767: AI Can't Do THIS For Your Copywriting Strategy

0:01Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like if I haven't reached for it in months, it's got to go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

0:35Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. And it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. it's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop by favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger offer available for a limited time.

1:15So happy shopping. Tell them what's going to happen five minutes from now and then five miles down the road from this and like, like tension makes everything interesting, right? It makes music interesting, makes art interesting. So that's gonna make your storytelling interesting too. If you can do that, have that tug and that back and for. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things, business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business.

1:50I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger Podcast. Between writing speeches, analyzing data, crafting social media copy and getting you research, what can't AI do? Well, it can't build relationships with your unique personality. That's what.

2:25Ashlyn Carter is the premier expert for copywriting for creative entrepreneurs, and she is about to give us the 411 on both the capabilities and the limitations of AI in crafting compelling and impactful messaging for your business. As a founder and CEO at Ashlyn Rights, she's dedicated to providing services and curriculum to support creative small businesses so that they can get paid for their artistic endeavors and work from a place of rest doing what they love. Ashlyn's focused on helping you leave a legacy with your story, leaning into your calling and building a sustainable creative business.

3:01And she's going to help you stand out in a saturated market using your words. Now I have personally worked with Ashlyn as my copywriter for years upon years. In fact, she was on the gold digger podcast way back in 2018 on episode number six, where we talked about how to pack a punch with words. Now, before we dive into our conversation around how AI is changing the copywriting industry, I have to share with you a free class that Ashlyn has coming up. It is called the Copy Kit Clinic. And she's going to walk us through how to build our own crush and convert packs of personality packed sales copy snippets.

3:38If you are someone who is afraid to sell using your words, or you do not know how to write sales copy, this is for us. In this free workshop, you'll join a live co-working session where you'll write conversion ready copy, aka copy that sells without sounding fake, annoying, or like a chat GPT word salad. You can save your seat for this opportunity at jennacutcher.com slash copywriting. That's jennacutcher.com forward slash copywriting. Join Ashlyn's free workshop. I am so excited to be there as well. And now without further ado, Ashlyn, welcome back to the Gold Digger podcast. okay real talk are skinny jeans out or are they in my friends and i continue to have this debate and it just goes to show that trends come and go and come back again and the same goes for marketing strategies like who can even keep up luckily hubspot makes it their job to keep marketers on trend and on track to hit their goals their 2024 state of marketing report is an all-in-one guide for everything happening this year and how marketers can best approach it all hubspot surveyed more than 1400 marketing pros across the world and curated the top trends are thinking about.

4:50Sure, there's AI, but there's honestly so much more. The report covers everything from increasing awareness and engagement to ensuring privacy and boosting efficiency and growth. This report will give you all the info you need to shape your strategy for the year and keep on winning into next year. So friend, do not get caught hopping on an old trend. Visit hubspot.com slash state of Marketing to get your free copy of the report today. That's hubspot.com slash state of marketing. I have the perfect person on the show to ask a question I've been dying to know. Aisling Carter, is AI ruining the copywriting industry?

5:28Yes or no? So many feels on this. I think AI is going to eat mediocre copywriters for breakfast. What? Let's go. Okay. Diving in. Let's talk about this. There is so much chatter out there about ChatGPT and all of these things and all of the industries it's crushing the most. But I feel like there is so much fear around this copywriting piece. What's happening in this world? Okay. Well, first I want to like validate concerns that people have. I remember when chat GPT first came out, it was what 2022 now. I mean, put my head under the sand, 2am staring at the ceiling, like my business is over. I have ridden the wave.

6:14But I think what I realized is you can either surf with the wave or like let the wave completely crash on you. So I started playing with the tools more and more and more and just getting acclimated with them. And I use AI all the time. I use it every day. I think a good copywriter can beat the bots, can beat AI-generated copy. I think somebody that's educated enough on copywriting or somebody that just knows a brand's voice can smell a chat GPT word salad from 10 feet away, but it serves a place. I think it's a lot like coffee. Some people need a shot of espresso and they're good. Some people want to be hooked up to the IV of coffee and use AI all day.

6:55that's good too. Like we all have our ways of interacting with it. Yeah. I love that. And I think sometimes it's like the devil, you know, is better than the devil you don't know. And I think that for so many people, when there is so much fear around something like AI, I think it's brilliant how you leaned in and you're like, let me just see what this is about. Let me see what it can do because that can remove fear in and of itself of like, well, this is okay, but it's a starting point. This isn't what I would put up on my website. Right? Yeah. It's like a good junior bot in your business. Think about it like a little assistant.

7:33I'm like somewhat of a Taylor Swift historian. And there's that line. She has like plays stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you put dumb prompts in, it's going to spit out trash. But the more that you, it's a Lamborghini, these language learning models are Lamborghinis. if you can drive it that way. So if you can give it and feed it the right prompts and help it finesse your copy or use it as like a sandboxing tool, that's my favorite thing to do. Like ideate and just come up with stuff and think about, you know, 90s references that I've never used because I've completely forgot about it and Google failed me.

8:04And that's where it can just be dynamite for your business. Yes. Okay. So for those who are newer to you, Ashlyn's no stranger to the podcast. In In fact, I was just laughing to myself because Ashlyn was on in the first round of interviews I ever conducted. She was the OG guest. And I told her, I think I've gotten a little bit better over the years in terms of interviewing. But you and I have walked through so much life over the years. Ashlyn has been our conversion copywriter for our team. We've grown babies alongside of each other, been lifelines in very pivotal times in one another's lives.

8:42And one of the things that has been so cool is that we kind of went back to our roots in a lot of ways from our team standpoint, getting back in to the conversion copywriting category and utilizing Ashlyn. So she's like our guru when it comes to copy. But one of the things that I was thinking about when I was thinking about this episode is that so many people become entrepreneurs because they love what they do and they want to sell it. And like the idea of selling something they love. It's just like so novel. And yet all of a sudden they find that they have to be a social media expert. They have to be customer service and they have to become a copywriter.

9:19And I would say that if I asked my listeners to raise their hand, there would be a great showing of hands of people who do not resonate with this idea of writing copy. And so let's start at the very beginning of if somebody is listening to this and they're like, like, what is copy? and like, am I a copywriter or how do I even connect with that term? Where do we start? Okay. So the way I define copywriting is it's the art and the science of words that code to conversion. This is splitting hairs a little bit, but track with me, listener. I think that content writing is different from copywriting.

9:54When I think copywriting, I'm like, let's go, baby. Let's sell. Let's get the click. I want it. I'm talking math. I need to be able to measure it. So that's what copywriting is. And good copywriting, as it should be, is kind of expensive. So you have to, you're basically running a little mini media business as an entrepreneur these days, right? Like we're having to show out content and words at light speed. You're your own media house. You need to know enough to be dangerous about selling. I've connected it to Shark Tank before. Like any episode you watch, they get in there, they can say their pitch, and they can tell you their numbers.

10:30And I, for so many years in my business, I was like numbers, I can't, I'm just, I don't want to do it. I'm not a math girl. I went to math coach class since fourth grade. Like I know it doesn't matter. I'm the entrepreneur. I have to be able to tell you that in the same way you have to be able to sell me on why you do the way you do it differently or better than somebody else, especially if they do the same thing. And especially, especially if they charge less, you have to be able to tell me that as the owner and that is copywriting. And so I firmly believe it's one of those things you just have to know enough to be dangerous about, even if you don't consider yourself a writing person, because it is a paramount business skill.

11:09Yeah. And I got to shout you out because I love writing. Like I really enjoy content creation and content writing, but there is a true science and art to selling with words. And I think that that is where we are getting so confused as entrepreneurs, because we're like, yeah, I can create content and I can tell stories. But the minute I go to sell something, I get clammy. I don't know what to say. I focus on the wrong things. I talk about the features. I forget the stories. Everything gets so murky. And I think that that is why so many of us are so afraid to sell. And so let's start talking a little bit about how we can use words more strategically to sell and to kind of eliminate the fears around talking about what it is that we're selling?

12:01I love it. Okay. One thing you can always keep in mind and remember is that you usually sell like you like to be sold to. So I'm in extremely like, you know this about me. I'm just like, I want, I don't like the fluff. I want the rational, like I'm probably a slow, not very risk taking decision maker. And so that's how I like to be sold to tell me my ROI, show me exactly what's in it. And so I sell like that on my team, head of our agency is Sarah. Sarah wants the feels and the story and like that revs her up so much. So if you can just remember, if people ask me all the time, does long copy still, do people still read online?

12:43Yes. People read long copy. They don't read boring copy and they don't read copy that they can't work through. and find the little dog whistle in there that speaks to their buying style. Predominantly, there's about four buying styles and people are looking for different things. So when you've got that long form sales page, you've got the FAQ, you've got the story, you've got like all these different elements on it. Your mom is maybe reading every single word, but other people aren't. And so if they're able to sift through the message or through the whole launch campaign and find those elements that pull their heartstrings, they're going to connect with it.

13:14So that's like one thing I just want everybody to keep in mind when they're writing. I think that helps you not be so hard on yourself. Just remembering like, yeah, you've got some blind spots. You probably need to use some sort of a messaging framework or copywriting framework that can help you remember to fill in all the little different paint my number pieces. Yes. Oh my gosh. This was such a huge eye opening thing for me. I remember years ago having a conversation with my friend Dean and he was saying, cause I was like, Oh, I love to paint the possibility. Like I am a possibility painter, like the way that I work in the way that I sell, like that is what I do.

13:54And he was like, I run away from my past. Like I want to run to like a totally different future, but more than the future and the possibility I am running away from things. And I was like, wait, what? And I like realized that like all of my marketing was just painting possibility. And like all of his, yes, all of his marketing was like running away from the pain. Right. And it was such an eyeopening realization of just like you were saying that like so many of us are likely selling the way we like to be sold to, but we're missing the other types of buyers. You said there was like four different types.

14:31Can you kind of just walk us through what we should be thinking about when we're talking about copy that sells. Yes. Okay. I have kind of silly names for them, but they correlate. I have a quiz for it. If you, so if you can't figure yours out, there's a quiz for it, but there's one type that I call her sassy and strategic. She wants the four one one. She wants the information. She wants the tables, the outline, everything. Then you've got the poised and the polished, and they want a little bit more of the forecasting. They want to know, okay, when I click that, this is your like risk averse. When I click that button, what exactly is going to happen?

15:04Can you walk me through all the next steps. Like I'm terrified to do this. I need to know everything that's going to happen in what sequential order. You've got the you. It's funny. You, Natalie Frank reminds me of this too. The kind of person who's like the paint the big picture. This is like a classic visionary. Honestly, when you're talking, I think it works well for you. I've talked with a contractor, a mutual contractor before about how you're just such a natural marketer and storyteller. And this is, this is it. And I think a lot of your audience connects with it because look, you market to other visionaries who want that, like they have this mark they want to make on the world and you help them see that and forecast it.

15:46So that's another type of buyer you have is the one that has this big, hairy, audacious goal that they want to do. And they want you to help them forecast how to get there. And then you've got the people, people, people, people person, the person that's like, how does this help me love others? How does this help me serve my people? Like they are so hyper focused and aware of that. So those are kind of, and it's based off of like the different types of like thinking styles. If you've done any research on that. And I studied that when I was in corporate marketing and then when I started copywriting all the time in my own business, I was like, wait a minute, this is actually really similar to pulling those different levers.

16:23And it makes sense because all copywriting really is, is applied psychology. Ooh, yes. Okay. It's time for Cyber Monday, Dell Technologies' biggest sale of the year. You'll find the lowest prices of the year on select Dell PCs like the Dell 16 Plus with Intel Core Ultra processors. And with built-in advanced AI features, it's the PC that helps you do more faster. From smarter multitasking to extended battery life, these PCs handle the busy work so you can focus on what actually matters to you. Plus, earn Dell rewards and enjoy perks like free shipping, expert support, price match guarantee, and flexible financing options.

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17:34Okay, I have been on this ruthless pursuit to purge any clothes that I'm not actually wearing. Like, if I haven't reached for it in months, it's gotta go. I am trying to be really intentional about what I bring into my closet right now, which means I am only buying pieces that I know I will actually wear and use. Revolve just gets it though. I'm literally wearing my brown Autry sneakers from there right now and my new suede purse. It fits my laptop in it. So it's basically a fancy shoulder bag that works for everything. I love finding pieces like that. Things that look good, but also work hard for my actual life.

18:08Their holiday shop is live right now with all the good stuff. Sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for whatever is on your calendar. and it's all in one place, which makes shopping feel way less overwhelming. Whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com forward slash gold digger, shop my edit and take 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger. Fast two-day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com forward slash gold digger to shop my favorites and get 15 % off your first order with the code gold digger.

18:46offer available for a limited time. So happy shopping. So now that we're kind of thinking about this and people are probably like, Oh my gosh, I might be like a little lost, or I don't even know how to reach all those different people. Let's bring AI back into the picture. How are you integrating AI into your copywriting process? Like, what does that even look like? Cause I know you've said like, I have chat GPT open as a tab all the time. So how are you kind of leveraging this tool with what you already innately know and do? Okay. I tell our students this and I do it innately. So I think the first step is I have my, I'm going to call it my mise en place.

19:27I hope I'm saying that right for our chef-y types, but like I have my set ready to go. I always know my goal when writing anything. What is my goal? What is my message? What is my positioning statement? What is the definition for this offer? Like, I know what I want to say. The next piece of the puzzle is having your ear to the ground and understanding what your audience needs to hear back. So what exact words, how are they describing this problem? What do they think about this problem? What do they know about this problem? What are they doing about this problem? Like that, that awareness of your audience.

19:59And then the last piece is some sort of framework or order to put the different messages in. So I have those three things ready when I'm writing something. Then I usually go over to ChatGPT and I'm like, tell me, okay, so let's start with voice, for instance. How I'll throw some copy in there, maybe that I like, or rewrite this in the brand voice of Betches or Gary Vee or Goop or some kind of brand to pull out tonalities. That's like one thing I always like to play with is say this in the voice of somebody else. One of my favorite copywriting exercises, just get me out of my dang way. Get me out of my head.

20:41Say it another way. So I use it for that a lot. I'll use it kind of like a hyper thesaurus. Write this with more power. Write this with more wit. Write this with more persuasion. So I would say I would use it in the sandboxing, like early ideation period. And then I go back and draft with my little, my three pieces. And then I'll use it in the polishing and the editing phase to kind of give me more ideas. So it probably bookends, now that I'm saying this, it kind of bookends my copy creation process. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. I love this. I was telling my team the other day, I was listening to the book, Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell.

21:23And he was talking about how like he creates a vision, the first 10%, his team does the next 80%. And then he reviews the last 10%. And it kind of reminds me of that in that it's like, help me get the vision. Now I'm going to do the work and then help me review and make sure that like the end goal is met. I mean, it's similar. And I think we could draw that similarity there. But I love so much that, again, there's like the human aspect of it. It's a helper. it's an assistant. It's not meant to do the work. And one of the things that I kept thinking of is when, when you were sharing that is that so many people go into chat GPT, they'll type in a prompt and they will just take that initial output and not prompt it any further.

22:07And like, yes, the first output is terrible usually. And that's the stuff that people can sense and see. And they're like, oh, chat GPT gross. And so even just continually judging the prompts totally transforms the output. And it creates an output that no one else could really replicate unless they followed the exact same prompts. And I feel like that's where we're seeing like, oh, duh, that's AI, because people are just typing in one input and getting one output. And that's it. Oh, my gosh, mic drop. That's exactly what's going on. You have to work with it. You have to treat it like an intern in your office who you would say like okay now now do this now do this like give it those specific instructions um like i use it the past week i've used it for youtube outlining i use it for that all the time i'll throw it some ideas and then like it reworks it i use it for meta description writing all the time but yeah all of these that you've talked about i start out like i got i give it the 10 i let it fly and then i like clean it to give it my taste.

23:16Yeah. One of the things that I think is so powerful, and I think you've taught me so much about this over the years is just like the unis factor, the oneness factor that is in everyone. And when we are talking about something like AI, it is really easy to invite in that fear of like, everyone's just going to sound the same. And so let's talk about different strategies that you use to make sure that that oneness factor exists and that like it is being told in a way that only you can tell it because I think people just have stopped writing because they're like, everyone can say the same thing. But we've forgotten that thing that we've talked about for the last decade and for our entire lives is that there is only one you.

23:58Yes. And you have a monopoly on your story. Like Lord in heaven knows you have been copied and mimic 15 ways from Sunday. Like you have like anybody listening to this, like you think it won't be you until it is like, you will be copied. You will be mimicked. If you have a good idea, expect it to be out there on the internet in some other form. So you have to hold on to the only true monopoly you have. And that's your story and your ability to art it like, but you only get that monopoly if you can articulate your story. And so learning how to be able all, all the like sexy things out there, social media, marketing, PR, all that does is hold a mic up to the message that's already there.

24:39And you have to have that clean, clear, repeatable, you know, it works when your audience can say it back to you. And until they can say it back to you, I would argue it's not clear enough. So that's the kind of stuff that like, that's the magic that people who, you know, AI are not people that are winning the attention these days. It's a win the attention, win the dollar world. People that are winning the attention have that clarity dialed in and that message clear. How would somebody that's listening start to kind of become a better storyteller or even know like what stories to tell when? Because, you know, I can often laugh that like everyone knows like the$300 camera on Craigslist story.

25:21It's been told a bajillion times, but like that's not the story I'm necessarily telling when I'm teaching Pinterest or different things. And so how can people start to like understand like, hey, you could use AI, but like you also need to inject you and the best way to inject you is with stories. How can people start to understand like where to put stories and what stories to tell? Okay, that's a great question. I have two points on that one. Good storytellers are just good noticers of life. So if you can just remember that like, I think story sounds like it can sound so intimidating, because I think people assume but some big narrative, a story can just be an anecdote and aside, like a sentence.

26:02It doesn't have to be big. It can be, and we want the reality show moments of your life anyway. Like that's the world these days. And so, you know, I have students say all the time, I'm so boring. And one said the other day in our membership, like I just go to my kids hockey practice and work. I have nothing to talk about, but you do. We just have to get you in the mindset. So that's like my little stance on story. Just one tip there. If you can write down one thing every day as like one thing that happened to you, that's, you can start training your brain to be a noether of life. But then as far as your point about where to use it, there's so many different types of stories you want to have, like the throw rocks with the common enemies story you want to have, you know, like there's all those, but I think let's boil it down.