Is The BBC Heading For Disaster?

0:01Hello and welcome to the Media Club. I'm your host Matt Deegan. In the club today is the BBC heading for disaster. as multiple voices speak up for big changes to the next 10-year plan. We ask if it's even possible for the corporation to change a course. Broadcast consultant Paul Robinson weighs the arguments for us. Also on the show, Fool Me Once, shame on you. The Times reflects on being tricked for the second time in a month. Journalist and academic Jane Martinson tells us more. All that, plus Canada leaks the traitors finale. And in the Audio Network Media Quiz, we give three more stories aglow.

0:36That's all coming up in this edition of the Media Club. Come on in.

0:46Hello to you both. Hi, Ryan. Nice to see you again. Who's in the club today? Why, it's Guardian columnist Jane Martinson. You also teach at City University and are now a member of the Scott Trust as well. But who is your plus one to the club this week? Oh, I've got to go for, say I'm obsessed, as most of the nation is, with celebrity traitors. And it's been a difficult decision. So I was like, you know, it's Claudia, obviously McQueen. But it's got to be Alan Carr with this one because they have been so hopeless. But he has sort of just become a bit of a national treasure. He has played it so well.

1:23The first episode after he knifed his best friend in the bag, I thought that's it for Alan Carr. And in fact, somehow he's managed to come out of it even more esteemed and almost loved than he was at the beginning. We were recording this just before the finale, so we don't know. And if you haven't watched it yet, don't worry, there won't be any spoilers here. We've sort of put on the show, they've really managed to balance it right and it's a little bit dangerous for the celebrities to go on. There's a lot of airtime to fill. You never quite know what the editor will snip in or leave out. I found it so fascinating this time because there's been lots written about, which I obviously spent no time at all when I'm meant to be at work scrolling through endless theories.

2:06But the whole thing about sort of unconscious bias and how normally people can, you know, if you're an actor, you don't say you're an actor, whereas celebrity version, everyone knows who they are and also some of them know each other. But it's been actually excruciating to watch that play out because there's a lot of sorts of, you know, people saying, Stephen Fry, you're the cleverest man I know. And, of course, David, who is a fellow fabulous and a very amazing TV documentarian. They've been hopeless, absolutely hopeless. Fabulously clever and amazing people. But it's just been so brilliant to watch.

2:43I've just loved it. Paul, it's sort of powerful, executed well. Yeah, and when it started, I wasn't really into it. And I thought, do you know what? The thing about this is I prefer the non-celebrities because there's more disclosure. You get to know more about the people. But they lie more. That's true. But actually, as it went on, I came to love it. And you're right, the Jonathan Ross was particularly good, I thought. I thought he just took hold of the situation, didn't he? But the Stephen Fry thing, he didn't say anything terribly clever, actually. No, he kept getting it wrong. He kept getting it wrong.

3:12All the clues happen and they get around the round table. They forget all the evidence and just talk and get it wrong every time. It's been excruciating. Well, it's funny how some people didn't have that much personality. I think it did expose those who were, you know, shy. let's put it that way and those who were not really Sean Alan Carr I do agree absolutely the star of everything and I've never been a huge Alan Carr fan I have completely changed my mind although it's funny because Kat Burns who I think came into it she is she talks about being quite awkward socially but she's actually played blinder she has because she's managed to say I am awkward I'm not like you and that's why I'm and to sort of cut through as an emerging celebrity to hold her own in amongst the others So international jet setter, Paul Robinson, joins us again this week.

4:00Who are you going to add as your plus one in the club? Well, hardly jet setting. I was in Jersey. That'll do. I'll take that. Jersey on easy jet. But it was actually very nice. Easy jet setting. Yeah, it was very cold too. Evan Spiegel, because he's the CEO of Snap, the parent of Snapchat. They've done a deal with Perplexity, which is a startup AI company. And their stock rose 18 % announcing that deal. And basically, you know, many social media networks are behind on AI. And this has given the shareholders enough confidence that, in fact, they will have a chance to catch up. So 18 % stock rise on doing a deal with a startup.

4:35Pretty damn clever, I think. Yes. Well, there's definitely a lot of cash coming from those AI deals and a lot of stock appreciation. Do you think we're in a bubble or is it it's going to change the world? So it's well valued. Well, when I was in Jersey, I met a company there who doing some incredible things, which I won't talk about in detail. but my mind was blown. Scary because of what it will do to jobs. But I think that we're currently in a bubble and the crazy phase, but it will settle down and become a really interesting and useful tool if properly introduced into workflow. But I'm really, I'm an AI advocate actually.

5:12Okay, in a moment, does the BBC need a reality check? I'll see you in a sec.

5:23Welcome back. Is the BBC like the Titanic, unable to change course? Well, that's what the Sidemen's manager has said this week. He manages the super successful YouTube channel. But Paul, he told The Guardian, the BBC needs a radical change to find young audiences. Is he right? I agree. The BBC is trying to do that. I think the difficulty for the BBC is, of course, the advocates are older. and you don't want to lose that advocacy because that really underpins the licence fee. And we know that in the last year, I think about 300 ,000 households have stopped paying the licence fee. So, you know, forget what licence fee increase they're going to get from this government.

6:04You know, if that continues, the BBC is really in deep doodos in about two or three years' time. So it has to convince people. And of course, those who do not pay a licence fee, choosing not to, are largely younger audiences who just don't see it as being relevant. So I absolutely agree. the BBC's got to do a lot more, not only in terms of the content it creates, but also its distribution strategy. And one of the other problems that it's got is, you know, it puts stuff on YouTube, but it doesn't get the points for it. People don't realise it's BBC content. So they've got to work out how to get advocacy for the BBC on content that is on third-party platforms.

6:37People don't think it's BBC content. But also is the problem that they're just shoving up bits of telly rather than making things for the YouTube audience, for people who have that as their primary bit of media consumption? Yeah, I mean, let me say I love the BBC, and I think Tim Davy is a really smart guy. But, you know, having worked there for many years, it is so hard to change things. There are so many layers. People would rather, you know, do what they've been doing. And when there are cuts in funding, rather than thinking, OK, this is serious, why don't we now completely re-engineer what we do?

7:08Let's rethink this. Let's do it differently. Or let's do something different, do something else. what they do is cut off limbs you know they cut down news night or they cut down children's shows or squish things together which is a really lazy way of doing things I mean the BBC's had a reduction in income in real terms absolutely but it's still getting £4 billion a year which should be enough to run I would have thought a decent public service broadcaster but somehow they don't seem to manage it they're too slow So they are not across technology properly. They're not across the content that really engages audiences.

7:46So, Jane, if you look at Channel 4, I've quite heavily leaned into YouTube more recently, Channel 4.0, doing deals with Spotify to put video content on there as well. Are they doing the right thing? And the BBC is sort of doing what you did on YouTube five, ten years ago. I mean, I'll slightly take issue with a couple of things Paul said, only because I think they have had four billion a year. Absolutely, it's a lot. but it's a 30 % cut over the last 10 years. It's been a massive cut. I think what they provide in terms of universal service is enormous. There are lots of things going on. Obviously, the original thing, the sidemen, it's true that less than half of 16 to 24-year-olds watch traditional TV of any kind, Channel 4, BBC, and that is happening across the board.

8:35Channel 4 are being more flexible, adept. They're doing things. They are quicker to move. They always have been. However, the BBC produced so much more. And I would argue when you said, are they just putting TV programmes? What is Sidemen, other than a sort of bit of a big brother for a new generation? I mean, they're not new formats. You know this more than anyone, Paul. These formats work. They're not packaging them right, maybe. But the BBC produced so much. I mean, I... You talk about packaging that. I think you're completely right. A lot of it is in reinventing things that have existed in the past.

9:11But why haven't they done it? I mean, they're not idiots. They're bright people. There's good TV producers there. I mean, look at the audience figures. I don't want to keep going on about traitors. Some of those shows, they punch through well into that demographic. But are those young people listening because it's a family consumption, listening and watching, it's a bit of family consumption. So, yes, they get the traitors that way. But would a 17, 18-year-old even knew the traitors existed had mum and dad not dragged them into a play? Well, all I know is that my eldest, who has just started work, he only watches it with his girlfriend because it's a really, they love it.

9:48He, however, having moved into his first flat, wasn't going to get a licence fee. And one thing I would agree with, Paul, and I was shocked that a child of mine would consider not getting a licence fee. But the moment I said, but it's for, he said, I only ever watch things on my laptop. And I said, well, but it's for everything else you get. It's the news. It's the World Service. It's for all of those shows. And he was sort of instantly convinced. And I think the problem with the BBC is where are their advocates? Within the BBC, what is going on? We need to have, every time there's a problem, every time, and we're going to talk about some of them, you know, they're sort of always on the back foot.

10:27They're just not coming out with the right messaging to deal with either the criticism, but also to sort of say we need the BBC more than ever against the sort of global forces of mis and disinformation. So to me, those great advantages need protecting and sort of the own, you know, they're not doing things right. It seems slightly to miss a trick because I think they're doing much which is good, genuinely. So, Paul, marketing, packaging challenge more than content? Well, I think Jane is right. I do agree that this issue about the young people you just mentioned, I don't think people understand what they get for the licence fee.

11:05I mean, you know, in radio, we've always known that's been a problem. They think radio is free. There's no idea the licence fee is paying for radio. They probably don't understand the licence fee is paying for online. And it's half a billion quid of that four billion. It's not insignificant. It's not nothing. So I think the BBC has failed to really communicate value and what it delivers. and you're right you get something like The Traitors which you know I do think actually independently young people have found that without family connection they have and it's got a very high percentage of young people watching it so you produce something really compelling and what's interesting about that is that show somehow cuts across all generations and classes it's just got a sort of a compelling nature to it which is about basically about humanity I mean they're stars but they're still humans you know it's got a compelling nature about it which transcends all of the differences that we have.

11:53I mean, it is the response to, we live in a niched world and mainstream's dead. Or is it the thing that actually proves that? It's the exception that proves the rule? I don't think mainstream is dead. I think because there's now so much choice, you're going to get fragmentation. That's inevitable. But you look at the sort of behavior you get in households. You know, kids will watch stuff on their mobile phones and that's their stuff. That's their influencer or their YouTube or a show they particularly like. And then they'll watch some things with their families, you know, big movies, big occasions, sporting events.

12:26I bet families were watching Traitors together. You know, I bet they were. I bet they were. You know, it's about finding the shows, but also communicating the value the BBC delivers. I mean, you know, RuPaul's Drag Race has done quite a good job for young people, but it's not enough. It needs more. And sometimes, you know, in the past, actually, to make a different point, Radio 1 when it was delivering 19-20 million listeners a week that to some extent was delivering young people to the BBC that of course has changed so BBC 1's reach is no longer what it was BBC 1 used to capture everybody doesn't anymore for the point you just made and that's really why there's a problem BBC 3 hasn't really delivered in any big way either it's BBC Choice or it's BBC 3 I mean there's a thought about platforms and the last 20 years has all been about media companies sort of reinventing themselves and creating their own platforms, a success of iPlayer or similar things from other broadcasters.

13:25Has kind of that boat sailed? Should they all abandon their own platforms and just head to where audiences are? Well, I absolutely think all media companies should head to where the audience is. But I think what we're really talking about is the value of the content that is produced. I think the mistake is to say, well, the boat has sailed, that platform's, you know, I think actually things are changing so fast. But if you're spending so much time supporting iPlayer or Sounds or one of those, is that time that could be best spent actually not worrying about all the infrastructure, building your own destination and just going, right, let's be more tactical about where license-free payers live?

14:02No, there's a danger of that, which we all know with YouTube. YouTube, the biggest platform in terms of content, video content. but the monetisation of that platform does not go back to the content producers. So why on earth, if you're on the BBC, should you not put money and effort into at least producing iPlayer and sound? I mean, we could talk at length about the value of both of those titles and names. And, you know, we've argued in the past about Kangaroo and the sort of, you know, having a sort of brick box. But actually, I think a platform where you do own the content, the rights i i don't think that's something to just give up lightly now you have to be as we keep saying really adaptable because these things are changing so fast you know we haven't even thought about the sort of impact of ai and the way that consumption habits are changing so i do think it you know don't give that up in terms of your own platform but obviously it's about the content and making sure you have the finance and the resources put into the right things are you about advocates and some advocates have popped up with the British Broadcasting Challenge.

15:11Have you seen this, Paul? Yeah, I read the report, yeah. So this is kind of Pat Young and co are trying to sort of put their own pressure on government to de-politicise the BBC and sort of spin it out into its own independent structure. Well, what was interesting about the report, I thought, is I was involved with the mid-90s charter renewal when John Burt was the DG and trying to figure out how we were going to get the license renewed. It's amazing how some of the new ideas in here, apparently, are new ideas. They were the same ideas of 30 years ago. I think the interesting one to just mention is universality and funding, because those two things link together.

15:49And back to the platform point that Jane was making, I do agree. I mean, on one hand, you could argue that the BBC should be everywhere, you know, universality. So therefore, on any platform, it doesn't really no matter what platform it's on, what matters is the content, getting the BBC brand out there, getting BBC shows out there, distributed by whatever platform you want. The problem comes to the funding, of course, doesn't it? And that is that we have BBC, the BBC Sounds, we have the BBC iPlayer, and you need a licence fee to access those. And the theory being, if you want to watch traitors, you've got to have a licence fee to watch it.

16:20So how do you square that circle? There's no solution here to the funding. I mean, it talks about a rather wish-washy solution of having a tax based on households. Well, that's sort of the licence fee, isn't it, really? That's exactly what the licence fee is. There's no solution to the funding. And as soon as you go down any road that is not universality of use, then you can't levy the sort of money you need. And I don't disagree that the BBC could have more money. I don't have a problem with that. My worry is that when you put more money into the BBC, it doesn't necessarily produce a better result.

16:51It can produce more legacy practices, more laziness. You know, you need sometimes adversity produces greater creativity and greater innovation. But I mean, I would not be averse to the BBC having more money or paying more for it if it solves some of these issues. Jane, government's never going to give up its hold on it. It's a useful thing to. I completely agree with Paul about funding. I thought what's interesting about it and which you, you know, this government needs to do something that's sort of ambitious and, you know, stirs the hearts. of whatever constituency they're trying to. And to me, the independence of the BBC is absolutely something they should do.

17:28You know, the first Labour government with a massive majority, which is failing to do anything, really, in the media space. And if I was them, I would make it independent because it causes so much trouble for me in government. Whichever flavour you are, just make it someone else's problem. It's also just the right thing to do. I mean, it's supposed to be an independent, you know a national broadcaster that is not run by the government and it's it's trust it's sort of the sense of people's ownership is so important and Labour stood by and watched those successive conservative governments do terrible things I mean I won't mention Nadine Doris but you know those successive ludicrous backroom deals and they could just make this you know they've got five years they could say, no, actually, we are going to agree with the thing about having proper independence, not having this sort of, you know, terrible movement over who's going to be the chair and whether they once voted Conservative or Labour.

18:31Have a proper process like they do in America and do it now. And they'll get so many brownie. But I know it's not at the top of their agenda. But my God, what is? I mean, you know, they're doing they're not doing much, are they? So why don't they do it? They say AI once more. I mean, you know, we are not going to be a country that excels globally in AI. We don't have the space. We just don't. Whereas broadcasting, the BBC, it's one of our greatest assets, or it should be. And yet they say nothing about it. Well, creative media, 6 % of GDP, huge part of the country. The one thing I did see in the report I quite liked was an additional purpose they suggested the BBC have, which is to sort of dispel misinformation and disinformation.

19:13because actually I think that would be a good thing, a more modern thing to build into a renewal process. I agree. Look, I agree with what Jane just said in the last sentence completely. You know, I want the BBC to be an independent journalistic source. You know, I mean, I want to trust the BBC journalism. You know, you don't know where to go. You know, you want to know the BBC is, you know, as impartial as it can be and does a really good job. And I really get annoyed when I see them disinvesting in news because to me that must be their number one purpose. and they need to be independent to do that.

19:44So I do agree. I don't know what the answer is and how you do it, but I do think an independent BBC is absolutely essential. And I too want the BBC to survive and thrive. In a way, we need it more than ever now. And Patricia Hidalgo made this point about American stuff on YouTube. Well, yeah, I get her point, but that's really her arguing for bigger budgets. But she's right. I do think that our culture and the nature of the UK should be reflected back to itself. This was the CBBC boss who was saying that it's important for the BBC to create this material because a lot of UK kids are consuming American content.

20:19Yeah, and I think she has a point. I mean, that point was made 30, 40 years ago when the Hollywood kids channels came in with Nickelodeon, Disney and Cartoon Network. But it's still relevant today. So I agree. Strong, well-funded, independent BBC producing quality. I think it might need to think about its purpose. I mean, it does seem to want to put tanks on every single lawn. you know maybe some lawn should be left bbc free and really do the things it does superbly okay just before we go to the break we're talking about traders earlier so uh in canada they put up the final uh before it was here on on the streaming service and quickly pulled it i mean paul this is one of the challenges of syndication and distribution great to get it out there i think australia are taking celebrity traders pretty much nearly live as well um but it does mean you don't have the control yeah i mean it's it's one of the challenges doesn't happen too often i mean god knows who did this and why they did it but they pulled it quickly i've just basically kept my head down today and not looked at websites you know try not to talk to too many people because i want to watch it tonight but that's the power of the format it's very rarely you know the number of people where you say oh you know got to be back benign because it's it's on and um at the beginning i think there was a sort of oh you can always watch it on catch up which i did and then And I saw a newspaper headline about Tom Daley and it completely spoiled it.

21:39I was so desperate not to hear or see anything that could make me realise it was going to happen. Linear. Linear is the future. Right. Fast channels. Live. It's live entertainment, isn't it, basically? It's back to the old days, isn't it? Yeah. Watercoli TV. OK. When we return, why the times have been burnt badly by the New York election. See you in a minute.

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23:27That's podcastdiscovery.com. Welcome back. Here's some stories we've been talking about in the club this week. Netflix is to license video podcasts from US radio giant iHeartMedia on condition that it removes its content elsewhere. Just like those Spotify shows are coming off YouTube for a similar deal. Will fans of the show be happy with its limitations? I guess we'll see. Employees at News UK had quite a shock recently when they were told that their wages will soon be paid in arrears, meaning paychecks get paused for a month. Worth a read of this week's Street of Shame in Private Eye if you want all the details.

24:04And the Times has described falling for its second hoax in 30 days as humiliating for the paper. According to Press Gazette, their associate editor Ian Brunskill wrote to staff to say that we should have been on our guard. We should have tried much harder to speak to the people concerned. If that's not possible, why not? Links to all of our stories are available on our weekly sub stack. Sign up now at themediaclub.com. It's free and you'll also get our weekly briefed newsletter where we review all of the media podcasts of the week. Sign up for free at themediaclub.com. Jane and Paul are still with me.

24:40Jane, I mean, The Times haven't had a great month, have they, with these two problems? No, I mean, the Bill de Blasio thing was sort of, you can imagine as a reporter, I mean, first of all, obviously it was a fake. You know, we thought it was a prank rather that somebody had called and pretended to be Bill de Blasio, who is actually a supporter of Sohran Mamdani and obviously great story. Then it emerges that actually what happens is the reporter from the Times calls a Bill de Blasio, who is some guy in New Jersey and basically starts talking about what he thinks about Mamdani. And he doesn't lie, but he plays along.

25:23But also at no point do they say, and I think as journalists you do sort of go, but in your time as a former governor, and at no point apparently was this apparent that they had never been in politics, it was got nothing to do with actual Democratic Party in New York. Anyway, writes the story, which was instantly debunked by the real actual former governor, de blasio who said i love mum and i'm a big fan this is a lie uh times pulls it you know huge uh egg on face and yeah i mean horrible sort of mistake um i think also the email address was like bill de blasio gmail.com as well that they've been uh conversing with as well that maybe was the giveaway obviously that that was the second one uh the first one was something that quite a few um journalists and titles have fallen for which is sort of fake ai spokespeople pr created yeah folk press gazette's done some great work on i was going to say press gazette has really led the way on doing some of the stuff around this it's been brilliant actually actually i think it's a modern journalistic challenge to like this is a new thing you have to to learn that you'll be getting into inbox but if you i think of the sort of if you look at those charts about you know the sort of number of people in pr the number of people are journalists i mean look at the numbers at Reach, for example, so few actual journalists doing the work under such time pressure.

26:45Then you put in AI where the ability of machinery to fake people, statements, voices, you know, trying to sort of withstand that is going to be harder and harder. And the wider campaign against the New York mayor, mayor-elect now, it's been pretty hostile from the New York press, hasn't it? I mean, I was almost tempted to put Mum Dhani as my person of the week. I think he's played a blinder when it comes to the media. He's obviously very charismatic. There's an incredibly positive profile in Vanity Fair. I don't know if you read it. But he, I mean, the attacks on him, which are now only going to get worse, the amount of money that has gone against his campaign from Democratic supporters, you know, a whole array of them.

27:33And yet somehow he is reaching. I was in New York for the weekend, came back before he was elected. But the placards along the marathon reached in New York. I mean, his support is astonishing. There was one Cuomo placard, hundreds for Mamdani. He has a real sort of get out. Now, it's going to get harder from now on. He's going to be in office. But I think his management of the media, which is to be, basically play against them, do his own thing. Always, he does the Trump, doesn't he? He says, I'm going to ignore the media coverage. The New York Times was very anti at the beginning. I'm going to ignore that.

28:13I'm going to do my own things. Jane, a couple of things. Since you're last on the show, you're now a member of the Scott Trust. Congratulations. Thank you. Is it strange to sort of, not swap sides, but you're used to working with the staff and now you're working with the bosses? You know, it's actually marvellous. I can't tell you how happy I am. From the minute I sort of went in and the head of security, obviously I was there for 18 years on the staff, and, you know, gave me a hug and it just felt like coming home. It's, you know, what I said about the BBC, I feel like about The Guardian. we need independent global media operators that aren't owned by people.

28:50There's a place for that. But, you know, I want The Guardian to survive and thrive. And I think it's in a good place. Anything I can do to help. And also you had your book, You May Never See Us Again, The Barclay Dynasty, A Story of Survival, Secrecy and Succession. What a story that's done. Available now. I mean, that story never stops. Never ending the telegraph. The telegraph. Now it's the paper arguing with their future owners. Oh, I mean, can somebody just do this as an extended drama? It's just amazing. I mean, you know, now they're having, so Charles Moore's gone back into the paper to talk about them.

29:28The pressure coming from Gerry Cardinale. You know, after two years, the closest we're getting to an actual buyer. You know, there's a deep upset on the newspaper floor. But on the other hand, there seems to be no other option. I don't think it's like Red Bird's preferred option to sort of own it themselves. That was never really the plan either. Never wanted to, but we are where we are, two and a bit years on, you know, with Abu Dhabi having put up all that money and trying to get some of it back. And, you know, we're now in this position again where two and a half years after it was seized from the Barclay brothers, for its enormous debts, the Telegraph is yet again in a situation where it seems to be about to be, you know, there's going to be debt loaded on it again.

30:12Not entirely clear what's going to happen. But the sort of interregnum hasn't been entirely happy for anyone, really. Is it sensible to argue with the new bosses? Like, what do they think the opportunity is? Do they think there's another white knight to come and save them? Good question. Because you would think if there was a white knight, they would have come up before now. One of the 17 other times to buy it. Yeah. Although, you know, I suppose as journalists, you also can't think, well, what's the point of that? Because if you think this isn't the right thing, something needs to happen, then you probably do go, you know, you do go public with it, which is obviously what they have done.

30:50The balls in the court of Lisa Nandy, you know, who I wrote, the last time I wrote about it a few weeks ago, I mean, this has been going on for such a long time, but I wrote a few weeks ago about, you know, the Labour Party don't really care what happens to a telepath. In fact, it was Tony Blair who allowed the Barclays to buy it without any public interest inquiry whatsoever in 2004. Probably going to happen again. Although it's tricky because it's, you know, we've had the Foreign State Interference Act over the amount of money that can be put in by whether Abu Dhabi or China. You know, so there is public interest.

31:28And I think there are elements of this. Is there public interest? I mean, there's a lot of interest from the right. You see it as a right wing organ, an important one. And the government is sort of bent over backwards to change the rules and sort of do what he's wanted. And now it's basically stuck making another decision because the game's changed again. I mean, it's a really good question because you think of things like the power of social media. So X and, you know, formerly known as Twitter and the power that has in terms of governing debate. Obviously, it's a much more fragmented environment.

32:00However, why do very rich people want to own newspaper titles? It is not to make money. It is to influence decisions and public opinion. And so that is a matter of public interest, I think. So transparency is important. You know, of course, we're going to have media owners. We always have. They've always had an involvement of some kind. But having transparency, having editorial standards, those things do matter because otherwise we might as well just all give up and be on X and what a terrible place to be in. That is true. Well, that's true. Okay, just enough time for the Audio Network Media Quiz.

32:42Strap in, let's see how much attention our guests have been paying to the media news this week. This week's quiz is called, Oh, Just Glow Up. Three media stories connected by one theme and then shoehorned into the format of an existing media property. This time we're doing three stories in the style of a makeover show like Queer Eye or Glow Up. And once again, Alex at Audio Network has bravely taken the brief and created a playlist of music to score today's game. It's the best of three. Buzz in with your names if you know the story. So Paul, you will say. Paul. And Jane, you will say. Jane. Let's play.

33:19I was thinking about that. Is that me buzzing in? Yes. It's high tech here, you know. Yes. Let's play. Oh, just glow up. fun fact that music's actually what's used on the bbc show glow up just throwing that in on behalf of our sponsors right question number one harry is worried he's starting to show his age so what will our team of cosmetic experts have in mind how about a 60 piece orchestra a 200 strong cast and a lead time of two and a half years it'll make your skin feel 10 years old again. Oh, is this Jane? Yes, Jane. It is me. Is this the Audible Harry Potter new recording thing? Yes, that's correct.

34:03Audible are launching a full cast production of all of the Harry Potter books. Huge cast, millions of words to go through. I mean, Paul, they've sort of got in before the HBO reboot. They have and what's interesting is they've set some very high watermarks. They're saying they want to exceed the 1.8 billion they've achieved before. I think it's going to be really interesting because audiobooks are growing, aren't they? They're growing in popularity, largely narrated. This is a full cast, full voice recording. If this works, I think this recipe is going to be copied by many people. And also, it lasts kind of forever, really.

34:40It's a great evergreen property for Audible. I'll be listening to it. Okay, point number one, Jane. Question number two. We need a fitting tribute to fallen journalists. something that looks great, inspires and pays tribute at equal measure. Megan, do I do Jane? Because I'm involved in this very slightly. Say it strongly. Jane. Jane, yes. I don't know if I like competitions like this. You're doing very well. I like a debate. Anyway, this is this really exciting plan for a sculpture in the National Arboretum for journalists. That's in Staffordshire. In Staffordshire. For journalists killed in conflict or in the sort of line of duty, basically.

35:22So they've launched the competition. The deadline is for a new sculpture to honour journalists. They've got some money, but they need some more to sort of finish it off. January the 9th is the deadline. And basically, journalists are one of the few professions without a memorial. And, you know, this of all years, the last thing I will say is that this year, I've been thinking a lot about more journalists killed than ever before. you know, Gaza, literally some of them killed with impunity live on air. So it just feels like, you know, it's a really sort of a moment at least to market. And this is a way to do it.

36:03I think it's going to be a complimentary sculptor in St. Bride's as well. Yeah. OK, one more to go. We have this footage of the president. It's baggy and needs a nip tuck. Paul. Yes. So this is the BBC being accused of editing Trump in such a way as to give the impression that he was advocating violence, the assault on Capitol Hill. He actually, in the middle of his speech, said, peaceful demonstration, make your voices heard. And this is a former adviser to BBC editorial policy who has said the BBC have mis-edited it to misrepresent Donald Trump. Yeah, and back to the Telegraph, a kind of Telegraph splash.

36:46I mean, I sort of read this and my sort of initial thought was it's just a sort of standard Telegraph sort of slag off the BBC job. And when you sort of dig into it, obviously there is some element of truth, but do you think they were describing something that wasn't true? Was it just an edit to make work in the programme? I mean, I, like you, at the beginning thought, well, this is just having a go at the BBC or something. But when you then read the bit in the middle, as Paul said, does, it does the point is, that changes the meaning, but we know from all the inquiries that actually he did encourage insight people to do that.

37:25But if at the time he said that in the speech, it's misrepresenting the speech he did indeed. I mean, the thing was it was a very long speech too, because they said it's an hour difference, so it sounds like maybe someone was in a hurry. Yeah. Is it like the Queen Gate thing? I think it might be. Well, like most things more cock up than conspiracy yes uh congratulations jane uh two points to one um uh good good win good win but what's the prize what's the prize the prize this week well um maybe we need to make the the quiz its own independent uh analyzed structure uh so we can be fair each time you can you can lead that process as the prize it's more work to win i think i think the quiz should be the prize should be next time we do this we have a christmas glass of wine or something.

38:10Well, that would make it worth competing, wouldn't it? Yeah, you work on that. See, the guests want riders now. We do. This is the challenge. And I want my trailer out the back, please. My thank you to Paul and Jane and also thanks again to Alex from Audio Network for supplying today's music. Remember, Audio Network can do this for you as well. Just head to audionetwork.com and click the link on the show notes. Right, before we go, where can people keep up with your work? What are you posting at the moment, Paul? Oh, everywhere, really. I'm platform neutral. LinkedIn is probably best. OK, great.

38:43Yeah, I think I was always really sniffy about LinkedIn. And now I don't really use X. I don't really use Blue Sky. And I'm not actually posting anywhere near as much. Are you two? I'm finding LinkedIn is sadly becoming a core destination. But do you do it? So what I struggle with is LinkedIn is that sort of, you know, what you're doing. whereas Twitter used to be I'm really enjoying watching Celebrity Joda where do you do that? I think LinkedIn's obviously you can plug yourself and we all should plug ourselves we shouldn't be embarrassed by that but also I think it's a good place to say good stuff you've seen other people do yeah I agree I tend to keep it more business and less personal but where do you do the oh I'm watching Celebrity Joda's WhatsApp I don't do it I just do WhatsApp well I do it on the media pod there's still the show do it here and Jane Journalism-wise, so even though you've poached the term gamekeeper all the other way around, still writing for The Guardian as well?

39:41Yes. I'm still writing about the media. Yeah, doing bits and pieces all over. Great. Thank you both. Thank you for listening and watching. My name's Matt Deegan. The producer is Matt Hill. It was a Rethink Audio production with video support from Podcast Discovery. I'll see you next week.

40:02so retrospectors which historical events are we ticking off on this week's run of today in history on monday the anniversary of the day magic johnson made an announcement that shocked america on tuesday we discovered that in the early days tom and jerry were a cat and a dog on wednesday spend a penny at london's first public toilets for women on thursday the day malcolm x came to smetherg and on friday the cool true story behind cool runnings that's today in history with the retrospectors 10 minutes each weekday wherever you get your podcasts