Paying It Forward: Episode 523

0:00Meagan Francis: Hi, I'm Megan.

0:01Sarah Powers: And I'm Sarah. We're two moms with eight kids between us and we're the hosts of The Mom Hour. On this show, we're joined by a team of unique mom voices from across the country and in different stages of motherhood to bring you tips, ideas, and encouragement and to help you feel a little less alone.

0:17Meagan Francis: We all know that motherhood is a lot easier when real moms share honest truths and remind each other that it's all going to be okay.

0:24Sarah Powers: We're not experts. We're parents who've been there.

0:26Meagan Francis: We're not perfect. We're real. Welcome to The Mom Hour. Hey, everyone, and welcome to episode 523 of the Mom Hour. I'm Megan Francis here with Sarah Powers. Hi, Sarah.

0:40Sarah Powers: Hi, how are we doing?

0:41Meagan Francis: How are we feeling? So, of course, this is not the last time you and I will ever be on the mic together, but it is the last time that we will have read that opener, that we will say a number.

0:53Sarah Powers: Yeah, it's so in our bodies that it's just automatic, except for all the times that we mess it up.

1:00Meagan Francis: For something that's automatic, we do certainly have a way of screwing it up. But wow, this is the last episode of the Mom Hour that we will ever record. We are recording it one week before it airs. On the same day, we released our new podcast, two episodes of that, Midlife Lady Leisure Pursuits. So it's kind of a big day.

1:26Sarah Powers: It is. And one would think that that was planned. Not exactly. You know, we record our podcasts usually about a week out, but not exactly, give or take. Also, it's the beginning of summer. Yeah, everything's weird. Schedules are all over the place. But it is true that we are recording this episode the same day that we launched a new podcast out into the world. And that new podcast is not at all meant to like, I don't, I personally am not thinking of it as like.

1:55Meagan Francis: A replacement.

1:56Sarah Powers: It's not a replacement. It's not it's we are in such different places in our lives and careers. Ten years later, the podcast industry is in a vastly different place. So while I do hope people will who want to continue to hear our voices will come on over and listen, I almost don't want people to expect like that it's the next mom hour.

2:17Meagan Francis: No, it's not. Our first two episodes, we literally each picked one thing and talked about it for 30 minutes ish. It's not at all the same, but that's We're not the same and it's not the same subject matter. I do think it's funny how we planned it. I mean, we've been talking about doing this new podcast for probably a year, really, you know,

2:36Sarah Powers: nine months. Yeah.

2:38Meagan Francis: And it was one of those like, you know how sometimes when you think you got a big jump on something, you sort of forget to actually do it. So it's like we've been talking about it for so long. We had the name. We knew it was going to happen. We've talked about it on here, but all the little details of putting a podcast up, there's all this startup stuff you have to do. Like you have to record a trailer. You have to do a new intro. You have to pick music. You need new branding. Like all of you have to set up a host. And I think we did it all in the last like five days.

3:06Sarah Powers: Yeah. Which is both like, I think we can pat ourselves on the back because we're experienced creators and experienced podcasters and we can pull it together, but also kind of funny because it's not like we didn't have the time or the knowledge. It just, yeah, It just was not ready till it was ready. And then it was barely ready on time. So do please come have a listen if you want to keep hearing us chat, especially if you like fluffy, inconsequential topics, strong opinions about inconsequential topics. Well, Megan, I know you always like it when I come with numbers and facts. Of course, listeners who heard us say it's this is episode 523, which is not a round number at all to end on.

3:52Sarah Powers: Those 523 episodes are our Tuesdays that represent the last 10 and a quarter years. We turned 10 on March. I think it's 17th, 18th or 19th. I always forget our exact birthday somewhere in there. So 10 and a quarter actual number of episodes that are still available in the archives and will remain available as a reminder. We're not taking those down as of right now is 811. And so I think that means there will be 812 once this one publishes also not a round number at all. And that of course is bigger than 523 because it includes all of the more than mom episodes, the voices, interviews, the bonuses, the random extras, um, the series.

4:37Sarah Powers: And so that takes you up to 812, essentially hours. Let's just call it over 800 hours of our voices that chat GPT can train itself on if it wants to.

4:54Meagan Francis: It's terrifying. Is there a way for us to block that? Because I'm just picturing like a Megan and Sarah bot. I don't know, like 25 years in the future, giving out mom advice. Let's hope that doesn't happen. I don't know. Yeah, that's like, I mean, that means that 523 are the numbered episodes, but there's more than one third more. Yeah. You know what I mean? almost half again.

5:17Sarah Powers: Remember the glory days? Remember, remember when business was cooking and there was a demand both from listeners and advertisers for like two to three episodes per week. I know.

5:28Meagan Francis: Oh my gosh.

5:29Sarah Powers: Yeah. It was, it was fun times in the wild west of podcasting. Um, and we had lots to say, and it's fitting, it's fitting that we've kind of, um, shrunk back down to mostly just a weekly or sometimes a one Friday a month. Um, it's kind of how we started and then ramped way up and um here we are back down the hill slide yeah yep and now we're just it's all

5:52Meagan Francis: downhill from here um well I think that you know we taught we've been talking about how to sort of like what notes to end the show on for a long time and when we started to see that we were running out of time like the number of episodes coming up potentially that we could talk about whatever was dwindling there was sort of a little bit of a feeling of like okay well I kind of wanted to talk about that thing, but not enough accent, you know? And so, um, this topic got pushed to the very last episode on purpose because I think it's such a good note to end on. And that's essentially helping each other.

6:29Sarah Powers: Yeah.

6:30Meagan Francis: This show has helped both of us. We hope that it's helped all of you listening. And we've been hearing really incredible messages from people who tell us how much it has helped them in one way or another. Um, we talked about, we actually did a like pretty deep dive into some of the messages that we got about a month ago, Sarah, I don't remember what the number of the episode was, but I think what we want to talk about now is how you all listening can pay that forward. Yeah.

6:56Sarah Powers: I mean, I don't know that we started out with an intention for this podcast. I think it was much more loosey goosey than that, but if we had, and maybe you did have this intention, I think being a helpful, supportive voice for moms has always been at the core of what we're doing. Yes, we like to chat with each other. Yes, it's been really fun to own a business together and to be part of an industry like podcasting. But at its core, this show should just leave people feeling a little better when the episode ends than they did when they hit play at the beginning. It's like super duper simple. So without this show releasing new episodes, what are we like?

7:39Sarah Powers: What legacy are we leaving and how what does it mean to be helpful to another mom. You don't have to have a platform speaking publicly to thousands and thousands of moms. What are the things we can distill down that, like you said, Megan, that our listeners can pay it forward? If we have helped them, what are the simple ways they can help a mom in their life?

8:00Meagan Francis: Yeah, because we can all do that. I do think we are living in a time where it can feel like your impact is not impactful if it's if you don't have a big Internet following, if you aren't speaking to crowds, if you're not a celebrity, if you're not a politician, if you don't have all the answers,

8:20Sarah Powers: you don't have all the answers. Right.

8:22Meagan Francis: Yeah. But I think what we've learned is that sometimes it really is really small or really person to person things that can make the biggest difference. So I thought it'd be nice to start by talking about some ways that the mom hour has helped us personally, Sarah and myself. And then let's give some of our suggestions for how to help other moms just from, I guess, from watching moms help each other. I think that's given us and, you know, some really good insights into what is, what can make an impact and what can be helpful.

8:55Sarah Powers: Yeah. And sometimes we actually hear direct stories through the Facebook group or through emails of, I mean, you all are so much more creative and innovative and resourceful then either Megan or I would be on our own or even together. I feel like we've benefited from the collective around this idea of what, what does it mean to be supported, to ask for support, to support another mom? Yeah. So we've learned from you, I guess is my point.

9:23Meagan Francis: Yeah, totally. So one way the mom hour has helped me. And again, this isn't something I set out to do when we started it 10 and a quarter years ago. But it definitely is a positive side effect is that it just helped me realize how much my experiences as a mom count to see how much motherhood matters. And I think by the time we started the show, I was already a pretty seasoned mom. Like I'd been doing it for 17 years by that point, but I had not yet had the direct access to so many other moms all at once to kind of mirror back what, like what, um, how important it is. I don't really know else to put it just to, because it helped me see my experiences magnified and multiplied by tens of thousands of, you know, other women, um, and moms that was, that's been big and it's been gradual.

10:27Meagan Francis: Like, I don't know that I, there wasn't a moment where I suddenly said, Hey, motherhood's really important. It was more just like, Oh wow. I knew somewhere that it was, but this is evidence that it really, it really counts. You kind of alluded to this, Sarah, but one other way that it's helped is by showing me just how kind and generous an online community can be. I think you and I have both seen the other side of internet community, not necessarily like directed at us. I don't think we've either one of us have ever been like bullied on the internet or anything, but we've seen it. We've definitely seen how content anybody who has ever read a comment thread.

11:07Sarah Powers: I was going to say, and let's be brutally honest. We've, I don't think we've participated, but we've for sure voyeuristically like gotten sucked into reading mommy wars. Remember when And that was a phrase that was, that was used. Um, and, and that doesn't feel good to consume that kind of really toxic yuckiness. Yeah. Yeah.

11:27Meagan Francis: Yeah. So I think one thing that was, I think when we started the Facebook group and honestly, how long is the Facebook group in around now? Like almost as long six or seven years.

11:40Sarah Powers: It felt like we did. Oh, you know, when we did it is we did it when we launched Patreon because at the very beginning, it was going to be a paid, um, like a premium service for our Patreon. And then we killed Patreon after a year or so as an experiment as happens when you're building a business. Um, so whenever that was 2018, so probably like seven of the 10 years.

12:01Meagan Francis: So I remember there was a moment where we were going to make it public. Cause that, that actually tracks and we were both like, Oh my gosh, do we really want to deal with this? Like, do we want to deal with a public Facebook group? And you all just are the best. seriously. Um, we've had so few problems that it's not even worth mentioning. It's just like, it's been overwhelmingly positive. And, um, by the way, we do believe that that Facebook group will continue to live on in some, in some fashion. We haven't decided exactly how yet, but if you're in there and wondering what's going to happen to it, don't worry.

12:33Meagan Francis: It won't disappear July 1st or anything like that. So no, don't stress, don't stress. Um, Okay, so that has been a lovely way that the Mom Hour community has helped me just by being awesome and showing me that it's possible, right? I would say that the Mom Hour, I put literally question mark because I am not actually being literal here, but what is it when it's not figurative and it's not literal, but it's like, it's for real though.

12:59Sarah Powers: Truly. Truly, truly. Verily.

13:02Meagan Francis: Yeah, verily.

13:04Sarah Powers: Fundamentally.

13:06Meagan Francis: I really saved my life when I was going through my divorce, which I often forget how soon into the mom hour that happened. It was less than well, it was a little more than a year old when it all started.

13:19Sarah Powers: I remember asking you that we'd gotten a lot of requests from listeners to do an episode about marriage.

13:26Meagan Francis: And, you know, you and I were good friends, but we weren't intimately close, like sharing super hard stuff all the time.

13:32Sarah Powers: And you just said very honestly, and I appreciated it so much at the time. You just said, my marriage is not in a place where I'm prepared to record a podcast episode, giving marriage advice.

13:42Meagan Francis: And I was like, okay, that's fair.

13:43Sarah Powers: And we moved on and then, yeah. So that's my earliest memory. And it was very early in the podcast. Yeah.

13:49Meagan Francis: Very, very early. I think the episode where I talked about getting a divorce, us. It was less than a hundred. I don't remember the exact or one of four. I don't know why I

13:58Sarah Powers: remember that, but yes. Yeah.

14:00Meagan Francis: Okay. That you're right. So very close to it. Yeah. So we were not that far in. And by that point it was kind of old news.

14:06Sarah Powers: Like the time I actually talked about it

14:07Meagan Francis: because I wanted to wait until I could, I don't know, process it or at least speak about it. So anyway, my point is showing up for this podcast, um, my relationship with you, my, our partnership, just having to show up for this podcast, like daily, weekly, however it looked then when my life was insane, it was lifesaving. Yeah. So that helped me a whole bunch. And then this is one that I'm not sure exactly how to like phrase this without it making it sound like I'm performing because that's not what I think it is. But getting on a microphone at least once a week and talking about parenting means that I'm my, I'm my own voice of conscience.

14:56Sarah Powers: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think I do. Yeah. It has helped me be a better parent,

15:02Meagan Francis: not because I, not because I want to be a better parent so that I can get on and talk about what a great parent I am. That's not what I mean. It's more like talking about parenting has helped orient me to what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and the choices that I'm making. It's like, oh there's my north star and this helps me stay tuned to it yeah yeah I love that so that's been very helpful too through some really hard stuff yeah in many different ways so there you go okay

15:31Sarah Powers: well um I am going to get emotional in this episode I'm just saying it at the outset I got

15:38Meagan Francis: emotional before we I even finished saying the intro so well I didn't write out the ways that

15:45Sarah Powers: the mom hour has helped me in this part of our outline. And I'm sure we've told people this, but we use a Google doc and sometimes it has some very loose outlines. Sometimes we actually do write quite a bit if we want to remember what we were going to say. And I just wrote, say some stuff, I think because I want to speak off the cuff here. And also I was getting emotional

16:02Meagan Francis: thinking about writing it down, but, um, starting with this podcast gave me, gave a shape to a

16:11Sarah Powers: career. And I was pretty confused about how much work and what kind of work was going to match up with my home and family dynamic. My husband's career was also changing shape and we moved a couple of times. And I honestly don't know what the sliding doors different career path would have been for Sarah without the mom hour. I would have figured it out. But this podcast from the very beginning, it gave me creative energy and purpose. And then as it grew, it really gave me an identity as an entrepreneur. And I've shared this before, but that was not something I thought was part of who I am. And I always credit you a ton with that because just drafting off of your entrepreneurial energy has taught me more in 10 years about what I'm good at, what I like, what I don't like.

17:07Sarah Powers: And, and I can just, I can picture a version of me that's maybe six or seven years ago, kind of like, I felt really proud of having work that mattered to me work. That was flexible work. I could do when I dropped my preschooler in the gym daycare for an hour, but still was like able to sit in the car line and like this weird juggling kind of like hybrid, not quite full-time, but almost full-time traveling, going to conferences, like that identity piece. And, and you could argue that some of it's like just about the trappings. Like we talked about recently when we talked about writing, how there's like the trappings of

17:42Meagan Francis: writing, like some of it was, I got to have a conference wardrobe and I got to get on a plane

17:46Sarah Powers: and escape my little kids to go, um, listen to other women talk. And like, that just was a deeply meaningful part of my identity and speak yourself.

17:58Meagan Francis: I mean, yeah, multiple times, like it in front of colleagues. Like that is, it is an identity, you know, builder.

18:05Sarah Powers: Yeah. And I think because I was newer, I was, I was not as far along in motherhood or career as you. So I hadn't really dabbled. I had worked in, in the corporate world and I had been a stay at home mom for like a hot minute, but I hadn't dabbled in other ways to make all that fit together. And I just see this as like an enormous gift of like, I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't change a thing about the amount that I got to work, the type of work that I did, the money we made when the money was good. Like I just feel really proud of that. And I, I see how important that was for my identity as a mom, if that makes sense.

18:44Meagan Francis: So that is really does.

18:46Sarah Powers: Well, you talked about like your, this community and your divorce. I will say that when I shared something very personal about one of my kids a few years ago in 2022. Um, we got like a teeny bit of, I would say messages that were not coming from a place of love or iTunes reviews that were not coming from a place of love and acceptance. And you quickly squashed those and made them go away. Um, for which I will be forever grateful. And then we got just an enormous outpouring of love and support. Sorry.

19:22Sarah Powers: For my family. At a time when not everyone, even in my real life, was able to offer that yet or at all. We heard from some of you who are child psychologists or school counselors or teachers who just said, like, you're doing a good job. And I don't know if I even wrote back to some of those, but, um, that was a really intense time and you all helped whether you know it or not, whether you sent me an email or not. Um, even if you just kept listening and we're like, all right, cool. Moving on, which was what so many people did. And I've talked about that before that, that in its own way was very loving and affirming.

20:08Sarah Powers: um so yeah that um to be in a public have a public podcast in going through a divorce or like a big life change a family change is a little scary and I don't think Megan I don't think there's a better community out there um to have held us through those things I am really grateful to this community

20:33Meagan Francis: for that because I was just that whole time and we, you know, and it wasn't even like a big, you know, Sarah breaks her silence and nothing like that. It was just kind of an offhand, like, this is the reality now I'm moving on. And there was a part of me that had every hackle in my body up, like waiting for someone to, you know, F around and find out. And it was so small, Like that pushback, if you even want to call it that, whatever it was, was so small and so like easily squashed. Yeah. Because it was like so inconsequential that I was just really grateful. Like you said, I was really grateful to the community for treating you right and your family.

21:19Meagan Francis: Like it made me very proud of you all listeners. So. Yeah.

21:25Sarah Powers: I have one more really sort of practical way. you talked about getting on the mic weekly, sort of challenging you to speak, to put words around the type of parent you want to be. I would actually add to that and say, it's just made me more articulate, period. Just to be, I think we started out probably decent on the mic. Like we both like to talk and we know a lot of words. And we know words.

21:53Meagan Francis: I actually can feel sometimes when

21:56Sarah Powers: I'm forming thoughts without a lot of or stumbling. And of course, we still do that. We're humans. But I actually think there's a real training we've gone through without being super public radio about it. But we can we can articulate a thought with a beginning, middle and end and put an end to the sentence and move on. And that's that's like an actual skill. Turns out not every I don't think everybody can do that. And sometimes I forget that.

22:23Meagan Francis: well and we didn't know how to do it all of it till not that long ago I mean now we do know how to end this you know end a thought and then just be done and that skill we didn't learn till 2019 so yeah um I also have I am going to be recording a um audio book of my book and knowing that I can sit and talk for as long as you and I have talked makes it a little less terrifying like I just think it's gonna be okay it's gonna be okay yeah you've got

22:53Sarah Powers: great. You're excellent at articulation and enunciation and saying words. It is funny that we do it so much that I think sometimes I forget every once in a while, someone who doesn't know me will say something like, wow, that was really well said. And I think, oh, right. Cause I do this for a living. And not that I don't say that like, well, thank you. I'm a podcaster. But in my mind, I kind of think, oh, right. Like I have a lot more practice than many people at, um, at, at talking, at saying the words.

23:27Meagan Francis: Well, Sarah, we, um, both got a little emotional talking about the ways this show has helped us. We mentioned at the very top of the show, some ways we hope we've, you know, we've been helpful through this podcast by, I think you said, we hope that you just have felt better at the end of the episode than you were at the beginning. The other thing we've heard so much from so many of you is that you have felt less alone.

23:54Sarah Powers: Yeah.

23:55Meagan Francis: And that's huge, too.

23:57Sarah Powers: I think that and that's kind of like I hear that in two different buckets, less alone in what you're going through. In other words, if we complain that we don't like parades or pushing kids on the swings, either you feel less alone. You're not the only one who's had that,

24:10Meagan Francis: you know, that terrible thought, quote unquote, but also less alone sometimes just because you

24:16Sarah Powers: haven't found your friends yet. And we hear from people who just put us in your AirPods and walk around and we're your friends. And so it's like it's kind of cool because you're less alone in what you're going through. And then you're literally not alone because we're we're talking at you.

24:30Meagan Francis: We're talking at you. Yes. Well, we've compiled a few ways that we think those of you listening can help other moms. And I think some of them fall kind of into the, one of those categories, like help you feel better, show you that you're not alone. I mean, those are kind of the themes we've been circling around for a long time. These might be simple things. These might be bigger things. And really the first one that came to mind for me, because this is something that has meant a lot to me over the years when this happens to me is when I, when I have been parenting in public, especially if I've been struggling, um, perhaps there's a screaming child, perhaps there's a really stressful looking situation.

25:13Meagan Francis: It has been incredibly helpful to me to be complimented or even acknowledged. You know, I think sometimes people do that polite ignoring thing. Yeah. Look away, look away. Don't, you know, don't make the person feel self-conscious. And I appreciate that. I I think sometimes there is a time and a place for that. But like there is something about just lacking eyes with another mom and getting a nod, a smile, like a well-meaning smile, a compliment, you know, just feeling seen, I think is huge and it's free and you can do it all day long. Like you can do it everywhere you go. Like you can build that habit of just seeing people and like being with them where they are, especially other moms.

26:01Sarah Powers: Yeah, I agree. And I would say that doesn't necessarily stop the need for that or the helpfulness of that doesn't stop in the crying child in the Target checkout line. Um, you can be 10 years into motherhood and if you're having a rough day, someone telling you you're doing a good job or just saying like that they like your shoes or that your kids are cute, whatever, like whatever you have to offer.

26:31Meagan Francis: Yeah.

26:31Sarah Powers: I don't think the need, uh, goes away. And we, we often sort of paint the classic picture of the, the harried mom in the supermarket checkout. But I think it's, uh, more broadly applicable than that even. Yeah. Well, this one feels weird because we're talking about how to help another mom, but I'm actually going to suggest that sharing your own hard stuff, and I don't mean to a stranger in the checkout line necessarily, but to a newer friend, a newer mom friend, someone you're building closeness with. We've talked a lot about friendship in the last couple of years, especially. But when you share what's true and what's hard for you, it gives other people permission to do the same.

27:16Sarah Powers: And it also starts to chip away at this thing we all do, even if we don't mean to, of putting out the most, the shiniest, most perfect version. And somebody's got to go first. Somebody's got somebody's got to say, actually, it's not shiny. Actually, we're really struggling. Actually, I'm super worried about this kid who, yes, maybe they look well-behaved and their dress is super cute today, but this is what I'm worried about. This is a kind of know your audience and know what's right for you. I don't think it's – I'm not saying to bare your soul to everybody all the time, but I think we benefit and our communities benefit and our friendships benefit when we can be honest about what's hard.

28:03Sarah Powers: And the other related to that is asking for help and support. Or if you share a hard thing and someone says, what can I do? Can I help you? Letting someone bring you the proverbial casserole or letting someone pick up the slack so that you can take a nap, allowing people in in that way once you have shared what's hard is actually a gift you're giving to the broader community. So it sounds maybe counterintuitive or backward, but I think this is how we of how we stop having these like fake perfect fronts up all the time as moms.

28:41Meagan Francis: Yeah, I think we've said on the show before that asking for help gives other people permission to ask for help.

28:47Sarah Powers: It also gives them purpose. It gives it allows them to feel an important part of something. It's really, really a beautiful thing on both sides.

28:57Meagan Francis: Yeah, it's important. Oh, good one. Okay. This one is little and very practical. And I think of this as like a tiny act of service. So this might be, okay. You know how when you get to a door and you're calculating, like, should I hold this door?

29:17Sarah Powers: Or is it weird if I hold this door? Is it too long? If I hold it, will I ever be able to stop holding it? Right.

29:26Meagan Francis: If it if it is a mom with a small child or a stroller, I will hold the door. I will stand there and watch her approach from 500 yards away. I don't care because I know what it's like to try to get through that door that's going to swing shut too fast. And you're going to have the stroller halfway through and your bag is going to get stuck. You know, whatever. There's

29:49Sarah Powers: like another kid follow, like a free floating kid who's old enough to walk, but like not old enough to manage doors. Yeah.

29:56Meagan Francis: Especially if there's two doors, you know, sometimes there's like an interior and an exterior door. I have gone so far before as to run ahead, like prop a door open and go back and open the other one. Because what does it cost me? Nothing. My hands are free, you know, and not everybody's in that position. Maybe you're the one with the stroller and you're like, I can't, I can't even hold it for myself. So there's something else that you can do. But I just think we can get weird with it when it comes to offering little acts of service like, hey, can I put those books in the library book drop for you?

30:31Meagan Francis: Because otherwise she'd have to get out of the car. Like, why would she want to do that? Whatever it is. Returning a grocery cart. If you see somebody turning grocery cart done with their groceries, getting the little

30:40Sarah Powers: kids into the car, but their cart is empty or maybe almost empty. Yep. Yeah. That's a huge.

30:45Meagan Francis: it's a small but huge holding a good parking spot um instead of taking it I've also done things where I was gonna back out of my parking spot and I know the person who wants it I can just see it's a minivan or something and I I'll like hold it for them because I want them to have it you know so there's there's other there's so many of these little things you can do when you just orient yourself to going around like going through the world like that and the way I look at the time of life I'm in, like I got nothing but time. I'm trying to get in my steps anyway. So like, what do I care? I'm there.

31:22Meagan Francis: There's nothing I'm in a hurry for.

31:24Sarah Powers: Yeah.

31:24Meagan Francis: Go ahead of me. You go ahead of me. I'll stand here and look at the candy and I don't even care. So I think sometimes it takes a little bit of rewiring to, well, first of all, if you're, if you still have young kids, maybe you're not there and that's okay. Like if you're not in the place to offer that kind of support, great. Or if you're just coming out of that stage, you almost have to retrain yourself. And it took me a while. Like I've talked about that muscle memory. Um, it did take me a while to just remind myself like, Oh, I, I really, I'm not in a hurry. There's really no place I have to be.

31:59Meagan Francis: Um, I see really old people sometimes walking around my local grocery store and they look like Like they're just, they are just there.

32:07Sarah Powers: Yeah.

32:08Meagan Francis: And I'm like, what? Okay. Why can't I just be here? Yeah. Where do I have to go? That's so important. You know, why can't I just walk really, really, really slow and stop and talk to every third person? I could do that too. So anyway, this, I think is one of those stages of life things, not just stage of parenthood things. And I'm grateful to be in a stage right now where I can be abundant with those acts of service. But I would also argue that anybody at any time can do some of it.

32:39Sarah Powers: Yeah.

32:39Meagan Francis: And it feels really good.

32:40Sarah Powers: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You're inspiring me to just want to pay attention even more to the small ways. I love that. So this is kind of jumping off of when you said to see somebody in public or just to acknowledge them. But I'm going to offer an alternative, especially for fellow moms of older kids and teens. And I've experienced this on both sides. And that is just to be really generous about complimenting other people's kids, not necessarily in the moment, because that's embarrassing for everyone involved, especially with tweens and teens. But if I if I know a fellow mom would if it would brighten her day to hear that her son was really polite to me or that like he's getting so I can't believe, you know, he's grown up so much and he was so helpful to the younger kids, whatever.

33:32Sarah Powers: I try to be really generous and really specific with things I notice about especially awkwardly growing tweens and teens. Because let me tell you, when you are parenting those people, you can go months, months at a time where it's hard to see those things.

33:50Meagan Francis: Imagine what someone would say.

33:52Sarah Powers: Exactly. Because kids necessarily bring their worst to the home and relationships. Right. That's what they're supposed to do. They're they're differentiating. they're also trying their best out in the world so they unload it all at home um and I've had the experience where I think I talked about this recently where someone was able to compliment my kid in a way that I wasn't seeing on the regular and it was really impactful and I have done that to others too I've just reached out and said like one time I had witnessed a really really sweet gesture of like a 15 year old boy being helpful to like a couple of 12 year olds and I texted the parents.

34:29Sarah Powers: And I was like, I just want you to know that kid is a standup kid and you should know that he's he's representing your family. Well, I don't think I said it that way, but that doesn't take it again. It starts with noticing and then it's a little vulnerable to reach out to people and say stuff like that. But if it's true, if you really did see something that you appreciate about somebody else's kid, tell them, text them or tell them the next time you see them.

34:56Meagan Francis: Guarantee they will, they will like hearing it. You know what I mean? Like I promise they will. And maybe they're

35:00Sarah Powers: even having trouble. Like I said, seeing the best in their own kid in that stage of life.

35:06Meagan Francis: I love that. I'm thinking back to like a handful of times that, that I can remember somebody having done that for me and my kids and just telling me what they appreciate about them. And it feels so good. It's also the kind of thing that happens less and less as they get older,

35:25Sarah Powers: I think 100%, which is why I kind of my mind is on the older kids and teens like elementary school.

35:32Meagan Francis: You have conferences and they're all about how amazing your kids are.

35:35Sarah Powers: You get to go in here at least once a semester. Yeah. The very best of what somebody sees in your kids. And that fades away to a large degree. And you're kind of wondering, like, how is this all going to turn out? Does anybody see the best? Yeah.

35:50Meagan Francis: I will never forget how deflating it was the first time I went to a middle school, um, conference and realized how different they are, you know, and was like, oh, so this isn't just, oh, see, I thought it was going to be 15 minutes of us talking about how awesome my kid is, but it turns out, no, you're just showing me the grade book. Okay. So very different. Not that, you know, this teacher's Karen, but they have six times as many kids. Yeah.

36:14Sarah Powers: Yeah.

36:14Meagan Francis: They don't have, And it's not there in that, um, in that three minute window. That's not what they're there to do. They're there to share if there's anything going on, that's a problem or whatever. I'm sure there's some schools that are different, but that was my experience. And I remember being like, oh, what a very, what a very disappointing experience this was. So yeah. Uh, okay. So this is one that I think it may never get back to the mom. Um, but it's helpful to all of us. And that is to stand up for other moms when they are being criticized unfairly or even fairly. Yeah. So like any any chance you have to come to the defense of another mom who's doing her best.

37:02Meagan Francis: Yeah. Take it when you can.

37:04Sarah Powers: Can I just add also sometimes I think people get away with mean comments by just grouping a whole group of moms together.

37:12Meagan Francis: like those attachment parents or those private school parents or those that such and such.

37:18Sarah Powers: And I think that's a slippery slope to criticize it. I mean, that's just generalizing, right. And stereotyping. And I think some, somehow people feel a little less, um, guarded when, uh, painting with a broad brush and maybe they aren't the type to malign an individual mom, but people can get pretty mean in their generalizations too, I think.

37:41Meagan Francis: Yeah, that's a really good point because that does make it feel like it's not, you know, it's not pointing fingers at a specific person, but more like a movement, right? You know, and, and I mean, I guess there is some validity to having opinions about a specific practice or, you know, a cult, I guess, but like, I, I don't think that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about that meanness that can be hidden. Um, oh my gosh, yesterday I was, how did I find this? I was looking for something really specific. I don't remember. I was not looking for a slam site.

38:21Sarah Powers: You weren't looking for a fight.

38:24Meagan Francis: No, but I Googled something and somehow one of the top responses that came up was a Reddit thread that was like, you know, hashtag or whatever it is. Um, parenting snark or something. And I don't even, I remember why I clicked it. Oh, I know because it was my name. Somehow my name, I never found my name in there, but it was somewhere in, it was buried in this long threaded thing. I think I was looking for like a blog post I wrote a long time ago anyways. So I just clicked in out of like that kind of curiosity where you're like, don't read it.

38:54Sarah Powers: Yeah. Like don't click it.

39:00Meagan Francis: Don't very confused about the group dynamics at play. Let's just say that because there was a lot of like, I'm just concerned for the children, um, sort of like a tone. Okay. You know what I mean? And maybe there's some valid reasons to be concerned for someone's child.

39:17Sarah Powers: If they're

39:17Meagan Francis: being posted about on the internet in a certain way or whatever, that's, I think that's a valid concern, but then going and posting about it in an anonymous forum does not seem to me to be a productive way to manage that concern. So like, it just gave me such an ick feeling. And I just thought this is helping absolutely nobody. This isn't helping. It might feel like you're venting and it's making you feel better about yourself as a mom. I don't think it is. I don't think it's helping you. And it's for sure not helping the children of the parents that are being snarked about, nor is it helping those parents.

39:52So I don't even really remember where I was going with this.

39:57Meagan Francis: It was just a funny thing that happened that I just thought of while we were talking. But I think that we can come to the defense of other people. That's what I was talking about. It's just it doesn't have to be like, how dare you say something terrible about such and such? Because it's not like neither of us ever gossip.

40:12Sarah Powers: Yeah.

40:12Meagan Francis: You know, we are human beings. But I have had situations before where I found myself getting carried away in a group setting by some crap talking. Yeah. And someone else has said, gosh, you know, I really feel for I really feel for someone in that position.

40:28Sarah Powers: Blah, blah, blah.

40:29Meagan Francis: And that is a good way to make me shut up. Yeah. And rethink my choices, you know, and not not shaming me and not calling me out.

40:38Sarah Powers: Yeah, it's not it's not like arguing the other side or playing devil's advocate. It's just sort of like saying, yeah, this is tough. This is tough.

40:46Meagan Francis: Yeah. And wouldn't we all want that? Like, wouldn't we all want to create. Yeah. an environment or an atmosphere where people would be generous to us in that way. Yeah, I think we would. That's how we help each other that way. Yeah.

41:05Sarah Powers: My last one is just a reminder that we all have the opportunity and the privilege to vote for candidates and support causes that make mom's lives better and how you decide what those candidates and causes are is up to you. That's the beauty of it. But I would say I feel especially motivated to look at ways that maybe marginalized voices or moms who are not in a position of privilege, who are the candidates and what are the causes that are looking out for those people? Well, this can be as small as like a neighborhood association. I was going to say a city council. It can be even smaller. It can be smaller than a school board.

41:56Sarah Powers: It can be a committee on the school board. And of course, it can be as big as national causes and organizations and national political candidates. It doesn't have to be all of it. You don't have to know all the answers. You don't even have to know exactly what you believe. but remember that it does, you do have power as an individual in your community and in wherever you live, you live in the United States or live in a different country. Um, and so I just want to remind everybody that that is another way to look out for fellow moms, especially those, uh, who maybe have fewer people looking out for them and that there are ways to use your voice in that regard.

42:36Meagan Francis: I love that. And I actually would make the, um, I'm not going to say argument. that's not the right word, but I would actually even say that sometimes the smaller, the better. I think we get, there's so much noise happening on the national level and it is hard sometimes to figure out besides just casting your vote, how to slot yourself in. But I bet right now, there is something happening in your community that if you put yourself in the shoes of, let's say it's a playground with rusty old equipment and it's the only one within walking distance of neighborhoods where those people need that access to outdoor spaces.

43:17Meagan Francis: Is there a way to make that better? Yeah. Um, when I think back to when I was a really young mom and a very poor and very at the time, um, not at all represented young mom, what were the things that made a really big difference to me at that point? It would have been things like, is there a, is there a park within walking distance of my apartment building. It would have been things like, is there decent transportation so I can get to the grocery store if my car is not working? Because it often was not. Is there a program at my community college that would support me taking some classes when I've got little kids and I don't have any childcare for them?

43:59Meagan Francis: Like things like that.

44:00Sarah Powers: It can be public libraries. 20 degrees below zero.

44:04Meagan Francis: Yeah. Yes. Sometimes it's really a small, small, small thing that can make a big, big, big, big, big difference. So we have in our neighborhood too, or in our community, I guess I would say like these bought their, they're kind of like a food pantry, but anybody can put stuff in.

44:23Sarah Powers: Yeah. And so it's not like a library of food, kind of stuff and food and things like that.

44:30Meagan Francis: I think, gosh, that's genius because it just took one person to decide that was something that was important to them. Like one, maybe a, maybe a group of neighbors put that together. It doesn't, they don't have to have nonprofit status. They don't have to go jump through a whole bunch of bureaucratic hoops to get this going. Um, but that is a resource for someone.

44:51Sarah Powers: Yeah.

44:51Meagan Francis: It just, it's inspiring to see sometimes how grassroots stuff can really get.

44:56Sarah Powers: Yeah.

44:57Meagan Francis: Well, we do have one last way that we think that the people

45:01Sarah Powers: listening can help other moms help each other. And that's just to keep sharing the mom hour.

45:08Meagan Francis: the archives aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. So, um, chances are very good. If there's something a friend is struggling with or someone in your online mom group or whatever, there is an episode of the mom hour where we have addressed it. And if you value and have found helpful, the things that we've said over the years, then maybe they will too.

45:30Sarah Powers: Yeah. And I will also say it's, it's really fun when there's a, um, mom in a friend group or a woman in a friend group who's just like that friend who always has a good podcast episode or a good article for everything. I have a friend who's like, oh, I have a great book recommendation about that. Or I have a great I'm going to send you this book. So be that if you are I mean, many of our listeners are avid podcast listeners. That's why you found us. So if you're that person, don't be shy. I have felt shy sometimes about like, oh, I don't know

45:58Meagan Francis: if they'll like this or but like you probably have a lot of great resources to share, not just

46:03Sarah Powers: the mom hour. Maybe it's an article or a social media post, but like use that. That's a trove of knowledge that you've amassed by being a consumer of this kind of hopefully helpful and uplifting content. Not everybody's clued in.

46:19Meagan Francis: I still run across people who aren't just they don't really

46:22Sarah Powers: listen to podcasts or they just don't consume this type of media. And that's totally fine. But you might make their day with especially like you said, Megan, with a particular challenge or a particular interview or topic where it's like, I got you. Like I'm, I, you know, I'm the librarian,

46:39Meagan Francis: be the connector of information.

46:41Sarah Powers: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I always feel good when I can do that for somebody as well. Yeah.

46:46Meagan Francis: Well, Sarah, I thought that we could wrap this final episode of the mom hour up just by talking about ways that the listeners can help us if we have any ideas, or anything that we're hoping that anything that would be helpful to us, I guess. I'll start because this is the thing that there's not a very specific ask, but I guess I would just say that, remember, we're still here. Like we're still out here making stuff. That's what we are. We are writers. We are content creators at heart. We've been writers for a very long time before we were podcasters and we're not going anywhere. We're going to be around in some form for a while.

47:29Meagan Francis: And I know sometimes I, in the past, I'm not going to use the word guilty because that makes it sound like it's wrong, but I have had a thing sometimes where I will follow a specific creator when they are serving a very specific need. And then once they're not doing that anymore, or I don't have that need anymore, I just kind of forget to catch up with them. And then later, maybe five years later, they wind up on my radar again. And I'm like, wow, where have you been?

47:57Sarah Powers: It's like an old parasocial friend. Yes.

47:59Meagan Francis: And it's kind of like my object permanence sometimes can be challenged. It's like because I don't need them right now. They are just suspended out there and, you know, in some goo. And I forget that actually they are continuing to do what they're doing. Like I don't have to reanimate them by finding them. They exist. They're still making stuff. stuff and I guess I would just hope that people remember that we're still out here making stuff it means a lot that people have already followed us to midlife lady leisure pursuits to my sub stack to your sub stack and I just hope that now that maybe a little less of your time will be used up by the mom hour that more people will come find us and stay in touch yeah I love that um I mean

48:47Sarah Powers: this is so silly, but the first thing that came to mind is just to, to represent this experience well and proudly. Like if you think of yourself as a member of this community, you're probably already doing all the things we just talked about, you know, paying it forward to other moms. Like I think we, there's thousands of people we've never met, Megan, many of whom have never even emailed us or been in the Facebook group. Like we literally don't know your name, your social handle. And I would it's not going to help us directly, but it would help me to know that you carry this experience forward and pay it forward and kind of spread helpful, uplifting energy accordingly.

49:32Sarah Powers: Yeah, truly. I can sleep well at night knowing that.

49:37Meagan Francis: Does that even make sense? yeah no it does and I think it's the kind of thing where just like we haven't been able to actually see you all out there pushing the stroller with us in your ears or rocking a newborn in the middle of the night with us in your ears or whatever we haven't seen that we haven't been there to see that but like knowing you're knowing that's been happening yeah I think since we started to get that feedback years ago it did change the way I felt about the work that you and I were doing. Um, and this is like another example of that, like knowing that it's continuing on and it's continuing to be paid forward.

50:13Meagan Francis: Um, I will say one more thing about our new podcast, midlife lady leisure pursuits. It's not going to be for everyone. If you're looking for mom content, you will definitely not find that there. If you want a deep dive on candles and avocados. It may be. So if it is your thing, if it's for you, I would love for you to keep in mind that we're starting from scratch. We don't have a listenership there yet. We don't have any reviews or ratings as of when we're recording this. By the time this goes live, we might, but like we're brand new. We're starting over. We're a different ad model than we did.

50:55Sarah Powers: This is so shallow, but I'm just going to say it anyway, like shallow, shallow thought that I had. But I do think we're going to get some reviews that are like, eh, not as good as the mom hour. You know what I mean? I agree.

51:06Meagan Francis: Like we're just, those are going to happen. And that's, that's fine.

51:10Sarah Powers: Because also, first of all, you're entitled to that opinion. It isn't the mom hour. And it's also okay if it's not as good as the mom hour. It's more just, it makes me cringe to think that there's a type of person that that's, that will be motivating to them to leave that as their only review of the show, you know, which is so funny. So maybe, maybe if people want to help us out and you do enjoy it, maybe just be a voice that doesn't, that doesn't do that.

51:34Meagan Francis: And then, or even just have an open mind.

51:36Sarah Powers: Like it's not, it's not trying to be the mom hour.

51:39Meagan Francis: So it's something different. It's something new. It's something just for you and me. And that's what I think is so exciting about it. Like it's really, I'm not going to say selfish. Cause I don't, if we wanted to be selfish, we would just talk to ourselves on Voxer. But like, it's just more like we've spent a lot of time creating content that we think other people want to hear. And now we're like, let's just create content we want to create and see what people think. Yeah.

52:05Sarah Powers: And thankfully, being in midlife, I think we have a little bit more evolved sense of self that we can handle those reviews and probably just not even read them. Yep.

52:16Meagan Francis: Well, goodness, we didn't write anything at the end. Usually at the very last like little block, we'd have a wrap up message and it would say things like next week we're talking about X, Y and Z or what's leave us a rating, a review, whatever. We're not going to do that because this is it.

52:33Sarah Powers: Thank you for listening, everybody. Whether you've listened for one episode

52:38Meagan Francis: or 812 or more likely somewhere in the middle. I'm just so grateful to have had this experience with you, Megan, and with all of you listening. So that's it from me. Me too. Thank you all. I love you, Sarah. I love this community. And we will see you where we see you.

53:00Sarah Powers: We'll see you all soon. Bye. Thanks for listening to The Mom Hour. Everything we talked about in today's episode is available at themomhour.com. And hey, while you're there, you can find more than 500 podcast episodes, plus articles, playlists, and resources about motherhood and parenting at every stage.

53:17Meagan Francis: And if you liked today's episode, we'd love it if you would take a minute to share the show with another mom in your life. You can also find us on Instagram at themomhour, chatting and interacting with listeners between episodes.

53:29Sarah Powers: Thanks for being here, friends. We'll talk to you soon.

53:34Thank you.