Violife's chief growth officer on making plant-based cheese mainstream

0:05Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast.

0:30I actually had for lunch today. And so one of the reasons why I was excited to chat with you is because I actually am a shopper who eats Violife quite frequently. And I'm really excited just to get into the world of plant-based food. I know Violife as a company is only, not recently, but it started in Europe and has expanded outward to a lot of different places. And I'm really fascinated with just the differing world of plant-based cheese companies or plant-based alternative companies and how they work in different geographies, not just the US, but in Europe and elsewhere. And I want to go into all that.

1:05And I also want to just go into the growing world that is these food alternatives, because they're taking the world by storm and they're really fun to watch. But Olga, how are you doing? I'm doing great, Kale. Living the dream, as I always say. I'm glad to hear that. So let's start with you, because you have a pretty amazing resume. I was doing some LinkedIn stalking, and you've worked at some pretty well-known companies over the years. Do you want to just give a little bit of background about who you are and how you ended up at Violife? Yes, sure. Kale, my story, let's say, stems from far, far away, literally and figuratively.

1:43I was born in Siberia next to the North Pole and traveled with a number of stops all the way to New York City. And the stops were very much career driven. So I have grown up throughout the CPG ecosystem, if you will, fast moving consumer goods, big academy companies. And I was privileged to run a number of businesses starting from Eastern Europe to regional roles and global roles living around the world. And finally, about 13 years ago, hard to believe, I have landed in New York, which was always my planned destination. So here I am and happy to be here for sure. And so how did you end up at Violife specifically?

2:33And did you ever think you would end up in the world of, you know, plant-based cheese, etc. alternatives? Yes, great question. Look, throughout my career, my commitment was to two types of businesses, health and wellness driven brands within the large companies, as I mentioned, think Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo, Racket, but also driving health and wellness agenda for more established brands within equally large companies like Heineken or Estee Lauder. So health and wellness has been a threat throughout my career. But also being an entrepreneur often has been, let's say, the choice that I've made by looking into type of assignments I've been taking on.

3:27Entrepreneur, whether starting new brands and businesses inside large companies or turning around in more disruptive ways established brands. And naturally, if you think of it, being an entrepreneur, being committed to health and wellness in my life, but also in my career choices, those two threads throughout my life were quite a natural path for me to be quite intrigued and excited to take on a challenge like reinvention and acceleration of a category. think plant-based cheese, but also taking on a brand that is a true jewel in our portfolio, which is Violife. Got it. And so can you just give a little bit of a history of Violife?

4:15Because I bet you people have seen it probably in the aisles. At least I have it in mind. Maybe I'm weird because I'm in New York. But also it's been around for a really long time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it launched in the 90s and entered the US in 2015. Is that correct? Yes. So the company that gave birth to Violife, the company's name was Arivia, was launched in 1990s. But the brand Violife actually came to market only in 2013. And yes, indeed, US launch happened around 2015 timing. So it's been a fast and furious growth journey for the brand. And as I mentioned, And the companies stemmed from Greece.

5:00But Violaive brand has truly been raised by the world. We are the one and only truly global plant-based cheese brand. And we are number one globally already. However, the category itself is truly nascent. It's effectively less than 2 % of cheese. Today is plant-based cheese. And we are on a mission to unleash the potential. If you think of yogurts, for example, already 5 % of total yogurts consumption is plant-based. And when you think about milk, 20%, almost 20 % of consumption is plant-based. So we are on a mission to really unleash this last frontier of plant-based categories, which is in our case, animal-free cheeses.

5:51And wildlife will be the beacon of that development. Got it. And so what was, when it launched in 2013 in Greece, what was the first product that it came out with? Great question. Well, we are offering and focusing on key cheeses, right? So think of cheddars, mozzarella of the world. But of course, being a brand that stems from Greece, that was born. It is feta. You got it. It is just like feta or Greek white, how we call it in Europe. And very quickly, the whole identity of wildlife was not to be one type of a cheese proposition. So whilst feta has been in the portfolio from early days, sovo, cream cheese, cheddar, just like mozzarella.

6:47And effectively, we are focused on making sure that our consumers have access to their loved types of cheeses, but can enjoy them in an alternative yet still very indulgent way. So I wanted to ask you this, because you mentioned how you're the number one global plant-based cheese company. And this is something I find very fascinating, because I know a little bit about U.S. plant-based products. and there are certain companies that have been around for many years. There are certain companies that are new that are growing in market share. And then when you go to Europe, I was in France for a year and I was shocked to see that the aisle was completely different and nothing of what I knew for plant-based products that was available in the US was available there.

7:37So how have you, was the strategy always, we're going to make this into a product that you can get globally and has that faced any marketing and branding hurdles? Great question. So the agenda for the brand has been global from rather early days. And the reason for that was a quest to make sure that we effectively democratize the category. We are on a journey of building out a totally new type of a category, a totally new type of business. As I've mentioned to you already, the penetration of animal-free or plant-based cheeses is very low still. around the world. So sticking to one country would inherently limit our ability to grow the scale of this category and appeal of this category and be able as a business to capitalize on economies of scale and as a brand really touch consumers at large.

8:42Whilst Wildlife authentically started with vegan and free from consumer base because that was the type of audience that wanted, that needed the type of a product that we were bringing to market. Very early on, we have embraced an attitude that we might be vegan, but you don't have to be. And we've grown from that core proposition to become a much broader brand today. We talk about wildlife now as an animal-free product. So you don't have to actually be very strict with your food motivations. But as long as you want to do just a bit better for the planet while doing well for yourself, wildlife is a great choice for you.

9:34And we cater effectively to a consumer audience that we lovingly call eat different consumer. And those are the people who are truly motivated by the food choices that they make. So they have a very charged relationship with food. And those can be the motivators could be functional. So think of gluten free, wheat free, vegan indeed. But they also can be quite emotionally driven motivations, such as animal cruelty or just sustainability concerns that people have more and more around the world. I can speak from my perspective, which is that I've recently gone dairy free just for health reasons, where I think I don't think my body likes dairy very much.

10:25And then that's how I that's how I found Vialife. And I was like, oh, wow, like this works. But I wanted, like, with that profile, the animal-free as opposed to saying vegan, does that transcend countries? Like, have you found that this is the right messaging to do in places beyond the U.S.? Or do you cater it for each different spot in different geographies? You are hitting the nail on the head, Kale, because indeed we have invested a lot of resources to understand how do we best serve our consumer audience across our key markets. And what we've learned very early on, that actually their needs and motivations are quite common.

11:11And to your question, as a result of it, the type of language we use resonates quite universally. So indeed, talking to people about higher order motivations, such as animal-free versus one type of a diet, such as vegan, we have learned that it is one of the ways to truly democratize this category and drive it to greater scale. And as a result, benefit consumer health, but also the health of the planet at large. One thing I wanted to ask, how important is product placement in the grocery store to you? Because I feel like there's a lot of debate. I don't know if it's debate, but there's always the vegan or plant-based section that has tofus and vegan cheeses and things like that.

12:02But then you have players like Impossible and Beyond, and they're in the meat section. And so at least in my grocery store, you're in the plant-based section. Would you ever want to be in the dairy section? Or do you think, like, what are your thoughts on that? This is definitely a journey. And what we have learned from other players, some of whom you've mentioned, the key here is not to run before we can walk. And what I mean by that, it is very important as we drive trial, we reflect the type of an audience we aim to recruit to make sure that we reflect that audience with the product that we offer.

12:46Right. So in many ways, being in our industry is playing in food tech. So it's not just food production. It's really nurturing and unleashing technological unlocks that propel the product forward. And as I'm sure you might have experienced, given your choices and your motivations and food that you've shared, the products have evolved over the years. We were lucky and frankly, very proud with Violife to lead the agenda on taste and flavor from very early days. And now we are very committed to also evolve nutrition profile of our products to be more nourishing for people because that's exactly what they're looking for.

13:35Taste and nourishment are the two requirements that people don't want to compromise on. So going back to your question on the shelf location and store, it's important that we don't try to become mainstream before we are ready for mainstream as a proposition. And we are working towards that. However, already today, our products are often superior and definitely great tasting across the board to attract an appeal to consumer who goes into plant-based space. So depending on the product, depending on the channel, depending on the customer, we are looking at shelf placement, let's say, in a very tailored way.

14:21Think of cream cheese. We have just launched the one and only bakeable cream cheese block on the market today at scale. It's rolling out to the shelves, to the stores near you as we speak. That product is so amazingly tasty. And we're having now lots of research to see how close we are to dairy. That actually lots of people who tried the product, whether it's buyers and the customers or consumers themselves, they claim that they like it so much that sometimes they like it even more than dairy. So, of course, when the product is so close, it's not just OK. it's preferable to be placed next to your dairy counterpart, let's call it like that.

15:08But for some other products where the technology has not yet caught up with the profile that the dairy consumer is looking for, maybe it is too early to make that leap. Got it. You talked about, you know, getting people to taste it and sort of driving trial. Can you talk about the distribution channel mix? So, you know, I'm pretty sure you're in both, you know, restaurants as well as, you know, grocery stores. How what has the thought been with that? Where do you focus on? How does that work? Yes. So our customers, whether it is on premise or off premise or food service, they are the name for it.

15:50Very much on the same journey as us. And we constantly discuss with them the strategy, how do we build trial and adoption of animal free or plant based type of categories? Because they equally play a massive role in, of course, us reaching the consumer, given how small and emerging of a category that we are. If you look back in history, definitely the category started more in health stores and more natural stores. And that was intentional because, again, that's where the initial product was fitting. That's where our core consumer was shopping back in the day. However, as you think forward, and frankly, also as you look at the trajectories of such categories as plant-based milk, for example, you can clearly see that the scale of adoption was equally propelled by the collaboration and partnerships with the right channels and customers.

16:57Think of oat milk and baristas and positioning oat milk as maybe even better for a cappuccino. Very mainstream behavior, drinking a cappuccino and putting the new alternative category right at the heart of it was a big propeller for that category growth. So we are looking at the channel mix very similarly. How do we make sure we partner more and more at scale whilst unleashing the footprint of our availability and really marry our conversation about choices of stores with customers or food service operators to the footprint of our consumer, our different people that we now know very well. So that matching, that cross-reference, if you will, where the consumer is and where the customers are, of course, creates a win-win situation for us as a brand and as a company and for the customers to be able to grow their shopper basket and to grow the category together with us.

18:06So you mentioned oat milk. And, you know, this is I feel like it's now become like a marketing lore story, like Oatly. Like they went to every New York coffee shop and got them to serve oat milk. And then that's how it all blew up. But what would for for Via Life or for vegan cheese, what would that that specific thing look like? Would that be finding a fast food partner? Like what do you think would be the thing that would make that happen for you? Yes. Well, Kale, first of all, I have to tell you, you will just have to wait and see and maybe we can get together again. I'm sure you don't want me to disclose all of the trade secrets, but I can assure you we are hard at work with our now renewed strategy on how we're going to grow this category.

18:52We are hard at work on bringing to market not just the next generation of products, but also thinking about the right applications that this product should live in to be able to deliver best consumer experience. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

19:14I wanted to ask, because you mentioned the technology part of it, and this is something we're in this weird, I mean, we're still very early on when it comes to plant-free companies, but we're in a weird adolescence for some of them where they launched with a lot of fanfare and now aren't doing as well. But they also, the way that they talked about their products didn't seem to resonate with consumers the way that they thought they would. And so how important is it that you talk about, you mentioned how there's health and you're focusing on the nutritional profile. Do you talk about the ingredients that are in Vialife?

19:49What are the things, because one of the criticisms that I've heard specifically about, say, Impossible or Beyond is that it seems very mysterious what's in them, but it tastes like beef and that seems weird. So how does that work for you as a company? Yes, that is a whole area we pay a lot of attention to. And just like any category that is born out of a need to be better, not just for the planet, but also for the people that we serve, be a choice for people who have true food motivations, food needs. It has always been very important for us to be intentional about the ingredients that we choose to put into our products.

20:32And you've repeated food tech a couple of times. Indeed, the right technology and understanding how different ingredients bond together, the protein matrix, starch continuum type of tech, knowing and growing the knowledge around all of those areas allows us to keep pushing the agenda on getting the nutrition profile better and better. better and one day even better than dairy. As it stands today, we're just very intentional on the type of ingredients that we put into the product. And we avoid at all costs to associate ourselves with anything that a person can't understand or pronounce. Got it.

21:22Makes sense. Can you talk about how the product roadmap has expanded? You mentioned you just went into bakeable cream cheese. was it 2021 that you introduced the cheddar cheese, I believe? Correct me, I might be wrong about that. But it seems like you, how do you choose what areas you want to go in? And are they only based on the countries where they are? Like, are, it seems like cheddar cheese, American cheese, mozzarella cheese, and cream cheese are very American, but maybe I'm wrong. But like, are those also selling well in Europe and other countries? Or how do you think about those products?

21:57Indeed, apart from American, all the cheese types you've named, they are among the top five cheeses around the world. There might be some slight difference in flavor profile, but even if you look at dairy, dairy has difference in flavor profile, even from one brand to the other. So we are indeed a brand that is looking at this category as a category in need of rapid scale, in need of rapid adoption, in need of rapid penetration growth. And as such, going after really scaled cheese types allows us to focus our breakthrough, technological breakthrough in the right way to be able to get to market not just many types of cheeses, which, by the way, we've done in the past.

22:49So we have some, let's say, varieties out there in the market that are more niche, more specialty. But as we look at the core of our agenda, we are very focused on unleashing the potential of largest cheese formats, because that's what will allow us to accelerate the category growth and appeal to a larger consumer base, as well as appeal to larger set of occasions. Apologies if this is a stupid question, but when you go into a new type of cheese, Is the base the same for all products and it's just the flavor combination? Or like how, like talk about the, you mentioned the technology. What is it that you're doing and is it the same throughout?

23:36It is definitely not the same throughout. So just like with dairy cheeses, different type of cheeses have a different texture, not just taste. So you've hit the nail on the head. Naturally, flavor is different. But as we think of the overall experience, we're also looking at how do we deliver best texture and best behavior of any type of cheese in application. So think of mac and cheese and cheddars used in mac and cheese or think of pizza. Any type of cheese and its application is what we keep in mind as we think of best chassis or best tech platforms to apply. Are there some shared chassis? Yes, there are.

24:26But there are a lot of nuance and difference as well to be able to deliver that texture. I wanted to talk about marketing because you mentioned how this is all about growing adoption and getting it past being a small piece of the overall dairy pie to being a bigger one. So how are you finding new customers? Are you marketing on all channels? Are you doing different tests? What are you doing? All of the above and then some, but at the same time being very selective and focused on what the priorities are. First and foremost, it all started for us with a much deeper understanding of the consumer than we ever had.

25:11And I am very confident, especially as someone who comes from large consumer good companies and someone who ran portfolios of brands on big global scale in the past. I'm very confident that our understanding of consumer now and the strategic plan that we have in place that is truly rooted in consumer insights, it will allow us not to just focus on the right type of innovation, but also on the right insights on how to bring this innovation to life and which occasions, I should say, really appeal to. But as we choose our touch points, of course, there are two things at play. As an insurgent category, not just insurgent brand, as an insurgent category, it's very important for us to punch above our weight.

26:07And as a result, to your point, we are testing different things before we commit to them at scale. we are also very intentional just like i was uh sharing with you we're intentional in mapping our stores and talking to our customers about mapping their stores we're equally as intentional about touch points we choose um and understanding where do our consumers like to talk about food how they relate with culture what type of messages they like to share with each other so So being rooted in culture, being rooted in consumer behavior and day-to-day behavior is where it all begins for us. We are not engaging right now in mainstream mass media.

26:53The category is just not ready for that yet. As I mentioned to you, it's less than 2 % of total cheese globally. As a matter of fact, averages are anywhere from 1 % to 1.5%, low penetration still. So we need to make sure that we grow as consumer adoption grows and we spend wisely to be targeted in our approach, yet get the biggest bang for our buck, if you will, in terms of touch points that we choose. So what do you find works in terms of these more localized touch points as an insurgent category? I can imagine in-store retail media, TikTok. Like, what are you thinking about? Yeah, you've named the top priorities already.

27:41Making my job easy here. Indeed, we look at store shelf and our customer relationship as effectively our media. That's the starting point. And today in shopper marketing, you could do amazing things. We have a top-notch shopper marketing department as upfield. We are very proud about our customer partnerships and relationships we have as a broader group, as upfield group across our businesses. And of course, Violife benefits from it as well. And as we plan Shopper, we make sure that we are focusing on the right claims. We are focusing on utilizing Shopper also as a targeted media. So it's not just about promotions, but it is also about communication of the relevant message to the right audience.

28:36But beyond that, like you've mentioned, food is a big vertical in social media space. And of course, TikTok. If you ask me, we're still green and early in the TikTok game, but we're stepping it up. And of course, Instagram and other social media channels. But also think of channels like Reddit, where community engagement is very important and where people seek out advice and insight on how to best serve their or meet their food motivations. So that's how we are looking at marketing overall, more grassroots, more shopper centric, and making sure we have integrated plans so our messages are consistent and focus on the right products.

29:26So I want to follow up. The Reddit thing is super interesting. So does that mean you're trying to facilitate conversation there? Or do you just have ads that are on our vegan? Like, how are you looking at Reddit specifically? Yes. So as I've mentioned, we are definitely looking much broader than vegan already. And you've used yourself as an example. There is many more people who are not vegan, nor do they want to be vegan, who are looking for help in simple words, who are looking for help on how to not just choose the right brands or products, but also how to cook with those ingredients. Right.

30:14And plant based products are part of it. And definitely animal free cheese is a big part of it. How do we how do they unleash its best potential in applications? So Reddit is one of those platforms that is community based and conversation based that lends itself perfectly to that type of an engagement. We are early in our platform engagement strategy right now, so I'm sure we'll stay in touch and I will give you news as they come. But it's one of those channels that lends itself perfectly for education and conversation management, community management with the right audience. Got it. Makes sense.

30:59I'm excited to learn more as it comes up. We're running out of time, but I have a million more questions. But first, can you just give a lay of the land of where you are right now in terms of grocery distribution? Like how many stores are you in and where have you been focusing on getting into? Yes, we are actually opening a number of stores as we speak, and we can circle back with the exact number if you're interested. But I think what really matters is that we are in all of the major chains in the U.S. We are also in the regional natural channel. We are using our distributor partners to get to a number of natural stores across the nation, whether those are small local chains or larger regional ones.