Movado Brand president Margot Grinberg on reintroducing a legacy watch company to younger shoppers

0:06Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast. I'm your host, Cale Guthrie-Weissman, the editor-in-chief here at Modern Retail. Today, we go into the world of watches. I spoke with Margot Grinberg, the president of the Movado brand, as well as the SVP of e-commerce for the parent company Movado Group. We chatted about the century-old brands' digital growth, as well as the marketing and demographic shifts that watch brands as a whole are making. Also, just a slight correction at the top. In this conversation, I refer to a recent article in the publication Payments with Movado's chief technology officer.

0:41During this conversation, I cite a stat that said that half of Movado's digital payments are buy now, pay later. Not quite true. What I meant to say was that half of them are alternative payments, which obviously includes BNPL, but also has many other facets as well. So keep that in mind when listening. But otherwise, enjoy the show. Thanks for listening.

1:05Margot, how are you doing? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. I'm excited to dive into this. So let's start with you because you've been at Movado for a while now. And correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a family affair, right? It is. I've been at Movado Group almost 10 years. It'll be 10 years this fall. And my father is currently the CEO and chairman of the company. And Movado Group was founded by my grandfather. So it is definitely a family affair. Wow. And so, you know, this latest title where you're the president of the Movado brand, the SVP of e-commerce, that's only about a year old.

1:39Is that correct? Yes. I took on the role of running the Movado brand about a year ago, a little over a year ago. I have been running a part of our e-commerce businesses for the last four years, both the e-commerce side as well as the digital marketing side. And so just got elevated within that role as well. Got it. So when you started about nine and a half years ago or whatever, what has your overall evolution of working with the family company been? So I started as a merchandising analyst for our licensed brand portfolio. It was a really great kind of sink your teeth in, understand how the watch category works, how product development works, how we think about building assortments.

2:21Spent almost two years in that role and then moved into sales. So I got a really good understanding of how, you know, our distribution works as a company, specifically within North America, given that I'm based here. And then I spent a little bit of time working on two Fashion Watch brand acquisitions we did. I actually spent the first few years of my career in investment banking. So I had a little bit of background on M &A. And so that was a really interesting kind of point in my career. And then for the four years after that, I really spent my time in digital and digital marketing. We had hired a chief digital officer, and he really mentored me.

2:58And I got an opportunity to really focus on the growth of our digital businesses, which at the time when I had started working for him were quite small. And it was just about a year ago that I took over the Movado brand. And it's been a really fun and exciting adventure. Amazing. So could you give, because Movado has been around for a while, But you mentioned the acquisitions, and I feel like over the last half decade, acquisitions have really helped jumpstart some things at the company or grow some ends of the business. So can you just, A, begin with the overall for people who don't know how Movado started and then talk about some of the brands you either acquired or you licensed with?

3:33Because I think that that part's really interesting to understand how the overall business works. Yeah, absolutely. So Movado Group is a watch and jewelry company. The Movado brand itself was actually started in 1881 in Switzerland by a 19-year-old entrepreneur. It's been through many evolutions, obviously, since 1881. And it was acquired ultimately by my grandfather. It was actually the second brand he acquired, and that is kind of what ultimately formed Movado Group. He was actually a watch distributor in North America prior to that and started acquiring brands. He started with a brand called Concord, later acquired Movado.

4:10We also acquired a higher-end Swiss watch brand called E-Bell. And then the acquisitions that I referenced in part of my career were actually fashion watch brands, MVMT or Movement, and Olivia Burton, which is a women's fashion watch brand based in London. And that makes up our own brand portfolio. And then we also have a licensing portfolio where we are fortunate enough to partner with global, iconic fashion brands. And we work with Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein, Lacoste, Coach, and Hugo Boss. Got it. And so I feel like when the movement acquisition happened, that was a really pivotal point for Movado, at least in me reading the headlines, just in terms of how what was going on the watch market.

4:50That was right around when Apple came out with its Apple Watch and everyone's wondering what's going to happen to the older brands. And it seems like you guys made a pretty smart decision and that sort of changed the trajectory. Would you say that that's true? Yeah, I think, you know, acquiring movement was a really, you know, important part of our story. I think we got to learn a lot about digitally native brands, which obviously most of our brands are not digitally native. And it helped, I think, accelerate our overall digital growth as a company and our focus on that part. I also think, you know, at the time, as you kind of mentioned, Apple was, you know, continuing to really grow its watch business.

5:26Still is a huge watch company today. And I think for us, it was really about acquiring brands that focus on that traditional watch category. We really are believers in what we do. Um, we have, you know, dabbled, I would say, and have had some strong business in the, you know, smartwatch category at a certain point, but we really prefer and focus on what, what we know we're really good at and what we really enjoy, which is the traditional watches across, you know, anything from fashion to luxury. So when Movado brand that it means Movado as a brand, it also means movement and also means Olivia Burton.

6:02Is that correct? So Movado brand and Olivia Burton and Movement are all separate brands. Okay. We operate them all, you know, somewhat independently inside of the company. Movado is one of our largest brands. It's one of our Swiss brands. And, you know, it's just a portfolio to kind of reach different customers and have different kind of types of products to offer consumers across their life cycle with purchasing watches. Got it. So pretty much you're overseeing all things that say Movado, as well as the overall e-commerce for all the other brands. Is that correct? Yes, exactly. All right. So when you joined a year ago, what was, and I ask a lot of people this, and it's a big question, but go wherever you want with this.

6:41But what was your mandate? What were you intent on doing or what needed to be changed? Yeah, I think we were at a point where, and I kind of had started working on some stuff prior to fully taking on the role officially. But I think we were at a point where we wanted to make sure we continue to keep Movado brand exciting to the next generation of watch wearers and to our current consumers as well. And so I think the mandate was how do we continue to evolve the brand, not, you know, radicalize or change it, but just evolve it for the future and give it a little bit of a refresh and get it back and exciting it into people's, you know, minds and hearts.

7:17Got it. And so what, how, how are you doing that? So this past fall, we launched a new campaign. And with that, we redid our logo, how we shoot photography, colors, all of those elements of the brand, the visual ones that we can, you know, impact, you know, quickly and effectively. We're in the process of redesigning our packaging and our fixturing for all of our wholesale channels. And we have some really exciting stuff that I can't quite talk about that we're working on that will come to life this fall that I think will really bring it all together. How much of this, because watch, you know, watches have remained relatively not, I'm sure you maybe will disagree with me, but they've remained kind of the same product for centuries now, in the sense that, you know, they keep time, people keep them on their hands, and they look nice.

8:01But when you're talking about evolving a brand, how much of it is product innovation as opposed to marketing or packaging innovation? I think it all really comes together. But I think in, you know, today's world, a lot of it is about marketing and how you're communicating to customers. And how I think in the watch category in particular, it's often, especially in a brand of Movado, which is, you know, considered accessible luxury, slightly elevated price point, it's often marking a moment. It's a gift. It's a big purchase that you're making for yourself if you're self-purchasing. And so there's a big emotional connection to it.

8:32And so how you tell that story and get customers to emotionally connect with your brand is what will really make them ultimately purchase when they are in market. You know, obviously, innovation in the product is key, right? making sure that you're making product that is for the future and what customers want to be wearing now and what they'll want to be wearing three years from now, especially when you're investing in higher price point product. So it's really a mixture of both. But I think right now we're extra focused on making sure our storytelling and our marketing and how we communicate to our customers is really building on that longevity that they'll have and the connection they'll have with the brand.

9:08And what is watches, at least from an observer's eye, it seems like it's doing as a category doing quite well. It's something that seems to me, though, tell me if you disagree with this, more or less, we're not in a recession, but kind of recession-proof. People seem to like watches. And it seems to be something that, especially if you look at the resale markets, if you talk to platforms like eBay, they always say that they're focusing on more luxury resold watches. So how has the messaging or the way you're talking to customers changed? What have you changed and what are the customers looking for in terms of how you market them as a premium watch brand?

9:48Yeah, our bread and butter for the Movado brand is between 500 and 3000. So we're not as high end as probably the recessionary proof luxury brands and that resale market that you're kind of referencing. So I think, you know, for us, it's really about making our brand and our a product so desirable that when your wallet is a little bit more constrained and you do have that disposable income to make a purchase that you're choosing it to be us. And you're choosing it because we offer great design, great quality for the price that you're paying. We're offering Swiss made watches in that price range.

10:24And then you just really connect with the brand and what we stand for and how we present ourselves. Got it. And so let's talk about the e-commerce side of things, because that's been another big part. So how has the e-commerce channel shifted over the years? How does it compare to the other revenue streams? Yeah, e-com has been a big growing part of our business. And we still do a lot of business in store. We really are believers in that omni-channel experience, right? We want you to love our brands and buy our products wherever you feel most comfortable. I think the exciting thing about e-com too, is if you ask people even like five, 10 years ago, no one thought that they would spend$500,$1 ,000,$1 ,500 on a watch online.

11:05And now there's very little barrier to that, right? I think the world's gotten easier with, you know, everyone offers free returns and, you know, AI and allowing people to see what it could look like on your wrist. And there's so many new elements that you can offer consumers from an e-commerce experience that we didn't even have, you know, five, 10 years ago. But we really invested in building out a lot of that stuff and better photography, better storytelling online, you know, fast delivery, all of those things that you're looking for, especially when you're spending$1 ,000 plus online. And so, you know, it's been such a fun journey because you also get this experience to really get to know your consumer on a one-to-one level that you can't when you're selling through wholesale channels because you're selling it into someone who's selling it and you have no idea any information about who's really wearing your watch other than getting like general demographic information about that retailer.

11:54Here you really get to get this one-on-one kind of relationship with your consumer. you get to get feedback from them through reviews, through social media. And so it's been a really great, you know, journey for us to really be able to know how can we be better as a brand? How can we make better watches for our consumers too? So what tangibly has changed in terms of how e-commerce looks, or at least the own sites, the DTC site? So is it just that the photography is better and, you know, it's a more seamless transactional experience where people, you know, How has that changed so that, you know, the overall e-com business has grown and people are going more to your site?

12:35Yeah, I think those are for sure a part of it. But it's also, you know, we've improved our technology over time and invested in more platforms, etc. But also, it's just like even little things like we offer, you know, you can buy extended warranty on our website. We offer pay over time through a firm. You know, all of those little things that you can add to make, you know, the experience look better. We added engraving. So, you know, gifting is a huge part of our category. So you can engrave, you know, a gift for a loved one. And so all of those little elements continue to help the consumer and make them want to buy, you know, more frequently and also, you know, feel comfortable buying from us.

13:10We have a trusted, you know, customer service team. We process returns and orders very, very quickly. So, you know, we just want it to feel like a safe, easy place to buy and to get satisfied with your purchase. Yeah, you mentioned Affirm. I was doing some research before this and I found this. and correct me if I'm wrong, if this stats wrong, but I think this sort of jumped out at me. Half of the online transactions came from buy now, pay later. And I think that might be for the entire group. But is that for Movado brand as well? That's a little bit high. I would say it's not quite half, but it's definitely been a, you know, important thing that I think helped, you know, our consumer access our products.

13:46You know, firm is a great company. It's very transparent with its customers. And that's really important to us. So yeah, it's definitely something that a lot of consumers use and I think has become just a huge part of, you know, e-com in general is getting that opportunity to pay over time, especially when you're buying big products. Are there other e-com channels that you're on or that are, you know, specifically big drivers of growth for your watch shoppers? We, you know, play with a lot of the, you know, traditional, all of our wholesale partners were on their websites. We work with Amazon as well.

14:20It really is a, we are really an omni-channel business. We work with a lot of different partners because for us, it's we really want people to be able to access our watches where they feel most comfortable buying. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Can you talk a little about the Amazon part? Because that's something that I know Amazon has been trying to really get more premium brands in. It's an interesting thing where obviously people will look for a watch on Amazon or look for anything on Amazon, but you don't have as much control as the president of this brand. So how do you approach that?

14:52Like, is it, you know, is it just if they're there, we'll set up a presence? Do you only have a certain assortment on there? How does that work? Yeah, we are continuing to evolve our partnership with them. You know, it's obviously a critical e-commerce player in the United States that you can't ignore, and not just in the United States, but globally. And so we continue to figure out what's our best way of working with them. We have different, you know, types of brands that operate very differently across their platform as well as other platforms. And so it's really just kind of seeing how all the puzzle pieces of our different points of distribution fit together.

15:23Got it, got it. Can you talk on the marketing side of things? So you said you did a big sort of brand refresh, a big campaign last year. What, like, describe exactly what the change was. Like, was there a specific story you were trying to tell? Were you trying to reintroduce people to the brand? Like, how did you approach that entire part? Yeah, I think you kind of actually just nailed it when you said reintroduce people to the brand. We really wanted to tell a story about the brand and not just about one key collection or product. to really think of that as laying the groundwork for long-term relationship with the brand.

15:54So we did a campaign, which we referred to as connecting the dots, which was really about sharing the iconic, you know, dot story of Movado. Our iconic watches have a dot at the top, which represents the sun at high noon. It's what we're most known for, as well as we're kind of Movado and Esperanto, excuse me, which is the language that kind of never took off, but it was supposed to be this language universally, we were all going to speak. So it means always in motion. And so we really took those two elements of the sun and always in motion and built a campaign that highlighted our key products that we really believe in to really just tell a brand story and get people to reconnect with the core fundamentals of who we are as a brand, which we'll continue to build on over the course of this year in new and evolved ways.

16:40And what were the channels that was this just everywhere, you know, full campaign, TV, online, etc. Yeah, we really believe in kind of a 360 degree approach that combines both traditional, I would say more traditional forms of media as well as digital. And so we used everything from linear television to YouTube TV, obviously a lot of digital through Meta, Google, also, you know, out of home, we're doing both traditional print and magazines as well as partnering with public publishers on their digital platform. So it was really a full 360 degree approach to get consumers to really see us in a new way.

17:17Okay. So a couple of questions that, but, um, so you mentioned linear TV and you mentioned print, both of which are things that, you know, people try to not forget about, but say that they're dead, which they're not dead, but like, so how do you, how do you, you know, in the marketing environment, everything is trying to be quantifiable and trying to go towards some sort of performance based type of thing. Did you approach it like that? Did you try to have some sort of attribution with these sort of really large scale campaigns that are just about awareness? How did you think about specifically those two channels?

17:49Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is we don't really measure them other than, you know, understanding obviously how many impressions we're getting. But I think a lot of marketers get into trouble when they're trying to measure such direct performance related from one ad or one type of medium when some mediums are meant to build your brand over a long period of time. So I don't expect that when someone opens Vogue and sees our ad that they're going to immediately go and buy a watch, but they're going to open magazines over time and they're going to see our brand. And when they're in market, they're going to remember that they had saw this beautiful ad that we had shot.

18:22Same thing with television. Now with television, we try to air on more channels that we believe people watch live, such as sporting events. So we definitely concentrate our spend there. And when you look at, you know, magazines, yes, they have less circulation, but the circulation they do have is a very engaged circulation. And so you're also able to reach really engaged audiences in different areas when you kind of still focus on some of these traditional forms of media. Yeah, I was talking with someone a few weeks ago, and they pretty much they were talking about linear TV. They love linear TV.

18:52They were buying pretty much remnant inventory throughout the country. And they were saying that like the way that they measured it was essentially looking at share of brand voice. So like they're a mattress company and they had a low share of brand voice, but over six months it increased because they had all these TV spots. Like, have you been looking at that? Is that how you try to quantify that and make it so that the investment is worth it, or at least on a balance sheet is worth it? Absolutely. So we actually do a brand health survey tracker. We do it every six months. So we did it before we started the campaign.

19:24We've done it since and we'll continue to do it with you know, with our continued investments over the year. And we can see the consumer sentiment and awareness evolve over time and improve. And so even though we might not, you might not get a sale that day, you can see that you're getting much more people aware of your brand and much more people excited and desiring your brand. And so from that, we know that we're moving the needle in the right direction, and then we can continue to make our investments from there. So of course, it's important to track, I think, in certain ways, But I think it's just you're not necessarily going to be able to say, oh, I ran that TV ad today.

19:58Now what's my business tomorrow? Yeah. So do you think and this is sort of the next question that I want to ask is like so many connected TV players, namely really Amazon, is trying to say that they are a performance player. If we run an ad, you can put a QR code on our on our commercial and then people will buy. I'm a little bit skeptical, which you don't have to say you're skeptical. But like, do you think that with the ones, the players that are collecting more of the first party data and trying to bring them lower in the funnel, that that's actually working? Or is it still much more of an awareness play?

20:29I think, you know, I think it's a little bit more still an awareness play, but I think there is an ability to get some performance. I also think it depends on what you're selling consumers, right? Like Movado watches are not really an impulsive purchase, right? So you might see an ad on TV, you might see an ad on Instagram, but it's going to take a lot of touches for me to get you to buy one, right? You're also usually going to be need to be in market for a gift or you or, you know, a moment in your life you want to mark with a watch. People, you know, aren't typically going and like, let me go buy a$1 ,000 watch because I saw a TV commercial today.

21:00And so, you know, I love those people, but that's not the average consumer. And so I think for the way that we look at, you know, touches in these channels is really how do you keep bringing people down the funnel, knowing that they're not going to convert every time they see an ad. But I genuinely think that if people are sitting back and watching, you know, consuming content like video content, you know, not necessarily like social media video, but long form video, it tends to be a little bit more of an awareness play. But it's still not at the level of like a linear television, which just has a much broader like you're blasting a huge audience without being so targeted.

21:34There is something about this in any of these things, CTV, YouTube, Amazon Prime, right? You are layering over real data of real consumers and targeting for one-to-one communication. And so it is definitely more performance related than something like Linear or a magazine or a billboard. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I wanted to ask just about overall, because I feel like, you know, I mentioned earlier that, you know, watches seem more, you know, recessionary proof. And you mentioned that that's for the much more higher end brands and you're a little bit more in the middle. But still, would you say there has been a perception shift or a changing target demographic of who is buying more premium watches?

22:18Yeah, I think, you know, everyone said that millennials were never going to buy watches, right? They don't need it to tell time. They had a phone. So, you know, watches were dead after the, you know, cell phone came out, which is far from true, as you can tell. And I think that, you know, people are really looking at watches as investments. And I'm not saying investments that necessarily have to have a real resale value, but investments in, you know, in themselves and how they feel as, you know, it's often marks a moment of achievement and things like that. And so I think, you know, the next generation and we're seeing, you know, millennials are the largest watch consumers today.

22:55And I have no doubt that Gen Z will be the next. And I think that's just a part of, you know, what watches kind of stand for to people, right? They are an accessory that people often have an emotional connection with. And I think it's really hard to break something when there's an emotional piece to it. And how much, like this is something I've been thinking about just because aesthetically, you know, watches have different aesthetics. watches have different looks, different brands have different feels. Do you think there's there is going to be a radical change as we move to different generations in terms of what will be the guiding aesthetic leader for watch design?

23:32If that makes any sense? Like, are you going to be changing your types of designs as you're trying to get people who are between the ages of 15 and 21 or something like that? No, I don't think we're going to change our designs, right? Like we're iconic for a museum dial and that is our bread and butter. It has been for a long time, but I think there's like certain trends within the industry as a whole that, you know, people follow. So I don't think any brand is going to change like what they're iconic for, what they're known for, but you'll see what we're seeing in the industry is watches are tending to get a little bit smaller.