Are you missing out on £1,000s? If you’re married OR got kids OR low income OR pensioner you may well be!

29 Nov 2024 · 57 min

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The Martin Lewis Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title

Are You Missing Out on £1,000s? If You’re Married, Have Kids, Low Income, or Are a Pensioner, You May Well Be!

Podcast Overview In this episode, Martin Lewis discusses various financial benefits that many people might not be aware of, including tax allowances and council tax benefits. He also evaluates Black Friday broadband deals and engages listeners in a segment called "Tell Us," highlighting kids' involvement in family finances. The Mastermind segment tackles the misconceptions surrounding different forms of debt.

Key Topics Covered

  1. Financial Benefits for Specific Groups
  2. Marriage Tax Allowance
  3. Eligibility: Approximately 2.1 million married couples are not claiming this benefit.
  4. Mechanism: Non-taxpayers can transfer a portion of their tax-free personal allowance to their partner, resulting in potential savings.
  5. Back Claims: Couples can back claim four years, potentially gaining up to £1,000.
  • Council Tax Support
  • Missed Claims: An estimated 2.25 million people on low incomes may be eligible for council tax support, which can reduce their council tax by up to 100%.
  • Separate Claims: This benefit is independent of universal credit or pension credit and must be claimed separately from local councils.
  • National Insurance Credits for Childcare
  • Eligibility Issues: Many couples miss out on these credits due to the working parent applying for child benefits, which impacts the non-working partner's entitlement to credits.
  • Impact on Pension: Not claiming these credits can significantly affect future pension amounts.
  • Attendance Allowance
  • Eligibility: Aimed at state pensioners who require assistance due to disability or illness, potentially affecting around one million individuals.
  • Payment Rates: There are two rates: lower (£73/week) and higher (£109/week) based on the level of assistance needed.
  • Non-Means Tested: The allowance is not affected by financial status, making it accessible to many.
  1. Evaluating Black Friday Broadband Deals
  2. Current Market: This year features some of the best broadband deals seen in recent years.
  3. Comparison Sites: Users should leverage comparison sites to find better deals, as many offers are not available through direct providers.
  4. Savings Potential: Switching from expensive, slow broadband can save individuals hundreds of pounds annually.
  1. Mastermind Segment: Understanding Debt
  2. Common Misconceptions: The belief that debit cards are always better than credit cards can be misleading.
  3. Debt Comparisons:
  4. Interest Rates: Overdrafts are often more expensive than credit cards, and understanding the true cost of debt is crucial for financial health.
  5. Advice for Managing Overdrafts: Tips include moving direct debits closer to payday and considering money transfer credit cards to reduce overdraft costs.
  1. "Tell Us" Segment: Kids and Finances
  2. Listener Contributions: Parents shared anecdotes about their children displaying financial savvy, such as:
  3. Kids finding discounts and deals.
  4. Young entrepreneurs starting small businesses.
  5. Children learning about budgeting and savings through practical experiences.

Conclusion This episode provides crucial insights into various financial benefits that many individuals may be eligible for but unaware of. Martin emphasizes the importance of proactive engagement in personal finance management, especially for families, pensioners, and low-income households. The podcast encourages listeners to explore their eligibility for these benefits and make informed financial decisions.

Contact Information

  • Email: Send questions to [martinlewispodcast@bbc.co.uk](mailto:martinlewispodcast@bbc.co.uk) for potential discussion in future episodes.

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Transcript

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0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:07Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me. We work round the clock and have the facts at our fingertips. We're fast and effective, but incredibly patient. And we're built on Sierra, the leading AI-powered customer experience platform. No hold music, just answers and action. Visit sierra.ai to learn more. That's sierra.ai.

0:39BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Martin Lewis podcast. I do wonder what that's going to all be about. Now, usually much of it comes from my BBC Radio 5 live show with Adrian Charles, but there's also lots of extras just for you lucky, lucky podcast listeners. In this week's podcast, are you missing out on thousands of pounds? If you're married, or you have children, or you're on a low income, or you're a state pensioner, you may well be. I've four big categories where those in the know can claim huge money. I'll run you through whether Black Friday broadband offers are deals or duds this year.

1:19Spoiler alert, they're deals. In today's Mastermind, you'll learn why thinking debit card's good, credit card's bad is a dangerous assumption. And this week's Tell Us is all about when children take over the family finances. That and lots more. But for now, play the theme tune. I got meals, I got to pay, so I'm going to work for the world every day. I got a mouth, I got a feed, so I'm going to make sure everybody eats. Yes, Martin Lewis is on an hour earlier today. Just before we go through what we're going to talk about, I saw a tweet, you said, busy, eclectic, electric day today, and I thought I was talking about me again.

2:09The electricity between us, but no. So during Five Live, doing my Five Live podcast early at 12, that's me. Name check might have been nice, but there you go, since you didn't wish to do it. I couldn't remember your name. No, OK. Adrian, by the way. Adrian, by the way, fine. Then it's off to at energygov.uk to do a, quote, fireside chat with at Ed Milliband in front of staff there to discuss how to improve consumer energy issues. Then after that, off to do some tasks. but tasks with a capital T. Is that but a typo? No, and very well done, Adrian, because I was expecting the social media literati to have picked up on my capital T, but nobody has.

2:47Yes, it is tasks which involve a master. Tasks which involve a master. Ah, I see. Yes, for the New Year's special. I'm absolutely pooing my pants about that one. But luckily I've got the Ed Miliband chat first, which is quite interesting. They've asked me to go into the Department for Energy to do a chat with him in front of the Department for Energy staff. And I've got free reign to talk about what I want, while they're going to ask me questions. So I've got a very long list, but I want to be talking about the problem with smart meters, the issues over standing charges. I want to be talking about the fact that heating oil isn't regulated and all those people in rural communities, the lack of competition in the market.

3:24I've got half an hour and I've got a list which is just to write to go for half an hour. So I'll be interested to see what I can get out. But it's an interesting form of government, chatting with the Secretary of State in front of the department about what you think should be done for consumers in their department. You're the man.

3:45By the way, Taskmaster, no pressure, but when I was on that show, I ended up winning. I don't think that's going to happen. I think my brain, I'm way too competitive and not fun enough that I'm going to handle it really, really badly. I'm just going to care about winning. so broadband deals so fire away then anything with Black Friday in front of it I think that's probably a bit of a con but Black Friday broadband deals are they worth going for so in previous years my answer's been no and I certainly would not say there is a rule that Black Friday is the time to get your broadband deals however this year specifically we've seen a range of deals that are the best deals I've seen in 2024 So for those 7 million people who are out of contact on their broadband, which is basically anyone who's had it for more than 18 months or two years and hasn't done anything and re-signed up, you are almost invariably paying over the odds.

4:42You're paying 40 to 60 quid a month. So let's just translate that because it's always better to think by the year. 480 to 720 pounds a year. You're invariably getting relatively slow speeds compared to what's available on the market at the moment. Now, if I put it in context, and I need to start by saying, Getting broadband deals, they're always short-lived, so it's always about what's available at the time, and the best deals are always via comparison sites. You may need to go to a few comparison sites because it's their bespoke deals. Now, the reason it works like that... Are they fixed deals then?

5:13No, so these are all about incentives. Right. So the tariffs tend to be similar, and you'll find the same tariffs, the same overall price that you pay if you go direct for what they're offering and trying to bring in new customers. But if they do it, what they offer on comparison sites is they'll offer you from their marketing budget rather than the tariff, £150 credit or cash back,£150 Amazon voucher. And they do that because if they do it on their own sites, the firms themselves do it on their own sites. They have to offer it to existing customers. But if they do it via comparison sites where people who are price competitive go, they don't.

5:48So the new tariffs you tend to be able to find, you can get there. So, for example, and it depends which comparison site you go, there's Virgin deals between£17 and£19 a month for 264 meg broadband. That's pretty fast. And that's£17 or£19 a month. And what I do is me calculating. I've taken off an Amazon voucher or it's automatic bill credit, say, and I've factored that into the price over the contract. So the price I'm giving you is not what you pay. It's with the discount coming off. Yeah. Something I don't understand. Does it mean, because this is an embarrassingly basic question, but say you've got BT broadband and it's working.

6:26Been a bit flaky in the past. I'm asking this for a friend. Been a bit flaky in the past, but it's working. Fingers crossed because I'm knackered basically when it doesn't. But then if I say Virgin has got a better deal, does that mean I've got a new router? I've got to get a new router and new everything? I wouldn't worry about the router. I mean, they tend to supply the router if you're doing a switch. Virgin is a specific case because Virgin is not on the OpenReach network. So you've got the OpenReach network provided by BT that is the underlying service that provides most forms of broadband.

6:56But we're starting to see fibre to the home being brought in now, which is what the new faster deals are. Now, when you have fibre, what that means normally is there's a fibre cable, let's say, coming to your community, coming to the street. And then the last bit of it is done by a wire into your house. Fibre to the home is where the fibre comes all the way into your house. You don't have to usually have an engineer to fit it, but they might come and look at the outside of your house. And that's where you get the faster speed. So most of the new fast deals are fibre to the home. So you will need a slightly different setup.

7:24They might send you a new router to do it. They may not. It depends what you've got. But just to go in context, Vodafone's got deals of up to 500 meg, which is just, you know, 10 times what most people are getting. £25 a month once you factor in the incentives. And most people are paying£60 a month for a quarter of the speed. and I could go on and the Sky deal's out there and there's other deals. So those people are out of contract on your broadband. This is the moment of this year to be going and checking what you can get. And just to say the advertised speeds these days, the rules are over 50 % of customers must get those advertised speeds in peak time.

8:02So it used to be 10%, it's now 50%. So it's sort of changed the way it works. But it's not entirely commoditised, this product, in the sense that there are other variables, such as you go with a provider and something goes wrong, how long are you going to be waiting to get somebody out or even to get somebody to answer the phone? Well, the common answer to that is it has generally been OpenReach, which is the underlying provider that has caused the delay on all of them. So there has been a similarity. Of course, there's big differences in customer service. Virgin operates by itself, so you could judge that.

8:33And I haven't mentioned the altnets, as they're called, these new local networks, hyperoptic, community fibre, gigaclear, which can all be undercut some of the prices I've mentioned and are available in your area. You're right, Adrian. But, and it's really interesting. We do customer service ratings on my site when we talk about broadband. I can't really mention it that much. But I have this thing where, because broadband service is so poor, our levels of out of 10 for service on good, okay, and poor, what we count good, okay, and poor, about two points lower than any other sector. because good service in broadband is six out of 10 and above because broadband across the board is so poor.

9:15But I don't tend to see that there is a communality of reading that if you're paying less, you get worse service. I mean, it's luck of the draw. And let's just put this in perspective. People are paying 60 quid a month for slow speeds and could be paying 20 quid a month for 10 times the speed. That's a 500 pound a year saving. And things seem to be improving on the connectivity once you're getting fibre to the home, which is the new, faster stuff. So I get the nervousness, and I'm not saying it'll be perfect for anyone, but I would say it does work. But go for a comparison site. Don't go direct.

9:50Got it. Let's go to your four topics to check out. Check out what you're missing out on or not. Where should we start? What about marriage tax allowance? Yeah. So there are 2.1 million eligible married couples who are not claiming this. And this is a big tax break. It's deliberate social engineering in the tax system to reward marriage or civil partnerships. If you are cohabiting, it does not count. It doesn't matter you live together 20 years and have five kids. This is about being in a legal marriage or a legal civil partnership. If you are in that case, then the tax break works like this. Shall we get married again, Adrian?

10:31I like it when we do this. Yes, I do enjoy that. Is it a partnership or bells and whistles? Let's go the whole hog. Let's go be a bit romantic, you know, religious ceremony and everything. Right, so Adrian and I are married. Adrian, who's the basic rate taxpayer? Who's the non-taxpayer? Who earns more? That would be you, Mark. OK, so... Fair.

10:52So, you're a non-taxpayer for the sake of argument in this case, so you earn less than that£12 ,570 a year. And when I do this, lots of people go, yeah, but I volunteer, yeah, but I work, Look, yeah, but I have disability. Yeah, but if you're a non-taxpayer, if you don't pay income tax in a year, that is the only criteria. All your other ifs and buts, irrelevant. You don't pay income tax in a year. And you're married to someone who pays the highest rate of tax they pay is a 20 % basic rate taxpayer, which would be me. So what you are allowed to do is you are allowed to apply to transfer 10 % of your personal allowance, the amount you can earn each year tax-free, which is 1 ,260 odd quid is 10 % of it.

11:36And you can give that to me. So your unused allowance is coming to me. So I now have 1 ,260 quids worth of income that is untaxed, which was being taxed at 20%, which is a net gain of around 250 odd quid. But I can also, if we'd been married for those past four or five years, and this had always been our scenario, you'd always been a non-taxpayer, I've always been a 20 % rate taxpayer, we can back claim four years. Now, the back claim you often get by check or backs, and that's around a grand if you're claiming back four years. And then the current year claim is done by changing your tax code.

12:18And once you've done it, as long as you're still eligible. They will keep doing it each year. You don't need to notify them again. It's an absolute no-brainer, but 2.1 million eligible couples are not claiming. But you have to claim it. So this is important. You're the non-taxpayer. I, as the taxpayer, cannot claim it. You have to apply to give me that 10 % of your tax-free allowance. I can't take 10 % of your tax-free allowance. Why is it opt-in? Why is it an opt-in situation? Sorry, you're looking exasperated with me for asking the question. No, I'm not. I'm exasperated because it is. I like all of these things because automatically they don't...

12:53There's a better answer, actually. I give them some justification. And it's actually an issue that comes up in other areas. The tax system, separate to the benefit system, is based on individual income only. That was changed years ago that is no longer a man and his wife in the old days, the way we tax. So HMRC knows your tax situation and Now, HMRC knows my tax situation, but HMRC does not know our tax situation. Does it know if you're not paying tax and does it know if you're married? Because if you know those two things, then you might be suggesting... HMRC, I don't think, does know if you're married because that doesn't...

13:31Unless you're claiming this, it doesn't know if you're married. The benefit system does. But just to explain why that's quite complex, when I've been campaigning about the high income child benefit charge, which is a whole different matter, and saying it should be done on household income, One of the problems is HMRC doesn't do household income. Benefits does household income. And they're not joined up. So because it works like this is the answer. Whether it should or it shouldn't is a different question. But, yeah, it's incredibly important. So I go back. Non-taxpayer married to a basic 20 % rate taxpayer.

14:01Marriage tax allowance. Absolutely easy. You just go to gov.uk to apply for it. Got it. Eric on Facebook says, I put in for a marriage tax allowance some years ago. Wife then got a bill. Right. That does happen. Now, there are two reasons. I rarely get that, but I do get it occasionally. There are two things that can happen. The first one is when you put in for marriage tax allowance, all the calculations are done and they look and go, oh, you weren't paying tax on this that you should have been paying. Now, I need to be plain. That would have happened anyway. This is a catalyst, not a cause. It might have just happened three months earlier than they were otherwise doing it because they're looking at your tax system.

14:40But the main reason here, and it's a really good question. So let's go back to us. The tax-free allowance is£12 ,570. Now let's imagine I earn£20 ,000, so I'm way above that allowance. You though, you earn£11 ,570 a year, £1 ,000 short of it. You cannot apply to a move£1 ,000 of your tax-free allowance. You have to move 10 % of it, which is£1 ,260. So you've given me£1 ,260 I can earn tax-free, but you lose it. So now you have£260 of your income that will be taxed, and you will receive a tax bill. You are losing out on 20 % of£260, which is, what, about£40, but I'm gaining£250. So net, we are still up.

15:36We're just not up the whole amount. The only time marriage tax allowance doesn't work, this is quite tough to explain, but hopefully I can get it, is if I was only just above the threshold where I pay income tax. So let's say I earn£13 ,000, which is£430 above the threshold, and you were only just below the threshold where you don't pay. So you earn£12 ,400. In that case, you giving me your 20 % means you will pay more tax on the switchover than I gain. Right. For most people, the answer is as long as the easy way to think of it, if the 20 % rate taxpayer is comfortably above 12 ,570, let's say above 14 grand, you'll always be better off even if the non-taxpayer gets a bill.

16:27It's only in the circumstance where the 20 % taxpayer is only just above the threshold and the non-taxpayer is only just below the threshold. In that very niche, and it's only a small number of people, in that very niche occasion, this doesn't work and you're better off not claiming. But for the enormous majority of those 2.1 million people, I would guess, and I'm making this number up, about 2 ,090 ,000 of them, it's a net gain and you should do it. Flynn on Twitter raises something else. It was complicated. I hope people understand. If I did, you know, when Lee Dixon, the footballer, was going through his, what analysis he was going to do on the television for a game, he always used to talk me through it first.

17:08And later on, I heard him describe me as his idiot filter. If I can get him to understand it, then it's suitable for broadcast. Oh, well, I'm feeling very good. I passed the test. You're very self-effacing and it's not true. No, it largely is true. Flynn on Twitter, when is the best time to hand back the marriage tax allowance when your partner has just crossed the income tax threshold? Call them and let them know straight away. Just, you know, if you're if you look in truth, in most cases, if your partner's crossed the tax threshold, then there's no net game for you. You're just giving them 20 percent of your and they're going to save tax and you'll get the same amount.

17:46But the simplest thing to do is to declare it to the revenue when you know. OK, what about council tax benefit then? OK, this is a really quick one, but it's an important one that I wanted to do. There's loads of things I talk about on Council Tax, and we'll do a full probe on it in one day about how you read band and all the different discounts that people are available to. But there's a real, and this is even more of your question. I'm going to do my Adrian voice. But why? Why do they do it that way? That makes no sense. Right?

18:21I could just do the whole podcast. When you're not here, I could just do the whole thing. Absolutely. Right, so there's council tax support worth up to£1 ,500 a year missed by possibly two and a quarter million people. That data is from policy and practice who I work with to get the data. It's not government figure, the 2.25 million people. So this is a council by council reduction scheme for those on lower incomes. and it can cut your council tax depending on the council by up to 100%. In other words, you're paying out. Now, it very commonly applies to people who get universal credit or similar legacy benefits and people who get pension credit.

19:03But most people on universal credit and pension credit assume they will automatically get the council tax payment, the benefit. You do not. They are totally separate claims. Council tax support has to be claimed from your council. Universal credit and pension credit are claimed from central government. And because they're two separate claims, that's why there are potentially 2.25 million people eligible for council tax support who don't get it. Simply because they don't know, you don't get it automatically, you have to make a separate claim. So if you are on universal credit, or you are on pension credit, or you are on a legacy benefit like working tax credit, contact, go into your council's website or contact them by phone and have a look at what the criteria are for council tax support in your area and check whether you're eligible.

19:59And the vast majority of people in those categories will be eligible. Discount might be 25%, it might be 50%, it might be 100%. But two and a quarter million people are missing out on it. And it's just like, you just want to go, shouldn't it be joined up? But it's not. Okay, we've got a few minutes till the news and sport. Do we do a couple of tellers? Let's do a couple of tellers. That's exactly what I was fishing for. So this is when the kids help you with their finances. Yes. Go on, do you want to start? So I've got the Facebook ones, you've got the ones from X. We all get in on the octopus energy saving hours through winter, especially my 14-year-old who is a proper Yorkshire man and goes around the house turning everything off.

20:47Seriously, he asked me why I needed the light on when my laptop was giving out light from Claire on Facebook. My daughter did that to me the other day. Someone told me off about money savings. Daddy, you've left the light on. You always talk about saving energy. You've left the light on in your office. And I felt very chastised. I imagined you all groping around in the dark somehow with rechargeable batteries in little low... No, it's not quite... Not quite like that. Not quite like that. Remember, the philosophy of saving money is to now enable people to live a better life. It's not to curtail their life.

21:21What have you got? Somebody says... Is it Lois? Something my 13-year-old wants. He always checks it out, reads the reviews, finds the cheapest and tells me that, accompanied by sending me the link to the said item. So he's trained well at bargain hunting. That's actually quite a valuable skill. Well, yeah, well, you want it. Find me the very, very best price somewhere and I'll have a think about it if you clean the car. And Nicola on Facebook is very similar, actually. She says, when my girls were about 13, we told them they could have a quarter of any savings they made us on things like insurance, roadside assistance, utilities.

22:01They were straight onto the comparison sites and earned themselves a nice little reward while saving us loads and learning a great lesson about saving money. I'm just giving that round of applause. One of the things I always talk about when you're starting, even with kids age seven, is when you open them that children's savings account, which people ask me all the time. And don't worry, I'll do best children's savings before we get to Christmas, because I know those people are interested at the moment. And don't do it for them. Do it with them. Explain to them what interest is. Explain to them.

22:28And here's my explanation, simple explanation of interest. Interest is the price of money. So when you save, you're letting the bank have your money for a time and it has to pay you to have your money. So you want to go with the bank that is paying you the most to have your money at a time. But if you're getting money from the bank and you want the money from the bank. You've got to pay them. You've got to pay them and you want to pay them the least. And that's what interest is to a seven-year-old. And talk them through it and then go through which one's higher, which is a higher number, which does it work, which does it go through.

23:01Now, obviously, it's much more advanced what Nicola's done on Facebook, but I love it. I mean, the adult independence that you will give them when they have to go and look after themselves of having the experience. And a big question, just get in touch on this one. At what age did you start to tell your children about your household's financial situation? If you were struggling or if you're affluent, at what stage do you break that news to them and let them understand it? That's a fascinating question because you would surely err on the side of not worry. You wouldn't want to worry them, would you?

23:36Well, you wouldn't want to worry them. But on the other hand, certainly once they get into the teen years or even the tween years, if they're demanding you spend money a calm understanding of we are on a budget we have to be very careful you know things are tight and these are the way we can have we can live our life but we have to be careful takes pressure off and kids are very supportive on that type of thing but keeping them in the dark puts the pressure on the parents so there's that balance of what age do you do you start to load a little bit of understanding and responsibility onto your children let's talk about children's national insurance contributions yes this So the theme today is you're missing out on.

24:14This is quite a complicated one, but it's really important. And in fact, you remember I was quite moved at the start of the show last week because a woman had just stopped me in the street in tears. And that's what this was about. Right, yes. So a few people have asked me, what is it? So let me explain in detail. There are two categories here. Now, this is all about national insurance years and national insurance credit that go towards your state pension. To get a full state pension, you need 35-ish. It's a very big ish. Don't hold me to 35. 35-ish years of national insurance contributions. So if you're missing out on a year, I mean, that has a real impact.

Read the full transcript

24:49It can be worth thousands of pounds more to you to get an extra year late. Each extra year is worth thousands of pounds more once you retire. So this is big money. Now, two categories. Category number one, 200 ,000 are missing out because the wrong partner is getting national insurance credits. Here's how it works. You get national insurance credit from working as long as you're earning over a certain amount, which is not very much. You get national insurance credits. You will also get national insurance credits if you're taking time off work to look after your children, your young children. Not when they're 32.

25:19Not your children, but yeah. But that is triggered by applying for child benefit. If the wrong partner, if the working partner applies for the child benefit, they're already getting national insurance credit from working. But the partner who isn't working hasn't applied, so they don't get the credit. You're not getting double. You're not getting double. You're just getting the same national insurance credit. So you need to ensure that it is the non-working partner who's getting the national insurance credit. And if you've done it wrong, you can apply to retrospectively transfer your childcare credit, which is what the lady talked to me about last week.

25:58And it boosted the pension by thousands of pounds and she was in tears because she's now actually, she'd retired and it's now working for her and she's getting the money and she didn't know how she'd have lived without it. So just have a check. If one of you isn't or wasn't working and the other was working, which one of you claimed the child benefit? Which one of you got the national insurance credits? That's 200 ,000 people got that wrong. The second one is very similar. Child benefit is reduced once you start to earn. It's now 60 ,000. It used to be 50 ,000 and it goes completely once you earn 80 ,000 pounds.

26:31That is the highest earner earning over£80 ,000. But previously it was over£60 ,000. And this, again, is potentially backdatable. So many people, because they are not eligible for child benefit, don't claim child benefit. But as I have just said, it is the act of claiming child benefit that triggers the national insurance credits for childcare. So in the circumstance, for example, we'll be married. We've got a child now, Adrian. Oh, sweet. He'd be beautiful and handsome and very clever and speak very well. What's his name? Olaf. I like Olaf. Yeah, go for Olaf. Olaf Ehrmintud Lewis. He chose to take my name, I don't know why.

27:12The inheritance. So, right. So, we have a child. This time, you're the high earner and I'm staying at home. So, you earn£100 ,000 a year and I don't work. So, I'm at home. Yeah. I've gone, well, we don't need child benefit. We're not going to get anything. I'm not claiming it. I'm not getting national insurance credits because we've got a child. So we need to claim child benefit. You can actually claim at zero rate, so you can claim it and ask for nothing. But by claiming and ask for nothing, you trigger the national insurance credits that are important for your pension. And it's thought, again, another very common one.

27:45So those people who are higher earners and are earning over that threshold, if there's a non-working partner, make sure you're claiming child benefit either at a zero rate or it's being rebated because that's what gets you the national insurance credits. Let's move on to attendance allowance. OK, this is the big one. Shall I start with the question here? Sure. OK, so Jeanette on Facebook. Following your show, I applied for attendance allowance for my husband with early Parkinson's. We waited six weeks and were turned down. I appealed by phone and they phoned back a few days later, spoke to my husband, and we were awarded the lower rate paid back from his application in July.

28:24Thanks for the advice. Well, this is not trivial. The lower rate is£73 a week, so£3 ,780 a year. So being paid the lower rate isn't like we've got the lower rate. It's like we've got the lower rate. On that, I spoke to Age UK about this, who were brilliant at attendance allowance. They tell me their technical team are starting to see what they call more fundamental errors being made by people at the application level, not the individual, and people are being turned down when they shouldn't be. So we have to be very careful with filling out the form, and if you think you're entitled to attendance allowance, you should push through.

29:00But let me go into explaining what it is. Because, again, this is numbers from policy and practice that I've worked with for this number, not the government. We think a million people may be eligible for attendance allowance and not getting it. This is for disabled or ill state pensioners. That's who we're talking about, people of state pension age. Could be you, could be someone you know, and it's just listen out for someone you know in these circumstances. Attendance allowance is not means tested. So your financial situation is irrelevant here, which is why it applies to so many people. It applies to both mental and physical health conditions.

29:32One aside, if you get PIP, personal independence payments or disability living allowance, they're usually worth more. You can't get that and attendance allowance don't apply. Stick with what you've got. So it is for people, if you need help, I'm going to define help in a moment, during the day or during the night, then you're on the lower rate£73 a week£3 ,800 a year that works out to be. If you need help during the day and the night you're on the higher rate£109 a week which is£5 ,600 a year roughly. If you have less than a year to live you're also on the higher rate£109 a week less than just £5 ,600 a year.

30:10So help is defined as must have needed help for six consecutive months even if you didn't get it. So the fact you haven't had help is irrelevant. Help is help with someone for daily living. It could be feeding, it could be eating, it could be going to the toilet, it could be getting yourself dressed, it could be mobility. It's all of those natural, ordinary purposes that a healthy, well, able-bodied person would be able to do for themselves. But who assesses this? There's sort of if-bots and grey areas here. There are, but these are the rules. In fact, there's a lovely quote by Lord Denning. It is, you know, when you apply, you're going to need your national insurance number, your GP number, your prescription and hospital records, all of those things help.

30:49But the vast majority of people don't actually have an assessment in person. The application form does it as long as they've got the records that are backing up their condition. You know, I had somebody on my telly show the other day. This was a man who had very severe arthritis in both hips. He could struggle to walk. I mean, you know, he's walking two or three metres. He's living with his daughter and his son-in-law. Very clearly he had mobility issues and he got attendance allowance. And attendance allowance is worth it. I should also state it's not just help with daily living. There's also a supervision category.

31:20And supervision is if you need somebody to watch you to avoid danger to yourself or to others, then that also counts. Now, when you are doing this, it's common for people with Parkinson's, dementia, terminal illness, physical disability, and a whole lot more. It is very common. It's quite intuitive, really. If you need help, and you're a state pensioner and you need help to live and do things that most people would take for granted that they can do for themselves, and you're not on any other PIP or DLA, you may well be entitled to attendance allowance. If you are, I would always suggest you do not apply online.

32:01You call up and request a form, and this is why. If you call up and request a form, they will back pay you to the date that you requested the form, unless you hold on to the form for ages and you've deliberately held on to it. as long as you're getting it back within six or eight weeks. If you apply online and most people start an application they need to go and do loads of checks, it's only when you submit the application. So you're better to call up, get them to send you the form, even though the paper form is cumbersome. Fill it in with as much detail as possible. Be careful, get this right.

32:28If you need help, the Age UK website is great and it has a helpline too. I have had an enormous number of successes on this since I launched this, my awareness campaign about a year ago, and I've had quite a large number of failures too. So I'll need to manage expectations. You raise the question, who decides? There's a level of arbitraness. But we need to pass word. It also unlocks a disability rail card. It may unlock a blue badge. It may unlock council tax access and my discount. It may give you extra pension credit. It may give you carer's credit if you've got a carer. Getting this, it also is often not quite a gateway, but an indicator that you're eligible to many other things.

33:06Amanda on Facebook says a lot of people think the attendance allowance has been used to pay for care. It has to be used to pay for carers. This isn't the case. The money can be used for anything, and DWP will not check how you have spent it. Absolutely correct. I go back to, again, that criteria. You must have needed help for six consecutive months. It is not you must have had help for six consecutive months. And sadly, in our society at the moment, there are many people who need help but haven't had help. So that's the criteria, and it is then money to ease. what you choose to spend it on to ease your living because of these cases.

33:42Most people I talk to are spending it on mobility aids or they're spending it on things that can help them. I've heard stair lifts being bought with this type of money. You don't have to use it for a carer at all. I've got two listeners talking to each other on Facebook. Karen says, I applied for attendance allowance. I was turned down because I only take paracetamol for pain. I appealed in a phone call later to explain I can't take anything stronger as I react badly to anything stronger. and I was awarded a higher rate. It pays to speak to someone to appeal. As he told me, it was because of the painkillers that I was turned down.

34:13But once explained, he understood, very helpful. And then Joe on Facebook says, this gives me hope. I applied for my mum and she has heart failure. They said she didn't qualify for attendance allowance. I'll ring them and try again. Well, yeah, I would go through Age UK. If you've been turned down and you think you're entitled, I mean, I had someone the other day who has been living in an oxygen tent and was turned down. I mean, you very clearly meet all the definitions of attendance allowance if you're stuck and having to use an oxygen tent on a very regular basis and that you can't get up and down.

34:43So now the painkillers, just let's be clear, reading between the lines, that is not someone who has to take, you know, that taking paracetamol means you can get attendance allowance. Right. That will be someone who has a condition that they've not mentioned and we don't want to go into their medical condition. But the painkillers they're taking is paracetamol. The attendance allowance will have gone. Which implies it's not in that much. pain and therefore they didn't get it. But we don't know what the underlying condition was. But I just really, I want your help, regular listeners and you're listening on the podcast as well.

35:14Just think, is there someone you know who is in this position? Remember, it's not means tested. There's no financial test because a million disabled or ill state pensioners are likely entitled to this and not getting it. And I get so, I'm very lucky in my life. I get many, many thank you emails. But this is one of those when you get an attendance allowance success, the relief, because I mean, it just permits people to live life that has been taken away from them to live an element of their life in many cases. And people are just going, I can finally know a man who is buying himself a wheelchair and was able to get out the house for the first time because he got a wheelchair.

35:52You know, it's that type of absolutely transformative change that it can provide for some people, which is why it would be it's incumbent on all of us to spread word. And the first step is to ring who? Well, I would say the first step is to do a little bit of reading. Yeah. And so you can read that on various websites and Age UK has a good website and just go through, you know, I've given you the criteria, but in a bit more detail, exactly what they'll want. Then I would get your documents together, get your hospital records together, get your prescription details that you've got so you can sort of explain.

36:24Then if you're competent, capable and think I 100 % clearly fit into this category and I've read the Age UK website or I've read another website and it's telling me that, then go call up, call up via gov.uk, I could give the numbers actually. In England, Scotland, Wales 0800 7310122. In Northern Ireland 0800 5870912. Available daytimes, weekdays, both of those. Call them up, ask for a form, fill in the form. If If you're struggling, you can call the Age UK help down. I don't want to ram the Age UK helpline. So, I mean, see that as if you're struggling. But fill in the form carefully. This depends on your own personal competence.

37:03You'll know that. You know, if you're someone who's been working in the professions and been filling in forms and documents for all of your lives, you can do this. If that's not your vocational experience, you're not good at it, then get some help and speak to Age UK to do it with you. OK, but you might still need help getting your hospital records and everything together. Yeah, I'm just thinking of somebody elderly living alone. Yeah, you're not going to be able, you probably won't be going online for them. And it's very difficult to get anyone to answer the phone, you know, get your doctor's surgery to do it.

37:33It's hard. None of this is easy. None of this is easy. Listen, we've got the numbers out today, boasting about 146 % uplift in pension credit applications on the back of the winter fuel payment. Still leaves 700 ,000 of the poorest, most vulnerable eligible pensioners not getting winter fuel, not getting pension credit, not getting winter fuel payment. I mean, because that's up to 240 question application form. The benefit system is too complicated. It tends to be the most vulnerable people who apply for benefits. And then we make it quite tough. I just, I'm moving off, but with my charity, Money and Mental Health Policy Institute, they did some amazing research on this.

38:10One of the problems we have, when Universal Credit was launched, it was launched to get it out quickly. It was launched as a minimum viable product that would just, you could do. but there was no testing done in the mainstream for people with mental health and mental capacity issues. And actually a huge proportion of people on universal credit have mental health and mental capacity issues, far bigger than the rest of society. But do you know that we found that the form you have to fill in to enable you to allow a third party to help you fill in the universal credit application form is incredibly complicated.

38:40But you have to get that form to fill in to allow somebody else to help you with it. I mean, so the whole system, And my charity is now working with government to try and improve that form. But, I mean, this is an endemic problem in our benefit system. Anyway, speaking of finding things difficult, play the theme tune. Bad segue, but...

39:04Hello, welcome to Money Mastermind. It's where I pose Adrian a money teaser and he's starting to invariably get them wrong. I'm just going to pick it at random from now on. No, no, no, no. I want you to try and we want to understand your logic in why you picked. So the current score, Adrian has done eight of them. It's three option, multiple choice. Therefore, we'd be hoping he would have got at least three right, but he hasn't. He's got two of the six right. Less than random chance. So now I need to be honest. In the past, in some of these mastermind introductions to set up the question, I've been rude about Adrian.

39:39I've parodied the way he speaks. I've parodied his dress sense. I've parodies his overall demeanour. So I think it's important to say to you all, loud and proud, that in reality, I feel Adrian deserves a lot of credit. And sadly, with his awful budgeting skills, it's necessary that he gets a lot of credit too. So let's move on to today's question. That wasn't the best set-up. It wasn't my favourite. I liked it. It was OK. It was OK. Adrian, today's question is all about credit or debt, if you prefer. I would like to know which has the highest interest rate of these three options. There's no maths in it.

40:17An HSBC, and I'm using HSBC for all of them, but the trend follows all the same on the banks. I just thought I needed to use one consistent bank. This is not about HSBC. An HSBC purchases credit card standard APR. So no 0 % period. After the 0 % period, the standard APR of HSBC's credit card for purchases? B, HSBC's bank's standard overdraft EAR, equivalent to the same, both interest rates. Or C, HSBC's standard loan APR for£1 ,000. So A is its purchases credit card, B is its overdraft, C is its loan. Which of those three has the highest interest rate and do explain your logic. Well, all of these three, we were assuming they're basically industry kind of average.

41:11Exactly. It's why I picked it. This isn't about HSBC, but just to be fair, I wanted to go with one bank. If I could have done Barclays, I could have done Lloyds, I could have done any of them. So I want to know. And this follows the standard pattern that they all do. Yeah, I would suggest... Tell me your order. Well, I would say, well, I'm going by what I've heard you say. Never a bad thing. Just that the absolute most expensive form of debt is a credit card, is borrowing off your credit card, going over, not going overdrawn, not paying it back, you know, just not paying it off in full. So, I mean, that's got to be the highest.

42:03Thereafter, I don't know much about what you get, what a major bank would charge you for a loan. I would suggest it was slightly less than an overdraft. So you would say loan cheapest, followed by overdraft, followed by credit card most expensive. Yeah. So your answer is A. Yeah. Final answer? Yeah. Are you sure? Well, no, I'm not sure about anything. I love the nihilism. It's just... I feel I've been cruel with you on these past main questions. Life's cruel. There's a reason for them. OK, so let's do the answer. HSBC's standard loan for£1 ,000, I mean, borrowing money,£1 ,000 is always expensive, as a loan is 16.9 % APR.

42:50If you were borrowing£10 ,000, it'd be 6.6%, much cheaper. HSBC's credit card that you talked about, it does have a 0 % for purchases. So obviously when it's 0%, if you're using that right, that is the cheapest way to borrow. But we talked about the standard APR. It's pretty common to most credit cards now. They used to talk about it being 18, 19%. It's now 24.9%. Now, with overdrafts in the old days, they used to charge you a daily fee, or they would charge you something of that ilk. that all changed, I think it was just before the pandemic, 2019, where they said it has to be done by an APR rate.

43:27And we saw an enormous homogenisation of the rates of overdrafts. And they all came in all around 39.9%. So, can we have an uh-uh? I'm afraid it's another one wrong. I'll take the uh-uh for a lesson. And let me explain. This is unarranged overdraft. No, this is standard overdrafts, not unarranged. This is just going into your overdraft. You know, common parlors should just go in. You might have a little buffer zone, but, and the reason this is important, it's fascinating what you said, because I thought you were going to get it right when you said that, because I have talked about this before.

44:01People often think, debit cards, good. Credit cards, bad. But if you are overdrawn, your debit card is a debt card, and it is likely a more expensive debt card than a credit card. I mean, if you have credit card debts and overdraft debts, people try and pay off their credit card as much as they can from their overdraft. No, you pay the minimum on the credit card because it's cheaper. You try and put as much of your income as possible towards clearing the overdraft because overdrafts of main banking debt, we'll ignore some subprime type lending or other type of lending, is the devil's debt. It's the most expensive form of main banking debt.

44:43You do not want to be in your overdraft unless you've got a buffer zone or you're one of the few with the 0 % on the overdraft. So we need to stop thinking. I talk about credit cards because more people have credit card debt than have overdraft debt. But we need to stop thinking credit cards bad, debit cards good. It's way too binary when it doesn't actually work like that. For those people who are in their overdrafts, I've got lots of tips. First of all, you need to try and make it cheaper. There's only one bank offering a 0 % overdraft at the moment. That's First Direct offers 250 quid 0 % overdraft.

45:12it also pays you£175 to switch to it. The problem is it won't necessarily transfer your overdraft over. So it might give you the£250 overdraft. It's not guaranteed, but you might get it. But then it won't close your old bank account because you've got an overdraft. You would have to move it over. So it's a bit tricky, but you can do it. And of course, the£175 might just help as well and use that to reduce your overdraft. You could alternatively use money transfer credit cards. A money transfer credit card is a bit like a balance transfer. It's very rare. Most cards don't do it, be very careful, don't pay cash, is where you get a credit card at 0 % that gives you money into your bank account, so you now owe the credit card at 0%, but the money's gone in your bank account and you can therefore use that to clear your overdraft.

45:57There's a Virgin Money one, which is 12 months 0 % with a 4 % fee, 26.9 % APR afterwards. There's a Tesco Bank one, which is nine months 0 % with a 4 % fee, 24.9 % afterwards. So you could use that to shift your overdraft on if you're accepted, and then try and pay that off and get out of your overdraft, because even the rate afterwards on those cards is cheaper than most people's overdrafts. If you are repaying your overdraft, try to pay a fixed monthly amount like you would on any other debt. So, for example, if you're£500 overdrawn, aim that next month you're paying off£100, you'll be£400. The month after, you'll be£300.

46:31Budget that way. Try considering moving your direct debits to just before payday. The idea, then, is you're overdrawn for less time, so less interest accrues. That's important to do. If you've got savings, of course, use them to clear an expensive overdraft. And if you're going, I can't even come close to my overdraft and my credit cards and all my other debt. If you're panicking about your debts, if you've got over a year's worth of salaries, debts, if you can't make your minimum repayments on your debts, or if you're just not sleeping or got anxiety, go and seek a non-profit debt counselling agency, Citizens Advice, National Debt Line, Step Change, talk to them.

47:06They can help you. They can help you sleep at night. But overdraft is not a trivial debt. We should not ignore it.

47:15Podcast producer Suzanne is here. So PPS, very similar to normal podcast producer Simon. I'll call you both PPS. So PPS, we're going to do some tellers together. The tellers this week was tellers when your children, especially under 18s, have helped you with the household finances and what they've done. So what have you got out there? I think these two you're going to really like. So this is from Rosie on Twitter. She says, my 10-year-old did the mental maths on a garage bill that I was just about to pay and he realised I'd been overcharged by 20 quid. School taught him not to be afraid of numbers or maths.

47:49That's from Rosie. I've got one. Let me do one. That's lovely. Well done, Rosie. And it just shows you a good bit of mental maths, even when kids are starting out and don't necessarily understand the financial context, can really help. This one is from Pauline on Facebook. My daughter started a part-time job at school, so has been budgeting from an early age. She told me about you, I think that means me, years ago and has been savvy following your advice. Her house was paid for in seven years and she has never had credit. I'm so proud of her. Well done. Well done, Pauline, and well done, Pauline's daughter.

48:21This is a great one. This is from Liz on Twitter and she says, My 12-year-old son, who's on the autism spectrum, reminded me to set up an extra current account to keep two direct debits ready to avail of all upcoming bank switches. Nice banking mule. Yes, as she puts it, with the handle at mse underscore deals. I earned almost£1 ,000 in the first year. Well done. Well, we love bank switching. I might actually be doing that on the show next week, talking about how you bank switch and how you set up a mule account just to take advantage of the bank switch deals. Let's do this one from Shell on Facebook.

48:59My son, who has special needs, when he was younger and we went food shopping, he was always finding the deals, telling me and my late husband not to get that, get these, buy two, get one free. He saved us loads of money. You see, I love it. I think all of these are interesting and fun ways to start to engage the kids on the finances. I tried to talk to my daughter the other day. I was teaching the difference between prepaid cards, debit cards and credit cards. We almost talked about that in the show just now. Maybe and probably not the most fun way to do it. I think some of these are more fun than the way that I do it.

49:28What else have you got? OK, I love this one. My 13-year-old has been making money on vintage, selling old stuff. Bit of a Dell boy, like his dad was back in the day on the markets. That's from Kerry. They're all good and they're all different skills in saving money on making money. Helen on Facebook, my son Casper is 12. During lockdown aged eight and nine, to make homeschooling more interesting, he decided to start making dog biscuits as a business. He's made over£2 ,000 and invested his money for his future. I love it, Helen. Well done to you. And Casper, brilliant stuff. Age 12, already got your own business.

50:02You'll be a dragon in 30 years and we'll all come pitching to you for money. This is a very good one for Black Friday. You'll approve of this. If I ask my daughter if she wants takeaway, she always says to me, but do we have takeaway money? She questions most purchases asking, do we need this? Or she makes do with what she has. She's 14, but she has always been this sensible. That's from at Oldbreed Oracle on Twitter. This is very interesting. We'll probably stop there. But I've been thinking, because when I read this on the social media responses to this, it was a really split response. Some had just thought the entire question of the kids helping out with the family finances or being good with money was absolutely hilarious because it's just not what kids do.

50:43And others, as you've heard from all these positive examples that we've got, saying, yes, it absolutely does work. And I think part of this is we do have different money personalities. There are different attitudes to money. and if you've got a kid who's got you know financially savvy or good with maths or interested in deals and you can get them into the gamified element of saving money I mean it's almost how I started originally was everything I did was gamified how do we beat the system how do we play the system I've broadened out in the range of things I talk about these days but getting them involved in that gamified nature of it can really engage them in starting to think about being a consumer and the more you can do with them before they start to become financially independent before they have to do all this themselves.

51:22I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking your 16-year-old, I mean, it depends on your issues, but taking your 16-year-old through the family financial budget, even setting it as a challenge for them to see how it works out or what you need to do. And these type of tasks and learning at home to supplement the financial education that they should be, but many aren't, getting in schools, for me is really important. That's why I wanted to do the tellers this week and I do hope you enjoyed it. Can I read you my favourite one? Okay, go on. This one says, my 12 year old ordered a mixed grill on holiday it's been downhill ever since

51:57it's the it's the entryway into spending a mixed grill it is but let's just play it back sorry to be all worthy let's just play it back for a second I mean just in terms of educating kids there is a point at which you start saying look at the prices on the menu yeah my dad would always go for a mixed grill used to drive mum crazy yeah but your dad your dad was paying yeah he was paying or your mum might have been paying But my point is, when you're a kid, if your kids go through the menu and they order, oh, that sounds nice. And they order the steak and the steak costs 60 quid and you were expecting to pay 20.

52:29I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, look at the price of that. Are we going to do that? We can't afford that at the moment or we don't want to spend that much on it. I think those transparent conversations start to educate people that money is a limited resource. okay you lucky lucky podcast listeners it's that time of the pod where i do special tips just for you i know so exciting i've got a couple of light ones this week because it's been quite a heavy show first of all free personalized letters from santa yes you can get them from santa because he has el stationed at various different places that can help out the first one and the one with the shortest closing date is to get a free braille letter or large print or audio tape for children who are blind or partially sighted.

53:16The deadline for Braille, audio CD and large print letters is Sunday the 1st of December. You can do it via the Royal Institute of Blind People, RNIB. They have a free application form on their website to do it. So if your child is blind or partially sighted, worth doing that one quickly. If you miss the deadline, they will send you an email if you email them. But it's far better to get the Braille, audio CD and large print letters, Sunday the 1st of December for that one. Then the mainstream one, the Royal Mail, has elves as well, who very kindly, if you post them a letter from Santa, the letter you're sending to Santa needs to have a stamp on it, but they will send you one back without a stamp.

53:55So, I mean, technically it isn't free, but you get it. And you just need to post the Santa's letter to Santa, or Father Christmas, whichever you prefer, at Santa's Grotto, Reindeer Land, XM4 5HQ. XM4 5HQ. and you need to do that by Monday the 9th of December but get them in quicker and it's a lot easier. There is also a Welsh address to post to. I'm going to try and pronounce it but I'm going to do it horribly because I didn't pre-prepare this. I apologise to everybody in Wales or who is a Welsh speaker. Cion Corn, Ogof Cion Corn, Gvaledd i Siewir, XM4 5HQ. I know I just mess it up horribly. I was trying at least.

54:36And finally, for a suggested donation of£3, The NSPCC actually has a whole different range of elves who all work on different themes. Eight themes, to be an example, including Baby's First Christmas and the Christmas Express. And for a suggested donation of£3 to the charity, you will get a letter back from Santa. The deadline for ordering your letter via post is Sunday the 15th of December. Donations support children in need by providing services such as Childline. The letter is available in English or Welsh and should arrive in the post in time for Christmas. And my second tip is for Tesco shoppers.

55:11You have just days left, or in fact less than that, depending on when you're listening to the podcast, to use£18 million worth of Clubcard vouchers. Obviously, you won't have the Clubcard vouchers. That's a collective amount, but you get the point. Although there is a way to extend them with a little trick that is available. So what this is about is Tesco Clubcard vouchers normally last two years. And the next tranche of them runs out on Saturday the 30th of November, so not very long. If you don't want to spend your vouchers, well, first thing, spend your vouchers. Go online, check whether you've got any vouchers in Tesco Clubcard and where they date.

55:44And if they're dating on the 30th of November, you could spend them. You could spend them in store or online or you could use them for Tesco Rewards where you double up the points. If you have nothing you want to spend them on at the moment, for example, you're saving up something big on Tesco Rewards, there is a way around this. So let's say you have a£10 Tesco voucher. Go and get 50p worth of rewards with it, say for a Pizza Express voucher. That's no idea. Then you should get the 50p Pizza Express voucher and 950 points given to you, which then can be converted into vouchers and will last another two years.

56:19So you extend it. Now, Tesco does technically say that if it thinks people are trying to abuse its system, it will not honour that, but we've never had a case of it. And I think if you're just extending one or two vouchers, it shouldn't be a problem at all. But I needed to put that caveat in there. And those are my tips this week.

57:01See you next week.

57:31as the details can date. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

From the publisher

Martin tells you all about the money you might not know you’re entitled to

Plus, is it worth looking at Black Friday deals on broadband?

Listeners ‘Tell Us’ about when their children have impressed them with their financial know how

And Mastermind tackles the thorny subject of which debt is the most expensive.

Get in touch: email martinlewispodcast@bbc.co.uk

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