Question Time: How to escape a joint account? When not to claim child benefit? Who is Martin’s successor?

0:02You're looking at the top three easy access savings accounts. So you should be earning over 4 % in them. The lesson that we all learn from that is make sure you're clear with the provider that you've stopped using the service at the time. It's not that difficult, it's easy access. The good news is you will still benefit from child benefit. Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is our Question Time episode, where you get to ask me your questions on absolutely anything and everything, open brackets within reason, close brackets.

0:34This week, you asked me, how do I escape a joint account? If I cancel a direct debit, do I have to tell the firm? When isn't it worth claiming child benefit? Where do I put the money from my house sale? And Martin, who's going to take over when you retire? Play the theme tune. I got bills. I got to pay. So I'm going to work for the world every day. I got a mouth. I got a fee. I've got to be So I'm going to make sure everybody's Hello everybody, welcome to the Question Time podcast. Now normally at this point, I do a big build-up for our podcast producer and presenter, which I'm now calling our prod-center, Mr Matt Burnham.

1:22I call him a squire. I do a big build-up. But you're not having that this week, Matt. Okay, that's sad. Because you did a very, very silly boo-boo last week. Oh, I think I know what you're going to say Yeah, and I would like you to have the bravery that you're going to put the boo-boo in at this point I want you to edit the clip in So I need to tell everybody what Matt did last week So Matt edits the podcast and he was editing the main podcast too and as those of you who listen regularly will know there's a Money Mastermind in the main podcast and the Money Mastermind in the main podcast was about Section 75 and the trick in the question it was asking Adrian that you'd paid£10 on a credit card and the item cost£100 does Section 75 count?

1:58And the normal rule would be if you put any on a credit card, then Section 75 is applicable for the entire amount. The credit card company is jointly liable for the entire amount. But the trick in the question was the item cost£100. And Section 75 only applies if items cost more than£100. So the minimum is£100 and a penny. And that was the denouement to the mastermind. That was the big answer. And Adrian got it wrong. And that was the whole setup. Now, Matt, when he was choosing the clips to go at the start of the pod, the very first clip he did in the sort of music bed thing that we have at the start was me going, section 75 only applies if you've got£100 and a penny.

2:41Section 75 only applies for things that cost£100 and a penny or more. So the very first clip was literally the answer to the mastermind that gave everything away, Mr Burnham. In my defence, it was, because what I do is go through and I find the best little bits and the bits that I think are going to get people to really want to listen to the podcast and tease what we're doing. And I was like, well, that's a great clip. And then I think I sent it to you, didn't I? You sent it to me and I listened through and I normally come back with a few little, well, could you tweet that or do that here and there?

3:08And I was like, I got, I called you after 30 seconds and I was like, okay, the whole of the start doesn't work because you've given the answer to the maths, mind out. So that your punishment is you don't get your big build up today. Oh, okay. That's fair enough. Are you well otherwise, mate? Yeah, I'm well. Let me tell you about my stress dream I had the other day. I know people don't like talking about dreams, but I dreamt that I was walking through, I think it was like a shopping centre. Someone came up to me and was like, I recognise your voice. Where have I heard your voice before? And I panicked.

3:35And I woke up then, I think, or whatever. But you should have bathed in your reflected glory. Anyway, shall we get on with some actual questions? Yeah, let's do it. I've got an email from Greg here. He sent it to martinlewispodcast.bbc.co.uk. He says, hello, Martin, Matt. No, Martin, no, Matt. I think he had a bit of a panic of who to address it to. Fine, your question's being read out. You're good. Don't worry, Greg. He says, I have a question on behalf of a friend of my wife's. She, the friend, split from her longtime partner recently. They had separate bank accounts, but a joint account for bills, etc., which had an overdraft facility.

4:14The account was at zero, but hadn't been closed and was still registered to the house that they shared where she still lives. Recently, she's noticed that the account has gone overdrawn with her ex-spending money on his debit card. She repaid this, but before she could close the account or get herself removed, he spent more money to the extent that she doesn't have enough money to clear it. What can she do about this as the overdraft is obviously costing her per day? Can she get the bank to stop any future transactions from his card? She's panicking over this and initially the bank said there was nothing they could do as he has the right to use the account.

4:46However, it's quite clear he isn't going to contribute any money towards clearing the overdraft. This is not the first time I've heard of this scenario and it is a very difficult scenario and it's something that the economic abuse charity looks into. Now, I'm not saying in this case, you know, because let's be plain, in some cases economic abuse is a form of domestic abuse. That's not what we're saying in this case at all. But this has really serious repercussions on people, especially if they can't talk to their ex-partner. Now, the actual rule is it depends on the bank account, I'm afraid to say.

5:20Some banks will allow one person to close a joint account, but then typically that's where it is a want to sign joint account, while others require you both to complete a form and submit it. So the simplest thing is if there is still an amicable relationship or at least a cordial relationship between your friend and her ex-partner, that they should have the conversation and they should agree some formula and agree to close the account together. I'm suspecting from the way that you've written this, that is not going to happen. Now, you can usually remove yourself from a joint account without permission from the other party, but that's only if the account is in credit.

5:59So that's not going to work here, which makes me think probably the strongest thing that she could ask to do at this point, I mean, you're not going to like this. And I find it uncomfortable that I haven't got a better solution is that she could ask for the account to be frozen. Now, that wouldn't deal with the existing debt, but it should stop more transactions. I think what she should do is she should call the bank again, tell them that she's feeling vulnerable in this situation because she's disempowered from her finances and doesn't know what to do, and would like to know if they have someone she can talk to about her options to try and extricate herself from this situation, which is not a good one and what her rights are.

6:38If she feels she isn't being dealt with adequately and she's notified the bank, then I'd do it as a formal complaint. I don't like what I'm saying. I just need to be honest. I don't like that I'm having to come up with this type of solution because it's not a solution. She needs to make a formal complaint and then take them to the ombudsman that they have not followed the consumer duty, that debt is being run up in her name, that she's ask them not to allow it to be run up and it's continued to be run up after she has notified them and I would put it as a consumer duty I wish I had a stronger answer I think I'm sorry for doing it as a reflective lesson because that really is no help to your friend whatsoever but the reflective lesson is only have joint accounts with someone you absolutely trust and is there for the long term and if it's not going to happen then get yourself out of it before that you're splitting up And just as an afterthought, you are hearing me right.

7:35Subtly, if she feels vulnerable or that the situation is being abused in this context, then being classed like that tends to give the bank more powers to act. Now, clearly, I'm not suggesting that anyone pretends they are being abused. Abuse is a very wide term. But clearly, her ex-partner is abusing financial trust by spending money and building up a debt. I presume she has asked him not to when they shouldn't be doing so. So the definitions are pretty difficult here. But I think it is a problem that we have with joint bank accounts. For me, it seems that you should have a unilateral right to close down a joint bank account or at least remove yourself from the joint bank account because in these type of eventualities.

8:14That doesn't mean that you abrogate responsibility for debts built up before you did so, because that's the nature of a joint bank account. But there should be a point where you could say, I don't want to be linked with this person in a bank anymore. and that should stop and that you should have a right. But as far as I'm aware, you don't have a right. Although the argument on this is that consumer duty that you now have, that you could argue under the consumer duty, potentially they should do it. But that's a tough one to find. On the back of that question, I'm going to speak to the Economic Abuse Charity to see if they've got anything that I don't have and I will cover it in a future week.

8:49Are you sitting there thinking, oh, I know what I wanted to ask him? Well, this is your opportunity. If you've got a question, then just send them in to martinlewispodcast at bbc.co.uk. And please do start them, dear Martin. No, dear Matt. Dear Martin. Dear Matt. Now, at that point, Matt, I think it's probably time that we went into a caller, surely? Let's do it. We've got Steve. He's in Devon. Hi, Steve. Hi, Matt. Hi, Martin. Hello, Steve. Hello. How are you? Very well, thank you very much. What can I do for you today? Yeah, well, thanks. Lovely to speak to you, Martin. Thanks for taking my call.

9:29My question is around direct debits and particularly the cancellation of them. So the background to this is that I set up a direct debit with an organisation back in September 23 and received confirmation including direct debit guarantee that you'd expect. The final statement on the DD guarantee states that you can cancel a DD at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society written confirmation may be required please also notify us so i'm in a situation where i've received a letter from an organization after cancelling the dd at my bank and been informed that i'm in breach of their dd agreement and they intend to actively pursue the debt which may include legal action so my question really is this what does please also notify us or any organization actually mean when cancelling what is meant by notify us and when can and can't a consumer cancel a DD at the bank and should this be ignored by the organisation?

10:21So you always have a legal right to cancel your direct debit with the bank. That's what the direct debit guarantee means. It's the same as if you dispute a payment, they should stop the payment and give you the dispute before talking to the other party. But that is totally separate from what is going on here. Right. So that literally means you have a right to tell the bank, don't pay these people. But in the same way, I'm going to try and do an analogy that I'm thinking off the top of my head. In the same way, if you went to a builder and the builder came and did some building work on your house and you chose not to tell your bank to pay the builder, you still have a dispute with the builder.

11:05And this is sort of a bit like that. So you can cancel your direct debit. You can stop the payment. You can not utilise the bank for making the payment. but if you have a contractual obligation with the firm that you were paying and that they think you owe them money, then you still owe them money if they're right. I don't know whether they're right or not. And so this, where I would commonly say you have to be careful, for example, if you have a two-year mobile phone contract that you're paying by direct debit, you're entitled to cancel the direct debit anytime you like, but you've still got a two-year contract.

11:35And if you're in breach of your contract, you're in breach of your contract, and that's separate to the direct debit. I think that's what's going on here. Have I interpreted that right? Yes, that is right. I can't really see a contract outside of the direct debit and a start date, really, and an ongoing direct debit. But I guess by default that is the legal agreement. Did they continue to provide you with the service after you cancelled the direct debit? Or had you not paid for a service you had already had before the direct debit? I cancelled the direct debit and stopped using their service. So I guess they would argue that I could have used it, but I wasn't using it.

12:11Yeah, they see that's quite interesting because... So I think the way to philosophically think of this is there are two separate elements here. There's a contract, and we can argue whether there's a written contract and what was in the contract or not, and there's a direct debit. And you've cancelled the direct debit, but you've not said to them, I'm not using your service anymore, which is not a part of the direct debit. That's a part of the agreement that you have with them. So again, if we take the really simple analogy, you've got a window cleaner coming, and you decide and you were paying your window cleaner by direct debit and then you decide to cancel the direct debit that's not the same as telling the window cleaner i'm not don't want you to come anymore that's just the same as saying i'm not going to pay you by direct debit anymore and i think that's sort of what's going on here um is it a lot of money that's outstanding it's uh 114 pounds and it's more the fact that the the threat of legal action and obviously i don't want that hitting my credit report yeah well i think you should get back to them and say I believe by cancelling the direct debit I was cancelling your service clearly you don't believe that rather than this all stepping up is there an accommodation we can come to that meets somewhere in the middle right okay but I'm giving you that I just need to be really clear to protect myself and to protect you I'm not a lawyer and this you know you have a contractual dispute you could go to a lawyer for that not sure you're going to want to for 140 quid or whatever it was but my one I and I haven't got the documents in front of me and all of that I'm giving you the, you know, this is the you ask a sensible friend in the pub answer rather than anything more than that, if you get what I'm trying to say.

13:44But I think there's an issue here that they think you had an ongoing relationship and you said, I'm not going to pay you through direct debit. That's not quite the same as I don't want your service anymore. And I suppose the lesson that we all learn from that is make sure you're clear with the provider that you've stopped using the service at the time. OK, yeah, that makes sense. And especially because their argument would be we put in our notice to you that you need to notify us as well. Yes, correct, which I acknowledge, yeah. Yeah. Agreed, yeah, I understood. That's great. Thanks for everything you do for everyone, Martin.

14:11Great to speak to you. Cheers, buddy. Let's do one from Scott in North Finchley. He says, hey, Martin, and curator of questions. Can you update people on my new title, please? So when they email in, they'll... What is your new title? Proz, Proz... No, no, no. Is that a name? That's a name. Right. Your role on the show... Esquire? Your role on the show is you are the Prodzenter. Prodzenter. Your title is you are the curator of questions. And what about the Esquire? Slightly different. Esquire was just me giving you a non-horrific. That's not something you can claim as a regular. So curator of questions.

14:45Curator of questions is your role. Esquire. Your job is prod centre. Right, okay. Anyway, let's get on to Scott's question. He has emailed in. He says, my wife is pregnant, we found out, and I've started looking into everything going forward. Congratulations, can I just say. as a dad it's one of the things that gives me most joy in my life I hope everything goes well for both of you and it gives you much happiness too carry on oh that's nice he says my question is regarding child benefit I earn 45k and my wife earns 68k would I be able to claim child benefit for us or would her being over the 60k affect us both or only if she claimed okay the good news is you will still benefit from child benefit There is the high income child benefit tax charge that effectively recoups what you were given in child benefit if one of you is a higher earner.

15:39So your question's right. It isn't about your total earnings. Slightly unjust system. I campaigned on it in the past, but I'm not going to go into that. It is about the highest earners earnings. The threshold was put up a couple of years ago. So the way it now works is you net effectively start to lose child benefit if the highest earner earns over 60 ,000 and you lose all the benefit of child benefit if the highest earner earns over 80 ,000. your wife is the highest earner she earns 68 000 pounds which is two-fifths or 40 percent of the way through the child benefit threshold between the 60 and the 80 so she will lose 40 percent of the gain of child benefit it's it's linear so but the the key point is you will still gain from child benefit so for every 10 pounds you're given in child benefit you will gain six pounds as opposed to someone who earned less would gain the full£10.

16:36That's what I'm saying. So you still want to get child benefit. That's still absolutely worthwhile for you to do, and you should claim it. The way you repay it, well, if your wife does self-assessment, then she will repay it through her self-assessment tax form. If she doesn't do self-assessment, she's PAYE, you can now request to have your tax code changed so that the amount that comes out of the payroll on PAYE actually takes into account the child benefit and we claws back that little bit that you're going to have to claw back but it is still a net gain for you both as an aside if you'd been saying we earned 85 000 your wife earned 85 000 pounds should she claim it and i said there wouldn't be a gain i would still be telling you to claim child benefit and the reason for that is that it is the claiming of child benefit that triggers the possibility that you get national insurance credits for childcare.

17:26And those national insurance credits for childcare go towards the combined national insurance credits that get you the state pension entitlements. If one of you were to stop working or whoever's claiming stop working, but they would still get the national insurance credits for childcare. But if you don't claim child benefit, that doesn't happen. So what you would do if you earned over 80 ,000, and I'm sorry, Scott, this isn't for you, but I'm generalising it for other people listening, then you would still want to claim it, but you'd claim it at the zero rate. So you claim child benefit, but say, pay me nothing, then you don't have to have it clawed back which is a little bit complicated but hopefully you get through what I'm talking about and as a further aside so that's two aside so it's an aside aside it's probably an offside but I'll carry on um if you have some a grandparent or close relative who looks after your child unpaid for you while you're at work because you're both working and therefore earning national insurance credit from work you can generally uh there is a scheme where you can transfer your national insurance childcare credit to them if they are looking after a child.

18:25You need to go and look it up. I'm not going to dot all the I's and cross all the T's on it for you. But it's just worth saying we've had a lot of successes on that and it's been that the grandparents who've been doing this, who might not have been working for the last few years of their life and weren't entitled to their full state pension, suddenly find that they're entitled to a few more years and that builds up and they get to the full state pension and it's worth thousands or tens of thousands of pounds. So that's just worth everybody having in the back of their head.

18:50so now matt following our normal structure and format you're going to read out a question you think is a fun one i have a different question for you it's not quite the funny but it's not quite the normal one that you do it's a caller okay tom is not it's not snakes versus bear again or snake versus dragon is it no it's it's fish versus no it's not it's tom in london hi tom What can I do for you, Tom? So my question is a bit out there. So as much as we've probably got 20 odd years left of Martin Lewis, have you given any thought as to what might happen when the day comes that you decide you want to spend more time in your garden than on the telly or the radio?

19:32Is there someone else out there that's on the horizon or in the wings that you know of that would pick up the good work that you do? this is a really interesting question and it's something i have thought a lot about over the years i don't know how long i've got left it is quite hard keeping up on update on everything that's the really challenging thing and also social media can be quite a cesspit and that's quite nasty if i'm honest and sometimes there are days i wake up tom i'll be honest with you i think why why on earth do i bother um but anyway that's that's not the point so look i actually went through this at the point that i sold money saving expert you'll know i'm still executive chair I still in charge of strategy and content of the site and everything that goes on that and at the time um some of the the the suits in the corporate were like you know where where's our replacement person and we went through a lot of talking about it and and I say this without self-aggrandizement I'm one of those people who happen to be right person right place right time right situation right everything came I started doing what I was doing just at the growth of the internet.

20:37I built a website in a way no one could ever build a website of that size now. You know, I only spent 80 quid on it. Now you'd need two million pounds of content advertising because when I was starting out on Google, if you were top of natural search, you were top of the page. These days, you know, there are 10 or 12 adverts ahead of you at top of the page in natural search, which means if you really want to get your message out there, you're going to have to pay for advertising. And you couldn't build a site in the same way under those circumstances as you could when I started. And I did it by word of mouth.

21:06And it was at the same time when I could say my website on television when I first started in a way I couldn't now. And all of that confluence, and I came and come up with this whole new thing about giving answers rather than, you know, methods. And all of that was, I was, you know, very lucky, but happened to everything flew together. And the difficulty when we've discussed succession planning, and what we would do, is I don't think that's recreatable because, gosh, I don't want to sound horrible, but I'm going to try and be blunt. I'm the money person who's broken out of money. And a lot of my television stuff, if I'm really honest with you, they tend not to be money slots.

21:47They're Martin Lewis money slots. And if I'm not there, they don't do them. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I think we need a Martin Lewis, don't we? I think that's the thing. But there wasn't one before me. There were different iterations. there was Watchdog and there was That's Life and I'm not sure that a direct replica will happen because one of the things that I have that is different from another commentator is I've been there all that time and I'm a player rather than a commentator as you'll know when I talk I've met this person, I asked for this, I've written that letter, I've done this rather than here's what's going on and I think that's a difficult bit to replicate so my suspicion is when I do I mean listen it would be great if there were other voices out there that could get the reach that I have and they might come up in the next 10 and 15 years and I'll be wrong and if they're doing the right thing and they're helping consumers I will be patting them on the back and say go for it and it'll allow me to put my feet up which I'd be quite happy with but on the other hand if not I think that I will be replaced by a collection of people and I think also the social media age will probably throw up someone who does it in a different way who's the right person right place right time in their social media age for coming up and getting messages out in a different way to younger people but I think it is unlikely and I say this again without wanting to sound like a prat or self-aggrandising I think it's unlikely there will be a direct replica I think it will come in a different fashion a different version and it might be two or three people in different sectors what do you think?

23:13what's your view? I think you're right I think there will be there's some very good social media educators on personal finance there's lots of people out there but I don't think you know like you say I don't think there is one person And I just don't think there's anyone who's on a level. I don't think there's anyone out there that has the trust in the public like you do. No, well, it's kind of you to say, sir. I think it is that reach and it's the sort of 20 years of doing it and that mix of, you know, someone said it to me the other day. The building the website, which says I'm not just somebody employed.

23:46I actually, this was my passion and this is what I put together and I built this. And we've still got that platform intermixed with everything else I do is very difficult. and we certainly internally at MSE have never found a way to replicate and it's still me who's driving the content it's still me who's coming I dictate the editorial line so I'm invested in it so I think there will be different iterations and there will be someone but in the way there wasn't me before but there were other things and they were more curative and it was a different age I think there will be something different that comes in future and I hope there will be anyway and maybe I need to think in my retirement plan about how I bring along a whole host of young new people who can talk about money in a way and make sure that they understand from day one that you've got to have the ethics right.

24:25Yeah, and come with a Martin Lewis stamp of approval. Maybe so. There you go. You don't want the job, do you? No, no, I'm good. You sound like you're my age anyway, are you? I'm guessing. I'm late 30s. No, you're much younger than me. You're much younger. No. Ouch. Zach, you can't tell. You had a very mature, rich tone. That was why. It was beautiful, rich tone. Thank you. I'm digging myself up. Thank you for your question. I hope I've answered it. You have. Thank you. Thank you. cheers mate appreciate it cheers Tom bye bye so I think we're on to final question time Pat what's our last one final question has been emailed in but this person wants to remain anonymous ooh well we can call we can make up their name for them Eileen Dover Eileen Dover Inappropriate no it's not I didn't mean it wasn't meant to be rude Eileen Dover it's a good name Irma Saver oh I like that one Anonymous Anonymous.

25:22Let's do that one. So this is Anne. You have a question from Anonymous. I hope it's not a difficult or sad question. I hope it's a nice fun one and I haven't just got all... Right. Don't worry. What is Anne asking? Anne has a nice question. So she sold her property and she completes on the 30th of Jan. So she's already completed. However, she's got nowhere to go. So she's moving in with her daughter for a bit. So she says she's just wondering what should she do with the proceeds of the sale, which is about£250 ,000. Okay. She says, I already have an account which has a balance of£87 ,000. I could put some in there to top it up to£115 ,000, but that would still leave me with more than the maximum the banks would guarantee in my current account.

26:09Should I open another savings or current account to put the money in? I'm looking to use the money to buy another property, but as yet, I just haven't found one. So I need to have some advice as to what best to do with this large sum of money, which is easily accessible for when I purchase my next property. Perfect. Right. So, miso-onymous, my answer to you is you have clearly defined that we need to be talking about savings here because you need this money readily accessible at any time you want in the near future for you to use that money to buy a house. So we're not talking the investment category that this is money for longer term use and it's money that you will need.

26:45The first thing I don't like, and I can tell you, I like you being anonymous because I can tell you off. I don't like saying I already have an account. I mean, this is about, you have a real amount of money,£250 ,000. We need to make sure that while you are temporary custodian of it as cash, it is in a safe place earning you the maximum amount of interest possible. And now you're slight close on the protection, the Financial Services Compensation Scheme Protection for Money in Deposit Savings Account. has gone up to£120 ,000 per person per financial institution. Actually, as you've got money from the sale and completion of a house, you are actually covered by the lifetime event rule that says you're covered for up to£1.4 million per financial institution per person for six months.

27:32But still, because we don't know whether you're going to do this for six months, I would be looking at this and going, you have a total of... So you've already got an account with the balance sheet, you've got a sale proceeds. So you have a total of£360 ,000. Well, that's three accounts. And when I say accounts, it's actually three separate financial institutions. And now if we're talking 10, it starts to get quite difficult to get a good rate. But when you're talking three, there are lots of decent rates out there. You could put some in an easy access cash ISA like Trading 212. You can only put 20 grand in there, but that's tax free because you're going to be paying tax on this interest because of the amount that you've got.

28:07So you want to protect as much as you can from tax. I don't know if you have a partner. I'm pausing because I'm trying to think of a good name for an Onimus' partner. Ollie. OK, so if Ollie, Ollie Onimus, I don't know if that makes any sense, but I'm enjoying myself. So if you have a partner, then you could give them and you have a trusted relationship, on the lines of what we talked about earlier, then you could give them£20 ,000 to go in their cash ISA and use their cash ISA allowance too. But in general, you're looking at probably the top three easy access savings accounts. You should be earning over 4 % in them.