Your Money & Your Mind - Adam Cockerham

0:00Pete Matthew: Hi folks and welcome to the Meaningful Money podcast. This is session number 632. No Roger today, just me. Well, just me and my guest because today is an interview with fellow Chartered Financial Planner Adam Cochran of William Dixon and Associates in Chippenham. So he calls himself an advisor in the southwest of England in the interview. Is Chippenham really the southwest? You know, Penzance is the southwest. but Adam reached out to me a few months ago asking if I'd like to read a draft of his debut book which is called Your Money and Your Mind here it is now sometimes my heart sinks a little bit when people ask me to read their book because believe me I have read some pretty sort of half-baked ill-conceived rubbish in my time but I'm very pleased to report that I was immediately hooked on Adam's book and it's coming out on the 28th of July why 2026 which is uh just before the day before this episode comes out so spoiler alert i highly recommend that you buy the book and read it and to find out why here's my conversation with its author adam cochran well it's my pleasure to welcome adam cochran to the meaningful money podcast adam how you doing bud i'm great man thanks so much for having me really appreciate you're very welcome i'm excited to chat adam you are the author of the brand new book your money and Your Mind, which you very kindly sent me a kind of pre-production draft to read through.

1:27Pete Matthew: And sometimes my heart sinks a little bit when people send me stuff to read, but I was gripped by this right from the start. It's a brilliant piece of work. So we're going to talk about that today. But before we do, just give folks a sense of who you are, what it is that you do, and how you got to this point. Yeah, of course. So I'm a chartered financial planner, same as you. Yep. I co-own a financial planning company in the southwest of England. So again, we have some very similar tendencies in that regard for sure. And I spend my day sitting across the table from clients, real human beings, helping them work out what to do with their money, make financial decisions that help them achieve their objectives.

2:08So, you know, you'll be very familiar with that, Pete. So how did you kind of, you know, what's the sort of career path at this point? Well, there's been a convergence really of two narratives, if you like. There's my personal interest and my own personal life and work on my mental health and my interest in all things philosophical.

2:32Pete Matthew: Okay. And my professional life of helping people with their money and watching their own experiences around it come to life in real time. so the the two of these things i just couldn't ignore how they operate together and this is how i've got to where i am right now and it's culminated in a book it has and you call the book the manifestation of the personal journey that you've been on so let's dig into that man what do you mean by that and why why this book and why now yeah okay so i've i had suffered with mental health issues for for around 10 years so a decade of depression and to a lesser extent anxiety but certainly the two came together and it was being in a prison of your own mind and many of your listeners may be familiar with that people the world over have struggled with these sorts of things and it was for a long time like wading through mud like days were hard and you know that that lowness of and that struggle and for the first part of it of this decade I thought that because I hadn't quite achieved the economic success or the financial success that I thought I was capable of I thought that that was perhaps the reason why I was feeling quite dissatisfied with life and as that period of time matured and my career became really took off and you know my financial circumstances had changed quite a bit I was still left really dissatisfied and it left me searching for answers because what I thought was the cure wasn't and it led me on this it resulted in me having a breakdown on New Year's Eve in 2021 with my wife and that was the point where I was like okay this you know this period of time it's it's been long and it's been difficult it's it's it's it's time to explore this now and how I go about it and a few rather serendipitously a few months later I was sent on this course with a leading psychologist on how the mind works and how to become better in business and a better leader but the front half of it was all about how the mind works and how we interact with reality okay and pardon the pump it blew my mind wide open my understanding of how i and my mind has been operating all this time completely shifted and i began this journey of self-inquiry you know philosophical insights leaning into how the mind works neuroscience all this sort of stuff and i became much happier the birds started tweeting again i could hear them the the greenness of a tree became more vibrant and this all sounds really fluffy but it will be sure to make sense soon and I was happy that the fog had gone and the way I was experiencing life was was completely and utterly different to what it was before and I started to notice these patterns in people's thinking whilst I was working with them professionally you'll have seen it before the the anxiety around money the the stress the emotional attachments and it just came to me that these two things are actually more closely related than I ever thought they were.

6:17So I called up the psychologist who ran the retreat. I went on that all that time ago. And we started working on these concepts and bringing it to life. And we worked very closely together. And four years later, here we are.

6:31Pete Matthew: Brilliant. That's helpful. So trees are greener, the birds are singing again. I mean, it's sort of long established, right, that there's a link between our money and our sort of sense of well-being and all that but why is this the case and I'm particularly interested in what you said about your experience because in the book you talk about this premise that really external experiences the things that happen to us they just are but it's really how we interpret them and kind of how we experience them that kind of takes them and affects how we feel as a result. So, I mean, talk to me about that, man, because I feel like we could talk about that for about five hours, right?

7:21Pete Matthew: Because it feels like a big subject. We could, I've got as long as you need, Pete. Yeah, well, I'm not sure the listeners, well, maybe if it's good, right? So, I mean, what is that about, this external experience and the way that we feel it and the way it sort of affects us? What is all that about? Yeah, so I'll keep it brief and as tangible as I can, because I don't want to lose people in this at all. But many of us believe that our interaction with reality or our interaction with life, money, relationships, whatever it is, happens from the outside in. So the world happens to us, and that's why we feel the way we feel.

8:02But the actual mechanics of how the mind works, and I came to realize this by doing this deep work with a psychologist, is that actually the external world just is. We receive stimuli or electromagnetic signals or whatever you want to call it that enter our minds and we have to then pass through that information to decide what it means to us for us to then go off into the world and react to it.

8:31Pete Matthew: Okay. So I'm going to give you an example to bring it actually back to money because that's ultimately what this is about. So you'll have seen this plenty of times. You have two investors, two clients, for example, who receive the exact same information after a pandemic or an economic event or a president's tweets, whatever it is. The market has fallen by 15%. So the value of everyone's portfolio has fallen by 15%. That's the information. That's the, it just is. That's the information we receive. You go on a call at 9am with a client who is panicking. The world is ending. It was good while it lasted.

9:22This is a wholly negative experience. You could get a call at 10am from a client saying, rubbing their hands together, saying, hell yeah buddy what can we do let's take advantage of this and you may have the third you don't hear from because they've been through it a hundred times before yeah so what's the truth there is that information that we've received on the market value reducing is it bad information is it brilliant information or is it benign or actually is it all three or none of them simultaneously depending on the experience we then create out of it through our own thoughts and it all originates from thought which is the source code to our experiences that's where these experiences blossom from this very initial point so i have found that utterly fascinating because we believe these things just dictate how we feel but if it is rooted in thought then surely we have some element of control over our own thinking and therefore our experiences so that is what i've been exploring all this time so how then how then did you kind of apply that in

10:39Pete Matthew: your in your own situation you're going from what was obviously a pretty low point for you yeah led you to start exploring this i mean i sometimes think that the most uh difficult people to kind of master is ourself. So how did you do that? How did you sort of take what you were learning and apply it yourself? Well, I went a bit full on with it, so I'm not expecting it. It became all encompassing for a little while, but I had something I needed to do. So it might not be the same for everybody else. but reading about the mind consciousness our our experience of of life from even ancient traditions that have been talking about it for millennia that that was a really helpful introductory point for me to just intellectually explore these things but the the real work came from just simply practicing mindfulness and observing my own thoughts in real time it it sounds easy but it it's it's hard work of course it is like anything that's worth doing and i'm not perfect at it at all i couldn't profess to but observing your thoughts allows them to come and go and it creates a little bit of space for new thoughts to emerge before before your experience then materializes okay it might sound a little bit metaphysical but it's just the time of day and the investment in your own internal space before you go off and act out into the world and you might be able to shape it a little bit more so i mean is this you're practically speaking now is this in the form of uh you know like uh dedicated meditative time is it just sort of forcing yourself or learning to be more mindful through you know through throughout the whole day a lot well this is where it gets difficult because it i'm not personally that picky on how it comes about as long as the mind gets enough stillness to be able to be observed so for me meditation was was a real breakthrough because it put me in this 30 minute period each day where i could just be without any expectation of what i need to do or who i need to be or and I could watch the thoughts come in and out and just sit with them without judging them.

13:09And for me, that was incredibly helpful. And it actually became a very helpful tool for when I was making business decisions, client decisions, financial decisions, and other decisions in life. This isn't just about money, obviously. It's broader than that. But for some people, it might be going on a long run and clearing the thoughts. but whilst you're running enables some assessment of your thought for some it's being on the golf course for for some it's just being lost in jazz music or i don't whatever it is that gets somebody out of that repetitive thinking and into a state of just being aware and present i've dabbled with meditation i i like in so many things in my life

13:58Pete Matthew: I've been sort of inconsistent at it. But the thing that I keep coming back to is this observation of thoughts as they arrive and sometimes go as quick as they arrive. I always kind of thought that meditation was about kind of forcibly clearing your mind. But it's obviously, you know, if you try not to think of an elephant, the only thing you're going to think about is an elephant, isn't it? So this sort of just letting stuff come and go and not dwelling. But it is hard, isn't it? It does take practice. Very hard. So that's obviously something that you've done for a while now, and you're seeing the benefit from that.

14:37Do you think, like, is it sort of malaise of kind of Western thought

14:43Pete Matthew: that we tend to still dismiss some of this as a little bit flaky? I mean, do you think that's the case? And if so, why? Oh, for sure. So when you talk mindfulness, it's becoming much more accepted in the West, for sure. And there's a big movement behind it, and for good reason. But Eastern traditions have been doing this spiritual work, for want of a better phrase, for thousands of years. And they've been talking to the human condition and how helpful that is for thousands of years. But in the West, like you say, there's connotations around it. If you use the word spiritual, somebody may suddenly think of ghosts or Ouija boards or tarot cards or organized religion or whatever it is.

15:36But my own personal definition of spiritual work and internal inquiry is just allowing myself some observation time to to just be present because otherwise we start to identify with our minds and the chattering that that's in it and it's that chattering that well in the world of money can lead us to poor decisions or in the world of relationships it can lead us to poor decisions but when you take the time to engage in mindfulness practice you do actually see that there's part of you a space before the thought arrives and you don't die when you're not thinking you're still allowed so there's there's there's a bit there that is able to be objective about the thoughts you're having so it can get a bit abstract if you're not careful but just exercising your mind in the same way that you would exercise your physical body or you would work hard at work to improve your financial position or you'd go to the gym or go for a run our internal space is where we live it's the only home we'll ever have so we we may as well look after it for sure um we're

16:47Pete Matthew: going to get to sort of a little bit of practicalities in a second but i'm interested you said that you've you found the process of mindfulness and meditation like super helpful for making all kinds of decisions so i'm just interested as to sort of what the mechanics is of that I you know sort of take it as read that I understand that there's need for sort of stillness not uh kind of capturing thoughts necessarily as they as they come across your mind but just observing them letting them be and sometimes they'll just go and sometimes they'll linger but I mean if you're in the middle of a sort of mindfulness session and kind of inspiration strikes because this is my problem right sometimes I'll like something will pop on my head and I just grasp it and cling on to it with both hands and like then basically the whole thing's off then I've got to write it down or something so I'm interested in the process that you've gone through and how it has helped you make decisions around business or for clients or whatever so I was meditating when I came up with the idea to write the book okay I was midway through it and I stopped then because it was just a moment of intuition and it was my mind was clear and if I was too busy in the world that idea may have never not shown up so it's not about not distracting yourself from it because you can practice it in any any parts of your daily life if when my wife tells me off for putting stuff in the sink and not the dishwasher I could have this visceral reaction of oh she she's trying to get at me but actually if you just notice oh i'm having a little moment i was about to say something then but it's not going to be that helpful and then it calms down and then you approach it you either say yes i'll fill up the dishwasher or you know it makes sense yeah yeah so so yeah does that answer your question yeah yeah it does i just i'm i mean my mind is endlessly busy we have this conversation at home So myself, my youngest daughter, Kate, we feel like we have like a million thoughts a day.

18:55Pete Matthew: It's just continual stuff going on. And if there is no kind of stimuli, we're immediately in on ourselves and we're just kind of almost chatting to yourself. It's like a continual stream of consciousness. Whereas Joe and my eldest daughter, Ellie, they'd be like, we don't have any thoughts. Are we wrong? Is there something wrong with this sort of thing? but actually they leave far more peaceful sort of mental existence than Kate and I. So I guess I just was after how you've used it to make decisions. And actually the fact that the idea for the book kind of popped into your head and you took time obviously then to kind of observe that, let that thought sit with you a bit.

19:35Pete Matthew: And I thought, actually, no, this is something I need to sort of take hold of. That's very encouraging. I imagine just thinking about this for folks listening, you know if they're faced with say a big financial decision just creating the space to ponder on it as and let stuff wash over them maybe maybe grab some thoughts maybe think and maybe then the right the thing that they feel like they want to do comes i think that's a good thing as opposed to stimulus reaction knee jerk hardly any thought so i think it's ultimately if it comes down to creating space that's something i think we can all do but we've got to be intentional about it haven't we yeah of course we do and a common one that comes up which which i which i've written about as well is when people inherit money for example which is is quite a common one now with with the demographic shifts in the population is often the the conversation with a client is it's never really about the money.

20:37It's about things like doing the money justice because it was mum and dad's or having to do something good with it. And people can become quite burdened with that because it's an emotional need around the money rather than a logical, rational or a clear-headed one. So when somebody passes away and you're still feeling like that, it's okay to be sad about it and it's okay to be wrestling with it. It doesn't mean you have to make a decision right away with it. You can sit with it. You can observe where those ideas are coming from because one thing I can guarantee is when you leave money to somebody in a will, it doesn't come with the caveat that they must emotionally struggle once they receive it.

21:26Quite the opposite, hopefully, but yeah. It's supposed to aid whatever purpose that person has. And as a parent myself, that's all I will ever want for my kids. I don't want them to be burdened by thinking, I hope dad will be proud with the decisions I make with it. And that's just one example, but it comes up time and time and time again. Around debt, for example, that can trigger these preconceived ideas of debt either being good or bad or something like really binary. When it's not, it's just debt. It just is. It's what we make of it and the relationship we form with it that's important.

22:06Pete Matthew: Yeah, that's helpful. There's a brilliant quote in chapter 11 of the book. You say, with a freer, more rational mind, there is room for a healthy detachment of well-being from money. That's kind of a core tenet, isn't it? create the space and uh yeah just to give you that that little bit of detachment from what what seems to be an indetachable link between uh you know money and that's how what you thought you thought you're kind of you would be happier when i think wouldn't it when your economic situation was better so i'm guessing you you've seen that that that that detachment has helped you yeah and the the irony of it is that when your well-being is detached from it you you're free to use it for its intended purpose yeah and it can actually make you more money in the process because you're not burdened by it there's there's not the same emotional attachment and you can use it for the tool that it is and it's money's wonderful and at no point would I ever argue that it's not important.

23:15It's that it needs putting in its rightful place. And that is not an indicator or an influencer on how happy you are. They're two separate pursuits, but they both work very well together when they're both right.

23:30Pete Matthew: Sure. Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, the sort of book is brought in two halves and you kind of lay out your thesis in the first half, call on some great stuff. In fact, throughout the book, you call them some great stuff from, you know, the great sort of wisdom works, philosophers and sort of religious texts, all sorts of stuff. It's really cool. But it's very practical, the second half, very sort of like situations like inheritances. There's one, I think it's chapter 16. It's called Free Yourself from the Financial Media. It's right up my street. so you know with this sort of seemingly inexorable rise of uh finfluences much as i loathe that term you know i am one much as i don't want to be um and i think you know so much journalism is getting lazier it's so much more about clicks and algorithmics kind of um sort of bias these days how can we cut through that noise to sort of find balance in it i'd also be interested to know how you intake information but that's almost a secondary question how can we find balance in a very noisy world when it comes to media well the problem is the world is noisy the external world is very noisy and the only place we can anchor around that we have control of again i'm sorry to keep bringing it back, but it's our internal space because we will be thrown all this information constantly.

25:00And all social media and the growth of the internet and probably the growth of AI, all it does is just compound that level of stimulus that we're bombarded with. And I only think that's the only true way. but when you're working with or putting yourself in front of the news or the financial media there's a great phrase I forgot who said it it's totally slipped my mind but show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome yeah yeah honestly it's totally left my mind but that is a really helpful tool to use when somebody shares or you log in and see an article written by a publication. So why I think, and I'm not blowing smoke or blowing your trumpet, but your incentive structure is, as a businessman, owning a financial planning practice, is to improve the financial lives of your clients, isn't it?

26:09So the information you provide is aligned with that. Whereas some news outlets, or particularly the growth of social media, if the incentive is attention, your attention, then saying something polarizing or binary when actually there's no such thing as binary in the world of money. It's all extremely subjective. Then that incentive structure should speak to you on what it's trying to get you to do and how it's trying to get you to feel. And if you notice that it's making you feel that way, again we move back to sit with it let it pass and work out whether it's really

26:53Pete Matthew: true to you or if it isn't yeah that's a good shout do you have a i'm gonna hold you to this do you have a kind of preferred uh medium for in you know for keeping on top of things uh sort of financially speaking yes i try to not pay that much attention to political speculation yeah yeah very wise in this time and time again how many times have you said just wait and see what happens and it was bang on financial advice right yeah definitely so i will i tend to just look for quite black and white information and then decide myself how to interpret it and whether i should make any financial decisions off the back of it or not as the case may be so i just usually look at trading economics.com okay not because i'm a trader i advocate i don't trade whatsoever i've gone to those days but what it does provide is economic data in real time i don't know the and what political events have caused what to happen in the markets and then all that is is just black and white information and i can apply logic and reason to it rather than an emotional headline saying the world's falling apart we're all gonna die yeah exactly which is not good for anybody's well-being it's that trading economics yeah it's just really really useful global data and the headlines of the biggest financial news that day and then and then the data behind it and what it yeah and there's no like fervor or yeah big banger on it It's just this has happened and you can sit with it and work out what you're doing.

28:34Pete Matthew: That's cool. I'm a big Financial Times fan. I've been for decades now. I love its kind of glorious coldness.

28:47Pete Matthew: It's very much not hysterical ever. It's just very kind of sort of, you know, the world is going to hell in a handcart and here's what it means for your portfolio.

29:00Pete Matthew: obviously hyperbolic but do you know what i mean i i am a long time ft subscriber and i just i find it to be joyously unemotional yeah i enjoy the ft for similar reasons so chapter 18 you talk about risk and i think honestly man i think in our job if there's one subject that kind of it drives me nuts in in the fact particularly the fact that i don't think our regulator understands risk in any form i could not agree more um and and yet you know we have to jump to various hoops to show that we've talked about risk to clients but there's a brilliant quote um in chapter 18 you say often we approach risk taking through emotion rather than rationality and that can lead to unhelpful action or indeed unhelpful inaction it's like yeah exactly and yet I mean, risk, even the word immediately can evoke a sort of visceral reaction.

29:55Pete Matthew: Oh, I don't want to take any risk. The number of people who come to me on a new inquiry call, one of the first things they said to me is, well, we're not really risk takers. It's like you just don't understand risk then, you know, so often the case. So how can we improve, you know, for folks listening to this, how can they improve how they think about risk? You know, and is there anything that we as the industry can do to make it better? I just think you need a more well-rounded either conversation or reflection on what risk is and the ones you're exposed to by doing something and by not doing something.

30:32There's no such thing as whether you take risk or not. You are always taking risk. There's no absence of risk in any decision you make in life in general and in the universe at large, if we really want to go there. Yeah, sure. But uncertainty is the only certainty that we have. So taking our time to understand that intellectually is extremely helpful. And also to pass through what risks we're okay with and what risks we're not. Because the regulatory framework, you're absolutely right, is there's nothing to help that. Because we have to put bells and whistles all over any recommendation we make to anybody, saying your capital is at risk, you could lose money, etc.

31:16And for some people, that would just put them off. But a bank who is advertising a 1 % interest rate account for a customer doesn't have to say you are guaranteed to lose money to inflation year on year on year.

31:32Pete Matthew: No. So the standards of the risk of inaction and the regulatory standards on risk of action are misaligned completely. because there doesn't seem to be much accountability if you don't do anything on any of the actors in the space. Yeah, fair enough. So I think the industry, if you like, could do a lot more in that respect. But I think we just need to do as much as we can. Your platform will be very good for this in educating people on how significant the risks could be if you're not doing anything. Yeah, right. but you need to avoid that preconceived thinking of what risk is you you need to move past that to be able to interact with all the risks that you're exposed to in that true of a lot of things though we need to move past our preconceptions the sort of the thinking that's ingrained in us by our upbringing by our sort of lived experience today i think it's a rare skill to intentionally challenge your own thinking and that just i mean not only is our own thinking reinforced by the algorithms and the sort of stuff that gets fed to us so it becomes an echo chamber you really have got to choose to step outside of that and say and almost search for the opposing point of view yeah it's like if i'm convinced that passive investing for example is the way that most people should do it um you know then i need to search for real good apologetics for active investment you know and even if all that does is it further cements my my my belief my current belief but gives me better grounding for it rather than just well it just is or whether that's just what i thought i honestly i think the world will be a much better place if we talk critical thinking in school and college and encourage people to be active in their thought process as opposed to just passive consumers and just take whatever is spoon fed to them but i will get off my soap box yeah i agree with you pete i think we need to it's really helpful understanding an argument you don't like yeah even if you still don't like it afterwards but it's okay to understand it and pursue the understanding of it but that's when you start applying logic and reason to your financial decisions rather than emotion and that's where the good stuff comes from yeah for sure quite agree i'm interested man as a financial planner you've been doing this job how long now uh i've been in advisory capacity for eight years before that so a decade yeah so how has your experience through everything that you've walked through and your sort of now sort of well-developed understanding of the mind and how it works around money.

34:36Pete Matthew: How is that changing how you're doing business and how you're dealing with your clients? Well, some clients think I've turned into a hippie. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, one bloke texts me, I love him to it. He says, I love you to bits, Adam, but when did you become such a hippie? Love it. Absolutely love it. I know where we're at. You don't want to go down that road. That's fine. And then some have found that the coaching element, you've got to be careful because I'm not a psychologist. I've just spent a lot of time working in that space recently. And ultimately, clients don't actually pay me to do that part of it.

35:14But I think that you can use these concepts to coach your clients and individuals can use it to coach themselves. just to think a little bit more deeply about what it is they're trying to achieve i'm sure you've come across this where you've asked a client what the goals and objectives are and you sat there really is that really what they are and if you dig a little bit deeper sometimes it just completely changes yeah it's like now that's true to you yeah so i think it just helps you ask the why

35:49Pete Matthew: question a little bit more yeah yeah i'd agree with that i think experience as well is something i kind of try and get across to my you know younger advisors that that work for me is that experience gives you the kind of uh authority to also challenge clients quite directly sometimes yeah um and rather just sort of accept the sort of customers always right nonsense but actually just say, actually, I fundamentally need to challenge that because what you've just said to me, not only do I believe to be incorrect, I think it's going to hold you back massively. So let's dig into that. And I see the look of fear on my advisor's faces sometimes when I talk to them about that and think, what, I've got to say what now to a client?

36:33Pete Matthew: So, well, if you believe something strongly and they come at you with something which you think is going to be detrimental to them, you need to challenge it. It's not about imposing what you believe on them because they may believe it for very strong reasons but i think it's important to challenge and a client who isn't open to challenge is expecting us really just to order take and that's not a healthy advisory relationship i said people are paying us to advise them exactly ultimately that's the contract isn't it for sure and i tell my team all the time you know you're not there to be yes men and yes women yeah you are you are there to to provide your advice and if it means challenging them then it's absolutely the right thing to do but we can be avoidant of difficult conversations if we're scared of again the visceral emotional experience that it will create but if we're quite anchored in ourselves and if the client is and you are then you can have a challenging conversation without it becoming personal yeah quite yeah yeah I think when you get to that point, that's where the mutually beneficial and the symbiosis becomes really quite profound.

37:43Pete Matthew: Yeah, the massive deepening of the relationship. Yeah, for sure. So what's the one message that you want people to take from the book, man? I want people to understand that their well-being and their finances are both very worthy pursuits, but they're separate. And they both deserve attention in different ways. But when they are both worked on, the two marry up together in a really beautiful way. Nice. I like that. Worked on together, but they are separate. Yeah. Yeah, no, I like that. For me, it was very much, I guess the same. that separation is necessary and needs to be intentional and you know that real sort of taking the time to uh sort of draw back a little bit and creating space for you to feel and to think um is something that i've waxed and waned with uh you know over the years but this was a real call to me to sort of pick that up again i had some big decisions coming up some fairly sort of existential uh what do i do with the future and companies and all that sort of stuff coming up and it's really good to create the space and so it's like i need to go out for a walk not put anything in my ears and just let the thoughts come from all that sort of stuff so which is how i tend to sort of create that space well i i said pete when i set out to write this book i don't as long as one person reaches out to me and says that it's made them do that then i would i would deem it an enormous success and you've just yeah yeah no absolutely so it's good good you don't actually need to publish it now you can just your work is done we might as well give it a go well why not yeah for sure so this will either not 100 sure this will i will do this in the in the top and tailback this will either go out like just before the book comes out so people need to go and get and pre-order it so that it arrives when it's uh when it's out it's coming out 28th of july 2026 or it'll be like the day after in which case folks just need to go out and buy it uh where can people find out about more and what you're about you and what you're up to man well there's the there's the book obviously your money and your mind uh out on the 28th of july there it is the yellow one um i also have a weekly sub stack that i newsletter that i send out on a friday which is just a bit of mindfulness and money reflections nothing too deep uh and it's called mindful money so you can search on substack for that and um it's free to subscribe so feel free to cool thanks for that we'll make sure there's a link to that in the show notes mate i think you did great work with this book i'm excited for you i mean getting your first book out is a very cool thing uh i remember it well and uh so i enjoy that when it happens and a few weeks after we're recording this but brilliant work man so highly recommended your money in your mind by adam cochran thank you for joining me adam thank you so much pete okay hope you enjoyed that Honestly, I sometimes think it must seem to you like I gush about every book whose author I bring on to the show.

40:56Pete Matthew: But that's because I'm actually really picky about who gets to speak to you. I only have the good ones on. So my thanks again to Adam for his time. Congrats again, mate, on the book, which is released the day before this episode comes out, July 28th, 2026. So go and get a copy. Honestly, you'll be glad you did. It's really easy to read. He's got a beautiful writing style, has Adam. Chapters are very succinct, so you can dip in and out very quick. It's really, really helpful. I've really enjoyed it. So you can get it, obviously, at all good booksellers. That's Your Money and Your Mind by Adam Cochran, published by Harriman House, my own author, my own publisher, rather.

41:35Pete Matthew: So we'll put some links to the book and to Adam's sub-stack in the show notes. That's meaningfulmoney.tv slash session632. Hope you enjoyed it, folks. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you next time.

41:52We'll be right back.