Last Chance! Boost State Pension by £10,000s: a must listen if age 40 to 73

13 Mar 2025 · 1 h

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The Martin Lewis Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title

Last Chance! Boost State Pension by £10,000s: A Must Listen if Age 40 to 73

Description

In this episode, Martin Lewis urgently discusses how individuals aged between 40 and 73 can significantly increase their state pension by addressing missing National Insurance years. He provides a step-by-step guide and answers listener questions, emphasizing the impending deadline for taking action.

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Key Points and Discussions

Introduction

  • Host: Martin Lewis
  • Significance: The episode addresses a time-sensitive and lucrative opportunity to boost state pensions by tens of thousands of pounds.
  • Deadline: Listeners must act before the 5th of April to top up missing National Insurance years from 2006 to 2019.

Understanding National Insurance and State Pension

  • National Insurance Contributions:
  • Each year of sufficient contributions is likened to earning a "token" for the state pension fund.
  • Threshold: £6,396 annually is needed to earn a full National Insurance year.
  • Importance: 10 years are required to qualify for any state pension, and 35 years are needed for the maximum benefit.
  • Potential Shortfalls: Missing years can arise due to:
  • Low income
  • Time spent abroad
  • Career breaks
  • Not claiming entitled credits

Importance of the Deadline

  • Cut-off Date: The ability to buy back missing years ends on 5th April 2025.
  • Consequences: Post-deadline, individuals can only buy back years since 2019, potentially losing out on 13 years of contributions, which could amount to approximately £100,000 over a lifetime.

Steps to Check Missing Contributions

  1. Online Check:
  2. Visit gov.uk to check National Insurance records.
  3. Identify years that are not marked as full and review options for purchasing these years.
  1. Free Credits: Discussed three main types:
  2. Child Benefit Credits: Available for parents who are not working and have children under 12.
  3. Specified Adult Child Care Credits: For relatives (often grandparents) who care for children.
  4. Carer’s Credit: For those providing unpaid care for eligible individuals.

Financial Calculations and Considerations

  • Cost vs. Benefit:
  • Full Class 3 national insurance contributions for missing years cost about £800; Class 2 for self-employed individuals is around £180.
  • The return on investment for buying years calculated at £330 increase per additional year.
  • Break-even point is approximately 2.5 years, highlighting a strong financial incentive to buy back years if approaching retirement age.
  • Eligibility for Pension Credit:
  • For low-income individuals, if income falls below £220 for singles or £340 for couples, buying back years may not be necessary as they would qualify for Pension Credit.

Listener Questions and Answers

  • Contracting Out: Discussed the implications of having contracted out of the state pension scheme and how it affects entitlements.
  • Personal Cases: Listeners shared their unique circumstances, allowing Martin to provide tailored advice regarding whether to buy back missing years based on individual forecasts.

Conclusion

  • Urgency: Stress on the importance of acting quickly to secure potential benefits.
  • Encouragement: Martin urged listeners to share the podcast information with others who may benefit from the advice.

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Key Takeaways

  • Act Before Deadline: Anyone aged 40 to 73 should evaluate their National Insurance records before 5th April to maximize their state pension.
  • Complexity of Pension System: The state pension system incorporates many nuances; personal circumstances greatly affect financial decisions.
  • Seek Professional Advice: For complex cases or uncertainties, reaching out to Future Pension Centre is recommended for personalized guidance.

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Additional Resources

  • For detailed information and next steps, listeners should refer to:
  • [gov.uk National Insurance Record](https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record)
  • [Future Pension Centre Contact](https://www.gov.uk/contact-pension-service)

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This summary encapsulates the essential points from the episode, providing clarity on the actions required to boost state pensions through National Insurance contributions.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcast. Hello, I'm Martin Lewis and this is the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. Now, usually much of it comes from my BBC Radio 5 live show with Adrian Childs, but don't worry, there's bonus money-saving tips just for you lucky, lucky podcast listeners. Now, today's pod is serious, important and urgent. The 5th of April is the last chance people have to top up missing national insurance years from between 2006 to 2019. And these can add literally tens of thousands of pounds to the amount you will get in your state pension.

0:41It is the most lucrative subject I'll talk about and is a must listen for anybody between the ages of 40 and 73. It is going to be complex. I'm going to take you through it step by step, but it's absolutely worth it. I'll be including how to check if you can get missing years for free. the impact of contracting out, what happens if the state pension is means tested, how it interacts with pension credit and more. There's also been big car finance mis-selling news, which could bring millions more people into the chance of having a possible payout. And this week's Mastermind is all about how does tax work on joint savings accounts.

1:23Let's get on with it. Play the theme tune.

1:31I got to pay, so I'm going to work for the world and everything. I got to pay, so I'm going to make sure everybody eats. And poor Martin Lewis is here, and I say poor because he's croaking, he's coughing, he's spluttering. Honestly, you've come in anyway. VCs have been one for less, Martin. If it wasn't, the main topic wasn't one that is very time sensitive and probably the most lucrative thing I've talked about in the last five years, I would have taken the day off. But it's really important information and we need to do it quickly. The big thing we're talking about today is the last chance to boost your state pension by tens of thousands of pounds.

2:13I'm going to talk about car finance mistending too. I'm going to talk about savings for the mastermind on the tax. But I think this will set up why it's so important today. I got this from Tracy. She messaged me. Thank you so much to bringing this to my attention before the cut-off. This is about national insurance and the state pension. I've lived in Jersey Channel Islands for 25 years, so I thought this wouldn't apply to me. But to my surprise, it did. I had 11 years of contributions already from time spent living in the UK. I've now paid an additional 18 years of missing Class 2 national insurance contributions, so that's self-employment, which cost me just under£3 ,000.

2:51This has increased my UK pension from£70 a week to£183 a week. I only have to pay a further six years to get the full pension pot. As it stands, I reckon, remember it's costed£3 ,000. I reckon this has given me an additional£5 ,900 of state pension per year. if I live 20 years, that is an incredible£118 ,310 and 40 pence extra. But there is a hard cut off on this. You have to be thinking about this now. You need to spread the word to anybody you know, especially those aged between 40 and 73. The deadline's the 5th of April, but you need to be getting on it quicker. I'm going to talk you through everything in detail.

3:39We're going to do it as a structured chat and then do questions at the end. What you've got to do, Martin, is when you start getting passionate and for emphasis, you've got to lower your voice and whisper today. Come closer to the microphone. Wave your fist in the air like you were there and I can see the veins pulsing on your temples. We've got to look after you. We've got to get you through this whole hour. It's funny, I haven't spoken for two days because I've been on vocal rest and it's actually rather bizarre to hear my voice coming out of my own mouth. I've not spoken to my wife, to my daughter.

4:10You're the first person I've spoken to, Adrian. Oh, your missus must have enjoyed the peace and quiet. Must have done. So car finance, you just want to mention that first. Yeah, so we had a big announcement that came out on Tuesday morning from the regulator, the FCA, about car finance. So you will know there are two different car finance mis-selling stories going on. There's the one I've talked about a lot. We've done it in the podcast and on here, which is discretionary commission arrangements. That's where car dealers and brokers were allowed to increase the interest rate. They charged people without telling people they were increasing the interest rate.

4:44I mean, they were just told this is the interest rate you're getting and therefore they could get more commission. That was banned in January 2021. But I've had over two million template letter complaints sent through my own website for complaints between 2007 and January 2021. And that's a regulator based system. Then, in shock in the middle of last year, a claims firm bought a case. It went to the Court of Appeal and their case, because discretionary commission arrangements is only 40 % of car finance deals, their case affects all car finance deals. And what they were saying is, if firm did not declare exactly how much the commission was and the terms in the agreement, then that was a breach.

5:24And the Court of Appeal surprisingly upheld that. I mean, my jaw dropped to the floor. The regulator was stunned by this. That is going through the Supreme Court between the 1st to the 3rd of April. It'll probably take a month and a half before we get a decision after that. What the regulator has now said is whatever happens, well, it's doing a consultation on this, but it's one of those consultations where it's almost certain to happen, but technically it's a consultation. It will now do an industry-wide redress scheme. And what that means is instead of people having to complain to get their money, it will have a scheme where it tells the car finance firms, of financial companies to look at everybody who was missold, to identify them and to pay them back using a regulator-based algorithm of how much money people should get back.

6:09Now, there are two things still out there. Now, that's huge. It's not complain and get, it's you're going to be their contact and get you. Yes, many people ask me questions, what if I've moved house? What if they don't have my details? We don't know yet. This is broad principle as opposed to specifics. The big outstanding questions is what is the misselling? Now, a lot of that will depend on what the Supreme Court decides. I think if you want me to sum up the most likely outcome, and you can read more details on my social media feeds of exactly how this will work, because I want to focus on state pension stuff today.

6:38The most likely outcome, I think, is the Supreme Court will probably overturn the Court of Appeal on the big 99 % of commission cases, and the regulator will continue with the discretionary commission arrangements, and that will be done by an automatic payout system. So it's a watch this space, but it is a big update on car finance payouts. But do go and read a little bit more than I've written on that because we're going to focus on another subject today.

7:04The subject in question, state pension top-ups. A deadline quickly approaching. We're going to go through it together first. I'm going to say as little as possible. Gentle prompts because I'm actually, I'm listening and learning. I understand this in flashes, but I always need, I always need reminder. And I think listeners need to know, I've tried to do a structure here because this is complicated. We can't just do it by flash gun questions. We'll do your questions, listener questions at the end, but I want to do a structured arrangement. Let's try it. Okay, so the basics. How do national insurance and your state pension relate to each other?

7:40Okay, so the simplest analogy I can give you is I want to imagine that each year if you get enough national insurance, you get a token that you put in your state pension piggy bank. And the more you have in your state pension piggy bank, the bigger your state pension you get once you hit state pension age, which is age 66. The more national insurance you pay. No, the more national insurance years you have. Right, OK. And that's an important difference. Each year is one token. OK. Now, you get national insurance. The big one is from work, but you can also get it for childcare when you're looking after your child under the age of 12.

8:17You can get it from certain benefits and you can get it if you are a carer. So let's focus on work for a second. The current threshold to get a national insurance token, my language, not a real thing, but it's to help you think about it, is£6 ,396 a year. If you earn more than that, you've got your national insurance year. If you earn less than that, you don't. It is binary. It's not that you get half a year if you earn a half of it. You either get it or you don't get it. So each year that you have enough national insurance from whatever source, you get your token, it goes into the state pension piggy bank.

8:52you need 10 years to get any state pension so if you've less than 10 years and you're not going to get over 10 years you shouldn't be looking to buy this or to try and get it you know there's just no point the maximum state pension tends to come when you have roughly 35 years of contributions now i cannot stress how roughly how big an ish if i had my normal voice i'd be doing some hyperbole about this right now. 35 years-ish will give you the full state pension, but it absolutely depends. And this is all about the new state pension, I should add. I'll come on to more of that in a moment. So you think about it.

9:34Each year, you need to get your token. You need enough tokens to get a state pension. Over 10, you'll get something, and then there's a full amount that you get. If you get the full amount of state pension, that is currently set at£221.20 a year. OK, so you don't stop paying national insurance once you've got enough years, do you? No, I mean, and the best way I can explain that is think of national insurance as dual functioned. It's both a way to get tokens in order for you to get the state pension and some other things as well. But it's also a tax. I mean, let's just be absolutely blunt about it.

10:10It's just a tax. You're just paying it. You're paying it because you've earned enough and you have to keep paying it even when you've got your full national insurance contributions. So there is a duality there of what it does. What we're focused on today is not its function as a tax. We're focused on solely its function as giving you those tokens so that you have enough national insurance years to get as maximum state pension when you hit state pension age. State pension, of course, is a payout you get once you hit state pension age for the rest of your life. And just be clear again, they don't call them tokens.

10:40You're calling it tokens. What do they call it? Well, you can talk national insurance contributions, national insurance years. you can talk all of those things, but I don't think they quite work conceptually. And so I actually think the concept of you, you need a year's token to put in your piggy bank because you talk about national insurance credits, but you're earning those mid-year, but they don't necessarily give you the token. So it's totally my analogy, but I'm just trying to, you know, many people will understand how it works, but if you don't, tokens in a piggy bank. Why would people have years missing?

11:08Why would they be not getting tokens? Four big ones. Low income, you didn't earn enough. years abroad where you weren't in the UK, career breaks, or you were not claiming the credits you were entitled to. There are some that need to be claimed. We're going to come to those. So this is mainly that the deadline is about buying back years, but many people, and I'm going to, before you pay, you should check whether you're entitled to those years for free. Right. So you mentioned it's all about the deadline and it's urgent. So exactly what is the deadline related to? So now this is important to understand.

11:44This is all about the new state pension, which started in April 2016. That means it applies to any men who were born after the 5th of April 1951. So maximum age would be 73 currently. And any women who were born after the 5th of April 1953. So women, the maximum age is 71. When the new state pension was launched in 2016, there were transitional arrangements put in place that allowed you to buy back any missing years to 2006. They were due to end in April 2023. But because, and we won't mention any names, a certain person went everywhere telling everybody to check whether they were missing national insurance years at the time.

12:27It busted the system. There was over demand. Not enough people could do it in time. And yes, I was to blame. And they extended it until July 2023. So I then did another television programme and we did another podcast and I did it in my website again and we bust the system again. So they then extended it until the end of the current tax year. So the deadline is now the 5th of April 2025, this year. It is almost certain it will not be extended again. They put different provisions in place for overdemand, which I'll be talking to you about later. So this is a hard deadline. Now let's talk about what it means in practice.

13:03The transition arrangements say you can go back to 2006. The normal arrangements say you can go back six tax years. So currently you can buy back any missing years to 2006. And that happens until the 5th of April this year. On the 6th of April this year, you will only be able to buy back to 2019 six tax years. So the years between 2006 and 2019, this is your last opportunity if you haven't got them and you need them and you have to buy them to buy them. Otherwise, you lose that opportunity. 13 years of national insurance is disappearing. That is why this is so crucial. And you heard from that case study I gave earlier.

13:4713 years can be equal, if you have a typical life expectancy, to about 100 grand if you are missing them. Hence the importance and the urgency of this deadline. I'm going to have a sip of a drink. Okay. Excuse me, everyone. Yes, that's gone down nicely. Thank you. So how do you check whether you're missing the years? Is there an intelligible piece of paper that arrives through the post? No. It's online and it's actually really easy. So let me give you two steps. The first thing you're going to do is you're going on to gov.uk and you're going to check your national insurance record. That's what it's called.

14:24You can go on to gov.uk, you can do it, you can do the search there, you can put it into Google, just make sure you're going to gov.uk. What you'll then do is you'll get a list of your national insurance records. So I've got one printed out in front of me. This says 2015-2016, full year. 2014-2015, full year. 2013-2014, full year. 2012, 2013, year is not full. And then what you would do is you would click view details on the year that is not full. Now you may, do you remember I said at the beginning it's binary? Yeah. So why does it say full year? It doesn't matter. That means you've got it. Okay.

14:57But why say full? It's just a year. It's just you've got it or you haven't got it. I suppose this is just a little different between me having spent ages thinking about easy communication terms and them doing officialies. Yeah. Okay. But the point is you've either got a full year or you have a year that is not full. Now, a year that is not full does not mean it's empty. In some circumstances, I had someone the other day who was basically missing a week of work, a week's worth of work. So all they had to do to buy their year was pay 16 quid. They had to pay the national insurance for one week. Now, a full national insurance year for someone who's employed is about 800 quid, but they only paid 16.

15:33It's cheaper if you're selling an employee. We'll come on to all of that later. So the first thing you're going to do is you're going to go through that list and you're going to see if you have any years that are not full. and the crucial ones we're looking at are 2006 to 2019. Before 2006, so many people ask this, you can't do it. After 2019, you don't have to decide right now.

15:54We've got a caller, Amanda, on this. Amanda, thanks for coming on. Go on. Have you got a question, a contribution? Do you want to howl in pain? It's all... All of those. It's your call, Amanda. Okay, right. Well, mine is that I've been a stay-at-home parent since 2009. So my tokens were paid on my behalf up until my younger son turned 12 in October 2022. So since then, I've got a shortfall of a year and a half up to April 2024. And the total contributions come to£1 ,300 that it's asking me to make. and then when I look at my state pension record I'm on GovUK as you just suggested and it says that this is my forecast up until April 2024 as things stand I will get 220 pounds a week 220 220 my forecast if I contribute one more year before my retirement age of 2037 it will go up to£221 a week.

17:05So it's a whole extra pound if I pay another year. But then underneath it, it says you were contracted out. And by contracting out, because I reached state pension age after 2016, I might not get the full rate of the new state pension of£221. An amount will be taken off. Okay. I'm going to break this down a little bit. What I'm going to do, if you forgive me, I'm going to answer the first bits and ignore contracting out for now. And if you're happy to stay on, I'm going to come back to you on that bit because I think just in terms of my logical steps, I need to explain it to people. That's an added complexity.

17:46But I know I've had loads of questions on contracting out and I want to do it. So as you've rightly done, the first step is to check your mission of national insurance shares. The second step also on gov.uk is to go and check your state pension forecast. Now, the full state pension for most people is£221.20 a year. It will tell you if that is the most that you can get. You know, that's the maximum. For some people in certain circumstances who have additional state pension, it can actually be higher. For some people who are contracted out, it can be lower. if you're on track to get the full state pension the fact you've got missing years is irrelevant as long as you're going to work enough in the future unless in your head you're planning to move abroad or take years out of work you don't need to buy back the years this isn't the case of filling your missing years now i'll give a slight caveat to that personally and this is an attitude to risk if i was very close with some very cheap partial years that were only going to cost me 20 quid i'd probably do it even if i was likely to get my full state pension just in case something changed in future to give me the freedom that I wouldn't need extra years.

18:48But I wouldn't be paying£800 for a year if it was unlikely to need the state pension forecast. Now, what I do need to say to you, just if you forgive me, is you need to have a conversation with this with the future pension service. And I'm going to come up with it because you should get one-on-one help in a complex situation. And I don't have your state pension record. I'm going to give you my intuitive answer based on what you've told me as an indication for how to think about it, but I would still strongly suggest you're going at one-on-one. I think you're virtually there. Are you planning to do one more year's more work before you hit retirement age?

19:24Is that something that's likely to happen? You'll earn over£6 ,400 in a year? I was sort of hoping not to, but if needs must, then I can't do that. Well, if you're hoping not to and you need one more year to get, then you might want to consider it but what's actually happening is you're only sort of a you're not a full year short by the sound of it you're only a partial year short yes i think that's the six months after my because my um my contribution stopped when my son turned 12 in october yeah and it was that it was that year up until the following april i think i'm missing really so you're oh yes so it's whether you could pay that partial year more cheaply is worth checking do you know right yeah so if you could And you've just got to do the math on this.

20:10The standard equation is for those who have to pay£800 for a full year, you get£330 a year extra pension if it makes the maximum difference, if you were more than a full year short. So therefore, the break-even point is two and a half years of state pension, which the vast majority of people will get. Because you're less than a full year short, your break-even point is going to be longer. So what you need to do is a woman who hits age 66 has life expectancy, I have to double check this, I think of around 22 years on average. So you need to do that maths and work out where your break even point is.

20:47I mean, my honest view for you in a good way is, if you know what I mean, it's just it's neither hidden or tither. You're nearly at the full state pension. I presume you probably have other income and other pensions, in which case you won't be getting pension credit. I mean, which is something everyone, those on low incomes who have no other form of pension won't be getting pension credit. So would be getting pension credit. So this might defeat that anyway. So in your case, I genuinely think it's a bit of a because you're so close to the full state pension and you may have to pay a lot. But if you can get a partial year cheaply to get you up there, it might be worth considering.

21:23But you're an edge case, is my honest view. Some people can get years for free. Yes. on this without him to pay for them. What's that all about? National insurance is normally automatically added, but there are some that need to be claimed, and I'm going to run you through the three big ones. Now, you just heard it there from Amanda. If you are looking after a child up to the age of 12 and not working, you get national insurance credits for that. However, the thing that triggers you getting national insurance credits is claiming child benefit. so the big mistake and it's hundreds of thousands of people in this position is the working partner in the relationship is the one who claims child benefit not the non-working partner and therefore the working partner is getting the child care benefit but they're working so getting national insurance credits from working anyway so you've got it on the wrong side in which case you can apply and you can do this retrospectively to transfer it to the non-working partner do you know what Adrian I got an email from Jackie.

22:29I'm going to pass you my computer. If you wouldn't mind reading that out for me, because it'll save my voice so I can have a cough. Okay. It's in the purple there. Okay. Jackie. We felt salty that... I like that. We felt salty that due to my earnings, we received no child benefit when the children were little and my husband was at home looking after them. It'd be over£6 ,000 to top up my husband's NI for those missing employment years. We followed your suggestion on applying to transfer the NI from me to him and asked our neighbour to write a letter that we'd been living together with our children for all those years.

23:03A very welcome letter arrived today confirming those years now count towards his NI and he now has a full state pension entitlement, so very grateful. A donation has been made to your Money and Mental Health Policy Institute as a small thank you. Well, Jackie, he's so poorly, but you've got a one smile out of him for that. You have indeed. And look, there are many people in that position. So just check who was the one claiming the child benefit. Was it the wrong one? I mean, just to put it, how many years was it? I think it was eight years. Again, you're talking there,£2 ,400 a year increased state pension.

23:43You know, live 20 years, that's 40 grands worth. So that one's important. You can back claim it. that forms you fill in on gov.uk. Just as a warning, because you can't really backdo this one, there are many people out there where their partner is a higher earner and therefore they know they won't get child benefit and don't claim it. That's a mistake because you don't get the childcare at national insurance credits. You can claim it at zero rate. Claim it but ask to get nothing and that will trigger your national insurance credits. But you can't backclaim that one, but if you're in that position right now, always claim child benefit if you're not working.

24:19So we've talked about child benefit. The next one is actually what I like to call the grandparent national insurance credit. But it isn't really called that. It's called the specified adult child care credit. So if you've been looking after a family member is looking after a child while the parents are working, the parents can apply under the specified adult child care credit to transfer their national insurance credits to the close family member, generally a grandparent looking after the child as long as the grandparent is under the state pension age. Now, you can do that retrospectively even if the grandparent is now over state pension age as long as they were under state pension age.

24:59In some cases, you can go back to 2011. And so for many grandparents who were doing childcare, including virtual childcare in the pandemic, there could be national insurance years available for free. Again, I've got a case study that someone sent me that on the back you can read out. And this is from Marilyn who says, Thanks to your advice, I claimed for grandparent NI credits for the past six years. I gave up work in 2017 after kidney tumour surgery and devoted my time to looking after my baby granddaughters to help my daughter, who's a nurse, return to work. When I heard on your show about the grandparent credits, I applied so I could make up the missing years and get a full state pension later this year.

Read the full transcript

25:37It was quick and easy. My application was approved within three weeks. Again, tens of thousands of pounds. that we're talking about in that. And again, it's just a form that you fill out on gov.uk. The final three years one is carer's credit. If you were doing unpaid care over 20 hours a week for a person on qualifying benefits like PIP or DLA, then you will be entitled to carer's credit. Back claiming that is more difficult. You can only go back to the beginning of the previous tax year, but it's worth doing. Now, I should say on claiming back the free NASH insurance credits, there is no 5th of April deadline.

26:15But you want to do it as quickly as possible because if you're not going to be eligible for it, you may want to buy back those missing years. All the forms on gov.uk. Okay. So this business from the missing years from 2006 to 2018. Why are we asking about those dates? Well, because on the 5th of April, you can only buy them until the 5th of April. Right. You can buy from 2019 onwards. You can still buy from 2019 onwards on the 6th of April. You just can't buy the years 2006 to 2018. That's the hard deadline. That's the transitional arrangements that end at that point. So how do you decide whether you want to do it or not?

26:52OK, so the first thing I'd say is if you've got a partial year, it can be super cheap. Well, that would obviously help you. If you're at or soon to be at your state pension age, so let's say 62, 63, 64, 65, it's pretty easy then to see if it's likely to win. If you forecast under the full state pension,£221.20 a week, buying extra years is likely to be a no-brainer. For some people, you're already getting the state pension and you may have missing years, in which case, you know, you start getting more instantly as soon as they've gone through the bureaucracy to credit it to you. Those age 40, 45 to 60-ish, it's less definite as you may naturally fill the gaps.

27:31But it's better for those who are older within that age group who don't have a post-2019 gap. If you've got gaps after 2019 you could fill, well, then you haven't got the urgency to decide because you could use those instead. The more missed years you have, the better it is likely to be to be filling some of them. And if you have any cheap partial years, the better it's likely to be. For those under 40, I mean, I had somebody ask this to me. It's actually for his children. He found out he had two sons and they were both missing years, which had cost him about 60 quid to pay. And they were forecast to get the full state pension.

28:06but he said, you know what, for 60 quid, I'm just going to buy it anyway in case they decide to move abroad or do anything. They've got a couple of missing years. If you're young, I probably wouldn't bother, but I'd check to see if I could get any really, really cheap years because 50 quid paid that may be futile because you would have got the full stake pension anyway is probably worth it for the potential of£330 a year. Let me just go through the returns, right, on buying years. Now, again, I'm going to talk about the price of buying a full year, but some people may only be partial year short, so it'd be cheaper.

28:39Then a full Class 3 national insurance contribution for the missing years is usually around£800. It varies slightly per year, but not too much. If you're self-employed and can get Class 2, and that's slightly complicated, so I'll just leave it at that, it's around£180. It's a lot cheaper. So think of that,£180 or£800. So let's do the maths for someone who's employed paying a full year at around£800. You get£330 a year for each additional national insurance token that you get in up to the full amount. So that would mean you paid£800, you get£330 a year, you're breaking even after two and a half years.

29:19If you were to live for each year as a man with a typical life expectancy of 19 years after the state pension age, then you're going to be getting around£5 ,400 per each extra year you buy. As a woman who will typically have life expectancy around 22, 23 years, you're going to be getting around£6 ,400 if you live to typical life expectancy. So now clearly not everybody lives to typical life expectancy. That's really important to be looking at. Clearly you have to look at your other finances, is a big thing that people don't consider. Those who are on very low incomes and who have no other form of income, no other state pension, no savings, anything like that, are eligible for pension credit that tops you up to the full state pension anyway.

30:08So those on low income shouldn't be doing this because you don't need the top that the state would do it. I mean, some people would say morally you should, so the state doesn't have to do it, but I'm talking about from a purely personal financial perspective. This is primarily for people who have a little bit more money, who are likely to not be eligible for pension credit and who can top up in those circumstances. The final thing is getting this extra income, if you have other income, could push you up a tax threshold. It could make you start paying tax at 20 % because state pension income is taxable.

30:38Or it could push you up to the 40 % tax bracket if you have other income. That makes the breakthrough period three and a half years, means you'll be getting net, you know,£4 ,000. not fine. It's still, even if it does mean you start paying tax, it's still well worth doing. And the final point on this, on finances, currently, the state pension has a triple lock. That means it rises each year with the highest of 2.5 % average earnings or inflation. So actually, if that were to be kept and there is no guarantee it will be kept, I suspect it might go to a double lock at some point, so it just rises with inflation.

31:21This is actually inflation-proofed returns. All the numbers I'm talking about are inflation-proofed. They will go up. They will be bigger in actual fact as prices rise. That's why for those that this is right for, this is ridiculously lucrative. Of course, there is a risk you die at age 67, but statistically, I would play the odds that most people are going to live around 20 years on the state pension. So the next thing is, what do you do if buying years looks right for you? You know, you've gone through, you've said, OK, everything Martin said, I've looked, I've done all the checks, this looks right for me.

31:59You can use the gov.uk state pension forecast tool, which will show your pension forecast, your national insurance record, your payable gaps and will let you pay. unless you're at state pension age or nearly four months from it, or you missed years from self-employment or you worked abroad, or the system says you're in complex cases, in which case you need to do a phone call. The phone call is one-on-one advice, and anyone who's uncertain, just go and get the one-on-one advice. If you are at or near state pension age, you need to call the pension service. If you're before state pension age, you need to call the future pension centre.

32:39Please, nobody call them up if you're trying to buy years before 2006. You can't do it. These phone lines are jammed anyway. Please don't get in the queue. If you haven't bought it online, to pay, after you've got your advice telling you whether it's good or bad to do it, you will then need to get an 18-digit reference from HMRC, which you can do by calling or a web chat. Do it via the web chat. Don't do it via calling. Final caveat on these things, before I tell you an extra, sorry, but this is really... These calls, while they'll give you amazing one-on-one help, I get great feedback, they won't talk to you about free years, so make sure you check whether you're entitled 20 years for free yourself.

33:19They won't talk to you about the tax impact, although again, that still doesn't neutralise you doing it, it just reduces the benefit to an extent. They won't tell you if it may reduce your pension credit entitlement, which is important for people on low incomes. Now, I have crashed this system multiple times. I crashed it last week from my TV show. I've crashed it years ago. It's still struggling. DWP, the Department for Work of Pensions, have launched a form this year for people who can't get through. Let me be plain, most of you won't get through if you can't do it online. Now, the first thing to say is anyone who's spoken and got one-on-one advice, you're in the system, even after the 5th of April.

33:58If they say they're going to call you back, you can still do it after the 5th of April if you're in the system. The same is true for the form, which is too long for me to give you on the radio show. I will put it on my social media again. I will link you to the form. It's basically a callback request form. If you do that callback request form, requesting a callback from DWP, or if you can't make the payment to HMRC, requesting a callback from HMRC, if you do it via the 5th of April, you have got under the deadline, even if they don't call you back until May or June. Right? So the deadline is about getting in touch with them.

34:31So all of that though means this is urgent. I mean, some people, you need to listen back on the podcast. I've done step by step. There's also other information you can work out where that is put out there. Go through the step by step. At the very least, if it looks likely you need to buy yours, do the contact form that you'll be able to find online or I will put it on my social media later on, which will give you the option that if they're too clogged to take your call, which they almost certainly will be and you can't do it online, that you will still be eligible to do this after the 5th of April deadline for the missing years between 2006 and 2018.

35:06So a question from Karen on Facebook. My Gateway account says I have missing years, which I can back pay that comes to a total of just over£5 ,000. But my forecast says I will get the maximum payment of£221.20 a week. So let me go again. I get this quite a lot. you have missing years but it looks like you don't need those missing years. Now again I'm only giving cursory from what you've told me. If you don't need the missing years don't buy the missing years. The exception would be if you have a foreseeability of a career break that you won't be working in future and it's predicting within that forecast it's assuming you're going to keep working in future or you would work abroad.

35:55It is a two-pronged test. Am I missing years? Am I short of my full state pension forecast? So, she goes on to say, am I reading this correctly, that making up the shortfall would not change my pension payments at all, so not worth doing? Answer, yes. Question from Janet. I'm already drawing on my state pension. I'll be 71 in May, which is reduced due to incomplete years. I have contacted the DWP, but I've been told there is an eight-week backlog and they will call me at some point. Will I miss out on the opportunity to buy back? And will they tell me which years are short and by how much contribution I will need to pay?

36:36Take a deep breath. You're fine. You're in their system. You have got under the deadline. They will call you back. They may call you back after the 5th of April. If they call you back after the 5th of April, you will still be able to buy yours between 2006 to 2018 because the reason you're talking to them after the 5th of April is their fault, not your fault. I mentioned when I'd done this prior deadlines, I'd extended the deadline. What they've decided to do this time, which is a sensible solution, is to effectively say, if you're getting under the deadline, we're going to give ourselves time to deal with it after the deadline.

37:13And therefore, it will work. We should bring Amanda back on her contracting out. Have we still got her? Yes. Hi, hi. Contracting out is before 2012, you or up to 2016, your company decided to put some of the national insurance contributions that were allowed to do this into a private pension. And therefore you paid less national insurance and that can result in a lower state pension. And that was the idea. In the hope that your private pension you were using would be more lucrative than your current state pension. Now, if you have a fully contracted out year, and that's what it's showing you, you can't buy that back because you paid all the national insurance.

37:51If you only had a partially contracted out year, i.e. you only contracted out for part of the year, you may be able to buy it. This is one of those complicated situations you should only do if you're getting the one-on-one phone help from the future pension centre. The big message I would give to people who are contracted out about is many people have lost touch with the pension that the money was going into, and it may well be quite lucrative. You may be able to track it through your older employer or if you did it privately, then there's the pension tracking service on gov.uk and it is very important to do so because you could actually have a substantial amount of money in that missing pension that you've forgotten about because you contracted out.

38:27Do you remember your contracted out situation, Amanda? Well, yes. I remember it was 1990. My employer had a pension advisor come in who said, contract out, you must contract out, do it. So I did and stayed contracted out until probably until I finished work, which is in 2009 to go on maternity leave. So I have no idea how much my state pension is reduced by. When I look at gov.uk and it says you have contributions from your national insurance of 52 weeks during my years that I was contracted out. but I don't know how much I will lose of the state pension. It warns me that I may lose some but doesn't tell me how much.

39:20Well, the first thing to say is you can't buy those years anyway. No. And you want to go and do this future pension centre call to get the information on that and talk to somebody one-on-one. Do you know where that pension is though, the private pension? That's next job on my list. because I had seven or eight jobs scattered about. And so I've got loads. I think you may be gobsmacked of how much is in it. Oh, good. I'm hoping, look, if it was invested well, you could well be due to get more than that than it would have been in the state pension. You could also, you know, it's an investment. It could also be worth.

39:53But I think many people who are contracted out are actually, it's fascinating. You're getting in touch with me. You're contracted out. Contracted out meant some of the money I would have paid in national insurance so I don't get as big a state pension is going into a private pension. Go find the private pension. yes that is that's that's the job because i've got lots of bits and bobs scattered about so that i need to sort of track down i've moved house change name you know all of the above so i've got to try and um get that in you still look exactly the same to me on the radio oh thank you okay amanda yes go on you got you had a quick follow-up i was i was going to say on the Gov website, it says I may not get the full amount, but is there any way of finding out how much less?

40:40Call the Future Pension Centre. Did that. And what did they say? The very lovely lady had a nice chat and she basically told me to call DWP. So that's next job on my list. Good luck. Yeah. It sounds like we're going to speak to you again, Amanda, but thanks very much. Thank you very much indeed for your time. All the best. Thanks for joining us. A question from Gillian Magson. Husband is£3 a week less than full pension. To pay the couple of thousand they want to give him full years isn't worth it. No, no, no. How long is a piece of string? There's no way you should be paying£2 ,000. If you're a few quid short, you're less than one full year short of your state pension.

41:23So you don't need to buy back all your missing years. is there one partial year you could buy back? Do the maths. £3 a week,£150 a year. You know, how much are you willing to spend on it? If it costs you£800, what's the break-even point? Because it's£150, you know, it's about six years, it's still probably worth it at£800. There's no way you're buying£2 ,000 because that's more than one year. You almost certainly don't need more than one year. So I'm not quite sure where that equation has come from. Certainly if it would cost you£2 ,000, and I can't quite figure out why, I'm missing something, then it's not worth it.

41:59But you should be just, you don't have to buy all the missing years. You could just buy a missing year or preferably a partial missing year. A question from Jill. I already get a full state pension. I'm going on 70 this year. Have I anything to gain by paying for any missing contributions? No, you shook your head. You answered that one, didn't you? Yes, I did. Mark, to get full pension, my missing years will cost me nearly£7 ,000. I would be 72 before I was on the winning side. Well, I mean,£7 ,000 is a lot so you've probably got 12 years of missing years. I don't know why you would be 72. The most expensive years are£800.

42:36They gain you£330 a year. There might be a little bit of partial year that would change it. I'm surprised it would be 72 if you're getting your state pension at 66. I think it'd be more like 69. Having said that, even if I take it on face value and we assume there's something I'm missing and this is incredibly common, Now, it's once said there are only two people who understand the state pension in detail. One of them has just decided he doesn't really understand it. And the other one, she's died. So, I mean, it's an incredibly complex circumstance. But£7 ,000 to break even by the age of 72. So on your definition, six years, although I don't know why it would be that rather than three.

43:11Well, let's say you live to 78. Well, and it's inflation proof. You'd have made back double your money. If you live to 84, a little bit more than typical life expectancy, you'd have got, you know, you'd have got back treble your money. So even at 72, on your maths, it's still likely worth doing. But you don't have to do the whole 7 ,000 if you can't afford it. You could do less. You could do what you could afford to bring you up. It's a simple maths game. What am I going to gain? How much is it going to cost me? Is it worth it? Remembering typical life expectancies. 19 years after, for somebody who's aged 66 as a man, 19 years, as a woman, 23 years, you'll know, are you in good health?

43:47Are you in bad health? Do you have longevity in your family? all of those things you need to factor in as a personal decision yourself. Come on, let's get it over with Martin.

43:59My weekly humiliation. So the current scoring mastermind is Adrian has got seven right and 12 wrong. He had a good win, but it's not been going well the last few weeks. So let's do this. I wanted to tell you all that as Adrian and I left the studio together after the show last week, he asked me for a little bit of help, specifically an issue he was having. with ATMs about some money he'd come into and put into the bank. I was intrigued, so as he asked, I went with him to the cash machine and he asked if I could help him check his balance. So I pushed him over. That's all I had. I've been ill, OK?

44:34I've been ill. Now you're ill. Now I'm ill. The question, Adrian, on that windfall of money you came into, the BBC has given you a£5 ,000 bonus for having the sexiest voice on radio. Clearly, listeners, this is fiction. The£5 ,000 bonus for having the sexiest voice on radio. You deposit the money in a new joint bank account with your wife. When that savings earns interest, how is the interest demarked for tax purposes? So it's you earned the money, it's from your income, you have put it into an account that is joint with your wife. Is it A, it's all deemed to count as your interest as it was from your earnings?

45:19B, the interest is allocated 50-50? C, as Mrs Charles pays tax at a higher marginal rate than you, it's allocated to her. It's allocated to the highest taxpayer in a joint account.

45:37Well, I... So A, your earnings you pay. B, 50-50. D, C, the higher rate taxpayer pays it. This is something you put in your self-assessment, is it? I'm not here to answer your questions. And that clarification would be useful. Well, it depends whether you do self-assessment or not. It's how the interest is allocated.

46:00I'm going to go 50-50. So 50-50? Yes. Final answer. I want to change it now because your expression you can't resist the corners of your mouth going up when you realise I've got it wrong but I'll stick with I'm an idealist, I'm going with what I think is fair Well it's interesting, the rules for how interest is demarked in a savings account is also the same for how it is protected for savings safety so worth understanding if you have a joint account the rule there is you're allowed up to£85 ,000 per person per financial institution and the rule on both is apart from extreme exemptions, which I can't actually think of any off the top of my head, it is allocated 50-50.

46:44Play the hallelujah. Hallelujah. Feels good. Yeah, it's very simple and everybody needs to remember that. So clearly what that would mean is were, and I'm not going to get into this position, Mrs Charles to be a higher marginal taxpayer than you, then you wouldn't really want to put that much money in a joint account. You would want more money in your account because you pay less tax on it and less money in hers, provided you have a trusting, non-financially abusive relationship. So it's worth remembering, joint accounts, for example, you have one working partner and one non-working partner, as we talked about earlier, you've got the money in a joint account, you're not effectively using the non-working partner's allowance enough if you're going to be taxed on savings interest.

47:27I have to tell you, having just done a radio programme and with my voice scratchy and coffee, I want a radio fader in my real life. So a radio fader is the little thing where you can push your volume up and down and turn it off. And during the programme with Adrian, I'd give him a signal when I was about to cough or choke or do whatever and he would just turn my fader down so you couldn't hear me. And I'm just thinking, I want one of those in real life so I can just fade down the cough whenever I'm about to cough and it will disappear. Fine for thinking. Anyway, with me this week for his first time filling in for podcast producer Simon is podcast producer Richard.

48:01Welcome on board, Richard. Very good to be with you, Martin. So, OK, you're going to ask me. We've had loads of questions during the show and we had loads of others from beforehand. I hope I've answered many of them in what I've already talked about. But let's whiz through a few more and see what we can get through. So Mick has been in touch. He says, it's fine paying in, but who's to say the next government won't do something different? Who's to say they won't change the rules or the retirement age? That is an incredibly important point and one I like to warn about, so I'm very glad you've asked the question.

48:30I think there are two main known risks. The first one is that they increase the state pension age. It has been done before the age at which you get your state pension. Now, in the event they increase the state pension age, clearly we're talking about a two and a half year break-even point of getting the state pension. So if it's two years later that you get your state pension, you would be two years older when you hit break-even point. I would say that while that is a risk and it is probably the most substantial risk, it is still unlikely to mean this isn't worth doing for people it is currently worth doing now.

49:08If it's worth doing now for the vast majority of people, it would still be worth doing if that change came into effect. So I wouldn't worry about that too much. The other risk that people have spoken to me about is means testing of the state pension. Now it's worth me saying there is no current mainstream UK political party that has a policy of means testing the state pension. However, it has been put in some policy papers by think tanks and there has been some small discussion of it. So it's unsurprising people have raised it with me. My view is it is a risk that you have to factor in. Now, certainly the nearer you are to getting the state pension the less of a big deal that risk is because it's certainly something that's going to take a lot of years in the unlikely event it does happen but possible event that it does happen take a lot of years to hit and you've only got a two and a half year break even point of getting the state pension before you're better off on this anyway so for the vast majority of people i ignore it ignore it but the longer away you are the younger you are you know i can look at read what the situation is now But when we're in some insane future of AI flying sheep, I don't know what the state pension system will be.

50:24So there is more uncertainty. So for those people, if you ask me, and I can't give you any guarantees, but if you ask me, if you do all the calculations on this and it looks like there will be a huge material benefit to you from buying your national insurance years, then I would just buy them. There are risks in everything. There always are. If, however, it's only a marginal call for you, then the risk of substantial change to the system in future, even though it is small, may just be the thing that tips you off not doing this and not shelling out too much money. And the final risk I would risk, and using the Donald Rumfelt quote, is there's the unknown unknowns.

51:04Those are both known unknowns, things that we know are potential, even though means testing state pension is unlikely. There are unknown unknowns, too, when we're talking about something drifting in decades in the future, which getting the state pension is. So you're quite right to raise it as a question and people need to factor that in their decision. I wouldn't certainly, if I were relatively near state pension agent, this looks like it's going to be making me tens of thousands of pounds. I would do it anyway. But that doesn't mean it's risk free. Great. And we've had this question from Aaron as well.

51:37He wants to know what your advice is for women who stayed at home to look after their kids, which meant that they didn't have a traditional job and they didn't pay national insurance. Well, as I've already talked about in the show, you may well be entitled to free national insurance for childcare. If you're looking after the children are not working and the children are under the age of 12, you should have been getting that national insurance. If you work, if you weren't, it's either because you didn't claim child benefit because your partner was a higher earner, very difficult to backdate that, or it's because the working partner claimed the child benefit and you didn't get the national insurance credits and those you are able to retrospectively transfer of our reform on gov.uk.

52:13Okay. Luby has a question. Luby says, what's the point when those who don't have a full pension can get pension credit with their rent and their dental treatment paid? So, look, many listeners will know I've campaigned very strongly about pension credit and winter fuel payments. I've been there are a million people eligible for pension credit who aren't claiming it. That's one of the problems. Pension credit is a top up to the state pension for people on very low incomes to make sure effectively you're going to get as a bare minimum, roughly from the state what the full-stake pension is. But that only applies to those who don't have other forms of private pensions or savings, all of which can exclude you from pension credit eligibility.

52:54So, as I explained earlier in the show, it is very important to look at your financial situation. If you will have total income, including any income from savings or investments or private pensions under around£220 as an individual, around£340,£350 as a pensioner couple, then buying extra years may be futile as you would have got the money through the pension credit anyway. And the pension credit is also a gateway benefit that gives you access to, you know, potential council tax discounts and housing benefit and the winter fuel payment and a free TV licence if you're aged over 75. So all of those things.

53:37And you wouldn't want to not have that because the pension credit is very valuable. So in those circumstances, it's probably not worth topping up if you think you will be in those circumstances. But many people don't claim pension credit and we don't know that the pension credit system will still work the same way in 5, 10, 15, 20 years time. We don't know the state pension system in its totality will either. So absolutely, this top-up, finding three years is worth it for most people, but this top-up is only worth it for those who will generally have other incomes as well, which is sort of suitable in a way because they will be the type of people who have the money to be able to buy back the missing years.

54:14That's absolutely something you need to factor in. I hope I made that point earlier, but we've done it now just to reiterate it if I didn't. So we've had this from Meryl on Facebook who says, I've got one year left that I could purchase, but I've worked out it would take me 10 years to see any benefit. Is it worth it? So the reason that will probably work is, again, and we had many similar questions during the main show, you are likely only a partial, you're not a full year away from full state pension contribution. So getting a full year's contribution is only likely to give you less than a full year's top-up because you're already close to the maximum amount anyway, in which case it's 10 years.

54:54You tell me. based on standard life expectancy, the answer is yes, to get this a buy back in 10 years. It's nowhere near as good as for some other people who will get it back in two and a half years. Your typical life expectancy would be 20 years. And so you'd get double your money back inflation proofed. But it's a personal decision. You're one of those marginal cases I've been talking about. I can't make the decision for you. Just check you've got the maths right, though. Check that is actually the situation, because that would mean you're on one of those edge cases, which tends to be the questions I get.

55:25The majority of questions about edge cases, not where it's simple. You're on one of those edge cases where it's less than a full year. Just double check that what you're saying is right. And if it is, I can't make the decision for you. Yes, statistically, it probably should be worth it for you. But we've talked about many ifs and buts all the way through. Janice on Twitter has this for us. She says, I have 35 years, but my forecast says I'm short of the maximum amount. I'll get£197. But I can buy years to cover the shortfall. and the website has a bundled years offer of one or two or four years of cheapest and oldest.

55:58But I can see that they aren't and I'll still have a gap despite then having 39 years. As I mentioned earlier, many people, especially those contracted out, 35 years is only an ish. And I always wrestle with whether I should even say 35 years. I say 35 years to give you an indication of how many years you should be looking at, but then I put the big ish in because it just is not as simple as 35 years. What I suggest you do in your case is you've done it online by the sound of it. I can't look at your personal case. You're not giving me the data or detail. This is why there is the one-on-one future pension centre that you can call up to try and talk them through what years you should buy and how it would work best.

56:40I think in your case, as you're short of years and you have missing years, it's absolutely worth having that one-on-one assessment for you. I'm not going to answer the question because I believe that is the right method for you if in a nice way. Janet says I know how much I've got to pay I can't get anyone to tell me how to pay it they're either not answering the phone or they're referring me elsewhere. So I presume in that case you're talking about the HMRC system where you're trying to get the 18 digit code first big tip use the web chat you're far more likely to get through on the HMRC web chat than you are the HMRC phone line, especially as we're running up to the end of the tax year, many people are calling and this is going on.

57:23In the event that you can't get through to them on that, then the link that I am putting out, which is one where you can basically request a callback from DWP, at least that gets you under the line so that you can request the HMRC callback through it and even if they only call you back after the 5th of April, you'll still beat the deadline. But I would strongly suggest you try HMRC's web chat first if that's how you're looking to pay. Lisa says, I worked abroad on a cruise ship between 2000 and 2002. I'm presuming it's just too late to pay back those missing contributions. Is that right? Correct.

58:07Anything before 2006, you can't do. Sorry.

58:14And I think that's a good place to stop. You will forgive me, I hope. I'm not doing any other pod extras than those questions this week, both because it's been a very meaty subject and because my voice is on its last legs. Can your voice be on its last legs? If it can be, mine is. Thank you so much for listening. Please do spread the word about this. This is so important. This is an absolute deadline. It affects millions of people and some people may be missing out on tens of thousands of pounds if they don't do it. So please spread word about this podcast. And also, why not suggest that they subscribe to the podcast?

58:50We tend to put out a new podcast every Thursday. And so that way your pockets will be pleased with you. And if you've not enjoyed the podcast...

59:02Martin Lewis is the founder of monysavinexpert.com, but other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast team by emailing martinlewispodcast at bbc.co.uk. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you're listening on demand, it's worth double-checking as the details can date.

59:31BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

From the publisher

Martin’s poorly, but he’s battled through the coughs and splutters because he’s adamant that YOU need to hear how you could boost your state pension by TENS of THOUSANDS of pounds.

If you’re aged between 40 and 73 – it’s a must listen.

It’s all about missing National Insurance years.

Martin brings you a step-by-step guide and a full Q&A. It’s everything you need to know.

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