are amazing partners in marriage, in raising babies in life, but I have just known that the two of us are not meant to be co-workers.

2:29So I have always been fascinated by the couples who seem to defy the odds, who blend their personal and professional lives together, and who build successful companies. And that is the couple I'm going to introduce you to today. Matthew Hesse is a New York Times bestselling author, a speaker, and a coach specializing in confidence and relational intelligence. He's basically like a relationship coach. His YouTube channel is number one in the world for love life advice with over a half of a billion views. He's also the host of the podcast love life with Matthew Hussey, and he provides monthly coaching to the members of his private community.

3:06Now, over the past 15 years, Matthew's proven approach has inspired millions through authentic, insightful, and practical advice that not only enables them to find love, but to also feel confident and in control of their own happiness. And now his wife, Audrey has come by his side on this mission. She serves as a creative director for his brand, working alongside of him and leading their team to spearhead all of their marketing initiatives to help create content and propel the brand and the mission forward. I asked them both to come on the show because Matthew is in the process of releasing his new book called love life, which I highly encourage you to go grab a copy of.

3:48And I wanted to hear the behind the scenes of what it is really like to work with your partner. Both Matthew and Audrey admitted that they had never had this type of conversation on air. And I am just so grateful for their honesty, their vulnerability, and their ability to just show up and show the behind the scenes of this reality. So should you or should you not work with someone you love? We dissect that and so much more in today's episode. It's so powerful. I can't wait for you to hear it. So without further ado, let's welcome Matthew and Audrey Hussey to the Gold Digger podcast. Okay, real talk.

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4:56The report covers everything from increasing awareness and engagement to ensuring privacy and boosting efficiency and growth. This report will give you all the info you need to shape your strategy for the year and keep on winning into next year. So friend, do not get caught hopping on an old trend. Visit HubSpot.com slash state of marketing to get your free copy of the report today. That's HubSpot.com slash state of marketing. So I am absolutely elated to be speaking to two of my friends today. And we are going to dive into a topic I get asked about all the time and a topic I cannot speak to because I've never done this.

5:35And so I brought on my favorite humans to talk about this. and we are going to dive off of the deep end. So a lot of people tend to either love mixing business and their love life, or they totally separate it as wide as possible, mixing their business and their marriage. What do people get wrong when they first hear that you two, Matthew and Audrey work together? Tell me what happens. hmm I think the first thing people say is I could never do that that sounds absolutely awful and actually our experience has been really really positive like I think that it's probably down to just a personality kind of compatibility when it comes to work you know I think we have like a very kind of complimentary feminine masculine thing going on not to say there isn't ever conflict because it absolutely is because you know it's yeah it's not perfect but but yeah we've really loved it haven't we yeah i mean it's for us i i suppose people i don't know maybe they have some idea of the tension you're talking about or the amount of sheer amount of time you end up spending together, which is an ungodly amount of time.

6:55And for us, that's been a positive where it would, I think be a struggle is if the two of us weren't good at speaking up about what we needed in terms of our own time. Like one of the things like this week, Audrey, most nights of the week is actually out with her friends. And there's a natural separation that happens because she has great friends and because she goes and hangs out with those friends and she's just doing that independently. So a lot of the time at the end of the day, I'll be like, you know, looking at her as if to say like, all right, shall we go and get some food? And she'll be like, oh, I'm actually seeing my friend tonight.

7:39And I'm like, oh, okay. And then secretly I'm also a little bit excited because I'm like, that's kind of cool. I get a night to myself. So it's like, there's, there's a nice balance between us doing our own thing. Audrey's better at socializing than I am. I'm more of a, like, I just need a night on my own type thing, or I need a day just like reading and being in my own thoughts. And I, what I've had to learn is to get better at stating that I need a bit of time to myself because historically in relationships and in my life, I never did that. I just had resentment and, you know, I boil over and then get overwhelmed and avoid and just want to like, you know, run away.

8:21But it was because I just wasn't good at speaking up about the fact that I needed some time to myself. What we do have to do is kind of create rules around talking shop, just because it's so easy just to talk about it all the time. Like we are, you know, Audrey is now the creative director for our entire company. She is in contact on a daily, hourly, minute by minute basis with the top people in the company, way more than even I am. And she's the co-host of the podcast and she's coaching on our retreats. And so like there's all these elements, she's in so much of everything that she's like more aware of the day to day goings on in the company than I am.

9:09And that means that now it's not just me bothering her about work, it's her constantly bothering me about work. And it's like nine o 'clock at night or we're laying in bed at 1030. And she's like, so, so-and-so needs you to get back to them. And that for me, I'm like, I feel like I've become the, in a weird way, I feel like I've become the unemployed one who is like, don't talk to me about, can we please talk about something else? And she's the one with like an extensive to-do list of things for the company that she needs my input on. So that's the part where we have to get really clear about like, we don't it's not like we make specific rules like after 9 p.m we don't talk about work yes it's just a certain point we have to look at each other and be like babe we're done no it's great pillow talk i don't know what you're talking about you know this makes me laugh so much because drew is very much like audrey like he's social like when the pandemic happened that man was like dying because he could talk to anyone and i I, Matthew, I'm so much like you were like, I crave alone time.

10:18Like we're having two young kids, like the house is never empty. And so like, if the house is empty, that is like, oh my gosh, what a heavenly gift. And so it's so interesting too, because I think that that's such a beautiful balance of like the extrovert and the introvert and honoring that piece of one another. Because oftentimes I feel like it can be really hard to relate to the other side. Like Drew, we have a sauna in our home and he wants to go to the YMCA to sauna so he can talk to Bob, apparently just got chickens, you know, like where I'm like, I don't get it. Like we have all this in our house.

10:53And so I think that's a beautiful thing. Have you guys always like anticipated working together? I know you worked together before you were married. So has that always been kind of a part of the plan of like, we're going to continue this or maybe someday we'll split off. Like, what does that look like in terms of conversation? I knew way before she did. Really? Yeah, you did know, because I would like be kind of saying, I knew how it was so clear to me so quickly that Audrey had unbelievable talent that for me, it was like, and that, by the way, I'm bad at a lot of things but what i'm really good at is spotting like who's a killer and who like who's the next rock star of our company like who's gonna be and i very quickly i was like oh my god like this person's she's gonna be so it was clear to me that she was gonna be so high up there was gonna be one beautiful thing about it which was we're gonna get like we're not gonna have the problems that people have when one person is an entrepreneur and traveling a lot and the other person has a nine to five, that would have been so difficult because then now we're just constantly apart.

12:15I knew that we would be able to be constantly together because we'd be able to work together. But I also knew that she would be so capable that like I actually might end up being the one fighting for her time, not the other way around. And in a lot of ways that kind of happened, but I knew like oh she's she's gonna be this incredible person in this organization and that was long before she'd even had any experience with you know an organization like ours because Audrey was from a completely different background yeah I was a producer in in television so I used to make documentaries and like it's it was completely completely different so I learned everything from scratch i didn't know what a funnel was until about two years ago but now she speaks fluently on all of these things and you know for me it's what's fascinating is like i'm so like i can already see like i can see how wildly capable she is and how talented she is so i'm like throwing her into things and she's like wait i've never done this before i've got to go and do that like oh wait i'm gonna be on stage now in front of all these people i'm like you're fine just go and do it.

13:28Like, it's almost like a, it's like not even a thing that I register that she's not ready for that. I just know she is, but she doesn't know that she is. So she's like still having healthy, reasonable kind of self doubt. And I'm like, no, no, no, you're fine. Can we just please move on to the next thing that I've got lined up for you before she's even really like had a chance to think about this thing that I've thrown her into, but it's become an amazing thing. Were you together when you started working together? What was that story? What was that? No, you weren't. No, I was a producer in London.

14:06You were living in LA and we were long distance. The first half of our relationship for about two years, we were long distance. Okay. And we came, I remember you came home and you were home for like a month and a half and I was working on a production and I was managing a big team. And I think that was the last big production I did before we started working together and I wonder whether that's when you were like we're gonna work together I couldn't wait I couldn't wait for her to finish her next tv job because I was like the moment this is finished like there's so much that you can get involved in and yeah you know you know talking about the future is ours now you know like everything we're doing is ours and we're building it together like we we don't talk about it as my company we talk about it as our company And it's like, that's, you know, that's what's exciting for me for the future is that, you know, I've been doing this for 17 years of my life, but this person came along who honestly, it feels like the most giant lottery win anyone could ever have.

15:05because it's like I won the love life lottery at the same time as winning like the, you know, partner lottery professionally at the same time as having someone who really gets me, who gets it and what we're doing, who also is just our audience absolutely adores. And every time she's on camera, every time she's on a podcast, people don't, you know how easy it would be for everyone to hate her. I mean, I could never, but you know, everyone's just like, Oh my God, please put her on more, which is, you know, it's like, it is like winning three different lotteries all at the same time. And it means for us, for the future, it's a, it just feels really simple.

15:47It feels like we've got, you know, you know, this Jenna in a, in an organization, like the ones that we've grown, there's so much natural variety that it offers because you can take it in any direction you want. If you want to make a podcast, you can make a podcast, YouTube channel, books, programs, you know, travel, whatever you want to do, you can make it that thing. And for us, the kind of flexibility for our future that allows is amazing because we can say it can be whatever we want it to be. So we don't need to know what either of us want to do in five or 10 years. This container will allow us to do anything we want to do.

16:25But what we know is we'll be doing it together, which is incredible. And you know something else, Jenna, a friend of ours, I don't know if you know Mo Gowda, but he's a writer and author. He's amazing. He's so lovely. But he said to us once, I asked him, what is the, in your opinion, what advice would you give someone who's about to get married? I said to him, what do you think is your recipe and your advice for a long lasting marriage? And he said, having a shared mission. Yes. He said, it keeps you on the same track if you have a shared mission so especially I think with this kind of industry where it's so life-consuming I suppose any business if you're a business owner it is like it's your whole life you don't get to check in and out of it you just you you embody it every single day and so I think having the ability to share that with your partner if you can and having that shared mission strengthens a relationship if you can you know handle working together which I think is very much down to like personalities and matches and stuff I think that if you can do that it's really a beautiful thing and it actually kind of enhances everything it really does and I listen I don't want to take a dark turn here but oh god I take it man you take it I think it's really important to say that you know working with family can it can go to either extreme and there are some of the most horrific situations i've ever heard of are with people working with family yeah so i think it's important to add balance to it like every relationship has its own dna yeah and you can talk to you know i have friends who will never ever go into partnership with someone not because they were in partnership with family but because they had partners yeah before yeah and it was traumatizing for them and now they're like i'll never have a partner again and that's no different to someone saying i'll never have a relationship again because i've had a terrible relationship in the past yeah there are some some people swear they can't imagine doing business without the partner that they've partnered with for the last 20 years and who is also one of their best friends and they have their ups and downs, but my God, they can't imagine doing it apart.

18:44So I would never prescribe our situation to somebody else. It works because of the DNA of our relationship and how we get on together and how we resolve issues together and how talented Audrey is and how skilled she is in the role, which means I'm never ever questioning what she's bringing to the table in her role. It's never like I'm going, I'm not sure about this anymore. It's not, she's not bringing value. Like she's extraordinary. So there's a lot of things. There's a lot of boxes to tick that if any of them were not ticked, it could end up being a very, very poisonous situation for both of us.

19:24And so I just want to acknowledge that because I think it's, this is not a prescription. It could be a very, very dangerous thing to work with partners or family. I love this because so Drew and I, people are always so surprised, but over the years, I love what you're talking about, Audrey, about casting vision and just that power, because I feel like often when I get a new idea or like a new project, like I have to paint the picture of like why this is worth it. Right. Because a lot of times your partner, it's like, it's going to shift things for everybody. And there's a part in my book where I was talking about like vision casting.

20:01And I think that there's something so beautiful, even if your spouse isn't a partner in your business or working with you to be a good vision caster, because if you are not bought into the vision and you don't have someone to remind you of how powerful that vision is, there are going to be so many times where you want to give up on it. And so I have always been focused on like, here's the why. And like, remind me of this when I say I want to quit, right? Like remind me of this when like paint the picture for me, make it the most beautiful scene so that I stay committed to this thing. And it's so funny because Drew and I, we do not talk about work at all.

20:39Like he literally doesn't know beyond me telling him that I got to talk to you guys today. He doesn't know what I'm doing. He doesn't know, like it is such a need to know basis because I've learned over the years that one, he doesn't care. But two, like one day I was trying to explain like conversion percentages. And I was like, literally watching the thought bubbles above his head. And I was like, you know, I'm going to save this for like a text to Amy Porterfield. Like she's going to celebrate with me on this one. Like we can talk about other things. And so I love that you talk about the DNA of your relationship too, because I think that the best thing, and this is what you guys are so good at is helping people have their own level of personal awareness around not only what you say you want, but what you bring to the table.

21:25And so let's talk about your book, Matthew Love Life. And I know that your name is on the cover and I know that you are behind this, but I know also Audrey had to buy into this vision. This is a ton of work and it's a beautiful project. Walk me through some of that with you guys and the work that you're doing great now. Yeah, well, it's been, Audrey's been even more than a support as so many of the kind of concepts in the book have been made better by Audrey's input. And there's very specific ideas in there that came from Audrey as well. So it's been, you know, as much as I've been writing this book for in some form, probably for four or five years of my life, you know, two of those years have had Audrey weighing in and breathing life into these ideas.

22:16So it truly has been a one plus one equals three situation on the content of this book. And there's a lot of Audrey in there, but I think that the book's been like, it's been a real challenge. I mean, we, you know, if anyone who has a company knows that when you take on a book, you take on a whole other job that has nothing to do with the running of your organization, not to mention the content you already create and put out there in the world. And you're just expected to kind of essentially moonlight as a writer, which is an extraordinarily arrogant thing for anyone to even kind of do, because writing is hard when it's someone's only job.

23:00And to actually properly sit down and sit in front of a laptop and write, which is what I did for this, you know, I was up at 4am. Most nights he would get most mornings, I should say, to go up at 4am and work between four and eight, because those were your undisturbed hours before the company was kind of alive and running. And he was needed in meetings and videos and, and all sorts of things. So yeah, you had like, you were leading like a double life. And on the weekends, every weekend, it was like multiple hours writing. yeah and so that was a that was rough and I I wouldn't want to do that again you know I just it really I did it this time because I felt like I had a I had an important book in me and I really wanted to get it out and you know we weren't I'm not a place in my career where it was appropriate for me to just take a year off and write but it's not something that I would ever want for anybody really because it has put a strain on our relationship during the writing period where we it suffered and we fought at times and we you know it was like it was a painful process in many ways it was overwhelmed you know made myself ill at times like it just was not I can't I don't want anyone to hear me getting up at 4 a.m as an inspirational thing it's not yeah it's not an inspirational thing it was a it was a sick thing and there's a lot of like conscious sacrifice that happens and a bit of a like we're gonna put a pin in this yeah for the next two months because there is no time for this whether that's quality time whether that's you know weekends and whatever it might be we're just gonna put a pin in it for now we're gonna make peace with the fact that that's just gonna be life for a short period of time and communicate that and be like okay like keep having to talk about it keep having to just like reiterate this is just a phase it's just temporary blah blah blah but there has been a lot there was a lot of that and there actually is a lot of that even right now like we're not even it's not even a thing of the past like we're obviously in the in the middle of a book promotion and it's very much like so much of the time does get consumed by trying to make this book a success and so you end up just compromising on lots of other things temporarily and as long as I think you are both aligned on that and as you say Jenna the vision behind why it's important and staying connected and you know for me like I I've read the book twice and I love it like objectively I think it's a beautiful incredible book that will just help so many people and I have seen how hard Matt's worked on it and I just go oh well that's and I know how much he wants it to be a success.

25:44So if I go, okay, like as his partner who loves him, that is enough for me to stay connected and grit it out for another six weeks. Yes. And, but I do need to return to that continuously. Otherwise I get resentful. And my part of that bargain is that I need to see and acknowledge the toll this has really taken and the consequences. It's not free. Yeah. Like, yeah, it's not free. You know, we, we haven't spent much time, you know, quality time together at all. We are fighting for scraps, let alone time we're trying to find for family and, you know, friendships and health and going to the gym. And like, it's.

26:31There's been none of that. My side of that bargain is like, it has to get better. And I have to take seriously that it gets better. It can't just be a kind of, you know, in narcissistic relationships, they talk about future faking where, you know, narcissists will tell you that one day they're going to want kids or one day they're going to want to be married to you and it's all going to get better. And, and, and of course that day never comes. Well, I think there's a lot of future faking with entrepreneurs. There's a lot of like, yeah, don't worry. It's going to get better. It's going to get better.

27:05We're going to, we're going to move into a calmer season and we're going to just focus on stability for a while and not taking on new projects. And, and that's a kind of future faking because that entrepreneur is addicted to dopamine is on a constant like rush of the next thing. Their nervous system is wired for chaos. People don't talk about this nearly enough and stress, and they don't know how to operate in peacetime. You know, they're a wartime president. So they don't know how to operate. They don't know how to call forward a peacetime leader. And because of that, it's all BS. That time isn't coming.

27:45And I have to take that really seriously that I owe it to her for us to have a more stable time for a while, because otherwise I saw very well that she's being supportive and saying, I understand how important this is to you and that there's a beautiful vision here and it's going to change a lot of lives. But if I'm not understanding her side of that and that now there needs to be a new rhythm after this, then I'm not doing for her what she's been doing for me through this entire process. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales. And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business.

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29:27Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like, if I haven't reached for it in months, it's gotta go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it, so it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

30:01Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger.

30:39Offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. You know what has been so huge and I am not giving out relationship advice here. Let me tell you, I'm not the expert, but in situations like this, because I just, I don't subscribe to the idea of balance. I don't, even when you study like the word balance, it's meant to be a moment in time, not a state that is maintained. And so I just don't think that balance exists. But one thing that has been so huge for me, and I think so many other people miss this piece is setting a deadline of like, I will go and then this is when it ends. and like even for my book when my book came out I said I will give it 30 days after the book comes out that I will say yes and after that it's a no and what was beautiful about that too is I think it's like a marathon right like you know how many miles you're about to run and so like somehow you can stay committed to that but when that marathon becomes this never-ending thing it's like you never know how to even step off of it.

31:44And so for anyone that's listening, in my opinion, especially if you're selling a vision to someone else, because I agree with you guys, I think that one of the biggest things that entrepreneurs do wrong is that they sell this idea of freedom to their partner, to their family, to their friends. Like I'm starting this business to take control of my life and my time and my money. And so often we build these things that literally give us the opposite of freedom, right? Audrey, you said like 10pm thoughts, like that's the toll of an entrepreneur. And so I love even I just came out of a launch and I told Drew, okay, for one week, my brain is going to be thinking about business, you will be talking to me and I will not be processing.

32:29And for that week, I just need your understanding. But I was literally getting off of a webinar and going to swimming lessons with my kids. And like my kids forced me to step off of that because it's like I'm ending a webinar and quickly getting on a swimsuit and going to the YMCA. And so I just think in this situation like this, giving that deadline of like, I will push this book until this date. And then I'm going to just save all requests and things. And they'll be there when I get back. And if they're meant for me, they'll wait. I think that's really powerful. And I just appreciate your honesty because I think, you know, you guys just got married and like this whole first year of marriage has really been centered around this massive undertaking that you both have taken on with such grace.