In short
The “Path to Confidence” series argues you must identify your investor “game” (401k set-and-forget, index/ETF, real estate/REITs, or stock trading vs investing) to avoid gambling and panic. It also stresses confidence during bear markets and warns against hype and scams.
Guests
No guest beyond hosts Stephen Morris and Andrew Sather. Backgrounds mentioned: Andrew has played poker in Las Vegas (World Series of Poker context) and has day-trading experience; Stephen emphasizes long-term investing and discusses stress-free investing. A listener (“Benji.net” from Argentina) asks about ETF-heavy portfolios.
Key claims
401k pros: automatic savings, low stress, difficult early withdrawals reduce mistakes; cons: limited access and steep penalties/taxes. Best order: take 401k match, then max IRA (Roth/traditional). Index/ETFs: low fees, hands-off diversification, good “learning safe place.” Real estate: not passive; leverage drives returns; REITs offer diversified exposure (including niche assets like cell towers/farms) with less direct work. Stock picking: only a small fraction can handle competitiveness, pain, and loneliness; traders focus on price/news/trends, investors focus on company fundamentals; day trading has high burnout and risk.
Notable examples
Poker “playing blackjack instead of poker” analogy; ETF tickers mentioned: SPY, VEA, EEM, QQQ; Sirius XM trading example; Tesla options loss after a peak; Coca-Cola as an easy-to-understand investor case; investment banks as harder; 2008 leverage risk; REIT examples like cell towers and farmland.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Importance of Knowing Your Game
0:32 to 1:28
Understanding the importance of recognizing your investor type to avoid losses.
“you need to invent some revolutionary product.”
Navigating Confidence in Investing
2:46 to 4:50
Discussion on the balance of confidence in investing and its risks.
“My name is Stephen Morris and he is Andrew Sather.”
Understanding the 401k Investor
4:50 to 7:22
Pros and cons of the 401k investment strategy and its accessibility.
“And if you don't have confidence, you'll probably sell out like everybody else.”
The Role of IRAs in Retirement Planning
7:22 to 11:20
Comparing 401k and IRA options for retirement investments.
“I would say on the con side of it is that money is not completely, but relatively inaccessible to you.”
Exploring ETF Investment Options
11:20 to 14:01
Discussing the benefits of ETFs and their impact on investment fees.
“Even if you are a stock picker and you work at a company where you get a 401k with a good match, still do that.”
Understanding Index Funds and ETFs
14:01 to 17:45
Learn the advantages of index funds and ETFs for beginner investors.
“But index funds just by and large have had the lowest fees for a few decades now.”
Prioritizing Cognitive Health
18:04 to 19:25
Explore the importance of tracking cognitive health as you age.
“See the Bitcoin disclosures at cash.app.legal.podcast.”
Real Estate as an Investment
19:32 to 23:04
Discuss the various perspectives on personal homes and real estate.
“So, and I know you might own a home before you start actually investing in the stock market, or you might flip it and start investing in the stock market before you own a home.”
Perspectives on Leveraging Real Estate
23:05 to 28:01
Understand the complexities and realities of investing in real estate.
“And I try to do everything like super tactical and you know, just weird.”
Understanding Real Estate Investment and REITs
28:01 to 33:31
Learn about the advantages of real estate investment and the concept of REITs.
“how you leverage, like Andrew was talking about earlier, depreciation can happen, but not to the quickness and extent that can happen in the stock market.”
Show all 19 chapters
Understanding Real Estate Investment and REITs
33:34 to 33:57
Learn about the advantages of real estate investment and the concept of REITs.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
The Competitive Nature of Stock Picking
33:58 to 42:01
Explore the mindset and challenges of being a stock picker in finance.
“Uh, and so I don't know, Andrew, I would say what this might cover maybe 5 % of the U S population.”
Understanding Business Structures
42:01 to 43:19
Explore the basics of business models and the insights gained from them.
“The seeing how different businesses work and just seeing a different side of the world, a different view of the world.”
The Thrill of High-Stress Environments
43:20 to 47:14
Discuss the enjoyment and challenges of working under stress and competition.
“Um, I, I can't stand when people let me win because they're trying to be nice to me.”
The Emotional Toll of Stock Picking
47:15 to 49:53
Delve into the psychological impacts and emotions tied to stock trading decisions.
“And then you can try to get sympathy from people who are like, don't play this game.”
Differences Between Traders and Investors
49:54 to 56:00
Learn the key distinctions between stock traders and long-term investors.
“You mentioned liking to imagine the future and the possibilities.”
The Reality of Day Trading vs. Long-Term Investing
56:00 to 1:00:10
Explore the challenges and misconceptions surrounding day trading compared to long-term investing.
“And plus, day traders burn out way faster than investors do.”
Finding Your Investment Lane
1:00:10 to 1:03:20
Understand the importance of identifying your investing style and sticking to it.
“We talk about all the time on this podcast, the path to profitability.”
Action Steps for Confident Investing
1:03:20 to 1:06:30
Learn practical steps to identify your investor archetype and improve focus on investments.
“No, I'm going to take your two cents and cash them in the bank.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Stephen Morris:If you sit down at a poker table, but you think you're playing blackjack, you're probably going to lose a lot of your money. The stock market isn't any different. If you don't know what game you're playing, if you don't know what type of investor you are, you're not going to be making any money because you're just going to be gambling it all away. No matter how great of advice you get, no matter how awesome the companies are, you're going to lose because you're playing the wrong game. So today, Andrew and I are going to be talking about just that, figuring out what type of investor you are. So buckle up.
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2:39Your path to financial freedom. Start now.
2:42Stephen Morris:And welcome back to the Investing for Beginners podcast, everybody. My name is Stephen Morris and he is Andrew Sather. The, I don't know, Andrew, if you had the chance, because I mentioned in the open about poker, if you had the chance, would you play World Series of Poker? Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what the buy-in for that is? I have no clue. I thought it was like 10 grand or something. That's not too bad. well the problem is the last couple tournaments i've been in like i have one tournament i lost so quickly that my wife felt bad and she's like here go go join the next tournament i lost just as quickly the second time so it's like i yeah i felt pretty defeated that's my last tournament experience that was several years ago so was it like a local like tournament or no i was in the thing no we were in Vegas oh okay wow yeah playing with the sharks man but yeah so I got creamed but I you know as I learn more and more every day about the stock market and investing and what we do the the more I realize that that's kind of what we do initially when we start to learn is we just kind of dump it, jump in the deep and not knowing what sharks were swimming with to begin with.
4:08Stephen Morris:And so, uh, Andrew and I are starting a new series that we're going to be working through over the next couple of months called, uh, uh, your path to confidence. It is my belief and Andrew can share his, uh, but it is my belief that it is just as dangerous to be not confident in your investments as it is to be overconfident in your investments. And we need to find that common ground. But before we do any of it, we need to just get people to where they're comfortable investing their money. And so that's what we're starting with today. I don't know, Andrew, what do you think? Do you think it's just as dangerous as overconfidence?
4:54We haven't really seen the effects of that recently because the market has just been going up and up and up, but that is when your confidence is tested, when the market goes through a bear market and stocks crash and people panic. And if you don't have confidence, you'll probably sell out like everybody else. And then you really should have never invested in the first place if that's the case.
5:17Stephen Morris:Right. And so just jumping straight into it, then Andrew, the first archetype that I kind of came up with is basically your 401k set it and forget it type investor. I feel like most people, at least in the U.S., this is probably going to be their category. They just give their company, or I'm sorry, they give their money to their company who has a funds manager and does all that work for you, so you don't even need to understand it. Why would you say the pros versus cons to the 401k investor are? a definite pros is it's a fantastic savings vehicle and because it comes out before your paycheck you kind of forget about it and so you just learn to live with whatever's left on your paycheck i don't know why that's the case i don't know maybe somebody's done some academic study about why we just seem to always just spend through our paychecks um but by deferring it and having some of it go to the 401k.
6:25You don't have to look at CNBC. You don't have to turn on Bloomberg TV. You don't have to do anything, but you're still participating in the growth of the economy. And that's been a really wonderful thing, not just for the last 10 years or 20 years since technology has really taken a hold, but for the last 100 plus years. When you have a 401k, you are invested alongside the US economy, the global economy. So it's just a fantastic way to accumulate wealth. And because it happens in the background, we don't think about it. And also because it's very difficult to draw out early, we just tend to leave it alone, which takes away so many mistakes that investors do make, myself included.
7:17A lot of those mistakes are just eliminated through a 401k.
7:21Stephen Morris:The is a very good point. I would say on the con side of it is that money is not completely, but relatively inaccessible to you. And Evan's done several episodes about about this exact topic. I'll link those in the show notes for you if you want to listen to those a little deeper. but I would say that that is a huge downside is worst case scenario happens that money is now tied up it's going to take me several weeks at best to get my hands on that money and when I do it's going to come with very, very, very steep penalties and taxes so I mean to me that is a huge downside Would you say that, so we'll say you as a 401k investor get a, what's normal, 5%, 6 % company match into your 401k.
8:33Stephen Morris:And I do not, my company does not have a match. Would you say that I should still invest in a 401k even though my company doesn't match it? I mean, if it was me personally, I would leverage the IRA, the individual retirement accounts before leveraging a 401k. And I know this is something that Evan has talked about too, because we talked about it recently, but definitely take the match on your 401k and then prioritize like a Roth IRA where you can get those tax savings, but you also have the flexibility to your point, Stephen of like, um, if you need to withdraw money early, I've, I've had to do that from a Roth before.
9:15And it was really straightforward. It's super straightforward. Um, to your point, like with a 401k, you gotta, you probably got to call HR department. Who's going to redirect you to the fund manager. Who's going to probably redirect you three other places. And then I almost guarantee you're going to have to wait for like a paper check in the mail or something. It's just going to be so painful. But having like a Roth IRA, Roth IRA also has a lot of exceptions. So like if you're pulling early to buy your first home, for example, that can be a way to get by some of the penalties that you usually get for withdrawing early.
9:55So yeah, I mean, I would just say Roth IRA or traditional IRA, getting the IRA maxed first and then 401k second, unless you have a match and getting the match absolutely first, because that's free money. Do you see any other pros to the 401k leave it alone approach that we didn't cover?
10:20Stephen Morris:I would say the, for me anyway, the absolute number one pro is the complete lack of stress that comes with it. As you pointed out, you don't even see that money. It's gone before it ever hits your bank account. So there's no stress tied to it. You don't have to sit down and do research. If you don't want to watch the news, you don't have to watch the news. If Microsoft does something really dumb, you don't care because you don't even tip. I would say most people don't even know what actual companies or ETFs or 401ks are investing in. So just the complete lack of stress because it can be very doing, you know, doing what you and I do.
11:09Stephen Morris:It's very stressful sometimes. And that's okay that we're okay taking that stress on, but a lot of people aren't. And so So I would say definitely if you are a stress adverse person, definitely 401k, especially if it has a good match, you can't pass. Even if you are a stock picker and you work at a company where you get a 401k with a good match, still do that. Like Andrew said, that's free money. But I don't know. Is there any con that you can think of to it other than not having the money access? Well, I mean, yeah, as we go deeper down this onion, I think you find that you can generally make more money the more hands-on you get.
12:00Not make more money as a guarantee, but have the potential to make more money, which becomes more and more meaningful the more money you have.
12:09Stephen Morris:I would agree completely. The more experience you get, the more knowledge you gain. And like Andrew said, it's obviously nothing is a guarantee in life, but you definitely have the earning potential is compounding, I would say, rather quickly. Especially when you get into the next topics, which the next one is going to be the index fund ETF pursuits, which we got a comment that I want to address on Spotify, Andrew, from. Mr. Benji.net. He asked, what do you think about having a ETF mostly portfolio such as SYP, VEA, EEM, or QQQ? I'm just starting at investing and your podcast is really helpful and motivating.
13:02Stephen Morris:Cheers from Argentina. Well, cheers right back at you, Benji, from the US. I don't know, Andrew, what are your thoughts on the ETF investor? I love it. And outside of 401k investing, like you said, the next step is kind of taking control of those excess funds. And ETF is probably the best scenario for majority of people, I'd say a vast majority of people. because like the 401k, it has all the avoidance of stress. But one of the benefits, the Roth IRA is a benefit, which you can buy ETFs in. I kind of covered that already. But the other benefit to indexing is those tend to be lower fee. And so I know the industry, the 401k industry, is getting better about fees.
13:57But some of the funds, it all depends on what company you're at, what fees, what funds they're investing in. But index funds just by and large have had the lowest fees for a few decades now. And that's why they've become so popular. So it's your Vanguard's, it's your SPY, it's your whoever else, the third one I'm blanking on, but all of those index providers have gotten so, so popular because their fees are just It's low like it should be because, I mean, how hard is it to buy a basket of stocks, right? And so that savings and fees actually compounds over a long time, and it can become thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings just from that little 1 % fee due to the power of compounding.
14:51So by far the cheapest, easiest way to get money from either my brokerage account or my Roth IRA into the market well diversified in a very similar hands-off approach. What other pros or cons do you see for indexing? So the reason, and I want your feedback on this, the reason I have it set as number two on the list here is because I feel like this is a good nest for
15:25Stephen Morris:people that, okay, yeah, they have the 401k, but they see what we're talking about, the earning potential. and they want to start learning and getting into that. And I would say that the biggest pro for me for the index slash ETF pursuits are that it's a good safe place for you to start learning how to use a brokerage, how to pull the trigger on buying a stock, how to set up your automations, how to fund your brokerage account, how to all these things you have to learn. It's a good safe way to do it without the stress of also having to read a 10K and listen to 20 million earnings calls and decipher all the insane acronyms that are used and puns that are used and all the crap that goes along with researching companies.
16:17Stephen Morris:It's being done for you. So this is a great safe approach. So Benji, I definitely agree with you. your learning good safe place as you start to learn the market and eventually learn how to flap your wings eventually spread them and fly yeah 100 totally agree i love that idea i kind of wish i had taken that approach initially which i didn't because i jumped in feet first and i feel like it was the shallow end from 100 feet up. So, yeah. The more I've gotten to learn about Bitcoin and start to dip my toes with it, the more I realize some of my preconceived notions were incorrect. For example, I don't have to be all Bitcoin or all stocks.
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19:30Stephen Morris:So the next on the list is real estate. So, and I know you might own a home before you start actually investing in the stock market, or you might flip it and start investing in the stock market before you own a home. But I guess my first question with real estate injury, do you consider your personal home as an investment? Because I do not. uh i i don't but like if we were to be practical about it it is part of our net worth like you can totally tap it and it's not uncommon for people in retirement to downsize and then tap that equity so as much as you might love the home you're in and be proud of it um if you have kids and they have kids and you know things can change and so it's a great asset that you can definitely leverage later on in your life okay uh i agree um it definitely is an investment and like you said it is definitely tied to your net worth what why why do you kind of not look at it as as a personal investment like in your portfolio you i guess because i don't want to sell it so um you know there's just a lot of emotional attachment to it um something my wife and i bought together so like even if you came and and offered me like twice what we paid for it at my front door right now i would turn it down you know um and so that for better for worse like whether the the the home prices in my area go up or down.
21:19It's kind of cool to check in or whatever, but it doesn't affect how I view this asset. So I don't look at it the same way I look at my stock portfolio. And I don't know if you feel similarly or you take a different approach.
21:34Stephen Morris:No, mine's a little bit different. I don't look at it as an investment in my portfolio because I bought it with a different intention. So I bought it with the intention of using it and living in it and I didn't buy it to make money um and for me that is an important emotional separation uh because if I buy something with the intent of it making me money um you know I'm sure you you've had like you know your wife killed a spider and now it's a stain on the wall uh like you know if like this is meant to make me money and that happens i am livid because now now you're hurting hurting my wallet here stop it um and i know that's a dumb example but but you get my point um i start looking at it completely different and i don't to me that would just add another level of stress and I don't want that in my home so um even and it's even gotten to the point where I've I've considered like going your route and getting a workspace for myself because I I kind of don't even like having my my office tied to my home anymore um because I've noticed it's starting to bleed into my life outside of my work and that is not okay.
23:04Stephen Morris:So that's kind of why I take that approach. But that's just me. I'm weird. And I try to do everything like super tactical and you know, just weird. We'll stick with I'm weird. Well, let's say this. Let's say you had a stock in your portfolio that got so big it was like 90 % of your portfolio. You know, like you would just, you would have to sell that for peace of mind, right? 90 % of your portfolio. So if your house does the same thing, you wouldn't necessarily do, you wouldn't necessarily sell it because to your point, it has a different function. Right. So when I say a real estate investor, I'm thinking of someone buying REITs, someone buying physical property, or someone buying commercial property.
24:05Stephen Morris:Have you ever personally looked into real estate yourself? I know you've bought REITs before, but have you ever looked into actually owning property before? Not really. No. Why?
24:25Because I understand how the money is made. So over the long term, if you look at U.S. residential, for example, it's grown around 5%, 6 % a year. If you go back to 1940s or whatever. So it's been a great asset. But the way investors in real estate have made 10%, 15%, 20%, even though the real estate itself only appreciates by five, is by using leverage. And I've just... I come from a pretty conservative background money-wise, a pretty big aversion to debt just in general. And so the idea of leveraging, while I understand the logic behind it and I understand the numbers behind it and I understand that debt is not debt collateral has different value I just can't get around the idea of building wealth through leverage
25:27Stephen Morris:no I like that I can't remember his name he's a big anti-debt guy shoot Kawasaki no no no bald glasses used to be on the radio. Dave Ramsey. There we go. He's on the radio. Is he? Yeah. He, if I remember his story correctly, he did that. He got into real estate investing, did it all through leverage, and that ended up bankrupting him somehow. Yeah. And so that's where his whole anti-debt building wealth without debt mantra came from. And I could totally be wrong on that. I'm not like an avid Dave Ramsey follower, obviously, if I forgot his name. But I'm pretty sure that was his story. And so I totally understand that.
26:30Stephen Morris:I think for me, the reason I am not huge into the real estate side of investing is I bought into initially like the passive income side of it and it is not passive income. Anyone that tells you it's passive income, they're a flat out lying to your face because it is not, it is no more passive than what you and I do. Um, it is a lot of work. Even if you have a property manager doing a lot of you, it's still a lot of work for you too. like because you have to you have to approve everything you have to go over budgets you have to make budgets you have there's all kinds of stuff you have to do and so yeah it's definitely not passive i bought into that and i severely regret it it is not passive at all um but i also see it as a great, easy to understand investment.
27:35Stephen Morris:It is not complicated at all. And, you know, while I argue that the stock market isn't complicated either, it's just made to appear that way. Real estate's so straightforward, you know, a child could do it. And so I see that as a very easy learning curve to start getting your feet wet. And I would say one other upside to owning real estate, as long as you're careful with how you leverage, like Andrew was talking about earlier, depreciation can happen, but not to the quickness and extent that can happen in the stock market. um based on what you saw and experienced do you think there's a type of person that would find like a type of skill set that would that would do well in in them embarking on something like that definitely i think a carpenter or construction worker type person definitely might take a look at real estate um not saying you can't do stocks you definitely can but part of my frustration was that i don't know how to like i know how to do basic repair but you know if a roof needs fixed i don't know how to put on a roof like i don't i don't know like i can hang i can hang sheet rock but you know if an entire wall needs to be fixed or what what do they call it re-leveled they have a word for it i don't remember what it is but um you know i don't know how to do that stuff and so like if you're in a construction type job or just handy with your tools and know know that type of stuff electricity i freaking hate electricity um you couldn't pay me enough to be an electrician absolutely not so stuff like that like if you're okay with that kind of stuff definitely this might be a place where you would be very comfortable and call home because that takes a lot of the pressure off yeah i love that especially if you enjoy it too then it's like win-win yeah right so i don't know but i i definitely do like i love real estate um without the work which is why i like reeds um so uh i don't know andrew you want to explain what a reed is just real real quickly yeah kind of uh a company that is investing in a bunch of properties and doing it in a way that's tax efficient.
30:27And so when you invest in a REIT, you get a part of that income that they are generating from these properties. But it functions as an investor, functions very similar to a stock. So just like stocks, they have tickers. You really are analyzing the stock in a lot of ways because there's a 10K, they have earnings reports, but it's all around real estate. and there's a lot of niches. And so that makes it interesting that you can really, in a very passive way, I mean, you put the work in to figure out which REITs you like, but in a passive way, you can get some exposure to some different types of real estate.
31:07And I was blown away when I learned that they have cell phone tower REITs and things like that. There's just so many different types of real estate other than just commercial residential.
Read the full transcript
31:21Stephen Morris:one i own is a farm farmland or i used to when i sold it but uh that they have farm they have cell tower that literally if you want to buy it's not the sears tower anymore i don't remember what it's called now but and i'm not saying it has a reit but uh if it did you you could effectively own a portion of the Sears Tower or the Empire State Building or whatever. And that's how they work. But the beauty of it is you get to own whatever real estate it is, commercial, farm, sell, residential, you get to own property without having to do all the work to maintain it. That is solely the company that owns, that manages the REIT, that is their job.
32:11Stephen Morris:and like Andrew said, they're using your money to buy properties rather than over leverage and get into danger. Well, I know they still use leverage quite a bit. That's why I said over leverage. But when you look at a lot of property managers, that's a dangerous game, man, because you get into that danger of over leveraging your company. And then 2008 happens. How many property management companies crashed and burned hard during 2008? So that's the danger you get in. And 2008 is a really hard thing to predict and see coming. And with a REIT, it's literally, if it happens, you lose a little bit of money.
33:05Stephen Morris:and that's the worst of it. So you get to play the game without all the consequences and stuff. That's me. I think REITs are the coolest thing in the world. I absolutely love them. But yeah, anyway. So anything else on property management or real estate before we move on? No, I think that covered it really well. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
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34:09Stephen Morris:audiobook now so next is what we do Andrew the stock pickers of the world um and Andrew made a joke I don't know if he wants me to say this on air but Andrew made a joke a while back about we're actually our job is to actually try to convince people not to do what we do um because it takes a very special mindset and tolerance for pain. Yeah. Um, to do what we do. Uh, and so I don't know, Andrew, I would say what this might cover maybe 5 % of the U S population. It's hard, hard to put a number on it. Um, I was funny, like we've reflected about this a lot and, um, when you were talking earlier in this episode and you're talking about like the stress and like being stress-free and like you have to want the stress like i grew up watching kobe bryant like i i grew up in in like southern california so like stress is like a welcome like bring it on you know what i mean like let's stay at the gym we're gonna be up at 4 a.m you know before the 9 p.m.
35:25game and we're going to get a thousand shots in and then we're going to go tonight and dominate on our home court like that's kind of the mentality i've had growing up i don't know that's because i grew up near la but um i i i wonder if that is a maybe some people could argue that's a deficiency and doesn't help you become a stock picker um but but i think it can it can be a superpower because almost like that I won't say driven by fear but you don't want to underperform so it's a very competitive environment and the reason why we say not a lot of people can do it is because it's really super competitive like you're competing against literally some of the brightest and most well funded minds in the world so it's very hard to win even though you can get lucky like I did first starting out and you start to think that like, oh, this is easy.
36:26But just a lot of it's timing and like playing poker, you start to realize when you're not a shark, you don't realize you're not a shark and then you get your lunch eaten and then it's like, okay, back to the drawing board. So you have to have that tolerance for pain and working hard should be like second nature to you, in my opinion.
36:50Stephen Morris:Absolutely. I agree. I was going to like you eventually got there because at first I thought you were analyzing it wrong, but I agree with you completely. It's that absolute competitive desire to just want to win. At least for me, that's the case. And I know you're a very competitive person too. so what was it like for you do what? what was it like for you kind of wading into the arena and then when did you realize it's like wow this is actually pretty competitive I knew just watching you guys I knew it was competitive I knew what I was getting into but you guys make it look so easy that that i was like oh okay this ain't bad like i'm gonna do this and then like like i said it was like jumping from 100 feet into the shallow end so i felt like a pancake for for the better part of maybe a year year and a half um but once you get past that initial learning curve i you know i I would, and by no means am I comparing this to the NFL.
38:08Stephen Morris:Okay. But I'm going to compare this to the NFL. Um, so, I mean, we, we hear like the biggest transition from, or the hardest part about going from college to the NFL is the speed and raw strength that a professional player has versus a college player. and i think that that's kind of a similar uh feeling i felt uh jumping into this arena is like you guys all have your your methods you have your knowledge your wisdom your you know your screeners your your uh preferred uh formulas for for your uh oh good grief i'm drawing a blank um oh dcfs you know you have you have all that stuff figured out and then here i come just with my my welcome basket of goodies thinking that i'm i'm good and i'm not and so but i mean that that's just the nature of the game and you know i'm an avid believer of the quickest way to learn is just to jump in and go figure it out.
39:23Stephen Morris:Um, and, and that's what we've done. And so, I mean, and I mean, that's what you did in the beginning. Anyways, you just started doing, trying to figure it out. And so I think if you have that mindset, if you are a competitive person by nature, if you have a very high tolerance for stress slash pain, um, you potentially could do well as a stock picker. If you do not check any of those boxes, I would say think very long and hard about it before you wander into this water. Because like Andrew said, you may get lucky, but then eventually you're going to get your lunch eaten by the bigger shark. And that never, ever feels good.
40:11No. And it still happens. You know, you got to constantly defend your lunch at all times.
40:21Stephen Morris:That reminds me of like growing up with my two older brothers who are way older than me. The closest is 10 years. And like, of course, like little nine, 10 year old me is getting beat up by my older brothers all the time. They're always stealing my food, always taking my stuff. Nothing I could do about it. People are like, you know, why do you love to fight so much? And why do you go to the gym? Because I grew up getting beat up by two older brothers. So I don't know if that helps you understand me better. Why do you think the biggest pro of being a stock picker is for you? Yeah. It's super intellectually fascinating.
41:11and depending on what time period you happen to be doing it, it can be even more fascinating. Like right now in 2026 with the entire economy being reshaped by AI, it's a scary time and it's a depressing time for a lot of people and there's a lot of change, but also it feels almost like a reset and it feels like we've had several resets just in the last 10 years. And it just opens opportunities for people who are working hard, preparing, looking for the opportunities. And so, yeah, part of the journey is just the intellectual challenge of it.
42:01The seeing how different businesses work and just seeing a different side of the world, a different view of the world. I remember being younger and going to a McDonald's or something and being like, oh, well, this is McDonald's. They're a huge empire.
42:22It's just a small piece of a big pie. But then learning like, oh, actually, this is a franchise model. And there are real people with small business owners who own the local McDonald's or the local Domino's or the local Subway. So you just get insights into how things really work in the business world. And to me, that's also fun too. And then if you like history, you can go down that rabbit hole, which I've enjoyed doing, of learning about how did Steve Jobs do what he did, how did the founder of Nike, how did Elon, all these fascinating characters that have done really, really extraordinary things.
43:01And in a lot of ways, it's inspiring too. When you see people who have just innovated and created lots and lots of wealth through their entrepreneurial energies, it can be invigorating just to feel like you're part of the process when you buy a stock. So those are just a few of the things that come to mind. What jumps out to you initially?
43:24Stephen Morris:uh for the pro side for me it's the the honestly it's the the stress uh i i work well under stress i my entire adult life is a background of just highly stressful environments and if you want to see me perform at my absolute a game give me like an impossible task with like an hour to do it and i'll get it like i'll find a way and that's how i learned to thrive in that environment so i enjoy stress uh like i said i'm a weird person um
44:12let me rephrase that i enjoy stress in my work when i'm at home relaxing no i don't want stress
44:21Stephen Morris:in that environment but when i'm in the environment where i expect there to be stress i do enjoy that and i love the the mental games i get a play with inside my own mind um to me that that's fun i'm a very imaginative person so i love to sit and read um um the ceo of of xyz said this and you get to sit there and like okay let's let's play the game and let's try to figure out what you're saying without saying it um and i i love doing that um so i mean it definitely fits my personality uh i'm a super competitive person like you i I love to win. I love to, to fight for my win. Um, I, I can't stand when people let me win because they're trying to be nice to me.
45:19Stephen Morris:Like, no, like, you know, I don't care if I'm fighting Mike Tyson. Let's go, bro. I know you're going to knock me out. Just let's, let's go. I'm going to make you wearing it as much as I can. Uh, no, I'm just kidding. I would crush Mike Tyson.
45:35Somebody send this to him. Uh,
45:40Stephen Morris:And BJJ, not boxing. Oh, now you bring that out. No, I'm kidding. But no, I couldn't imagine getting punched by Mike. That would hurt so bad. But no, I love that aspect of it. I love how just mentally challenging it is. I thought once I left the military, I would never find anything that challenged me like it did. and this work definitely is incredibly challenging so I mean and it has its good days and it has its bad days and that that would be my con is it is a very lonely space you better be okay picking yourself up after you get knocked down because it is hard to find good people to to be there with you.
46:34Stephen Morris:And chances are, if you get knocked down, they just got knocked down too. So they got to pick themselves up too. Um, so I mean, it's a lonely, lonely space. Uh, and it is very important for me to make sure I have people around me that can support me and encourage me. Um, and I couldn't imagine doing this without you guys. Like that would be horrible. Like trying to do this alone. Yeah. That would like, didn't when I started day trading initially, it was just me. That was not fun. So yeah, that would be my con. Yeah. And then you can try to get sympathy from people who are like, don't play this game.
47:23And from their point of view, they're like, you're just, you have money and you're trying to make more money. like what is the problem? What is the issue? You know what I mean? And it's weird how much our egos can get tied up into this. And to me, I think that's a big con of stock picking. And something that I struggle with is tying up my ego to my decision making and then tying the results of that decision making to my ego, my self-worth, and all of those things. It's super competitive. We do all the work. We do all the research. We make all the best discretion with our choices as we can. But at the end of the day, it's still the real world.
48:05Business is just inherently uncertain. And so that's what makes it very difficult as well. One of the reasons I came to fall in love with baseball again is you see this in baseball a little bit where these hitters will just go through these slumps. you know and uh i was watching joey vado he's like a legendary hitter from he played for cincinnati um and he was like at a certain point when you're you hit a slump that is so you hit so low on this slump that at a certain point you just have to start playing baseball again if that makes sense like you've done all the things like try to fix your swing you tried to fix the mechanics you've tried to fix nutrition like all the details and then there's still like a mental block.
48:57And so at a certain point, you just kind of have to put yourself in context of like, I'm playing a game and I'm playing baseball and just go out there and play baseball like I did when I first started for the love of the game. And I think some of that can happen to stock pickers as well, because you've reminded me a lot, Stephen, and Warren Buffett has said it, like no investor is going to outperform all the time throughout his entire career. There are going going to be bouts of underperformance. And because the stock market is such a long-term game, that underperformance can drag with you for a while.
49:33And so that makes it tough when you are pouring in a lot of time and energy into something and not seeing results. So I would say that managing that is definitely a con. But at the same time, it comes with the romanticism of being a stock picker. You mentioned liking to imagine the future and the possibilities. I think stock pickers a lot of times are romantic dreamers in a way where to be optimistic and to buy stocks when everybody else is selling them, you're really envisioning a brighter future and a different future than everybody else is thinking about. And that's usually when the best money is made.
50:18so um how can you not be romantic about stock picking sometimes it takes that blind what people perceive as dumb optimism to pick some of the best stocks in the world no i love that i i'm
50:36Stephen Morris:not even going to try to add anything to it i don't want to taint it we're just going to move on to the final piece. And that is, you know, if you fall into that category of, I want to be a stock picker, I'm a stock picker, then you have more work to do because now you need to break it down even further. What kind of stock picker are you? And there are many types. We're only going to cover the, I hate saying the main two. It's just, I feel like these are the most talked about right now on social media. So they seem like the main two, but that is a trader versus an investor. Before I started, Andrew, I didn't know what the difference was.
51:25Stephen Morris:Why is there a difference between a stock trader and a stock investor? Well, since you went through this journey, I think you're actually best equipped to answer it. Okay. Fair enough. I mean, I didn't. Fair enough. Anyway, moving on. Yeah. A stock trader is someone they are looking at straight numbers. They're looking at algorithms. They're looking at trends. They're looking at news. They're looking like the, then when I was a day trader, the news was the very first thing I checked in the morning. What big moves the companies made while I, or did companies make while I was sleeping? Um, and then I stay glued to the news all day long because news drives stock price.
52:21Stephen Morris:And literally all a day trader cares about is the stock price. Um, for us, for investors, it is almost the exact opposite. The last thing I think an investor should be doing is looking at the stock price because stock prices often lie about the quality of a company. And so we care about what the company is. We care about who the CEO is. I bought and sold companies trying to think. I made some good money trading Sirius XM for a while. so ask me who the ceo of sirius xm is andrew yeah who is he no clue ask me what he is no don't bother no clue like i know nothing about sirius i know what they do because who doesn't but that's it like i was watching i was just watching the the the algorithms and my screeners and all that stuff and so the the an investor does the exact opposite they did They get into every square.
53:29Stephen Morris:It's almost like they're investigators. They're digging into the nitty gritty of every dark corner of a company trying to figure out what makes the company tick. What makes them different? What's going to make them valuable? What makes them make money? What's going to make them profitable in the long run? Some companies, it's really easy to do that. I will use Coca-Cola as an example. Other companies, it's really hard to do that. Investment banks, we'll use them as the example. And so that is the playground an investor plays in. And that, I think, is why investors make more money in the long run than traders.
54:19Stephen Morris:Because a trader has one bad day, they're wiped out. And they got to start over. A lot of times, because everything with an investor is happening so slow. And that's a great example. A trader, like when I was day trading, I was paying, I don't remember how much I was paying, but I was paying top tier to get my internet as fast as humanly possible. Because that split second can cost you money. that it takes the lag from you clicking sell or buy to it getting to the server to it registering with your brokerage that you want to sell and and i've seen it before not to me personally but to other traders where where they sold and it took a split split second maybe a you know energy spike or something happened and it lagged their internet down and they lost thousands of dollars for that split second and so um everything in day trading is happening so freaking fast and even if you're doing swing trading or something something that's a little bit slower like it's happening fast and with investing it's happening so slow a lot of times we can see things coming or in at least hindsight should have seen them coming.
55:47Stephen Morris:And it gives us time to maneuver, to operate, to plan, and to do things. And I think that's ultimately why investors tend to make more money in the long run because they have that extra time that a day trader does not. And plus, day traders burn out way faster than investors do. I mean, Warren Buffett, how old is he, like 94 and just retired? Like, show me a 94-year-old day trader, please.
56:23Stephen Morris:I'm just picturing that in my head.
56:29Stephen Morris:I mean, it is just such a hard game to play. And the burnout is real. And the good day traders will tell you that 1 % survive. And that's not a joke. Like, it is a tough, tough game. Now, if you are super pattern-oriented, if you recognize patterns like no other, day trading, you might take a look at it. Because that's really, I would say, at least one of the top core assets that a good day trader has is they have like above average pattern recognition. They can look at the candlesticks, see the pattern, and then from that be able to predict it. And so if that's you, take a look at it. But what I will tell you is when you go to learn trading, do not buy the$99 course.
57:27Stephen Morris:That is a scam. It is stupid. Don't waste your money. You're better off taking that$100, putting it in a brokerage, and just playing around until you figure it out. If you want to pay someone to learn, then there are some out there. I don't know if I can mention them, so I won't. But there are some out there that are five, six, seven grand that are solid educations that are going to set you up for success. and the people that run them have a genuine love for what they do. They're not just trying to, they already make millions doing off the trading. They don't, this course is just to help people that might have the ability to do it.
58:19Stephen Morris:The, you know, that's not what's making them money. So I would highly, highly recommend that that be the course you take. Otherwise just take your money, throw it in a brokerage and go play till you figure it out um don't don't buy into the hype whether it's investing or um trading because the hype is all garbage um it is not easy to become a millionaire through investing it is not easy to become a millionaire through trading and all these people that make it seem like, oh yeah, I wake up, I go read the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. I make a few investments and then I go sit on my mega yacht all day.
59:09Stephen Morris:Bull freaking crap. When was the last time you did that, Andrew? Like bull crap. Like, no. Like, you might be sitting outside by the pool, but you have a stack of 10Ks in your lap or your a laptop or an iPad reading 10 Ks or listening to earnings calls. Like it is not a nine to five. It is a lot of work and the same for traders. It is not, I wake up in the morning, I day trade for a couple hours, make my money and then go to the gym. You know, the successful day traders are working 12 to 14 hours a day. It is not this glamorous life that you see on social media. it is all a lie to try to scam you out of your money.
59:50Stephen Morris:I hate to be doom and gloom, but that's just the cold, hard truth of it. The real world is much harder and it is, it is much, how do I say that? It is not forgiving. And so just please, please, for the love of God, do not buy into the hype. I'm done. I'm off my soapbox. Sorry. That was great. Yeah. I completely agree. I mean, long-term investing has a type of compounding that you just don't get with day trading and that's a huge advantage yeah definitely I mean I didn't even cover compound interest I mean yeah you know the Einstein called it the eighth wonder of the world so I mean is it eight yeah there's seven wonders okay I had a brain fart there for a second but no yeah i mean compound interest is another huge factor into into investing and why um the i think investors come ahead but but to the time man like you should try day trading one time just take a month and just try it and yeah and just oh you did yeah oh so you know what i'm talking about than just how fast it is yeah well so i don't want to like sidebar us but basically when tesla topped in 2020 i think you can still see the little tick mark when i bought it at the very peak and then it immediately like fell and i was like because i think i did it with options too um and i was like man this is terrible i had like 29 days of profits and I wiped it out on day 30 or something.
1:01:34I was keeping a journal just for fun.
1:01:40Stephen Morris:It is fun. I love day trading. It is such an adrenaline rush. It's fun. We talk about all the time on this podcast, the path to profitability. How's a company going to be profitable? That's the same thing I saw with trading versus investing. For me, the path to profitability is in investment um now with that said there are some very very wealthy traders out there very wealthy and i take nothing from them um it's just they are a they are hard to find i think it's and it's much easier i think to find six what we would consider successful investors that you've never heard of um then then it will be to find successful traders um so yeah that's my two cents on it um i don't hate either i do both um one i do for a career the other i do for fun um but you you definitely have to figure out where you fit in this scheme if you are a stock picker you have to figure out do i do i live in this realm or do i live in that realm because if you try to make money in both, you're going to screw yourself up because it's two completely different mindsets, two completely different skills, and it is just not a safe place.
1:03:08Stephen Morris:Maybe some of you can do it. I definitely cannot, and I wouldn't recommend it. So do you have anything else to add, Andrew, before we move into how people can figure all this out? No, I'm going to take your two cents and cash them in the bank. That was awesome. Thanks. So for an action item, because like I said in the beginning, we want to give you guys equipment to where you can actually start investing with confidence. And so, like I said, the very first step is what investing world do I live in? Once you figure that out, what I want you to do is just simply get yourself a sticky note and write down, I am archetype ABCD.
1:03:51Stephen Morris:or E. And that is A is a 401k investor, B is an index slash ETF investor, C is real estate investor, D is a stock picker, and then E is what type of stock picker, trading or investing. I want you to write it down. Maybe do it on a couple of sticky notes and put them where you'll see them often. And I say that for a very, very good reason. And that is if you're on social media, if you're watching YouTube videos, if you're watching the news and something pops up about real estate, when you're an ETF investor, ignore that real estate news completely. Don't allow that stress into your life. You don't need it.
1:04:38Stephen Morris:Eventually you get to a place to where you can compartmentalize. I think that's the right word. But if you're starting out, now's not the time to be learning compartmentalization of news. So I want you to just completely ignore what does not apply to you. And we're putting it on sticky notes where we're going to see it often so that it gets kind of not a habit, but kind of like a habit to where we start to hear news about x y or z and our brain instantly shuts it off it's like that doesn't apply to me i don't care um because there's just too much and if we try to take it all in we're going to overwhelm ourselves and it's going to do nothing but cause doubt and you know because while the dow jones may be awesome right now but the real estate market's going to total crap then now we have doubt because is the real estate market going to affect the Dow Jones?
1:05:34Stephen Morris:Who knows? So we just completely ignore what does not apply to us. So Andrew, do you have anything to add to that? No, that's awesome. All right. So that's going to wrap it up for today's episode. Next week, we're going to be talking about building a financial foundation to help improve your confidence. And that's actually going to be Andrew and Evan. I won't, I'm not going to be there for that because that's Evan's place. And then he gets mad when, when I tried to take over his space. So I'm going to let him have it because I'm a gracious person. No, I'm kidding. That is totally his realm. So Andrew's going to be bringing him onto the show to talk to you about building a solid financial foundation so that you can have confidence going forward in your investments.
1:06:19Stephen Morris:But let us know in the comments what type of investor you are. We would love to hear from you. And we will see you next time. But in the meantime, never, ever, ever forget invest with a margin of safety emphasis on the safety. Peace.
1:06:38You've been listening to the Investing for Beginners podcast. All show notes can be found on our website at einvestingforbeginners.com. To master the basics of stocks in seven days, sign up for our free email series at einvestingforbeginners.com slash newsletter. Until next time, have a wonderful day.
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From the publisher
In Part 1 of the "Path to Confidence" series, Stephen Morris and Andrew Sather tackle a critical lesson for beginner investors: you must know what game you are playing to avoid gambling away your money. The hosts break down key investor archetypes—from hands-off 401(k) "set-it-and-forget-it" investors to broad-market index/ETF purists—exploring the pros, cons, and tax strategies behind each path.
Moving beyond passive strategies, Stephen and Andrew analyze the realities of physical real estate versus REITs, alongside the mental grit required to succeed as an individual stock picker. The episode wraps up with a concrete action step: identify your investor archetype, write it down, and use it to confidently filter out any financial media noise that doesn't fit your personal game plan.
What You Will Learn
How to identify your specific investor archetype so you stop playing the wrong financial game and focus on your strengths.
The key pros, cons, and tax strategies of 401(k)s, Roth IRAs, and low-cost index ETFs.
The truth about real estate investing, comparing the heavy debt and hands-on labor of physical property to the passive simplicity of REITs.
The mental grit required for stock picking, and why long-term fundamental investing beats high-stress day trading every time.
A simple, 1-step action item to filter out distracting financial media noise and stay completely confident in your strategy.
Timestamps
02:15 – Introducing the "Path to Confidence" Series
03:30 – Archetype 1: The 401(k) "Set It & Forget It" Investor
04:30 – Pros & Cons of Employer-Sponsored 401(k) Plans
07:15 – Strategy Breakdown: 401(k) Match vs. Roth IRA
09:20 – Archetype 2: The Index Fund & ETF Purist
11:20 – Why ETFs Are the Safest Learning Ground for Beginners
12:55 – Archetype 3: Real Estate (Is Your Primary Home an Investment?)
15:10 – The Reality of Physical Real Estate: Leverage, Labor & Debt Risks
19:37 – REITs: The Truly Passive Alternative to Property Management
29:13 – Archetype 4: The Stock Picker Mindset & Mental Toughness
49:50 – Archetype 5: Trader vs. Investor (Day Trading Risks vs. Compounding)
58:10 – The Action Step: Your Sticky Note Assignment & Filtering Media Noise
Resources Mentioned
The Value Spotlight Newsletter: https://einvestingforbeginners.com/value-spotlight-newsletter/
Have questions or want your story featured? Email the show at newsletter@einvestingforbeginners.com or comment below. Your feedback shapes the podcast!
Remember, invest with a margin of safety—emphasis on the safety. Have a great week, and we’ll talk to you next time.
Timestamps are generated by artificial intelligence, and are not 100% accurate depending on the platform used for listening.
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