869: Data Over Drama: How Female Leaders Can Scale with Strategy, Not Emotion

25:52And I was just doing it. Like, I'm like, I'm just figuring it out along the way. And I, I think it's more of like my mindset of just like how I grew up of like, you just figure it out. Um, but yeah. Let's talk about the team piece. Cause I agree. and it's interesting too because as people's businesses grow, a lot of times their team grows, right? I never went into photography being like, I'm going to lead a team of 12 someday. I'm going to be responsible for their livelihoods and their family's livelihoods. All of it is going to be on my shoulders. And at the end of the day, I need to go to bed and sleep well.

26:28It's interesting because a lot of times when we get ourselves into these positions, our day-to-day doesn't look how we necessarily imagined it would look or maybe the stories we were told of how it would look. But I agree. I think managing a team and different personalities, different working styles and trying to be conscious and aware is really exhausting. And it's funny because I can literally not leave my house for an entire week and not even realize it and not feel lonely because I feel like I have been sending energy through the ether back and forth and in communication with people all week long.

27:09What have you experienced with that? Yeah. So we, you know, acquired the company with zero people. It was just Jacqueline and I, and I had to build the team from scratch, right? So hiring a sales team, marketing team, operations team, finance team, like every team you could possibly think of. And it has been such a humbling experience to say the least. I think a lot of people, like we had just talked about, they don't realize how much of an energy exchange it is. And same, I'll be in my office all day, all day, not leave, but feel like I have been just in large groups of people all the time. I would say things that I've kind of also learned and experienced is one, or realized.

27:53One, nobody gives you grace. Nobody's ever asking, Marina, how are you doing? Outside of my husband, right? And that's not really their job. Like they don't really, they want to do their job. Right. And so I think like, that's one thing that I'm like, as long as I'm taking care of myself, I can continue showing up right for everybody in my life. The second thing is I, I sometimes realize that again, talking about energy, like maybe sending a 6am slack or an email at certain times might not be a good idea, even though I want to just get it done. And so it's little tweaks that I've been trying to do, whether it's like scheduling the message to go out at a specific time so it does not spike their nervous system.

28:32And, you know, and then also on the flip side is like really, really focusing on how do I show up when maybe something did not go right and I have to have a hard conversation. Right. Those are I think those are like the learning experiences that I'm like, like firing someone for the first time. I never had to do that before. And like, I hated it. I hated it. I cried so much the night before I cried right after. And I was like, this is terrible. And I'm probably gonna have to eventually, eventually do it again. It's just inevitable. And it's like, those things suck. But they're just like part of business, you know, and but yeah, I ended up like equipping myself with like, I have a therapist, I have a leadership coach, I'm like trying to just make sure that I'm being fueled.

29:14And like, I just have a village of support. So I can continue supporting my team. I think that's so huge. And I agree. I think sometimes... I was recently talking about this, but my husband and I, we have operated for many, many years where he's on a need-to-know basis with my business. My business is such a small part of my life that when I close the laptop at the end of the day, we personally don't talk about business. And I was like, now I'm at a stage where I'm like, I need you to know what I'm doing because you might walk by and I'm on the couch on my computer and it might just look like, you know, I'm sitting there AOL instant messaging, but I'm reviewing contracts.

29:55I'm talking to lawyers. I'm making big decisions. I'm trying new things. I'm doing research like where I'm like, everything is moving so fast these days that to like stay on top and to stay in a leadership position, it requires a different level of mental stamina and emotional intelligence. I think both of those two things are so huge for leaders these days. It's like, we're supposed to be creative and intuitive and in touch with what's going on. And at the same time, be able to lead through these brand new things in a way that, you know, gets your team on board. And so it's a really interesting and delicate dance.

30:33And I love that you talked about getting kind of your support team, because I also think that's so huge, whether it's peers, you know, in your industry that you can talk to and work through things with or therapists. I saw something once where it was like, if you want to learn where you need healing, like become an entrepreneur because entrepreneurship reveals all the areas of your life that you need healing or that you feel exposed or that your ego needs work. And so, you know, I think we all kind of experience that. But a lot of times that's the work that happens behind closed doors that doesn't get brought to light very often.

31:08Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think an ego is a big one. Like ego is so, so big. And I like, I think about the whole time on the flip side, my husband and I, all we do is talk about work that sometimes I'm like, Hey, we've got to talk about something else. And then it just goes silent because it's like, what else are we going to talk about? Isn't that funny? I think it's like one camp or the other, right? Isn't that hilarious? is. Oh, I love it. It's like when you go on dates and then you look at photos of your kid the whole time and you were like begging to get time away. And then you're like, look at how cute they are.

31:41Oh my gosh. They did this thing the other day. It's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, step out. A hundred percent. But yeah, no, those micro communities that we were talking about earlier is definitely one of the things that I would say tap into when you're looking to build a team. I do want to say that like, if you are in the early stages of your business, I think one advice that I wish people gave me that I got the opposite of is like, everybody was like, you need a massive team, you need a massive team. And like, you actually don't, you don't need a bunch of people. Like, and I think a lot of the times we think these large companies have teams of 20, 30, 40, 50, and like they don't, and they can thrive as long as you have your systems and operations like in check.

32:17And that's a big thing for me. You're good. Like don't rush to hire a bunch of people. Like you just don't need it. Oh my gosh. I couldn't agree more. We have between 10 and 12 people total. And that's between contractors and salaried. And I am of the vein of like, we are small and nimble and we can move a lot faster than if we have all of these layers of people that we need to go through. And so I've actually had a lot of friends that have the big teams that they're like, I miss those days where like we could move quickly, we could execute well. You know, there wasn't all of these channels to go through.

32:52So I couldn't agree more. I agree. so I want to know obviously you're a mom and you know balancing motherhood running a company we all know it is not easy what have been some of your biggest lessons in navigating your career and motherhood yeah so I brought up my husband earlier we're both entrepreneurs and I think there's definitely pros and cons of marrying another entrepreneur and pros and cons of being with someone that is maybe in corporate or has more of that stability and I I think that for us I always look at it as like such a blessing. And how cool is it that, you know, our son can see this as the norm, right?

33:30Like being this entrepreneur, being a CEO, running this business for my business. It's like it is a business focused conferences that we do in events. And it's like all empowering women and all giving access and advancing women. And so the fact that he can see that is really cool. I don't believe in balance. Like it just doesn't exist. And I, that's something I learned pretty quickly. Even when I was working in corporate, I started as a single mom when I had my son. And so it was really hard to find that balance. And I feel like I was very hard on myself because I wasn't finding it. And I was like, oh wait, it doesn't exist.

34:03Like, why am I trying to search for this balance? And so I think it's more of this harmony. I integrate Sebastian in a lot of the things that I do. He comes to events when he can. He's, you know, I'm on a Zoom call and he's in the background. Like, I don't apologize for that. So it's very integrated into the work that I do and kind of the culture that I've created in work and outside of work. I think that that's also very important for mothers that are listening, whether you have your own company or not. Being able to like set those boundaries are going to be really important. One thing that I would say is like I'm working harder on now is like when I do turn off my computer, I also turn off my phone.

34:40And I'm just like I try to be present versus trying like because the work never ends, you know. And I think that if I can just like refill my cup with allocating time with him and my family, I think that to me is where the harmony comes in. Because there's other times that like, for example, tomorrow I'm flying out for a few days for an event. And it's like, I don't want to feel guilty for doing that, but I also want to be present while I'm home. And so it's really finding those boundaries and actually implementing them is the biggest thing that I've kind of found that has been really helpful.

35:13Yeah, I love that. And I mean, let's be honest, there are very few real emergencies in the work that we do. And so I think oftentimes like we get feathered to this idea of like jesting. What if? What if? And it's like in over a decade, I don't think there's been like a single real emergency happening here. Right. Like we're all going to be OK if we catch it a few hours later. I love that. And I agree. It was so funny. We just got baby chicks. We're going to have chickens. and this morning my six-year-old was dreaming up her egg endeavor where she's going to sell eggs at the end of our driveway and I texted my husband and I was like she realizes we have four chicks and we eat a lot of eggs right and he's like well it looks like we're not going to be eating the eggs after all she has a business don't crush her dreams and I'm like maybe we should have got more chickens then so we were laughing so hard because they were naming their business and I was like so what she's going to stand at the end of the driveway with one carton of eggs like explain this to me.

36:11Maybe we'll go with the lemonade stand. I love it. That's hilarious. I love it. And I think that, you know, it's interesting too, as our kids age, cause you said your son's nine, you know, they start to pay attention a lot more and start to understand it. And so it can be so hard when you have such young kids and they like have no idea what you do or why you do it or what work is like my daughters, every time I'm like, I got to get worked. And they're like, oh man, I'm like, you realize all of this exists because of the work I do. And so it's awesome to kind of take them on the ride. And I feel like they do see possibility and see, you know, the different opportunities in a beautiful way.

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38:19Whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared, hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice. And just think about it. If you've put a ton of time, effort, and work into your home, someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling. So next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces, you should definitely host on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. Did you have any examples of entrepreneurship in your life before you became one?

38:55Yes. So I was born in Egypt when I came here. My dad was an engineer. My mom was a science professor. And so when we came to the States, they kind of had to start all over again. And so everybody in my family were either like doctors or lawyers or whatever in corporate. So they and my aunts and uncles would open pizzerias. and they would build them and then flip them. And they never identified as entrepreneurs. And as I got older, I was like, you guys knew you're entrepreneurs and small business owners. Like, this is crazy. And for the longest time, I also didn't associate them as entrepreneurs.

39:31And so I really saw that growing up. When their business wasn't working, literally going out and handing menus and figuring out how to market. they had no idea, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, I definitely grew up seeing that, but I will tell you, they were not thrilled when I decided to go out on my own. And they were like, I think now they kind of get like, I'm doing well for myself. But in the beginning, they were just like, you're unemployed, like you're unemployed. What is this imaginary thing you're doing here? Yeah. And comparing it, you know, for people that, you know, my cousins that are doctors and insurgents and, you know, VPs of different companies.

40:11And they're like, Oh, my daughter does these like events for girls and women. It was like, Oh God, it sounds so sad in comparison, but now they get it. They've seen, you know, the scale of the event. But yeah, that was my example growing up. That's so sweet. And I feel like that is common for people stepping into entrepreneurship. Like I remember when I was in corporate and told my parents like, Hey, I think I'm going to quit and just like, I got this camera on Craigslist, I'll figure it out. They were like, you have benefits. You have a 401k, you have security. And what are you doing? This is crazy.

40:47And I am grateful for the questions they asked because it really did make sure like I knew what I was going into. But it is interesting as well. And we talked about the word ego before because it can feel really hard. I know for me, it felt like an identity crisis to go from like this long, fancy title to try to describe the vision or how important it was or how good I was at things. And it's like, it's not up to anyone else to understand it, you know, as long as you understand it yourself. And I think a lot of times when we're starting our quote, little businesses, it can be really pushing up against a lot of the societal norms that we've been taught or a lot of the ways that we perceive value and importance.

41:33Did that happen for you at all? Or were you just kind of like let them think what they want to think. I know what I'm doing. Listen, so I, so I went out on my own because I got laid off. So Yahoo News like lost funding and I got laid off. And I remember like, again, I'm a very, like I lead with emotion sometimes, but I'm very like, go, go, go, go. Like I got to figure this out. I got laid off on a Tuesday by Wednesday. I was like, this is what I'm doing kind of thing. And this was five years ago. And I remember my cousin reached out to me who works at Amazon and was like, Hey, like totally support you.

42:02But like, can you just send me your resume? I'm going to just throw it around and see if you can get a job in the meantime. And I was like, no, like, no, I can do this. And I actually set a goal for myself early on as an entrepreneur. I was like, I'm going to give myself three months. And I realized the second that I removed that three months goal, and I was like, no, I'm going to do this. I'm going to figure it out. And no matter how long it takes, that's really where things kind of like flourished for me because I was like, this is my only option. A hundred percent, everybody was like, what are you doing?

42:35Don't do it. And I just really have to remind myself, like that does come up, at least for me, it did come from a place of caring and like nurturing. And they just wanted me to be good, especially because I had this child and, you know, and, but I had the support of my husband and he's like, go do it. Like, this is what you've wanted to always do. And I will tell you what I started five years ago versus what I'm doing now. it's aligned on the same mission, but it is drastically different. And so I really challenge someone if like, if you're doing something, allow the evolution to happen. Like, don't be so strict on like, well, this is how I wanted to do it.

43:11And this is, you know, what I was going to do. Like, maybe redefine what success looks like for you as you're growing and allow yourself to like outgrow rooms, allow yourself to like, be really uncomfortable, because I think that's where the grosses. And that's kind of what eventually got my family and friends and stuff like that to be like, oh, I feel like she kind of knows what she's doing. We truly trust her. And like, we kind of let her do that. Yeah, that is such good advice. Because I think too, if we start going out into the world and sharing this vision, it is harder to allow the vision to evolve.

43:49Because a lot of times we almost hold ourselves, it's like sunk cost fallacy, right? of like, well, I've already put in this much or I announced to the world that I'm doing it this way. So I have to follow through now. And entrepreneurship is just one big evolution. Like I don't know any successful entrepreneurs that haven't had multiple iterations or multiple identities. And you talked about it at the very beginning of the show of just like the multi-passionate woman. And I think every human is multi-passionate. We've just gotten too comfortable at putting people into boxes. And so I love that advice of like, let it evolve, hold it loosely.

44:26I feel like I've learned to like hold visions and goals loosely to allow the fluidity of it all in life to transform it. And I think oftentimes the end result is better than what you had envisioned in the first place. A hundred percent. Yeah, no, that's the best advice. Yeah. So I want to know one thing that you've talked about is mentorship and one huge facet of Create and Cultivate is representation. And I think that both of those things together are absolutely crucial for women to have real career growth. And so how have these two things, mentorship and representation, shaped your own journey?

45:04What advice do you have for women that are trying to kind of see themselves in the world or to seek out the right sort of mentorship on their journey? Yeah. So I invested in a lot of different programs early on, and that was a really new thing for me. Like I remember a time I had been like, Hey, I'm going to hire this coach or join this mastermind for$5 ,000. And he was like,$5 ,000. Like, what are they going to do? And it really changed my life. Like it just being in the right rooms of people that are in the same stage as I am was very, very, very, very pivotal for my career. I would then take that a step further and say, being in the rooms with the people that are 10 steps ahead of me was even more valuable.

45:48And that's really like the thought process around creating the blueprint mastermind or like the masterminds that we have. I felt like it was so important to learn alongside women and people that are going through it. But it was so unbelievably important to learn from people and entrepreneurs that are 10 ,000 steps ahead of me and not in a way that I would compare myself to them, but like to kind of like borrow beliefs that they've had, avoid some of the mistakes that they've done. And like that to me, I still have mentors. I still, you know, go to my own retreats and masterminds and really like connect with women that are either on the same level as me or have done different things and larger things than I have, whether that's exited their business or whatever it is.

46:34It's so important just to know one, that you're not alone to that. You can figure it out through other things. And three, like maybe other people have actually gone through it too and have a faster way of overcoming it. And so that's where like mentorship is so important. And I do think, obviously, I know you believe in this so much, but like, I do think that the more that you invest in yourself, the more invested you are. Right. And so really like invest in yourself, invest in getting in these rooms. That's really important. The only other thing I would say about this note is like, kind of audit the rooms that you're in and see if you've outgrown any of them and like, get the hell out of there if you have and try to get into a different room.

47:15That's like, that's where the gold is, is like, if you can keep growing and keep going into these bigger rooms that you necessarily might not feel like you belong in. Yeah, I love that. I agree to like, when you put skin in the game, it's like those who pay pay attention type vibes. Yep. And I also like, for being where I live, I remember the first mastermind I joined, like people were so bold, and being like, I want to make a million dollars or I want to, you know, donate X amount of money or I want to, you know, like I want to impact millions of people. And like, I was like, I have never heard anyone say these words with their own breath.

47:54Like it was, it was just eye opening of like possibility. And I think oftentimes we don't see the lack in our own circles or in our own areas, or we don't have access to people that are on similar paths. And so I couldn't agree more. I feel like those are huge catalysts. And I don't know about you, Marina, but like, I still talk to people that I met in masterminds years and years and years ago. Like they're still dear friends. They're still people that I partner with that I cheer on. They cheer on. We ask questions to each other. So like it is worth its weight in gold to create those kinds of relationships.

48:31A hundred percent. And even like for, yeah, for me, some of the mentors that I had are now like, you know, speakers at Create and Cultivate and I'm able to connect with them on such a different level. And it's been so, just so amazing to have that network and continue to grow it. So yeah, I love it. Where can everybody find out more about you find out about create and cultivate events? Give us all the places. Yeah. So I am live and breathe on my Instagram. So slide into my DMS. It's Marina a Middleton. I try to share everything possible in there is I'm a bit filtered on social. And then createcultivate.com.

49:07That's really where you can see all of our events and signing them to our newsletter and kind of staying up to date with our community is really where you can find all things. Amazing. Thank you so much. Congrats on your CEO position. I've loved watching the company just flourish under your leadership. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I absolutely love watching women step into their power and watching Marina take over as CEO of a brand that I have known and loved for over a decade leaves me over here clapping my hands and cheering her on. There is just nothing more beautiful than watching women champion and usher other women into positions of power.

49:53And I don't know of a better brand and then create and cultivate that does just that. If you are someone who is seeking to find a community, either micro or macro, I would absolutely recommend checking out their events. Maybe one of these days I will speak at them again when you can actually get me to leave Minnesota. They're working on me right now. And I'm so close to saying yes, because I know firsthand the rooms and the spaces that they curate are absolutely exceptional and just filled with incredible human beings. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. As always, if you know of anyone who would benefit from this show, just click the share button and send them a link to tune in.

50:35This is a great episode to discuss with other people as you build your own community. And of course, until next time, gold diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.

51:14We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers. Thank you.