Christmas Special: The best of Martin’s Money Mastermind!

0:00Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is our festive special, yes, it's a best of mastermind podcast, where podcast producer Matt has picked out his favourite masterminds that I've challenged Adrian with since September. Oh, the joys. Me asking a question. Adrian's sitting there looking bedazzled, confused and befuddled. Play the thing, Jim.

0:43I think at this point, Adrian, we all need something a little bit more relaxing and a little bit more chilling. Rosie and I certainly do, but maybe not for you. Can we play the theme tune, please?

0:58I want Rosie just to give me a... She is not allowed to. Rosie will know the answer. so she is not allowed to help you. Rosie, I won't poke her face, please. I'm just looking at you, Rosie, listening to it. So the score, Adrian, the mastermind score, where I ask you questions rather than you ask me questions, is you currently have 11 right and 23 wrong in this three-option multiple choice, which means it is now statistically likely that if we'd written the options on three scraps of paper, place them on the floor beneath a three-toed sloth, and each week picked whichever one it pooped on the most, that would be a more successful method of answering than you have been.

1:41You are now and have officially limboed below random chance. Random chance, you would have been 11. You've made your point. 11, right, 22 wrong. So. It's nearly time for the news. In a shock, I'm throwing you a bone. All right. This week's question is one I have explained to you before in a very similar way to the way I ask it now. In fact, I have done the explanation, looking you in the eyes twice on the show. Yes, this is a sympathy question, everybody. Adrian, you should get this right. Does that add pressure? Yes. Good. So, no elaborate setup, no preamble, just the question. If you bought a high-tech smartphone brand new 18 months ago, and it's now failing through no fault of yours, you haven't damaged, you haven't misused it, it's now got a fault, how long are you protected where by law they must repair it or replace it for free?

2:44Is it A, the warranty length, which we'll say in this case is one year, B, there's no fixed time, it's just what's reasonable, C, two years as the EU electrical law was incorporated into UK law post-Brexit. So, it's a faulty phone. You haven't done anything wrong. You bought it 18 months ago. How long is your protection? The warranty length, which we'll call a year. It could be two years, but in this case, I'll say it's one year. There's no fixed time. It's just what's reasonable. Or two years as the EU electrical law was incorporated into UK law post-Brexit. How confident are you? Well, I think I remember when you told me you boiled it down very kindly to me and using the example of a tin whistle.

3:28If I bought a tin whistle for a quid and it conked out after a year, that was not unreasonable. But if this is a high-tech smartphone, and you said high-tech, you made that point. Not any old smartphone. and 18 months through no fault of my own, you said. So I would say that is unreasonable. It is not a reasonable length of time. So I'm going for B. You're saying there's no fixed time. It's just what's reasonable. I had a big bone, been chewed by a dog. I tossed it up in the air. It span around a few times. You put your hands out in that correct cricket catch to see if you could catch it. It fell down.

4:17You pushed your hands together over the bone. Did it slip out? No. Play hallelujah. Oh, beautiful. That's friendship. I gave you an easy one. So just to explain it to everybody who is listening. Yeah, look, it's really important to understand there are consumer rights laws when you buy something that say goods must be of satisfactory quality as described, fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time. Those are your legal rights. If you take them back within a month, if it's faulty, you're entitled to a full refund. If you take it back after that, you're entitled to a repair or partial refund or a replacement.

4:56There is no time limit, though. Reasonable time, exactly as Adrian beautifully explained, and it was a tin whistle. It's actually a plastic whistle, but I'm going to let you have the tin whistle, but it was a pretty good memory, is the way that I tend to explain it. So it is what a reasonable person would say is reasonable. Well, there's just a grey area. It is, and ultimately it's a judge who would decide it. But what we do is, and I've done before where I've got a juries of people just as an example and said, OK, I've got 10 people here. How would what would you say is reasonable? And we go in here.

5:23And I think we would all say that a whistle breaking after 18 months, if it costs 50p or a quid. Well, it's pretty reasonable. It's not fair. But if I've spent two grand on a smartphone and through no fault of my known, it's not working after 18 months. Well, that is perfectly reasonable. Now, what happens and the reason I do this question and the mischief I'm looking to solve in this question is I cannot tell you how many people go to high tech shops. where the retailer and the manufacturer are the same. So I'm talking Apple and Samsung, to be honest. And they go in and their phone's broken after 18 months and they take it in and they say, sorry, you're out of warranty.

5:58And you never bought the extra warranty. Well, it doesn't matter. They say you're out of warranty. And my answer is warranty smorrenty because the warranty is a contractual obligation that you were given by the manufacturer. Absolutely fine. It's nice to have and it's good. but you have legal rights with the retailer. Now, in this case, the retail, if it's Apple, Apple is a retailer and a manufacturer. They're answering you as a manufacturer. You're going into the shop. You're asking them as a retailer. Under the retail rights law, the sad fart rule, satisfactory quality as described, fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time, you have retail rights and you're saying, I don't care about your warranty.

6:32You do it politely and nicely. It's not the customer service people's fault. You're saying under the law, this item must last a reasonable length of time. It has not lasted a reasonable length of time. Therefore, you are responsible for repair or replacement. Now, if you push that and you understand that the warranty is irrelevant because I'm asking you as a retailer and your rights, your legal rights are always with the shop you bought, the place that you have the contract from, then you need to enforce it. And that is, I mean, we should teach this in schools. You buy something, your rights with the retailer.

7:00If items are faulty and you take them back, then they have to give you a full refund within 30 days or repair or replace afterwards. woods. Of course it's a grey area. I mean, let's say we've got a jury of you and Rosie here. My smartphone breaks after four and a half years. It costs two grand. Is that reasonable? I mean, the amount of yacking you do, I'd be amazed if it lasted that long. I wouldn't give you money back. Okay, so you see, of my jury of two, you're both saying that's unreasonable. So, you know, one and a half years you're saying is reasonable, four and a half years. Now, if I went up every month, at what point do we stop?

7:39Welcome to My Money Mastermind. Now, Adrian, in our three-option multiple choice, got it right last week, which means he has scored 14 correct and 26 wrong, which means, Adrian, I'm delighted to tell you, you are BRC.

7:58There you are. So, last week you were NBRC, no better than Random Chance. This week you are one ahead of Random Chance, 13 right, 26 wrong would have been random chance. You've got 14 right and 26 wrong. All this means is that you'll give me an extra hard one to just knock me off my perch. But what I think you should be excited by is of the 40 questions we've asked, one of the 40 is your added value. Thank you so much for that. Very good. Adrian, you're at home on a Monday afternoon doing your favourite things, alphabetising your coffee bean collection and complaining about modern life. A bit of self-examination means you decide enough is enough, you need to get out of there, get fit, get healthy, get well and join a gym.

8:47On the spur of the moment, you call up your local fitness centre, negotiate a great deal. Well done, mate. And it asks you for your debit card details, the longer number to set up the payment. What I would like to know is which of these is the correct legal position you are now in. Is it A, as it's a card you used to do it, it's a recurring payment with little protection? I used a credit card, did I? No, you used your debit card. Debit card, right. B, as it's your bank debit card you used, you're covered by the powerful direct debit guarantee. C, as it's your bank debit card you used, you're covered by the powerful direct debit guarantee, but only if you sign the direct debit guarantee document they send to you afterwards.

9:33So is it A, it's just a recurring payment with little protection, B, you're covered as a direct debit because you used your debit card, or C, you're covered as a direct debit because you used your debit card, but only if you sign the direct debit guarantee form they send you? What's your thinking? I think, well, I don't think you're covered. I think it's a recurring payment on a debit card. It's not the same as a direct debit agreement, I think. So are you saying, A, as it's the card you use to do it, it's a recurring payment with little protection? Well, yes, except I think that's true. Although if then you, by some rule, have to sign a direct debit agreement, that might elevate it to being a de facto direct debit.

10:35So you're thinking it's C, as it's your bank debit card you use, you're covered by the powerful direct debit guarantee, but only if you sign the direct debit guarantee document they send you afterwards. It's a hell of a red herring you've put in. I mean, it's a hell of a direct debit you've put in if that's not true. I mean, do they... I can't answer your questions. Well, you might be able to. I mean, do they have to send you the direct debit agreement? Is your answer A, it's a recurring payment, B, it's a direct debit, or C, it's a direct debit only if they send you the direct debit agreement and you sign it?

11:09I think it's C. Final answer. Final answer. So, Adrian, first of all, let's say the fact that you are using your debit card does not automatically mean you are covered as a direct debit guarantee. No. Adrian if you still used your debit card and you're covered by the powerful direct debit guarantee and they send you the direct debit guarantee document then it would be completely weird because I made that option up place it please well that's that's the reddest of red hair I don't think that's cricket I don't think that's cricket I'm sending that up to the to the I have to say when I wrote it I did look at it and I think what I've done is I've put two options that are very similar that are both wrong and that will make you think that one of those two must be right and it worked because the correct answer is it's a recurring payment with little protection and this is actually really important for people to understand adrian you've now got 14 uh 14 right and 27 wrong you're still brc though just yeah but our relationship has taken a hit there so sorry about that now let's just talk about the direct debit guarantee this is covered by the direct debit scheme rules.

12:25These are powerful protections legally enforceable backed by the banking industry. That applies when you set up a direct debit. The way you set up a direct debit is from your bank account. So you would give your bank account number and the sort code. The crucial bit in this question is that you gave your long card number, and in which case it doesn't matter whether it's a debit card or a credit card. If it's a payment from the card, as opposed to a payment with the bank account number, then it is a recurring payment and you have far fewer rights on a recurring payment. This is commonly used for subscriptions, you know, Netflix, Disney Plus, but people don't realise, in fact, what a recurring payment really is, is if you think about it, when you go into a shop, you give them your card, you say, take one payment.

13:10What you're actually saying to the firm is, I'm giving you my card details so you can take a payment when you want to take a payment. And each one of those payments is an individual payment. It just recurs. us. With the direct debit guarantee, it's actually far stronger. It's a specific thing. So if you want to cancel your direct debit guarantee, you just need to contact your bank and they must stop all future payments. If you dispute it because you say it's taken in error, it was taken on the wrong date, it's the wrong amount, it's taken without authority. With the direct debit, you must get an immediate refund from your bank, even before they go into the dispute process.

13:45So it's very powerful. With a recurring payment, while you should be able to stop it by going to your bank, I get lots of reports that sometimes that does not happen and they say you have to go to the payment provider. Disputing it is far more difficult. It's not instant. It can be declined. It depends on the card scheme rules, not a statutory guarantee. With a direct debit, you switch bank. It's moved automatically for you. With a recurring payment, you will have to move it yourself. So it is always worth being aware. If you are making a payment and they're asking you for the card details, not your bank account details.

14:19You have far, far fewer protections than you do if you're paying with an actual direct debit. Got it. And I thank you very much. And I'll call you later to discuss the ethics of what you've just done to me. People, please feel free to get in touch and say, if a three-option multiple-choice mastermind, one of the options is correct, what is ethically wrong by having two false options in it, which is all I did. That's the definition. Only one can be correct, Adrian. That is true. But you threw a red herring in because, you know, you said, you know, it wouldn't make any difference if you signed, whether or not you signed a direct debit agreement, which you're not going to get sent anyway.

14:59Well, you're not going to be sent one because it wasn't a direct debit. It was a recurring payment. So you'd never be sent one, of course. OK. All right. OK. I've got it. Love you, really. May your cold last. May your loogie last 48 hours longer.

15:17Hello, welcome to Martin's Money Mastermind, where I put a three-option multiple choice to Adrian. The current score is Adrian has got 13 right and 26 wrong, which means, Adrian, I have a new sting for you, which means, Adrian, here you go. N-B-R-C. That's you, Adrian. No better than random chance. That's our new sting whenever you're in this position that you are now no better than random chance. You want to do that, tell us desperately, don't you? Go on. Sharon got a packet of crisps, which just contained one large potato. I received a letter of apology and a box of 32 packets as a goodwill gesture.

16:00Brilliant, Sharon. Lovely. All right, let's get up with the mastermind. All right. So here you go. I'm walking around my house and I see a set of books lying around, mostly in pristine condition as no one has ever bothered to read them. There's one called The Good Drinker, How I Learned to Love Drinking Less, which is a sobering title. There's one called We Don't Know What We're Doing, which could have been written about this show. And finally, there's another one by the same author called The Curious Columns of Adrian Childs, which was disappointing as there was neither a Doric nor an Ionic in sight.

16:35Anyway, that's a little classical joke there. I was pleased with that one. Anyway, I decided to do some good and donate them to the local Lost Causes charity shop. It felt appropriate. The shopkeeper smiled with his crinkly eyes and said, it's funny, I've never seen a copy of any of those books that hasn't been pristine. Luckily... Oh, can you stop? How much more stick do you want to give? Go on, keep coming. Luckily, he accepts them anyway and asks me to sign up at that point to the retail gift aid scheme, which last time we talked about charity, you mentioned. So I know you know about it. So I'm giving you a question.

17:09Well, I've signed it. I wouldn't say I knew about it. Normal gift aid, as you know, allows a charity to claim back the basic rate tax someone has paid on a donation. But when you're giving a product like books, not cash, what is the claim based on? Is it A, the estimated price you, the donator, paid for the book? B, charities are expected to calculate a fair valuation and claim based on that? Or C, the eventual price the charity sells the book for? So is it the price you paid, the price they estimate they'll get, or the actual price they get only after sale? I think it's got to be after sale, so I'll go see.

17:50Final answer? Yep. Play the Hallelujah. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Does that mean I lose that random chance thing? You mean you're off random chance until you go back to it. You can now get too wrong before you go back. OK, so look, this is actually quite important to understand. The retail gift aid only kicks in when the charity actually sells your donated item, which means in the case of these books, there may never be any gift aid on the back of it. Now, in a way, you need to think that the charity is acting as your agent to sell the goods. And then when it does, it can claim gift aid of 25p per pound that you donated.

18:29And it will generally notify you at that point, which this is what people have to understand. And the reason it will notify you at that point is you can only claim gift aid if you've actually paid that amount of tax. So if it's in future, it could even be in a future tax year and you hadn't paid tax that year and someone claims gift aid on your behalf, you would actually have to pay that extra gift aid in terms of tax, which is why there's sort of a sloth in this system that when you give a product, you might have to wait for notification of what it earned and then recheck that you gave the gift aid and you could then opt out at that point of the gift aid that came through.

19:03if that makes sense. But you sparked that question by mentioning it when we talked about it, so I did a little bit of research on it. I thought that was quite interesting. And now the score is 14 right, 26 wrong, Adrian.

19:20Now, in our Money Mastermind, the current score is Adrian has got 13 wrong and 13 right and 25 wrong. You got the last one wrong and you are sniffling ever closer to not beating random chance. N-B-R-C. Very sweetly, you know, I turn over to a fresh page in my notebook. It makes no difference whatsoever. If I write anything down, it'll just be wrong anyway. But I'll just do it. And can I just make just a slight point here? I always talk about random chance. You'll hear it's 13 to 25. And there is someone who regularly writes in to say that I have this wrong because random chance would mean only getting a third right, not 50 % right.

20:02I have to say my maths here is right. If you have got 13 right and 25 wrong, yes, while 13 is just under 50 % of 25, of the total, which is 38 questions, 13 is just over a third. The maths is right. It's one in three. You're getting just over one. It's one in three, which means you would get one right and two wrong every three questions. I'm not having anybody telling you you're wrong, even if you are, which you never are. I'm 100 % right on this probability. OK, so now, Adrian, the question. Adrian, often I do my impression of you with a Westminster accent. Today, Adrian, you get a chance to do an impression of me.

20:42Right. Because this question is one I was asked by a caller called Matt on the Question Time podcast, which you are not involved in, that we also put out and goes out on a Monday and you should subscribe, a fortnight ago. So I'm going to ask you exactly the question I was asked and see how you do. Except you get three multiple choice options. OK. I was told by a dad on the school run a tip to add my eight-year-old daughter to my credit card as a cardholder to help start build her credit score to get credit of her own. Does it work? Which of these was my answer? Which is also the correct answer.

21:20Oh, naturally. A, yes, it will start to go in a foul and be a useful builder for when she's 18 and able to help her get credit? B, no, it doesn't work. C, no, it doesn't work because she's under 18. If she was over 18, it would work. I think it is C, on the assumption that what you do at the age of eight surely can't be held against you or even for you on your credit record. so I'll go see. Final answer. Play the uh-uh. Oh, not again. Adrian, I'm so disappointed that you're actually slightly angry here. About three minutes ago, we had a conversation where you mistakenly said that you can't have a joint current account.

22:13And I said, no, you're thinking of a credit card. You can't have a joint credit card. You can only have a second card holder. It isn't joint. and I was just, as I was asking that question, in my head I'm going, oh, shoot, I've just given the answer away three minutes ago. You've made the mistake. You're dealing with a Russian. And you've still got it wrong. You know, I quite enjoy being berated by you. I find it comforting. It takes me back to school and relationships. Just carry on, berate me a bit more. We've got another minute and a half. No, no, I need to explain. Look, so to everybody listening, although most of you will have got it because you were probably listening to the programme, The answer is you can't have a joint credit card.

22:56Now, the fact is no under 18, you're not going to get a credit file anyway because you can't have credit products. But you can't have a joint credit card. All that you can do is you can give someone else your card and they're spending on your account. It doesn't count as their card. It's not their card. It's not their credit. If they spend loads and don't pay it, it's still your debt. But what about if it was a joint bank account then? Well, on a joint bank account, yes, if it had an overdraft, still because there's no credit products under 18, it would be a struggle to get the overdraft and to work it in that particular way.

23:21But theoretically, you would be getting closer if we did it that way. But on a credit card system, the answer is a blunt, no, it doesn't work, no way, no how, and it wouldn't work if she were 104 either because it's just a second cardholder. So I'm afraid it was dads on the schoolroom. Is Adrian Childs on your schoolroom, Matt? Because, you know, I was told by dad on the schoolroom a tip to have my eight-year-old daughter. That tip does not work at all. A bit like Adrian does not work at all on the mastermind. All right, OK. But he's still AC, the coolest man on the radio. If only that were true.

23:56I apologise to you for not listening. I apologise for getting it wrong. I apologise to myself for revealing what a chump I am, AC or not. But always a pleasure, Martin. Thank you. Thank you, mate. A dark pleasure, admittedly. A masochistic pleasure, but a pleasure nonetheless. lesson.

24:17Welcome to my money mastermind, where I put Adrian under the cosh and test his financial knowledge. Now, he got the last one right, which means you have snuck above random chance, Adrian. In this three option multiple choice quiz, you have got 13 right and 24 wrong. So you can now I'll get two more wrong before you hit random chance again. I should, Coco, well done, my friend. Thank you. You're beating a drop of snot on a piece of paper to pick the answers. Right. Adrian, you've been invited to be the keynote speaker at Wolverhampton Wondrous Football Club's annual charity gala. Unlikely. Raising money for sick children, vulnerable elderly people and small, ill puppies.

25:06Cunningly, they know as a West Brom fan, this puts you in an awkward position. After all, it's wolves. But it's cute, ickle-pickle-sick puppies. And they sent pictures of the puppies. Now, the invite also includes a prominent note on how to donate. So you, seeing a solution here, hastily write back saying, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry I'm not available, but I will make a generous donation as a way out. Good solution. Well done, mate. The form, of course, includes gift aid notification. You're a UK taxpayer. So what I want to know is if a higher 40 percent rate taxpayer makes a donation to charity and correctly fills in the gift aid form, what happens?