895: “Instagram Isn’t Dead… It’s The BEST Place for Small Business Owners To Be” with Brock Johnson

24:44I mean, I would argue that no percentage of your followers are seeing every single post. And so it's like, how can our content standalone be powerful, get the result that we're aiming for with that piece of content? And how can we assume that this is the first time they've heard of us, of what we're trying to talk about, of the offer of everything. And that has been such a hard thing for my brain that loves to think sequentially is like stand alone, stand alone. And I think that is going to be a huge piece of this new algorithm, especially if our content is getting in front of more non-followers.

25:20Yep, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Okay. So one thing that I'm so curious about is you just got to interview Adam Aseri. So tell us who he is and why that was important. But I want to know, what was your biggest takeaway of what Instagram is focusing on in 2025 that can kind of give us the behind the scenes peek of like how we need to pivot what we're doing? Yeah. So he is the head of Instagram. You and I were talking off air and we're like, he's like a celebrity in our field. But if you're outside of that field, like Adam Moseri, that name means nothing to you, right? Everyone knows Mark Zuckerberg.

25:56No one knows his counterpart, Adam Moseri. So I got to interview him, got to sit down and have a chat with him, which was really cool. Really, really an awesome experience. And he shared his three biggest priorities for Instagram in 2025, specifically as it relates to us, small business owners and content creators and entrepreneurs. One of them was helping the small creator break out, which I thought was really interesting. They really want to push and help these people who have smaller accounts and however you define smaller accounts, I think it's a sliding scale. I don't I think it's like a hard cutoff that once you reach 10K, Instagram doesn't care about you anymore.

26:35But basically the smaller your account is, the more they're trying to push you out to more people. And that kind of goes back to our conversation about more non-follower reach. That's why we're seeing that. For smaller accounts, woohoo, you're reaching more non-follower, more potential growth. For larger accounts like yours and mine, Jenna, that looks like a roller coaster of, hey, this reel was pushed out to a bunch of non-followerers and they weren't interested. And so it didn't do very well, but I digress. The second thing they said is a big priority for them is valuing original content, which is really something that they've been talking about since 2024.

27:09They realized that there's too many of these, what they call aggregator accounts. And the easiest example of this is like SportsCenter or ESPN. Like that is literally an aggregator account. All of their clips are not footage that they have filmed. It is viral sports clips, sometimes from professional sports, but oftentimes nowadays, you're seeing like a high school basketball game winning shot. You're seeing a youth football game where the kids are, you know, three inches tall and they're running around and it's like hilarious video. They're bobbleheads. That's the sort of aggregator account that Instagram is not necessarily trying to punish, but they're trying to reward the mom who took the video of the high school basketball game winning shot.

27:51They're trying to reward the original creator. So I do think that is awesome. And I will say this is not applied to reposting your own stuff because you're still the original creator. So you can repost your own stuff and I'm sure we'll talk more about that later. So that's the second priority. And then the third thing that they really want to prioritize, and this again, goes back to the idea of the tick-tockification of Instagram is they want trends to happen faster. And it was really enlightening to hear him say this because something I've been saying for years is spot trends on tick-tock. And then if you do them on Instagram, you'll be doing it two weeks before it actually pops off on Instagram.

28:28And for so long, it was like the trends happen on TikTok and then eventually they make their way to Instagram. That was even a joke on TikTok. They would be like, I can't wait for Instagram to get this trend in three months. And then they'd be like, I can't wait for YouTube shorts to get this trend in three years. But he said they want trends to happen faster on Instagram. And I think we've already seen that. Did you see Jenna, have you, have you seen his name is Ashton? Yes. The morning routine, dipping his face in the bowl. Yeah. Saratoga water. Everyone's seen it. He went from like a million to, he's now at like 12 million followers.

28:59He dumps his face in the Saratoga water. He's doing pushups on his balcony at three in the morning. He went viral for his crazy morning routine. That was a trend that originated on Instagram. That was a meme. That was a thing that is purely an Instagram thing. And so I think we're already starting to see that trends are happening faster on Instagram and things are becoming Instagram trends, not just Instagram trends that were stolen from TikTok. I think that's so fascinating. Also fascinating, I don't have or use TikTok, which is funny. I mean, I think I have an account, but I don't log into it.

29:35I've never gotten into it. And so I think what's been so interesting to me is even just noticing when I'm scrolling, I am seeing so much content from people that I don't follow. And it's been really interesting as both a creator and a consumer to kind of figure out, well, what does this mean for us? Because I think for so long, it was like you build your following follower by follower. You speak to them like they're family. They know your dog's name. They know what the inside of your house looks like, all these different things. And so it's been this huge shift of like not only consuming content from all different types of creators, but also really thinking about, okay, from a strategy standpoint, how does this shift things?

30:20One thing I'm curious about Brock is how are you utilizing the different media types on Instagram? So let's start with Instagram stories. Are those dead? Is it a growth strategy? How do we leverage our stories? Yeah. Love that we're talking about this. Stories will not help you grow your following. You could post a million stories a day. They could be the best stories you've ever made. They're not going to help you grow. And that's just simply because of the way they're made. They're made to only reach your existing followers. Yes, technically someone can discover your account. They can click on your profile and then watch your stories before following you, but they didn't discover you through your stories.

31:00So stories do not help you grow. With that being said, stories have a purpose and they have a huge purpose. And I believe that they really have two main purposes and two main different ways that you can use them. The first one is to build trust. Trust is the epitome of growing a brand online in 2025. Trust is key. It's the secret sauce because we've all gone through the last few years where we're all like, who can I trust? Where can I get my media? Where can I get my news? Where can I get my info, who can I trust and believe in now, especially with AI, the more real you can be documentation over curation, posting multiple times a day on your Instagram story, and really just focus on taking people into your daily life.

31:44I'm like, what's going on the highs and the lows that will help you build maximum trust through your Instagram stories. Now building maximum trust is not the same strategy. It's not the same way that you're going to get the most possible views. So the really cool thing about stories is it resets every 24 hours because your stories expire. So you don't have to like choose one strategy and stick with it for seven months and then, you know, decide to change. No, you can do something different on Tuesday versus Wednesday. So with all of that being said, posting multiple stories every single day, documenting your life, maximum trust.

32:18When you're ready to get your most viewed story ever, do the following strategy. It's what I call the STD strategy. And I call it that so that no one will ever forget the STD strategy. So here's how you post an STD on your stories and thus get the most possible views. And let me even say before I tell you what the STD stands for, when would you want to get most possible views? Well, when you are promoting something, when you have a new podcast episode, when you have a launch or a sale or a discount code, when you're doing a brand deal, a collaboration, a sponsored post, and you want to make sure that the brand has a great perception of you.

32:55And they're like, wow, this creator crushed it for me. So here's what an STD story looks like. And here's what STD stands for. The S stands for single. So just one single story frame. So let all of your previous stories expire. Don't post any more future stories for the next 24 hours. 24 hours, you just have one singular frame on your stories. That's the S. The T stands for text heavy. So it's not a video story. It's not a talking head story. It is a photograph or even just like a graphic that you can make in Canva or even make right there on Instagram stories. And it's text heavy. So I'm talking multiple sentences, if not multiple paragraphs of text.

33:39Recently, not to go too high level for a second, but I have noticed there was a change where what used to work really well was just like a solid color background with lots of text. that was the kind of text every story that worked. Now I've noticed that better if there's a person in it. So if my face is in the corner and I'm kind of like YouTube thumbnail style, making a dramatic face that mirrors the vibe or the energy of the story, smiling or looking shocked or looking angry, whatever. So that's a little distinction I've noticed recently. But the bottom line, text every story, right? Lots of text, multiple sentences, if not paragraphs.

34:14And then the D is the most important part of the STD. It's the most important part to make this whole thing work. And it's DM automation, direct message automation. That's the thing. I know you do it, Jenna. I know you're a fan of it. It's the thing where you tell people reply with this keyword, reply with this phrase, and I will send you this thing. So you could post one and you could say, reply with the word pod, and I will send you the link to my new podcast episode with Brock Johnson. You can do something like that. And when people start replying, that is what really drives your views up to another level because Instagram and their CEO is, he said this many times, the DMS are everything.

34:53The DMS are what they're obsessed with that Instagram. And they really believe that the DMS on Instagram are what separate Instagram from any other platform. And I would agree with them. But so when you're getting all these messages and when you're getting these DMS, the algorithm's like, Oh my God, this is the best story ever. Let's push it out to more people. and that's how I can't quite guarantee it, but this is about as close to a guarantee as I will give you. It could be, it might be, it probably will be your most viewed story ever. Okay, I love this and I love DM automation. And I also just wanna say for anyone afraid of it, I set up my own DM automation the other day.

35:32It is so easy. It is so easy. We use, both Brock and I use ManyChat, which is an approved partner of Instagram, but literally anyone can do it. And I had been like afraid to do it. And I was like, okay, literally it is so quick and easy. So if you are somebody who, and I think this is a good segue into the next part is just talking about getting actual results from Instagram, because when people are so hyper-focused on followers and views, I think oftentimes they're missing where the actual monetary value comes in, which is how we kicked this conversation off is like, what are the results? And if you are somebody who has a dream to get real results from Instagram, whether it's email subscribers, podcast listeners, leads, sales, purchasers, like anything like that, then having something like DM automation that can help deliver that experience instantaneously without you manually having to do that, it's going to be the fastest way.

36:26And it's also going to be a better experience. So let's talk about like, what is the best way to get actual results on Instagram in 2025 where we kind of let the vanity metrics go because we now know they're fluctuating. They're more unpredictable than they've ever been. Is it still possible to get real results from Instagram? Yes, it is. And I think it's actually more possible now than ever before because of these crazy fluctuating views. It's tougher to go viral now than ever before. But the good thing is virality is never what I'm after. I don't think virality should ever be your goal unless, I don't know, unless you want to become some viral clickbait influencer, but I know that's not my audience.

37:06I know that's not your audience. You're listening to this podcast because you want results. And the reason you're not getting results is not necessarily because there's something wrong with you or what you're selling or anything like that. It's probably just in the strategy. So going back to this conversation of DM automation, here's what most people do. They make their promotional posts, their sales posts, whatever they're, you know, they have a book a consultation for your new lashes or they're selling some digital product. And then at the end of the post, they say, click the link in my bio.

37:38Or even worse, they don't put it in the post. They just like tuck it away down in their caption and they say, click the link in my bio. What are you implying? You're not explicitly saying this, but you are implying to your followers that they should not engage with your post. You're telling them, go do something else. Do not engage with this post. So what's going to happen? They're not going to engage, which means the algorithm is going to be like, Oh God, this post sucks. Like let's not show it to anybody because no one is engaging. Everyone who's seeing it is either scrolling or they're clicking away and going somewhere else.

38:09So that's where Jenna and I would recommend using something like DM automation. Many chat is the one we use. There's like over a million people who use many chats. So it's totally safe. And I'm glad you said it's so easy to set up because it, yes, I am a techie person. What I've tried to tell people is if you know how to like drag around a folder on your desktop, like if you can point and click, that's all you need to do because they've set it up so that you literally point, click, set up the trigger. So the word that people are going to say, and then you drag and click what is going to be the response.

38:44And that's it. You are done. It's that easy. So then what you can do is instead of saying, click the link in my bio, you can say, comment the word pod, and I will send you the link to our new podcast episode. Then you're actively telling people to comment and everyone who does comment, they get the link served up to them on a silver platter, which is better for them. They don't have to go hunting for it in your link in bio and remember a discount code. They can just get it served up to them right in the DMs, which as we already talked about, Instagram's a big fan of. And so you're getting engagement.

39:15They're getting the links. It's a win-win. My posts that have DM automation significantly outperform even my average posts. And when you compare my posts with DM automation compared to when I used to say, click the link in my bio, it is night and day. It's night and day. You know, I only share stuff I'm genuinely obsessed with. And so when I kept seeing Bolin brand sheets all over Instagram, I was like, okay, are these actually worth the hype? Drew and I have been using their sheets and duvets for over a year now and honestly our bedroom feels like a completely different space. The moment you touch these sheets you'll get it they're incredibly soft to start but they literally get softer every time you wash them.

39:58They're made from 100 % organic cotton so they're super durable and they're breathable which is perfect for piling on cozy layers without turning into a furnace at 2am. This is hands down the best bedding I've slept on and I'm so genuinely excited for you to try it. Start building your sanctuary of comfort this fall with Bowl & Branch. For a limited time, get 20 % off your first set of sheets plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com slash golddigger. That's bowlandbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash golddigger to save 20 % and unlock free shipping. Exclusions apply. anyone who knows me knows that I'm all about creating spaces where people actually want to be so when we started hosting on Airbnb it honestly felt like the most natural thing in the world and it's turned into one of the best decisions we've ever made over the years we've hosted hundreds of couples in our little spaces we've had so many repeat guests come back and we've created this incredible community not just with our guests but also with the people who help us care for our space.

41:00Whether you've bought properties as an investment or have unused rooms waiting to be shared, hosting on Airbnb is a practical and profitable choice. And just think about it. If you've put a ton of time, effort, and work into your home, someone out there probably would love to experience it while they're traveling. So next time you're planning a trip or want to make some extra income from your spaces, you should definitely host on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. I love this so much because I feel like where we get it wrong is when we get so fixated on the vanity metrics and we kind of forget like what is the actual goal here?

41:42And I think that there is such a disconnect where people are so close to throwing in the towel because all they've been focused on is the vanity metrics. And I often tell people, I'm like, the posts that look like they're quote, performing the worst quote unquote, maybe it's the worst views or something. Those ones are the ones generating the best results for me oftentimes. And where it's connection and communication or ending up in the DMS where people can't visibly maybe see what's actually happening, but there's so many ways that that success is fueled and the real ROI is there. I have a question for you on this.

42:18So how, if you were going to do certain, like a posting cadence, how often would you have call to actions in your posts that were like that using many chats, say, for example, and how often would you do posts that don't have that call to action? This is an interesting question and one that I've been struggling to find the right amount for myself. I probably have DM automation in close to 50 % of my posts, maybe even more. But what I do is I vary the, you could call it the aggressiveness of that DM automation. So sometimes it's in the real, like I'm saying to the camera, comment the word blank and I'll send you blank.

42:59And sometimes you wouldn't even see it. It's not in the real. It's not in the first couple of paragraphs of the caption. It's just kind of tucked away at the bottom. Like, by the way, if you want to listen to the full interview, comment the word pod. And so it's varying levels of aggression, but either way it's there. But for me, it's, it's around 50 % right now. Natasha Willis is, she runs the school of bots and she's kind of like an expert when it comes to DM automation. What she says is that like one out of every three or roughly 30 % of your posts is kind of a sweet spot for how much you should have it.

43:33But I also think it's going to vary depending on what your offer is and you know, what season you're in, if you're in a season of, hey, we're in a launch, we got to get as many customers or leads as possible versus, hey, we're not really promoting anything actively right now. We're just coming off of a launch. And so we kind of want to give our followers a breather. Yeah, I love that. Natasha has been on the show twice. So we'll link up her episodes because she's a genius when it comes to this automation stuff. One thing I'm curious about is what would you say to someone who has, quote, tried everything on Instagram and they still aren't feeling successful on the platform?

44:09The person who has tried everything on Instagram is not having success is the person who's going to the gym and doing one set on every single machine and wondering why they don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. When you divide your efforts and you try out every single one of these little different things and you're not doing them for very long, like you're not sticking with, with just the quad extension machine every day for six months, you're just kind of one rep over on quad extension, one rep over here on the booty blaster, one rep over here on bicep curls. Of course, you're not going to see results.

44:44So what I often find is that people are busy chasing trends and the latest hack that some social media guru came up with, and they're not staying steady with what is working. And they're not staying steady with those evergreen strategies like niching down and hyper consistency and improving your quality, the basics, like we talked about earlier. It truly is the basics, the not so sexy things that generate the sexiest results. But the reality is, is it takes a long time. It's not overnight. It's not going to be instantaneous. The other thing that I will say is if you, and I hear this all the time, Brock, I've been posting the exact same style of content.

45:23My quality has not changed in the last three years, but I'm not getting the views I used to. And I will say, that's exactly the problem. You haven't changed. You haven't kept up. I think as entrepreneurs, the evergreen strategies, those are the things that we need to stick to. The things that are proven to work, that's what we stick to. But we need to be adaptable in our presentation, in our style, in the way we present things, in the way that we show up online. Because trends do change. User habits do change. I remember 2021 Instagram Reels, it was all about lip syncs. Like back in the day, every, every reel was like a lip sync of a trending audio.

46:02Yes. Yeah. And then nowadays different things are more popular. Maybe B-roll was really popular in 2024. Maybe now you're seeing more talking head videos with like more advanced editing in the video game world. They call it the meta. It's basically like, it's not the written rules. It's the unwritten rules. And these are what's always changing. These are the that are always adapting. And as the audience, as the average person stops liking one thing and starts preferring one other thing, that's why it feels like the algorithm is always changing. It's constantly having minor tweaks, but what we're really feeling over time is the change in user habits and preferences and behaviors.

46:41I think this is such a good point. And I did something yesterday that I've literally never done in my career. And I've just realized like you can complain about the algorithm or you can try different things. And I think one thing that can be so frustrating is people are not willing to experiment. Like they look at everything so black and white as like a success and a failure. And you said this earlier, like everything is a data point. Like it, it just gives you information to move you forward. And so yesterday I hired a local video team to come over as two people and we knocked out, I think it was 20 videos in 30 minutes plus like 15 B roll shots.

47:17And one thing that I realized in the process is like, one, I was investing in this, so I was going to make it worth every penny. But two, I had to really sit down and get really clear. What are the videos I want to shoot? What do I want to try? How do I need to prepare for this? And it held me accountable to one, trying something totally different just to see how it works, how it feels and what the results are. But two, preparing the content in a different way and looking at it from a totally different standpoint. And I think that that is honestly required in 2025 is like, we have to get curious again.

47:51And if we want different results, we have to be willing to try different things. I don't know if those videos are going to hit or if they're going to fall flat. But if I don't try, I literally have no right to complain that Instagram is not working for me. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think another element of what you just described, which is such a good idea and one that I am 100 % it's dealing 100 % going to do is it held you accountable. Right. And so even if someone's listening and they don't have the resources to hire a multi-person team to come over and shoot content, what if you just had like had your bestie hold you accountable?

48:25What if you had your business partner hold you accountable? What if you selected like one of your customers and you're like, Hey, this is going to be weird, but I'm going to ask you to be my accountability partner and found someone like that. I think that that is such a growth hack because we're always going to cheat ourselves. You know, we're always like, I can't tell you how many times I've put on my calendar. Like I got to film some short form videos today. And I'm like, eh, I'll do it tomorrow. You can pass it off. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do other things today, more important things. But if we had someone else holding us accountable, you can't wait.

48:57And like for myself, I have an editor who she expects eight videos from me every two weeks. And so we get to that two week deadline and I haven't made those videos. I got someone holding me accountable. So I couldn't agree more. One other thing that I wanted to add here is with this idea of experimenting and trying new things, this comes directly from I recently had a conversation with not just the head of Instagram, but also the head of the Instagram for business creative team. So they're the official account that talks to business owners and small business owners about Instagram. They have like 20 million followers.

49:31And I talked to the head of their team and he said, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is looking at your competitors for inspiration because then at best you're going to come in second place. He said, instead, I thought this was so good. Look outside of your industry for inspiration and ideas. And oh my gosh, this is such a creative video. oh, I got to remake my own version because then you're not becoming a parrot of someone else in your industry. You're taking an amazing idea and you're the first person in your space, in your niche, in your industry to show up with that kind of content.

50:07So I thought that was such a juicy tip that he gave and I couldn't agree more with it. Don't you also think that'd be so much better for our mental health too, that we're not like following and mimicking our competitors. I just think too, from a standpoint of like creativity and challenging yourself of like, what is my take on this? Or like, how would this even apply to what I do? I think that's genius. And also when we think back to what Adam said about like one of their goals is like more original content, that would be way more original than jumping onto something else that has already been done a million times.

50:41I love that. Brock, what is one thing that a listener today could take action on to get some sort of results on Instagram, especially if they've been feeling frustrated? Yeah. I will have two things. Number one, I will say lean into share worthy content. Share worthy content is what Instagram is optimizing for. They want our posts to be shared more. The kind of posts that when Jenna sees it, she sends it to me. That doesn't need the algorithm to figure out who would be interested. That is a person who is interested, Jenna, sending it to me, another person who she thinks would be interested. Now that post has doubled its viewers from one to two, and I am another ideal, perfect target viewer for that post.

51:26That's what Instagram wants. And so the more we can create this share with the content, be it a relatable meme or a joke, something that relates to pop culture and your niche, something that is maybe breaking news or timely or trendy. Those sorts of things are oftentimes very shareworthy. Leaning into that would be huge. I would also say just look back at your own posts from the past. And if you have a post or maybe multiple that got a significantly higher amount of shares, Hey, there's your idea. Recreate that or repost that because it's already been proven to work. That's the tactical tip. My second thing that I wanted to say, and this is really what I want to leave people with is there was plenty of great info today.

52:10There was plenty of great info shared. There's plenty of unlimited amount of helpful Instagram tips and strategies and advice that you can find online. However, the only real way that you are going to get better is by actually pressing post by just pressing post, not overthinking, not overanalyzing, not watching another course. That's going to help make your videos 1 % better, but posting, because what I think we do way too often is we judge our posts before they're out into the world. That doesn't make any sense because we're all horrible judges of our own content. How many times have we, all of us, myself included, I know this has happened to you, Jenna.

52:47You've made a post and you're like, oh, this is so good. You post it, crickets. And then on the other hand, you have a post that you're like, I just whipped this up. I didn't even think about it. Like I whipped it up, I posted it. And then I was like doing something else and I forgot that I posted. and you check it a few hours later and you're like, holy crap, this was my best post of the month. So we're all horrible judges of our own content. So stop judging your own content. Just press post, let the world, let your audience and your followers be the judge and then learn from it. If it did horribly, what could be fixed?

53:17If it did great, what small pieces could you take out and apply to your future reels? But at the end of the day, that's only possible if you just press post. Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm going to link to your interview with Adam. Can you give us a little taste of what is inside of that interview? Just because I think people should finish this episode and go listen to that one. You did such a good job interviewing, but it was such an insightful interview. And I also think when we as creators know what Instagram is prioritizing, we can play into that prioritization and reap the rewards of that. And so give us a little taste of what's going down in that interview.

53:56It was really insightful. I think that there was a lot of value to be learned. I don't think there was necessarily anything that was world shattering. There might've been a few things that some people, it might rock their world, but I think in general, and I told this to him after the interview was done off air, if I was to boil our conversation down to one sentence, it would be everybody just calm down. He really demystifies a lot of the algorithm. He debunks a lot of myths, things about hashtags, things about posting and ghosting, things about how much do you need to be online, all of these different topics that freak us out, you know, as people trying to grow on Instagram, but he really simplified it and made it very practical and very obtainable for having success on Instagram.

54:37That doesn't mean easy, but it doesn't mean simple. And so, yeah, I highly encourage anyone listening to check that out. Okay. Where can everybody find out more about you, follow you, listen to your podcast, check out your YouTube, give us all the places. myspace.com forwards. No kidding. Brock 11 Johnson is my handle. Instagram is the best place to get connected. I'm super active in my DMS. If anyone listened to today's episode and they want to take a screenshot and post a story and tag Jenna and I, or they want to send me a DM and tell me what like their biggest lesson learned was, that would be awesome.

55:10I would love to connect with people in the DMS, but if not just a follow on Instagram, I try to post multiple times every day with helpful tips and strategies. So even if you only see one of my posts a week, you're going to learn something and you're going to feel a little bit more capable on Instagram because of it. Awesome. And your podcast is? Build Your Tribe, available on YouTube and Spotify and all the other podcast apps. Awesome. Brock, you are one of my favorite creators. I feel like you keep me in the loop better than anyone else. You're like my friend that's giving me the elbow nudge of like, hey, here's what's going on right now.

55:43And I also just think for anyone that's feeling stumped or curious about like how to create today, just following Brock will give you kind of a blueprint and a roadmap of looking at, okay, this is what I can try. This is how I can make this work for me. So definitely go out and give him a follow. Thanks for coming on the show today, Brock. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. Okay. This episode is exciting and terrifying in so many ways because Instagram is changing. It's always been changing. It literally changes every single day. And so the way that we create and the way that we approach it as creators has to continue evolving just like the app is.

56:23What I think is interesting is it's going to really show us who is able and willing to keep up with it and who is okay with either underperforming or letting this piece of the business go. One thing that I think is so important to evaluate when it comes to Instagram is, is the ROI there? Is the return on your investment with both your time, your energy, and even your money worth it for you and your business? And you need to be the CEO that knows the answer to that. For me, my goal on Instagram is to connect with people there to get them off of the app and onto places where I can control their experience and serve them at a higher level, whether that's this podcast, my email list, or through the programs that I create.

57:04And so really getting clear on what are your goals on Instagram, what are you willing to do, what are you hoping to experiment with, and what actions can you take today will guide your strategy forward even as the platform continues to change. I also highly recommend following along with Brock because he is constantly dropping updates and keeping us in the loop as to what is working on the platform and leaning on the tried and true strategies that have been true for years and that are still true today, no matter what platform you're showing up on. Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

57:36If you know someone who could benefit from hearing this conversation, make sure you share it with them. Just take a minute, hit the share button. You're basically sending them strategy in a conversation that they can implement and take action on. And of course, until next time, gold diggers keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the gold digger podcast. I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.

58:17And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.

58:28Thank you.