What’s Hot At MIPCOM: Video Games, Anime & Being Friendly

0:01Hello and welcome to the Media Club. I'm your host Matt Deegan. In the club today attention

0:35Transcription by CastingWords be the same again. That's all coming up in this edition of the Media Club. Come on in.

0:47Welcome to you both. And Tom, first time on the sofa. Nice to have you. Thanks for having me. So day job, you had a production development at BBC Studios. That's right. So you've got your membership. That's all sorted. Who's going to be your plus one? I was going to bring Mira Kumar with me. Okay. Yes. She and I worked on a show for Love and Radio together and she's just started producing a really creative video project called Move Over Mother Teresa. But mostly because kind of like the mum in Mean Girls, she keeps me young. So, yeah, that's who I'm bringing. Welcome back to the club, Media Rights Tower.

1:24Conlon, hello. Hello. How are you? All right. Are you sad not to be at Cannes? A little bit. A little bit. It's great when you get there and it's always really good, but my liver is probably relieved that I'm not. Yes, yes, I can imagine. So who would you like to add to the club roles this week? Well, I'd like to add Stu Rogers, who is the CEO of a relatively new app called Spread. And so you follow other people and you think, oh, my God, another social media app for me to be on and post on. But you don't make a you don't have to comment. You just share the things that you are reading. So it's basically interesting people sharing interesting things.

2:03But what it is quite good, well, what it's particularly good at as well is verifying that you are human. And that's obviously valuable to publishers because that's valuable to advertisers. So in return for you reading and verifying that you're human, as a consumer, you will get to read articles that might be behind a paywall. Oh, OK. So you don't have to subscribe. You can get to read those things. In return, then the publishers can say, well, you know, that's a real life human being reading this. Hey, advertiser, can I have a bit more money? Which in this sort of growing world of AI slop is valuable.

2:41It's also valuable for journalists as well, because people are reading things that you are curating. They're following what you're interested in. So it's an interesting business model that might help publishers. One worth having a look at. Okay, first story of the week. The headline in The Hollywood Reporter, I think, says it all. Creator economy eats TV's lunch at Cannes Confab. Sorry, this is MIPCOM, the annual event in Cannes for the international TV markets where they buy and sell shows. But the big news was that it's sort of YouTube's first sort of major year in attendance. Yeah. What impact have they had?

3:18Well, I think everyone was calling it a sort of a tipping point because we are moving into the era of the creator economy. and basically a lot of companies with existing formats are going, hmm, this would be great if we can get creators on board, revive the format in some way, take it onto YouTube, we will test it out, we've got a new audience, and they can harness the power of and the eyeballs that are going the creator's way. So it's an interesting time. The dynamic, the power base is shifting, it seems. I mean, that's quite mad, isn't it? where kind of in effect broadcast sometimes your broadcasters are saying the way to reach large numbers of people is to individuals exactly but again it comes back to the uh in a way as the creator you're being rewarded for your work um and you're bringing something new and fresh to it you'll bring your creativity to it um and reviving you know an old format or an existing bit of ip so it's quite a clever marrying of the two and it's down to the power of the individual and how they cut through it.

4:27It's the whole way things are going whether it's in property or cars, it's direct to consumer and so this is sort of telly's take at the moment on that in the same way that the independent TV producers with the mavericks of their generation. Tom, should Mr Beast reboot Family Fortunes? Is that what we're looking towards? Potentially, sure. Cool. I was sort of doing my best to follow a lot of the coverage coming out and then got completely distracted by news about the Magic 8 Ball series. So that's what kind of drew most of the focus of my attention. Yeah. So this is obviously this is the place where brands like to sell.

5:07Everyone's selling IP of some sort. I think this is Mattel selling access to the Magic 8 Ball. What is the format? That's precisely, precisely. I think I only recently came to horror about sort of four or five years ago. And now I have fallen very far down that rabbit hole. So anything that fills a kind of weapons shaped void in my heart will do me. So long as it's surreal and doesn't make sense. So is that so magic ball with a dark edge? It's M. Night Shyamalan. Oh, right. Who's going to be. And I forget the name of the collaborator that's working on it. But I think that it's the ball. It's deciding your decisions.

5:48I mean, who knows? What I love is there would have been a brand meeting at Mattel HQ. Absolutely. The brand manager of Magic 8 Ball is like, I think the 8 Ball is a much happier person and shouldn't be so nasty. Exactly. Tara, Sony Pictures TV chair Keith Ligoy had some interesting things to say, kind of touching on IP, didn't he? Is this to do with anime? Yeah. Yeah. Which is a big growth area, isn't it? But again, and it's very popular with a young audience. And I think that's what the big existing legacy heritage, you know, broadcasters networks are trying to do is how can we tap into this younger generation?

6:29Because, you know, all the graphs are showing that they're spending their spare time on TikTok. They're spending their spare time on short form. and this is a genre which they can get into and um own the rights to and exploit um and hopefully get some of those magic younger yeah anime and video games they were sort of saying uh everything is very much ip driven like this there's sort of scripting in hollywood spec scripts aren't such a thing people are coming with ip obviously big movies like minecraft have have done well and it's not quite anime but sort of k-pop demon hunters all of that side's done done really well yeah and he was sort of saying that the heritage ip things like um marvel um less important uh and sony have maybe got access to a lot of new funky and more interesting stuff for young people yeah absolutely and and i mean gaming is so big and there's so you know it's worth billions um and is often underrated and there's some fantastic creativity within that sector.

7:32And if that can be, you know, brought into other areas and this sort of cross-genre, cross-platform, you know, trend that's going on, you know, I think it can only be a good thing. Tom, is it a shame that everything has to be IP-driven? I'm a video game fan myself, so probably not going to give the most unbiased answer. but the thing that when I was kind of reading about that news the thing that stood out to me there's a wonderful writer at Bloomberg Ashley Carman who's talked about Twitch being the next kind of goldmine if you like for podcasters it makes you think about gamers like Critical Role who start live streaming tabletop versions of Dungeons and Dragons and it becomes a hugely successful YouTube and Twitch show and a successful podcast network.

8:24And then that in turn becomes an animated series on Amazon Prime. And I actually quite like the way that really niche fandoms can find an audience and just grow and grow and grow. And it kind of makes you think that the audiences for a lot of very genre fiction podcasts are quite niche sometimes, but extremely dedicated. And if you could build on that fandom to kind of give those creators more opportunities to, I just, I think that's fascinating. So I'm quite excited. And it was Sony own Crunchyroll, which is quite a genre specific streamer. So they've got probably a lot of knowledge coming through about what people interested in.

9:05I think some of the Demon Hunter stuff started off in that place too. Any video game you think should be next on the list to be converted? Do we have like a Baldur's Gate TV series? I would watch that for season after season. The nerdy are the better. I mean, there's a lot of IP still to cover. Right. I also have video games bigger than movies. I mean, it's as a sector. Elsewhere in the streaming world, Netflix have struck a deal with Spotify to host some of their original podcasts on their platform. Thomas, how times have changed. what was once an audio app is doing syndication deals with a streamer what have they all said why are they all having a party together yeah uh it's interesting so obviously um netflix i think has dabbled in acquiring a couple of youtube shows here and there but it's quite um i would say piecemeal if you're being unkind strategic if you're being kind um things like miss rachel Exactly.

10:10And it feels like they've been testing the waters with those programs and obviously have been pleased enough with the results that I think the partnership with the Ringer is a really sensible one. The quality of the videos that are being shot for Ringer and Spotify podcasts. I'm curious what motivated Spotify to do it. Obviously, they're trying to build video on their platform. I'm interested to see how this decision aligns with that goal of theirs. But fundamentally, I think the thing that interests me most about this is I was maybe a bit wary of the sort of rush to video in the last kind of year or two.

10:52And I was trying to work out why. And I think it's because it feels like there's a little bit of instability about purely ad supported programming. And that's what made me nervous that the video is not exploring a different model. It's just trying a new way to get more ads onto the same program. But this feels really unique because it's a licensing model, which is a different revenue stream. And so that feels like it could be quite exciting. We'll see where it goes. And also part of the news is that The Ringer's video content will come off YouTube. Right. Which is quite a brave thing. And if you read what the fans are saying of The Ringer, they are unhappy, unsurprisingly, that it's coming off YouTube.

11:33And is it sort of, it's the gang Spotify have teamed up with Netflix because YouTube is the enemy for both. Do you think that's sustainable, Tara? Well, that's the holy grail that everyone's looking for, isn't it? How can they make money from YouTube? And if they've figured out that they can't, then why not make it from another platform? You know, that's maybe so that, you know, YouTube realizes it's not the only game in town. There are other platforms, you know, Substack, etc. There are more of them out there. And perhaps this is the way we're going to see it. These partnerships, this way of leveraging different revenue streams, which because YouTube, can't be made to work if there's obviously you know branded content that's another another route but there's only so many of those retail pounds around so perhaps these kind of strategic partnerships are a way of making some more money um i was looking at looking at the shows and sort of like sports reviews like sort of tv companion type shows is it basically old bbc3 is that what netflix have recreated bbc3 of old um do you think it's a good a good fit for them or does Netflix not really care?

12:47Like it's all just video. It's all just stuff on the system. If people like it, it'll surface it for them. Well, I don't know. I mean, the visualized podcast, I mean, look at, you know, Traitor's Uncloaked, celebrity Traitor's Uncloaked as it is at the moment. You know, people are just getting more used to that idea. And it's, you know, it's a form of original programming. It's a nursery slope. In the same way, the BBC Three was a nursery slope for a lot of talent. It is, you know, a way of bringing on new talent in a slightly different way on a different platform so i can see you know the the attraction there uh boob studios you've made some have you made some shows for netflix for your shows yeah what are they like to to work with lovely um really clear god this is such a boring way to answer but really clear briefs about what kind of stuff works for them um what they like to see in the creative what the delivery spec is it's it's small simple things but it just means you can actually focus on the production rather than trying to kind of cover all your bases instead of know what they want exactly right um and the show that we made for them the big pitch um it just won a signal award nothing to do with me it's it's uh all the team um pete and mabel and becky uh but it was their first uh as far as i can tell um fully visualized podcast that wasn't anchored around a specific show it's a fully original format that we filmed for them in such a way that if they want to distribute it on youtube which is currently what they're doing it's obviously ready but it's quality enough that it could be brought onto the platform if needed it has an rss distribution for the audio so it's a really flexible piece of content that they can use however they like do you think they will open floodgates to to any sort of video podcast or anything of quality does that be a good thing for them or are they uh do you think actually curating that a bit is is more up their street i have a feeling they'll curate for a while longer um it's a point of distinction for them between what's on netflix and what's on youtube and i think in earning schools they've been very spiky about some of the you know video content that's on YouTube because they want to emphasize a point of distinction so I imagine if we see more of this types of partnership they will be network led to begin with there's a reason they went with the ringer I don't know who's next if it's a Pushkin or a Slate or you know it could be BBC Studios all manner of networks and then I think once they've seen the success of it they might think about opening it to more user-generated content if it meets a certain threshold i'm happy to go into exclusive negotiations exactly to go on netflix you know i'm open to that but i'm open exactly uh tara i also saw another sort of streaming deal this time between uk tv and channel four uh this is quite interesting so uk tv are gonna put you their streaming service or the content from it on channel four streaming service Yeah, again, there's more of these tie-ups and people are just, I think, trying things, seeing how they can, you know, leverage more revenue streams, find new revenue streams and find additionality and also work together in partnership.

16:13You know, Lisa and Andy were saying, you know, people should work together. They should partner more. And, you know, you've seen it with ITVX and Disney as well. So I think people are trying these different things. they're dipping their toe in the water of partnerships and putting themselves on different platforms and seeing how it goes. I mean, obviously you can share some various functions then. UKTV, which is BBC's commercial arm, I think Channel 4 sell their ads on the linear TV already. So there's, I think, a link there. And it's going to appear a bit like separate streaming services appear in Amazon channels, where you've got like different options, but I'm sure they'll absorb the content into the Channel 4 streaming service as well.

17:02Slightly odd that like the BBC's The Office will now go on Channel 4's streaming service via UK TV. Yeah, that is kind of the way of the world. You could just find anything on anywhere these days, practically apart from, you know, first run or original sort of BBC content. But that's, I think people just expect it. It's that phrase that, you know, often repeated phrase about meeting the viewer where they are as well as trying to save money in some way shape or form and and find viewers find more money and save money i mean tom consumers haven't got a chance of knowing where anything is after that you've got to just type like the office which streaming service to work out where the hell these things are absolutely i think uh probably the most visit visited app in our household is just watch just to like see where everything is and where we can find it um but it is interesting i think uh one of the themes that seemed like it came through from mipcom this year as well as kind of creator-led was more collaboration rather than kind of ring fencing content exactly like you were saying um and not to bring everything back to audio but i'm kind of interested to see you know you can get a sky and netflix bundle will you get a pushkin plus and slate plus subscription stuff starting to be bundled together um wondering you know when when their subscription was a going concern uh i'm really interested in that because ultimately i think it shares more great content with listeners and actually it benefits us all not to be too pollyanna-ish about it to be more collaborative with other publishers and networks but even like the talk about like a netflix spotify dual subscription like is actually a direction that we might that we might see yeah well there's so much subscription fatigue you know i'm constantly going through and cancelling subscriptions which i still didn't realize my children signed us up to so uh you know any kind of consolidation of those subs you know although unfortunately that would probably mean job cuts uh for people i think you know there are inevitably periods of consolidation um and there will be come a time you know when there's more bottled packages of the subscriptions there just has to be because we're so overwhelmed as consumers i think even marketing cut through as well it's very difficult for anything to be truly standalone and you know you as a you uk tv streaming service is not one of the you know it's not bbc iplayer it's not itvx but it's probably the fifth biggest so it's not like it's a small small tiny one uh just before the break the daily email has said it's doubling down on original content on tiktok and instagram um tara this is the dmg new media team they're really putting a lot of effort into creating these these new platforms yeah i think i mean again it's about uh meeting viewers where they are and um you know realizing that i mean short form video content every publisher is getting into it but how how can we tailor that but also you know get some of that branded content money um and i think the daily mail one one of them is a to do with mcdonald's if i remember rightly with that keeping your editorial integrity obviously is a key part of this it's not just the printed word anymore of course and it's not in publishing it's video as well there are so many channels where you can now get your stories out on um it would you know it's just having the money which they do have to, you know, invest in those rather than the printed word, you know.

20:39A lot of publishers are doing it, you know, Guardian, etc. OK, when we return, we'll find out what BBC Studios is up to. See you in a sec.

20:54Hello, Media Club listeners. Patrick here from Podcast Discovery, the podcast marketing company, where this week we've been thinking about making money. What do revenue streams look like for podcasts in 2021? video makes for an exciting new form of income more expensive to make than audio yes but much cheaper than traditional TV but how do you make a podcast that's worth watching without just making a TV show to find out what we could do for your show head to podcastdiscovery.com that's podcastdiscovery.com so if you've been watching our video this week have you noticed anything different it might look like our regular set and is our regular set, but it's in a different location because our friends at Podshop Studios, where we record the show, have duplicated this main set across their two buildings.

21:44There's such demand for it. And it looks incredibly similar. I'm not sure I would have noticed the difference if I was watching the video that you're looking at. And this new studio is around the corner from the old one in Shoreditch. And as well as this look, there's a variety of other looks and feels that could work for your podcast or your production, ranging from a mid-century living room to a cosy library, or even recording where I am right now. All professionally designed and fully equipped for broadcast quality video recording. You can check them out at podshoponline.co.uk and they're offering Media Club listeners 25 % off your first booking so you can come and experience it for yourself.

22:28Just use the code MEDIACLUB on their website at podshaponline.co.uk. Welcome back. Here's some stories we've been talking about in the club this week. John Oliver has used his HBO Sky show to slam the appointment of Barry Weiss to head up CBS News and the wider changes to appease the Trump administration. Laying into her background in opinion rather than reporting, Oliver still had to hold up his hands to reflect that his show is also not the news. but then he doesn't run it. Ad spend has dropped in audio and out of home, according to the media leader. This is despite the fact advertisers want more attribution and that podcasts have never had it so good.

23:08The smart money would be to invest in, I don't know, a media savvy audience with a direct to consumer proposition. You know where we are. And over 400 UK podcasting and audio businesses have signed an open letter to the UK government demanding recognition in the creative industry strategy. This is part of Audio UK's campaign, which could lead to funding for IP development or access to tax relief. You can find out about all of our stories in our substack. It's free to sign up. It will only take you one sec. Just go to themediaclub.com. That's themediaclub.com. You'll also get a copy of Briefed on a Monday morning, which tells you everything that's happening in all the other media podcasts.

23:50Apparently there are some. my guest is still with me hello Tom BBC Studios now quite a big part of the commercial audio sector it's always a strange kind of combination we're talking about UK TV earlier also owned by the BBC do you see yourselves as a commercial audio provider or have you still got all of that BBC public service connection best of both obviously No, this will be my first time at the BBC. I've been there about 18 months, and I think I represent maybe half of our staff and the other half are kind of long-time BBC public service journalists, producers, reporters. I think it's a really good mix.

24:40One of my colleagues in the US, Annie, she's our exec editor out there. She joined from Pineapple Street, which is one of my favorite US production companies. Before that, she was at the New York Times. So it's like a real mix of kind of reporting, nows and commercial sensibility. In terms of the work we do, it kind of reflects that balance as well. So we make programs for public service. Still, we work very closely together with them. But a lot of our focus is on third-party commercial platforms, particularly in the US. Netflix, we've talked a little bit about. There's iHeart, there's Disney, a bunch of shows that we can't announce just yet, but for big publishers and broadcasters in the US, North America, Australia.

25:34Is the US where the key opportunity is or is it where the money is? Certainly from the little I know about the ad side of the business, the rates and advertising market in the US seems to be a lot stronger. But I think especially for the kind of purpose and function that we have as BBC Studios, we're trying to make programs that can bring revenue back to public service so that they can in turn kind of continue to commission radio programs, you know, support the license fee, that kind of thing. So BBC listeners here in the UK, if they've got great ears, might have noticed like some brief pauses in some BBC programmes like Just a Minute, where international audiences may get ads.

26:19I see. Yes, that's right. So the work that we do at BBC Studios is sort of split into two halves. The bit that I work in is the production services arm, the distribution side of the business run by Lou and Greg and a fantastic team over there. they're responsible for monetizing all BBC programs outside of the UK. It's mostly the US and North America, but they have ad deals with local partners in Australia and Japan and Europe and all around the world. So hopefully for UK listeners, most people might not notice the kind of second or two that we have in there. But there's a show I'm thinking of that we worked really closely, actually, with public service and distribution on.

27:12It's called The Global Story. That very much is set up as a show of two halves, but it shouldn't sound like it to the uninitiated. And if you're listening in the UK, obviously you won't hear any ads in that. But certainly in the US and around the world, it's really excellent. The team have done such a phenomenal job on it. I was interested, even getting commercial podcasts, sometimes not all ad breaks are filled and not all filled in every territory. It is quite a skill to make it sound like it's seamless and that it isn't missing an ad break. But we've executed it flawlessly, didn't you say? Yeah.

27:47So Melvin Bragg is retiring from In Our Time. Very successful show, both radio and podcasts. Are you picking his successor? Are you looking at who will jump into that seat? Not me personally. but there's a very, very senior and experienced editorial team that are kind of thinking about the future of the show once Melvin finishes his tenure on the programme. An influencer, so maybe a TikTok influencer. Yeah, I mean, if Mr Beast is available. Or maybe someone from the Traitors, perhaps. I haven't even crossed my mind. Kate Garraway. Stephen Fry. Stephen Fry. by Nick Muhammad. Wouldn't he be good?

28:32Yes. It's always interesting. I'm sure lots of people who are listening have watched Celebrity Traitors. No spoilers. We won't spoil it if you haven't caught up this week. It's amazing how some, even the famous celebrities, you do see a different side of them and just think they're on the rise. And Nick Muhammad is a very successful actor. I think a lot of attention will be brought to him. Yeah, and he's in Slow Horses at the moment as well. So, you know, he's definitely on the rise. And I think that's true because I think the interesting thing is the dynamic once they leave the castle is interesting.

29:05Already people are going, you know, Alan Carr and Paloma, you know, what's happening there? I won't say anything else as to who might or might not. But there's because they're going to see each other again on the circuit, you know, in the in the general public one. They don't have to necessarily see each other again except at Tracer's reunions. But the dynamic between them and some of them, if they're taking it personally, and I think some of them might be, they've got to see each other again out on the showbiz circuit and, you know, are they going to be on, say, Jonathan Ross's show, you know, or something like that.

29:39So that's really interesting. And then seeing, you know, they're having fun with it, aren't they? There's sort of traitor's tropes which are coming out, you know, there's sort of the VTs are becoming, you know, even more kind of daft and sort of baroque. Yeah, there's one with, I won't mean any spoilers, but there's a dartboard involved. It's like, what's it going to be next? like some gentle taxidermy that they're doing in their rooms. I don't know. But there's all these little traitor's tropes which are coming in. I think they're having quite a bit of knowing fun and I think maybe auditioning for other shows.

30:13I can see Celia being a Vera or Jonathan Ross doing a traitor's in one of the other territories. He's wearing Claudia's clothes. I think it can be quite dangerous though, can't it? I mean, you have your celebrity persona and that can be sort of a well-oiled machine because of just the thing that you do. And it's very easy to slip into your personality shifting that the public might not like. My favourite aspect of watching it is just the level of self-confidence, you know, the predictions. It's like, no, I've got it. And all of these people have obviously watched the programme before. I just I love it.

30:49It's it's such relaxing TV. Jonathan Ross, I think this week, or some press about him basically warning celebrities not to do it because it's quite difficult. And I think he took to Twitter to say, I wasn't saying people shouldn't do it, just that it's really, really hard, particularly if you're a traitor. Yeah, absolutely. Because people see a side of you and there are some people who can laugh that off with deflection, with comedy. You know, I mean, the two Joes, I would love to see a show with the two of them on. But, you know, we all want to be liked. Celebrities want to be liked and to be portraying a character who is not likable in a drama.

31:30That's fine. But when you're playing the game and if people think that you are good at deception, then this carefully crafted persona in some people's cases, not all of them, may well disappear. And there must just be PRs maybe in future. Who knows what's going to happen in the rest of the series just going, oh, don't do that, don't do that. Because it's just them. It's very, very revealing. I did enjoy Kate Garraway saying sort of over and over again, I'm just an old ham. I'm just an old ham. Amazing, amazing. Okay, just enough time for the Audio Network Media Quiz.

32:07The quiz is called In a World. Now, you can't move for post-apocalyptic dramas these days. So producer Matt thought we should get in on the action with a series of treatments based on three more media stories from the past seven days. You simply have to define the story from the epic world building monologue. Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, God, indeed. And once again, Alex Audio Network has sprinkled glitter on producer Matt's quite frankly turd of a brief and created a playlist of music to score today's game. It's the best of three. So buzz in with your names if you know the story. So Tara, you will say.

32:47Tara. And Thomas, you will say. Tom. Let's play In a World. In a world where government is run by podcast, one man and his many cats decide to hang up their headphones. I should absolutely know this and I don't have a clue. Oh, who's it? He's just finished. Someone's just finished. Oh, Mark Maron. Tom, Tom, Tom. Yes. Sorry. Sorry, I should have said my name. Who was it, Tom? Mark Maron's recorded his last episode, I think, with President Obama, which is quite the flex. I can't remember how many years the show's been running. Seemingly sort of forever. I think there's been nearly 1 ,700 episodes, which is pretty good going for any show.

33:29and maybe not a great surprise that he's finally said, I don't want to do this anymore. We found our new Melvin. Oh, good work. Obama is up now if you want to watch it or listen to it. Interestingly, it was actually, it's on his channels, but the video lives on Barack Obama's channel. Gunner's YouTube channel. That's a good deal. Yeah, very good deal. Okay, here's apocalypse number two. In a world where commercial radio is in its ascendance, one woman also hangs up her headphones. Oh, who's it from Kiss? Tara. Tara, yeah. I forgot my own name. It's been a long day. Yeah, from Kiss? Yes, this is Rebecca Frank, who was Kiss's network content director, is moving on.

34:22Any Kiss? Are you either Kiss or Kisstery listeners? No. Maybe that's the challenge. Kisstery, interestingly, often as big as Kiss, sometimes bigger than Kiss. And interestingly, how these brands evolve and change over time. Okay, one more to go. Hang in there. In a world where live broadcast comedy has seemingly been outlawed, one American dares to dream. His dream that comedians may once again enjoy the thrill of live performances on UK TV. Oh, Tara. Yes. So this is Saturday Night Live. Is it Jimmy Fallon? Yes. Saying that basically that SNL is, you know, top dog and, you know, the British version, obviously, which is coming out on Sky, which I can't wait to see and see which comedians are on there.

35:13You know, that's kind of the end game. That's the ultimate. Yeah, he was sort of saying, like, people should see it as a destination rather than just not like a springboard to something else. I think it's quite hard as well though now because there are obviously a lot of creators out there some brilliant ones like Josh Berry, George Lewis people like that who are doing great gigs doing great tours but they're great on Instagram or TikTok so it's that feeling of you know, influencers creators, whatever is TV an add-on. That's how some of them perhaps feeling, maybe. Whereas actually, you know, it's the destination, as Jimmy was saying.

35:58And I mean, SNL has a great history. And yeah, I can't wait to see how it does over here. Do you think... By the way, I didn't mean that that's what those two were thinking, that George and Josh, because they are brilliant, you know, but it's just that they don't necessarily need to do that anymore when they have this direct-to-consumer relationship. But, you know, something like being part of a big show like that, being part of a big gang, you know, is great telly. It's quite a short run. I think it's only sort of initially a few episodes. Obviously, a lot of heritage from America. Do you think it will drive an audience or it's a bit of sort of stunt commissioning?

36:37It's interesting. I've never watched the US version of the show a huge amount. you see little clips here and there but i would guess it depends on how brilliant and uh sort of specific the sketches feel those are always the things that have resonated with me so i think it could do easily yes i suppose and it's if it's uh if it's short run goes well i'm sure they will recommission yeah exactly i mean it's it obviously is much more in the spotlight now those late night American shows because of what happened with, you know, with Jimmy Kimmel. So it's interesting. Do they transfer? Can they ever transfer?

37:16Obviously, we bring a British sort of cultural sensibility to it. But I hope it works because, you know, the good thing is with, you know, Last One Laughing, comedy is in the spotlight more quite rightly. so investing in that and growing comedians I think is a good thing whatever happens to it, I wish it all success I would definitely give Sky something that will do well on YouTube and do well on social as well, it would drive a lot of traffic to imagine what they're doing Yeah Okay, I think that just makes you the winner, Tara Oh, thank you very much Tom, you have to work harder next time I apologise And as your prize you get to try and negotiate a selection of cross-platform deals for the media.

38:02Okay, right. On the case, what percentage do I get? For you, 10%. Thank you to Tara and Thomas. And also thanks to Alex for their support for today's music at Audio Network. It's the sort of thing that they can do for you as well. Just head to audionetwork.com and send them your briefs. So before we go, Tom, where can people keep up with your work? and what everyone at BBC Studios is doing? Good question. Most of us are on LinkedIn. I dabble occasionally with Blue Sky, but LinkedIn's probably the best place. Excellent, Tara. How long have you got? Blue Sky, Guardian, LinkedIn, oh God, RTS. You name it, I'm on it.

38:46Cross-platform. Cross-platform, exactly. Netflix to be announced. Yeah, I actually have a Netflix hat though. I was told off by a few people that I keep wearing a Netflix baseball hat. Have I got a collaboration with them? No, it's just a really good, nice hat. Not yet. Still time. Still time. And thank you for listening and watching as well. My name is Matt Deegan. The producer is Matt Hill. It was a Rethink Audio production with video support from Podcast Discovery. We'll see you next week.

39:22So retrospectors, which historical events are we ticking off on this week's run of Today in History. On Monday, the anniversary of the day Magic Johnson made an announcement that shocked America. On Tuesday, we discovered that in the early days Tom and Jerry were a cat and a dog. On Wednesday, spend a penny at London's first public toilets for women. On Thursday, the day Malcolm X came to Smetherg. And on Friday, the cool true story behind cool runnings. That's Today in History with The Retrospectors. 10 minutes each weekday, wherever you get your podcasts.