813: Loving Through Disagreement: How to Stay Connected in a Divided World

0:00Imagine this. It's 30 days from now and your podcast is live. Your voice is out in the world and you're building an audience that chooses to tune in every week. That's not just possible. It's waiting for you inside of the podcast lab and enrollment is officially open at teachmetopodcast.com. This is my step-by-step program that walks you through how to plan, produce, publish, promote, and profit from your show, even if you're starting from scratch. Whether you've got a big brand, a small business, or just a powerful story to tell, your podcast could become the most impactful part of your week and your most scalable content channel yet.

0:39So if you've been waiting for a sign, this is it. Go to teachmetopodcast.com to enroll in the podcast lab today. You can get started for as little as$39 today. Let's make your podcast dream real at teachmetopodcast.com. That's teachmetopodcast.com.

1:02Introducing your new Dell PC powered by the Intel Core Ultra Processor. It helps you handle a lot, even when your holiday to-do list gets to be a lot. Because it's built with an all-day battery, plus powerful AI features that help you do it all with ease, from editing images, to drafting emails, to summarizing large documents, to multitasking. So you can organize your holiday shopping and make custom holiday decor and search for great holiday deals and respond to holiday requests and customer questions and customers requesting custom things and plan the perfect holiday dinner for vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, and Uncle Mike's carnivore diet.

1:39Luckily, you can get a PC that helps you do it all faster so you can get it all done. That's the power of a Dell PC with Intel Inside, backed by Dell's price match guarantee. Get yours today at dell.com slash deals. Terms and conditions apply. See dell.com for details.

2:02Each one of us holds so much nuance of where we have been, things we used to believe, things we have participated in, ways we used to vote, ways we used to show up and work, ideas we used to have. And so allowing ourselves to be fully known and accepted it includes all of that nuance. And that's incredibly scary. I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a$300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town, Minnesota with my family.

2:42Here we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered.

3:22This is the Gold Digger Podcast. We've all been in a disagreement with someone that we love deeply. Whether it's a friend, family member, or even a colleague, these conflicts can be challenging and emotionally charged, especially when our values and beliefs clash. It is not enough to just avoid the topic or simply refuse to see these friends and family members anymore. And frankly, that's not productive either. This is why I am so excited to have my guest today to speak to us about how to love others through our disagreements and stay connected with those who matter most in a divided world. Britt Barron is a renowned speaker, teacher, and storyteller whose work has sparked profound conversations around spirituality, race, and personal development.

4:04As the author of Worth It, Overcome Your Fears and Embrace the Life You Were Made For, Britt has captivated audiences with her unique perspective and inspiring message. She is no stranger to the Gold Digger podcast, first making an appearance on the show back in 2018 with a thoughtful discussion on diversity and inclusion, which will all be linked in the show notes. Her latest book, Do You Still Talk to Grandma?, dives deep into the complexities of our relationships in a world increasingly influenced by social media and cancel culture. Britt explores how we navigate relationships with those we love but disagree with and how we confront and learn from our past selves.

4:40I love how she brings a fresh and compassionate approach to understanding these challenges and offers valuable insights on fostering genuine growth and connection. Today, we'll be discussing how to manage the tension between relationship and accountability, the impact of binary thinking on our interactions, and the ways that we can create safe spaces for people to learn and evolve. Britt's perspective on embracing mistakes, handling disappointment, and navigating personal and communal growth promises to be both enlightening and empowering. I'm so excited for you to tune in. Britt, welcome to the Gold Digger podcast.

5:16Super quick question. How many tabs do you have open right now? Like actually go to your browser and check. If you have ADHD like me, it's a lot. And when you throw a business into the mix, it's even more. You might have a tab for your email marketing system, one for your payment software, one for your CRM, content tools, email tools. And with all those tabs, you're spending more time searching through data and less time, you know, growing your business. But with HubSpot's customer platform, you can close all those tabs and access all your tools in one convenient place. With HubSpot, you'll get everyone's eyes on the same work, boost data analysis with AI, optimize workflows for marketing, improve pipeline management for sales, and keep track of every customer question, big or small.

5:59So close those tabs, it's business growing time. Visit HubSpot.com to get started today. That's HubSpot.com. I love when I get to say welcome back to my guest. So Britt Barron, welcome back to the Gold Digger podcast. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yes. Oh my gosh. So much has happened in life, in love, in the pursuit of happiness since you came on the show. How have you been, Phyllis, in on where you've been since 2018 when you first came on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, a lot has happened. So I mean, a lot has happened for all of us since 2020. I think I can't believe that was only four years ago.

6:39It feels like a lifetime ago. But since then, I have been I moved back to LA, my wife and her dog. And we're living the dream. And I wrote another book. And I'm very excited about it. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about this. So your book is perfectly timed. And I'm so excited about when this conversation is airing, because your book is about how to stay close to people that you disagree with. How did you come about this topic? Why did you want to write an entire book on it? Having been an author myself, I know how much work a book is. And so you have to be very passionate about it. So where did all of this stem from?

7:18Yeah, well, I started thinking about this book and dreaming about it in 2021. And I think after 2020 and everything we experienced, I started looking around and I started seeing the conversation online seep into the conversations in our real life. Right. And so this was sort of our first like huge introduction to even the idea of cancel culture. And we're experiencing in real time. Now we have terminology for it. We have words for it. And that started impacting like real relationships. And so I would have conversations with friends who would talk about their grandparents or parents who voted differently from them.

7:56And then the response would be like, oh, do you still talk to them? And I'd be like, oh, wow, like we're canceling grandmas now is what's happening. And so I feel like we had this big social movement that was looking for accountability, but what was really happening was annihilation. Right. And so it felt like we had swung so far that now I was wondering, is there a way to with conviction and integrity of who you are and what you believe still maintain relationships with people who found themselves in different areas? And it looked it just seemed as though we needed a new path. Like I kept asking and wondering, like, what is on the other side of cancel culture?

8:38I see what we're trying to do. And what's the next iteration of how do we move forward? And so it's been a three-year journey of watching sort of things play out. And it's hilarious that it all ended up coming out a month before the election. But we find ourselves here again, right? Yes. I mean, it's so interesting because I feel like the world has never been more divided and divisive. And I feel like a lot of times we almost go into conversations looking to disagree or to find where we don't agree versus finding commonalities. And I'm curious, like what you think even with this season upon us, like how that is playing in to community and connections, because I would argue that we have never felt more isolated or alone in this world that we find ourselves in.

9:29And so how is all of this kind of playing out in real life? Yeah, so I think it's two parts. Like one, one of our deepest needs as humans is a sense of belonging. Like that is something we crave and we'll do almost anything for. And so I would argue part of the reason that we feel so divided and more divided is because we are clinging to whatever sense of belonging we can find. And what we can find are these like very extreme sort of polarizing sides, right? I think we all know what it feels like, whether you've acted on it or not, to see something happening on social media and be like, I need to repost that.

10:07I need to do this because everyone in my group is doing it, right? So we've like attached ourselves to a sense of belonging. There's a story in the book that I talk about a man who was, I was watching a documentary on flat earthers. So people who believe the earth is flat, you know, do you ever just like get to the end of Netflix and you're like I don't know I don't even know how I got here I've been 100 % I've done a lot I don't know this is not like a specific area of research I study but the man doing the interview is like coming in and he's arguing hard like what about all this science and this science and the earth is around and then people are arguing and then one man who literally I'm like you cannot argue with that he sat down and the interview was like here's all the reasons the earth is round and this man just said listen I became a part of this community like this group on Facebook and now I go to two conferences a year we chat in a group chat every day and like these are the people who feed my cats when I'm out of town and I'm like this man doesn't care if the earth is flat round triangle like who's gonna feed his cats when he goes out of town if he disconnects himself from this group so it really doesn't matter what he has to say he believes because what he wants more than anything is the belonging.

11:19And so there's that part of it that I think has created a lot of the polarization that we see because our belonging is like a tie to these extreme things. But then the other side of it, and I think you're completely right, is when we belong to a group that we know can and will so quickly put us on the outs, we actually don't feel like we belong. We feel incredibly alone. And so knowing that our belonging is always on thin ice of making a wrong move, of making a mistake, it's actually the most fragile sense of belonging and isolated sense of belonging we can experience. And so exactly, we have these two extremes.

11:58We want to belong so bad, we'll say and do anything to align ourselves to a group, but it actually doesn't feel like belonging because we have seen what that group can do and will do. And so we're really caught in the middle, and I think a lot of us have paid the price of personal relationships for it. this podcast is brought to you by mercury banking that helps entrepreneurs do more with their money okay i remember in the early days of my entrepreneurship journey clients would literally mail me checks and then i would have to drive all the way to the bank to deposit them it took me literal years to make things go digital and i am ashamed to admit i still have a filing cabinet with paper contracts because i'm way too afraid to throw them away but that's the beauty of growth, right?

12:42Like you learn what systems serve you and which ones hold you back. Mercury is one of those systems that just works. Where traditional banking websites and apps are clunky and hard to use, Mercury is meticulously designed to make doing just about anything with your money feel effortless. And the best part is it flexes to fit all types of businesses. Ready to see what powerful banking can do for your business? Visit mercury.com to apply in minutes. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. For important details, check the show notes. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales.

13:20And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business. You need a website, payment systems, a logo, and a way to reach customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but thankfully that's where today's sponsor Shopify comes in. Shopify powers millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all US e-commerce, from big brands to folks just getting started. They offer beautiful, ready-to-go website templates so you don't need design skills to look professional. Their AI tools help with product images, descriptions, discount codes, and more. Shopify also makes it simple to run email and social campaigns so people can find you.

13:58And if you ever feel stuck, their award-winning 24-7 support is always available. Turn those dreams into and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash gold digger. Go to shopify.com slash gold digger. Shopify.com slash gold digger. Absolutely. I love how you broke that down because I think a lot of times, we don't want to let ourselves be fully known because the risk that comes with it, right? And so I think women especially to generalize is that we are so good at playing the roles that people expect of us in the circles we find ourselves in.

14:46And so in one group, you might be super chatty and outgoing. In another group, you might be more reserved and professional. and we kind of learn how to put these different masks on. And it is scary to be fully known or to be fully expressed because there is always that concern of like, well, what if we disagree? Or will they just leave me if I express this? What is your experience been with that? And like, does the book kind of play into that piece of things? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it's so scary and vulnerable to be fully known because not only, you know, we might agree and disagree on things and where we are now, but to be fully known encompasses also where we've been.

15:29And each one of us holds so much nuance of where we have been, things we used to believe, things we have participated in, ways we used to vote, ways we used to show up and work, ideas we used to have. And so allowing ourselves to be fully known and accepted includes all of that nuance. And that's incredibly scary. But I think one of our number one problems, to be honest, is the fact that if we can't hold that nuance for ourselves, we'll never be able to hold it for someone else. And so something in the book, I call it progressive amnesia. But I'm like, it's this idea where we experience something new, and we learn something new.

16:07And then we pretend like we've always been there. Yes. I'm like, no, I was, you know, this about me, I was a church girly girl girl girl like down to the studs like i jenna this is and i don't like this but i'm sure there is someone in therapy right now some woman sitting in therapy working her way through her relationship with her body because of purity culture and a sermon she heard that she's still unpacking and it was probably me preaching it this is the reality so i don't really get to sit here and judge and hold hold a certain amount of judgment in a specific way as if I never knew what it felt like to sit in those seats and so my friends who know me now you have to know that that's a part of my story and so I'm going to look at the people who sit in those seats and while I hope that they get out of them and would love to urge them forward I'm going to do it in a different type of way because I know how comfortable it felt to sit there right Hmm.

17:08Where does this, this brings me to an interesting shift in the conversation of how do we make room for change? And I feel like being a public personality who has literally kind of grown up on the internet and, you know, lived a million lifetimes and iterations and versions of myself. I often feel like we do not give people the permission to change their mind, change your beliefs, change your attitude. We want to keep people stuck in these identities. And I think that it's a really risky move. And it's also keeps all of us stuck when we don't give people permission to change. And so let's talk about that a little bit, because I think it's really easy.

17:50You know, if you were just to look at me as an example, I have changed and evolved so much. And there are still people that hold on to the 23 year old version of me who loves mac and cheese who is slinging a camera around on the weekend and rescuing puppies. And they might have a really hard time reconciling this version of me. And so let's talk about change and the role that it plays in both the division, but also in the connection of people. Yeah. Yeah. I, I read this quote one time that just like really hit me. And it was like, to love someone is to experience a thousand tiny birthdays of who they're becoming and a thousand tiny funerals of who they were.

18:33And there is just no way that I could. So my wife, Sammy, there's no way that I could expect her to be the person I met in 2013 and call that love. Right. Like I have to be open to be like, okay, what are we experiencing? How are we changing? How are we evolving? And then being able to sit in that relationship with someone then gives you the permission to be like, oh, I'm changing and evolving and I want to share it with this person. That's true connection. We have to have the ability to change. I think what's really hard is when we change in ways that feels like it is putting at risk the connection, right?

19:12So for example, like growing up in church and that being my primary connection, well, now I'm evolving in a way that's putting that connection at risk. So there's a temptation in my mind, like maybe you should not change. right there are there are certain types of change that don't cost us anything I used to like mac and cheese now I can't have dairy and that's a bummer but that's honestly just getting older it's just you know what I mean you're a certain age and I'm cheese and me we're done and that's fine but I was talking with someone about change and changing our minds and he said something that was so interesting to me he's like sometimes when I sit with like someone who is on an opposing belief or side and I'm you know we're going back and forth I'm trying to get them understand he's like I asked myself what would it cost them to agree with me like what would it cost them to change in this way and I think that's a valid and very empathetic question that we have to realize is sometimes we are asking people to grow and change and evolve and we have to know that that costs.

20:19Like, you know, in your position of being on the internet for so long, you can recount and probably feel still in your body, all of the like reverb from every time you changed from every time you made a mistake, felt like you got it right. Did like all of those things you still feel because sometimes change and most of the times change costs us, right? All change is lost in a sense. Yeah. It's so interesting because, you know, even thinking about changing your mind, like what a fascinating idea that we as humans can learn and change our minds. That brings me to thinking about having discussions with people who think differently.

21:01And I love how you kind of segued into this because one thing that I think is happening that actually very much terrifies me is that we create echo chambers either consciously or unconsciously very frequently. And I even remember there were specific times in the last year where there were people that I followed that were posting things that I vehemently disagree with. And my first reaction was to unfollow them. And then I had to sit with it and say, well, I want to even try to understand how they could see this thing this way. I don't comprehend it. It's so clear to me. And I think that with the internet, it is like this perfect microcosm of like, I don't agree, I'm unfollowing.

21:44Well, all of a sudden, then you are only seeing one side. And I think that is absolutely detrimental to not only our belief systems and anchoring them into why we believe what we do, but also having empathy that people do see things differently. And that's okay, too. Let's talk about this. Oh, my gosh, you're exactly right. So in one sense, and something you just laid out perfectly, that train of thought that's like, oh, something I disagree with, unfollow, block. Like that is just so easy. That is a straight line on the internet. But in real life, we have tried to make it a straight line also.

22:24Oh, Aunt Susie said this, unfollow, block. But you're like, oh my gosh, there is actually so much wound up in that thing. And I think when we allow ourselves to only be surrounded by people who we agree with, we really shut ourselves off from the ability to even change our minds. Yeah. Right. And we shut ourselves off from the ability to encounter new information and to have healthy conversations. Right. I think there is something it's so beautiful about being able to have a conversation with people I disagree with and the end goal not to be OK. After this conversation, it will only be a success if they also change their mind.

23:04I think it's a success if I understand a little bit about where they came from, if they're understanding me, if I moved a quarter of degree, if they moved a quarter of degree, if we come back to this conversation. And I don't know when this happened, but we have made changing our minds such a short game when in the reality, it's such a long game. like having conversations and then having them again and then just hanging out and having a drink and not talking about anything deep because you're just like um like all of that is okay and i think good and natural and we have made this like oh these are the things you can't disagree on where i think that will leave us i fear is completely alone and i think we've something that plays into this that I think about a lot, which I think you'll understand embodying the role you do is we have such a desire and a, in a craving for external authorities, right?

24:01And so we want our pastor to tell us what to do. We want our mayor to tell us what to do. We want, okay, well, okay, that broke down. So we want an influencer. Okay. That broke down. So we want a different influencer that broke down. So we want a different podcast. That person said something. And what we're actually doing is also a disservice to these people. We're saying, okay, I'm only looking for someone to listen to who I can 100 % every single thing that comes out of their mouth agree with. And then they can be my guide. When I'm like, we need to understand and feel confident in ourselves and be able to say, I like that thing that they said.

24:36That was a good episode. This makes sense to me. And that can be that, right? but I think you know better than most that's not even how we treat people I think it's it used to be only how we treated like celebrities and influencers but now I feel it's how we're starting to treat everybody which is very scary yeah you know I only share stuff I'm genuinely obsessed with and so when I kept seeing Bolin brand sheets all over Instagram I was like okay are these actually worth the hype Drew and I have been using their sheets and duvets for over a year now and honestly our bedroom feels like a completely different space.

25:15The moment you touch these sheets you'll get it. They're incredibly soft to start but they literally get softer every time you wash them. They're made from 100 % organic cotton so they're super durable and they're breathable which is perfect for piling on cozy layers without turning into a furnace at 2am. This is hands down the best bedding I've slept on and I'm so genuinely excited for you to try it. Start building your sanctuary of comfort this fall with Bowl and Branch. For a limited time, get 20 % off your first set of sheets plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com slash golddigger. That's bowlandbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash golddigger to save 20 % and unlock free shipping.

25:56Exclusions apply. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm all about creating spaces where people actually want to be. So when we started hosting on Airbnb, it honestly felt like the most natural thing in the world. And it's turned into one of the best decisions we've ever made. Over the years, we've hosted hundreds of couples in our little spaces. We've had so many repeat guests come back and we've created this incredible community, not just with our guests, but also with the people who help us care for our space. Whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared, hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice.

26:34And just think about it. If you've put a ton of time, effort, and work into your home, someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling. So next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces, you should definitely host on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. It was so funny. I was recently with some friends who were very strong personalities and they very much disagreed on a very hot topic that has to do with the election. And it was fascinating. I just literally sat there like, if I could have had popcorn and watched this conversation.

27:11And what was interesting about it was that they both were approaching it from the perspective of I am right, you are wrong, and I will convince you in your wrongness so that you can see that I'm right versus the conversation of like, help me to understand why you see it this way. And I mean, it was getting to the point where we were pulling sources and research data. And I was like, you know, it was fascinating to watch the unfolding. And there was so much beauty in the conviction that each person held that like couldn't be disregarded. But at the same point, too, there was so much lost in the ability to just say, we aren't going to see eye to eye on this.