929: Tired of Chasing Trends? Here’s How to Grow Steady, Reliable Sales with Email

0:01This episode is supported by What Should I Do With My Money? From Morgan Stanley. Okay, can we just talk about how money is legitimately one of the hardest topics to bring up. Like even when you think you have your stuff together, there's always this really weird awkwardness around it. That's why I am obsessed with this podcast. It actually makes money conversations feel approachable. I recently listened to an episode about affording multiple big life things at once, like a wedding, a house, an IVF, if they were all happening at the same time. And honestly, it hit home. So many people are wondering, can we actually have it all without sacrificing our sanity or our savings?

0:42What I love is that they bring in real experts who help break down these massive costs into actual doable steps. It's like having a money mentor in your ear who gets it. Search for What Should I Do With My Money in your podcast player. We'll also include a link in the show notes. Many thanks to What Should I Do With My Money and Morgan Stanley for their support. When you shift the way you think of it, your email is no longer a second form of your sales page. It is selling somebody the evidence that they should click to learn more. Your sales page should be doing the conversion for you, not your email.

1:21I'm Jenna Kutcher, and I help you trade hustle for purpose and build a business that gives you the life you actually want to live. From a$300 Craigslist camera to a seven figure business I run from home, I've learned that success isn't just about what you do. It's about how you live. Here, you'll get strategies that work, systems that give you your time back and steps that turn your effort into results and impact. If you're ready for clarity, confidence, and a business that feels as good as it looks, you're in the right place. This is the Gold Digger Podcast. If you've ever stared at your email list, wondering why it's not growing, or if you're not even sure where to start, this coaching session is going to light a fire under you.

2:10Shilpi Zalani is a high performance coach, a powerhouse entrepreneur, and a mentor for ambitious moms who are ready to ditch their either or mindset and build freedom-based businesses that support both their success and their families. Through her program from nine to thrive, she's helping women break through limiting beliefs, get financially independent, and finally create a business that actually fits their lives. Shilpi has started, scaled, and exited multiple six-figure ventures, generating over$1 million in revenue across her businesses. And she's done it all while navigating motherhood, cultural expectations, and the highs and lows of entrepreneurship, making her uniquely qualified to guide other women towards that same level of freedom.

2:50In today's coaching session, we're going to dive into one of the most valuable assets in your business, which is your email list. We're talking about how to grow it when you don't have a big audience, how to create lead magnets that convert, and most importantly, how to actually sell without feeling pushy or salesy. If you've been spinning your wheels, chasing the algorithm, and you're craving a system that can work behind the scenes to grow your business, trust me when I say this episode is absolutely for you. And if you're somebody who you're like ready to grow your list to serve your audience and maximize your impact without feeling like you're stuck on the content hamster wheel, I want for you to sign up for my free class.

3:29It's called From Zero Subscribers to an email list of engaged buyers. And you can sign up for your free seat at growanemallist.com. Not only am I going to teach you about how to start and grow your email list, I'm going to pull back the curtain on the metrics that show off email superpowers when you compare it to social media and how it is not going to take you more time. It's going to get you your time back. Save your free seat at growanemailist.com. Now, without further ado, Shilpi Zilani, welcome to the Gold Digger Podcast. Welcome to the Gold Digger Podcast, Shilpi. Hi, Jenna. I'm so excited to be here.

4:05Thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Okay, so paint us the picture of kind of where you are right now, the business that you're running, and then let's dive in. You prepared some awesome questions, and so I can't wait to get to them. Thank you once again. So my name is Shilti Zulani, and I'm a serial entrepreneur, certified high-performance coach, and a mentor. But more than that, I'm a mom of two who's been on both sides of the struggle, the corporate grind and the quest for freedom. So I was born in India, grew up in Malaysia, and I come from a very culturally conservative background, if you will, where women were primarily expected to be housewives.

4:44And I became the first woman in my extended family to earn a degree and start working. But when I got married and moved to the US, I was on a dependent visa and I suddenly couldn't work. And for the first time, I felt completely trapped. Eventually, I fought my way back. I went to grad school here in the U.S. and started working again in corporate IT. And everything felt like it was finally falling in place until I became a mom. Before kids, I could handle the commute, the overtime, even the gender inequality that women face at work. But once I tried to manage it all, I found myself completely burnt out.

5:23And the mom guilt hit hard. And I still remember one night after a long workday. My little one came up to me and said, Mama, I miss you. Why do you have to work? And that moment, Jenna, completely broke me. I realized I didn't want to choose between my career and my family. So I took a leap of faith and started my first business. And over time, I built and sold multiple six-figure ventures that gave me the freedom I'd been searching for, really. Now through my program, From 9 to Thrive, I help ambitious moms build businesses that fit their lives instead of running them. Because too many of us are really stuck in careers that demand everything from us, but give back so little flexibility.

6:10And while I've built and sold several brick and mortar type of businesses, this is my first online business, which means I'm now in that exciting but challenging stage of building and nurturing my audience. And that's why I'm so excited to talk to you today to learn how to grow through email marketing and systems that really create connection without burnout or guilt. Oh, I think so many women have faced like visceral, like line in the sand moments like that. And it's really interesting because I really do believe that we're at a really interesting time in history in like just the modern era that we're in, where women are really having to choose, like, which path am I going on?

6:53Can I do both? Is both even possible? And it's just a really unique time to be mothering and to be an entrepreneur and to be all of the things. So I love that. And I love what you're doing. Okay, let's dive on in to some questions. Here we go. Yes. So my first question is really about, you know, many women feel torn between speaking to everyone versus narrowing their message? How do you define a niche and message that not only resonates, but actually helps you attract the right subscribers to email list? Okay, so I think that so much of it has to do with being people pleasers, especially like raising daughters.

7:34It's it's such a fine line, right? Of like, how do you, you know, be kind and generous to everyone, but also how do you be really clear? And I think that when we struggle with getting clear about who is it that we want to serve and we want to work with, a lot of that comes from we don't want to make anyone feel left out, right? There is an innate fear within us of we want to be welcoming and inclusive and kind to all different types of people. But when it comes to marketing, I really have been learning and diving so deep, like in a nerdy way into like, how do we be really clear with our messaging, what we stand for, who we stand with, what does this look like?

8:17And so, you know, we've all heard the saying of like, when you try to talk to everyone, you talk to no one. But I think now more than ever before, it is necessary that we niche down and we're incredibly clear. And it's because information is so readily available and so easy to access, right? And so if we are getting general information, we usually take general action, which is inaction, right? But if we are getting specific information and we feel seen and heard and understood, that is what it takes in this attention era that we're in where people's attention is really what we're trying to get.

8:56And so the more clear we can be, the more clear somebody is in taking the next step and actually moving towards action. And so I think what's beautiful is, is like, I am no longer searching for general information when it comes to anything. Like right now I can look out my window. We just got a greenhouse and I'm like, I don't want general greenhouse tips. I need to know what is going to work in Northern Minnesota, right? Same thing goes for women and careers and figuring out what their path is. Who is it that you're speaking to? And the more clear you can be, the less people you need to reach, but the more people will actually move.

9:32And so it's this shift in the way that we perceive value and success from being this numbers game and this volume game to going and focusing on depth and not width. And so I think some of it has to do with societally and culturally unpacking this desire to please everybody and really asking yourself, like, who exactly am I speaking to? And one thing that we did this year that was so beneficial, we did a whole episode about it, was surveying our audience. And even if you have a small audience, getting insight into who it is and who your work can help the most offers in that clarity so that anytime you go to create something, You're writing to one person and not to many.

10:17And it really can shift your marketing and it can add that clarity that can be sometimes hard to add when you're thinking of multiple people. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. That was so helpful. Thank you. Okay. So my next question is more around like when you're creating a freebie or lead magnet to grow your list, do you think it's more powerful to focus on an emotional transformation? like for me, it's freedom of flexibility or more of a tangible result, like helping someone hit their 5K month. Okay. So here's what I think. And this also will play into the marketing of your freebie. So I like, I think this is a double edge sword in a beautiful way, because the way that we want to think about this is not only in what is in the guide itself, but how do we get people to opt in for it?

11:05Right. And it's like two pieces, right? The creation and the marketing of the creation. And so the emotional hook is what will get people to click. So having that hook where somebody is like, yes, she gets me. This is what I need. This is that thing. That is what gets people to click. But the transformation and the results, like the tangible results is what is going to keep them there. So it's this mix of both of the things. And what's interesting is, is that in my company, we have like probably about 10 main freebies. And again, I have been doing this very, very long time. I have many different offers.

11:40And so I always recommend at least having two different freebies so you can kind of split test and see what's working better. But recently I got like so excited. I got my energy. I was like, I'm going to create a new freebie. And what I noticed I was doing is I was creating first with that emotional hook in mind. Like what are the marketing angles that I'm going to market this freebie with that are juicy enough to catch people's attention. But then what am I putting inside of this thing that really leads people to action that gives them that win, that quick win and that result? And a lot of times I think we overcomplicate things and we almost create an experience for somebody to not get results because it's maybe too complicated or too long of a timeframe.

12:23And so it's like we're undermining the power of quick wins and the ability to prove to somebody that they can progress, even if their progress is really tiny. And so they both do that. And so I think it's like, yes, paint that feeling of freedom, but also give them a quick and tangible win that you can kind of promise them. And one thing that helps me to do this, and I feel like I do this with podcast episodes. I do this with offers. I do this with courses. I do this with everything as I think, what is the ruler that I want somebody to hold this creation up to, to say clearly, did I get this end result?

13:04Yes or no. And if you don't paint that ruler for them, they're going to create one in their own head of like, was this worth it? Did I get the value? I thought I was. And so giving somebody a very, a very clear ruler to hold up that creation to saying by the end of this guide, you will X, Y, Z. By the end of this episode, you will understand X, Y, or Z. Hand them the ruler. And then that way, you know, you will keep measuring up and you will exceed expectations. Got it. That's so helpful because right now I think my program, I'm only using the emotional transformation, but not using the tangible result.

13:42And I think that could really make a difference in my business. So thank you so much. That's very helpful. Let me add something to this too, because I think it's important. and it's so good. So I am you, you are me. This is how I create. So there are two types of people out there in terms of both marketers and in terms of buyers. And they're very different. And oftentimes we create out of how we like to consume. And so like for me, I am like a possibility painter, right? Like I am like, just imagine with me, like this is possible for you. And that is one side of the fence. The other side is people that are running from fear.

14:21And this doesn't mean that they're like fear based. It's like they are moving away from something that doesn't work for them or they no longer want. And oftentimes our marketing will often be skewed one way or the other based on what we are personally doing. And so when I finally learned that, I feel like my mind was blown because I'm like, all of my marketing is just painting possibility. But it's not actually pointing out like, yes, this is the thing you're moving away from. And so when we can find that balance in our marketing, in our offers, in our copy, it can speak to both sides of the coin well, because we ultimately want a diverse community that is moving either towards or away, right?

15:01Like there's not one is better than the other. We just tend to create the one that we are more often. And so finding a balance in that, in how you create and market your offers will totally transform your results. And it will also attract in a different type of person that will really challenge you and help push you as a creator as well. Absolutely, thank you. I just have a follow-up question regarding lead magnets, if that's okay. What is working right now? Like, is it like more of a worksheet or a quiz? I heard is very popular these days. I know you have it all. So you could share just a bit about that.

15:38Okay, so here's what I think is working the best right now. and this is like where I'm getting excited and testing and iterating. So I believe, and this is like just my beliefs, it's not necessarily scientifically proven yet, but I feel like we are shifting into a more specific result. So like something that is highly specific and quickly delivered. So for example, I recently got really excited as I was doing research about podcasting. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm seeing all these little nuggets. I don't have time to go into Canva and make it beautiful. It's not a 10 page guide. Let me just drop it into a Google doc and get it over to people quickly.

16:21And it's almost like lo-fi creation where it's like, there's not these pretty pictures of me doing what I do. It's like, here is the five things that I just discovered. And I want for you to know you can opt in to get them. And that was like the most recent opt-in that I was playing with where it's like, you just want the information. You don't care if it's pink or blue or purple. You don't care if there's pictures or not pictures. You want this piece of information. This information is juicy enough for you to opt in for it. So I do feel like it's important to just test different things and have fun with it.

16:54Like you are not curing cancer here. And I wish we were right. I so wish we were. We are just testing out different strategies. And so I am constantly like experimenting and having fun. So I would say one trend that I think is happening is just like lo-fi, hyper-specific, hyper-relevant content for your audience that is helpful right now that they can quickly consume and get benefit from. And I think that that is kind of the trend in this information era where information, again, is so readily available at our fingertips. Like what is the specific piece of the puzzle that we need or the piece of information that we can actually move with today that feels like it was directly created, curated or research for me.

17:38And so that's something I've been having a lot of fun with is like almost like pulling back all of the pretty and just like, here's what you need. And it also saves you a lot of time. Like there's very low risk in creating a Google Doc and having people opt in to get the link to a Google Doc, right? I love it. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. My next question is actually for someone starting out without a big audience. Yeah, that's totally me. What's working right now to grow an email list, especially when you don't want to rely on posting every day or chasing the algorithm? Yes. OK. So, again, I think that we're going back to this idea of like deeper and not wider.

18:16And I will never forget over a decade ago when I was starting out as a wedding photographer. I think a lot of times when you are starting out, imposter syndrome is like the passenger on the ride, right? Like, who am I to do this? Do I really know what I'm saying? And when I was a photographer, I remember like looking at every other photography website and I'm like, I just want to freaking blend in because I don't want people to like say like, you don't, who are you to be doing this? Right. And I remember when it like hit me like a ton of bricks where it was like, wait a minute, Like I do not need to appeal to every single couple that is engaged in the Midwest planning a wedding.

18:53I need 25 clients. That is all I need to fill my calendar and to meet my revenue goals. And I think that, again, the Internet has done a really great job of playing a trick on us saying like you need the masses and you need a high volume. High volume, low ticket is one way to do business. And it is not the way for most people. Most people thrive in a setting that is higher ticket, higher touch, lower volume. And I think that honestly, like when you are starting out, that is probably the main way to grow a sustainable business, right? It's not if you build it, they will come. It is like when you serve them, they will bring friends.

19:32And that's a huge differentiator for us. And so I would say like, one, you do not need a massive audience to build a powerful list. And I would argue that like the riches are in the niches in being able to serve a smaller audience more thoughtfully. And so you just have to really focus on your value, your promise, and then also look at other platforms. So like Instagram is just one lever you can pull in all of the levers of what you are doing and creating and how you reach people. For me, Pinterest is an amazing lever that is running while I'm sleeping. that is making everything that it works so hard on live way longer.

20:14Podcasting, another level, right? And so it's interesting to me because I fall into this trap as well, where it feels like if I am not online and posting, I'm irrelevant or I'm not driving results. But when we really dial it back and look at like, what is actually moving the needle? Like you coming on this podcast is probably going to move the needle for you way more than five reels on Instagram, right? 10 reels even, you know. And so it's like, how do we do higher impact work that actually yields results and lives on? And like, I feel like that is at the core of what I want people to do, because flash in the pan strategies are great, but you you cannot sleep well at night thinking is a flash going to come to the pan tomorrow, right?

21:00Like it's it's not sustainable. And so I would really look at like more long-term strategies. And I am like old school in that, like we still blog every single week. I started my business on a blog, but like SEO and having content that serves and is still working for you years from now, like I will just argue that looking at long-term growth strategies and levers you can pull in that way are always going to beat out trying to go viral or trying to have that moment that actually gets somebody's attention and gets them attentive enough to click off of an app and do an action that you want them to take.

21:38And so when I think about like an email list, and even if you had an email list of 25 people, if you invite them to personally respond and you start conversations with them, or you say, ask me a question and I will spend five minutes recording a loom for you or a voice message response for you, like going deeper, not wider is such a gift. And I think that it is so often overlooked. And I think it is so deeply craved, especially right now in our culture. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jenna. That was so helpful. So once people start getting subscribers, how do you actually turn those new names into paying clients or course buyers without feeling too pushy or too salesy?

22:23Yes. Okay. So one thing that I think we have to shift in terms of selling. I mean, I think a lot of us have a very complicated relationship with putting ourselves out there and asking for money. I know I do. And so I often feel like when we think of like selling, it almost feels like we need to convince somebody to buy something. And while that is true in some ways, I don't think it actually is the way that you sell through email. I think that selling through email is basically this continuation of a conversation that somebody said, I want to be a part of this. And it's like showing up as a mentor or a guide who genuinely has something to offer and knows that that offer is valuable.

23:06And I have really connected with this idea of like the people who want transformation and understand what transformation is possible. If we kind of circle back to that thought of like painting the possibility, they are excited to invest in that transformation. And so it's not this awkward value exchange of like, oh my gosh, you're giving me your money and I'm convincing you to do this. It is like, here's what I'm painting for you. You've got to put skin in the game to get there. And here's what this investment will give you. And I am somebody who, when I think of like knowledge based businesses, I often want to position this in this way of like, you get to pay to learn something once and you get to reap the rewards from learning that until the end of time, right?

23:59Like that is so valuable. And so when you think about positioning, and if you remove this idea of having to convince someone, and you think about the true opportunity to save somebody time, to save them money, to save them frustration, to save them from going down the wrong path. It is so easy to get convicted in what you're offering. The other thing I would say when it comes to an email list is you do not need to sell in an email. I think that's something that we get wrong. We often look at it and we're like, okay, how do we almost convince somebody to buy something in this email. Your email's job is to sell the click to your sales page.

24:40When you shift the way you think of it, your email is no longer a second form of your sales page. It is selling somebody the evidence that they should click to learn more. Your sales page should be doing the conversion for you, not your email. And so when you look at it in that way and you think, what do I need to say or what do I want to say to sell the click so that somebody can learn more about my product, my service, or my offer, it changes the way that you can communicate in email and it brings it back to a conversation and not a sales pitch. And so I think that differentiating those things can really help you get into a space where you're writing to one person and it feels incredibly personable.

25:25And all you are doing is inviting them to click to convert somewhere else. So it's not necessarily converting in the inbox, it's selling the click to where you want them to go. Yeah, I love it. And, you know, I remember hearing it from someone that said, I mean, sales, you don't want to be self-centered, but you want to be service-centered, really. And whether that's by email or in person. But I think having that kind of mindset really makes a difference. Yes, absolutely. Right. So my next question is, as a mom and entrepreneur, how can you set up systems like email automations that help you grow and serve your audience while still having flexibility and time for your family?

26:04Okay. I freaking love automations. Like if I could automate everything in my life, I probably would. What I love about email is so the average entrepreneur sends about 40 emails a day. That's crazy, right? Like that's a lot. And so when people come at me and they're like, I don't have time for an email list or things, I'm like, you are already doing the work. But instead of going one to one, you could go one to many if you sat down and were thoughtful with one email. And so what I love about automations is you can do it in one of two ways. And I've done them both ways. So they are both tried and true, in my opinion.

26:41So one way is to build out a sequence or an automation or a funnel week by week. So let's say, Shilpi, that you say and commit to sending one email per week to your email list and you have this insight like I'm going to send out four emails so one email per week this next month and those are going to become my welcome sequence all you're doing the same amount of work but you're building from a different place where you're thinking okay here this comes first this comes next following and following and so instead of feeling like an email to your list has to be a one and done or that you're constantly on the hook to be creating something crush every single week.