The next era of Pride Month marketing

0:08Melissa Daniels:Hello and welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast, our show that covers the ways the retail industry is changing and modernizing. I'm Special Projects Editor Melissa Daniels. If you've been watching ad campaigns or seeing new collections come out this June, you might have noticed a few Pride campaigns mixed in. I've been seeing some from Levi's, Bulletproof Coffee, plus a team up from Diesel and Tinder. But we've also noticed brands taking pride marketing much more seriously and cautiously in recent years. Corporations are pulling back on their parade sponsorships, for instance. So I wanted to unpack the strategies that brands have for making pride impactful and not just a performative moment in the retail tentpole advertising calendar.

0:53Melissa Daniels:To unpack all this, I am joined by Matt Tuminello and Matt Wagner from Target 10, an LGBTQ-focused marketing agency that's worked with brands across categories for nearly two decades. They specialize in helping brands with queer communities in authentic and relevant ways and really connecting. What I like about this approach is it's not only grounded in actual consumer data and insights, but they really know culture, they really know relevance, and really just what's cool. Matt and Matt Wagner, welcome to the show. Thank you. Nice to be here. Thank you. Great to be here. Well, thank you so much.

1:30Melissa Daniels:I'm really excited for this conversation because I think it's so relevant to the cultural ecosystem we're all living in and scrolling through. And you guys are really at the center of it. So start me off with a little bit of a history lesson here and catching us up on how pride marketing campaigns sort of have come to be and what we're seeing more recently. Yeah, I can kick us off. And actually, Matt, you might have some interesting things. Matt wrote a very interesting blog post a couple years ago about the term pride marketing. And like, what does that actually mean? And is that really the right term to use?

2:07Because it involves a lot more things, right? It involves your employees, it involves the workplace culture, it can involve marketing. I think if you were to look back, just like this is Target 10 has been around for a minute and like the arc of history a little bit, you almost had like three phases. You had brands that before marriage equality, let's say that we're saying, you know what, this consumer group is really important to us and or the employees are really important to us. Our values of inclusion are really important to us. We're going to be very supportive of LGBTQ presence and equality in this world.

2:41And I think that was a little bit risky at the time. They knew it wasn't without risk to do those things. And it really got a lot of brand love when they did because LGBTQ consumers and individuals weren't used to seeing that. So, you know, when someone, you know, steps out on a limb for you, you remember it, you recognize it. And then we had the marriage equality phase, marriage equality passes, Obama's in office, feels like it's a happy new world. And all of these brands and companies think, oh, it's safe now. I can say something. Hey, everyone's welcome. Be very supportive. Come out and say your piece.

3:15And I think that's when we started to see a lot of what you might call pride marketing happening, like fashion capsules or limited edition this and that with proceeds going to a nonprofit organization. But wrapped up in that also were employees marching in parades and workplace culture and stuff like that. And it also meant that competition for eyeballs and attention span got a lot more intense because before there was only a few. And then now maybe more recent history, specifically very much since 2024, maybe since like 2022, 2023, it has come with more risk. As you're saying, Melissa, some brands are stepping back and it's a little bit quieter.

3:53Others, fewer, are staying the course and, you know, just staying the course. I think that actually speaks volumes and they're benefiting from a bit of a, I won't call it a white space, but a quieter space. They no longer have the competitive nature of a crowded echo chamber of well-wishers, if you will. But I think that's kind of where we are today. And Pride really should be part of your strategy, your long-term strategy for connecting with consumers, not your strategy for connecting. It's a piece of it. It's not really designed to sell. It's to celebrate. You should be selling at other points during the year and connecting with these consumers.

4:28And just to place those phases, so to speak, in time, the first phase was kind of mid to late 2000s. Then as you entered the aughts, the Obama era, that's when it started to almost take on this freewheeling sense of everyone and anyone can get involved. And what might have been a little more intentional, a little more conscious of a placement of engagement of communication and representation became a bit of a default add on or bolt on to almost every brief, especially when it came to summer and pride season. And I think that's also when you started to see a little bit of the dilution of LGBTQ marketing and engagement because brands were doing it so quickly and trying to take advantage of trends and really jump on the bandwagon, often in a good way.

5:21But it did mean that you started seeing a lot of the same faces, a lot of the same themes, because for better or for worse, the folks pulling these campaigns together often quickly, often last minute when a client says, hey, what's our pride plan? You reach for the easiest, quickest option, which tends to be the same small set of people, events, themes, topics, etc. So that's where it was this odd disconnect between suddenly many, many more entities, brands, companies were doing it, but it became rather shallow and superficial a lot of the time. Not always, but a lot of the time. And I think now this third act, we're almost starting to see a bit of the balance, again, despite what the reasons may have been to push us to that space where the marketing is a lot more clever, savvy, sophisticated based on the actual brand or company or product or service, but through an LGBTQ or queer lens, as opposed to having that lens really be the only thing that was the focal point.

6:24Mm-hmm. And what Matt just said was such a good point, because that middle phase is where you really had this issue of things being transactional and performative, to kind of put two words to it. And I think you said it very well, Matt. We are seeing, you know, for better or for worse, maybe just people taking more time, being more intentional, and differentiating, quite honestly. Like, love is love is not a very differentiating campaign tagline. Mm-hmm.

6:49Melissa Daniels:Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think about the contrast between like what we saw Subaru do in the late 90s and really consciously craft marketing campaigns around a customer who's a lesbian that they knew was already buying their car and that that was happening against the backdrop of like, don't ask, don't tell being the law of the land, you know, that they were really kind of going out on a limb. And you contrast that with like, I don't know, like the rainbow LinkedIn avatar from a corporation. Do you know what I mean? And it just sort of like speaks volumes behind the strategies there and the thoughts and the connection and the impulse.

7:25And I think something related to that, and, you know, not to generalize for every company that might have advertised with LGBTQ people back in the day, but there's almost a bit of an inversion to where some of these companies like Subaru, like Absolute, like American Airlines, thinking of the mid to late 80s, early 90s, they were realizing and taking advantage of the fact that they, however they figured it out or found it out, had existing large audiences within, whether the community at large or with Subaru, queer women, with Absolute, probably more queer men, although certainly, you know, the community at large.

8:04Whereas now it's more courting the audience is. There may be reasons that audiences, queer people at large, men, women, different ages, different generations, would engage with a skincare product. But now, you know, also as opposed to the 90s, there are almost unlimited variations on skincare, on alcoholic beverages, on travel, on any category. There's just so much, there's a glut of brands and possibilities. So there's far more brands trying to court queer people who maybe never even heard of the brand But if they did, they would love it. So that's a slightly different sort of way about going at it that I think has changed rather dramatically in these 30 years.

8:47And Melissa, you said something really interesting. You said against the backdrop of don't ask, don't tell. I actually just hadn't thought of that in years. And I think that was also something interesting of that time versus now in that companies didn't really get confused about what was a civil rights movement and what was marketing, what was a public statement of advocacy and targeted marketing. And for better or for worse, there were just clearer swim lanes. Today, things, you know, and I'm not saying things should live in a vacuum, but I'm just saying that, like, I think sometimes brands might conflate civil rights movements with marketing opportunities.

9:24There is a space in place for all the way. Matt and I are marketers. We are very much involved in the civil rights movement for LGBTQ people, but our job is marketing. and sometimes we have the amazing gift of being able to bring those things together. Ultimately, what we're doing to advance visibility of queer consumers, queer people is advancing civil rights, but at the end of the day, we are marketers.

9:47Melissa Daniels:Yeah, and you know, that kind of makes me think about the conversations I see unfolding on social media when brands do take a stance on something that is a civil rights issue or a humanitarian issue and the conversation on social media sometimes becomes people being skeptical on if that's genuine or not. And that just makes me think about how today's audiences here in 2026 are different than they were 10 years ago or 20 years ago. And, you know, just wondering when you are talking to queer audiences today, how that's different, you know, for a Gen Z-er, for a Gen X-er, for a boomer, for a millennial.

10:22Melissa Daniels:Because I imagine there's sort of different tones that the brands have to take. Something that we've seen, I think, both anecdotally and through some research that we've done, Target 10 research with partners, looking at how those different generations react and perceive LGBTQ marketing engagement representation. And to your point, it is rather different, and I think it reflects some of these eras or phases that this form of marketing and communication has had over these past few decades. More specifically, if you're looking, for example, at the difference between millennials and Gen Z, probably two of the most sought after audience categories and certainly Gen Z and Gen Alpha now being growth segments du jour as they become adults and their discretionary spending increases, we found that millennials like me, I'm 42.

11:11So I kind of came of age in the Obama era of that White House being lit up in rainbow lights and everyone sort of falling into place alongside that for the most part. And it was glorious. I think we had never seen this profusion of celebration and support for the community. And it kind of didn't matter if not everyone was necessarily in it to win it as authentically as the others. The mere fact that we were seeing it, especially in the wake of these moments like the Pulse shooting in Orlando, that would just drop us down like an anchor. And so you'd really want to see these brands and companies supporting you along with the government, the administration, you know, civic society.

11:50And that all started to, I think, come to an end when obviously COVID and the pandemic just blew the world up in all sorts of ways. And as Matt was saying, as we entered this new era and as Gen Zers became more true consumers because they weren't like kids anymore, like little kids, we started to see them taking an almost inverse view where they certainly had the same sorts of expectations, I think, that companies, brands engage with, represent, treat LGBTQ people properly, whether internally or externally through marketing. But they were more concerned with the brand itself. Is the brand cool?

12:27Is the brand functional? Is the brand interesting? Does it speak to me as a human being who's three-dimensional, of which one piece of my identity is being queer, a lesbian, trans, non-binary, what have you? But I think they just don't lead with their identity at the forefront in quite the same way that millennials and previous generations did. And so for that reason, it's more about that cool factor that Matt kind of mentioned being culture forward in ways that reflect and refract orientation but are not solely focused on it. So that's, I think, a key distinction between those two generations.

13:09And if you think about it, it is the same for all brands, brand marketing, right? You are going to have a target audience. It's likely going to have an age demo. I'm not going to speak to someone of my generation or my parents' generation as I would speak to someone of my nephew's generation who's 23. It just wouldn't make any sense. Even myself, I don't get the cultural cues and pop stars and cultural moments of a 24-year-old, 25-year-old, as much as I would love to. I would love to be that youthful.

13:36Melissa Daniels:Do you ever look at a headline and you're like, I have no idea who these people are? This happens to me. No idea. No idea. I feel like they're probably cool. They're probably really cool. And I'm not anymore, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I love this point. One other thing, too, that I think slightly different point, but does relate to this. As we think about just generally increased sophistication, not just of consumers, but of marketing as well, and how to discern amongst audiences. I think for the longest time, the LGBTQIA plus audience, which conceivably includes literally every demographic, all ages, all genders, all orientations, all races, all ethnicities, all location.

14:20You know what I mean? It's it's everyone and anyone. Now, I think not as much as it could be or should be, but marketers are getting a little savvier to think, oh, the same way that in general market, I don't just go for moms because that could be half the country. I go for moms that have these 17 demographic and psychographic attributes. Similarly, and this is something Target 10 has always done, but I think you're starting to see more of it across the board. Oh, we are Subaru. We're not necessarily trying to engage all queer audiences. It's really queer women who have these particular tendencies or interests, ages, et cetera, that are really the sweet spot for our product.

15:01So that also speaks to, I think, the level of research and insight and just depth that you can go to reach consumers where they are in ways that are more individualized as opposed to sort of this broad community messaging that inevitably has to live up here because it speaks to literally everyone. Right.

15:22Melissa Daniels:I want to stay on that point and link that back to what you were saying earlier about showing up in a year-long strategy, showing up in front of a community in ways, you know, armed with that data. You've decided that there's a certain queer community that is a great fit for your brand. They just have to know you're out there. You know, what do you do? What does that year-round strategy engagement look like? well i think first let's unpack what year round means and i think you know what brand is truly year round with their marketing right there's seasonality there's 10 poll dates is when you lean in when you lean out and stuff like that but i think in this conversation when people say year round what they mean is like some sort of consistent presence um and i think that it really depends on your brand if you're a travel brand summer might be your you know your height of the season um or if you're a ski resort, it's the wintertime.

16:16If you're a children's brand, perhaps back to school is your big season. So I think, think of your brand key moments in terms of sales and promotions and whatnot and messaging. And then how does the LGBTQ cohort fit within that, in that campaign? And if you were to like, kind of bring it back to the kind of the topic du jour of pride, I think when you're engaging regularly at those key moments, you're involved in the community, you're marketing, you're doing promotions, you're increasing visibility. You maybe got some great workplace policies. You're doing all the right things internally. When your brand shows up for a local pride parade where your headquarters is based, or they put that post out on LinkedIn and Instagram celebrating pride, it just kind of fits, right?

17:04Like, oh, that's the, I'll talk about vibes these days. Like, hey, like over the longterm, my vibe for this brand, like I see myself in their their world and seeing their pride post today, no surprise to me, makes me feel good. Like it, move on versus like never heard from this brand before. Don't know why they're here. They're making a, they're celebrating pride as if they're my best friend. And I don't think they've ever been to my party before. You know, it's like, there's all of those kind of like, don't be a bad guest at a party analogies. But I think, I think that's, those are important points.

17:37Melissa Daniels:I love this idea of a brand really consciously making an effort to say, hey, this is a community that we know, will love, and appreciate our project. We just have to introduce ourselves the right way with the right vibes marketing, as it were. Curious if you have any examples you can talk about of brands you've worked with that have been on that trajectory and what kind of results they've had. Any examples of brands that you feel like, you know, saw an opportunity with a certain queer demographic and then took that and ran with it. Yeah, absolutely. So I think really one of the best examples, not just as a client of ours, but quite frankly, in the marketplace in the last decade or so is Trojan brand.

18:19Trojan is owned by Church and Dwight. And we started working with the brand and its teams about seven years ago. And it was actually right around when the pandemic had first started. And so that gave us an interesting opportunity when the marketing was kind of being reassessed, given all of the changes happening in society, to do some research, very much like what I was just describing, to understand how are young queer men thinking and behaving and digesting anything in the realm of sexual health and wellness. And that's including understanding their perception of condoms and lubricants and the actual physical products that the brand sells, but also queer male intimacy representation in TV in movies, for example, because we wanted to get under how they felt they were being represented and engaged or not in this world so that we could then set Trojan up for success to engage them in ways that would both fit the brand but also fit what they're seeking.

19:18And ultimately, we were able to do that. And over the course of these last six or seven years, we've had this consistent presence, as Matt was describing. It's not something every single day, but they're not doing something every single day in general market either. And we've been able to work together to do everything from, you know, at this point, probably 30, 40 creator partnerships with a wide variety of queer creators, most of whom were smaller, a little more niche. Now we've gotten into some of the bigger ones, but we always make room for varying sizes of folks to make sure we're hitting a variety of overlapping communities and segments.

19:55and is also doing some event collaborations and production, both with events you might expect, like fun pride events thrown by media properties like So.Gay or Queerty, but also working with events that have never had corporate sponsors before, like Bushwick, which is a really fun alternative drag festival that happens every year in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Bushwick, where Trojan is the only partner. And this event has been going on for almost 15 years. So ultimately, to give a sort of a final example of where this all came to is just a couple weeks ago, we were able to sponsor with Trojan brand and a sister brand at Church and Dwight called TheraBreath, which is an oral care brand, sponsored the premier party of Stop That Train, which, as folks may have heard, is the current, or I shouldn't say current, it releases June 12th.

20:45So this may come out a little bit before then. But RuPaul and the Drag Race universe birthed a film called Stop That Train, which is essentially an airplane-style hijinks comedy action thriller that I highly recommend. But Trojan Brand has a product integration in the film, which we were able to get through a relationship with World of Wonder, which produces Drag Race. And then because of that trust that had built between World of Wonder, the brand, Target 10, they offered us the opportunity to sponsor the world premiere of the movie itself and then activate it the after party. And that was just kind of as fabulous as you might imagine.

21:26You know, hundreds of celebrities and drag queens and influencers all engaging with these brands in such a natural, organic way. And many of them were commenting on the Trojan work they'd seen over the years. So it just all felt like it belonged and like it fit. No one batted an eye. No one had an issue with the fact that a brand that in some milieus might be a little extreme, perhaps, to sponsor an event, totally normal here. And it was just a wild success.

21:55Melissa Daniels:There's just always a taboo-ness to sexual health stuff anyway. It's just like built in still. I mean, I know I hear it on the female side a lot too for like period care, you know? But I love that you said that people had recognized the brand from other moments and other events and other partnerships. Because just like you were saying, it didn't come out of nowhere. And it's also, it's not like you send in an RFP to get the product placement. It's like this was built out of relationships and knowing the community. Yeah, no, I think that's a super important point. Because when it comes, not that this isn't the case in other markets, other communities, but I think with LGBTQ, you know, there's a phrase, small gay world.

22:36And it's because it's really, really true. There are not that many of us in, you know, we're increasing in our numbers year over year as folks become more comfortable coming out. But it's still a tiny community in the grand scheme of things. And so we, you know, not that we all know each other, but especially in marketing and professional circles and media, we do communicate a lot and we're aware of what each other is doing, similar to black or Hispanic or AAPI, right? You stay in touch with your colleagues. And so that connection and connectability gives us all the opportunity to create these incredible marketing programs that it's like one of these rising tides lift all boats, including our clients.

23:18Melissa Daniels:Yeah, yeah. I feel like there's a lesson there and, you know, true allyship in marketing versus performative moments. And I think maybe that kind of comes back to what we were talking about with pride. It's like, you can't just put out a campaign that has some slogans and rainbows on it and expect it to resonate if people aren't going to know why you're showing up all of the sudden. But I feel like there's a lesson there, like beyond queer communities for like talking to literally any audience of specificity ever. You know, like you need to know them and show up the right way. Just curious if that's something that you ever talk about with your clients as far as that line between performative and allyship.

24:00Oh, for sure. And I think that fortunately, I think because they're our clients and we're guiding them, we're really not falling into that, you know, performative trap if you really will. And I think what, when Matt was talking like it's a small gay world, but also when you're working with insiders. And when I say insiders, I mean, you're working with cultural strategists that understand a community inside and out. They understand the jokes, they understand the memes, they understand the music, they understand everything. And you're guiding that brand that's getting more and more comfortable in those spaces, understanding the jokes, part of the world, the part of the music.

24:38That's when it results in the movie premiere, a product integration, you have a brand who's very fluent at that party versus, and I keep using a party analogy, but it is like coming in and like trying to be cool in a place where you really don't know how to be cool. Well, you know, when you work with the right cultural strategists, they're working with you to get that cultural coolness, if you will. And it is so true. It's not just queer folk or any specific pocket they're in. It's exactly, are you working with the black community, the older community, the women's community? Like, who are you trying to talk to?

25:07because there's going to be like, if you know, you know moments. And if you're not a cultural strategist that understands that community inside and out, it's going to be really difficult to build a winning brand marketing strategy. I mean, that's the job of a good strategist, whether they're in-house or at an agency is to guide that brand through those waters. And hopefully it's not a one hit wonder. So you're not just like, I'm going to give you talking points to get through this one hour event. You're building with them year on year to become fluent. And then they become real true equal partners in the marketing strategy because they also share that fluency.

25:43Melissa Daniels:I love that. And I love that you mentioned the importance of having the people in the room who you're trying to talk to. I mean, no community is a monolith, but I still sometimes think people see campaigns and they're like, was anybody related to that audience in the room here? And you can tell the difference when they are. And that's the most beautiful thing I see happening. You know, just to sort of wrap this all up here, whether it's something specific you've seen to Pride this year or just overall a campaign you've worked on, I would love to hear some examples of, you know, campaigns that you think are really winning, strategies that are really winning, whether it's a particular ad, particular collection, particular brand.