785: Transitioning Your Biz, Showing Up Scared, and Growing Your Audience

0:00You have to figure out those facets of you and your method or your ideology or your vision that set you apart that will tie people deeper than what it is that you do. Hey, my name is Jenna Kutcher and I am obsessed with all things business, marketing numbers, and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town mama who took a$300 camera, grew a successful photo biz, and now I work from home and run a seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career you adore. Shy away from the real talk? No way.

0:38Money, hardship, growth, loss, and marketing are all topics we discuss here. Think of this as your one-stop shop for happy hour with a gal pal mixed with business school. Pull up a seat, make sure you're cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn. This is the Gold Digger podcast. Are you someone who's struggling to grow your social media accounts? Or maybe the thought of showing up on social media makes you break out in hives? Well, we all wish we had a bigger audience to promote our businesses to. And although I don't believe in quick fixes, there are some things you could start doing today to grow your following and as a result, grow your business too.

1:14This episode is a recording from a coaching session I had with a Gold Digger podcast listener, Savannah Timofay. Savannah is a wedding cake designer who also coaches other cake makers in her industry and she's struggling with sharing on social media in order to reach her goals. I am honestly so excited for you to learn from my conversation with Savannah. we're talking about mindset tips, conversion strategies, actionable strategies on how to grow her business and her social media following. This one is so powerful, no matter what stage of business you're in or what industry you're in. I know you're going to be able to take away insights and ideas that I share with her today and implement them into your own business.

1:54Now, real quick, before we dive in, if you would like to be featured in a future coaching episode of the Gold Digger podcast, make sure you are inside of our Facebook community. It is the Gold Digger Insiders Facebook group. We've linked it in the episode description and the show notes for you. I am asking for monthly volunteers to ask me questions, get mentored, help other listeners, and of course, be on your favorite podcast all at the same time. Join the Gold Digger Insiders Facebook group and maybe you and I can hit record together soon. Now, without further ado, let's dive on into my coaching session with Savannah.

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3:12So dump the disconnected tools and the chaos that comes with them. Discover what HubSpot's all on one platform can do to streamline your business. Visit HubSpot.com to grow better today. HubSpot.com. I love doing these coaching sessions. They just feel so special to me. And today's guest, I'm just so honored to have her with me. So Savannah, welcome to the Gold Digger podcast. Thank you. Good to be here. Yes. Okay. So before we dive on in, you've prepared some awesome questions. I think they're going to help so many of our listeners. I'm very excited about our conversation today, but kind of paint the landscape of where you're at in business, what you're working on, what you're working through, and then we'll dive into the nitty gritty.

3:57Sure, no problem. So hi, I'm Savannah. And I predominantly run a wedding cake business. And I've been doing that for about 13 or so years. I mean, not totally weddings. I was doing birthday cakes and celebration cakes for many years before just going fully into the weddings, probably just before 2020. 20. And then I've also sort of gone sideways as well. And now I'm teaching other cake makers to have successful business because my cake business is successful. And I'm so proud of everything that I've achieved. And I really want to see other people achieve that success as well. So I've sort of sidestepped and gone a little side business that I'm trying to progress.

4:46And And eventually, hopefully that will become my main business and teaching other cake makers everything that I can, everything that I've learned over the last 14 years. And so, so yeah, so that's really where I'm heading now into courses and memberships or cake makers. So busy times at the minute. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. First off, I chose you because I can so relate to where you're at. You know, as a wedding photographer, I never taught people how to actually take the pictures, but the business side of things. I've met so many people who are amazing at their craft and they are horrific when it comes to business.

5:29And I want to protect their craft and their art and their passion. And the only way I know how to do that is through systems and strategies and sound business principles that allow them to get paid to do what they love. And so I love that you are helping other people in your industry. And I love the wedding industry as a whole other beast for anyone listening who is not in the wedding industry. It's an intense profession with high stakes. And so I just appreciate that. When did you start teaching courses? And when did you start kind of flexing that muscle? okay so well when 2020 everybody knows the pandemic came and all weddings just stopped so although at the time I did actually have a day job I had a full-time day job doing on the side which you know took up most of my time so I was lucky in the sense I still had an income but I needed something to replace the weddings and that's where I sort of diverted and I actually started to learn something that I was hoping to use for myself which is digitally sketching wedding cakes okay so this was like just something that I needed to learn because my customers were asking for it so I learned how to do that and then realized that actually this would benefit a lot of other cake makers um and so in 2021 I decided that after sort of showing my sketches online and people were really interested in them other cake makers I thought well this is the right time to then start teaching.

7:00So that's where I started, started teaching the sketching, digitally sketching their cakes. And that's sort of the first course I did for the cake makers. And then I moved into marketing for other cake makers actually just this year. So. I love that. I love that. Okay. The stage is set. Now let's dive on into the questions. And I might have clarifying questions because I am just dipping my toes into the baking water. So I might get things wrong on that front. But I've got you on the strategy side. So let's start. What do you need the most help with? Where do you want to begin? Okay. So as you know, I'm running basically two businesses, the wedding cakes and the courses.

7:42And I have realized how much I absolutely love teaching other cake makers. And I want to stop, eventually stop making the cakes because making the cakes is time consuming. I'm losing all of my hours and sometimes working in the evenings. And I do have a family and I'm working obviously weekends, most weddings are weekends. So you know what it's like you go and deliver the cake and it's usually on a weekend. So I really want to stop making the cakes eventually and just focus on helping other cake makers with their success. My question is, if I stop making the wedding cakes and just start teaching, how is that going to come across to the cake makers when they're like well she doesn't make cakes anymore so how can she teach me so yeah that's really my first question what's your thoughts around that oh my gosh I have so many thoughts around it so what's so interesting is I had a very similar path to you so started as a wedding photographer scaled my business up to six figures realized that I was doing a lot of marketing that other photographers weren't doing and started teaching the business side.

8:55And I just started one-on-one mentoring local photographers. And then I ended up turning it into a course. And I totally had that same, it's almost an identity crisis, right? In a way of like, okay, this is what I'm known for. This is how I've grown. Who am I without that piece of it? And also, yeah, what is the implication of that? And what does it mean for people to be watching this? And it's so interesting because I think a lot of people forget, I was still shooting weddings 6 years ago. It's not that long ago that I was still shooting weddings. And so one of the things that I did so many times in my career is at the heyday of my wedding photography business, I was shooting 30 weddings a year.

9:39Then I went down to 15. Then I went down to 8. Then I went down to 4. And that's how I phased out over the years. And so one of my first thoughts for you was, what if you only took like three cakes a year that you loved the clients, you connected with them, you were excited about it. It kind of kept you in the zone, but you could set your prices to like astronomically high prices and only work with a few select clients that you really enjoyed. And honestly, towards the end of my career, that was really what I was doing. I shot my last wedding when I was 20 weeks pregnant with Coco. and that was the end.

10:17But that final year, it was like, my rates are really high. I know they're really high. I'm only working with X amount of couples. It was such a small number that it was very easy to fill. And I just kind of drew the line in the sand of like, I'm not booking any beyond that. And so that would be my first recommendation would be to do kind of a phase out because I think it could be confusing for you to be like, I'm doing both. I'm doing both. I'm doing both. I'm going all in. But that doesn't mean you can't do that. And I think that something that we often can forget is like, just because I'm not actively getting paid to shoot photos doesn't mean I'm not a photographer anymore.

10:53Like I have my camera. I am shooting photos of my kids every weekend. I do photo shoots for my friends and my family. Like if I have my camera, I'm a photographer, right? You don't lose this skill just because you're not doing it for a business. And something tells me that you would still be baking with your children and your family, right? Like your, your family's not what you get off the hook that easy and not bringing the cakes to the birthday parties and things like that. Right. And so even if you're not doing it as a business, you're not losing that skill and that gift, right? You still have that understanding.

11:28If you go the route of like, just really killing that side of the business and going all in on the education, I would say that I would challenge you to still stay really active in the communities where people who are active in the industry are in so that you keep a pulse on things. So even when I finished being a wedding photographer, I was still going to photography workshops. I was still in Facebook communities. I still kept a pulse on things like that when I was teaching that course, which I no longer teach any longer. And so I wanted to make sure like I still understand the industry. I still understand the ins and outs.

12:03But here's the thing. so much education is not necessarily industry specific, right? Doing these drawings of your cakes, it's not super dependent on what is necessarily happening in the industry. It is a skill that is a valuable skill, regardless of the economy, regardless of whatever. And so it's not necessarily that you have to like be in the industry to know what people need. And so I would just say to challenge yourself to really keep a pulse on your community. And if you're serving your community, they're going to tell you what is going on, what they need. Their questions are going to be signals to you so that you have that understanding.

12:43And so which one aligns more to you just like off the bat, like doing a phase out or just doing a select amount? Or does it feel like now is the time I need to do a clean break? Straight away, I would say the phase out and it wasn't something I had considered. So I absolutely love that idea. That is absolutely gold. I love that idea. And it never crossed my mind to do that. It was always a case of, right, when should I stop doing that one and then really go on that one? But no, that one definitely speaks to me. It's a little less scary as well. Oh my gosh. Yes. And it's amazing too, because what's so interesting, and I've talked about this before on the show, but I so believe this is that a lot of times when we're building our businesses, we're after money at first, right?

13:27And to get a business started, you often have to trade time in order to earn money. That's kind of what a business is when we're building it. Okay. It is officially that time of year. And if you run a business, you know, the holiday rush is no joke. I've done more Black Fridays than I can count at this point. And let me tell you, orders at 2 a.m., inventory updates, refreshing my site, hoping it can keep up. it never stops being intense. That is exactly why I use Shopify. It keeps everything running smoothly when things get their craziest. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all e-commerce in the US, from household names to entrepreneurs who will be participating in their first Black Friday Cyber Monday this year.

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15:56And I think you've hit that where now you're like, I want to buy my time back, right? Like it is not worth being busy on the weekends and away from my family, or I'm spending so much time. And so what it sounds like to me is that you've hit that threshold where now you're like, okay, now time is my currency. So how do I be a good steward of my time? How do I make sure that where my time is going is valuable? And you start to see too that with baking cakes, your ability to earn is capped at how much you're willing to work, right? So it's like in order to earn more baking cakes, the main way is through baking more cakes.

16:32And so you've started to kind of crack open this side of like, wow, I can build something once and scale it and make a greater impact and a greater income. And so that side becomes more tempting. And so what I would say is, is if you almost created a phase out plan, how many cakes are you baking like in a year, give or take? About 40. 40? Oh my gosh, that's a lot. Okay. So let's say that next year you committed to baking 20 or 25 even. The year after that, i.e. went down to 10 or 12 the year after that. And you could even just see this five-year plan of like, I'm still doing this thing I love.

17:11It still brings me joy. But in the time I am saving from all of the cakes I am not baking, this is what I will build with that time or how I will enjoy my life with that time. And it's so interesting because a lot of times when I look at the places in my career where I made the greatest leaps of either changes in income or impact. It was the times where I really truly did treat time as my currency. And I said, I'm willing to earn less in order to live more or have more time. And when I got more time, I learned different strategies. I learned different things. I put my time into different projects that ended up yielding way greater results.

17:51And so I just think that phase out might be really powerful for you. And it gives you time to still stay in the industry, still do what you love. Because I think there's still a part of you that genuinely loves that. Absolutely. Clients. And again, too, I would just say like raise your rates as well because, you know, supply and demand. You will say, I'm bringing my supply down. The demand is going to go up and you'll start kind of elevating that side of it as well. Brilliant. That's really, really helpful. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Next question. Let's go. Okay. So to build my cake business, I didn't really need a large audience on social media.

18:28So obviously there is only a certain amount of cakes I can make. and there's only so many people that are going to want to buy them. So the audience didn't need to be big to be successful. But now I'm trying to grow the core side of things. I know I'm going to need a larger audience and I struggle with putting myself out there. So I do the workshops and like the boot camps and things like that before a launch of a course. And I love doing that and I do them live and I do them on camera and I absolutely love it. But I really struggle to put my face in front of a photo or a reel on Instagram. I just, it sends me into a panic.

19:05So how can I work on this fear of putting myself on social media and getting myself out there and then obviously getting more eyes on me? Yeah. What do you think is the difference of like, what is the mindset block for you of, you know, being live on camera, doing these live workshops versus social media? Is it the fact that like, you get results that you can see like the likes and comments? Like, what is the mindset block there? I think that is part of it. I think when I'm doing the lives, I know that I'm actually speaking to people, there are people that are listening to me. So that's something and then obviously, with social media, it's just you're kind of just talking to a camera and sending out into the world and you don't know if anyone's actually listening.

19:50And it is there for a very long time. And I think that's what scares me. It's just, I don't know who's listening. I don't know who's looking at these photos. And I just, yeah, there's that whole sort of who is out there. Is anybody actually there? Am I just like stupid? Okay. So I'm going to challenge a few beliefs. And I'm also going to say you are not alone. Like you are not alone in that. I feel like social media, especially these days, it just feels like a screaming match. And I'm in a very interesting place with my relationship with social media right now because I want to quit. Like I just, I just don't, I don't enjoy it right now.

20:26So I just want to preface this with like, you're not alone in that. And I think one of the key points that you said was like, you know, when you're doing these live bootcamps, you're talking to people who want this, right? Like you already know they want this. They're there, they signed up, they showed up. These are your people. And so I want to challenge your belief of like, that you need to have this huge volume of people because I don't necessarily think that's true. And I was thinking about this before our conversation of like how much you charge for one wedding cake and then how many students you would need to make that same amount.

21:00It's not this huge volumes game, right? Like if we're looking at it, you know, it doesn't have to be thousands and thousands and thousands of people in order to hit the goals that you likely have. One thing that I think is so powerful. And it sounds like you're already doing this through the ways that you're doing it is like growing your email list. And I know I talk about it all of the time, but it's like your email list are people that have literally raised their hand and opted in saying, I want more information. And so when you speak to them, you can speak a lot different than screaming into the void of social media and trying to catch people's attention who may or may not even care or want what you have.

21:37Right. Like that's a very different audience. It's a different exchange. It's a different like energetic frequency that we're talking on. And so if I were you, I would continue to grow your email list through doing things like the free challenges, having freebies, things like that, because it allows you to speak so much more intimately and clearly to the people who are raising their hand for it. They're way more qualified than passive social media followers. The other thing too, and I obviously talk about this a lot is Pinterest. And I think Pinterest would be a really powerful platform for you that wouldn't necessarily feel like you're standing on a stage naked in front of people.

22:15But that again, would be targeting the people that are already searching for the things that you're doing. One of my friends, Bonnie Christine, she does like textile design. It's like a very niche thing. And she is so amazing. And I'm like, I still don't really understand what you do, but I'm so fascinated by it. But she's been able to grow her audience massively. And it's so interesting because it's like, I think a lot of times when we do these niche things, we kind of fool ourselves into believing like there's no one out there. Like, are there enough of these people out there? And there are.

22:46And so I think that maybe when we went on here, you were probably scared that I was going to just be like, well, show up on social media anyway. And I think there is an aspect of that that we could consider. But I also think that if this is something that is a roadblock or you just like really don't want to get over it, you know, doing paid ads to an opt-in around something that you could teach would be a really great and effective method to grow your email list. And I think that's where your traction is likely going to be. That is where you're going to make sales. That is where you can connect on a much more intimate level.

23:21And that's where you'll have a direct line to the people who are already interested. What do you think about this? I think it's really interesting because I do paid ads already to like a freebie and I've got a few of them out there. So that's really, really good. And my email list is double what my social media following is. So I'm definitely there already. And I do feel you're right that talking to my email list is different. It just is different. So different. I can flow better on an email and just be myself a little bit more on an email. So that's really, really good. I have just started with Pinterest.

23:58I've been I've used it, but not properly. And now I've started to really dive in and I'm noticing the views are going up and it's get it is getting some traction, but it's a slow burner that one. It is it's a slow burn, but it's a long game. And I think you're wanting to play the long game. And that's what's so interesting is like, I was just telling someone today, I'm like, you know, I have been on the internet for so long that like I get what the algorithm wants and I don't want to play that game anymore. Like, I don't know. I'm just kind of getting over it. And so that's why I like things like Pinterest and email lists because I'm like, these are the long game.

24:36Like it's not the quick dopamine hit that I think a lot of people are after. Like we want real results. And so I just think again, like, yes, you can push through some of that fear. Yes, you can show up a little bit more on social. I think we all could. But at the same point, too, I think there are other avenues where you can really connect with the people who you feel connected with, who get you and get what you do and want it. And I think that just shifts the energy around all of like the shoulds of what we should be doing and kind of allows us to like, you know, be where we are and where we want to be.

25:10So I love that. I would say, too, that it would be interesting to see if you could maybe create one or two more opt-ins and have ads going to those. You probably already have resources or templates or different things that you've created out of your own need. And I always tell people, you know, most of our paid ad spend, I would say like 95 % of what we spend on ads is strictly to grow our email list. It's not to paid offers. Those don't work very well. Very few people will like click on an ad and buy something. And so we spend the majority of our ad spend on freebies that allow people to opt in and allow us to serve them before we ever go to sell to them.

25:53And again, that just shifts that energy. And most of our leads are like under a dollar. And so when you look at it that way, when you have a product like a course or a membership, it's very easy to justify spending a dollar on a lead when you know X amount will convert into paying clients. And especially with a membership, having that recurring model is really powerful. So I would just say like, if you're like, I know I don't want to go big on social media. I know that's not where I want to invest my precious time. Consider creating one or two more opt-ins. And that way too, you can start to get data and like almost split test in a way of like, what are people most curious about?

26:32What are people opting in the most for? And different things like that. And that's something that we're working on in our business right now for the summer is like really looking at like what are our top opt-ins for leads which ones lead to sales where can we just focus on like refining these and optimizing these not adding more complexity but really just kind of digging deeper into like what is working and how do we like make this path even better that's a great idea i'll definitely be doing some more freebies definitely good all right next question okay so i put myself out there and i'm getting all these sort of when i'm posting on social media so obviously i'm going back to social media here because it is still quite important for cake makers to see me and know me and know what i do yeah so i'm still putting myself out there but i don't know the best way to really grow on social media so i am a member of your instagram lab program.

27:29And you talk about the JK five method, which I think is amazing. And I would love to be able to do that method for me, but I struggle with it. And I just stick to posting cake related content because I know cake makers are going to want to see cake related content. So how can I find personal things about me that my audience are going to connect to, but obviously still with this fear of being on social media? Yes. This is such a great segue. I love this. So I think a lot of times we are afraid of social media because we feel like we need to sell on social media, right? Like that is that fear of like, well, who's listening and do they even want to hear this and all of that?