AI and Money - Changing Attitudes?

0:00Pete Matthew: Hi, folks, and welcome back to the Meaningful Money Podcast. This is session number 643, incredibly. And today I'm joined by Tom Mathar of Aegon. He'll introduce himself much better than I will in just a second. But we're discussing the subject of our relationship with AI. Our, that's us as a population, as consumers. is our relationship to AI, particularly when it comes to our finances. Tom's employer, Agon, have done some research on this, asked some great questions, and the results are what we're going to talk about. Tom is a very engaging speaker. I know you're going to enjoy this. And he has a podcast himself called Money Mind Shift.

0:41Pete Matthew: I'll make sure there's a link to that in the notes. But, yeah, I think that's it. I know you're going to enjoy this. So let's get straight into it. Here's my conversation with Tom. Well, it's my pleasure to welcome Thomas Matar to the Meaningful Money podcast. Tom, how are you doing, bud? Okay. I'm very well. Thank you. So excited to be here. Thank you for having me. No worries. Well, I'm kind of returning the favor because you had me on recently, didn't you? Yes. Just mentioned the podcast that you do. Yeah, it's the Money Mindshift podcast. And we have a strapline called Your Life, Your Money, in that order.

1:12It conveys the impression that, you know, it's not really about money. It's about the life you want to fund with the money. and you joined us to speak to how to build a financial plan that supported, of course, that vision.

1:26Pete Matthew: Yeah, yeah, we had a good conversation. So other than the podcast, do you want to just give folks a summary of kind of who you are and what you do? Yeah, sure. So I'm an educator, I suppose. I'm an author, podcaster, trainer. It really speaks to this notion of like financial life planning and the big argument, as I said, is that money really isn't the point. Yeah, it's not about earning, investing, spending borrowing protecting and so on for the sake of the money but in order to use all this as a tool to fund the life that you want to live so that's what i speak right and so on yeah sure and how do you get to this because you're doing a lot work for agon aren't you yes i work for agon i started off as a researcher uh so did the usual sort of you know what customers want need hope for fear, etc.

2:16and so on. And then gradually got into the space of behavioral finance and financial psychology. I'm a trained anthropologist. So, you know, I have this sort of human behavior lens. I apply this all the time. Gradually, as a company, we became more interested in financial well-being. And that's really, you know, where financial well-being, behavioral finance, financial psychology, where that sort of meets, that's the space that I sort of grew into. Great.

2:43Pete Matthew: And it's, I mean, Agon are absolutely the forefront of this. I know you've done a lot of work with my good friend, Chris Budd and the great team at Alvation, for whom financial well-being is a kind of core tenet of what they're doing now with podcasts and all that. And so, you know, it's obviously a good fit with you and your employers at the moment. Now, Ego, speaking of, they've commissioned this study. I say they, maybe you commissioned it, I don't know. But a study specifically into how people are sort of engaging with AI around their finances. And it's obviously just such a hot topic. It's not going anywhere, is it?

3:16Pete Matthew: It's only going to become more and more sort of prominent, I think. So what was the kind of trigger for commissioning this research and why now particularly? Yeah, I mean, it was exactly that observation that you shared, that it's kind of everywhere and people are talking about it. And, you know, there's ever more influencers who tell us that we ought to use it for that purpose. And, you know, for many people, it appears it has crossed this line, you know, that it isn't just there, but it is permanently being used. So there was a lot of sort of, you know, question marks around this. How do people use this?

3:51And that's why we sought to understand it and commissioned this study to ask 2 ,000 people exactly.

3:58Pete Matthew: So 2 ,000 people. So it's a good sample and quite a representative sample of age groups as well, isn't it? Yes, exactly. That's very important because I imagine we'll get into the some differences based on how the different horse relate. Do you want to just give us sort of like the broad headlines? I realize that's a big ask, but maybe just one of the things, particularly from the top. And then we can dig in a bit. Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, as ever, Pete, you know, there's a lot of division these days. Right. So so what we see, there's perhaps broadly two camps. And camp number one, this is about one in three or just over 38 % who say they really trust AI when it comes to financial decision making.

4:40And then we have another third, so just under 31%, who say they avoid using it. So we have those sort of two camps and trust really is splitting a generation. So broadly, you can say, you know, the younger you are, the more likely you are to say you trust the thing. The older you are, you're more likely to say you avoid the thing. And well, perhaps partly as a result, and that's perhaps a bit of a headline figure, it's Gen Z, right, who are most likely to use it and who are most likely to say that they've come to make or change a financial decision after they've had a chat with AI.

5:26Pete Matthew: i mean that sort of makes sense i feel like i probably could have saved you some money on the the research because i probably could have told you that obviously you've gone a lot deeper but that makes sense doesn't it you know obviously we've got a digital generation uh yeah you know my girls are sort of young millennials really so yes you know they're a little bit older than that but i totally get it i'm sure there is a difference between what kind of queries yeah different cohorts are asking though so you know what sort of queries are people putting in AI what's what elements and aspects of our finances are we talking to chat unity and others about yeah and you know what perhaps um before I before I say this uh because I think I I sense that perhaps you will find this again not really surprising I think that uh the reason the reason I will say I find it interesting is because I really think, you know, the big issue or the real big challenge that we have when we make financial decisions is that really why this is so complicated is because we always at all times ought to think through how a financial decision that we're taking today affects not only today, but also tomorrow, right?

6:35So these sort of like trade-offs between present self and future self and present self and possible self, that's what I'm really interested in. And that's why perhaps it is interesting to see that really the queries that we have when we speak to AI are present day related. And so, yeah, exactly. So, so, so again, like on the surface, not really surprising, right? So it is the budgeting related questions. It's the, you know, how to save related questions. Then a bit down, like, you know, medium term saving, you know, how to do this. And then further down comes how to invest. And then further down still comes retirement.

7:15Right. Again, on the surface, not really surprising. But I find it interesting simply because, you know, really financial decision making is so complicated because we need to think about different timelines. But we're not really doing this sort of blind spots that we seem to be having in everyday life to sort of translate into the way we're using AI.

7:35Pete Matthew: Yeah, I feel like it's my job as an advisor very often to kind of raise people's heads and sort of take them out of the, usually the thing that they've immediately presented about. I have just inherited this money. What should I just do with it now? And it's my job as an advisor. So, you know, let's just look at the whole picture here. Is that what your long term plans are, medium and long term plans? I mean, is the fact that, I mean, is AI kind of doing the same thing? The question, if people are asking short term sort of immediate needs questions, are they getting the kind of bigger picture stuff from AI in return?

8:14No, not really. I mean, unless you exactly, I think what you ought to do is you ought to be aware of the biases that come with AI and the biases that come with yourself and when you use AI, right? And one of those biases is framing. Okay, so when you go into AI and you say, you know, how dangerous is X or whatever, you know, how dangerous is it to eat an apple a day? That's right, right? So you frame it in a particular way and then AI will go down that rabbit hole and will give you, you know, a good answer to that particular question. But of course, you know, it has framed it in a way to think about the question in a particular way.

8:59It is not necessarily trained to then do the step that you just articulated you would do when you are sitting down with clients, which is to think beyond that. So I think we want to be aware of, you know, the biases that come with AI, but also the biases that come, you know, that are sort of like inherent in us. And yeah, perhaps, you know, a good follow up question to ask perhaps at any point in any conversation with AI is to ask it to identify what sort of biases and errors of thought are prevalent in the way I ask the questions, you know, just to give the thing permission to think a bit further.

9:38I think then perhaps, you know, it can become more powerful. But without that, without the according prompts, it will perhaps be and remain in this rabbit hole.

9:47Pete Matthew: It really is about the prompts, isn't it? Because otherwise it's just, you know, your answer in the question, as you say, how you frame it is going to govern everything. I heard somebody say that really AI's job is to kind of, it's a prediction engine. It's predicting the next answer, which obviously will be based on the prompt and the question. Yes. As opposed to if, I mean, I love using AI as a thought partner, but you have to tell it, you know, act like a business coach. Challenge my assumptions. Look for these hidden biases in my questions that I may not be aware of myself. Give the thing permission.

10:21Pete Matthew: Then, I mean, certainly some of the more recent models are unbelievably capable. Unless we give it that permission, it's not going to happen, is it? Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly right. And we don't necessarily know the framework to apply when asked. I mean, this is a quite broad, open question, like, you know, what are my biases? You know, when you look carefully at the way I phrase my questions, what do you see as my biases? You will get something back in return. But I would argue that, you know, for example, the framework, the lens that we apply in Money Mind Shift, where we would say, you know, yes, security is important.

10:56OK, but so is happiness. Right. And so is purpose and so is belonging and so is health and so on. Right. So all these things are equally important, one could argue. But crucially, also, it's not just about today, it's also about tomorrow. Right. So here you have a bit of a framework, security, happiness, purpose, belonging and so on. so that when you go into a conversation with an AI bot on budgeting, right, you could then say, right, okay, well, here now we've worked out a bit of, you know, this is my household income and we worked out, you know, how we may want to approach budgeting from a technical point of view.

11:32But what does that mean in terms of happiness, right? And what does that mean in terms of relationships, in terms of health? You know, what sort of blind spots may I have, not only as far as the today goes, but as far as tomorrow goes and as far as, you know, who I may be goes as well. Yeah, yeah. So important.

11:50Pete Matthew: One of the questions you asked, I think, was broadly around sort of the reasons people turn to AI, or transmissions about their finances. And so I found it absolutely fascinating. Actually, it's a pretty reasonable proportion of people cited fear of judgment if they ask those same questions of a human being. Yeah. What's going on there, man? And I feel like there's underlying reasons there, I would think. Yeah, exactly. So there were two questions there. One was, I would ask AI a question that may come across as silly. Okay, so I hesitate, you know, to ask this as a human because I may come across as silly.

12:27And the other one was sort of like fear of judgment. I think the two are perhaps different things. So to pick up on silly first. And you know what? I can actually totally relate to this. I have an example outside of finance. I just I recently had someone in who checked the boiler right and the guy told me in very technical terms you know why I needed some certain type of filter you know where the where the pipes connect and he gave me the term and so on and and I was like oh yeah that makes sense and of course it didn't right what I did do was I wrote down the term that he used and then later on I went to AI and said you know what's that term you know and said this was the sentiment explain to me what that guy was on about.

13:08Okay. And then AI can, of course, talk about, well, this is what it was, right? And this is why it was important and so on. And I think, you know, the reason I say this is because, yes, of course, you know, perhaps there's a sense of there's shame, there's guilt, there's like overwhelmed, there's exactly, you know, whatever there is. But perhaps also there's an indication in there that the way financial services, you know, professionals speak about money is still awfully technical. and as a result you just turn to the AI to just you know have it been explained in in in simple terms so that's the silly bit right so is wanting to avoid coming across silly the other thing is the um judgment okay so where we where we fear that when we ask a question or when we bring up a subject that we're being judged and I think here a so look I think the sort of immediate reaction to this would be, again, we're feeling shame, you know, because we shouldn't be in that situation or we have done the wrong thing.

14:08We're feeling like all those things. Okay. But perhaps a more charitable reading as well is that there is an understanding that when we talk about money, we really don't just talk about money. Right. So, I mean, again, as an example, when I do my, my, my speaking, you know, I bring up a picture of Johannes Vermeer's The Girl with the Pearl

14:28Pete Matthew: earring right you know perhaps the beautiful yeah yeah so so and then i asked the audience what do you see in that girl right and then a hand goes up and first one says well curiosity okay okay and the next one goes i don't know anxiety and the next one goes discomfort or whatever okay so and and the point is of course there's no right or wrong answer here right um Really, what objectively this is, is oil on canvas. But what the point is that we are seeing something in it, and what we're seeing in it is perhaps telling more about ourselves than it is about the picture. So when you say it's curiosity, then perhaps it says more about you being curious.

15:11And when I say it's anxiety, it's more about you being anxious, and so on. And the point is the same. It's about money. So money is never just a means of exchange, but for some people it is control. For some people, it is evil. For some people, it is freedom and so on. Okay, so different people have different understands of what money is. And as a result, I can see, you know, why you may turn to an AI agent or an AI bot, okay, to have a conversation about money because here you are not speaking to someone where all this sort of, you know, belief and attitude and, you know, overload that comes with a money conversation, you know, is actually taken away, right?

15:50Because after all, it's not a human, right? So many of these things just being stripped away. So I have a sort of, I totally get it, right? Instinctively, it's perhaps a read of, you know, people feeling guilty and having all those sort of like bad emotions. But I would like to think, well, perhaps there's a sort of like productive and, you know, a positive reading in this statistic.

16:12Pete Matthew: Yeah, I hope so. And it's actually a resource that we just haven't really had before. Certainly nothing as powerful as what the models are able to do now. I mean, I'm continually, daily astonished by what these things are able to do, for better or for worse. I do find, unless you tell it not to be, I do find, as we perhaps alluded to earlier on, that AI can be quite sycophantic. Yes. Great point, Pete. And then they'll tell me why I'm great in 10 people who formatted bullet points. And so I make a point of saying, you know, don't blow smoke off my hands. Yeah. Tell me if you think I'm wrong, if challenge my assumptions and things like that.

16:56Pete Matthew: But I noticed that in the research, quite a large number of people said that they'd had their minds changed on whatever they were asking. Yeah. By the AI. Yeah. I'm still kind of trying to work out whether that's a good thing or not, really. Oh, you're right. You're right. I mean, I had it the other day. I was working through, I can't recall what it was, but it was some sort of thorny problem. I was working through with ChatGPT and then I was looking at different angles. And then one point, ChatGPT said, I personally think, I mean, like that already, right? Yeah, you had the audacity. You personally, right?

17:33Like, who are you? I personally think that's the best solution you've come up with, right? So yeah, absolutely. We want to be aware of this, right? So this is a bit like connects a little to what we talked about earlier, the biases that are sort of inherent in the AI. And one thing is that it wants to be affirmative, right? It wants you to feel good. The other is, as we talk, you know, the framing, you know, so the way you ask a question. And the other thing is perhaps, you know, authority bias. You know, whenever something appears to come from a really credible source, right? some really professional expert or some real high-profile academic institute.

18:17So then it seems to be giving this thing much more weight. And as a result, we've got to be... I always think that AI comes across like a really confident intern. And that's something we want to be mindful of. It can be this, you said it before, a thinking partner. It can be this real powerful thinking partner. but yeah it's it can only be that if we are mindful of um the biases that come with it and as a result we've got to be taking it all with a pinch of salt when it really guides us

18:52Pete Matthew: to decision making yeah beware the overconfident intern nobody wants that um and yes i mean there is a difference though between using our as a thinking partner no matter how well and carefully you do that but it seems like there's a reasonable number of people who are essentially i want to say delegating but i think the word is abdicating decisions literally asking ai what should i do yeah now and it's not it's a reasonable proportion i don't think i wrote down the number of people but it's a reasonable proportion of your response to the survey are asking ai to make decisions for them that worries me a fraction yeah i mean it depends a little bit what it is again right i I mean, so budgeting, you know, there can be some real, like, sensible rules of club that are being conveyed, right, when it is budgeting.

19:42I mean, perhaps you knocked me down now with Sharp Laws, Pete, when I shared this example. But I had it. I went to a shop up in Edinburgh where I am in Leith Walk. I went to the tailor shop, okay, to have something. anyway and um and the lady went oh last time you were here you told me i've got to invest in an ISA right and i'd forgotten but she told me about you know she wants to save for her children's education and so on and so i said well have you looked into an ISA and i said no i i still haven't done this you've got to tell me like how to do this i kind of like well you know i you know i we don't have that relationship and i'll sit down with you but i said well you know what when i pick the thing up i i i have printed out a prompt that you can use with ai okay take from there and what i said was something like you know my customer told me i should open an isa and i should go to a low-cost platform like x and i should invest in a low-cost tracker like y and i should put on a sum of you know z per month um and that then the then the questions were something like you know is this plausible is this legitimate explain to me the risks and then here the punch line um the the the last line was and explain all to that all of that to me in romanian okay because she's romanian and her english is bad okay so so look i mean so so here i'm thinking you know is that good or bad i mean there's of course you can see the risks that come with this okay but i thought you know like you know on balance i thought the potential here was stronger than than the risk

21:25Pete Matthew: yeah no i absolutely agree i just i guess i'm thinking for a minute i always get slightly nervous it doesn't happen often but whenever a client basically says oh whatever you think is best pete we'll we'll do that yeah usually that happens i mean with older clients and usually people who have been clients of jackson's for like 30 years you know and i've been able to see them for 20 years and obviously we've got relationship we've got trust i mean that's lovely but the answer is still no no i want you to understand why i'm recommending this yes and when they say well yeah i just don't really understand like yeah yes you do come on i need you to because you can't abdicate this snuff you have to continue to take responsibility for it i will help you as much as i can but you've got to retain agency yeah um and so i guess you know in providing a prompt like that you've essentially done that you know this this lady will hopefully given that it's going to be in her native tongue will understand better yeah as a result and then you've given her some agency just using the tool of ai i think that's a brilliant idea yeah i'll write that one down yeah no i think you're absolutely right by the way and people need to understand and they can't just delegate it away um i mean for one because they you know they are the captain of their ship they need to understand it even though of course you you help them the other thing is of course it's never really fixed is it i mean it's a like it's it's it's constantly evolving you know the the person who we are is constantly evolving and and as a result we need to sense check it we can't just like delegate it away whether that's a financial planner or a husband or an ai bot or whoever yeah we've got to be yeah we've got to be yeah involved all the time Yeah, there are people mentioned concerns.

23:16Pete Matthew: People raise concerns, I think, in the research that you guys have done, Aigon. And, you know, what is it that people are kind of worried about? What are their concerns when using AI, particularly for personal finance questions? Yeah, there were two families of worries. That's an appropriate term. The one is more sort of like technical and practical. Okay, so there were about half were concerned about privacy and accuracy and security. and so on. And I mean, that makes sense, right? I mean, obviously, you know, your financial data is perhaps the most sensitive, amongst the most sensitive data.

23:50And, you know, a very confidently put answer, you know, by the AI pod on your retirement plan can potentially be quite expensive. So, you know, these are valid concerns. The second family I thought was more interesting, And that was that 41 % of four in 10 people, they said that they are concerned about losing human interaction. Right. Yeah. And I felt that was interesting because, you know, this is hinting at people understanding that they're trading off something for the convenience. Yeah. And two, what I said earlier, that in financial life planning, it's never just about the money and it's never just about security and happiness.

24:36You know, belonging and the networks you're in is a really important variable to consider in all this. So I thought that was an interesting point. By the way, also, I will say, you know, with regards to because we talked about shame earlier, you know, things like, you know, when potentially you turn to AI because you're feeling shameful, you know, for asking the question to a human. Now, shame is an emotion that, you know, grows in secrecy, you know, when you sort of keep it to yourself. And it is an emotion that sort of like diminishes and that you get on top of when you speak about it with others.

25:09So there is a real trade off when you don't do that with other humans. So I thought that was interesting, the sort of, yeah, the trading away, the human connection, and potentially a third dimension that the dependency on AI, perhaps in part as a result of that, that I thought were the more interesting concerns. Yeah,

25:31Pete Matthew: that is interesting. I feel like I kind of want to unpack that a little bit. I wonder, it speaks a little bit to my own belief and what I'm thinking about quite a bit at the minute because there's all kinds of talk. I'm just going to switch from kind of consumers to the financial planning profession. now yeah there seems to be a lot of noise in no small measure actually uh imparted by the ai companies um how these tools will enable advisors to manage many more client relationships than they do now people buying numbers of 200 300 uh families that a single advisor might be able to look at after because all the admin and a lot of the technical thinking work is done by an ai all in inverted commas all an advisor has to do is basically turn up and meet with the client now i disagree with that fundamentally my my kind of thinking no idea whether i'm going to be right or not but my thinking is that actually people will seek out stronger and deeper more meaningful relationships as almost a kind of backlash strong word yeah exactly what you're saying concerned about the loss of human contact and particularly where something is meaty and as life-changing as finance is concerned particularly the major transition points people will say well i can get hard data i can even get challenging thinking from an ai but i want to eyeball a human and i want somebody to hold my hand yeah through it so i actually think clients will probably need more input from good advisors going forward and we are definitely working on that at jackson's we are trying to reduce the number of clients per advisor so that we can offer deeper support what's your view no i think i think that's great i mean i think i think that's you know that'd be amazing if financial advisors were freed up to do more of that deep thinking that deep strategic thinking i think one of the you know big uh issues challenges that we have is that we are facing into um a life model that sort of like does away with this sort of like three-stage life where first you educate, then you work, and then you retire.

27:50This is a sort of model that has been normalized and institutionalized 150 years ago, and it's becoming ever more fragile. And ever more people are saying, well, do we really have to distribute the times that we are productive and the times that we are unproductive? Do we have to distribute them in that particular way? Or can we do this differently? And can we see career changes? Can we take time out to, I don't know, you know, do sabbaticals, re-education? Many assignments. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All those things. And of course, these are life questions, but they're also like financial planning questions, right?

28:27So advisors were freed up to think much more deeply about all those transitions, right, that happen along the way. then that yeah I think exactly the technical side could be automated but the advisors would be freed up to ask the right questions to be the right set of like thinking partner to get the information you need so as to you know see through the technical side of the life ambition or the transition ambition and so on so I think you're right yeah yeah I think it's fascinating and I

28:58Pete Matthew: guess there won't be one right way to do it there will be advisors I guess who offer this deep support to fewer families and really become part of the thinking fabric and working fabric and there will be ones who are more facilitators of transactions you know still under the regulated thing clients still have all the protection of that and we'll be able to deal with far more people neither is right or wrong it's just a different approach i guess yeah what about consumers though i mean where you know given what you've learned about how people are interacting with ai through the study um where do you see it going from here like more of the same or distant or what i mean I'm asking you to look into the future now.

29:34Pete Matthew: So if you could just do that, Tom, that'd be great. Yeah, exactly. This quote from Paul Gascoigne, the footballer, comes to mind, I never make predictions and I never will.

29:47So you know what? I mean, it is perhaps important to timestamp this conversation. So this is October 2026, right? And I think perhaps in a year's time, the way we talk about AI is potentially. Back on, right? Yeah, it's perhaps seen as quite naive, you know, because perhaps like all sorts of, you know, I mean, I guess, again, you know, we're speaking here about generative AI. So this is the sort of experience that you have with chatbots. We're not speaking so much about general AI where you have agents, you know, agents who perhaps, you know, translate an ambition into a retirement plan, who do your tax return, who do your, you know, whatever.

30:27and there's all of course this doom and gloom on you know ai agents building more ai agents and then finding like clever ways of making more money for themselves and humans standing by the sidelines not understanding what they're doing and so on i mean this is like you know so so who am i to say where this is going i do find interesting that even the likes of elon musk are now saying that this is going to be slowed down right and it's going too fast it needs some regulation but anyway So, you know, what I find reasons to be hopeful, and you know what, I think we do need a bit of hope, right? A bit of optimism.

31:04Yeah, I need a bit of optimism. Exactly. I had a conversation on my show on how to read the news, where a similar thing there, you know, there's a lot of doom and gloom in the news. And Jodie Jackson, she's a neuroconditioning expert, and she made the point that we need optimism, because if we don't have optimism, we wouldn't want to care for that future version of ourselves because we're not really, you know... That's a good point. Exactly, it's such a good point. So what gives me hope in all this is that I do think that AI, the incentive of AI is to be helpful, is to be useful. Yes, in fact, you know, we've talked about some of the biases and it's being affirmative and so on.

31:43But let's say, unlike social media, The incentive isn't to feed you the stuff that you are most likely to click on or that you are most likely to share further. And so you see here, I think the incentives in AI, within AI, at least the AI that we know at the moment, is better, stronger, reason to be more hopeful than the incentives that are baked in some of the other digital applications that we've wrestled with in the more recent past.

32:12Pete Matthew: It's a fascinating topic. And maybe I'll just get you on every October for the next five years and we'll just see how this all pans out. I bet that humans are still around then. Well, yeah, of course there is that. But I'm very skeptical about all this food mongering, you know, because at least two of these companies are pre-IPO. It's like, yeah, the world's going to hell in a handcart, but we can stop it. I know we're creating it, but we can also stop it. Please buy my shares. Yeah, you're so right. I think that's a very plausible explanation of what's going on here. I actually really appreciate the writings of Cal Newport.

32:47Pete Matthew: So he's famous for a book called Deep Work. He's done this as well, Digital Minimalism. I love his writing. He's a proper academic. But a lot of his effort and attention in the last 18 months or so has been sort of countering a lot of the AI hype. And he's a brilliant voice of reason, actually. And check it out. Yeah, so do check him out as a Cal Newport. doing some good stuff in the New York Times, but on his own website as well, really good. And his podcast is excellent. All right. So, I mean, are you going to kind of repeat this? Is this something they're going to kind of keep an eye on going forward?

33:21Pete Matthew: Do you know? So Money Mind Shift for the time being, yeah, we'll keep on. We have all sorts of conversations. I mentioned it, how to read the news, how to make a big decision. And so we have looked into how to think about AI. I mean, as AI will evolve, we will evolve with the subject. Yeah, fantastic. we'll put a link to the podcast is anywhere else that you would want to send people or just to the podcast for the time being yeah the podcast is great so you find that wherever you find your podcast and if you punch my name into Amazon or whatever bookstore of choice then you find my books there as well that's absolutely good Tom thank you for joining me mate I enjoyed that very much that was a joy thank you so much for having me Pete take it easy okay hope you enjoyed that my thanks again to Tom Matar just for sharing his expertise it's great when you get somebody on who really He really knows this subject and is able to articulate it so well.

34:10Pete Matthew: Now, next week, I have an in-person guest. I'm trying to think if that's ever happened. Maybe many years ago. But I have a beautiful studio here in Penzance. But because I live in Penzance, nobody ever comes to it. So most of my interviews are done remotely where I'm in the studio, but my guests are wherever they are. But next week, I have fellow financial planner, John Brenchley, coming in to the studio. to talk about a real passion of his, which is financial planning for families with special needs. So I'm looking forward to, I haven't actually chatting with John next. He's coming into the studio in two or three weeks' time.

34:48Pete Matthew: But the actual release of that episode will be next week as you're listening to this. So I look forward to that. But that's it for this week. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Tom and I'd be interested to know your thoughts on all things AI, how you're using it. So you can always drop us a line at hello at meaningfulmoney.tv. But that's it. Any links are at the show notes, meaningfulmoney.tv slash session 643. Hope you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for listening and watching. We'll see you next time.