889: How to Take a Career Break Without Losing Your Ambition (or Identity)

26:25And or a very clear, almost networking on your way out. You're having coffees with your mentors and your mentees and anyone in the organization that you feel like you have a relationship with to explain and own with confidence this next choice and say, but keep me in mind for these other opportunities, or I'd love to stay connected because so many women fear the on-ramp back. And that is a great, easy way. I often talk about LinkedIn, like being an easy way to just give people little taps and nudges, right? 15 minutes a week, just to remind them you're there, that you're checking in, that you still have a beat because that's the bridge back if and when you want it.

27:05This is so good. It's so interesting too. I couldn't agree more with everything we're talking about. And it's funny, even I feel like Drew and I consistently renegotiate the roles that we're both playing and we're consistently, I mean, even a couple of days ago, we were sitting down doing numbers together and looking at everything together. Like, as in like, this is where we're at. This is what we are saying we want. This is what it looks like. And I think it's also just so important to like consistently renegotiate with one another where you're at. Cause even for you right now in this moment, your business and what you're doing, the work you're doing requires a different level of attention and energy.

27:47And so it's like there's this constant renegotiation happening regardless of who is the main caregiver or the person at home. And I love talking about doing this in advance and almost running the different plays in advance because so many of us find ourselves postpartum, if that's the scenario we're talking about, with our hormones racing, our identity feeling entirely untethered with question marks floating above our head, sleep deprivation. And so I think it's so smart to run the plays before you get to that point so that you feel confident in the decision that you make and you know what that looks like.

28:26I think that's so smart. And honestly, I think with all the tools we have at our disposal, even like ChatGPT, you could easily pull in your numbers and be like, give me the play-by-play scenarios of this, this, and this. What does this look like? And you would be able to have a more clear vision moving forward because I think there's nothing worse than making a huge change when you don't necessarily have a shared vision. Yes. And I love what you said about coming back to it seasonally because that was the big piece. I don't think either of us felt locked into that. We have an annual, we make it a date day.

29:01We have like a, you know, as far as the romance goes with money. Like it's hard to make it romantic, but you can like it's because it's a big values conversation about, you know, what's our goal for our family this year is a community. And maybe we'll shift our budget from travel to entertaining, right? Because we want more people in our home. I think that, you know, at a grander level, it also lets you let the other partner feel like, oh, this is not, I'm not trapped in this one and done decision. And I think that's important for both. We will do family admin meetings at the beginning of each season now.

29:36Also just to talk about who's doing pickup, like we'll at the beginning of this past fall, like who is doing pickups? How much childcare do we need, you know, for afterschool run around to be able to make sure that we as a household are healthy and whole. And I think that that's another part of that financial footing is this feeling of we both are contributors who both deserve to be healthy and whole. Because then when you get into the conversations about help or support, even from your partner, that feels just a little bit more palatable. Yeah, I love that. There's this deck of cards called the fair play deck.

30:14And we try to do those often of just like, who has what, like, even last night, I was putting my youngest to bed, and she had a diaper pail. And it was like, that I know that is his job. That's not my job. And so when it's full, and we've divided it up to help ease some of the mental load of like who's doing what and where, because I think as parents, it's so easy to do all the things all the time for all the people. And I think that's where it can get challenging and it can get really tricky as to like, who's doing what. One of the things that I am thinking about now is if somebody is listening and they're coming out of their power pause, what are some of the first steps that they should be taking?

30:55Like I'm imagining, even if Drew was thinking about getting back into the workforce. We're looking at six months from now, both of our kids will be in school. What would some of those first steps be to start dipping your toe back in and kind of figuring out what your next steps are? Yeah. So one step you can start as soon as you actually step into your pause. So you're not even ready for preparing to return, but you're just allowing yourself the permission to know that this stage of life is not just about raising your kids. It's about raising yourself too. Because I think one of the traps that we fall into around stay at home parenthood is that you've been on this very like linear career.

31:37Everyone's been saying, this is success. You get a promotion, you get a salary bump, and then you step into day to day with kids. And you're like, I guess my success is my kids behavior or like how clean that houses. And we all know that's just like an epic disaster. And that happened to me a little bit, you know, until my like first child pushed another child and I was like, Oh man, I need to go back for the drying board here. No, this is, this is not good. And you know, I think it was a good wake up of like, wait a second. When I look back on this time, what will success be? And it can't just be my kids and it can't be my marriage and it can't be, I mean, maybe it can be, but it can't just be those things to make myself feel like I was moving forward.

32:20And I think oftentimes you hear people say like, I feel stuck. And I think that stuckness comes from, I don't know where I'm going. And it's not to say you need to know where you're going right away. But if you do one exercise from this book, it's right in great detail. Where you want to be in five years? Who do you want to be spending time with? How do you want to feel in your body? How do you want to feel in your mind? What do you want the energy in your home to be like? Your relationships with your friends, your partner, all of this isn't going to happen tomorrow. But what it does is it starts to reveal to you what are your most authentic goals, right?

32:57What is your real version of success? And it starts to say, okay, well, I'll give you my example from back then. It was, oh, wow, I'm like much more calm in that version. I guess I finally have room to work on my reactivity, which I'd been like slipping under the rug for a long time from a, and I think about goals in three ways, personal, professional, and family. So from personal perspective, it was, it was really that growth around reactivity from a professional perspective. I'd always wanted to write. I'd never been able to get to in my work prior. I was too pigeonholed. So I started a free square space on work and family, which were the seeds, obviously the work I'm doing now.

33:37And on a family perspective, I wanted a silly household. That's what I imagined in that. And I thought, well, what can I do now with kids so young? And it was a dance party every single Monday. And those are three very realistic, very attainable for that chapter of my life, but measurable things that when I looked back after six months, I would say, I moved myself forward. It was like, I'll listen to a podcast every week about women in anger. I will post those three times a week. And so you look back and they're just these little incremental things that moved you forward. But it also starts pointing you in a direction that when and if you are ready to return, you have a foundation of pieces, sub bullets to your career story, right?

34:22Clues of what has lit you up. What are you interested in? What do you want to dig deeper on, right? Because you're ideally reevaluating those goals every six months. So as you've been writing, you might say, Oh, I want to write more about this topic. I want to meet more people. I want to go to this conference. And you might have, as your kids get older, started to build up and go in that direction. And the other exercise, I know I said I was only going to do one, but if there was one other thing, it was open an iPhone notes or your Google doc, like have Drew just start noticing if he hasn't been doing this already, like content that he's lingering on a little bit, like a podcast that sparked his interest besides yours is the time he volunteered in the school.

35:01And like, he felt really proud of himself or a time he advised you. And he felt really, you took the advice and it made a difference. All those little things seem so arbitrary, but what they do is they start to form a story about what do I want next and how can I reshape these seemingly non-traditional experiences that you do gain. Volunteering, advising a partner or a friend, trying on creative projects, they do start to form a really interesting story for your career portfolio. I love this. When we were young, we dreamed of castles and fairy tales. And as we grow up, those dreams might shift into building something real, like starting a business.

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36:43Anyone who knows me knows that I'm all about creating spaces where people actually want to be. So when we started hosting on Airbnb, it honestly felt like the most natural thing in the world. And it's turned into one of the best decisions we've ever made. Over the years, we've hosted hundreds of couples in our little spaces. We've had so many repeat guests come back and we've created this incredible community, not just with our guests, but also with the people who help us care for our space. Whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared, hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice.

37:17And just think about it. If you've put a ton of time, effort, and work into your home, someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling. So next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces, you should definitely host on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. As you were talking, one thing that I think is so interesting is I feel like we are like obsessed with going back, like going back to work and as you're talking, I'm like, we're not going back anywhere. We're going forward.

37:51And like, you will come out of this an entirely new person if you allow it to change you. Right? Like I think about my journey as a mom and like, it has softened me so much. It has unlocked creativity in new ways. It has redefined success in a million ways. And so I think too, if somebody is listening and you feel like I need to go back. It's like, no, no, no. Take all of this forward. It is like the juiciest bits of life that will move you forward in such a new way. And I feel like for most of us, if we are being totally honest, going back back was not in alignment with what we truly want. When I look at my first career, I'm like, that was not true success.

38:36I didn't feel successful. I felt burnt out. And it's interesting how we often, our mind is like, well, we're going to go back. We're going to go back. It's like, no, no, no. We like focus on like ushering ourselves forward. Like just as you're talking and like having that notes of like things that light you up or things that are exciting to you or things you're learning or things you're telling other people and it's impacting, like that's the stuff we want to take forward. And that's the most valuable stuff. And that's also life. Like that is like the wholeness of life, right? Yes. And I'm so glad you also, you know, obviously when you talk about it in this way, right?

39:12And these sound bites about how we might move ourselves in return to paid work. It sounds so fast, but there's a gift when you're making room for kids that you make room, you've set aside, you've already checked your ego at the door. You've already paused your paid work. So there's this incredible moment of, well, if I'm free in this way, and of course you still have responsibilities, how may I just lean into a little bit more ease, a little bit more support, and really let myself stay open. And I think this is so important for your audience, especially because I shared this with you before, but one of the ways I grew, one of the little things I did for myself professionally was listen to a business podcast every single week and yours was mine.

39:59And it gave me this sense of, I can do this in a small way. I can plant seeds and this will grow. And so many of the women who have come on the tour have said like, well, how do I do that? And I will say this took nine years. It was not overnight. There were so many years of looking and planting seeds for this and exploring and iterating and thinking like, oh, I really want this to be big. I know it. Well, I didn't want it to be. I wanted it to be a big conversation. I wanted it to be a big change and I knew it was important. And yet I still wanted to be at home with my kids. Like I still, and there was an irony about creating the first platform about women on career pause as well on a career pause.

40:40And so you could only do as much as you were willing to do. And I think owning that, allowing myself to stay open, stay trusting that these little ways could move me forward, I think is really, really special. And I think a lot of women sometimes, especially those who paused right after having a baby will say like, okay, my last kid is in kindergarten. It's time for me to get back. And if you have the ability, if you have the privilege to be able to just take a beat, you've been raising kids. That has been immense work. That is demanding that you've probably grown in so many ways you haven't had a chance to reflect on.

41:18It's okay to give yourself a little bit of time to enjoy it, enjoy the space that you've earned and give yourself time to then reflect, explore and think. And so I want to offer that to Drew too, in case that's helpful. I know. I know. It's so interesting. I feel like this is just opening my brain in so many different ways and just reflecting like it goes by so fast and it's so annoying when people would say that. I remember, I mean, a million times being out and about with a little baby and it's like, you see that look, everybody knows the look, right? I know the look. I give that look a lot now.

41:52Yes. And just the other day I did it to somebody else. They had this little baby and I was like, I know people tell you this and I know it is so annoying, but it goes by so fast. It makes me want to cry. It's just, it's a blink. It's just a blink. And it's like, I don't know. I feel like moms, gosh, here we are. But it's like we always want what we can't have, right? And that's the issue. And it's like, this is such a window of time. And it's like, if you can be even just a little bit more present to it, if you can be awake to it, you will never regret it. And somebody texted me yesterday and said, like, you are so conscious of the gift of the kids.

42:37And he's like, I see so many people that are like 60 that just say, like, I missed it. And I think that our generation of women are committed to trying to not miss it. But I think it also just with all the demands, it's like, holy cow. But it is such a little window of time, isn't it? It's so fast. So, you know, I have a nine and six year old now and I can tell you they need you in a different way. Yes. And I want to be there. It's interesting because I hear a lot of women pausing actually, again, when their kids are older and in their teens and in their college years because there's something else.

43:13I actually, there's a woman at a talk recently who said, my daughter's 18. I just left a long career at Chanel because I don't want to lose this last year. Like I just want to be. and I just like I looked at her and I thought I know can you imagine yeah but I hear other women say you know I just want to be there at pickup because I know when they're 13 because I know that that's like a sacred hour that they'll talk to me when they're in the car behind me and I and I think it's different for different people what part of their day they want to connect to their child and presence isn't always measured in hours sometimes it's pressured in the way in which we show up for our kids.

43:50And I've been thinking a lot about how not just do I have not wanted to miss it, but actually I don't want to look back and think that when I was there, I wasn't there. Or like that, that is the big, that when I was there, they got the, I've been thinking about this in the context of health because I find myself, I was finding myself during the book, you know, for the winter really just, I'd be there. I would like move my schedule so that I was there at five, you know, I'm still, and yet I was so tired. My head was always hurting. I was carrying extra weight. The whole thing just fell off. And so I was thinking more about that than them.

44:27And I think when you think about it in that presence in that way of how will they remember me? Not just how will I remember these years, but how will they remember me? I think that that really puts a filter on how we spend our energy, how we prioritize, how we, you know, the things like health and, and support, it becomes a different sort of North star in this journey. Oh, I couldn't agree more. It's, it was interesting. I was talking to somebody the other day and let's talk about like help a little bit, because I think it's something that feels very elusive and secretive can feel shameful. I think that we follow all these people on the internet.

45:08We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes or what that even looks like. And I was talking to someone the other day because we recently hired somebody to come over and help us food prep each week because it was a root of contention in our house of what are we eating for dinner? And we want to eat well. And neither of us have the bandwidth or the desire to spend hours each Sunday food prepping. And when I was looking at it from a business standpoint, I was like, okay, I am outsourcing this piece that takes up so much mental load. and it allows me extra time with my kids. But there was still something that felt so entirely uncomfortable about it, right?

45:48Where it was like, it has become so common for us to outsource different things, whether it's Instacart or DoorDash or different things. And yet there's still some sort of judgment, either internally or externally on getting help. Let's talk about help. What are your opinions on it? Oh God, it's such a rich topic. And I think it's both internal and external. I think we, you know, sadly one in three at home parents in this country have not had any help, including family assistance, which means they are parenting 24 seven without breaks. No one should have to do that, right? No one should have to work around the clock.

46:27And we wouldn't expect that if someone working for pay and we've so grossly undervalued care. We've made it seem so easy and simple and like diapers and laundry. And part of that is all the memes and the, you know, we, we dumb it down. And the real work of parenthood is thinking about how to show up in play with your child, right? How to, you know, observing them and noticing things that are different and then staying up at night and Googling, that's what I'm Googling, right? Googling that and thinking about how can I support that or scaffold that. and there's so much and by the way those are with pretty typical children and when you're looking at kids with any sort of diagnoses if i was sitting on the phone with this woman from saint louis whose child has diabetes and she is writing protocols for the nurse as to you know how to be able to administer medication and she has to update it weekly right like that is the awe-inspiring breathtaking work of parenthood that we have not shined a light on and when we don't shine a light on that, then we think, well, why do you need help?

47:30Why do you need support? It's so simple. And yet that work needs space, that work needs support, that work needs someone to be healthy and whole to be able to do it ideally. And so I think that's part of it. I think we've also weaponized privilege in this country, right? Like, I think we're scared to admit when we have a little bit more and we could like have a little bit more ease. We somehow think we have to struggle through motherhood to earn our stripes. And no one gives you any badge at the end of the day. Like you are not, that is not sadly really rewarded, but we think that's the memo we get, that the more we struggle, the better job we're doing.

48:11And a lot of that is rewriting those beliefs, right? Like a luxury, it's like such a heavy word. And by the way, stay at home parenthood has been deemed a luxury for so long. And when we deem something a luxury, when we think, oh, she's like sitting around eating bonbons and her like partner must make a lot of money. When by the way, one in three women who are pausing their careers right now are pausing because of the cost of childcare, right? So when we sort of put this all together and say, wow, parentality is like really complicated work that deserves fullness and health and like space and support.

48:41Then like someone doing food prep so you can concentrate on the connection because your child deserves that. and we're operating in a different time. And by the way, there's nothing luxurious about the fullness of parenthood in doing that work. It's a privilege to get to choose to do it. And we still need breaks and support to show up for them the way that we want to. Then we can sort of expand the conversation. But because there's so much shame associated with it for all those reasons, then we all hide it, right? So like no one's showing their like a nanny or their housekeeper or their babysitter or their audience.

49:17I try to, but like on Instagram, like you're not talking about that. Thank you for sharing yours. But for the most part, I remember Lauren Smith Brody writing an article in Harper's Bazaar called The Invisible Nannies of Instagram. And like the reality is you're putting it all together. You're creating a portrait of like this person's, you know, doing crafts. This person has a great house. This person's running a kick-ass business. But like the one part of this portrait and like ideal composite that is also a fiction that we've created is the like support and childcare or whatever care is happening behind the scenes.

49:51And so I think it's taking a lot of bravery for women to get honest. I think a lot of the future of women depends on, sadly, we have to do this for ourselves, but this brain trust that we can create between us where we can say, this is how I figured out my work situation. And this is how I figured out my help situation. And this is how it's all actually working in case that inspires you to. And we as consumers of that brain trust have to work on our own judgment. Often judgment comes from envy, right? And, you know, often I profile women every week who live in the gray area, what I call the vast in between of the black and white ideas of stay at home and working.

50:32And I had someone recently being very candid about the help she has. And the inbound messages were so disheartening, right? Like they weren't inspired. They were confused because we haven't had that vocabulary. We haven't seen those options. And that's not available to everyone, but it does start wheels turning about, well, what parts of my day could I let go of? And may I either drop and say, this isn't important. Like I'm not going to get a food prep, but maybe I like do frozen meals instead. Right. Or, and so I think that openness is how we move ourselves forward, but it does take a lot of rewriting.

51:09Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. Speaking of writing, tell everybody where they can get your book, where they can connect with you, where they can read your words. Give me all the places where they can get more of you. Well, you can follow me at mother untitled on Instagram for daily doses of narrative change. You can come to mother untitled.com. We have a ton of free resources from our library to our experts Rolodex, our FlexJobs board, to our toolkit on embracing the pause, returning to work, finances, everything in between. And you can buy the book wherever books are sold or you love to get books. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

51:51This conversation needs to be extended because we could keep going and going and going. So thank you for being here today. We really could. It is such an honor to join you. Thank you. I totally didn't expect to break down like that in this episode, but I'm kind of glad I did. I can't talk about my kids without crying. It was so funny. I was out to lunch yesterday with my mom and I was sharing like a funny moment with my kids and I just get tears in my eyes. I just love them so much. And I think it's just hitting me how fast it all goes. Oh my gosh. So I just love this conversation because I think regardless of what path you choose, I think the world has been telling us like you have to choose your lane and stay in it.

52:35And I feel like Naya is opening this conversation to be so much more rich and just filled with the honest options that might be out there. And I also want to say, I recognize that especially in today's economy, this is not always feasible and possible for many people. Many people do not have the option to stay at home and be a caregiver. And so I think that when we can fully just lay it out there and share what the realities look like based on our own experiences, we unlock the ability for other people to show up and do the same. The more stories we hear, the more that we see that our story is ours and can also be shared.

53:15And so I just love this conversation. The time went by so quickly. I feel like we could absolutely do a part two on this and really just talk about what it can look like as your identity shifts, as your career changes, and as you navigate just the evolution of being alive. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope you loved it as much as I did. If you have a minute to leave a review or if you know somebody who is facing a decision like this or in kind of that change of identity stage of their life, will you send this episode to them? Have a little listening party, have a little podcast club where you can talk about it.

53:52I would love for you to forward this off to somebody who could really benefit from this conversation. And of course, until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.

54:29We'll see you next time, gold diggers.