Prince Harry In Court, BBC on YouTube, Channel 4 Studios

0:01Hello, welcome to the Media Club. I'm your host Matt Deegan. In the club today, Prince Harry is back in court, this time bringing the Daily Mail to heel, or trying to, but as both sides bring robust arguments, could this one get messy? Journalist and TV producer Stephen D. Wright get the popcorn out. Also on the show, the BBC agrees a deal with YouTube and Ofcom to produce content for the platform. A TV critic, Rhianna Dillon, explains the deal and what it means for your feed. All that plus Channel 4 gets commercial. The government throws a spanner in the Telegraph deal, again. And in the Audio Network Media Quiz, we take on the gossip columnists.

0:37That's all happening in this edition of the Media Club. Come on in.

0:47Hello both. Hi. Lovely to see you on the sofa. Rihanna, great to have you back. Thanks for having me back. TV critic, film critic, bit of everything really. I did that, yeah. As a hallowed member, who would you like as your plus one this week? I might be a few weeks late with this, but I would love to invite Jacob Tierney. onto the media club, into the media club, because you may have heard of Heated Rivalry. It's everywhere at the moment, but it's growing and it's snowballing. And what might be such a niche show, it's a gay Canadian ice hockey show. Yes, and from a Canadian broadcaster as well.

1:24It wasn't designed to be like a Netflix super hit. It was supposed to be very small, really, I think. And yet it has just spiralled, snowballed everything. And it's wonderful that it's found. And I mean, I can't remember an insane number of minutes that it's racked up in terms of viewing. But it's just I think he's done such a great job of making sure that it feels really inclusive. It doesn't feel too heavy handed or on the nose. And he gets the smut. Right. Right level of smut. Which is always important. And the right level of ice hockey. Yeah, which is not very much. Stephen, have you seen Heated Rivalry yet?

2:01I have. I saw it several months ago on a very kind of, watch this, this is the new movie. And I hated it. Did you? Because the first two episodes, the first episode particularly, is a load of old rubbish. I have to agree. It really is very badly made. I have to agree that the first episode, you have to persuade people to keep watching. And so I was like, oh, for God's sake. And it's just, it is nonsense. I mean, you've got to admire the camera angles because they keep the goods out of shot. But they try and get everything else in. But it's kind of nonsense at first. Yeah. and then episode three it starts to build so I it's a standalone episode episode three isn't it that's the thing it starts to get better but the first episode is you just go what and of course the whole world's gone mad for it but it's not the best TV in the world no but it's it invites you in yeah oh no definitely I mean it's this but it's one of those things where you watch it and if anybody watching this like oh I'll turn it on the first episode is really it seems like a load of old rubbish well that's good advice to plough through I have it I have it ready to watch keep going yeah and especially Apparently everyone's in tears by the end of the series.

3:02I wasn't, but I did. That's just your hard heart. Speaking of hard hearts, Stephen, lovely to have you back on the show. Who would you like as your plus one? So I'm going to nominate my friend who is a director called Peter Hoare. And he is becoming one of the biggest directors in TV, which is amazing to see, actually. It's great. I mean, he's obviously talented and everything. But five years ago, he did It's a Sin. and then he's worked a lot with Russell T Davies since but he's also then gone off and done quite a lot of big Netflix shows, he did The Last of Us he did episode 3 in the first series, the one that became known as the best episode of TV ever in the whole world I mean it was good, you know, but anyway he has basically had a stonking week because, I don't know if you saw the media report saying that Blake Seven's coming back Oh yes!

3:50So he's involved with that and he's getting to that stage now where he can start to kind of, you know, his name mean things so he just did boots for netflix i don't know if you saw that which is fantastic talking about a heated rivalry a fantastic drama which unfortunately netflix have cancelled because donald trump doesn't like gays which is basically the reason i mean it's a huge hit on netflix but they're not doing a second series because they don't want to annoy the trump administration i mean it's terrible really but it's one of those things you know the gay marine things but great series he did that he's then done tip top for channel four for rusty davis again that comes I think another couple of weeks.

4:27Then another thing, then a film. It's like, oh my God. You know, everyone else is, you know, signing on. He's doing really well. So the Blake 7 thing, I think, just pushes him into the kind of, you're the hero of the week. Well, if he's got enough time, he can definitely pop in for a drink. Absolutely. Okay, in a moment, Prince Harry's in court again. That's all after the break.

4:52Welcome back to the Media Club. Prince Harry is taking on the Daily Mail this week with a high-stakes court battle. But it's not just him, Rhianna, is it? Who else has joined his merry gang? A lot of huge names. Elton John, who I sort of think is there also to fund this whole operation. His husband, David Furnish, of course. Liz Hurley has cropped up again. She was in court today as we're recording. Sadie Frost is joining this. MP Simon Hughes. Is there someone I'm missing? Dame Doreen Lawrence who is Stephen Lawrence's mother that's a really interesting one because the Daily Mail were behind were kind of really pushing to help find Stephen Lawrence's killer they were on the same side for a very long time so it's interesting that she's now suing them a lot of these sorts of cases particularly we saw at News International were settled so they never really had their day in court and part of the reason that they were settled was because if the costs that sit around it, you still might be responsible for.

5:58So no one really wants to take on that level of risk, even if you're a Hugh Grant or someone like that. I mean, Stephen, the amounts like potentially£40 million in costs that kind of could go either way. And it's not necessarily a slam dunk, is it, for Harry and the gang? I'd be amazed if Harry loses. I mean, they're obviously going to go with a, we're going to fight you, which is great for us to watch and enjoy and sit, you know, knitting as we see the heads roll and all the rest of it but I don't think anyone's got any sympathy for the male whatsoever although whether they've got sympathy for Harry I don't know either but hey, watch this space.

6:33Well a judge will get to decide whether that's the case I mean on the fees Prince Harry, he's got a bob or two all the money from Netflix and the book if you're on the kind of Simon Hughes end of things it could be more troublesome. Oh yeah, I mean, but... And also it might be found that Harry's okay and that it's judged against the Daily Mail, but actually for Simon Hughes, it might not be. They might find that that's what they didn't do. This is the thing about justice. Justice isn't justice, it's about money. So, you know, anyone who goes into the High Court is really, you know, it's the last thing anybody wants to do.

7:09Do you think that the Mail would be pushing this so hard? Because this will also, I mean, it's not like kind of broadsheets, tabloids, are doing incredibly well at the moment. They would lose a huge amount of money. There's a huge risk for them as well. And I wonder if that's also maybe why there is slightly less sympathy for Harry, because, I don't know, sometimes it does feel like that side is in such dire straits. And if you're taking a huge chunk out of that for something that happened a long time ago, there are like new readers now, there are new people in charge. Does this feel as relevant as if it had happened all that time ago.

7:46I don't know. And I wonder if that's maybe why he's slightly losing the public. It seems to me that Harry's got more enmity against the male than towards the sun and the mirror and all the rest of them. The males seem to be the worst to him. Whether they are, we don't know. But it's Harry's day in court. That's what he's wanted. Yeah. And he got very emotional in court. Yes, absolutely. He cried and let off the court, kept crying. They've ruined my wife's life, I think, with the line. Or something like that. But whether... And that's probably true. But whether it's criminal or not, or whether...

8:18Oh, no, I mean, journalists are... You know, tabloid journalists are scum. We all know that. That's the thing. There's no revelation, really, because that's how great British tabloids have always operated, like a pack of wolves. Still today? What's that? Still today? I would think it probably is. But as Rihanna said, the news media is becoming sort of old hat. But that way of, you know, the old news of the world, phone hacking, lying, paying everybody, taking pictures of bodies in morgues, whatever. That was all the norm. But is this the last coverage of that? The last hurrah. Is that, you know, this is the sort of the final reckoning?

8:55Could be. I mean, it could be. I thought it was interesting to speak, Rihanna, the Beckham issues. Yeah. Parents and children. Speaking of sitting back with popcorn. But also Instagram driven. And obviously it was front pages the next day, but everyone is kind of engaged with it 12 hours before online. Yeah, because that's where Brooklyn Beckham, as a child of that generation, chose to speak out. And, you know, he owns that platform that was on his page. He wasn't having to go and break it through an external thing. So again, if we're talking about attention, it was him getting all of the attention and not, as you say, someone like The Guardian breaking it.

9:30Whose side are you on in the Brooklyn Battle? Oh, no, that's not fair. As someone who I love... Independent observer. I laugh myself silly every time the picture of him, of his elephant in his photo book comes up, which are incredible to see, but so difficult to photograph. I've loved the amount of Instagram and TikTok memes about Victoria Beckham dancing at the wedding. They're twerking on him. And it's just amazing the stuff that's... I think it's more the memes that have come out of it than the story itself. Although apparently that story is not true. Two of the main sort of accusations have been disproved immediately.

10:05Are you just a shill for Big Beckham? Absolutely. I'm taking all the Beckham money. The dress was by Valentino. It took a year to organise. Yes, absolutely. So that immediately throws something out. And then the second thing was, it wasn't the first dance. The first dance was done in a big formal way. It was later on when Mark Antony, I think, came on and did a performance. Then Beckham got up on stage or something. I'm team Victoria. Maybe he'll have his day in court at some point as well. Okay, moving on. The BBC have announced a deal to produce content for YouTube. Rhianna, it's not exclusively for YouTube.

10:38It's sort of like off-platform stuff. Yeah. I mean, you look at it and go, sure. Yeah. It isn't, it's not really exciting news, is it? You're not like, oh, wow, this is, you're like, this is a very much, it feels like our last hurrah. I mean, Channel 4 have been doing this for a very long time. They have their episodes out. I was watching some today, in fact, of teachers from 2004, which just shows how up to date I am on current TV shows. so yeah this doesn't this doesn't feel particularly exciting I was thinking about how when the BBC did the deal with Disney Plus about Doctor Who and how they simulcast the finale and how that just lost them loads of viewers and obviously that's going to be slightly different with YouTube they're making their money through advertising if it's outside of the UK but it does just feel like they're really dissipating their brand now and you can understand it I mean they're sort of trapped aren't they the young audience have fleed last month was the first time that YouTube figures had overtaken BBC figures by a million I think and so you can absolutely understand it but it's just, I don't know, as somebody who has worked for the BBC for a long time it's just like a little chip away at my heart to kind of you can see the direction that this is going losing a little bit more of its identity each time I think Steve, is it too little too late?

12:02Yes, but at least they're doing something. They should have done this 10 years ago. They should have gone in and owned the space, etc. They still could. They could absolutely get behind YouTube and go, right, we're going to release stuff left, right, centre. But instead, the new commissioning model is the old commissioning model. Yes, and today, Broadcast have outlined, I'm sure it's probably been published, what they're going to be asking for, kind of from indies. Yes, so it's basically, as far as I understand it, it's a£2 million fund. It's essentially a tender. uh indies have to put forward you know we will do i don't know 30 short form docs or whatever and they'll get a million quid so it'd be two two indies are chosen which isn't how youtube works youtube works with let's give us the best ideas to send them in that's what they should be doing and to me if the bbc got in bed with youtube properly you forget the old school commissioning model because that is really dying and that doesn't talk to young filmmakers and start getting stuff on that would that would i mean so you know yes they're starting but whether it's saying five years this is how it continues to work because it feels very old school bbc at the moment i haven't seen a huge amount of detail about it but when i had a quick look they were sort of saying you know we're after sort of like a doc series one of the things they don't want polemics they don't want politics they don't want anything nasty but they want anything that does well on youtube yes exactly they don't want anything controversial they want sort of you know human life stories and things So it's like, well, yeah, it sounds like old school BBC Three.

13:29I think the thing that sort of surprised me, why commission the stuff that you've sort of made in the past? Like your opportunity on the platform is to just do a great version of what's been tested by the people. I mean, to me it should be, we're doing YouTube, send us your ideas. Because then they are another YouTube, but they've got the BBC sort of, you know, facility. Because there's a lot of creators that have great ideas that have never had the money to execute them really well. They did say, oh, you know, the Indies can then partner with some of these people. But it's a bit sort of, it's all a bit of a fudge, you know what I mean?

14:02And it sounds a little bit old-fashioned, middle class. Yeah. A little bit like we're going to curate it for you. They don't need to be curated. They can be better, better made, polished, you know, and sophisticated and look good and all that. But that's five years ago, curating. Now it's about, like, let's get the loudest or the cleverest or the fastest. You know, that's the thing that they really need. If there was a BBC channel on YouTube, people would start watching it if it had good content. Yeah. That's all that really matters. Rhianna, do you think it sort of fits in with the creative economy or creator's economy, really?

14:36The way that they're doing it? Yeah. No, I don't. I think this is the, they've made this mistake before when they got like, you know, YouTubers at Radio One. They were trying to kind of piggyback off the success of these, which we didn't necessarily call them influencers all the way back then, but they were. they were trying to piggyback of their success got them in as DJs and tried to make them BBC instead of like you say turning it the other way around and we're thinking how can we become more YouTube and they're doing that all over again except what 15 years later but just with TV instead of radio and it just it does feel like it's going to be a missed opportunity because as you say if they own the brand if they speak to the audience I think that's the trouble they're still they still have an idea of what a BBC viewer is and as long as they keep that, they're never going to change.

15:21They need to be speaking to the people who are watching YouTube, not BBC. Yeah, which is lots of people. Which is a lot of people. Finally, just before the break, Channel 4 has announced the person to run its first ever commercial production arm, sort of in the style of BBC studios or ITV studios. Stephen, who is it? Sarah Dilliston. Yes, that's right. Who used to be a commissioner, who's been in America, who's done TV, blah, blah, blah, fantastic TV. But to the rest of the world, to the rest of the indies, she's the devil incarnate because she's going to be sitting inside channel four's headquarters and not mixing with the commissioners because they're going to keep it bollocks this is an outright scandal from a from an indie perspective because you are going to become uh you know you're a teacher's pet and you're in the room you're mixing with them every day years ago i remember speaking somebody and they said my uh strategy a very big media name turn up at channel four every day and just stand around, literally sit there, because you need to be in somebody's, in their eye, and then they go, oh, yeah, you could do it.

16:24And that was their secret of success. Do you think that works? It definitely works. You know, I mean, you see commissioners, oh, hi. They walk away, they forget who you are. And it's that thing, if you're not making a program from them, you're dead. But, you know, it's like, so to the Indies. Is that how you treated your Indies? Not me, no, I was always. Absolutely, because I had been in TV for a long time before I became a commissioner, as very open doors. But a lot of people don't know who everybody is. I mean, they get to meet people, but they meet them in Channel 4 or wherever. So the idea that this girl's going to be sitting in some sort of corner, but not mixing bollocks, she's going to be walking past them every day.

17:00She'll be pitching to them when she goes to the loo. That's how you work. And so she's going to have an unfair advantage. We all know that. But is that okay? Is that okay to have an unfair advantage? It's a completely unfair advantage, because what about all the other indies? That's where it becomes unfair. But are Channel 4 in a place now, Now they're able to make their own things, just like other broadcasters are able to make their own things. I don't agree with that, though. It's tough. It's tough. It's unlucky for the Indians. They should have a quota then. They should have a very, very high indie quota, 75%, 25 % in-house, or whatever.

17:31But this idea that it's going to be fair and that the in-house studios are going to be, it's like, fuck off. Channel 5 did the same thing. Nobody got work. It was all went to Elephant House or whatever the fuck they called. I'm sorry. now getting very kind of angry because this is the problem if you're an indie you don't get to you know you send an email in you wait for a response if you're sitting in the office you walk past their desk you go hiya you stand behind them in the canteen you're in the loo together well exactly but Rihanna if you're channel 4 and you've got to kind of cope with the future you've got to make your own stuff surely I mean you do have to make your own stuff I'll just grumble and grind my teeth at this point and people who've known in the indie sector is particularly happy no, PACT have already spoken against it they said it's going to cost something like 3.7 billion or something, whatever it was and it's like, because it's going to take money away from the indies the indies are the best in the world there's a huge thriving economy which requires the TV companies to be open for business but not if they're secretly palming off if they are the best, if they've got the best ideas wouldn't that win?

18:35wouldn't that score for you? you're like a Roman gladiator You know, oh, let's see who survives the bloodbath. Yeah, of course. It's a very high-minded attitude, Matt, you know. OK, where we return, more high-mindedness as we dive into some more media gossip. See you in a sec.

18:57Why start your own studios when you can use one like this? Podshop Studios, where we record the Media Club each week. You'll know that each studio has its own distinct look and feel. This week we're in a lovely library if you're watching this. There's lots of different sets. You can have a look at them on the Podshop website. That's podshaponline.co.uk. Also the place to go if you want 25 % off your first booking. Just use the code MEDIACLUB and get a lovely discount for starting a podcast here at Podshop Studios. Welcome back. Here's a few other stories we've been talking about in the club this week.

19:32in the never-ending story of the sale of the Telegraph. Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy has said she is minded to refer the male owner's bid to the Competition and Markets Authority, just as her predecessor was minded to refer Redbird IMI's bid over two years ago. What could possibly go wrong? ITV and Global have launched the Birthday Draw, a new weekly national prize draw offering a million-pound jackpot. The contest, which involves picking your birthday, favorite color and more is the first time the companies have partnered for a cross network partnership of this scale and topical comedy panel show mock the week is set to return with host dara obrean uh the reboot is coming from warner brothers uh discoveries channel tlc which has just moved free to air and it starts on february the first also hugh dennis is returning to get more on those stories and all the things we talk about on our free sub stack sign up at themediaclub.com and get an email about the show and an email about what all the other media podcasts are talking about each week sign up for free at themediaclub.com Rhianna and Stephen are still with me Stephen what do you think of Mock the Week returning?

20:40Quite sort of pleasant yes it's a good show it's a good show it's a bit annoying that they're bringing back an old format because they could create their own new one but if you're TLC oh yeah they want it's a guaranteed kind of name brand hit thing whatever so you know if darabrine's on it then it's going to be worth watching yeah uh and i think that's really all that matters it's it's it's i mean but it could have been a uk gold repeat you know i mean in terms of the the news excitement level it's um it's a bit safe it's a bit conservative but i bet hugh dennis is thrilled to be back in the news slightly again and also big news this week oscar uh noms haven't seen them yet uh i don't think you've seen them literally just dropped a couple hours ago tell us who's who's in well the big the big news is sinners because because there was a chance that that might have been forgotten about a little bit or kind of brushed under the carpet it has won a record by getting 16 nominations the first one to do that god that's amazing it is incredible um so before that yeah i mean this is an insane this so it was all about eve in 1950 titanic in 97 and la la land in 2016 sinners has broken through all of those weird because sinners is good but it's not that good but i think it's a genre kind of blend that we haven't really seen before with an all-black cast yeah i mean it's a great film but to me it was one of the ones with slightly hyped watched it and went oh yeah it's good i really liked it i really wasn't bad or anything but it's not 16 nominations good or is But maybe it is.

22:14Maybe the idea of the Oscar film is changing. Oh, yeah, that's true. Last year, I was on this podcast talking about how irrelevant they've become. And actually, now this feels a lot more exciting. It's certainly a cooler film. It is. Yeah, God, yeah. Michael B. Jordan. Because also, you have these heartthrobs. You've got Timothee Chalamet, you've got Jacob Elordi as Frankenstein, and Michael B. Jordan, all nominated. so it feels very much like this is powered by a younger generation they might actually be switching on to watch I think that's actually quite a good way of doing it Do you think Shalouet's got a chance?

22:48I think he does He doesn't mind campaigning for these things does he? He's telling everyone he's got a chance therefore he's got a chance I think he's yeah I think there's a certain honesty about that I admire it There's a lot of trying to get awards where it's ads in variety and like you know just please vote for our gang He's like I'm great I am the best I've ever been I'm working really hard. And you do have to admire, we don't really blow our own trumpets enough. So best picture, you've got Begonia, Frankenstein, F1. Oh. Yeah, that feels like a bit of, I mean, I guess, again, it was a blockbuster.

23:23It got people into the cinema. Maybe that is what we need to be rewarding. Sentimental value, one battle after another, of course. Leonardo DiCaprio is nominated. Hamnet. And I think Jessie Buckley has absolutely got to storm this. She's extraordinary. Left me cold. I love her so much. I obviously don't have a heart. Push on, Rihanna, push on. Honestly, I cried so much during Hamnet. I cannot believe it didn't move you. I mean, I liked it. You know, but I didn't go... I know, of course, it was that thing about... I was expecting to be sort of sobbing at the end and all the rest of it. I mean, I liked...

23:59I thought it was a good film. I thought they did fantastic work. Anything leave you sobbing this year? The best one I've seen is, what do you call it? Pillian. I loved Pillian I thought that was a great film that's going to do well at the BAFTAs it's not even obviously no no no I mean it's not going to be released in America I think it's next week but that was one of the ones that was a surprise it was actually more romantic and moving than I was expecting it's a beautiful film but Sinners I'm still quite reeling about Sinners being such a kind of maybe you need a second watch good for Ryan Coogler yeah bloody well done well he's a killer director he really is but yeah no I just and well and Chloe Zhao It's at least our directing category is a little bit more diverse than it is normally this year.

24:39Good, good, good, good. And both of you are critics. Stephen, I've seen you do some sometimes radio stuff recently as well. Anything you've noticed trend wise, TV world, film world? There's a lot of kind of big dramas that are not sustaining, that launch, that are, you know, all the kind of what the hype, the PR, the magazine articles, everything. First two weeks, then they sort of become invisible after like three weeks. that's a really weird scenario people are not sticking to the end and things like that there's a lot of sort of watch the first two and then they don't bother you know the old fashioned thing would be you know they build but they don't they seem to they launch and then they sort of and they're not rubbish I think it's quite easy when a whole series drops and you've got you've kind of got a few on the board and it's like we've done a couple of episodes of this are we pushing on we don't pick this one to come back to straight away whereas maybe previously you would have I think I think that some of the network, the streamers are using the weekly scheduled drop thing now as a kind of, as a more attractive gimmick.

25:39Anticipation. It works with the traitors so well. Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, if they'd have done the whole lot on the first night. Night manager, obviously, that's not a scheduled drop. Well, again, that seems to have sort of faded and I think you had to wait till episode four to realise the spoiler that Richard Roper was still alive or whatever. I'm sorry, I've ruined it for you. I don't know that. But you know what I mean? I hope it's the premiere. Listen, as I was watching the episode, executive producer, you know, Hugh, okay, right. We know he's coming back. I had to interview Hugh Laurie on stage at the premiere and nobody obviously knew that he was in the air.

26:08It was good last year. You were a great corpse at the beginning of episode one when they did the flashbacks. Comedy of the Year last year, Murderbot on Apple TV, Alexander Skarsgård playing a killer robot. He's a robot in space. Yeah, who kills people. Yeah. I.e. a murder bot. So there you go. Brilliant. Curse of Apple TV, great shows. No one knows about them. Yes, exactly. Apart from Slow Horses. Yes. Everybody knows about Slow Horses. I mean, that's the big... You know when you're saying what's the big trend? That's the thing. There's so much content out there, nobody knows where to look for it.

26:39And even if you tell people, they don't sort of believe you because there's still too much out there. People are quite anti-Apple TV and actually their shows are... They're big budget. Severance is incredible. Yeah, some of them are great. And some of them are... I mean, Pluribus. Pluribus started big and then has anyone carried... See, Pluribus... See, I gave up on episode three. Have you watched Pluribus? I'm not. I only know the story about the woman who thought her fridge was talking to her and it was an advert for Pluribus on her fridge, her digital fridge. Nice. Well, I was looking on, I was like looking on Reddit, like the subreddits for reviews of things.

27:11Love that. And Pluribus is like a 50-50 split. This is the most boring show you've ever seen. And the other half going, you TikTok scrollers can't cope with this. It's interesting. It's interesting. I'd say, did you not get through the whole thing? So I've watched, I think, first two or three, and then it's like I've got other things to watch. That's what's annoying. I want to watch them all, but I don't seem to have that kind of I'll just sit for two days and watch everything anymore. So they just hang there. And there's very few shows now that I'll watch unless they drop once a week, in which case I go, oh, so-and-so's on tonight, and I'll watch that show.

27:47So I actually still have that brain that goes, Wednesday night, such-and-such is coming out. So, although I am a dinosaur. Well, I enjoy purpose, though. I'm just thinking, I did like fast forward bits of it. Just like, they're not talking. We can just zoom through. Let's have this on twice speed. I would never do that. That's horrific. That's terrible TV etiquette. Somebody's fast forwarding you right now. Not just the adverts they're skipping. Speaking of which, just enough time for the Audio Network Media Quiz.

28:16Three media stories connected by one theme and then shoehorned into the format of an existing media property. This week, it's Media Monkey. once upon a time the broadsheet press all had a diary column to disclose rumor and gossip from westminster and high society and within the guardians monday media pages there was media monkey performing a similar task so i'm going to present three coded media stories for you to untangle from this gossip diary entry and once again alex audio network has taken that scurrilous Steve here at this point. From Producer Match. And creates a playlist of music to score today's game.

28:56It's the best of three, so buzz in with your names if you know the story. Okay. So Rihanna, you will say. Rihanna. And Stephen, you will say. I'll say Stephen. Let's play Media Monkey. He may be known for his vegan sweeties these days, but treading the floors of one of Jamie Lang's recent soirees, I happened upon a familiar pair of eyes in the crowd. Yeah, I can't remember his name. Look at this fresh-faced former Amazon podcast exec. Rihanna. Yes. Can't remember his bloody name. But it's the guy who was an exec at Novel and Sky and various other outlets. Jamie Lang and Sophie Haboo have nabbed him as their CEO for Jampot.

29:39Yes. Their podcast. Yes, so Jampot makes Jamie shows and quite a few others, Play With Faith Show, other things, and he's going to be their first. They've got five podcasts. Yes. So I'm guessing they want to grow that this year. It's tough, isn't it, for indies to expand? You have some success and you can't really replicate it. You've got to push it out and do new things. That's difficult. Oh, God, yeah. The problem with big shows, companies, is they're too busy making a show to be pitching. You always need to be doubling up all the time. It's the only way you can do it. And you see it happen all the time.

30:10Big companies get stuck making the shows because it's hard to make shows. And they forget to keep pitching or they forget to develop or they forget to do spin-offs or whatever, because, you know, they're spinning plates all the time. It'll be interesting to see how many podcasts they're going to do without Sophie and Jamie, because currently they do three of the five. So that expansion will be interesting. Well, we'll see what Craig has to do and try and get him on the show and he can tell us himself. OK, here's diary entry number two. Age may not be the barrier it once was to a TV career, but which culinary contributor is hanging up her...

30:42Oh, I know this one. Stephen. Yes. This is what's-her-face. Prue. Prue at 86, finally getting her cards. She's basically chucking in the towel at 86, part-time, I say. No, she should have left 20 years ago and let a young person in. No, no, she's 86, for God's sake. Oh, is she? 86. But you know what I mean? It's like, Christ, how can you still be working at 86? So it's a sort of a, it's being built a little bit like, oh, you know, a tragedy, she's leaving. It's like, no, no, she's 80. And her response is, I'm bloody 86. Let me retire. She wants to spend time in her garden. Yeah. Stop baking. Away from 20.

31:19Reform MP son. It was like, away from 20 cakes every Saturday. Well, I mean, Mary Berry's what? In her 90s now. You know what I mean? Attenborough's 99. It's like, for God's sake. Give these guys a break. Let them retire. Do we, any thoughts who will replace Prue? Somebody in their 20s. I wonder, because they've got a really good junior Bake Off team. So Jean-Maker, if you haven't watched it, Harry Hill presents it. Ravneet Gill and Liam, who was a previous contestant on the regular Bake Off, they are the judges. I think Ravneet Gill will be a great coup for this. She's gorgeous. She has her own restaurant.

31:57She's young. She would add some much needed life. And I feel like she's so nice to the kids, but I think she could be quite as epic to adults. That's good. Well, you heard it here first. Right. One more to go. the role of editor at large can mean many things for the male it's a way to retain paul dacre's services while prince harry takes your business to court but what does it mean for startup mag the new world oh stephen yes this is another old timer alan ruspringer yeah how old is he he's about 150 no he's got to be what 70 odd you know so it's like it's just like come on you should be doing your gardening and you know watching daytime tv like the rest of them so the new the new world is what was the new european yes exactly so they brought him in he's quite a good get oh yeah he's a very he's still a sexy name in press terms but he is an old school name you know what i mean and so it is kind of that thing of people used to retire at 60 65 but now nobody retires uh but you know what i mean so it's like he is he's not again an old media dinosaur so So still going for it.

33:03There's hope for us all. Well, hopefully, yeah. And that makes Stephen our winner. Congratulations. As a special prize, you have to go and find us an editor at large that we can drag in for press. Also, my thanks to Alex at Audio Network for supplying today's music. Remember, Audio Network can do that for you too. Just head to audionetwork.com and there's a link in our show notes as well. Okay, just before we go, where can people keep up with you and your work? What is your social networks of choice, Rihanna? I'm on Instagram, but also you can catch me on Friday mornings on Nick Grimshaw's breakfast show on BBC Six Music.

33:36Excellent. Stephen? I am on all the usual, you know, places, but I'm also big in Hungary. Oh. Starting in February, one of my formats is being made in Hungarian. So anyone in Budapest, you know. Which one? Celebrity Call Centre. So it starts February the 8th. Have you seen any rushes? I have seen a sort of thing but I don't know whether Did you understand it? God no No but I was in Budapest six weeks ago talking about it so I loved the place but yeah Excellent we look forward to seeing that on somewhere Yes Good And thank you for watching and listening as well My name's Matt Deegan The producer is Matt Hill It was a Rethink Audio production with visual support from Podcast Discovery And I'll see you next week

34:30So, retrospectors, what historical events are we ticking off on this week's run of Today in History? On Monday, the anniversary of the treason scandal that divided France. On Tuesday, we explain how America fell in love with ice rinks. On Wednesday, they didn't come from Harlem and they didn't travel the world, but the Harlem Globetrotters still broke the mould. On Thursday, Britain's first black Member of Parliament, who was surprisingly pro-slavery. And on Friday, long before the national mourning for Princess Diana, the nation stopped for Lord Nelson's funeral. That's Today in History with The Retrospectives.

35:02Ten minutes each weekday, wherever you get your podcasts.