827: From Screen Time to Quality Time: How to Build a Tech-Free Lifestyle

25:26And if not, what do we do with that information? And for us, we just came to the realization that we can't say no to devices without saying yes to something better. So we really, I just sat down with, okay, why do algorithms work so well? Why does technology work so well? Why, you know, what is it about Minecraft that's so addicting to a child? Is there a way to gamify, you know, to talk about RO boxes. Is there a way to gamify that in the household to make this an engaging experience for kids? So it's not just, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this, but it's, we're doing this instead together.

26:00I think that replacing thing is so important. And, you know, it's interesting because Drew and I were talking the other night and we were laughing because I was like, babe, do you remember TGIF? Like, like Sabrina, the teenage witch boy meets world, like the whole arsenal, right? Like I was like, that was like my babysitter on Friday nights. Like I watched the whole gamut of all of those things. And we were just kind of laughing to each other because, you know, we watched a lot of TV as kids. And we were talking about how, you know, when you know better, you do better, right? And also in this zone of parenthood, I also feel like there's so much judgment and there's so many thoughts and ideas And it's like, we feel guilt if you do one thing or you see a family doing something different and it's like, oh my gosh.

26:51And we were just having this really interesting conversation just about like, yeah, like what, what feels good to us? And like, as parents, like what supports our own need for time and space, but how do we do it in a way that isn't isolating or, you know, all these different things. And I, I feel like Aaron, you and I are the people who like, we ask those big questions and we have to sit with the answers. And I feel like that is the starting place, the foundation of this ideology and so many others is like, you know, for a listener, I'm thinking like, what maybe just defining what is your relationship with tech?

27:27What is your comfort level with it? What do you feel good about? What do you not feel good about? Because I feel like these are bits and pieces are being served to us, usually through algorithms of do this, not that, say this, not that, you know, this is the impacts of that. but a lot of times we don't sit alone with our own thoughts and visions of like, what does that actually mean? And how does this look in our lives? Would you agree? Oh my gosh. Yes. And you know what I would also say that sort of, I feel like leaving social media has made me so much bolder in my conviction. I truly, because I'm not hearing all those voices, I don't even know what people are saying about iPads.

28:07I mean, maybe they're saying they're all great. I have no idea. I don't care because what I do know is what's happening in my own house. I do know that I do see it play out that oftentimes it is easier to parent without any sort of technological influence than it is to balance it. You know, it's, it is easier. And so there is, you know, an argument to be made that actually I'm taking the easy way out and everyone else is actually doing the hard work of the tension and living in it. But I don't know. I don't have that ticker tape of voices in my head anymore of like, oh, well, this expert said this and this expert said this.

28:44I know only what I have sought out in the research of this book and then how that has played out in the people's lives that I love. And I have many examples to point to of what is actually working on the ground level that is not easy and tidy. in a soundbite or a quick Instagram story, you know, of the do this, not say that, or what I feel like all of that was happening when I was exiting. And I know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's very hard to navigate. Yes. And that's what like a lot of times my mom will say, like, you guys have it so hard these days, because there's so many philosophies, there's so many contrarian beliefs, there's so many polarizing topics, there's so many things that make you feel like you're doing things wrong.

29:30And that's where like, we have to figure out how to silence the noise. And obviously opting out is one of the ways. One thing that I've been talking to my friends about, I have a really close group of mom friends in our circle. And one of them is navigating with her 12 year old where her 12 year old is like, all my friends have iPhones. And, you know, and, and, and my mom friend is like, I thought we were all on the same page. Like what happened to these parents are dropping like flies. Like, you know, what do we do? And she sent me a little text string that her and her daughter had had through the iPad.

30:03Because she's like, you can use the iPad and I can help you use it wisely and all these things. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales. And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business. You need a website, payment systems, a logo, and a way to reach customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but thankfully, that's where today's sponsor, Shopify, comes in. Shopify powers millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all U.S. e-commerce, from big brands to folks just getting started. They offer beautiful, ready-to-go website templates so you don't need design skills to look professional.

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31:18Anyone who knows me knows that I'm all about creating spaces where people actually want to be. So when we started hosting on Airbnb, it honestly felt like the most natural thing in the world. And it's turned into one of the best decisions we've ever made. Over the years, we've hosted hundreds of couples in our little spaces. We've had so many repeat guests come back and we've created this incredible community, not just with our guests, but also with the people who help us care for our space. whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice and just think about it if you've put a ton of time effort and work into your home someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling so next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces you should definitely host on Airbnb your home might be worth more than you think.

32:09Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. How do you navigate this when your kids are being exposed to other methods? Like how do you make this enticing or interesting? Like what are you coming up against battles? Are they demanding to have the same things other people? Like what, what does this even look like in, in real life? Yeah. I mean, honestly for us, like we've knew from my husband worked at Apple's ad agency. So he knows how the sausage is made. We knew, and with my experience as an influencer, we knew from the get-go, like this is not, social media is not a place where we want our kids to be.

32:46And we recognize that the smartphone is the on-ramp to that. And so for us, from a very young age, we, I remember, you know, taking my daughter, she was probably five at the time out to dinner. And we just went and we sat out at a little beaster table and we just, people watched. And I was like, okay, what are you noticing about other people in the world? Like what, like, tell me, tell me like your thoughts. What are you seeing? and she was like, mom, nobody's talking to each other. Everybody's on the phone. And gosh, this was seven, eight years ago now. And she is a, you know, her friends all have phones.

33:17And we talked about it so much that she now feels this like personal conviction to save her friends from, you know, the demise, because truly like if you, well, one thing that we have done, I will say, this has really worked really well for us is we're the low tech hangout zone. So people can come over at any time. We always say, leave your phones at home. The kids are very fine with it. The parents are like, no, no, no, no. They need the phone to be able to contact us. And we're like, well, we'll get a landline. Here's the number. Like, yeah, like it's a non-negotiable, right? Just, just come over and play in the yard.

33:52We're going to have a bonfire. It's going to be fine. You know, like, and so the parents took some warming up to that idea, which was interesting to me, but the kids were like, gosh, thank you. I need a break from this. I'm so exhausted being responsible for this thing and fielding all of the messages and all of the information that I need. I cannot think of any child or teen that I spoke with that said, I would rather be on my phone than hang out with my friends. And so if you let them hang out with their friends in a way where the phone isn't invited, because what does happen then is you hang out with your phone with your friends or you hang out with your friends with their phones, and then you're not actually hanging out.

34:32So there is kind of something to be said for retraining people, how to live without this thing. And a lot of kids just don't know how to, and if they're in school, you know, they are sort of trained to take special care of this iPad. This is really important. It's a big responsibility. Your whole life is on this thing. And so from the get go, you know, they're having to check Google classroom every day for their grades and everything and their assignments. And they are kind of taught that over-reliance on a device and resetting that is a little bit important. So I, I do, I, I, we have a low tech hangout zone and it's an open door policy.

35:10Whoever wants to come can come, which is really helpful because we get to know the kids that are in our kids' lives and we get to talk to them about what's going on. And we are the family that they'll, they'll go to. And if, and I've even had a friend say, can you keep my phone over the weekend? I just don't want the distraction. And I'm like, yeah, you bet. We'll keep it for you. We'll set up a business where you drop your phone off and pay us 20 bucks. That's right. Yeah. It's wild, but we're not shy about it. We have always set the boundary and we've always talked to our kids about it and our kids get it.

35:43They really do. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That doesn't seem like a great fun way to live. And let's go for a hike in the woods instead. I love that. I think it's, you know, it's so interesting. I I'm like brought back even in time of years ago, whenever my girlfriends would go out, I would hold open my purse and make everyone put their phones into my purse. And I would basically like zip it shut and like sit at the table because, you know, we all know what it's like to be talking to someone who's not really there. Or we know what it's like to be like, what is actually happening on your phone that is so important right now.

36:18I've even had family members get really upset with me because I'm like, if everyone's just going to sit on their phones, we can go do this at home. Like we don't need to get out of the house to do this where I can get a little bold with what my words are around it because, you know, it is, it's so easy to see. And, and, you know, I, I often laugh at memes that are like talking about like when you finally get off your phone and then you look at your partner and they're still on it and you act all superior of like, look at me, I got off of it. And it's like, you know, but I think for a lot of people, that's the reality, right?

36:49Like it's like their time with other people is sitting near them, but not being with them. And I think that at the heart of intimacy, we crave deeper connection, but maybe we don't leverage the means to actually get there. So I am curious. One of my favorite things was getting your new book in the mail. And then you said like, I'm not really like doing this the traditional way. Like here's a couple extra copies. give it out to people like the grassroots style of marketing. Cause you're like, I'm not going to go against my message to get this book out into the world. And so talk to me about what that has looked like for you, especially even from like a business standpoint, we have a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this and they're like, that sounds amazing to get off of my phone, but like, what does this look like?

37:37And so talk to me a little bit about that. You know, and it was really interesting. This was, I give all credit to my publisher because they were so willing to let me do this a different way. Cause I was like, Hey, here's the book idea. Take it or leave it. Cause I'm not doing it with social media. I recognize I have nothing to offer you. Right. And the book was Amazon bestseller hit all the chart. Like it's still, you can sell a book without social media. It is very possible. And I know I'm preaching to the choir here because you're an email list person. You're a believer in email. And I fully agree.

38:05I don't do a great job with email marketing, but I do a very great job with email. And what I will say is the one thing that I did once I ran that kind of thought experiment was I recognized, gosh, every opportunity that I love just came from a simple email check-in saying like, Hey, I like your work. I admire what you're doing. Keep going. Just even a place of encouragement. It wasn't ever like, I want to work with you. It was just the recognition that there are people in this world, in industries that need encouragement because they're, you know, you only get an email when you're doing something wrong.

38:44I feel like that's the majority of our inboxes. And so I started a practice where every day before I would even open, you know, any sort of work check, anything, if before I would even receive an email, I would just hit compose and I would write an email to somebody that was on my heart. It could be somebody I already knew. It could be somebody I didn't know yet. And I would just say, I'm grateful for your work. And let me tell you what has impacted me about your work and just from a random stranger or an old friend. I've received this email from you. So like, I'm the recipient of what you're talking about.

39:22And it's amazing. It just, it matters. It matters. I've been on the receiving end of those and they make a big difference. And so that to me has made the difference in terms of still being able to have a career as a writer, you know, whether it's, you know, writing articles or writing books for other people are writing books for myself or writing anything at all. I credit it to just true connection, which is so interesting because that's what we want from social media. Anyway, that's what we want. We want to make an impact and we want to spread goodness. You know, no one goes onto Instagram to feel bad and to create bad things or send out bad messages.

39:58We want good in the world. We want positivity and light in the world. And we can do that on a one-to-one basis and still make the same amount of impact. I would even argue a greater impact. Okay. If somebody is listening to this and they're wanting to go more tech-free, maybe they're not willing to log off of Instagram and never go back on. Maybe they're recognizing in this conversation that they want to have a different relationship. Where do we start? What does that look like starting the application today? What's something we could do today? Where I started was I turned on all the parental controls on my own phone.

40:37So I was just curious, what would it be like to move through the world without internet in your pocket? Right. And so, but yeah, I wasn't ready to take the plunge of the light phone or the wise phone or whatever. And I didn't want to spend the money on a new thing and learn the whole new thing. So I was like, wait a minute, I could just turn parental controls are not just for the kids. I can turn them on for myself and they can be for parents. And so I took internet. I took everything off my phone except phone and text. I kept maps because I just did. I would love to say I got away from that, but I didn't.

41:08And then I just didn't ever turn the settings back on. So I just do. I carry around a total dumb phone. But honestly, and so that was helpful just as an experiment. What actually was I using my phone for? What do I miss? Which apps felt like a necessity? I remember having to go to the bank in person to deposit a check. And that felt like a real chore because I was able to do it like through the app or whatever. But then I'm like, oh my gosh, you still get suckers. Like they still give you little lollipops, like the bank tellers. I'm like, well, this is great. Talk about be more engaging than the algorithm.

41:41My app never did that. And so I started there and it was really helpful for me to know what, when it came time for my kids to start saying like, well, my friends will have phones or we need this app or we need this for this sort of program. or for my email communication in my theater program or whatever, it was really helpful to say, yeah, I know exactly where you are because here's what I had to do instead. And so I was able to kind of model that and walk through that and navigate the tension of what happens if you're in a diner and it's a QR code menu, or how do you board a flight without the app or whatever.

42:17So lots of those little sticky points I've had to relearn all for the better. I found that there was nothing that I absolutely needed on my phone that I couldn't do in a roundabout way that was maybe more enjoyable for me that felt, you know, truer to like the pace of being a human. And so I started there, but the other thing that I did that was really surprising that helped the most, even more so than that was, you know, the cute little family photo wallpaper and sort of lock screen that you have, or like the, there's like a, you know, watercolor, beautiful image and it's peaceful. I just took that off.

42:52I made the phone black and it sent this crazy signal. I didn't even expect to my brain that was like, this is now a phone. It's not your phone. My life isn't on this anymore. Right. My family. And it was funny talking to a product designer. He's like, Aaron, do you think that we did that? Like on accident? Do you think we did it just for fun? Like we wanted you to get the dopamine hit from the get go, right? Like put your finger on the screen and there's all the people you love right there. It's not an accident, you know? And so I just changed it to black and it was actually, now it sits on my kitchen counter.

43:25Anybody can use it. There's nothing on it. It's dead to me. It calls my dentist and it texts my aunt and what else do you need it? You know, what else do you need it for? It's kind of a lovely way to just experiment, no pressure, but just experiment and see, you know, maybe you'll find that there are apps that you really need to live, but you're going to come away with more information and you're going to know a lot more about what some of those replacement values might be for your life. I love so much about this. A few things that Drew and I have done that have been really helpful because I'm not to where you are yet.

43:59I'm going to say the word yet. It's like we haven't slept with our phones in our bedroom for decades. I mean, like over a decade, it has been so long. So it's like no devices in our bedroom, which is just so beautiful. And I feel like we actually talk after the kids go to bed and we read books and we sleep like what a concept. And we don't wake up with it right next to us either. So it's like there's zero scrolling happening in our bedroom. And it's so funny because people are like, well, what if there's an emergency or something happens, you know, and like in all of the 10 years, there's been one time that I missed a phone call and there was I couldn't have done anything in that phone call.

44:36Right. Like it was just a phone call. And so it's just wild in that of like, I think that's just an excuse that we use to keep ourselves tethered. We also do like no devices on dates. So like a lot of times we used to leave our phones in our glove box. Now that we have children, one of us will bring a phone in, but it's the standard. It's just the standard of like, it stays in the purse. If the nanny needs you, they'll call like, you know, it's, it's okay. Same with like no devices for our kids at mealtime. And I know that can be a little triggering because I understand that for some families, you know, every family is different and that experience is different.

45:11But for us, we never hand our kids a device at mealtime. And it's so fun now because like we do brunch every weekend and like our kids are three and going to be six. And like, it's so fun. Like they're so good at meals and they love it and they love the experience of the restaurant and we're not rushed anymore. And there were definitely years where we were just like, let's get through this, like get the food, get the bill, let's get out of here before anyone combust. and it's like they're learning the experience of dining out and so maybe for somebody listening those are just some ways i know aro released the app now where it will track your phone and the amount of time you spend off of it with or without the box which i think is really powerful so i'll post the link of how you can do that you don't need the pretty aesthetic box although i highly recommend it um in your pantry where you can track how much time you're off of your phone and and you can kind of gamify that aspect as well.

46:05But you know, it's so interesting. And I've just, I've loved like watching you just like brazenly do it, but also do it in the Aaron way, which is what I love. I love so much. Where can everybody find out more about your book and learn more about how to go deeper on this tech-free idea? Tell me all the places. Yeah, of course. I mean, the book is available anywhere books are sold. We did set up a website. Wouldn't it be funny if Like you can find us on Instagram. You can't. But we did set up a website and it's actually, it's just resources. Everything's free. There's no funnel. There's no like, I mean, I have no stake in this game except for I did feel really compelled to write the book.

46:48And then I just kind of went off grid after that. And so I knew I wanted to be able to send people to a place for people that had questions. And so there's a lot of Q &A. There's a ton of resources. There are, you know, screen-free swaps to recommend if you're struggling with one particular area. There's like a brain detox guide from a neuroscientist. There's such cool stuff for families or households of any sort, wherever you are, like on the tech journey or on the opt-out journey. And so honestly, that website is optoutfamily.com. But if there's a resource on that's not on there that somebody needs, I love when people email me and say, can you make something like this?

47:25Because that's what we're here for. It's just we're we I want to help. I do. I think that this is going to be a really I see kind of the tides changing. I see a lot of families would say that this is probably their number one hardship in their house. And and I do have some insight on it, just having gone through it already and talking to so many people and so many different families are doing it so many different ways. And I will always say that there is no wrong answer except to not question it at all. So if you're in that space where you're questioning, there is absolutely no judgment, no shame, no direct one path that is the only way that I think will work.

48:04But you're in the right spot just questioning it. And that will never steer you wrong if you can move forward from that place. I love you. This was so awesome. I'm so inspired. I want to just come hang out at your house. Do it. And see all the craziness and all the fun. This is just such a thought-provoking conversation. I have a hunch that a lot of listeners will circle back on this and that they are going to maybe ask those questions that they've been avoiding after hearing this conversation. So thank you so much for coming back on the show all these years later. And you know this, but you have just touched my life so deeply.

48:41And I'm just so grateful that you continue to follow your calling wherever it's leading you. Oh, thank you, Jenna. Same, same, same. I'm glad you're in the arena and you're making such wonderful work. And we are all very grateful. So thank you. I can't speak for everyone here, but I can speak for myself. This conversation today challenges me to really get honest about my relationship with technology and devices and the role that it plays not only in my life, but in my family's lives. You know, I have always been a huge fan of boundaries. And the more that I put my phone away and take space from it, the more life I live and the fullness of life that I experience.

49:22And coming from a digital marketer who has literally grown her business on the internet, I recognize the nuance and just how complex this topic can really be. And so my challenge for you today is to do Aaron's exercise to really look at the needle movers in your life and maybe how different relationships came into your life and how you can create more of that, but also to look at how you are feeling when you are checking in and checking your phone and what does it feel like to be on? I feel like offline, I've been having so many of these conversations. I feel like this is a really present topic for a lot of parents and also for entrepreneurs like.

50:05And I just hope that today's conversation maybe puts a stake in the sand for you of where you can really start to set the boundaries that you've been desiring to set or to take a step back and to go on the tech-free journey, whatever that looks like for you. I am so grateful for Erin. I'm so grateful for you, my listener. Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast on your technology. I see it. And thank you so much for listening to this show. Of course, until next time, gold diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals. And thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the gold digger podcast.

50:42I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action and realigned you with your true North in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to gold digger podcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.