In short
A “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?”-style quiz about U.S. personal finance and consumer economics, mixed with discussion of investing priorities (401(k), Roth IRA, emergency savings), credit card debt behavior, and market-bear-market history. The episode also includes sponsor segments (Shopify, Wise, Cash App, Function Health) and a brief housing-vs-GDP question.
Guests
Evan Ray (host) and Andrew Saver (contestant). No other guests appear in the transcript.
Key claims
Many people lack emergency savings (about 24–32% report $0). Credit card debt is common (about 48% report carrying it month to month) and is costly (often >20% APR), so paying it down is prioritized over investing. A large share of gym memberships are unused (67% rarely/never used). Housing value is ~4x U.S. GDP (in the quiz).
Notable examples
Average credit score range (740), average new car price (~$49k), average credit card debt (~$7k), average bear market length (~18 months), average wedding cost (~$34.2k), median U.S. bonus (~$1,700), average monthly gas (~$200), and average monthly grocery bill for a single person (~$400).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOStarting a Business: Common Misconceptions
0:31 to 1:32
The hosts discuss the myth that starting a business requires a groundbreaking product.
“There's a huge misconception that to start a business, you need to invent some revolutionary product.”
Game Format Explained
2:42 to 4:25
The hosts outline the rules and structure of the game, including question tiers.
“I'm still going to try to use them even if you're not going to, if you're claiming I can't.”
Prizes for Participation
4:28 to 4:52
Listeners are incentivized to play along for potential recognition and rewards.
“So this will be, I think this will be an exciting episode.”
Question One: Average Credit Score
6:06 to 7:10
Andrew answers the first question about the average credit score in the U.S.
“Clarifying questions or it just has to be straight up off the top of my head.”
Question Two: 401k Contribution Limit
7:25 to 9:13
Discussion on the 2026 401k contribution limit and its implications.
“Maybe they'll be telling future questions.”
Personal Finance Advice
9:24 to 10:38
The hosts share insights on 401k contributions and alternative financial priorities.
“I would say that it's good that the limit is so high, but I think it kind of lures feels a little predatory for the situation, but lures people into putting more into the 401k than they need to or should.”
Question Three: Average New Car Price
10:40 to 11:40
Andrew tackles the third question regarding the average price of a new car.
“We are currently 0 for 2, sadly, but we can definitely turn that around.”
Question Four: Average Credit Card Debt
11:45 to 12:33
Discussion about the average credit card debt carried by Americans.
“So the options of average credit card debt in the U.S.,$1 ,000,$3 ,000,$5 ,000, or$7 ,000.”
Question Five: Average Length of a Bear Market
12:36 to 14:01
The hosts discuss the average length of bear markets and its financial implications.
“we're talking what people actually carry, not the maximum that they happen to hit.”
Understanding Bear Markets and Historical Data
14:01 to 16:57
Learn the average length of bear markets and implications of historical data on future market behavior.
“I'm specifically avoiding AI summaries for this because then they're going to go to Reddit and find what somebody, as we were talking about before the episode, somebody sarcastically said something.”
Show all 24 chapters
Impact of Technology on Market Cycles
16:58 to 19:04
Explore the relationship between technological advancements and the duration of bear markets.
“And so maybe just hypothetically, it could be either way, maybe, you know, now going into the future, bear markets will get longer than they were in the past or get shorter or the times will change.”
Housing Market Insights
19:05 to 21:52
Discuss the valuation of U.S. housing compared to GDP and its implications.
“Man, I mean, I would, my intuition says housing has gotten so much more expensive than income has.”
Emergency Savings and Financial Education
22:21 to 28:00
Examine the percentage of Americans without emergency savings and discuss financial literacy.
“Your focus and mental health leave a data trail in your body and function tracks it.”
The Dilemma of Outpacing Debt
28:00 to 29:12
Learn strategies to manage credit card debt and investments.
“Screw the payment, put whatever you're able to towards SpaceX, and they'll just pay off the credit card debt for you.”
Subscription Spending Insights
29:12 to 30:51
Discuss the average subscription spending habits of Americans.
“number seven second question here in tier two the average american subscription spending per month and we'll make this a plus or minus$50 on subscriptions.”
The Gym Membership Paradox
30:51 to 32:48
Explore the percentage of gym memberships that go unused.
“Because if you subscribe for like YouTube TV or something, that's already like 90 bucks, 100 bucks.”
Understanding Wedding Costs
32:48 to 34:24
Examine trends in average wedding costs and their implications.
“and now it's like we are a special gym you got to come here because we're special when in reality you could do 95 of it with just some free weights of varying sizes and you could handle most of what you need to.”
Credit Card Debt Myths
34:24 to 38:08
Debunk common misconceptions about credit card debt and credit scores.
“This one seems tougher in hindsight than it did when I wrote it.”
Average Loan Terms and Bonuses
39:10 to 42:00
Discuss average loan terms for cars and typical bonus amounts.
“I mean, I think traditionally it's always been five months.”
Understanding Bonus Structures
42:00 to 47:20
Learn about typical bonus amounts and their implications in the workplace.
“So what's the appropriate bonus for that?”
Debt Management Strategies
47:20 to 53:20
Explore how to allocate bonus money effectively between spending and saving.
“question gotta do the math now would be 13 it's 12 actually 12 uh average amount spent on gas per month in the u.s and we're going to make this plus or minus 100 dollars average gas so again I'm in North Carolina.”
Exploring Financial Inequities
53:20 to 56:00
Discuss the perceptions of younger generations towards investments and economic challenges.
“You're not going to be paid nearly as much in terms of scaling everything as anybody has in the past.”
Building Financial Habits for Success
56:00 to 59:02
Learn how to create financial habits that lead to long-term success.
“So what would you say to somebody who maybe is in a less ideal financial situation than they would like to be?”
Reflecting on the Game and Scores
59:02 to 1:00:38
Discussion on the episode's quiz scores and reflections on performance.
“I mean, uh, it was a fun time, even though I didn't win anything.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00So today's episode has the potential to either go very well or very poorly for our lovely contestant today. So please do your best to support them in the comments below. And I invite you as well, listener, to play along in today's game with Andrew, who is the spoiler alert, is the lovely contestant. And let us know in the comments how good you did. What was your score overall? And be honest, because I really only have the honor system to go on here. So just be a truthful person in the comments and don't say 100%. Unless you did get 100%, in which case, congratulations. So enjoy the episode. There's a huge misconception that to start a business, you need to invent some revolutionary product.
0:35But the truth is you really don't. Some of the best businesses start as a simple side hustle, like selling a craft you make on the weekends or turning a hobby into extra cash. For a lot of people, the real hurdle isn't the idea. It's the technology. Figuring out how to actually sell online is where a lot of folks just give up. That's exactly why you need Shopify. Shopify is the e-commerce platform responsible for millions of sales worldwide. It handles all facets of your business, your online storefront, your inventory management, and your point of sale. So you don't have to juggle 10 different systems.
1:10One platform is all you need. You also don't need to be a tech expert. Shopify templates and AI tools get you a stunning site up and running fast. No coding needed. And because Shopify handles the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on actually growing your business. If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com slash beginners to start your free trial. That's right. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash beginners. That's Shopify.com slash beginners. Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send money abroad with your everyday bank?
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2:29good day everyone and welcome back to at any rate my name is evan ray and we are here to help you make sustainable financial changes without breaking a sweat and please as often welcome back my good old friend who probably only has a slight clue what's going to happen in today's episode andrew saver how you doing andrew so i'm like walking into this picture me like in the who wants to be a millionaire studio just wide-eyed like you're standing at the lights studio like there's just like people all around me there's applause music applause every listener right now is clapping even if they're driving both hands are off the wheel and they're applauding you coming up to stage this this means so much to me yeah everybody's very happy for you there will sadly be no what are the the options you have you have like phone a friend and like eliminate an answer or something like that.
3:17I'm still going to try to use them even if you're not going to, if you're claiming I can't. That's fair. If it's for multiple choice and you say eliminate an answer, I'll just add a fifth one and then remove the fifth one. Hey, I'll take whatever help I can get. Alright, so today's format is going to be very similar to a game show that many of you probably heard of who wants to be a millionaire or if we don't want to get copyright who doesn't want to be a billionaire or something like that. But today's format is going to be 15 questions. There's going to be three tiers of questions, five questions in each tier, and you're going to be earning one point per question.
3:56And the goal is to get 10 out of 15 correct. And if you do hit 10 out of 15 correct, then there will be a prize to be determined. It'll be the format as well as bragging rights, at least minimum bragging rights. And as I mentioned in the intro, listeners, please follow along. and let us know what kind of a score you get. So kind of try and tally up in your head which ones you get right as you go along. And I will clarify that Andrew has seen none of these ahead of time. This is completely unprepped and unaware until we just started talking before the episode that this was even going to happen.
4:28So this will be, I think this will be an exciting episode. What's the prize for the listeners who get them right? Prize for the listeners? Oh man. You know, if you let us know honestly that you got 10 out of 15 in the comments, we will give you a lovely congratulations message and some kind of a compliment. How about you give them a picture or something? A picture, yeah. We can draw a picture for everybody who gets over 10 out of 15. And then can we post images and replies? Will it let us do that? Ah, that's a good question. I guess not. Maybe we'll have to describe. We'll draw something based on the person and then describe what was true if we have to.
5:04Right. In the comments. Or if you email us, then we can always reply with an image over email. So that's another option. Yeah. I'll draw it with emojis, you know. true yeah that's a much better idea we'll just use emojis okay so you'll get an emoji picture of some kind or what are those pictures that people oh man people draw with like the special characters like over multiple lines yeah that that would be cool emoticons not emoticons might be emoticons anyways so you're talking about like using like dashes and equal signs and yeah to make a shape hey i mean now now we're getting next level like this is becoming a skilled we've gone from like absolute brain twister to now like promising very very elaborate rewards i like it yeah and i'll remind you that the listeners currently have a higher level prize than the actual contestant just to clarify because you're not promised an emoticon of any kind just right like all the listeners are getting anyways so let's go ahead and get this started in tier one question one question one what is the average credit score in the united states and how there's multiple choice some of these will be multiple choice some will be ranges multiple choice average credit score in the u.s a 600 to 650 b 650 to 700 c 700 to 750 and d 750 to 800 wow am i I can always repeat if you need.
6:32Clarifying questions or it just has to be straight up off the top of my head. I mean, you can try and I can just not answer if that's what we choose to do. So I think you haven't watched the show much because they usually start with a softball.
6:50That was not a clarifying question, so I will be ignoring it. So you can move on now. All right. I'm going to lock in. I think it was 650 to 700. that is incorrect sadly it was 700 to 750 it was about 740 for my research for multiple sources love it so i mean pretty healthy country at the moment yeah yeah that's not honestly that was if i were to play this i would have guessed the same that you did i would have guessed between 650 and 700 i would have guessed a little bit lower than it actually was all right next question here and this one we basically want to get within plus or minus five thousand dollars so five thousand over or five thousand below what is the 2026 401k contribution limit oh man
7:43sorry it was question two but oh man is this for single or for married single or single wow that was just more like a stalling question than actually like helping me answer it at least I'm going to say 12-5 24-5 really yeah 24-5 we'll get that so if you're married you could do 50 ,000 or something okay we all know who's not maximizing their point if he was if he was putting 24.5 in, he would know that. He would know that. He just showed his hand. Maybe they'll be telling future questions. Who knows? But yeah, 24.5 is a lot, honestly. I mean, I did know that, just happened to know it, but that is a lot for the average person to be able to put in.
8:36I mean, I don't... Let me make sure this isn't a question going forward. I don't remember this being one. No, it's not. What would have been an interesting one, though, is how much the average person contributes to their 401k in an average year, and I would guess it's $10 ,000 or less, maybe nowhere near $24 ,000. Yeah, I mean, even$10 ,000, that's almost$1 ,000 a month. Does that include match? No, that does not include match. Okay. No, yeah, they can match over that. But to the benefit to somebody who hasn't done their 401k or hasn't considered increasing it, Like, how would you pitch that to somebody who's like brand new to personal finance?
9:24I would say that it's good that the limit is so high, but I think it kind of lures feels a little predatory for the situation, but lures people into putting more into the 401k than they need to or should. I think it causes a lot of people to say, oh, I can I can put so much money in this. I need to pile as much as I can into it. And while it's a very powerful place to put your money, it leaves a lot of people being very wealthy in their 401k by the time they're 40, 50, 60, and having very little money elsewhere to be able to afford to live or move. I know a lot of people are having a lot of people who work in the past who reach close to retirement age and again are decently wealthy in their 401k.
10:04They have a lot of money saved up, but they still can't afford to move out of the home that they've had for 20 years because they because all of their money is tied up in their 401k. So for me, as long as you're able to put some of your money towards it, just just try and max out an employer match if you have it available to you. and anything over that I think is good to do, but it should be one of your lower priorities of putting money, investing money somewhere. Prioritize a Roth IRA, emergency fund, high-held savings account, and if you've just got money coming out your ears past that, then go ahead and get close to maxing it out.
10:37Yeah, yeah, I love that. Beautiful. All right, on to question three. We are currently 0 for 2, sadly, but we can definitely turn that around. All right, next question. Again, plus or minus$5 ,000. average price of a new car in 2026 average not not median oh thank you for clarifying that yes yeah because that could a lot of these a lot of these questions will get skewed if you if you screw that up so we're talking about average new car point 20 new car um
11:1240 oh you were you were close to being in the range 49 000 oh dang again and i thought i was like going higher than than what i would have thought i i would have guessed close to your guess i might have guessed low 40s or maybe 45 but 49 was was a shock that is a lot a lot of money yeah i'm hoping you give like a vacation question how much does a vacation cost because i actually happen to google it i have the average vacation i thought you just meant like your vacation how much does andrew's vacation i i think we got a couple you got a couple options coming up all right fourth uh yeah fourth question here average credit card debt in the u.s and this This is multiple choice and they're rounded a bit.
12:01So the options of average credit card debt in the U.S.,$1 ,000,$3 ,000,$5 ,000, or$7 ,000.
12:14So, all right, here's where I struggle with this. And I'm not trying to make excuses, but if I go 0 for 4, it's going to be pretty embarrassing. If you were to look at my credit card average, for example, depending on when in the month you look at it, Like I could be accumulating until I make the monthly payment to pay it off. You know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, I, we're talking what people actually carry, not the maximum that they happen to hit. We're talking what they're in debt for because they haven't been able to pay it off at all. They haven't been able to pay off. So I'd say something that they've carried for over or past the due date.
12:51I would say, okay. Can you repeat the answers again? Yes. Yeah. 1 ,000, 3 ,000, 5 ,000, and 7 ,000. Okay. So because I can't stand to live with myself if I lose this question as well, I'm going to use my 50-50. I can't remember what they called it, but it eliminates two of the answers. Eliminates two. Okay, so are we choosing to honor these power-ups? Yeah, you have to. Come on, listen. That's fair. That's fair. No, we'll play that game. So I will eliminate the bottom two answers. It's not one or three. Okay. Well, then I'm going to guess five. It was seven.
13:37Oh, I was so positive on the, on the Americans there for a second. I thought that this was a good chance. Cause we've, we've mentioned that like several episodes back now, like last episode, but we've mentioned it a little while in the past. And so I was like, Oh, he's, it's gonna, it's gonna jog his memory. Right. Yeah. righty ho so moving on to question five we now have the it's another multiple choice average length of a bear market and again we're rounding slightly 18 months data i found said 10 oh that's what i get for uh overconfident i mean i guess you said 18 months which would have been one and a half years which is one of the answers so you still would have you would would have stuck with one of the answers.
14:24Yeah, I would have gotten it wrong. Okay, yeah, fair. I appreciate the comment. Hold on for a second. How far back did that data go? I don't recall. Let's do a fact check. If there's an AI, then I will like... No, no, no. It was not. I'm specifically avoiding AI summaries for this because then they're going to go to Reddit and find what somebody, as we were talking about before the episode, somebody sarcastically said something. I will duel the AI. Like an old Western. This is from Hartfordfunds.com 9.6 months. That was the one I originally got. And then, of course, the second option is Reddit.
15:04We're ignoring that. So how far did Hartford go? Oh, yeah. How far back did they go?
15:17Since 1928. Oh, okay. So they got the Great Depression in there, too. I mean, that's good news.
15:27I always think of like 2008, 2009. And that's not just completely side rail, but one of the things that investors struggle with, obviously myself included, is recency bias. So we think that like whatever we can recently remember, that that's what's going to happen in the future. And so I do think like hot take, a lot of the negativity around AI, AI bubble is really fueled by recency bias because everybody can remember the last technological revolution was the dot-com bubble, right? So we all think that it's going to play out exactly like that did. And I don't know, I'm kind of skeptical on that.
16:11And so for me, I hear bear market, I think of 2008, 2009, which was, as we see from this data, an extended bear market compared to nine months. I mean, that's surprising to me. And also reminds me, if I come across another one, as a stock picker, I better act quickly enough to take some advantages there. Yeah, that's a good insight. Playing devil's advocate, do you think that there's a possibility that, how would I phrase this, that technology is moving at such a different rate? We're kind of in just such a different time now than we were back in 1928, for example, moving at such a different pace that the average length of bear markets could potentially change because we're in a different time.
16:59And so maybe just hypothetically, it could be either way, maybe, you know, now going into the future, bear markets will get longer than they were in the past or get shorter or the times will change. Or do you think that going back, you know, far enough and capturing enough of history will be relatively representative going forwards? And I know nobody knows, just kind of your thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I think yes, yes and yes. So I think things have gotten shorter and especially you see Bitcoin on a four-year cycle now. That really has done a lot to, if you watch the way capital flows these days.
17:35But I also think very long-term, I think some of the generational cycles will still persist. And so that can, so what we've defined as a bear market is just really market volatility. but if you look at like longer term economic cycles government debt inflation that kind of stuff i don't think that i think that is more timeless because i do think like generations play a role so interest rates just big big picture macro stuff um i do think because like the way we think about money changes depending on what generation we're born in And a lot of those, I think, are longer term. But yeah, like you're saying, who knows?
18:19Nobody knows anything about macro. Right, right. No, I think that's an interesting take. Yeah, because I think my brain was getting a bit more stuck in the weeds of how drastically things can change with AI and the internet or whatever. that we're in such an unprecedented time, but at the same time, human life cycles and generations and the approximate time when people have kids and all that sort of stuff is still relatively on the same cycle as it has in the past. And so the kind of large macro cycle of humans is still going to be very similar. Okay, I'm going to flip it now. So you're going to be the celebrity.
18:57I'm going to give you one of the questions. so you're gonna answer on behalf of me because i happened to look this up last night and this one was ai overview so it's probably wrong but i'm gonna ask you the question anyways i'm gonna have to think like think like gemini yeah the value of um housing the value of u.s housing compared to gdp is it one times gdp two times gdp three times gdp four times gdp value of housing so by that do You mean like the totaled up value of all the housing in the U.S. versus the U.S. GDP? Yes. It was one, two, three, and four times?
19:43Man, I mean, I would, my intuition says housing has gotten so much more expensive than income has. And so it feels like that must mean that housing is scaling at a much faster rate. and so I would I'm going to say three times I got you it's actually four dang it okay that would have been my second guess at least but that's that's insane to think about yeah for sure housing is just what do you kind of glean from that the housing is incredibly expensive or the GDP is lagging yeah housing is really expensive the AI was saying like the fact that people leverage it up so you put like 20 % down on a good day, right?
20:2880 % of this value is leveraged. So that's why you can see it scale up so much higher than GDP. But no, I'm far from like an expert on housing stock, but it's just kind of interesting to think about. No, it definitely is. Definitely is. The more I've gotten to learn about Bitcoin and start to dip my toes with it, the more I realized some of my preconceived notions were incorrect. For example, I don't have to be all Bitcoin or all stocks. I can learn very instructive lessons about assets, currencies, and investments from the very long-term history of the world, and I don't have to be a speculative trader or radical enthusiast or even somebody who frets about the volatility when I have the right tools to set up a prudent allocation for my finances.
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23:44Yep. It could start feeling very easy very soon. All right. So tier two, even though they're supposed to scale up in difficulty, tier two here, we have what percent of Americans, what percent of Americans have$0 in emergency savings? Of course, this is self-reported. $0 in emergency savings. So they can have money elsewhere, like we're talking about a 401k earlier, Roth IRA, but they don't have money just in an emergency to be able to afford something. and we're going to give you an 8 % range here because I couldn't find a solid single number from multiple sources really. So I've got a range here and it's an 8 % range.
24:20So the goal is to land within there. Oh man, that's tough. Can I phone a friend? Have you got somebody on the phone? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I want to phone Evan Wright. He's in a meeting right now. He's busy. Can't take a call. He could text you maybe. that's funny how about I give a range and so if I'm within it like if my range is within your range then I'm willing to do that I'll give you an 8 % range I'll say 60 % to 68 % 24 to 32 oh okay not nearly that many not too bad though 24 to 32 but it's still means close to a third or at least a quarter of people in the US can't afford basically any emergency to pop up at any moment.
25:18What I don't understand is why carry credit card debt, but also have savings. We're basically saying that three quarters to two thirds of people have savings for an emergency. Because we were just talking about how many don't. So what's the difference between like, why would you carry credit card? I don't know. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a good question. I mean, I think it just shows in general how unaffordable things are. And to some degree as well, how non financially educated a lot of people are that, I mean, I've, I've personally known people who have gone to college at, you know, did decently well in school, like overall are decently educated people.
26:02They're not, They're not stupid people and they see credit cards as just a free place to spend money, basically, that they just pay off at some point in the future with no rush whatsoever. And I don't know where that mindset exactly comes from, but I think it's pretty clear to me that it's so pervasive in so many people that it can be really easy to fall into that trap. And if all your money gets sunk into a credit card one time, then it's just such a difficult. hole to pull yourself out of. Yeah, I mean, how do you fix that? It's very tough because some options you can transfer that balance elsewhere and get a lower rate, but those have relatively high requirements, at least if we're looking at the demographic of people that would have a bunch of money in credit card debt, that doesn't overlap very well with the demographic of people they would accept to transfer their balance and so a lot of people just get stuck with the money in a credit card i think a lot of it is just setting up a plan of some kind that's not going to just absolve you of the debt or lower the interest rate or do anything like that but i think a lot of people see it and say i'll pay that you know as i'm able to and then they hardly do anything or just kind of they put one lump sum and feel good about themselves for six months and never do it again and i think just setting up a habit or an automation or whatever of just 100 a month 200 a month just towards it consistently then it'll eventually go away and you can do the math on the timeline and at least it becomes a certainty that it'll go away but i think for a lot of people it's not even a certainty yeah i mean i don't want to harp on it but the interest rate for credit cards is usually over 20 percent you if you're an average investor you earn 10 in the stock market so if you have credit card debt you're losing to the stock market unless you're warren buffett stock market genius that's any credit card that you have is losing to the market so yeah you've got to put in the work and it will be better for your net worth right yeah yeah it's tough because there's nothing you can do to outpace it at all um i think you just you just gotta slow it down as much as possible take it down as much as possible and that's your only choice no man you just buy spacex stock and then uh wait for us to go to mars that's a much better idea we are we are we're recommending everybody in credit card debt.
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28:25Screw the payment, put whatever you're able to towards SpaceX, and they'll just pay off the credit card debt for you. I guarantee you. It'll be easy to pay off$7 ,000 of credit card debt when you've got$100 ,000 in SpaceX stock. You're going to get quoted by AI. No, I'm done serious. It's so true, though. It's so sad. Oh, my God. Hopefully, they use context to figure out sarcasm, but I don't know. Based on some results, I don't think they're as good at that as they should be. no i should have asked if i could phone chat gpt that would be my buddy that would be that's that's a good question yeah you could yeah and not cite any sources whatsoever just randomly choose it if that's something you choose to do we can introduce it i can't i can't not get one question right so we'll see we'll see if i need to resort to that that's fair that's fair all right question number seven second question here in tier two the average american subscription spending per month and we'll make this a plus or minus$50
29:31on subscriptions. Does that include... So I guess you'll have to use your own... Because I think the number would be obvious, but does that include cable TV? You know what I mean? Like a YouTube TV subscription? Yeah, it includes stuff like that. The only thing... It wouldn't include, you know, obviously gas or healthcare or stuff like that. We're just talking about sort of not necessities. We're talking about Netflix. We're talking about cable. Any kind of subscription like that. Internet. No, we're not talking about internet. That's a good question. No. This is very squishy. It is squishy. Okay, we'll make it we can widen the range.
30:15Yeah. How about 80 plus or minus 80? or do you want 100 are you gonna argue i want 100 okay plus or minus 100 subscriptions per month 300 111 now i'm willing wrong i'm willing to fudge that question because because you brought up good questions of how many things we're including in it and i think that it could very very it It could vary drastically depending on what we're including in that or not. Because if you subscribe for like YouTube TV or something, that's already like 90 bucks, 100 bucks. You got like red zone to there. Who's not getting red zone? Come on. I don't care if you're into football or not.
31:06Okay, so we'll go ahead and we'll go ahead and fudge that question. I think that is a fair fudge. We'll count that one. all right moving on to question technically question number eight but question number seven uh percent of gym memberships that are rarely rarely or never used we've got multiple choice here we've got 23 35 51 or 67 of gym memberships that are rarely or never used can you eliminate two. I can eliminate 23 and 35. So we'll do 51 or 67 are the two options. That made it harder. I was already going to go on the high end. That was the goal. That was the goal? Yeah, that was the goal.
31:54Well, I'm just going to do this answer based on how popular Ozumbik's getting. And if I'm wrong, that's fine. So I'm going to go 67. You are correct. Yeah. That is a correct answer right there. That feels good. This is a financial podcast. We won't dive too heavily into the underlying meanings behind this, but that is a staggering percentage. And I think a lot of people could save a lot of money if they either didn't do it or be a lot better about their health if they used what they had. So you could see just being honest with yourself and like, okay, I'm going to cut the gym membership. Some of the fees for those are kind of insane.
32:34like just like a difference between 10 years ago and today like it's a pretty significant chunk of people's monthly budgets now yeah everything gets framed as premium you know what i mean they added they had some different lighting and a couple unique machines or whatever and now it's like we are a special gym you got to come here because we're special when in reality you could do 95 of it with just some free weights of varying sizes and you could handle most of what you need to. Do the gyms in Florida have tanning beds? They don't. Not that I've seen. At least most of them don't. I'm sure some of them do.
33:12I've seen that. We just walk outside. That's what I was going to say. Come on. There's a beach right down the street. Regardless of where you are in Florida, just about. Next question here. We will make this plus or minus$10 ,000. You've got to get within. Average US wedding cost in 2026 within $10 ,000 plus or minus 10 35 dang 34-2 so you were within 800 bucks of it it's a rounding error yeah recently married
33:53we spent 34-2 we spent 34-2 on it dang alright good work that is two in a row that is uh that's building some momentum them for sure it may not be enough for 10 out of 15 but it can be it can be it we're just less and less embarrassing is the direction yeah yeah we're just trying to salvage the ego at this point yeah salvage the ego the ego should have a bit of a boost right now so you should get this question right which is what percent of americans say they have credit card debt that they carry month to month whether on purpose or not so they some percent of people that have um some kind of credit card debt that they're carrying.
34:31And we'll make this plus or minus 10%. I literally have no idea. Like seriously, I have no idea. Yeah. This one seems tougher in hindsight than it did when I wrote it. Everything seems right. It seems easier when you write it because then the second after you write it, Google it and figure it out. So I'm remembering the show. So you have like a 50, 50, you can cancel out. you can also pull the audience and you can phone a friend I can't remember what the last one was we'll reduce
35:09I can't remember either we can google it real quick who wants to be a millionaire power ups
35:20light flying is what they call 50 ask the audience those are the only core ones special ones allow the contestant to make two guesses uh bring a companion switch or jump the question entirely so it looks like the main other one is two guesses okay which since this is a range i think that's kind of reasonable yeah okay so we will make we'll make this one since this this would be i think very difficult it feels like it could be anywhere in this range anywhere 0 to 100 almost we'll make this plus minus 10 but you get two guesses so you can eliminate a 20 % wide range with one guess I don't know how to do that
36:14what'd you say 50 % yeah 48 % oh wow so this is the state of America this is us we have$7 ,000 average in credit card debt. Half of the people are carrying a balance, but also three quarters of people have some savings. Okay. I think we're building a good picture of America right now. I will also say, and I don't know what the ratio is for this. Cause again, this is all just kind of self-reported more or less that a good chunk of those people I think carry the debt on purpose because they believe that it'll improve their credit score because I know that there's I know there's a belief or um the heck like a a myth basically because it's it's just factually not correct that carrying some amount of money or some amount of percentage utilization from bill to bill is better for your credit score so I would bet that maybe a quarter to a third of these people probably of that 50 percent are doing it on purpose yeah that's um that's a shame that's like the best lie that credit card companies could have oh man to us yeah and when it's 24 apr then even not carrying a ton of money from bill to bill is just going to be adding up to not not a fortune but it'll just be a basically a small bill that you're tacking on to everything that you have to pay indefinitely just because they convinced you of it.
37:44I mean, I've had a high credit score in the past with no credit card debt, so
37:52it's... Yeah, I've spoken to people who have worked in the credit bureau industry and have stated that that is not correct. Carrying nothing. Basically, as little as possible or nothing is ideal. So, always pay off your credit cards in full, people. Please. Mm-hmm. Evening by his remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations.
38:32I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Have you ever wondered why we call French fries French fries or why something is the greatest thing since sliced bread there are answers to those questions everything everywhere daily is a podcast for curious people who want to learn more about the world around them every day you'll learn something new about things you never knew you didn't know subjects include history science geography mathematics and culture if you're a curious person and want to learn more about the world you live in just subscribe to everything everywhere daily wherever you cast your pod all right so we are currently on a streak of three of nine because we cut out one question so three of nine is where we're at so far so moving on to tier three the final five questions first question of tier three average loan term for a new car within 10 months plus or minus 10 months.
39:34Yeah. I mean, I think traditionally it's always been five months. Wait, five months? I mean, five years. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. And I've seen it. Yeah. Thank you for helping me. This is awesome. I was like, okay. He wants me to win the prize or he's just feeling sorry for me. But either way, it works. It can be both. so five months I know they've extended to six five years I know they've extended to six years I'm going to assume more and more people are taking that especially with what we say like $50 ,000 vehicles being bought now five years nine months five years nine months wait you got a dead on 69 months that's crazy dang that's actually insane good work on that that is now four in a row started slow but have picked up like crazy um that that was a very good guess very very good work all right moving on to the next next value this one is going to be a median not an average so scale it median u.s bonus amount and we'll get this within a thousand dollars
40:55and this is again median of everybody we can give two guesses we can give it a two guess range of plus minus a thousand just think about i'm gonna think out loud i'm gonna think out loud like yeah and this is for individual not for a household yeah this is this is individual and this is everybody because i i remember this is gonna be so outdated um i remember seeing like median household income was $80 ,000 or something, maybe five years ago. And so if we assume... I mean, you can never assume that wages are growing, but let's just, for the sake of it, say that wages are up, I don't know, 6%, 5%, 25%.
41:43So maybe I were like $100 ,000 median household income. I really I feel like I'm going to get so off on this because if we're going to assume a household income of 100, then we're going to assume like an individual income of like 50 to 70. So what's the appropriate bonus for that? And I have no idea what a normal bonus would be. Is it like 10 %? So I don't know, five grand? That is incorrect. And I will tell you it is too high. Oh. it's just getting depressing uh employers should uh okay what about what's my range uh plus or minus a thousand
42:34so you got a two thousand dollar range yeah I'm gonna like split the middle and say twenty five hundred that is you got it within the range it was seventeen hundred hmm yeah I mean at least it's something it's something but I think it was kind of a an interesting value um because to some degree it makes sense because the way I look at it there a lot a lot of jobs I don't know what this ratio looks like but I would even guess that most jobs don't give much of a bonus if a bonus at all I mean you might get like a gift card at the end of the year or something like that but it's not really like a separate paycheck you know that comes in for a bonus i feel like that's pretty normal for a lot of jobs um across the u.s so it kind of makes sense that the value is low but what makes me sad about it is the kind of bonus payouts that go to like you know chief positions like ceos and stuff the the kinds of bonuses not just dollar value but percentage bonuses that those high level positions will get is really staggering and i think you looking at the income and kind of median income was even more showing or telling is if we say median income is maybe 50 to 60, which feels probably about right, then, you know, the percentage that we're talking about is so low again, compared to these high level positions that often have 10, 20, 50 % or even more bonuses, um, every single year.
43:59It's, it's kind of staggering to see the contrast. Yeah. I mean, the, the credit card debt situation starts to make a little bit more sense. I understand the emotional idea that like, well, why put$1 ,500 into my$7 ,000 of credit card debt? It's not even going to make a difference in my life. So I understand keeping, you know, spending the bonus every year kind of a thing. I think that's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah, because if you don't, if that bonus for you doesn't feel like a not a life-changing amount of money, but like it can't even wipe out that much of anything like that definitely couldn't wipe out most people's car loan that they still owe.
44:40Definitely, obviously not a home loan or a mortgage that you still owe. And if you can't pay off your credit card debt, then suddenly the amount starts to feel meaningless. And yeah, you just go spend it because who gives a crap? Do you have like an idea if somebody's in credit card debt, they're trying to get out, what kind of things they can do with a bonus to still enjoy it, but also still feel like and making progress yeah the biggest the biggest thing for me is spend some of it please spend some of it but please don't spend all of it and so that range that percentage can look however you want it for me like a 50 50 or a 60 40 is even good for me so like 60 spend 40 save so i would say 40 of it 40 to 50 of it put it towards something some kind of savings if you have credit card debt then just put it towards that credit card debt don't even worry about putting it anywhere else Just pay off that crazy high interest debt.
45:31If you've only got other debt, like a car loan or a home loan or something like that, then just put that$400 into some kind of long-term savings. Could be Roth IRA, could be the high yield savings account, maybe a 401k if you decide to just put it somewhere else and then leave that 60 % to just go spend guilt-free on whatever the heck you want. And I think that, I think the goalposts in our minds move pretty easily. And so like, just to make the math easy, let's say you get a thousand dollar bonus. it's easy to go spend a thousand dollars if you feel like you have a thousand dollars but if you tell yourself hey you just got a extra you know free five hundred dollars that still feels like five hundred dollars that you could easily go spend you're not going to be that disappointed i think if you just kind of move the mindset and goalposts in your head then that still feels like quote-unquote free money out of nowhere while also feeling good that you put some of that free money towards somewhere else that'll help you a lot in the future and turn that 500 into five grand many years in the future.
46:27Yeah, I like that a lot.
46:32You could change your percentages to reward yourself if you set up a budget or something. Like if you've never budgeted before, because that would be the big force multiplier is if you went from never budgeting to actually budgeting, then you'll actually make progress. Maybe say, hey, I'll give myself an extra 300 bucks because I set a budget. yeah there's nothing wrong with that reward as long as you're making progress there's too many people out there like that credit card debt shows that we keep going back to too many people out there that aren't making any progress essentially and i'm not trying to be mean or rude to anybody it's just genuinely if all you're doing is piling debt not really saving much of anything then you're just not making progress and if all you do is set some sort of habit to build some progress then that's that's basically an infinite percent increase from where you were before and that is that's a massive shift yeah that's good all right moving on to question gotta do the math now would be 13 it's 12 actually 12 uh average amount spent on gas per month in the u.s and we're going to make this plus or minus 100 dollars average gas so again I'm in North Carolina.
47:45So it's, I think we're pretty close, maybe slightly under the national average. If you're in California, that's like they're over$7 a gallon regularly. It's absolutely insane. And to clarify, we're just talking about personal, well, not just personal commuting or personal usage. We're not including like, you know, long haul truckers or like, you know, people who travel a ton for their job or whatever. We're just talking about, you know, somebody who's using it for commuting or their own personal use what's my plus minus range 100 okay then i'm gonna say 200 bucks right on the money 200 that's pretty close to what um i probably spend maybe a little bit less because i shop at costco right right yeah costco sam's club those make a massive difference for gas honestly um yeah just a quick promotion for evs not actually but on a commercial promo, I spent about 45 bucks on electricity a month.
48:45Please consider it. That's all I got to say. Just consider it. That's fair. I think that's valid. Yeah. Stacks up. All right. Question number 14, actually 13. And we got here, this will be multiple choice. What is the average American's monthly grocery bill for a single person? Grocery bill for a single person. Options are$300, $400, $500 and$600. And I think I'll let you remove one of the options if you'd like. Yeah, please do. We will remove 500. So it's either three, four or 600 for a single person monthly grocery. Does this person shop at Whole Foods? This person exclusively shops at Air One.
49:35I don't know what that is. it's like the most expensive overpriced grocery store in the u.s i don't even i don't know if it's in new york or california or both but it's it's just like a stupid like a strawberry a single strawberry can be like 20 bucks they have they have it it's like in its own little case and everything and it's just a single strawberry stood no i'm not i'm not joking you can look up single strawberry i've forgotten how to spell heroin now single strawberry the suggestion is immediately air one and there it is in its own little case$19 for a single strawberry from air one yeah um no we're not we're talking about average so this oh so they don't they don't yeah i would not say that the average person shops at air one they're probably shopping it i don't even know what grocery store we have publics i don't think i think that's just southeast though this is very helpful so i'm gonna guess 400 yes 400 good work on an absolute tear right now this might even deserve some sort of reward even if it's not uh going to be an overall win because this is an impressive hot hand final last and final question and let's finish it strong percent of americans oh hold on pause so this is you know the three-point competition where there's a money ball at the end so this one counts as two corrects we've already bent the rules let's continue doing it i i like that idea final question worth two points we'll have to tally this up at the end because i i am no longer keeping track at this point very accurately last question money ball question percent of americans not invested in stocks at all 401k IRA anything just not touching the stock market whatsoever and we are talking plus or minus 10 % yeah so I've actually seen some pretty encouraging data on this I would say I don't know I'd probably put it close to I don't know can you give me plus or minus 6 % instead of 5 % Did I say plus or minus five?
51:50I meant to say plus or minus 10. I don't know what I actually said. Oh, plus or minus 10. Yeah, I'll take that. Plus or minus 10. Okay, okay. We could be eight, though. If eight seems fair to you, we could make it more difficult. I don't want to... I hate it. If the money ball was easy and you walked away and you just felt like, I finished it too easily. That was nothing. No, it's plus or minus 10. Plus or minus 10%. Okay. I'm going to guess the percentage that don't have. yes correct do not are not invested at all in stock um i would say because i have the plus or minus i would say 24 oh you're so close to getting in 38 really 38 that's shocking okay yeah i was surprised at how high it was truly as well these numbers just make my head hurt like i i don't know what the average american is it's yeah the average average american is very tough and i think it also contributes because if i mean if you imagine you're in a situation where you're not earning too much you're hardly getting a bonus you're in credit card debt the idea of putting any money towards anything that to you feels completely fake and just contrived like investing in stocks i can imagine you would just be like screw that i'm not gonna i'm not gonna worry about that um so to some degree i can kind of see how it makes sense but it's definitely it's still surprising and disappointing i wonder how much like people who aren't in stocks are into crypto for example that's a very good question that's a very good question i would i would bet that it's maybe about the same percentage like a third of people who don't believe in that are just like well I'll toss some money towards a gamble basically well I mean depends on what you're doing but in a lot of ways a gamble and feel like you can earn a lot more than you ever could in stocks yeah I wish I had the magazine with me but Bloomberg did a piece where they talked about like the younger generation and kind of how they saw their investments and everything and a shockingly high percent said that they consider their gambling like sports gambling budget or whatever as part of their as a component of their financial plan really yeah wow that's fascinating yeah i mean not obviously not to speak for my entire generation or anything but a lot of stuff feels hopeless may be a bit of a strong word but in a lot of ways hopeless because you we're kind of growing up in a time now where okay by the way homes are it's so expensive you're going to struggle to afford it.
54:35Groceries are going to be expensive. You're going to struggle to afford it. You're not going to be paid nearly as much in terms of scaling everything as anybody has in the past. Education's going to get more expensive and it's just like everything is more difficult and expensive to afford that you just feel like you need to kind of not take control, but just find something that'll just give you easy money to kind of bypass all of this, what feels impossible, all these impossible steps that are in the way. yeah i really like kind of i i feel like i feel this this idea or this emotion is like um being in a place where you feel like you can't afford real estate because it's objectively and from the data you can see it's so much more expensive than it was in the past when you compare it to incomes and things like that and so people looking at crypto or like, oh, if I can't get real estate in the real world, I'll get it in the digital world or in the metaverse, which is kind of like where crypto really started.
55:38And so there's a lot of that of like, well, I missed the real estate wave, but I want to be in the next wave kind of an idea. So what would you say, maybe just to wrap everything up? Because this went from a fun game show to like kind of depressing, you know. That's the thing. That's the thing about our finances, right? Like it doesn't just because we're all in the place maybe where we don't want to be doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. So you can make the changes. You can start building habits. So what would you say to somebody who maybe is in a less ideal financial situation than they would like to be?
56:13What kind of steps, what kind of mindset can they make now to be glad they did maybe five, 10 years down the road? yeah i think that it's i know i mentioned earlier in this episode but it's all about making some kind of progress because a lot of these negative statistics that we went over today a lot of them are heavily weighted and skewed and based on people who make no progress whatsoever and i'm not going to say that every single one of them that would be in their control but i would say a very large percent of them it would be to some degree in their control and if you are somebody that breaks that average norm and makes progress and has some habits, then you already bypass a lot, a lot of these statistics and jump into a much better place.
56:58That doesn't mean you're going to be a millionaire in five years or earn a crap ton of money or, you know, live in a penthouse suite or something like that. But it means that you can be in a much more comfortable financial situation in the longterm, you know, things like be able to retire, afford a house at some point in the future, you know, afford to have kids without struggling to pay for toys or food for them you know these kinds of life-altering financial situations can be much more achievable or achievable for the vast majority of people out there if you make some kind of progress and that progress can look like building some kind of a basic budget it can be putting some money into an investment account like a roth ira or into a high-old savings account so at least your savings is growing over time um the only thing i would steer away from for a lot of people in that kind of a situation if you're struggling is something like a 401k where your money is so locked up it's fantastic and it's powerful it can and it can earn you a lot of money in the long run but it's not going to help you do anything any of the life-changing things i just mentioned except for retire that's the only needle it moves everything else it's basically inaccessible to you unless you want to lose a lot of the money through fees and taxes and yada yada so just build some sort of a habit of having a budget build a habit or automation or whatever it is for you of putting money somewhere other than just cash or, you know, spending it on credit cards or whatever.
58:19And you will shift yourself into a different person with those habits. And again, you will, you will leap be leaps and bounds past a lot of these statistics, even with what feels like relatively small moves. If you're just consistent with it. I love that. I mean, go out there. Yeah. Just go out there and just, just make progress and be proud of yourself for making progress. Don't do it's impossible, but don't compare yourself to other people or the dollar amounts or exact percentages they're able to do. Just compare it to yourself and your past self. And if you're heading in the right direction, then trust me, you're beating a lot more people out there than you think.
58:54Just not the people you see on TikTok or YouTube or whatever that are bragging about their situation or comfortable sharing it. No, I love that. Well, thanks for having me on the show. I mean, uh, it was a fun time, even though I didn't win anything. I'm glad you had a good time even though you didn't win anything final score for Andrew 7 out of 14 which honestly is not that bad truthfully in the end I mean that's that's a 50 % on I mean for a three point contest that'd be a pretty decent percentage you know now that I got pretty close to being decent that last clank off the rim is really hurting that right that just stings that much more now yeah it could have been a lot higher but 7 out of 14 that's not that's not nothing to sneeze i think that's a good place to end up but uh in the comments below or feel free to email us as well if you prefer a picture instead of emoticon um something something drawn for you as a reward let us know what kind of score you got on on this uh on this who wants to be millionaire quiz and again be honest it's just the honor system i have no way to check whatsoever so be honest about what your score was but let us know what kind of score you got and don't forget to completely scrub away the uh tier two question about average American subscription spending per month.
1:00:05We're going to call that a wash and either an incorrect statistic or a very difficult statistic to get. But yeah, let us know your final scores. I hope you learned something from today. And again, as Andrew mentioned, I know a lot of these can lean in the very negative point of view and they are, but there's also a lot of things you can do to change that. So just today, go out, make a positive change for yourself, head in the right direction and be happy with that and wake up happy tomorrow that you did a good thing yesterday. So as always, remember, financial freedom is built one smart move at a time.
1:00:36Keep it simple. Keep it steady. And at any rate, I'll see you next time. Peace. The information contained is for general information and educational purposes only. It is not intended for a substitute for legal, commercial, and or financial advice from a licensed professional. Review our full disclaimer at einvestingforbeginners.com.
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From the publisher
In this special game-show episode of At Any Rate, Evan puts Andrew in the hot seat for a 15-question financial trivia challenge. From guessing 2026 401(k) contribution limits and average new car prices to exposing credit card score myths and gym membership waste, the guys test how well real-world finance metrics match consumer intuition.
Whether you're playing along in the car or looking to sanity-check your own budget, this episode combines surprising macroeconomic statistics with practical behavioral advice on managing debt, bonuses, and grocery budgets.
What You Will Learn
U.S. Credit Score Reality: Why the average American credit score (740) is significantly higher than most consumers assume.
Bear Market Horizons: Why the average bear market lasts only 9.6 months and how "recency bias" tricks investors into staying on the sidelines.
Credit Card Debt Myths: Why 48% of Americans carry a monthly balance—and why carrying debt does not improve your credit score.
The Cost of Driving: How new car prices ($49,000) have pushed average loan terms to a staggering 69 months.
The 60/40 Bonus Rule: How to enjoy workplace bonuses without blowing your long-term savings goals.
Stock Market Non-Participation: Why 38% of Americans hold zero stock investments and how to overcome financial paralysis.
Timestamps
0:00 – Game Show Intro & Rules: Who Wants to Be a Financial Millionaire?
3:42 – Tier 1: Average Credit Scores & 401(k) Contribution Limits ($24,500)
8:27 – New Car Price Realities ($49,000) & Average Credit Card Debt ($7,000)
12:55 – Bear Market Historical Length (9.6 Months) vs. Recency Bias
17:35 – Housing Market Leverage: Total Real Estate Value vs. U.S. GDP (4x)
19:11 – Tier 2: Emergency Savings Deficits (30% with $0 in Savings)
27:32 – Gym Membership Waste (67% Unused) & Wedding Costs ($34,200)
31:32 – Credit Card Myths: Why Carrying a Balance Does NOT Improve Credit
34:42 – Tier 3: New Car Loan Terms (69 Months) & Median U.S. Bonuses ($1,700)
40:47 – How to Manage Bonuses: The 60/40 Spending & Savings Rule
43:00 – Monthly Gas Costs ($200) vs. EV Charging Efficiency ($45/mo)
44:35 – Average Grocery Bills ($400/mo) & Luxury Grocery Markups
46:37 – Moneyball Question: Stock Market Non-Participation (38%) & Crypto/Gambling Traps
51:47 – Overcoming Financial Hopelessness: Building Habits & Incremental Progress
55:35 – Final Score
Resources Mentioned
The Value Spotlight Newsletter: https://einvestingforbeginners.com/value-spotlight-newsletter/
Free monthly budgeting spreadsheet: https://einvestingforbeginners.com/budget/
Email Evan: evan@einvestingforbeginners.com
Have questions or want your story featured? Email the show at newsletter@einvestingforbeginners.com or comment below. Your feedback shapes the podcast!
Remember, financial freedom is built one smart move at a time. Keep it simple, keep it steady, and at any rate, we’ll see you next time.
Timestamps are generated by artificial intelligence, and are not 100% accurate depending on the platform used for listening.
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