Where Boll & Branch draws the line on AI-generated advertising

0:09Hello and welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast, our show that covers the ways the retail industry is changing and modernizing. I'm senior reporter Gabby Barco. With AI-generated imagery and content becoming nearly expected from brands, more companies are creating playbooks on how they approach these tools for their consumer-facing campaigns. Some, like Coca-Cola, are doubling down on using AI-generated ads despite initial backlash. On the other end, there's REI, which pulled their ad after customers reacted saying the use of AI does not align with the company's sustainability mission. In this episode, we're going behind the scenes into one brand's approach to using generative AI in their marketing creatives.

0:56Boll & Branch is known for its premium bedding, bath, and home essentials and largely sells through its D2C website and stores. Here with me today is Kristen Deco, Chief Creative Officer of Boll & Branch, who has been leading the brands' use of AI tools for their marketing. Kristen, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. So, Kristen, to get us started, I think maybe the first thing we can chat about is Bullenbranch's sort of general approach to using AI tools specifically in marketing content, you know, whether it's imagery, whether it's a copy for a campaign. And we'll talk about where you draw the line because something that's happening right now among a lot of brands is that there is pushback because there are brands that are using humans and a little bit of a deceptive, I guess, images that a lot of consumers are rightfully upset about or are pushing back on.

2:03So yeah, I'd love to hear where you're coming from, when it comes to AI tool use. Yeah, at Bowen Branch, we have a really strong creative and brand team. And so when AI started to be introduced within our workflow, it was really focused on using AI to amplify an idea, not necessarily replace it, and really ensuring that AI isn't our guiding creative strategy. The idea still needs to come first. AI can still be used as a thought partner with us. However, we shouldn't just create something simply because the technology can create it. There really is a sense of discernment in the work that we're creating and what feels right for the brand and the brand that we're building today.

2:48Maybe you can tell us about the tools that you're using and then the specific content that you're using it on. I mean, is this stuff for social? Is it for email? Is it for the website? Where is it living? We use a variety of AI tools. There's a bunch of different applications that we're able to utilize. So we definitely take advantage and test into as many new platforms as we possibly can to find the right blend for our brand specifically. the way that we're utilizing AI is honestly across all of our marketing channels. You might see it more specifically and prominently within our paid social channels.

3:30However, we do utilize AI generated imagery in emails and other correspondence when we're trying to reach our customers, ensuring that we're driving them in and we're really representing the brand. Do you mind walking us through an example of your team using it or how are you maybe conceptualizing an upcoming campaign? I mean, for example, right now we're about to go into Q4 on holidays. Is there something that comes to mind recently that you worked on that you can walk us through? Yeah. So every season we kick off with a creative and brand brief. And within that brief, we'll come up with what's our overarching theme for the season.

4:12And within that theme, we'll utilize AI to one, build our mood boards and also help to educate our marketing partners on what it is that we're looking to execute against. When we start to build into those ideas, we'll evaluate, is this worth shooting within our photo studio? Or is this something that we really need to exaggerate an idea and create a sense of surrealism and really thinking about what that creative expression can be in a very unique way. So that's when we'll start to evaluate and we'll go through our shot list and our content creation with our photography team and decide, are we going to go after this utilizing AI to execute against it?

4:51Or is this going to be something that we create in-house? We really create a blend of the two. Sometimes we'll shoot things and we'll amplify it with AI. And then in other times, we'll create something from scratch utilizing generative imagery. And so an example of one that we've created, I'll actually give an example from our summer sale, which we run every year. We really wanted to lean into this sense of surrealism and this over-exaggeration of where the brand shows up and how we look and feel. And so one of the executions that we used within our summer sale was we wanted to create this sense of Bowen Branch showing up in the Northeast coast.

5:31And in order for us to really show up, that entails an entire production team. We were thinking about how can we create a sailboat for Bowen Branch to show how we show up. And so instead of having an entire crew fly out there to create a sailboat that would be utilized one time, we started to execute against it utilizing different AI platforms. We typically use Weavey, which has access to all of the different image generation and video generation content. And so we're able to test and feel which one feels right for the brand and what execution we're going to go after, whether it be Nano Banana or Grok.

6:06There's so many options that you're able to execute against. So with that one specifically, we'll work with our photography team to figure out what type of lens that we would use, what time of day we should really focus on, what should the exposure look like during that time based on the aesthetic that we're building for the brand. And so it's a really important distinction when you're bringing to life all of those unique pieces that make an image so special. And so that's where we're really focused and making sure that every one of those details comes to life. And that image of the sailboat was actually utilized in final execution.

6:41And we utilized it through our paid social channels along with our CRM channels. It's also you get feedback and performance extremely quick when you're running things on paid social. So we were even able to execute really quickly and change the time of day that some of these sailboats or AI generated images are running, which gives us so much more flexibility to read and react to the business and what people are responding to in real time. I think one thing that comes up a lot is that there's obviously a very subtle use, like in this sailboat image, but then sometimes, you know, there is use of when I'm looking at some of your images, it's like, it's very obvious, like these whimsical oversized objects that you're kind of integrating into your store or into your photo shoot that to the average person is probably obvious.

7:33So I guess I do wonder, you know, where is that philosophy really landing? And when do you decide you want to go more sort of hyper realistic versus this sort of like almost steampunk vibe sometimes that I think AI tends to result in? Yeah, I would say when we utilize AI, it is typically when we're trying to make something feel a bit more exaggerated or fantastical. Even for our holiday campaign, we're really focused on that magical feeling that comes to life during the holidays and that feeling that you look forward to all year. And that feeling is something that is really hard to depict in a visual execution.

8:17So we do utilize AI in instances like that to help drive home that idea to really connect the viewer through what we're trying to execute against. I would say there's three rules or boundaries that we have as a brand where we utilize AI and what we feel feels right for the brand and does not. So when we're thinking about people as a brand, we're always really focused on depicting authentic human relationships and experiences. So we will always favor having real people. For product, I never want to change what the customer would ever expect to receive for color, construction, texture, scale. All of those things have to be true to the customer.

8:59So what we really play is definitely within the world. And this is where, as a brand, I'm very comfortable with being more imaginative and the environment that's surrounding the product can become a bit more unexpected and surreal, almost like impossible. An example of when we executed against that was we ran a percale frozen sheet ad, which performed really well for us where we captured or we recreated our sheet set stack frozen within an ice cube, which is sure, maybe something I could execute against in the studio, but would have taken a lot of trial and error. It was a concept that we wanted to test into really quickly.

9:40And it was actually conceived... I was chatting with the CEO of our company, Scott Tannen, and we started talking about absolute vodka advertising that came to life in the late 80s throughout the 90s. I actually think they had a 20-year run. And we were thinking about how can we showcase how cold our sheets are and how they give you a better night's sleep. we knew that customers were really concerned with sleeping hot and we have the benefit to that. So we wanted to make sure we were connecting through in a really clear way without literally depicting an idea of temperature. So we made something that was very obviously impossible.

10:21No one would ever expect our sheets to show up in an ice cube or be sold in a frozen ice cube. And so we were able to transport that cooling proposition into something that was instantly understandable. But there was a lot of work that went into it to get it to the way that it was. Anyone can enter just a single line prompt and you can be given a result. That result is not always the best result straight and off the bat. So we always make sure that we are digging into what makes an ice cube look realistic. So that way we are creating something that feels almost real, a still life that I would truly feel proud about, that feels like a sculptural piece of art is where we really focused on the exact tone of the ice cube, what the backdrop is, how we make sure that our sheets still feel soft through something that is very cold and icy really is a challenge.

11:10And that could be something that could take anywhere from 20 to 30 prompts to get it to exactly what you need it to be. And that is truly is like a full-time day job as a designer or as a visual creative person that they have to be able to execute against and really be able to spot the things that make it unique because with the world of AI today, anyone can create anything. And we want to make sure that that level of taste and intention comes through in every asset that we create. Yeah. I do wonder, like looking at this ice cube, you know, were there decisions like you wanted it to be more of that clear kind of sort of block ice that you see in a cocktail versus like a cloudy type?

11:50So maybe this is a good time to zoom in on prompts, right? because it could take dozens to really get it perfectly and not just upload the first thing that Grok is spitting out. And you coming from a design background where you've probably been through multiple generations of programs for design. Yeah, how does this help, I guess, speed up that process? Like, what are you prompting it to really get the perfect image that you want at the end? I feel very fortunate that I've had a classic training in graphic design where I am able to understand color theory and composition and all of those things guide a much better image generation.

12:29And then on the other side, I have an incredibly talented team that works in-house at Bowen Branch and I will tap into them to understand every little thing that goes into capturing a photograph. So that means what is the camera lens that you're using? What is the camera? What is the exposure? The temperature that I need to set? And I'll include all of those details within my prompt to ensure that I'm getting something as close to what I could possibly want or get out of my photo team. And then it's also a matter of trial and error. Sometimes it just depends on where you put each detail within a prompt.

13:05And if you move one thing from the back of a prompt all the way up to the front, it could completely change the output. And so having flexibility to play with different programs and play with different prompting is really important to get the right asset that you need. Because at the end of the day, I'm building a brand and I I want to ensure that every asset I create continues to build into that brand. And that level of discernment is incredibly important. So I guess a lot of this whimsical or larger than life imagery, would you say that this is really more geared towards the consumer that's maybe coming across the brand like on social very quickly, like or maybe email marketing versus your website where by the time somebody is on your website, you want sort of the, you know, more prestigious or the more high-end images to show up?

13:53Yeah, I would say we predominantly use AI-generated images through our more so top of funnel to bid funnel channels where we're really trying to bring in new customers to differentiate ourselves or clearly communicate a benefit to a potential customer. I would say that we try to avoid using AI on the e-commerce site itself. So the closer that you get to the point of purchase, the more literal I think it is that you need to communicate what the product is that you're selling and the image needs to become. So for us, we're more focused on brand campaigns, paid social. We definitely lean in much heavier on the permission for imagination and we'll utilize AI environments or surreal scale.

14:37We'll use visual metaphors to drive you in. But when it comes to the product description pages and anything that we want to make sure that we're clearly communicating the texture, the construction. It needs to be 100 % accurate. And detail photography is incredibly important. I don't want customers to come to our site and say, is this real or is this not? I would say if we're trying to describe something that makes the product really unique from a technical standpoint, we'll utilize things like AI or we'll use CGI artists to help us construct something that feels realistic to what it is that we're actually selling.

15:16So I would say as a rule, I'm like less interested in saying that AI can live in one channel versus another. I would say as you move through the selling journey, it's more and more important that a customer understands exactly what it is that they're getting and we're not creating something false. I do wonder, you know, going back to the IceCube example, you know, given that you're using your background of expertise to create these campaigns, like, would you say that as it's getting easier for other brands to replicate these or execute these with their own prompts, like, is there a concern, I guess, by the team or by yourself to consider, like, how to continuously differentiate these as we go?

16:00Because I think something with AI, we hear a lot is that, like, it's literally changing by the day and it's becoming more accessible, at least, you know, prompts wise to everybody. So I do wonder whether looking back on this campaign a couple of months ago, that some of that philosophy has been altered. Yeah, I think having everyone have access to AI and to be able to generate the same things that myself or anyone else is able to create has made it more and more challenging. But at the end of the day, there's always a moving finish line for what a brand stands for and what they look like. And so we do constantly have to be evolving.

16:36That never changed. It's just moving much faster than it ever had before. So as soon as we start to see other brands pick up or see success in what we created, and then they in turn create, makes us push even further to execute something different and something unique. Yeah, I think this is something you touched on when you mentioned those three pillars or rules that you follow as a company. I guess I wonder, is that coming down from the founders? or is this something that's evolving that you guys, you know, you're advising on or you guys are coming up together? I always wonder that, especially with founder-led brands where it is your baby and it's your vision, but as you're scaling, of course, you have to let people like yourself make some of those decisions.

17:20So I guess I just wonder if the pillars are constantly evolving or if this is something that's coming down from above. I would say how we approach AI definitely comes from the founder. I think when we think about what we stand for and what we believe in, it's always been instilled in anyone that works for the company from day one. I've been fortunate enough to have worked for Bowen Branch for nine and a half years. So, so much of this brand, I was a part of building. And so I feel that same level of passion and need to continue to push us and evolve while still maintaining what makes us unique and what makes us special as a brand.

17:59I would say the founders, both Scott and Missy encourage us to continue pushing the boundaries and testing new things and continuing to learn. It's just been instilled in everyone since day one when we started within the company is that you can make an impact. And so how the company evolves and what we stand for still is rooted in everything that we do, but we continue to evolve. And that's always been at the crux of every campaign we've ever created. Yeah. I mean, I guess from your perspective, I also do wonder, you know, a lot of times we hear these tools presented as like time and money saving.

18:34But like if you still have a full in-house team that's creating a lot of these, I wonder whether at this point in time, of course, we're speaking to you feel like they are worth testing and investing in versus, you know, I don't know, maybe you'll feel differently in a year or whatnot. So yeah, do you feel like right now they are helping you, I guess, save on money and resources? Or is it just literally integrated across the board? I would say both. As a leader within the organization, I'm always very curious and eager to learn new things. So that's always been at the crux of how we introduce new tools is really just to continue to push the boundaries of the creative team of what we're able to execute against.

19:20I would say it's integrated into our everyday workflow, but started off as a cost savings. I think there are ideas that we've all come to the table with that we're like, oh, we can't afford that. That's a million dollars to create. But the example of the sailboat or for our annual spring event, we wanted to showcase a hot air balloon floating through beautiful fields. And that's just something that's completely outrageous. We don't have the budget, nor are we anywhere near somewhere that could execute against something like that. If we were putting together a really large-scale brand event, I definitely think something like that would make sense.

19:56But the use case for it was so small that it made more sense for us to work towards executions in AI. So we built a hot air balloon through visual applications and prompting, and then continue to build upon that when we established it into a video and we're able to have a branded hot air balloon floating through the sky just to really stop a customer in their tracks and have them consider Bowen Branch as a brand. It was truly about the feeling. So an instance like that is something that saves money and also saves time because it's an idea that would have been thrown away. But now it's something that we actually get to explore and execute against.

20:35And I think for anyone that's in the visual field, being able to bring your creative ideas to life is so incredibly fulfilling. And now we don't have to throw things away just because there's a hard line on a budget and there's not enough time to execute against it. Just to follow up on something that you mentioned earlier that I found interesting is that because you have experience in photography and imagery that you're able to prompt some of the LLMs on using like a specific lens or specific filter, whatever it might be. Was this, I guess, a good example of that challenge where you are able to kind of reiterate and reiterate until you get that perfect image?

21:16I would say that this is another example of where we were hyper-focused on the details in order to have it fully represent the brand and the brand universe that we were looking to build. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Bowen Branch owns like a fleet of hot air balloons. It's truly about creating that feeling. And the distinction, to my point earlier, is really important in how we show up as a brand. So what the texture of the hot air balloon looks like, the scale of the hot air balloon, where the location was, was all curated based on an overarching campaign. And those details were cut through from our original creative campaign.

21:53It wasn't just, I want a hot air balloon floating through the air and slap my brand on it. it was truly a labor of love to be able to get that level of detail, to be able to create something that we felt really aligned with our brand values and our brand goal and ensuring that the brand cuts through. And then I guess for the last part, I'd love to just hear a little bit about as a brand, whether you are seeing more discerning feedback from customers, you know, as you're using these tools, like, is there a pushback or do you feel like sometimes it's maybe a little bit in a gray area, just given, you know, how high level some of these images can be, where the consumers are pushing back.

22:39I think the, like, probably the biggest nightmare I would imagine a brand would have is, like, you go through their comments and there's a bunch of, oh, this is AI slob, you know, I think that's probably the biggest accusation you can get. And so I do wonder whether all of that is in mind as you're creating. That would be absolutely heartbreaking to me if anyone ever responded in a comment that what we created was AI slap because truly we are deciding whether or not we're creating something in real life and using humans to create something that could feel fantastical and surreal or we are utilizing AI but are very curated and thoughtful in the execution.

23:19So I would say we don't receive a ton of comments asking if this is AI or not AI because we are so obvious with the fantastical approach that we take to AI, really leaning in on surrealism. So I would say we haven't had any negative feedback in that way. We've also had pretty hard and fast rules. We review all of the assets through multiple layers to ensure that something feels brand right. We've created AI executions. We currently have an equestrian edit that is out today. And within that execution, we are trying to come up with more and more ways to showcase this equestrian POV and how that connected through with our incredible bedding.

24:06And through some of the executions, the ideas sounded like great ideas. But as we got into actually executing and prompting our LLMs, it was not executing against the visuals that we were hoping to land. So some of those things don't end up making it ever to the customer because it doesn't hit the mark and it doesn't ensure our brand integrity in every single asset that we're creating. So we do have a pretty strong creative team that's evaluating every single asset before it goes out the door. And even if we were to outsource with any other teams or utilize other designers or executors to create things for us, we're ensuring that it still always hits our brand standard.

24:49Yeah, and then I'm wondering, as a company, if you've considered some of these local and national proposals for laws that will have brands and advertisers have to disclose using AI tools in their imagery, is that something you're already thinking about policy-wise or ready to embrace? For us, I don't see it as an issue to disclose if we're utilizing AI and that is clearly communicated within caption copy because it's so obvious in the effects that we're using it that any customer, any viewer would know that we're utilizing AI. I do think that as a human, I still feel like we should be as a society disclosing if the people are AI because it creates a false sense of reality.

25:42And that's not something that we as a brand believe in. I want to ensure that the reality of moments and people and who we're utilizing to represent our brand are true and that humanity actually exists. So for us, I think it's less of an issue. I do agree with them putting those types of laws in place because it is a better sense of reality in what it is that we're seeing and experiencing. And I think that there is a bit of deception that's played through different brands today. Yeah, I do think human faces especially is obviously like the most obvious example of this. But I guess I was wondering, like, you know, when it comes to changing the tone of the sky or adding, you know, greenery or foliage to a photo, I'm like, is that something like, are we going to have to disclose every little aspect of an image eventually that like, it's just to me is not realistic because all of these have been used for years, if not decades, right?

26:41I completely agree. As a photo studio, we've manipulated reality in advertising in every single thing that we do. We build sets, we create artificial sunlight, we retouch images and compose images together because there's a better shadow in one image versus another and we'll composite those things together. So for that to be considered AI or a false sense of reality just sounds a little outrageous to me. It's everything then that we see today will be considered artificially created. Yeah. So you think like just very obviously generative out of thin air products or humans would be really the hard line there?

27:24Absolutely. I think that there should be a line in the sand and I think that there should be clarity into what is created via AI versus not. But so much of what we create today in advertising does have a little bit of a false sense of reality. Yeah, I do think there's probably a lot that maybe the average person wouldn't be thinking about. I think of this whenever like in film too, it's like you're watching a movie and you don't realize there's actually a lot more CGI or editing that went into it, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye. So I do think this is probably going to be the next discourse phase.

28:02I think it also gives so much more credit to the actors and the producers and the crews that bring something to life when you actually see the behind the scenes. I've been inundated with content recently in the making of series, especially with things like CGI. And it is incredible everything that goes into it. It truly is a craft and you don't realize it until you start to see it. And I think that if brands can continue to lean into what differentiates them and how they've created something so unique. It's just gonna continue to really push the boundaries of reality and craft in a way that it never has before.