Free money, £100s free insurance and more - all from switching bank accounts!

23:58Now, back then, I remember the figure was there was a£3 billion cross-subsidy from all those bank charges, all the poorest people who were going over their limit to all those people who had fee-free banking. and you still have a cross-subsidy now, all those people who are overdrawn, remember the standard overdraft rate on a bank account is 40%. That is, you know, a high street credit card is 24.9%. Bank account overdrafts are the most expensive form of mainstream debt that you can get. So the first reason that banking is free is because it isn't free for all those people who are overdrawn who are actually having a rather particularly expensive debt and they're sticking in debt and they're constantly in debt and they're constantly paying interest on it.

24:40And that's a form of cross-subsidy. But the secondary reason is potentially even bigger. And that is because your bank account is your building block. It's the foundations of all your finances. And when you do anything, there are lots of data that firms use. They can use your credit reference information. They use your application form information. But the real richness of data comes from your bank account and your bank account transactions. So by ownership of your bank account, ownership of the foundation, it is a core weapon for cross-selling. And there are many people out there who go to their bank when they have an issue with their finance.

25:19They need a credit card. They need a mortgage. They go to their bank and their bank is defined in many people's head as the bank that I have my current account with. So when you're getting a current account, the way banks view it is, you know, in fact, their profitability is often measured by what's called the cross-selling ratio. How many other products can we sell you? That's what you're giving them. When you give them your custom, it's fee free because they want to sell you lots of other stuff. Now, you know, someone like me will say, don't be loyal. Never think of it that way. Never think you have to get your credit card from your bank.

25:47Never think you have to get your mortgage from your bank. There's absolutely no reason or very little reason why your bank would be better. Only if you've, you know, got a bad credit score, but you've been behaving well with your bank, it might occasionally be nicer to you. So disloyalty pays when it comes to financial services. But that's not the behavioural attitude that many people have. And that's why banks really want your custom. It's why they give sweeties, not literal sweeties, on children's accounts and on student accounts, because often many people never change. Even in this world of churn, even with me being around for 20 years trying to counter it, still lots of people get a bank account when they're a kid or a student and they still have the same bank account 40 years later.

26:26And they've probably got their mortgage and their credit card with the same company. That's why you don't have to pay and And that's why they give you free money to make you switch. So you grab the money, but don't grab the loyalty. Banks should have a dummy website for you to try out their online banking interface. Now, that is a good idea. Not all banks do it well. It could be a strong deciding factor in switching. And also, you know, how long it takes you to call, you know, when you ring them, you actually want to speak to a human being. How long does it take for them to answer? Well, that's why First Direct wins the customer service polls, because it has UK-based call centres and they tend to answer pretty quickly.

27:05They did drop a little bit for a while, but it seems to be back now. Look, yes, it would be nice if all the banks did that. Clearly, the ones who don't like their app interfaces would be the ones less likely to do it. Although, from my perspective, I think we have seen there used to be much bigger differences between bank-by-bank apps five, six, seven years ago than they are now. I think they've all improved quite a lot. And it is worth noting that I do a lot of customer service polling over different sectors. Interestingly, banking tends to have a much higher score. We get a lot more greats in banking and current accounts, well, current accounts specifically, not banking generally, current accounts specifically, than we do, say, on energy or broadband.

27:44There are a lot more greats. So there's a lot less unhappiness with the service in banking than we get in other sectors. There's still a lot of very unhappy people. This is a relative comparison, not an absolute. When your switch bank account, says Heidi, should the bank be doing it for you or do you have to sort the switch out yourself? Well, if you're using their switching service, as I said before, they will always be doing it for you. If you decided to open an account without switching, then you don't use a switching service. You have to do it manually. The two things to watch the switching service doesn't cover, I mentioned earlier, recurring payments.

28:17There's also overdraft. So if you have an existing overdraft, even if you're going to a bank with a 0 % overdraft, although they're all small, you know, 250 quid is the biggest one, the first direct one, then what will generally happen is your old bank will say to you, do you want to pay off the overdraft or do you want to keep paying in installments? And therefore, in that case, your old account will not be closed as part of the seven-day switching service. You need to double check. It all works slightly differently bank by bank. And you would therefore have to potentially manually make sure payments coming to you are switched across.

28:48So there is a slight difference if you're overdrawn, but generally they do it all for you. And it is the bank you're switching to, not from. Yeah, it's switch-led. It's always the new bank who does everything for you. After all, they're the one with the vested interest because you're becoming their customer. Helen wants to know, how long is it acceptable to have an account open before she switches to benefit from the switch offers? So basically, how long... Is it a moral question? No, I think it's a practical one. Once you've got the money, unless there's any terms and conditions, then you are free to leave.

29:19The more interesting question is the other way around. How long do you have to not be a customer of a bank account in order to get it switched off for a second time? And most of them have now covered that. So often you can't get a switch bonus now. The rule is becoming more and more you can't get a switch bonus if you've had one before. Some of them will say you also can't have been a customer for, and they'll have a specified number of years, two or three or four years of that bank or any of its sister banks. so they are tightening up the rules of how often you get switch bonuses now so it's sort of a case this is why we get a lot of interest if we have a a current account provider who's never done a switch bonus before suddenly launches a switch bonus and all the people with the mule accounts that i was discussing early the regular switch is like oh i've not had that one i'm getting in there so uh that's the way it works uh tell us yes sure so the question is how do you balance work and life which do you prioritize and how do you get enough enjoyment while getting enough earning has it changed over the years i was interested in this one because partly because of a lot of the student loan consternation that's out there at the moment people on plan two student loans and if you do go listen back to the special podcast i put out on that a couple of weeks ago all about plan two loans both the politics and the practicals of what you should be doing And that was really what drove me to write this question.

30:42So if I do the first one, Stephen simply says, the less you want, the richer you are. It's about finding how much you can live with or live without and truly being happy with your lot. What a wonderful way to think about it. I'm not sure how you put that in practice, but it's a good way to think about it. Graham, the second I leave work, I leave everything to do with work at the office and switch off completely to go home. I live for the weekends. You're a long time dead, and if I die tomorrow, I'll be replaced at work without too much fuss. So life comes first. How do you do that, Graham? I would like to listen to your podcast, Graham, on how you manage to leave work at the office and switch off.

31:23I am hideously bad at that. You, Adrian? Well, that's my best answer to that. It's like there's a Croatian woman, actually my Croatian language teacher is in her 60s, and she said something to me once. She said, in the time of Yugoslavia under Tito, there was this kind of unwritten rule that they lived by the rule of eight, which was every day should be eight hours work, eight hours home, leisure, family time, eight hours sleep. Eight, eight, eight. Now, what my wife says to me is that my life every day is neither work nor rest. It's sort of every day is a mixed up bit of both. I'm never not working and I'm never kind of not resting in some way.

32:07So we both got it wrong. Yeah. Graham, we need your help. We do. Catherine. Yeah. After having my surprise baby aged 45, I went back to work full time as my husband retires and looks after him. But I must admit I hated it. So I dropped a day with compressed hours. A lot of people mentioning compressed hours here. There are a lot of people doing those really long days, but for far fewer days a week. I work three longer days and finish for the week at 11am Thursday. day. It feels better and will have to do until that lottery premium bond win comes my way. Compressed hours came up a lot. What have you got?

32:40Melissa I'm 30 years old since 2024. I've worked the fewest number of contracted hours since I started working age 16. Now contracted 39 hours daytime. I do compressed hours. Compressed hours. Three times 13 hour shifts with four days off a week. I'm lucky to have a mortgage rather than renting. I live within my means and don't do any overtime. I enjoy having free time and days off. I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me, really, because you're saving on travelling and commuting time. I suppose I was thinking about my own work patterns. So I've normally done, by the time I get to Wednesday, because I have my show on a Tuesday and I write the weekly email on a Monday and I'm in meetings with my team on a Wednesday and preparing for the podcast and all that, by Wednesday evening I've normally done about 36, 37 hours of work because I start on a Sunday night, to be fair.

33:34That's when I start my work. And then Thursday, I have a bit of an easier morning. I come in, I do the podcast, and I do lots of stuff and prep afterwards. And then on Friday, I do a half day. So I suppose, in a way, I work compressed hours. I probably do a 50-hour week. When I was building my website and all that, I was on a 70, 80 hours a week. So 50 hours doesn't seem particularly hardcore anymore. So maybe I'm a compressed hours too. Heidi, I work four days a week, and I do work a bit on weekends. I work four days a week, and I've done for the last 18 years. I'd be interested to know if I did the same work as my five-day week colleagues, but it's hard to quantify.

34:05I'd earn a lot more money by going full-time, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I think I've got the balance right. Next one's interesting, Adrian. Maybe we stop. We do two more and then we stop. Okay. Very simple. Who's this? Yes, this is, well, it's at, out on chain, whatever that means. But you build your own business and earn your own money and work your own hours. until you take the leap, you'll forever be a rat on the wheel of life. But if you're working for yourself, it's even harder to manage your time, isn't it? I have never had a boss as demanding, unforgiving, as absolutely uncompromising as I ever, when I was working for other people than I have since I worked for myself.

34:47Do you berate yourself? Well, I don't have time. I'm just, like, telling myself to get onto it. How do you discipline yourself? Well, I'm very disciplined. The problem is, because it's me, I just keep going and you keep pushing. And all of those sort of work-life balances that you're meant to have when you're an employee and all the things that people think of you of, you just don't even bring them into consideration. You know, listen, I sometimes present breakfast television. That's up at four in the morning. And then in the evening, there's news night. Can you come on news night? And I'm going, I shouldn't do it.

35:17And then I feel, well, it's an important issue and I feel the need to get the message. Can you concede what your life would be like? Would it be any simpler if you're working for somebody and you had to turn up at eight in the morning and you're free to leave at six? You just work your socks off all day and then I've never had a clear desk in what I do. I haven't had a clear desk for 25 years. And that's what I dream of. I dream of having nothing left on the list of things to do. Now, I should say, technically, with the website, I am an employee. But I have, you know, I am an employee who sets my own work terms and I work a lot harder than my minimum requirements that I do so there.

35:49So it's never mentioned. so effectively I'm still working for myself in the way that I operate but a clear desk would be amazing I've never had one you may be doing what you do don't you because you finish a programme and then you've got a new programme the next day is that clear desk? Yeah there's that but then yes but yeah yes except you know there's others I'm always thinking worrying about the next programme or trying to write something and worrying about that and you always if you need to write a column you're always looking around what am I going to write next week looking around for something to happen.

36:21You know, if I tripped over and banged my head, I mean, as long as I survived, I'd think, oh, I could make a column out of this, possibly. Yeah, I've read some of your columns, you could. I've made a column out of less than that. Right, let's do a final one, which I think, well, you know, I'm not woe is me-ing, because let's do Lilith balance. What is balance? I'm up at 5.30, leave at 6.30, work 8 till 4, home 5.30 to 6, depending on buses, cook, eat, shower, and it's back to bed. And I think that, that treadmill of the consistency, you know, consistency of work being absolutely dominant and not the balance, it's a particular disease in Western countries, especially in English-speaking Western countries.

37:00I think they have the balance better on the continent.

37:05Questions about package bank accounts. Indeed, yes. We're going to start with Kim. Kim is speaking to us from Chester Zoo. She's just come out of the lizard and snake enclosure. Any problems to report, Kim? You survived? No nips? Yes, we did survive, yes. Okay. I love you. A herpetological visit. How exciting. So, go on. So, what's your question, Kim? So, I've got a young family. We've got a three-year-old and a seven-month-old. My husband is American, so we do a lot of worldwide travel to go back and see his family, and also to get the kids out and about. So Turkey this year, Paris this year, we're driving.

37:46So for me, it's sort of, I've looked at, and we've currently got a year's travel insurance, like a family package, but they're so expensive. I was looking at, well, is there an alternative that I could get through a bank? And if so, what's the best one that would cover the whole family that would be worldwide and that would actually give us kind of the same sort of cover that you could get through buying a policy yourself? Well, pretty much all of the packaged bank accounts, a packaged bank account, just to re-explain for people, they call it a packaged bank account. I tend to think of it as a as a multi-pack insurance product linked to a bank account.

38:21It's far more about the insurance than it is the bank account. So there's a whole host of them. And the real thing is, are you going to use the other insurances at the same time? So I'm guessing, who's the oldest person in your family that you travel with? 34. Oh, OK, so you're all very young. Yeah. That's all fine, yeah, because they often have age limits. Some are 69, some are 79, that type of thing. So we haven't got an age limit. Second question, do you drive? Yes, we do. Do you have breakdown cover? Yes. OK, because most of these policies, they give you worldwide or European travel, tends to be family.

39:03They give you a former breakdown cover as well. So you would be using it to replace your breakdown cover too. And then how old are your kids, if I can ask? Three and seven months. Okay. So they don't have mobile phones. I'm hoping otherwise we might have to have a different conversation. Right. So you've got two mobile phones in the family, although I don't know if any of them are corporate mobile, so they might already be covered. So mobile phone insurance, the other one, and actually often the most lucrative. If you've got, if you're a family of four or five and you've got teenagers living at home who have their own smartphones, then that insurance, five insurance packages, I know this isn't for you, but just for everybody else listening, you're covering five mobile smartphone insurance, then the package bank account cost is easily covered just by the fact that they're giving you mobile phone insurance.

39:48So let me run through some of them. I mentioned the HSBC Premier before, that's only for higher earners. That gives you worldwide travel insurance up to age 69 and is fee free. And currently it's paying£250 to switch. Most people won't be able to get that, though. So probably my overall top pick at the moment is the Santander Edge Explorer. Now, it's not the cheapest. It costs£17 a month. But currently, if you switch to it, it gives you£200. So that effectively means you get the first 11 months for free because 17 months goes into£200 11 times. It has worldwide family travel insurance family so that's a family covers everyone including winter sports it gives you UK and European breakdown cover for the account holder so assuming you're in a trusted relationship even if only one of you is going to use the account you put both your names on it that way you both get the cover for the UK and European breakdown cover and that includes home assistance and onward travel and it covers all the mobile phones in your household so if you look at that how much you paying for your travel insurance?

40:55I think it's about£150 for the year last time. So, well, this account is basically, you know, just a little over£200, but you'd also get your breakdown cover and you get your mobile phone cover in. So, and you're getting£200 for free. So you can see how that's a winner. Just for everybody listening, let me run through a couple of other things. I'll go through the ones that are paying you free cash. Nationwide FlexPolace, a very popular one, very good travel insurance for older people, this one. £175 for free and it's£18 a month so you get nine months free. Worldwide family travel insurance, no age limit although pre-existing conditions we have to discuss.

41:29Again includes winter sports. UK and European breakdown cover for account holders including home assistance and onward travel and all the handsets in a household all the mobile phones are covered on that one as well. You've got the co-op bank everyday extra £100 up front and£25 a month for three months so£175 for free is also£18 a month. World family travel insurance up to£79 including winter sports uh on your car uk and european breakdown cover including home assistance and your phone is only cover for account holders but you can see all i mean i think at the moment because of the free cash and it's slightly cheaper than nationwide i think santander is probably the winner but how does it what do you think um it sounds good i've just noticed that some of them have um sort of a you have to deposit a certain amount and being on maternity leave obviously there's a period where we don't have much.

42:19So can you kind of transfer from savings? With Santander, you need to have a one-off£1 ,500 to go in to get the switch bonus, the 200 quid. So you're paying£1 ,500, you could pay that in from your savings, and the next day you can withdraw that and put it back in your savings. And then you've qualified. You also need two active household direct debits to be coming from it to qualify. and the others are slightly similar they're all different but they work in a roughly similar type of format so that hopefully makes that doable for you definitely yes that's great and it's always you don't tend to have to tell them you've got the insurance but it's always worth registering what phones you've got and giving them as much information when you sign up as possible just because it's it makes issues easier to deal with later on great perfect which enclosure are you off to next um we are just at the meerkats okay yeah well send them out are they peaking up we're not you're not allowed to say meerkats on a financial program oh no sorry sorry yeah what you're not allowed to do especially is go and measure them up against each other to see which is taller right that is particularly banned okay uh listen kim thanks very much for uh for calling are we ready for you know what yet well yeah okay yeah let's go straight to mass And what I'm going to do, I know loads of people have questions about pre-existing conditions on package bank accounts and stuff.

43:40I'm going to cover all that in the podcast. So you'll be able to hear it in the pod extras that we do in the pod. Yeah, play the Mastermind theme tune.

43:54Hello, everybody. Welcome to Money Mastermind. Adrian, the score stands at 16 right and 32 wrong in this three option multiple choice quiz, which means you're doing N-B-R-C. No better than random chance, although it is an improvement on last week, I do have to say, because last week you actually got one right, although that was written by AI, that particular question. This one is all written by me. So, listeners, you may not know this, but off air, one of Adrian's little peccadillos is that he is a Luginophile. That's someone who gets enjoyment, a Frisian, some might even say mild arousal about doing household financial admin, a loginophile.

44:39Any rumours that it's because obliquely he gets to think of me while doing it are almost entirely false. So much to his delight the other day, he was going through his home insurance renewal, answering the questions, taking his time drooling over each added entry. Now, as I never want to deny Adrian joy, never, never, never, never, never, I have designed today's question to elongate his pleasure, which I've just realised is probably not the best phrasing. Look, as long as you're amusing yourself, Martin, that's the main thing. I am, I am. I'm happy by discussing it in detail. So, Adrian, after all of that, today's question.

45:15Which of these three things do you think, as a loginophile, would most impact your home insurance price? A, the type of locks you have. B, the number of bathrooms you have or C, the number of bedrooms you have. In changing it or in a renewal, those things wouldn't have changed, would they? No, so we're talking as a straight fact, well, you might have changed your lock type. You might, you know, if you were buying, if you're getting home insurance, which of those three is the biggest factor for increasing the cost, obviously? Lock type, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms. Oh, I would say number of bathrooms because there's probably more...

46:03Tell me, Clare, what do you think of lock type? Well, lock types to do... The type of locks you've got. How secure your locks are. Look, I'm looking for the trick question here because obviously you're trying to draw me into talking about locks. I know, I'm going to get to read for you too. Look, locks is the obvious one because you would... You know, security is important. So common sense would dictate the better your locks, the better your locks, the better your premium. But I've filled in loads of those insurance things. I don't ever recall being asked what kind of locks I've got. Oh, you do get asked that.

46:40Do you? Yeah, you get asked all these questions. A number of bathrooms? That was your current favourite? I think number of bathrooms, because I think there's probably claims related to leaks, which there wouldn't be regarding a bedroom, depending on what you're claiming for, about what's going on in the bedroom. So I would say bathrooms. Final answer? Mm-hm. So, OK, so that's your answer is locked in. Producer Simon, I think we should have a sort of locked-in theme for the future. Can you work on that? I think we need a tension bed now. Anyway, well, at that point, let's start. Bathrooms, mid-level impact less than you think.

47:17So let's do an uh-uh. there's your uh-uh I'm afraid that is wrong okay locks of all three is actually the one with the least impact and that's the main reason I'm doing the question um if you shift your locks from adequate to fancy it rarely shifts the pricing deal I mean it might make your home more secure so I'm not saying don't do it but interesting we ran hundreds of thousands of quotes to get this data and I was very surprised at how little impact in most cases the type of locks you have on the price that you pay. So they're asking it, but it isn't making the impact in the way that you'd think.

47:49By far, the biggest of all of them is quite simply the number of bedrooms, because it's quite a proxy for the size of your house, effectively, and how many people will be in your house. So number of bedrooms is the correct answer. But the real reason for doing the question was to say to people, you will be surprised that Loctite doesn't actually dictate your price anywhere near as much as you thought. So if you're thinking of going and getting expensive lots to try and cut your home insurance policy, it's unlikely to do that. But that is daft, isn't it? It's actuarial. It's based on risk. OK, but it's still the right thing to do to have the best locks possible.

48:24Yes, but we shouldn't behave solely due to our home insurance policy, but we're just saying it doesn't affect the price. OK, but if it's actuarial, you think and it was that, you know, the burnt data, they'd just demand a square footage of your house instead of going the number of... I've got a few more tips. I'll put a few more tips on this in the podcast. We've run out. The music's playing up and I've got to shut up. Thanks for having me. OK, we are into the pod-only extra section now. And as you can hear, the music was playing as I was doing the end of Mastermind with Adrian. And between you and I, if you work on Five Live, you know that when the end of the hour music is being played in your ear, that is equivalent to a very large and scary person shouting at you, shut your mouth now, which is how you receive it because it's what's called a hard out into the news that you are not allowed to miss.

49:21So I cut off in my prime as I was talking to you about home insurance. I'm going to talk to you a couple more things about it. When we're talking home insurance, there's a few mistakes that people make. First thing to say is it's usually only freeholders that need buildings cover because home insurance is made up of buildings cover and content cover. If you are a leaseholder and renting, then it should be whoever owns the freehold that has the buildings cover. Whereas contents cover is useful for everybody. Now, when you're looking at your buildings cover, you need to make sure you include that it is the rebuild value of the house that you are insuring, not your house's value.

49:58House's value has a big impact on where your house is. I mean, the rebuild value does too, because different costs of building in different areas. The rebuild value is literally, if your house was knocked down, how much would it cost to rebuild it? There's a good calculator on the ABI website and recent data came out that up to 70 % of people may simply be insuring the wrong amount. So it's worth checking when you do your home insurance, do an update next time you do it, that your rebuild value is correct. Now, when it comes to contents insurance, the big concern there is people who under-insure.

50:32And the reason that tends to happen is people go through this logical process in their head. They think, well, I may have£50 ,000 worth of stuff, and you often have more stuff than you think when you think how much it would cost to replace as new, but I would never claim for£50 ,000. So I'm only going to get contents cover for£25 ,000 because that's the maximum I would claim. And then they have a claim and someone from the insurance company comes because your£4 ,000 sofa has been damaged in a way that's covered by their home insurance. They come and they have a look and and go, well, you've got 50 grand's worth of contents.

51:02You only insured£25 ,000 worth. Therefore, we're only going to pay out half the claim because you were undercovered. That's the problem with undercovering contents that you need to be careful of too. When you're getting your home insurance, you know, combine comparison sites. That's always the way to do it because they are marketplaces, not comparison sites. Not only do they cover different companies, but they can have different prices for the same insurers. And there's a whole host more that I'll do another point. We'll go into home insurance in more detail. A final few things that you might find interesting on the back of what I was telling Adrian about what does count and what doesn't count and really has an impact on price.

51:35Low impact is if you're a homeowner or tenant, if you're a smoker, your age, your marital status, lock type, patio doors, accessible windows, burglar alarm, all have a low impact on your home insurance cost. Medium impact, number of inhabitants, number of bathrooms and the property age. High impact, any past claims you've had, any convictions you've had, bankruptcy, flooding, subsidence, the number of bedrooms, any current building work. If you've got building work going on, it really pushes the price up. Is the property listed and what the walls are made from, the material of the walls? Those are the things that really affect the price you're paying on home insurance.

52:13And I think that's probably a good point to stop. We'll do more on insurance if you get some questions in. I can cover some more on that in the future.

52:22Now though, I should introduce PPS Podcast producer Simon, how are you mate? I'm absolutely buzzing, delighted to be here I know people listen to these podcasts at different times We are recording the week of Valentine's Day So you know, great to be speaking to you Are you going, how you doing? How you doing? Roses are red, violets are blue, Martin Lewis I love making podcasts with you Aww, that's very sweet, thank you so much Now I'm just thinking what we need to tidy up quite a lot more questions on package bank accounts, I think. So why don't we get straight into that? There is, to be fair, quite a lot of evidence that it works.

52:54Steve got in touch saying that my package bank account is certainly worth it. Worldwide travel insurance, which is used twice to claim phone insurance and car breakdown insurance, much cheaper than purchasing separately. So it's really interesting because I went for years, I ran quite a big campaign about missold package bank account insurance because we had many people who were told they had to get package bank account cover when, you know, they weren't going travelling and they weren't using the cover and they were paying fees for their accounts, which were totally unnecessary. And we got people a lot of money back.

53:23Now, that's quite a long time ago now. And lots more checks and suitability checks of the insurance have been put in place, which means mis-selling is nowhere near as rife as it once was. But the point about package bank accounts is if it works for you, they really work for you. But you need to be the type of person who would be buying all the insurance policies anyway. So what else have you got? What are they asking? So Alison wants to know, is insurance with the bank worth it for just one person? So I'm thinking, let's take the cheapest standard policy. I'll ignore the free cash because clearly, you know, something like Santander Edge or Nationwide or Co-op, where they're paying you free money for a year and covering all your insurance is a saving for anyone, even if it's only one of you.

54:05But if we'll look at the question, what happens after that? What happens once, you know, you've got the free cash and it's sort of been used up paying a year's worth of packaged bank account fees. Well, if we take, there's a new one out this week, actually, it's the Chase packaged bank account. I think that's the lowest monthly fee on the market. It costs£12.50 a month. So what are we talking? We're talking about 150 quid a year, roughly, aren't we? So for£150, you get worldwide travel and mobile phone insurance and UK breakdown cover. So the honest way to answer that question is, how much would you be paying for those insurances if you were buying them standalone?

54:41Well, I don't know what mobile phone you have, so that would dictate the cost of your mobile phone. Do you travel abroad? Is it worldwide? Do you need family cover? Clearly, if you're single, you don't. So you just need a single policy, which is from£9 a month. It's a mathematical equation. Think of it as a yearly cost and look at the insurance that you would be buying otherwise. If its yearly cost is less than the insurance you would be buying otherwise, then the packaged bank account is worth it. If it's not, don't do it just go and get yourself the best and the cheapest standalone insurance of that you do need.

55:10Nicole's got in touch with an issue that quite a lot of people got in touch with actually in terms of the travel insurance that's included how does it work if you have health issues? So effectively what is happening when you sign up to Package Bank Account Travel Insurance is you are being given a free annual travel insurance policy that covers all your trips away in the year so you need to check that it's suitable for you many annual travel insurance policies and the package bank account ones are no different. We'll give you a maximum number of days away that you can be covered. Maybe it'll be 31 days away type thing.

55:39So that's worth checking. And then that annual policy is being automatically renewed each year by the bank as long as you have the package bank account. So you, just like with any travel insurance policy, need to declare pre-existing conditions. And it's very important to do so or your travel cover may be invalid and you won't be able to claim. So you need to tell them what's going to happen. When you do so, one of three things will happen. First, they'll say, yep, no problem, you're covered. Second, they'll say, yep, no problem, you're covered, but we want you to pay as an additional premium, extra money on top because you have pre-existing conditions.

56:11Or third, they will say, you aren't covered. Now, because one of those three things that can happen with most banks, what I would suggest is you set the switching service to switch maybe a couple of weeks ahead so that you start the switch you apply you find out what the insurance is you then declare your pre-existing conditions to the insurer you check what's going to happen if you want it you carry on with the switch if you don't want it you cancel the switch before it's in effect nationwide flex plus has a decent system which i haven't seen on the others but i may have missed it so i'll give myself a slight caveat there which in the application they ask whether you need a quote for pre-existing conditions and they will tell you how to get in touch with their insurer which happens to be a before you start your application so you can make an informed decision.

56:58So that is roughly how it works, but they can be decent value. Jane has a question on a similar theme. She says, we are over pension age with pre-existing health conditions. Which bank offers a travel insurance for this, please? Well, they all have age limits. Some are 69, some are 74, some are 79. Nationwide doesn't set a specific age limit. And unfortunately, it just depends on your pre-existing conditions. but I'm good so you it's a checking question but I'm going to read you a couple of success stories I've had on this to sort of which I think probably more eloquently than I can do explain how it works so I have got this one here my wife and I are 82 and have pre-existing medical conditions last year our policy with stay sure European cover alone cost 967 pounds this year their proposed renewal would have cost 1249 pounds thanks to your suggestion of nationwide flex plus I've untaped worldwide cover for a premium of£273.

57:52So that'll be on top of the bank account, but still all added in is way cheaper than was being quoted elsewhere. Next one, I have a condition called ulcerative colitis. So insurance is always going to be more expensive when travelling. I was looking for quotes. It was coming back at an astonishing£300 to£400 for two weeks, which I thought was ridiculous. I looked at packaged bank accounts, which have travel insurance involved. So I found the co-op account and I had to pay a one-off payment, extra payment of£55 for my condition to be covered. That's the point. So this is not a case that in general, if you've got a serious pre-existing medical condition, they're going to say it's fine.

58:28It can happen. But you may find that the additional premium on top of the cover that you're getting automatically may not be as heavy as going for the travel insurance directly when you're paying for it all in one go. But I do need to say it's elbow grease not everybody makes it work this way it is just a question of trial and error Paul got in touch I'm keen to know about how the packaged insurance for bank accounts compares to the best providers if it's automatically provided as a benefit so it's actually often pretty good cover I mean when we look at it and we compare it tends to be better than what I would call the no frills cover I often talk about which is just the belt of braces of someone who wants a policy that they're going away and they don't want that much and it isn't bad it's getting close to some of what I'd call the top value cover, which is where we factor in feedback.

59:13So on that spectrum, I think it tends to be at the higher end. You know, it tends to be at the higher end of cover. But look, this is insurance. And as I always say with insurance, the problem with insurance is you're getting cover to cover you for an eventuality you don't know whether it will happen. So there is no way to check whether you'll be covered for that specific eventuality because we don't know whether it'll happen. And there are both known unknowns that you can check. Well, if this happened to me, would I be covered? But there are also the unknown unknowns that you can't check. The classic example I give on travel insurance is the Icelandic volcano, which I think was 2008, which nobody knew was coming and stopped people flying.

59:51And so no one had ever checked that that policy was covered for volcanic dust stopping people travelling. So the only way you can do that is look attitudinally, is this the type of policy that would pay out for a totally unexpected circumstance. And when I talk about the better value rather than the no frills cover, they're the ones that generally do, but there's no guarantees. And we tend to find that the package bank account policies tend to be closer to that. So they're pretty decent. But comparing insurance other than price is a nightmare because it's based on unexpected eventualities. And our final question on this one comes from Elaine.

1:00:27She's had attached travel insurance for many years. They've just had a letter through saying that they will no longer renew it this year. I'm nearly 72 and the policy is supposed to be up to the age of 80. Can they just cancel it? Yes. You do not have an automatic right. Now, if they're cancelling it, they shouldn't be charging you for the packaged bank account because you're not getting the fee. I would be asking them, is it possible to pay for a premium? And I'd be looking to go elsewhere. But I'm afraid you don't have an automatic right to insurance as long as they are cancelling it in advance and not retrospectively.

1:00:55So they're saying we're not because remember, I said, In effect, you're getting an annual travel insurance policy that's just automatically being renewed by the bank because you have the packaged bank account and you're paying the monthly fee. So if they're saying we're not going to cover you when your current policy runs out, well, that's the same as if you went to get an annual travel insurance policy and they said, sorry, we're not going to cover you. It's the same thing. So, yes, they can do that unless they're doing it in a discriminatory way, which is unfair. Then, of course, you could make a complaint under the consumer duty.

1:01:23but I suspect it's just I'm afraid you no longer fit our requirements for cover which is much more difficult well that seems a very good place to stop I think we've covered a lot in that I'm looking forward to listening to this if you're wondering what's he mean listening to this so let me a little bit of a secret how it works what happens next is Simon goes away and he puts together the bit that I recorded with Adrian and this bit and a couple of extra links I've added in to make it all sound very smooth and he wraps them all together and then he sends it to me so I can just put my ear to it later because I like to hear it because I'm an obsessive control freak.

1:01:55But I listen to myself at two times speed because I have already recorded to it. And I go through and occasionally I come back with a note saying, oh, I think we might need an extra link there because it didn't really make sense. But normally it's absolutely brilliant. So I'm looking forward to listening to it. Thank you, Simon.

1:02:11That's it for this week. We tend to put out a new episode every Thursday and Monday. The Monday one is our Question Time podcast where you can ask me absolutely anything and everything. If you've enjoyed today's podcast, please do tell your friends you've been listening to the Martin Lewis podcast. And why not subscribe? After all, then your pockets will be pleased with you. And if you've not enjoyed it, well, this has been Newscast. Ta-ta.

1:02:50Martin Lewis is the founder of MoneySavingExpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing martinlewispodcast at bbc.co.uk. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double-checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

1:03:26If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.