873: Why Pinterest Is the Smartest Platform for Growing Your Business in 2025

25:01So the strategy to strategy per niche, per business, like every business owner, like Kate earlier said, like, what do you want from Pinterest? What do you want your long-term goal to be? Right, Jenna? So looking at that holistically, it's just lights a fire under me. I just love it. I love it. So I want to know, like, how does Pinterest play into your content creation process? So Kate, when you're creating, are you thinking Pinterest first? Is Pinterest the afterthought? Like, what are you thinking about when you go to create a new piece of content? It's kind of like all in one. So if I look, I'm heavily dependent on long-term search platforms.

25:41So Google, YouTube, Pinterest are my top three. So I look at all of them and kind of look at the data. And I think you call this out a little bit earlier that we are so primed to go with what we feel. And I think platforms that are the drop in the pan, like the Instagram or the TikTok really fuel that, well, I'm going to go with what I think I feel is happening. But with these others, you really have to do a deep dive and say, what are people searching? What are they asking questions about? And so it's a little bit from each one. But if I'm looking at the how to content, I know actually that will work for Google and for YouTube as well, but I want to frame it up in a way that answers the question enough, right?

26:22To where it doesn't overwhelm people too, because I think when people approach Pinterest, they are asking a question or like we say, they have high intent and low intent. So their high intent is they really want an answer to the question. Their low intent is they're open to being inspired. So if you can hit them on that inspiration level where, oh my gosh, I didn't even know this was possible. And I imagine for a lot of people, especially, you know, we're all, you know, business to business, but for business to consumer, there's a lot of room for you to inspire people on Pinterest that gets them curious.

26:55So starting with that mentality first, when you create content, I think is such a great way to leverage your Pinterest strategy where it will grow. Just start with inspiration. And I still think that's where I land, but I probably go a second level into information. how can I arm them with enough that kind of hits bull? Yeah. I love that. There's a stat that like over 90 % of searches on Pinterest are unbranded, which I say is like a huge stat, right? Like here's what people don't even realize is it's like, I, even the other day I was like looking for a very specific, I was like, okay, I want a red dress and I want it to have this type of sleeve, like typed it all in.

27:33I don't care what brand it is. I literally am open. And I think that especially for business to consumer, like B2C businesses, oh my gosh, like this is discoverability at its core because people aren't typing in a specific brand. They're so open. And I have found brands and businesses that I love on Pinterest, even like home decor or different things like that, where I'm like, I don't care where it's coming from. This is kind of the vision. Help me hone this vision and show me what's possible. And so I feel like also that's like a massive stat that should give people confidence of like, you don't have to be the biggest fish in the pond.

28:13In fact, I would argue that it doesn't really matter if you have a small following and a better strategy, you will 1000 % outshine. And so I love too, that it feels like we can air away from like the popularity contest and in essence and be more strategic, which I think most business owners desire is like, I just want to be found by the right people, right? Like I don't need all of these passive eyes on me. I just want to land in the people's places and in their vision of who I'm creating for. And so I also just like love that piece of possibility on there because it kind of feels like the little guy can win.

28:49And I feel like we don't necessarily feel that way on other platforms. So earlier on, kind of piggyback on what Kate had mentioned, like how she uses the platform is earlier on in my business when I didn't have a lot of Pinterest content. I would do a lot of competitor research just to see what they were talking about. And then frame my expertise in those buckets of like, okay, these are the things they're talking about. These days, I know because I've been on YouTube for so long now and I have my blog, I know what my audience wants. I've amassed an audience. I've amassed a membership of people that trust me.

29:26So they bring me the questions that they're asking. And then I'm able to take those and put them in my content to kind of help frame that awareness phase of the customer journey. As I'm looking at like placing content on Pinterest, I already know people are searching for like how to put a Pinterest banner on your profile. I know it's there. Like I've already done that research. So now I'm just framing it from the perspective of my audience of like, what are they asking and going kind of deeper into the messaging. So I feel like that's more advanced strategy for business owners in general. Generally, you're just putting a pin together, like how to make a Pinterest banner.

30:03Yes. But level two of that is using your audience's language and their questions back to them, using that in your messaging. So I already know what keywords people are searching for. Like Kate, like you, Jenna, I rely heavily on search-based platforms, YouTube, Google, Pinterest, and my email list. That's not a search-based platform though. Yeah, I love that. One thing that I think is so great is you get data. And I feel like so many other platforms, we are lacking clear insights of what does this do. Even recently, I was trying to assess what is actually moving the needle on Instagram. And then I had to open up each post and compare and look at it.

30:46And one thing that I think is underestimated about Pinterest is the data and analytics that you can collect, but also the very low lift and low risk of testing out ideas and hypotheses. Like if anyone's listening to this and you're like, okay, I have this really off the wall idea, or I want to try this whole new branding or like just anything you've considered experimenting. Pinterest is the most amazing place you can experiment because one, nobody's seeing every pin in chronological order. They're not clicking to see your grid and they're like, what the heck is going on? Do you get real data and analytics of like, what are people saving?

31:24What are they clicking on? And so you can use it in so many different ways, whether it's testing ideas, testing out ad graphics, testing out titles and subtitles, like there are so many ways. And so I think it kind of goes along the vein of like research of like, okay, how do I actually learn? What is my audience searching for split tests? There is literally no risk in it. And I feel like the information, the insight, along with the feeling that you're not standing on stage naked in front of your followers is like the winning ticket. It's just so beautiful. So Kate, what would you add to that?

32:00What am I missing in this? Well, I think you're right. There is a low lift. And I think it is that first barrier of adding another platform feels so overwhelming for people. But once they get to the other side and you know this, another, you know, this too, once you talk to people who already have the system built, they're like, I would never give this up. I can step away from it for a little bit. I can hire people to do it. I can put it on the back burner for a little bit and it will still bring me traffic. I just think there's so many things, especially the data and the analytics that you can learn.

32:33And also it's a cold traffic source. So people don't know you, you don't know what they're going to interact with. Like you talked about, you're searching for this red dress with a certain type of sleeve. People aren't searching Jenna Kutcher or Heather Ferris or Kate all they're going and looking for, how do I do this on Pinterest? Or how do I grow my email list? And that's what they want. They're not interested in the person. So if we can kind of like extract ourselves from the marketing, I also joke like pinners don't care about you. They don't care about your day. They don't care about what you eight.

33:05They care about the information that you have. And so if you can like step away from yourself for a minute and just give them that, I promise over time it will work. And I think a lot of people don't trust that process. That's why they get into it two to three weeks or even four weeks and they say it isn't working. I'm sure we've all received emails from people who have gone through our content and our courses and our services and they're freaking out by week six, Like it's going nowhere. I'm getting zero, whatever, insert your metric. But then they come back three months later, six months later, and they're like, this is working.

33:40It's working so well. I never realized this could work. And now I'm not spending a ton of time, hours. I mean, you said it earlier, three to four hours on a reel. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. Imagine what you could do with three to four hours with pins on pictures. Totally. You'd have stuff working for you like five years around. just to that about it. It's like nutty. It's nutty. I love that, Kate, because I agree. It's like one of those things where to me, what has gone so freeing in my life is knowing that things can work while I rest. And I know for me, like when I finally became a mom, all of a sudden my time evaporated.

34:21Right. And I'm like, it is not only not feasible, but it isn't even attractive to try to show up online every single day. And I didn't want to. And it was so funny because I remember having this fear of like, I'm in maternity leave. I don't care about the internet right now. I'm just in this little bubble. What is going to happen to my business? And I think that that time away and like taking that step back and getting off of the hamster wheel was what I needed to recognize that nothing happened because these things aren't necessarily tied to these massive results in my business. And so what was so interesting is like, I think a lot of times entrepreneurs spend so much time building out the perfect website or the perfect landing page or like the perfect things.

35:04And they don't realize like if nobody's seeing it and nobody's landing on it, it's not going to do what you want it to do. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales. And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business. You need a website, payment systems, a logo, and a way to reach customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but thankfully that's where today's sponsor Shopify comes in. Shopify powers millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all U.S. e-commerce from big brands to folks just getting started. They offer beautiful ready-to-go website templates so you don't need design skills to look professional.

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36:21Anyone who knows me knows that I'm all about creating spaces where people actually want to be. So when we started hosting on Airbnb, it honestly felt like the most natural thing in the world. And it's turned into one of the best decisions we've ever made. Over the years, we've hosted hundreds of couples in our little spaces. We've had so many repeat guests come back and we've created this incredible community, not just with our guests, but also with the people who help us care for our space. Whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared, hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice.

36:55And just think about it. If you've put a ton of time, effort, and work into your home, someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling. So next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces, you should definitely host on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. So let's talk a little bit about traffic. I think a lot of times the word traffic, people think of traffic jams and like the not so great side of traffic. But I think that a lot of entrepreneurs, what they're really struggling with in terms of making sales or getting results is the lack of eyeballs on their offers.

37:35Heather, can you break down just a really simple thought around like, how does Pinterest bring traffic and like, what can that traffic turn into? Or what does it look like for you? I mean, just a really simplistic view is somebody searches for, you know, Pinterest marketing strategy on Pinterest and my pins come up and they click on them. And then now they're on my website. Right. So, I mean, that's like getting the horse to water, but what traffic means to me is like, because I've worked hard on the messaging and I think this is something that's lacking. we could probably have a whole conversation about this, but people don't know why they're creating what they're creating and why their audience actually needs it, which is where a lot of the conversion link happens.

38:17So if you're creating a blog post on how to get your baby to sleep or whatever, but you don't actually know why people want that and you can't speak to those pain points, your pins probably aren't going to convert as well. They're not going to convert to traffic to your website. And then your website content is not going to convert to email list subscribers or sales of your product. So really understanding why people want what they want and why they need it is going to help you position your pins on Pinterest in a way that gets people to click on them. And that's really ultimately what traffic means to me, Jenna, is like, how do we make that messaging work?

38:52Yeah. What does it look like for you, Kate? Yeah, I would say I'll talk for me, traffic looks like more email conversions. Traffic looks like more clients. We have an agency, so come in the door. But I think it's always good for people to interrogate that to say, are you a volume based business or conversion based business? Because if traffic means I get 100 people, but I convert 10, and that's a win for me, because they can sell something or it's a lead cost. Whereas other people who are ads or affiliate monetized, which is a lot of bloggers and content creators, you're always chasing the more, more and more.

39:29So I think for that second group that's volume based, it's getting to diversification to say, oh, I'm not going to just rely on this one that requires more eyeballs because that is less and less these days. And it's harder to get. I'm going to diversify into a place that is a lead or it is a sale so that I can have both. So I think that's such the tension for people right now is they have to figure out, like, are you volume or are you conversion? And if your conversion, then yes, traffic is really good, but you might not need as much as you think you might just need to be really smart about the way that you position your offer to where people instantly say yes.

40:08Yeah. I love that. And I think too, it's like for us, like we've recognized one, you can literally send traffic anywhere. So I think people like don't realize with pins, like you could send people to your Instagram posts. If you want to grow your Instagram volume, you can send them to your podcast episodes. you can send them to your show notes, you can send them to your YouTube. Like you get to literally like map out the path, which I think is something that is so far removed in social media where it's like we all know saying link in bio is not going to generate anything. We also know that like the many chat keywords are kind of going down the drain.

40:42And so it's like, again, that pure connection from like eyeballs to result, you get to kind of guide that path in what it looks like. And I think that a lot of times people just stop at the traffic piece, right? Like they're like, okay, we can get you more eyeballs, but it's like, okay, how do we actually make those eyeballs turn into something meaningful? Whether it's an email, a client, a subscriber, an email subscriber, like it could turn into so many different things that are actually valuable inside of your business. And so I think it's just interesting. So if somebody is listening, I'm like, if you built it and they haven't come yet, you might not actually be reaching the people you built it for and you probably aren't getting enough of a volume to have the data and the insight to know what you need to fix or work on to make it actually work for you.

41:32And so it's just an interesting thing. It's like the more traffic you can get to something, the more you can see how does that traffic actually perform and what does that traffic lead into? And I think that that's a huge thing that people don't even consider and don't take the time to look into. you. And can I throw something out there too, for people who are listening, who there's so many new people, especially Pinterest talks about Gen Z being the fastest growing demographic on Pinterest. And they have this connection between Pinterest and Instagram. And you brought this up a second ago that when people go to Instagram, they're not going to go link in bio and click all these things in the mini chat word exhaustion piece, right?

42:09So when people see that integration, it will pop up. you'll get a lot of emails. Just think through why you want to connect it because you can connect anything. You can turn anything on, but to be very intentional about why you're doing it. And if you're sending them to Instagram and that's all you have, because we know a lot of business owners start with just that. Why are you sending them there? And what do you hope you get from the Pinterest user? And to remember it's two different types of audiences. You might have apples to oranges, they might not even be looking for the same thing. I mean, I know it takes a little bit of digging for people to look into the data.

42:48And again, people get exhausted by that or burned out. But I just think that's a really good thing to interrogate when you are looking at traffic and you're saying, okay, this is what I want. But is it really giving you what you want? Yes. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I feel like the heart of this conversation is like ROI, right? Like the return on your investment. And I have said for years and years, like time is my currency. And so the ruler I am holding up is like, if I am spending my precious non-renewable time on something, what is the actual return? And if I cannot draw that line in the sand, I have a really hard time committing to things both because I'm ADHD, but second, because I'm like, what is the point?

43:30Like, what is the point? And so what is so interesting to me is like, when I look at ROI, I'm like, okay, I can literally spend an hour a week or outsource one hour a week to give my content that I care about, the creative side of my business that I would never give up, that I'm obsessed with to give that life. And it's funny because I feel like we have Pareto's principle at play so much in business where we are spending 80, 90 % of our time creating something and only 10 or 20 % of our time promoting it. And so we're wondering like, well, why does it feel like I'm always making things? And like, why is this not sustainable?

44:09I was just with a YouTuber the other day and I was like, dang, like YouTube, like if you stop creating, it stops. And he's like, I know I just like, I can't, I can't get off. Like it is what it is. And I was like, that gives me like anxiety in my chest of like feeling like you have to keep showing up. And so what's interesting to me is like the ROI, not only on the time you're spending on Pinterest as a platform, but also the ROI on all the other areas of work that you're doing, whatever platform it's on. It's like you can go into that work knowing like, hey, this is not going to die next week when I hit publish.

44:47It's not going to die a week from now, a month from now. This thing that I'm spending my precious time on is going to live this beautiful, full, rich life. And I can choose how long of a life I want it to live based on the strategy I'm putting behind it. It just makes work a lot more delightful. Wouldn't you say? A hundred percent. It makes it so that you're not like, I'm just thinking about that person who is just grinding away and there's that fear, right? Like that's underneath it of like, it's just going to be gone overnight. And so fear is driving everything that you're doing. And a lot of people we know who just rely on Pinterest, they don't have that same fear.

45:25They don't have that same angst because they know it's like they're putting a log on a fire. It's like, okay, we're just going to build this fire slow and steady. And if I take maternity leave or if I take a vacation, it's not going to fall apart. That's what I want. I don't want this thing where I'm so afraid that if I stop doing something, it's going to crumble and die. Same. I feel the exact same way. One thing I anticipate is somebody listening and they're like, I am late to the Pinterest party. What would you say to convince them that you're right on time, Heather? Honestly, I mean, it's growing.

46:01Kate is really good about publishing this stuff, like especially in her emails. This is where I learn about it. Okay. Anything investor wise or like growth of the company, I get this information from Kate, but like we see the company growing. It's continues to grow. The stocks might be down week to week, but like overall we see growth and that's exciting. And I think we've, last year sometime, we finally surpassed our COVID level growth. You know, we had a huge spike in usership in COVID and then we lost that for a while. And now we've been back on the uphill slide from that point on and that's exciting.

46:38So continuing to see usership go on the platform, even if they're Gen Z and using, you know, weird words, everything is aesthetic these days. You know, that's exciting to me. So Kate, what would you say if somebody feels like they're late to the Pinterest party? I would say that I think number one, they need to, well, I'm going to go back to that evaluation piece every single time, you know, what is it that you want in your business? But I think like Heather said, there's so many things that are happening as far as like investor wise, they're growing. I even think for the three of us, we are part of the educator program and they are putting investments into people to help continue to teach them and help build up their company.

47:24So I would say, number one, look at the health of a company. Is it growing? But number two, look at where you want your company to go in the next couple of years. Do you want to get off that hamster wheel? Do you want to take a step back? And then do you want to make sales of your products? Do you want a new audience? If that's what you want, then you have to take a risk. I mean, it is a risk to choose to put your time, whether it's just that hour a week versus, you know, what you're putting in other platforms. But in Pinterest now, what is it? 15 years old. And it's still, it's just the distinguished platform, right?

47:57Like there's no other platform out there that is like Pinterest. They're all different. So I think that gives it the leg up for sure. I know. I love that too. And I'm like, honestly, if you just did one less Instagram post a week and you put that time into Pinterest, you would get the long-term results over time, right? Like it's just like, I'm not asking you to add more to your plate. I'm asking you to divert a little bit of your time and energy into something. And honestly, I was telling someone the other day, I'm like, it's actually a really easy system and process to learn. Like the strategy is not very complex.

48:34I don't know about you guys, but like I've taken courses and it's like 8 ,000 steps and it takes 80 hours and you're like lost on step three and you're like, there's no way I'm going to be able to complete this. This is not that. And that's where I think two people feel burned of like, I'm going to learn this strategy. And then by next week, it's going to be like obsolete. And one thing that I love about the way that Pinterest is investing in educators like us and like saying, Hey, we back what they teach is, is showing us These are long-term principles. Even my course from seven years ago to the one today, it's changed.

49:10We just re-recorded a new version. But honestly, the principles and the strategy have really not changed all that much. And I don't know about anyone else, but I'm like, give me the tried and true principles that last a long time over the thing that's working this week, but won't be working next. That gives me comfort. And it also makes me feel like I'm not too old to learn something new or that I'm not like, you know, irrelevant or that it's not going to work. Like I'm like, give me those things that are still going to be working a year from now or a few years from now. And I feel like Pinterest has been a very consistent platform in that, that when you learn the strategy, there's not a ton of things changing.

49:52There's little tiny nuances, but it's not like the whole thing is gone in a month. And I think that gives a lot of people who have dealt with algorithm shift after algorithm shift, a little bit of relief. Okay. Final thing is, is if somebody is listening to this and they have never used Pinterest besides spinning recipes that they've never cooked, what is your one recommendation for them to take action today? Heather? It's so funny that you said that Jenna, because I have cooked every single recipe on my Pinterest profile. Okay. You are like the outlier of all outliers. that's how I got started on Pinterest 15 years ago because I didn't know how to cook so if you're starting today really just starting with your profile I think the easiest lift for anyone is especially if you have a website I personally only work with people that have websites or shops like how are people finding the content on your website like what's your menu what's your navigation a lot of people get stuck in like oh what boards do I create and how many should I create and you know how do I what do I name them and all these different things that it's just like just boil it down what's the most simple thing that someone is going to be looking for in order to find your content Jenna on how to start a podcast you're probably going to have a board how to start a podcast podcast equipment podcast marketing tips like that's those three boards right there you could create today if you're a podcaster and really just start to take your pillar content and make pins for them and put them in those boards.

51:24That's it. It does not need to be fancy. Just start there and you can build and you're never married to anything. So if you create boards and you feel like they're just not working for you, you can always change them. Yeah. I love that. I love the not married part. What about you, Kate? I always tell people to go use the app, especially if they've never used it before, because I mean, I have to give myself like pauses from Instagram because I will just spend hours on there. And actually, when I do that, I use Pinterest more and it makes me a better marketer because I understand the user experience.

51:59And I think a lot of people who think about using Pinterest, there's a few blocks for them. One, they do feel overwhelmed because they feel like they need to do all these things or they start to get into that comparison trap, whatever it might be. But I tell people just use it for 10 minutes, pin things, pin whatever it is that stands out to you, put it to a secret board and then go look at it. What is it that caught your eye? What did you see when you searched? Just be curious about it. And then that starts to slowly frame up how you're going to use it. And the second layer is search your name, search your business.

52:34I met with somebody recently who was a YouTuber. She was at a food conference and she does ramen. Like that's her whole YouTube is how to create different recipes with instant ramen. And she's huge over there. And so I said, have you put some of your shorts on Pinterest? And she's like, no, I said, let's look up your name. So she looks up her name and all these recipes pop up and instantly she's like, wait, are people stealing my content? Are they? I'm like, no, this is how it works. Like you want this to happen because people find what you create so valuable that they're already saving it to Pinterest and you don't even have a profile there.

53:12It was like blowing her mind. So I think those two things do that first. It will take you 30 minutes, just play around with it. And then you can begin to frame up how you're going to use it for your business. I think Jenna, that's so powerful. What Kate just said, I came into this world of doing Pinterest marketing for business, being a user every day of Pinterest for six years. So I didn't take a course when I started doing Pinterest for my first blog. I just did what I already knew I was engaging with. Just like Kate said, this is so good. Yeah. I love that. And I think too, if you've only used it for one purpose, like try testing out different things, like type in different things in the search bar and just see different types of content.

53:58Like people will be like, it's not going to work for my business. I'm like, there's a good chance that somebody else is already doing it successfully in your field. Like go type in two to three keywords of how you would describe what you do or what you sell. And like, you're going to see that there are already people on there and that's signed that it's a platform that you will do well on. Like to me, it's not signs of competition. I feel like Pinterest removes a lot of the barriers that we often feel that hold us back from actually doing the work we're meant to do where it doesn't feel like competition because I feel like the clearer you are in your strategy, the easier it is to reach the people you're creating for.

54:33but it's also like a sign of like, this is relevant and this works here. So join the party, jump in the water's warm. Like it's amazing. Where can everybody find each of you and connect with you? Heather, you go first. Just heatherferris.com. Everything's there. Amazing. And Kate? Simplepinmedia.com. Amazing. Thank you guys so much. I am so excited to be on this Pinterest journey with you. I'm so excited that we get our own little group of educators hanging out together. Like it feels really exciting. And I just have not had a lot of people I can nerd out on this topic with. So I just feel like we have a little sisterhood going.

55:11Thank you so much for doing this with me today. Thanks Jenna. This was so fun. I have been teaching Pinterest for years upon years, and I have never gotten to nerd out with other Pinterest experts. It was so fun talking with Heather and Kate. Obviously we know the magic of Pinterest, but sometimes it takes hearing it from someone else to really buy in. So I hope today this conversation just lit a spark in you to get serious about a platform that can give you long-term results. Again, if you want to join me and learn more about Pinterest, save your seat for my free masterclass. I will teach you how to create once and get traffic for months.

55:50I will walk you through how Pinterest works, how you can create content strategically, how you can take one piece of content and turn it into 10 different pins. I will literally visually show you. So if you are someone who has to see it, to believe it, this free masterclass is for you. You can save your seat right now at teachmetopin.com. That's teachmetopin.com. Save your seat and I'll see you there. And if you are listening to this episode and you have someone in the back of your mind that you're like, Hey, I would love for them to get off that content creation hamster wheel, or Hey, they need a more sustainable approach or Hey, I hope their business is still in business in five or even 10 years, then this episode is one that you must send to them.

56:31Be a good friend, help a sister or brother out, help a small entrepreneur get their work seen and lengthen the lifespan of all the beautiful things that they create. And again, I hope to see you in the masterclass that's teachmetopin.com. Until next time, gold diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals. And thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.

57:15And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.