Fellas Go Global, Guardian Pivots, Paddington Sues

0:28Welcome to the Media Club, I'm your host Matt Deegan. media quiz we find out why pannington bear might be going to court that's all coming up in this edition of the media club come on in uh hello welcome to the show hi nice to see you both and you uh so uh rihanna who would you like to add to our club roles this week well you've already mentioned i think the celebrity traitors all have to go in um all the talent all of just everybody who came up with this brilliant idea um it just feels like everybody is talking about this um Everybody was gathered around. My WhatsApp groups were all gathered around texting.

1:03I sadly was not because I was watching the new Rian Johnson film at the London Film Festival. So I missed it live. But it does feel like a very we have been building up to this for so many months. People are dying to see what Stephen Fry on Celebrity Traitors looks like. And now we know. Have you been watching, Jim? I have. And it is. I was a bit worried it wouldn't live up to expectations. but I think the incredible thing is they clearly could pick whoever they wanted to go on and it wasn't one of those celebrity shows where you're left looking up their Wikipedia to work out who they are. Yes, when we're recording now, I've only seen one episode, so will Alan Carr melt down before episode three, probably?

1:44I really hope so. I tell you what, though, I do love Kat Burns on this because she is maybe a bit more of a blank slate. She's not a household name in the same way that some of the others are. She's not a quote-unquote national treasure, which keeps coming up time and again. And so actually, that feels like a little bit more like the normal traitors. And I really like that aspect. Yes, they picked a good three, I think. I agree. And seven million viewers for the first night, which is like when people watch TV together. Yeah, so it's, I think, a million up on regular traitors, about 46 share of the audience.

2:16I mean, they're going to be pleased. They're going to be pleased with that. They're going to be thrilled. And Jim, who would you like to add to our club roles this week? probably against my professional reputation I'm going to suggest a duo who hosts a podcast called Screen Rot who are called Jacob Hawley and Jake Farrell who I don't want to be professionally associated with half of what goes on it but it is genius at unpicking the odd characters of viral British internet and understanding the less sexy world of creators and content production in this country and it's basically a deranged listen and for the last year it's about the only thing that helps you make sense of where the british internet is right now so are they explaining memes i mean it's quite a lot to take in but yeah i mean it's more going this character that pops up in your feed the whole time why what what does it represent um and what's going on and so it's unpacking that and also they've built a business off the back of it as well and now they're selling out venues sort of taking this because it is, it's basically, this is what people are wasting their lives watching now, the same sort of gap in the market that they'd used to sit watching E4 or whatever.

3:24They're now just mindlessly scrolling and going, oh, who's that bloke who's like doing the funny thing? And they don't even know who it is because it's just served to you by algorithm. So it's unpacking that. How often do they introduce you to someone? Like, is it, are you always being introduced by them? Or do you always know who they are talking about? It's about half and half. I'd flick through the listings of their back episodes and choose someone you've heard of and then see what they make of it. Well, we will put a link in the show notes to that as well. Okay, the last year at The Guardian has been defined by offloading The Observer, but now its editor, Kath Viner, has announced a new framework for the news outlet.

4:00Jim, 10 years in charge, you used to be your boss. The paper makes what I think you could describe as a sustainable loss. I had not expected to having to be judged my former boss who hired me uh when i came on this show what's her new plan uh but the new plan is is a big investment with backing from the scott trust who are the the sort of trust fund that own the guardian um to put a big slug of money i think tens of millions into video hiring up people to make video uh and all basically recognizing the the fact that uh people aren't reading as much what uh and if you aren't in the spaces that they are spending their time which is increasingly short form video and other forms of video um then you're not necessarily in the game i mean across the board i come from a sort of new everyone i talk to who works at mainstream outlets say we're just feeling that's just not as many people reading that just news in just like i saw a heartbeat just sort of just a vague sense that this is on a downward trend just words as a way of doing things i run london centric it's a largely word-based publication this is slightly terrifying and i like words i think they're great i think you can see a whole load of information really quickly but it's just clear that mass audience is moving to video and that and i think a lot of outlets have a sort of folk memory of the 2015 pivot to video yes it always gets brought up as like oh we tried to do that and then facebook pulled the rug uh and and everyone gets the narrative on that wrong which is the idea that facebook inflated the views in in certain ways that they were later found out for with ads it all gets a bit messy but the folk memory in a lot of news media organizations is oh we tried video and it didn't work um and now belatedly they're going oh hang on it is working for everyone we better we better try and work out how we can do it first but the big challenge for the guardian for anyone doing it that's an institution is the guardian's got so many people who come to it directly there's so few sites that people go to directly but people go to that home page and they read that home page and then if you do a lot of video you're relying a lot of the time on the algorithms so a how do you ensure you actually you get your stuff to an audience because there's so many youtube channels that were launched by legacy outlets that just have no viewers borderline hundreds it's always embarrassing especially when you know the budget involved um and then secondly people tend to follow individuals so how do you get them to care about the guardians take and not i don't know their poland pippa creera or one of their star sports writers or how do you avoid it becoming a thing all about the person maybe you embrace that but then can you give them a revenue share maybe you can maybe you can't there's all sorts of tricky things like that obviously they they have a sort of soft paywall a lot of encouragement that banner saying please give us money seems to get bigger and bigger every time i visit especially on your phone it gets higher and higher up the screen it does um uh is that sustainable can they can they still push on with saying hey we are predominantly a free operation uh well that that's clearly what they've stated and what they're able to do they've also got a pretty big endowment uh in the background so they can take risks and and run things as other outlets cannot um so they can they can afford to invest uh the trick is can you allow people to sort of do the experimentation that's required to get this right uh i mean when i was the guardians media ed uh i covered the wag of the christy trial that was great fun and without knowing what i was doing as a very aging millennial i did a load of tiktoks they went really well but there wasn't really any sign-off process or anything or no one really knew what I think it was on your channels yeah and I think after about a week uh someone upstairs noticed I was doing them and was like oh that seems to be doing well but the the it's quite hard because if you'd actually planned that out I'm not sure that what I'd have produced with a proper production team would have been more successful uh Rihanna you spend most of your time watching pro content uh on the screen it's even with money it's quite hard to create stuff that's engaging that people want to watch.

8:00Yeah, anything that cuts through people will still have that really boring conversation about like, there's just so much, there's just too much. I don't know where to find. And increasingly people seem to be going back to comfort shows, things that they know and love rather than taking risks on new shows. And I don't know if that's more about the fact that companies like Netflix are always cancelling and so they're worried about subscribing to a show and staying with it because they think it all just immediately cancelled what's the point so there is there is this constant push and pull of what's cutting through i think personally it's that classic thing of oh when the world is you know burning everyone turns to escapism and comedy you know that's not groundbreaking um but it does feel like the the kind of really big tv shows that we've been watching you know like the white lotus for example um or even ted lasso which i think personally is really quite naff and has absolutely run oh thank goodness someone else who sees the truth on ted lasso but it's uh but it's it is so it is supposed to be like that warm hug of a show and people are i don't know they're they're becoming also thinking about things like taskmaster and last one laughing you know we want the comedy we want the jokes we want um we want to smile we don't want to be living in a world where um i don't know like these hardened police detectives are chasing down criminals it feels like we've come slightly out of that now because i was thinking mayor of east town right that came out a few years ago kate winslet it was incredible everybody who'd seen it was talking about it everyone loved it um they came back the same creators with a new show called task with mark ruffalo i feel like nobody has seen that nobody is talking about it it looks incredibly bleak and that's why yes and nobody is quite in that headspace anymore they want the because everything else is crap.

9:46Well, sticking to video, the media company behind Capital and LBC Global have bought one of the biggest video podcasting success stories in the UK, the Fellas Studios. Rihanna, are you a Fellas fan? Have you been consuming much Fellas content? I'm way too old to be looking at anything particularly on the Fellas. So explain what it is to people that maybe aren't sure. So it's very much a company that's targeted towards Gen Z, which I am safely out of, as you say. I've got no idea. And do you know what really strikes me when I look at the thumbnails of this studio is that they all look like they've been fake created for some sort of TV show just to go on in the background.

10:29It doesn't look quite real. But they basically created their own studios in this warehouse. each one has a like a distinct look for each podcast it looks really it looks really really good um it's a very smart way of doing it it's you know it's all about the branding you can just tell immediately which one it is just from looking at the colors and you know there's like saving grace the fellas themselves and um so global studios have taken this over which is really interesting because they obviously probably best known for doing the news agents for example they are a very established grown-up kind of brand it feels like such an interesting mesh of i don't want to say old and young but you know maybe something more professional and young i think there i think it might be a good fit because i think it will they'll take um some of the the youthfulness and maybe some of the more experimental side of the fellas and they'll but also mesh it with a little bit more understanding of podcasts.

11:36Professionalism. Professionalism. And all the boring stuff. Exactly, exactly. They will bring the boring stuff. But hopefully that will just kind of elevate both. Jim, Global is a top-down organisation. I think it would be the polite way of describing them. The fellas... Will it integrate well into that business? Or are they just going to leave it alone and do its own thing? I feel that we sort of owe listeners and viewers a bit what you're saying is he's privately owned largely controlled by Ashley Tabor King at the top and therefore what comes from the top down goes he gets to make a lot of decisions and so if they choose to move into this market and they want to buy up a leading company in that space they get on with it and do it I haven't got any idea what it's like to work for Global how they'd integrate but all i'll say is i've sort of what i worked at sort of small startups that became big startups and then um have crashed back down to earth and uh i probably just salute whoever owns them for getting out and getting a nice payday at this moment in time when the market's very hot i mean we don't know how much they paid no it wasn't announced and global's privately held as you said so they'd have to announce it i mean when i saw i thought great time to to get out or to or to get some money in or people to back your ideas and you have a few quit in the bank for the for the the three founders who set it up yeah good on them um and i um and you see a lot of places that don't know when to sell out and hang on too long thinking they've invented the next big thing and then a few years down the line are not in the not in the game anymore uh ryan i thought it's interesting that there are many people who are doing what the fellows are doing and when you look at some of the other big successes the sort of sonys of the world or even goal hanger, no one's as vibrant or kind of YouTube-y.

13:28And a lot of that Gen Z audience obviously have come from YouTube into podcasting rather than from audio into podcasting. Do you think everyone else is missing a trick? Yeah, I think they probably are. I think everybody is desperate to tap into that. Did I say Gen Z earlier? I'm going to get told off for doing that. To the Gen Z. Always get told off for that. I think everybody is trying to tap into that and they have been successful because they are the people, they are creating for themselves, for their own audiences. I mean, do you remember when Radio 1 brought in YouTubers to try and make that a thing?

13:59And it was not successful because it was them trying to be down with the kids. Yeah, so sort of stapling them on. Yes, exactly. And it didn't work because it was coming from a different format. It didn't really make sense. But there is such a crossover now between podcasts, YouTube, you know, especially for that generation, it's all essentially the same. Everything is visualised. The fact that they have these studios specifically branded for each podcast, I think says a lot. But also it reminded me, I don't know if you guys have watched Swiped about the creation of Tinder and Bumble starring Lily James.

14:34And it is the whole idea of what that looked like, that early startup and the kind of the youthful vibrance of it actually then becoming sort of fairly toxic quite quickly, like burning too bright too quickly. I wonder if Global Studios is going to have to how much they're going to have to bring them down to earth to make it sustainable The benefits of having a proper HR department that might help I won't tell all the stories about BuzzFeed 2014 because yeah being there done that Okay finally just before the break if you're a digital publisher tired of uploading the same episode to lots of different places Stephen Bartlett oddly may have the answer I don't know if you saw this this is flight cast um uh have you have you watched the promo video for what he's trying to do did you understand it oh god he's so smug isn't he um i did watch it and i didn't really understand how it was massively different from all of the others it's apart from that that's why you're not a ceo yeah i mean fair absolutely fair he's doing something right it is the perennial kind of digital content problem of you've got to get all this stuff to all different places podcasting is splintered video on spotify videos youtube audio they built something that looks really nice and is a great cms for for content do you think they can build a big digital business on it uh i don't know about that what i do know is as someone who's running their own tiny startup uh doing local news largely through substack um it's a pain everything's a pain you finish doing the actual content and then five hours later you can finally get it out and that's the bit that people don't clock that you waste all your time doing so yeah i'm getting to the point where if anyone can relieve any of that then uh then then uh yeah sign you up sign me up i'm not quite sure what to support it if you are interested check out flight cast uh okay when we return uh we're going to be talking about whether politicians are on twitter too much i'll see you in a sec

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17:23Fair warning though, you might not want to leave. The chairs are really comfortable. Use the code MEDIACLUB. That's all one word, MEDIACLUB, to get your 25 % off at podshopstudios.co.uk. Hello, MEDIACLUB listeners. Patrick here from Podcast Discovery, the podcast marketing company, where this week we've been thinking about TV. Podcasting might have unrivaled intimacy, but TV boasts massive mainstream reach. Five minutes on Lorraine or Good Morning Britain can do wonders as part of a holistic marketing plan. While if you make the most of it with socials and podcast content, a long run on Strictly or Celebrity Traders can be completely transformative.

18:03To find out what we can do for your show, head to podcastdiscovery.com. That's podcastdiscovery.com. Welcome back. Here's what we've been talking about in the club this week. Daniel Eck, the founder of Spotify, is stepping down at the end of the year. He'll be replaced by a joint CEO role headed by the current president of the business. But what of air quality is off to spend more time with his drones. Forbes reports that he has a major investment in Helsing, the military company behind AI in future war hardware. Let's hope there's not an unwrapped at the end of the year. Meanwhile, in using tech for good, tickets are on sale for Radio TechCon.

18:43And one session caught our eye, a commercial pilot, to explain what the broadcast industry can learn from high-pressure environments from aviation. Radio TechCon tickets are available now. And after the tragic events at a synagogue in Manchester last week, Press Gazette has been looking into how Google ranked breaking news on the day, with global news brands served above the Manchester Evening News, who had eight reporters on the scene. Links to all of our stories are available on our sub-stack at themediaclub.com. If you sign up and it is free, you also get a copy of Briefed, which is where we do a summary of all of the media podcasts looking at TV, audio, journalism, marketing and Hollywood.

19:24Sign up at TheMediaClub.com. Jim and Rihanna are still with me. Hello both. Jim, I don't know how much you saw this article about SEO. Are we still in an SEO world? Would you be concerned if you're the Manchester Evening News? Yeah, I mean, it's slightly odd to be talking about in the context of the horrible events that happened up in Manchester about what, you know, the SEO ranking. But the point is, essentially, if you're wanting to learn about what had gone on in North Manchester, then you would probably naturally, you know, either in the old days, you'd have gone directly to a news source, or a lot of people would Google it.

20:00And the Manchester Evening News's complaint was, well, we put loads of reporters on the scene, our stories weren't appearing at the top of Google. and so slightly to put away the topic to the side there's two things there i think one is it's a problem that all news outlets are relying on google and that feels just like how are you you know how are you supposed to establish yourself and justify and earn money to pay for eight reporters on the scene when you're basically hoping for drive-by clicks from an algorithm that happens to highlight yours over someone else's i totally get why they don't anything to the publishers do they uh no and and increasingly you know the ai summary will just replace it for a lot of people um and secondly you know some of these sites do get downrated because they're hard to load they're covered in ads uh and that people would prefer maybe a really clean bbc news version now if there's a way of doing a sort of clean quick loading version of local news uh that's the area that i operate in now i don't do much live news i don't do much reactive on the scene reporting to things so it's a very different product that i'm doing for london but i both have sympathy but also think that the fundamentally the problem is all local news sites if they're trying to do click-based uh targeting are going to be in trouble in the long run and this isn't a model and secondly the fact that all distribution relies on global tech for local news is clearly never going to work in their favor so it's it's it's a mess but i think playing the ref on this one is avoiding the fact that the whole model isn't really working for a lot of local news.

21:38Well speaking of Manchester I think you were up there this week. Were you at all of the political meeting conferences? I'm a former political reporter so even though I'm now doing local news I still like to check in because it's one of the best places to see all your political contacts in one go and find out what the parties are up to so I was doing pieces on who's going to be the next London mayoral candidate for London centric for both the Tories and Labour. So those are online now but But the thing that struck me as someone who built their career to a degree on Twitter and built up a load of followers on Twitter and got so much work on from Twitter, met half their friends and probably my partner on Twitter, is that it's now such a cesspit.

22:18It's now you I open it now and it's just a combination of Tommy Robinson, violent videos and people grifting for Bitcoin. and yet in the middle of this political journalists and politicians are just sort of tweeting through as if nothing happened and you either see them being massively radicalised by it because they're just consuming this stuff all day long and Elon Musk is openly tipping the algorithm to favour some stuff when I talk to people they say two things the politicians say yeah we hate it but the political journalists are all still on there and the political journalists say well we hate it they don't really because it's still got the load of followers on there we hate it but um the politicians are on there so we have to see the stuff and the problem is we've sort of got a media ecosystem that still uses twitter as the what do the public think about a topic thing even though its politics are so wildly away from where the average britain now is uh and i think that's a real democratic crisis point and i i know it sounds a bit dramatic to say that about one increasingly niche social media network but that really really scares me We see in the US as well, I think, particularly over the shutdown, the radicalization piece.

23:29I think a lot of politicians, like a lot of normal people, have been radicalized by what they see in social media, which doesn't really reflect the truth or the views of most people. Yeah. And I mean, it was always the case on Twitter and Twitter used to have probably a left liberal bias and that influenced things in a different way. And the idea that there is even one feed is an odd idea. but fundamentally we know what we're dealing with in elon musk he is tipping it his he is appearing at uh far-right rallies in the uk calling for the overthrow of the government um and therefore i just find it strange that that is still the de facto place that the government he wants to overthrow will put out its its announcements to the media uh ryan i thought when traitors was on um the other night it i was sad that it wasn't 10 years ago when you would hop on i know and have that and see what everyone was talking about.

24:20There were two posts. I think Scott Bryan, he comes on the show. He's there, of course. Bless God. I know. He's always doing the most. I miss the campfire that was social media. That's the same across a lot of TV film criticism in that people haven't got a home to talk about this stuff. Yeah, and I think that's why it's coming off social media a bit more and you're moving on to your kind of personal WhatsApp groups or DMs or, yeah, I think especially I mean, I will say I'm not on TikTok so I don't know what's going on. over i don't know what's going on over there but i think that feels like a real loss because i i miss talking to all those people all of my my journalism friends i used to have on twitter i mean i've been completely locked out of twitter now um i've got no idea what's going on uh but yeah i think that i think because it's because we're just looking at images we're not getting those same conversations we're not getting like the hot takes and the fun it's just it's just become so memified and we're not i feel like the depth of conversation around tv even in those kind of those small um slightly you know whatever it was how many characters great gags but yeah like people we're missing out on on though on that sort of analysis and i i genuinely am really quite sad about it because it's a lot of fun yeah i i mean i did a test where i put my one year of london-centric posts on all of the text platforms some threads to uh twitter and everything in between and the top performer for actually driving people to read it was was linkedin which is gross and weird and horrific but apparently there's now that's now like where an active community reading stuff is so all my mates are on linkedin what is going on i don't understand it it's so strange but it does seem that relatively normal people relatively are actually posting there and engaging is the linkedin thing that uh particularly sort of our age that maybe grew up on facebook and twitter it sort of replicates what that was um you know it's text-based sometimes with images and uh it's a bit more grown up and it's so overly professional and straight laced and you know where's like the the the joy and the silliness and that's not on linkedin it's not but but but but i think i also have been surprised by how many sort of early 20s people trying to get jobs in me are actively posting away on it so yeah maybe maybe maybe the kids are on linkedin and and youtube well the thing might work i think that's quite interesting i think a lot of media job sort of came from social media.

26:45You talked there about making connections early in your career. It's a shame that's gone. Do you still get work from your social posts? I literally, somebody offered me a job the other day because of something that I had on my Twitter bio and I was like, I can't even see that anymore but that's great that you found me through that but I think that feels like a very rare thing now to be honest. It is more on Instagram if I'm getting work. I guess the seo of the social networks is so good there's still value that end a little bit too yeah but every everything it's just i mean this is the story of every episode that you you do at the moment right is that everything that 10 years ago was still just about manageable that ever could keep across all of the main platforms and you could have a vague idea what some sort of national conversation was now it's just like literally no idea and and trying to make sense of that is the biggest challenge in media which is why people need to listen to your favorite podcast no this one this one this one okay okay just enough time for the audio network media quiz

27:48let's see how much attention our guests have been paying to the media news this week and the quiz is entitled the perfect heist in honor of rihanna our movie critic guest we've reworked three classics of the crime genre into three media stories of the week All you need to do is decipher the story from the movie script. And once again, Alex at Audio Network has worked on Matt's terrible, terrible brief and creates a playlist of music to soundtrack today's game. Okay, best of three. So buzz in with your names if you know the answer. So Rihanna, you will say. Rihanna. Jim will say. Jim. Let's play.

28:29Yours is quicker. It's the first letter that counts. It doesn't work like that. Let's play The Perfect Heist.

28:40OK, what's the story hidden in this lock stock style heist movie? OK, gruff cockney accent, please. OK, here's the job. We're going after the bear. Rihanna. Oh. I can't say my name quickly. To be fair, you did mention this at the top of the show and it's about Paddington suing Paddington. Yes, this is Studio Canal suing Avalon after a spitting image depiction of Paddington Bear. I would urge everybody to go and have a look at this spitting image of Paddington Bear. Have anyone actually seen it before this court case? Absolutely not. I literally didn't know this existed until I saw this court case.

29:22It's a Streisand effect. Yeah, it's hilarious. And it's such a horrific, so horrific, which is why it's so funny. It's good. It's a ridiculous story because they have this really foul-mouthed bear saying all sorts of horrible things on a podcast. With a South American accent because obviously he's from Peru. Yes, because he's from Peru. He doesn't sound like Ben Whishaw. And they are furious about it. And they're for different audiences. It's satire. I think this is a really nonsensical thing to be doing. Obviously, it's a parody. They'll probably be okay, won't they? I don't know. No, there's another Paddington case up today as well where they're suing a gift shop provider in London.

30:01So I thought it was going to be that. So clearly whoever's doing Studio Canal's legal department is doing pretty well at the moment. Maybe it's like a sort of ambulance chasing. It's paid for by case by case. OK, let's get back to another heist movie. This one's in a sort of godfather vein. Just tell me what the story is. We're going to shake down a guy and his little lady friend. you know the mark. He was a big deal. First in the succession line. I kind of really wanted you to run and run. Thank God. I was enjoying that. So this is about the miniature wife. Yes. This is Elizabeth Banks and Matthew McFadden.

30:46And it's just been bought, even before it went to MIPCOM actually, it's just been bought by Sky and Now TV. Again, comedy. People want a bit of comedy now. Yeah, so it's about this, like, Elizabeth Banks gets shrunk down. Literally, she is a miniature wife and how that plays out with him as a normal sized man. Which, I don't know, did you see the spin-off? Was it Gen V, the boys spin-off? Oh, yes. Where there is a shrinking girl. Yeah. It's pretty, I mean, I don't think it'll be that dark. Do you think, isn't it just how you shrunk the kids? Yeah, with more marriage issues. Yeah. Right. one more heist plot to look over.

31:26Imagine a team of illusionists planning to rob something and I'm the guy from the social network or something. Right, here we go. We'll need a distraction. Wires? Can you magic up a yacht? A tropical island? Maybe a glamorous woman out of thin air. Something that keeps their attention between all the musical fireworks. Come on, Jim. I can't. So music.

31:56Wires, AI... Oh my god, yeah. You've got to say your name if you don't. Brianna. Going three for three. This is the most depressing thing I've ever heard. Well, it is because as somebody who works in this field, AI presenters. They're just going to get AI presenters. How do you know he's not one already? Aimed at, again, Gen Z, I think. Yes, AI-generated virtual TV presenters will host on a new TV music channel called Roxy. It sort of sounds like what you'd invent if you had AI in 2005. This reminds me of sort of a thing, you know, when like every logo would have like an at in the middle of it.

32:36And it was like, we've now got computer generated people and they'd look like a sort of PS1 game or something. Yeah, it's like an avatar, right? So probably there will be end up being something like this that becomes normalized. But this, whatever we're seeing now is basically just PR, right? It's basically just a bit of a quirky thing that some exec thinks is buzzy. Yeah, obviously it's got some coverage here. It's a fast channel, so it's not like a proper channel. Don't at me. People still watch the music TV? Oh, yeah, but I don't know if the younger generation are. It feels like our generation might still just stick it on in the background.

33:13That seems to be a thing. And I don't think they want to be watching MTV, you know, 90s, 80s classics. rebuild Ray Cokes in an AI form and just put him on MTV. I mean, to be honest, the level of Z-list celebrities that they sometimes have introducing those. It's probably cheaper just to get some of these guys out of retirement. Just give them 50 quid and say that it's nice that someone still has your number. Well, congratulations, Rihanna. You're our winner today. Runaway winner. As a prize, you can see if someone can AI me so I don't have to be here every week. That's great. Perfect. Also, my thanks to you, Jim.

33:49as well. Thanks to Alex at Audio Network for supplying the music. Remember, if you'd like some music for your next production, head over to audionetwork.com So Jim, where can people keep up with your and London Centric's work? Just stick London Centric into your favourite search engine. Probably don't check out on Twitter because I haven't updated it in a very long time. And Rihanna, where people can see you at the moment? You can listen to me every Friday morning with Nick Grimshaw on BBC6 Music or find me on Instagram at Rhianna Dillon and again no other socials because I have them. And a lot of London Film Festival stuff.

34:24Yeah, I'm doing a few panels so yeah, look out for me. I'm actually doing one about the art of interviewing. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. Maybe I'll come along and find out. You don't need to go. You're an expert. That's very kind. That's very kind. And thank you for listening and watching as well. My name is Matt Deegan. The producer is Matt Hill. It was a Rethink Audio production with video support from Podcast Discovery. We'll see you next week. .